Not only did I learn about EFF overflow from this video, I learned that you can see the Crystal Star dropping all of the icons you shoot when using Sweet Treat and Sweet Feast.
It's been pretty neat seeing the any% of this game go from playing the main game as well as possible, to deliberately messing with the code to obtain cheat code-like powers
Seeing those intro function window environments made me feel like I was in my introductory CompSci classes again. Regardless, TTYD never ceases to amaze with how much is discovered about it.
ACE may be possible, but he certainly didn’t do anything that approached ACE. ACE is only ACE if you can execute an arbitrary code you want (hence the name). All he did was modify specific flags in a specific area of memory.
These are the crucial first steps to entirely breaking the game to extreme nonsense. I love it and can't wait to see what this community is going to figure out within the next 6 months after learning this.
I have a feeling that in couple years time the speedruns for ttyd will be just like the speedruns for the pokemon gen1 and gen2 gb/gbc games. Fully abusing arbitrary code execution with inventories items/order and player names(maybe the savefile name?) to complete the game in minutes.
Okay, so we arrive in rogueport and immediately buy a fire flower. Then walk up to the shop keeper and hammer him in the face 14 times, followed by 7 frame perfect backwards jumps. After this press X A X X A Y A Y, stick your controller up your butt, call the police, and boom. We're now at the shadow queen.
Not getting Yoshi gets you to save another 30 minutes. So... Could be a sub 1:30 be possible with this new skip? I'm rooting for you guys, make it possible!
It would save all of the time used to go get Yoshi for palace skip, but it would also remove the speed boost that Yoshi gives once he's joined the team. I don't know what that totals out to, but if the current TAS is 1:53, it'll be pushing 1:30 pretty closely with the rerouting.
Assuming we find a way to easily overflow EFF, are there any other flags we could fiddle with that might also save time elsewhere throughout the run? Such as ways to get into the hooktail fortress pipe or increasing mario's static walking speed?
Jayce from what I’m getting it’s in the possibility. The hooktails castle skip could be possible but it’s pretty early in the game so it’s quiet limiting in the use of names abilities. Also I don’t know that specific code but I don’t think changing walking speed is possible, since a lot of effects would cancel it
I'm always fascinated to see the new techniques of TAS for TTYD, that's so interesting even tho it's complicated x). The only glitch I managed to be successfully doing without save states was bookcase jump lol
The process for this theory, reminds me a lot of how speedrunners for Wind Waker (SD) perform actions that take up memory within the game, just to unload the barrier. Although, this glitch theory and the Actor Unloading glitch are two separate things, so I'm not sure if I can compare the two.
So you're telling me that you set flags that allow mario to ignore wall collision, turn invisible and float midair? Or walk through walls, dissapear, and fly? Mario is much more unique than the other guys!
My worry with this glitch is that you'd have to get EFF cap IN the room where you'll do palace skip, preferably in a battle itself. otherwise you'll run out of memory since each step Mario takes increases memory by a substantial amount, and you'll only have about 20-30kb to work with at best it seems like.
Maybe I didn't understand this, but do stacked EFFs despawn when opening a door? Because there is a boat panel in the Palace. Though you'd need Bobbery and the Boat ability... you have the trick already completed, so all you need is to keep exploring the game and surely you'll find an EFF you can work with!
The question also becomes how do you time the platform without Yoshi since that's the intended solution. I'm sure it's possible through some careful placements but that would also be worth checking out.
Great question! This was brought up in our Discord server, and sjorec found that it can easily be done humanly th-cam.com/video/DkfCgGkh5dU/w-d-xo.html
A little confusing, but still very helpful! I'd rather have this than no info at all, & I'd love more videos like it! So, if I understand right, the goal is to get 256 EFF, save, get out of bounds, & go to the loading zone somehow?
Super close! Swap the two in the middle of your list: the idea is to get 256 EFF, get out of bounds and then save, and then go into the loading zone. When you save while out of bounds, the game will put you back out of bounds when you re-open that save. :)
@@jaykebird2go Ahhh, thank you! & I assume there's a save & reset since the walking through walls part is just used to get OoB; You can't use the loading zone in such a state. It sounds like a Malleo video on EFFs would help commenters theorize. Although maybe it's just me. How can we make EFFs? How can we make them persist? How can we reduce how much memory they use?
Nope, I just checked and there actually aren't any EFFs during the elevator animation... The largest source of EFFs are definitely some of the special abilities, such as Sweet Feast which generates about 70.
So what are the required partners to obtain now if yoshi (and flurry from the teleporter room early) is potentially not needed? There is Goombella, Koops and Flavio (unsure if Bobbery is needed)
At the least, we will only need Goombella and Koops. Hopefully we can stack EFFs in memory without using the late-game partners, as it would take a lot of time to obtain them
@@Malleo Suppose it turns out that you need Bobbery to stack EFFs. I know Bobbery's a moderate detour, but much less of a detour than Yoshi or Vivian. How much time would a Bobbery method save over the current run?
So, when you set the flag, you can't use doors or loading zones, right... So it's not possible to set the flag naturally with Vivian and somehow interrupt the flag being removed via some other method, then travel to your destination, right?
Great video! Just some critique, your voice stemmed pretty quiet compared to the music you were using, so maybe turn down the volume of the music or bump up your voice a bit for next time :)
If I understand correctly, the route would then instead be to get Koops, obtain Boat Mode as fast as possible, spawn a ton of EFFs, then perform the overflow at (or near) the Palace Skip room? I think it's safe to assume that there isn't enough memory to walk all the way through the Palace of Shadows before the heap is filled, right? Also I love that speedrun routes are getting closer and closer to actual infosec, lmao \o/
One thing I forgot to mention is that when you leave a room, the EFF entry table is reset. If we build up 256 EFFs with boat mode and leave the room, we'll be back down to 0/256 EFFs. So we need some way to build EFFs in the Palace Skip room.
@@Malleo Ah, I see; that explains why it's still just a theory for now. It does make sense, though; it's also sad that the relevant flags prevent interacting with doors, otherwise you could've just carried the WTW through doors :( Are there any other flags with potential? Something that would allow clipping OoB nonetheless, such as some form of Jump Storage, or hitbox reduction?
Time for the Palace to EFF off.
Wait... so this is a speedrun skip that depends on keeping a data leak in check? That is ridiculous. I love it.
Hey Malleo, when will the exam be, and can we use our notes?
The exam is cancelled due to COVID-19
Not only did I learn about EFF overflow from this video, I learned that you can see the Crystal Star dropping all of the icons you shoot when using Sweet Treat and Sweet Feast.
It's been pretty neat seeing the any% of this game go from playing the main game as well as possible, to deliberately messing with the code to obtain cheat code-like powers
Seeing those intro function window environments made me feel like I was in my introductory CompSci classes again.
Regardless, TTYD never ceases to amaze with how much is discovered about it.
and here we are, with ACE through this method. nice.
ACE may be possible, but he certainly didn’t do anything that approached ACE. ACE is only ACE if you can execute an arbitrary code you want (hence the name). All he did was modify specific flags in a specific area of memory.
These are the crucial first steps to entirely breaking the game to extreme nonsense. I love it and can't wait to see what this community is going to figure out within the next 6 months after learning this.
I have a feeling that in couple years time the speedruns for ttyd will be just like the speedruns for the pokemon gen1 and gen2 gb/gbc games. Fully abusing arbitrary code execution with inventories items/order and player names(maybe the savefile name?) to complete the game in minutes.
I mean it's happened in the N64 Zeldas, I can totally see it happening here.
Okay, so we arrive in rogueport and immediately buy a fire flower. Then walk up to the shop keeper and hammer him in the face 14 times, followed by 7 frame perfect backwards jumps. After this press X A X X A Y A Y, stick your controller up your butt, call the police, and boom. We're now at the shadow queen.
And the game is only 17 years old...
@@bigballoftape5343 that gave me a good laugh when I read it first thing in the morning. Thank you 😊
There's already one theory about completing the first paper mario by sequence breaking the very first pipe in the game.
Not getting Yoshi gets you to save another 30 minutes. So...
Could be a sub 1:30 be possible with this new skip?
I'm rooting for you guys, make it possible!
It would save all of the time used to go get Yoshi for palace skip, but it would also remove the speed boost that Yoshi gives once he's joined the team. I don't know what that totals out to, but if the current TAS is 1:53, it'll be pushing 1:30 pretty closely with the rerouting.
not even a speedrunner but TTYD is my favorite game of all time and i fucking love seeing people find out shit like this
Assuming we find a way to easily overflow EFF, are there any other flags we could fiddle with that might also save time elsewhere throughout the run? Such as ways to get into the hooktail fortress pipe or increasing mario's static walking speed?
Jayce from what I’m getting it’s in the possibility. The hooktails castle skip could be possible but it’s pretty early in the game so it’s quiet limiting in the use of names abilities. Also I don’t know that specific code but I don’t think changing walking speed is possible, since a lot of effects would cancel it
I wish Speedrun History was a part of school
I can only imagine try to isolate every single dynamic buffer in the game until you finally find the one that can overflow
I love how gamecube games are starting to get busted open with overflow shenanigans.
I'm always fascinated to see the new techniques of TAS for TTYD, that's so interesting even tho it's complicated x).
The only glitch I managed to be successfully doing without save states was bookcase jump lol
how to walk through the wall:
step 1: walk through it
A more accurate description would be
Step 1 - mess with visual effects
Step 2 - walk through the wall
I’m a simple man, I see malleo, I like
So should we be pressing EFF to pay respects?
The process for this theory, reminds me a lot of how speedrunners for Wind Waker (SD) perform actions that take up memory within the game, just to unload the barrier. Although, this glitch theory and the Actor Unloading glitch are two separate things, so I'm not sure if I can compare the two.
just when you think you've got it down pat, a new theory comes up! :D so exciting!
This is really cool, great work by everyone
Really interesting concept, nice job!
as a computer engineering major specializing in computer architecture, this warms my heart 😭💕
You know it’s big when they pull out the 42 piece orchestra
We went from finding blimp ticket skip to finding blimp skip😂
So you're telling me that you set flags that allow mario to ignore wall collision, turn invisible and float midair? Or walk through walls, dissapear, and fly? Mario is much more unique than the other guys!
When you start seeing the words *heap* and *corrupt* hand in hand at 8:38, shit's about go down inevitably.
blimp ticket skip skip
You're a youtuber where I expect you to have a ton of subscribers and that your videos would get a lot of views quickly but that's not really the case
Miguel Diaz thing is, this is an extremely niche channel and most of the stuff Malleo talks about takes a lot of knowledge/interest to care about
BioSpark I just assume he would do good considering the success/popularity of people like Pannenkoek and Stryder
I mean he had a few successful videos, like the "When luck isn't enough" video he made a while back, so he's not that unsuccessful as you say he is
I agree! I wish I had known about his videos sooner as I only subscribed about 2 months ago because his ttyd speedrun was in my recommended
@@MiguelDiaz_ you mean people like Scott and Scott
This is exciting
There is no possible way to gitch out Vivians partnermove so mario gains the walk through walls effect? Cause that would be sweet as honey!
I don't think that saves time, since you'd have to go even farther out of the way to get Vivian than we do now to get Yoshi. Cool thought though
My worry with this glitch is that you'd have to get EFF cap IN the room where you'll do palace skip, preferably in a battle itself. otherwise you'll run out of memory since each step Mario takes increases memory by a substantial amount, and you'll only have about 20-30kb to work with at best it seems like.
Maybe I didn't understand this, but do stacked EFFs despawn when opening a door? Because there is a boat panel in the Palace. Though you'd need Bobbery and the Boat ability... you have the trick already completed, so all you need is to keep exploring the game and surely you'll find an EFF you can work with!
The question also becomes how do you time the platform without Yoshi since that's the intended solution. I'm sure it's possible through some careful placements but that would also be worth checking out.
Great question! This was brought up in our Discord server, and sjorec found that it can easily be done humanly th-cam.com/video/DkfCgGkh5dU/w-d-xo.html
@@Malleo And then I pointed out that this trick had already been figured out in 2015 lol
th-cam.com/video/VRhGzkYt6JE/w-d-xo.html
Assuming this works eventually, is there any other location walk through walls could be useful, or not really?
i'm boutta get learned
"walk through walls" WAIT WHAT
ok this sounds like ACE
i got learned.
@@RichConnerGMN (For absolute clarification, it most definitely isn't ace, it's just a buffer overflow.)
@@berylliosis5250 yeah i got that
A little confusing, but still very helpful! I'd rather have this than no info at all, & I'd love more videos like it!
So, if I understand right, the goal is to get 256 EFF, save, get out of bounds, & go to the loading zone somehow?
Super close! Swap the two in the middle of your list: the idea is to get 256 EFF, get out of bounds and then save, and then go into the loading zone. When you save while out of bounds, the game will put you back out of bounds when you re-open that save. :)
@@jaykebird2go Ahhh, thank you! & I assume there's a save & reset since the walking through walls part is just used to get OoB; You can't use the loading zone in such a state.
It sounds like a Malleo video on EFFs would help commenters theorize. Although maybe it's just me. How can we make EFFs? How can we make them persist? How can we reduce how much memory they use?
I got here just in time lets go!!
So are a lot of EFF's on the screen during certain cutscenes which are known to lag a lot on emulator? (like the elevator in chapter 6)
Nope, I just checked and there actually aren't any EFFs during the elevator animation... The largest source of EFFs are definitely some of the special abilities, such as Sweet Feast which generates about 70.
So what are the required partners to obtain now if yoshi (and flurry from the teleporter room early) is potentially not needed? There is Goombella, Koops and Flavio (unsure if Bobbery is needed)
At the least, we will only need Goombella and Koops. Hopefully we can stack EFFs in memory without using the late-game partners, as it would take a lot of time to obtain them
@@Malleo Suppose it turns out that you need Bobbery to stack EFFs. I know Bobbery's a moderate detour, but much less of a detour than Yoshi or Vivian. How much time would a Bobbery method save over the current run?
:D it's over9000 HYPE!
Pretty cool but I was really hoping for ACE... someday
I am simple man, I see this, I watch
So, when you set the flag, you can't use doors or loading zones, right... So it's not possible to set the flag naturally with Vivian and somehow interrupt the flag being removed via some other method, then travel to your destination, right?
Even if you could, getting Vivian would probably take longer than it's worth. Getting Yoshi is enough of a detour as it is.
Mario is a God with effs
Yes too good at them
I wonder how this will work in the US and PAL versions of the game, since basically you have to do double the work because of the 512 EFFs
this is amazing
Not ACE 👏👏
i think you should put a music note on the left of the text on the thing that says what song is playing
if i wasn't studying cs i would have no idea what im looking at...
Frogger adventures? What?
what ticking
What are the chances of an updated Paper Mario 64 any% TAS?
I take it you can get to the chest in the next room without Yoshi by speed swapping, right?
Imagine this in an RTA run...
Alright I have a bone to pick with the way you pronounce "thus".
bt skip skip?
Someone’s probably said this but
SUPER MARIO WORLD
Best skip ever.
8:31 caption goof
Fixed lol thank you
How much time will this save?
Great video! Just some critique, your voice stemmed pretty quiet compared to the music you were using, so maybe turn down the volume of the music or bump up your voice a bit for next time :)
What could make this possible but not save time
if yoshi was needed for the method
Update??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
PogU
Missed a chance to say "This is just a theory a Game Theory"
I just noticed I'm not subscribed. I'm terribly sorry. I've fixed that problem and I promise I won't make that mistake again for you.
But hey, that’s just a theory. A GAME THEORY.
If I understand correctly, the route would then instead be to get Koops, obtain Boat Mode as fast as possible, spawn a ton of EFFs, then perform the overflow at (or near) the Palace Skip room? I think it's safe to assume that there isn't enough memory to walk all the way through the Palace of Shadows before the heap is filled, right?
Also I love that speedrun routes are getting closer and closer to actual infosec, lmao \o/
One thing I forgot to mention is that when you leave a room, the EFF entry table is reset. If we build up 256 EFFs with boat mode and leave the room, we'll be back down to 0/256 EFFs. So we need some way to build EFFs in the Palace Skip room.
@@Malleo Ah, I see; that explains why it's still just a theory for now. It does make sense, though; it's also sad that the relevant flags prevent interacting with doors, otherwise you could've just carried the WTW through doors :(
Are there any other flags with potential? Something that would allow clipping OoB nonetheless, such as some form of Jump Storage, or hitbox reduction?
Could you use effects from the infinite items?
First.
blimp ticket skip skip