The cut on the full size mag is a little higher than the compact mag. It’s causing an over insertion issue where the round on the top of the mag is pushing up on the ejector causing the gun to lock up.
Another criticism some other reviewers have mentioned with the Echelon 4.0C is the fully ambi mag release system causing inadvertent mag release when carried. Do you think this is a problem? Is the release button tension too low? I much prefer pistols with firm to high effort mag release buttons. The ambi paddle system on my PPQ M1 solves this. With a weak mag release button, a carry pistol can become a single shot gun very easily. Whereas needing a tactical reload in a self-defense scenario is extremely rare.
We haven't run into that problem yet. We have not carried the pistol in a holster yet to see if this is an issue. This is also the first we are hearing of this. The mag release seems to be strong. But If this is a problem it is a big deal.
When you say you need a death grip to shoot accurately, could it be too much trigger overtravel? On my old original XD 9 and 45 pistols, I had to correct excess overtravel with small rubber bumpers superglued to the frame behind the trigger. This totally improved accuracy issues.
@fullyloadedreviews It certainly sounds like overtravel could be the problem since the Echelon has good trigger weight, take up, smooth travel, and clean release. But overtravel is a more subtle quality that is very rarely described in gun reviews but is in my experience an even bigger factor in pistol target shooting accuracy. A "death grip" can mitigate poor accuracy due to excess overtravel because the gun moves less during the micro second between trigger release and ignition. With a more casual grip, the gun will flinch off target. With my old XD's I found the right thickness sheet rubber material that would eliminate overtravel yet still allow dry fire. I then superglued a small disc of this material on the frame behind the trigger. It has never fallen off. If it did, it would drop away and not jam the gun internals. The XD's (and a Beretta 87 with overtravel) transformed to being inaccurate to highly accurate. And yes, I use a firm grip when shooting pistols, but a "death grip" is hard to maintain consistently, results in inconsistent muscle engagement, and can cause its own inaccuracy issues.
They are about the same when it comes to shootability. But when it comes to concealment this is just a bit smaller and easier. Think of it like a Glock 17 vs 19
TOOL GUY AND GUN GUY you have guns that are cheap and Cordless tools that are great Harbor freight makes some Better tools then some of the stuff that HOME DEPOT sells But with a gun I Usually like my guns to be Up there with Milwaukee Tools not with the Crap that CO$T $200 vs a gun that COST $800
That was a great review guys
Thanks Buddy!
You are pushing the full size mag to far up blocking the action. This has been discussed on a few other videos.
The cut on the full size mag is a little higher than the compact mag. It’s causing an over insertion issue where the round on the top of the mag is pushing up on the ejector causing the gun to lock up.
Super excited to see a compact version of this gun.
So are we.
Great video this looks amazing!
It was!
Another solid review. Love the EDC spin and neon lighting. Very Electric Daisy!
Thanks for watching. I we try our best lol
echelon is a fucking very good gun AWESOME!!!!!
Couldn't agree more
About time they came out with a compact version.
And it's really good.
Another criticism some other reviewers have mentioned with the Echelon 4.0C is the fully ambi mag release system causing inadvertent mag release when carried. Do you think this is a problem? Is the release button tension too low? I much prefer pistols with firm to high effort mag release buttons. The ambi paddle system on my PPQ M1 solves this. With a weak mag release button, a carry pistol can become a single shot gun very easily. Whereas needing a tactical reload in a self-defense scenario is extremely rare.
We haven't run into that problem yet. We have not carried the pistol in a holster yet to see if this is an issue. This is also the first we are hearing of this. The mag release seems to be strong. But If this is a problem it is a big deal.
When you say you need a death grip to shoot accurately, could it be too much trigger overtravel? On my old original XD 9 and 45 pistols, I had to correct excess overtravel with small rubber bumpers superglued to the frame behind the trigger. This totally improved accuracy issues.
I don’t think it is. But it is something we can look into.
@fullyloadedreviews It certainly sounds like overtravel could be the problem since the Echelon has good trigger weight, take up, smooth travel, and clean release. But overtravel is a more subtle quality that is very rarely described in gun reviews but is in my experience an even bigger factor in pistol target shooting accuracy. A "death grip" can mitigate poor accuracy due to excess overtravel because the gun moves less during the micro second between trigger release and ignition. With a more casual grip, the gun will flinch off target. With my old XD's I found the right thickness sheet rubber material that would eliminate overtravel yet still allow dry fire. I then superglued a small disc of this material on the frame behind the trigger. It has never fallen off. If it did, it would drop away and not jam the gun internals. The XD's (and a Beretta 87 with overtravel) transformed to being inaccurate to highly accurate. And yes, I use a firm grip when shooting pistols, but a "death grip" is hard to maintain consistently, results in inconsistent muscle engagement, and can cause its own inaccuracy issues.
Very interesting
It is!
Trigger pull sounds great but how is the reset?
Short and really good
What about the mounting system? I heard that if you rack an optic regularly it does not hold zero???
There mounting system is like no other. It has a great lock up. It can cause it to lose zero but that’s like a ton of racking.
I have the full size echelon Is it that big of a difference to purchase this one? 1/2 inch in length and a bit thinner grip?
They are about the same when it comes to shootability. But when it comes to concealment this is just a bit smaller and easier. Think of it like a Glock 17 vs 19
It is perfection except for the ambi mag release. I filed the ambi mag release flush on the side aI do not use.
Interesting. Is it because it rubs or you just don’t like ambi mag releases
TOOL GUY AND GUN GUY you have guns that are cheap and Cordless tools that are great Harbor freight makes some Better tools then some of the stuff that HOME DEPOT sells But with a gun I Usually like my guns to be Up there with Milwaukee Tools not with the Crap that CO$T $200 vs a gun that COST $800
I am picking up what you are putting down.
I believe because of this gun, glock will do better with how there gun look now.
Interesting thought
I think if you hammer it in, the magazine goes too far, just put in normally, and don't hammer it. Just sayin...
That’s exactly what we were thinking.