WeatherTech vs AVS Window Deflector | 5th Gen 4Runner | Best Deflector?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 133

  • @kaptainkaveman7628
    @kaptainkaveman7628 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I have used AVS in the past. So I have noticed that AVS was very jagged and a bit flimsy. Followed the instructions as described. Immediately the window once rolled up had issues. Several months later on a distant interstate … snap. Replaced with WeatherTech. No buyers remorse. Great video, thank you.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for confirming this as well. The Weathertech is definitely built better, I had some negative comments about me choosing the weathertech over the avs.

  • @JASmith-oy8db
    @JASmith-oy8db ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Just the kind of review I have been looking for! Thanks!

  • @MuscleCarGamer
    @MuscleCarGamer ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Thanks for the video! I was torn between the two but now know I'm going for Weathertech! Great review!

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks for watching! Appreciate ya!

  • @gregdavis2344
    @gregdavis2344 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    First timer, and I chose Weather tech because of the fit and finish comments online.
    I love it

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yes! Good choice! It’s superior compared to the avs. Quality is night and day.

    • @jodidoe4139
      @jodidoe4139 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Current WT is not available on Amazon for 2024 Runner trd pro. Also Amazon indicates it does not fit for the vehicle selected. Bummer I really liked the way it fit.

  • @Denise-zp1js
    @Denise-zp1js ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I have had rainguards on all of my past vehicles that were purchased and installed by others. I recently purchased a larger SUV so needed to order rainguards for it. I also compared both brands before ordering being on a tight budget, and decided to pay more for the WeatherTech which all reviewers stated a much better overall fit versus the AVS for my particular vehicle. There were complaints for my vehicle that they had problems with the AVS. Living out in the country with tons of trees… and branches falling during major storms… I need something that isn’t flimsy. I enjoyed your video, especially the installation since I will be doing it myself this time. Rainguards are very much needed here in the Northwest Florida Panhandle with monsoon-type rain storms, summer heat, and sun glare. Thank you!
    Oh… I also love WeatherTech’s floor liners and ordered those for my past 3 vehicles!

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You’ll definitely like the Weathertechs. No regrets here. Weathertech liners are nice but I really like the husky liners. Look into that if you’re ever in the market for floor liners again. Thanks again for watching!

  • @utubetjc
    @utubetjc ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just ordered the WeatherTech set for my 2023 4Runner ORP. The best choice IMO.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Congrats on your new runner! You made the right choice

  • @johngregory4801
    @johngregory4801 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I picked up the WeatherTech deflectors for my Grand Marquis a month ago. As you said, they were almost twice as expensive, but the fit and finish is superb and they work spectacularly.

  • @lawrenceyundt8489
    @lawrenceyundt8489 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent demo, and agreed. I too have had both over time on different vehicles. AVS, less expensive. Terrific WeatherTech product AND superior customer service and customer support! You've done a helpful video for others

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Appreciate the support my friend!

  • @bhduong2008
    @bhduong2008 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thanks for the comparison. Very helpful.

  • @JoseSandoval-cu2kf
    @JoseSandoval-cu2kf 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Just bought some Weathertec for my 22 Ram! Installing today ! Thanks for the video!

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No problem! Good choice! Make sure you clean the door trims well before installing.

  • @michaelschmidt5444
    @michaelschmidt5444 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you for demonstrating both I too will be choosing the Weather Tech.

  • @mikelig8365
    @mikelig8365 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    you just sold another set of Weather Tech, Thanks for your clear and honest review.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No worries bud, Its a really good quality product. You will see for yourself once you get yours. One tip, make sure you clean the door edges well before installing. It makes a huge difference.

  • @Wes_5kyph1
    @Wes_5kyph1 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Depending on your car's aerodynamics, I have found they even quiet down the wind noise at high speeds with the windows cracked.

  • @jonmai5545
    @jonmai5545 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I’ve had both. My weather tech after a year on my accord I also lost my rear driver side it kept falling down. Avs I’ve had 2 years on my Tacoma and no issues. I ended up buying the avs on my tundra pro since they’re holding up on the Tacoma.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh wow really? Did you clean the windows prior to install?

    • @JosephOlson-ld2td
      @JosephOlson-ld2td 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I had AVS on 1996 Ranger, 2000 F150, 2007 Tacoma and 2014 Sienna....no issues, but open to upgrade for my 2024 RAV4, thanks

    • @jamiestrang-guzman9174
      @jamiestrang-guzman9174 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Still have the original AVS on my mom's 2006 Honda CR-V! They're coming loose, and 1 has a cracked, but none came off yet or lost any plastic. 18 years. Wish I could upload a photo.

  • @aphamnet
    @aphamnet ปีที่แล้ว +7

    This was an excellent review, Otzlee! Very helpful for anyone considering these products on their 4Runner.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank you! Appreciate you watching

  • @Wild1995
    @Wild1995 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    So true. You get what you pay for

  • @emilytrott
    @emilytrott 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent video! I installed the WeatherTech on my Forester less than a month ago and wish I'd seen your video first. I love your method for the rear deflector where you leave the tape on until it is up in the window channel. I took it off first and it got a hardly noticeable messy look when I had to reseat one of them. I don't think that anyone else would notice it, but sadly I definitely do.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Awesome! Thank you for finding me tho!

  • @rickbrown7287
    @rickbrown7287 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for the review. 😎👍
    Found this after I had already purchased weather tech for my Grand Cherokee.
    Haven't installed them yet.
    Looks easier than than the instructions that came with them.
    Went with weather tech because I love their floor liners.
    BTW.....
    Your Yota looks pretty sweet.
    ✌😎
    EDIT:
    Not sure where you're at.
    But if you ain't never been to the area around Ouray, Siverton and Telluride, Colorado....
    you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO GO!!!
    I try to get away from the Texas summer heat every couple years.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you! Appreciate the feedback I will definitely checkout those locations. Telluride has been on my list but I’ll have to add the rest!

  • @Nolacon-j4o
    @Nolacon-j4o 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great no fluff review. When installing the AVS only a few inches of the 3M protective strip is to be removed, and then the remainder is pulled off after the deflector is in place.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Got it! Thanks for the suggestion.

  • @LanceChandler-uo6kb
    @LanceChandler-uo6kb 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I purchased AVS for my 2019 GMC Crew Cab and after 1 day they started warping and i followed the directions to the t. Purchased Weathertech and noticed immediately the Weathertech were a better fit. I used AVS for years now its Weathertech from now on

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks for your honest feedback. Weathertech is noticeably better.

  • @ronniemullis8717
    @ronniemullis8717 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just installed the AVS Bugflector II on my 23 Ford Maverick. It was a lot harder than it should have been. I liked the fact that it was not stick on. The problem was the four mounting points would not go flush with the bottom of the hood. I saw one video where the guy heated these four mounting points with a heat gun. You could see the plastic getting soft, but it seems like it would damage his hood paint.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว

      I don’t think it’s supposed to sit flush against the hood. I have around 1.5-2” gap between the deflector and hood. They included some soft rubber stickers to prevent the deflector from flexing and scratching the hood

    • @ronniemullis8717
      @ronniemullis8717 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@OtzleeExplains I was referring to under the Bottom of the hood. The push pins were hard to install because the holes that they come out of would not line up with the holes in the Bugflector. Yes I liked the fact that it didn’t fit flush with the top of the hood.

  • @jimb9265
    @jimb9265 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks again for another great review!

  • @MicrowaveOvenmit
    @MicrowaveOvenmit 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    More money = better product, when there’s practically not marketing. I just ordered weather tech from the weather tech website and not AVS from all I could find being on Amazon. I have Amazon stuff, don’t get me wrong. I like solid products for my Jeep though.

  • @gsbaum
    @gsbaum ปีที่แล้ว

    I just put WeatherTechs on my 5th gen, so I had to watch. Glad I chose them over AVS. thanks!

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You won’t regret it!

  • @nicolethompson5871
    @nicolethompson5871 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you for the review. I noticed your windows were down the same length all the way around. If you did it with the remote, could you advise how. I have a 2023 4runner and pushed the unlock 2 times and my windows didn't move.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว

      Mine doesn’t have window roll down. Not sure exactly which model it comes standard in

  • @tillertk
    @tillertk 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A quick tip for AVS is too used small carboard squares when installing for all the corners, also helps if there's some extra adhesive in the window sill

  • @jamiestrang-guzman9174
    @jamiestrang-guzman9174 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How is each one holding up?
    Really need an update. It's the long haul that we're interested in.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Weathertech is in great condition and working as intended

  • @druglord57
    @druglord57 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for this video! What has been your experience with wind noise with both brands?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I’ve heard nominal noise with the addition of these on. The Weathertech is definitely made better imo

    • @druglord57
      @druglord57 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@OtzleeExplains thanks! When you say nominal do you mean yes just a bit?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@druglord57 I honestly don’t hear anything except my big ole tires that’s why I said nominal. Some people may say that they hear something but I don’t. I occasionally get wind noise but I’d think that would happen regt

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Regardless

  • @rebeltake
    @rebeltake ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Are you in SoCal ? Rain has been crazy lately thinking of going with WEATHERTECH I have they’re cargo liner top notch !

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yup I’m in so cal! We haven’t had rain like this in many years. I had the deflector on during the last storm and I was happy I got to put it to use.

  • @jenniferregan4428
    @jenniferregan4428 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Weather T on my 21 TRD offroad a huge fail. Including asking dealer to install. Windows don't seal.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว

      It works perfectly on mine, are your visors taped down?

  • @JohnnyReno71
    @JohnnyReno71 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just got me a 4 runner and want to add these but also thinking of tinting the windows. Is it better for to tint first or does it matter?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว

      I would tint first, you’d have to remove these if you did them first

  • @Zach-mj7ds
    @Zach-mj7ds 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What brand are your wheels?

  • @2shoestoo
    @2shoestoo 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    I think you had your mind made up before you started the comparison. The advantage of weather tech your employing American workers

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The packaging, the material, the overall product was definitely better. And yes 👍 American workers!

    • @beebop4333
      @beebop4333 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      YES Support American workers, but why charge double the price. Profit over people.

    • @stevenpeterson8444
      @stevenpeterson8444 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@beebop4333because manufacturing costs are higher and workers are paid better.

    • @ranchlife8128
      @ranchlife8128 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@beebop4333It costs more to manufacture in the US. Not profit over people, just simple math.

  • @numba1nitemare
    @numba1nitemare 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I had a problem with weather tech. Bought some and the window never adjusted to it.. I left the window closed for 2 weeks ( Winter didn't need it open) and I still had problems opening and closing my window.. the safety crap made it come down and I couldn't close it

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Did you clean the edges when sticking?

  • @isaiahrowell6007
    @isaiahrowell6007 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Most of the points he mentioned as to why he personally felt they were superior baser on looks and feel are precisely the reasons they are inferior. Thicker, heavier and less bendable are exactly why most of these go missing and fall out or break while the avs continue carrying on. Personally in channel cosmetic aspects arent worth tge headache thats easily avoided with tape on. If you dont trust the tape automotive weatherproof adhesive can be a more permanent solution

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Appreciate your feedback but i'll continue to disagree. If you purchased the two and had them side by side, you can see a huge discrepancy between quality and fitment. Mine have stayed on and have had no issues. Don't get me wrong, The AVS might be fine and its 50% less in cost so it might be a better buy but as far as quality, I'll stick to weathertech.

  • @T_rmrz
    @T_rmrz 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So you didn’t need a 3m tape for the weather tech driver side? Does it move when you roll down your windows?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It doesn’t move at all, it’s a tight fit to insert it

  • @pjmac7642
    @pjmac7642 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great video. Thank you.

  • @rafabob-so9vc
    @rafabob-so9vc 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Does the sensor goes off every time you open the windows? I am having trouble with mine.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nope, did you clean the window before installing? Have you tried pulling the window visor away from the car to make sure the tape is secure in the channel

  • @kennethbarrett1912
    @kennethbarrett1912 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you put the front lower edge outside of the window? your picture was not very clear about this. Weather tech says it goes on the outside of the window.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว

      This particular model is an in-channel. You have to bend it slightly to get it tucked in. I prefer the in channel

  • @mracer8
    @mracer8 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    1. Bendable is actually better than non benable plastic. Less chance of cracking

  • @CaptainAugust
    @CaptainAugust 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ive heard many people say in-channel tears up the tint on your windows. Have you noticed this at all?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I haven’t had any issues or scratches on my tint. It’s been over 3 years with this particular set. I would highly recommend it

  • @JasonSmith-dl4kj
    @JasonSmith-dl4kj ปีที่แล้ว

    A friend gave me AVS but they were used. Do you have to have the 3M tape or can you just insert them?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว

      For the AVS, you will need 3m tape.

  • @papax4815
    @papax4815 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    AVS all day

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No way. Did you check them both out?

    • @papax4815
      @papax4815 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@OtzleeExplains No, I don’t need too. I just purchased a 2014 Tacoma TRD Sport. And a friend gifted them to me. It was a blessing from him, and Jesus Christ. They look amazing. And I’m very pleased with them. And thank God for them. God bless.

  • @MR-he4jb
    @MR-he4jb 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Long term review?? Noise?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      It’s great, no discoloration and no road noise

    • @MR-he4jb
      @MR-he4jb 21 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Cracked my drivers side putting it in :(
      passenger side popped right in though
      ** called the support line they answered quick and in less than 2 minutes I had an email I sent them pictures of the broken one and they've got a new one on the way already!!!*******

  • @joeferderber5004
    @joeferderber5004 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    For tape versions should use a Brillo pad and alcohol to scrub and clean in the widow channel ☝️just saying

  • @4535goldenage
    @4535goldenage 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Is the weather tech printed on the window guard or is it a sticker?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It’s etched onto the plastic

  • @jattdentistry
    @jattdentistry 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What percent tints do you have?

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      DETER THEFT! 3m Color Stable Nano Series 20% Window Tint 2021 Toyota 4Runner
      th-cam.com/video/OWhe6uxShUE/w-d-xo.html

  • @doozy1776
    @doozy1776 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    if you could shoot me a link to some raptor lights you like that would be dope!

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I got you. Use PL7P for discount while you’re at it. cartrimhome.com/Black-Style-LED-Light-4Runner

  • @17gt350
    @17gt350 21 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I’ve had both and I gotta say avs for me was a better product.

  • @Roaringmushroom
    @Roaringmushroom ปีที่แล้ว

    Does it increase the wind noise?

  • @glennanderson2790
    @glennanderson2790 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I like the matte finish of the AVS better

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Quality is so much better in the weathertech.

  • @rocketeric6516
    @rocketeric6516 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great review

  • @904zaybo
    @904zaybo ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Seems like a one sided review to me…. From start to ending you can tell you did not like the other company product. But good video.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      As soon as I saw both packaging and held each one I could tell right away the Weathertech was made much better. It’s not even close as far as superiority. The construction on Weathertech was cut perfectly and the edges were smooth cvs avs. I did install both on to see if I was wrong.

    • @Darkhare33
      @Darkhare33 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Youre so full of shit 😅... how much did weather tech pay?​@OtzleeExplains

  • @belamtn
    @belamtn ปีที่แล้ว

    Have you ever seen deflectors that actually have a dripline that extends a little past the window opening in the door? I want a set that will allow my windows to be down all the way and send rain OUTSIDE, assuming no wind (I deliver mail out of a 95 Hilux Surf).

  • @chaselarue2454
    @chaselarue2454 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    see how his sensor went off and rolled the window back down. that’s bc there’s too much friction going on with the in-channel guards . itll blow ur window motor eventually no good .

    • @timmytom4447
      @timmytom4447 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The instructions provided say say ….
      3) If safety features cause the window to roll down, reset the window by:
      a) roll the window down, hold the down button for 5 seconds
      b) raise the window without activating the auto-up feature. Hold the up button for 3 seconds.

  • @chien-shengtsai8626
    @chien-shengtsai8626 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    WeatherTech is not as good as before. I had WeatherTech on my 1998 Volvo, much thicker and still in use after more than 20 years.
    Got Weathertech for my 2015 Volvo. Much thinner, not as good coverage--they skimped. Cracked the first set of front ones upon install. Lost a rear one this year, just came off. Got a replacement. Turned out to be darker tint. Called, they don't make the lighter tint ones anymore. So I have one mismatched in color, darker than the other three.
    Front ones interferes when folding the front mirrors, in addition to the wind noise.
    Looking for alternative vendor. Quality has gone down on WeatherTech.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Not sure what else is out there please let me know if you find out. Weathertech has been the leading superior brand for in window visors

  • @nonyabiznes248
    @nonyabiznes248 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm going weathertech, don't want any tape

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good Choice

    • @mracer8
      @mracer8 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@OtzleeExplainsyou forgot to tell him don’t install the 2 for the back window

  • @deanc.5984
    @deanc.5984 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    WeatherTech is VERY LOUD, WIND NOISE, I can't stand it after one year.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I don’t get wind noise not sure what you mean

  • @chrislove68ify
    @chrislove68ify ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Avs is garbage I'm returning mine

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah I’m recommending the Weathertech

  • @ltatjsallday8709
    @ltatjsallday8709 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    AVS all day WeatherTek 🗑

    • @richardrykard3246
      @richardrykard3246 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Just purchased AVS hope I was right but WT seemed too expensive for what it is.

  • @firefightingmailman
    @firefightingmailman ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Weather tech doesn't bend, but to install you must bend it to get it in track What a joke. A little extra tape inside track. Useless review.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It’s a snug fit so it stays on. The product is not meant to bend. If it bends, it would mean that it would move during high winds/draft. You don’t want it to bend. The quality is superior compared to the avs.

    • @firefightingmailman
      @firefightingmailman ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@OtzleeExplains you said it didn't bend in the video and you were clearly bending it and when you installed it you bent it. Just because it is more ridged doesn't mean it is superior means it may break easier. Your video is not worth me wasting my time watching it. I had a truck for 20 years that taped on the paint never lost one.

    • @OtzleeExplains
      @OtzleeExplains  ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@firefightingmailman I’m not affiliated with either company but took the time to review both so my viewers don’t have to. If you didn’t like my point of view, that’s totally fine. Appreciate you watching it anyways. Are all your comments this hateful?

    • @azizshavershian2065
      @azizshavershian2065 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @firefightingmailman shut up

    • @michaelpalm2210
      @michaelpalm2210 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I got the outside stick on AVS ones. The in- channel ones are a P.I.T.A.