Manipulating a 1 in 46,000 Chance - When Luck Just Isn't Enough

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
  • In this video, I cover the process behind reverse-engineering the Random Number Generator algorithm and guaranteeing a 1 in 50,000 event to occur by only wasting 0.2 SECONDS.
    Please check out jdaster and trivial171:
    trivial171: / @trivial1716
    jdaster: / jdaster64
    jdaster's gamefaqs post: gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gamecub...
    jdaster's website: supermariofiles.wordpress.com...
    Check out SGDQ2019! Watch at / gamesdonequick and view the schedule at gamesdonequick.com/schedule
    Music Used:
    Super Mario Galaxy - Honeyhive Galaxy
    New Super Mario Bros Wii - Final Bowser Phase 2
    Paper Mario: TTYD - Rogueport Sewers
    Paper Mario: TTYD - Pirate's Grotto
    Paper Mario: TTYD - Riddle Tower
    Donkey Kong Country 2 - Crocodile Isle
    Super Metroid - Brinstar Red Soil Area
    LoZ Majora's Mask - Final Hours
    Super Mario Galaxy - Bowser's Galaxy Generator
    Paper Mario: TTYD - Farewell Rogueport
    _____
    Watch me live at / tasmalleo weekdays at 8pm EDT
    Follow me on twitter: / tasmalleo
  • เกม

ความคิดเห็น • 497

  • @Malleo
    @Malleo  4 ปีที่แล้ว +514

    Hey everyone! I wanted to get this video out quickly so I could also make people aware of Summer Games Done Quick. As a result I missed an error in the video. At 22:57, RNG(3) should be a^2*b + ab + b, not a^2 + ab + b, and RNG(4) should be a^3b + a^2b + ab + b. Apologies for the error!

    • @HunnyDoo
      @HunnyDoo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +105

      I KNEW something looked off about that equation *nods intelligently*

    • @hereil
      @hereil 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

      it's not like i understood anything anyway so we cool

    • @TetanusBooster
      @TetanusBooster 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      Really, you could have got away without this message dude 😉

    • @InfoManiac742
      @InfoManiac742 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      THAT EXPLAINS IT

    • @angeldude101
      @angeldude101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      That makes it _so_ much simpler, because now it's just b * Sum(a^x, x = 0 -> i) You don't even need to bother with coefficients anymore because you can just add b at the very end.

  • @imaginaryboy2000
    @imaginaryboy2000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1347

    Imagine seeing a 30 second clip and being like "huh, that's some good RNG"
    But secretly it was a culmination of three people using their mathematics PhDs to calculate exactly how they needed to do things

    • @phungduyphong3457
      @phungduyphong3457 4 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      I think the math all covered in bachelor degree major in engineering is enough for this

    • @147CT
      @147CT 4 ปีที่แล้ว +183

      @@phungduyphong3457 The math isn't really that impressive-it's standard in a freshman-level course in discrete mathematics-what's impressive is seeing a problem and knowing how to apply that math, outside a math class, to solve the problem. It's pretty common for people to be in awe of math anywhere beyond the high-school level, especially if it's not part of the calculus sequence, but people should know that these problem solving skills transcend math classes. These are the skills that students outside of STEM take math courses to develop, and they are far too often neglected.

    • @SilverLining1
      @SilverLining1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@147CT beautiful comment

    • @MxPokirby
      @MxPokirby 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@SilverLining1 And then someone somewhere just gets it by pure luck some day anyways?

    • @0ctopusComp1etely
      @0ctopusComp1etely 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@MxPokirby Theoretically, yes. That's how probability works, after all. Even if the chance of the video's particular scenario is very low, that chance still exists.

  • @Snipeandslice
    @Snipeandslice 4 ปีที่แล้ว +535

    "I went forward in time to view alternate futures. To see all the possible outcomes of the coming mega rush drops."
    "How many did you see?"
    "46,000"
    "How many was possible?"
    "....One."

    • @LilacMonarch
      @LilacMonarch 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      As it turns out the text boxes of that conversation advance the index the perfect amount to get the drops in optimal time

    • @Beateau
      @Beateau 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Underrated comment right here.

    • @Kitsune_Chara_CG
      @Kitsune_Chara_CG 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      One Damn Time

  • @trainlong414
    @trainlong414 4 ปีที่แล้ว +529

    When you make a Paper Mario video for your college thesis

    • @discountchocolate4577
      @discountchocolate4577 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      This but unironically. This would make for an excellent undergrad thesis -and at least a decent master's thesis- .
      EDIT: See below response, I don't know what I'm talking about w.r.t. the latter.

    • @147CT
      @147CT 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      This doesn't really have enough math for a mathematics thesis, but you could probably do a CS thesis on random number generation in video games.
      NOW. If you solve this whole process with machine learning, suddenly you've got a grant and a cadre of undergrad assistants.

    • @discountchocolate4577
      @discountchocolate4577 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@147CT I only have a BS in math, so I should defer to someone with a stronger math/comp-sci background on this issue. I suspect it'd be a much stronger project in the computer science field than in pure math or even "applied math".

  • @Anonie324
    @Anonie324 5 ปีที่แล้ว +965

    I... was not ready for number theory in a video game TAS.

    • @astracrits4633
      @astracrits4633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +45

      Oh boy, you're gonna love parallel universes.

    • @oledakaajel
      @oledakaajel 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      @@astracrits4633 those aren't this complex.

    • @berylliosis5250
      @berylliosis5250 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      In terms of raw math, yeah. The constraints on some problems like keyless moat door at least seem more complicated

    • @astracrits4633
      @astracrits4633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      ​@@oledakaajel 'Twas a jest, my dude. Yeah, this is more complex than PUs. (But IMO this isn't really *that* much more complex--they're both basically just really long versions of math you can learn in your precalc class. PU traveling can basically be understood as just being really big vectors plus some modulus operations, and this is essentially just probability (and the manipulation thereof.))

    • @imaginaryboy2000
      @imaginaryboy2000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@astracrits4633 PU's are just overflows. Collision is calculated as an integer while positio is calculated with a float. This means that you can go very far out, with your collision overflowing, meaning you can still interact with the map, but your position is outside of the map, so you don't interact with a lot of things.
      At least, that's how it works in SM64, the most popular PU's. In other games it's different (i.e. in PM64 both collision AND position are integers, so they both overflow, but graphics and animation don't render properly, causing some issues).

  • @TJ-Henry-Yoshi
    @TJ-Henry-Yoshi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +769

    Don't you love when wanting to complete a game as quickly as possible results in RNG manipulation that requires advanced calculus and coding skills?

  • @Lugitaro
    @Lugitaro 5 ปีที่แล้ว +483

    RNG is my favorite topic for TAS because of how you can use black magic to get things to be in your favor.

    • @JorgetePanete
      @JorgetePanete 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      **throws an eye into the potion cauldron to advance the index 35 times**

    • @danieldunkum8394
      @danieldunkum8394 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@JorgetePanete *sacrifices pet dog to the gaming gods to increase probability*

    • @dddmemaybe
      @dddmemaybe 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      three steps to the left. a precise 47.25% angled hammer slam. now, hold it! jump 5 times quickly but not too quickly or you'll scare it. Now.. yess that's it... PRESS THE B BUTTON 2.5 PRESSES AND HOLD! OK, we now have 2 really good items :D.

    • @dddmemaybe
      @dddmemaybe 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ps this is how gorillas often will learn how to get fruit out of a tree or ect. if we were that much smarter maybe we could do this with only 2 inputs lol. but maybe that would take "4d" senses or some stupid shit lol.

    • @filiecs3
      @filiecs3 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Math and Science is the best form of black magic.

  • @mlfan5986
    @mlfan5986 5 ปีที่แล้ว +708

    “We’re gonna manipulate this ring to get a 1/46,000 chance”
    Me: Okay, seems reasonable...
    “Wasting only 2/10ths of a second”
    O_O

    • @crownedginger4082
      @crownedginger4082 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Use luck its faster

    • @ethic1637
      @ethic1637 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      JamesPlays Games lol

    • @ZaxorVonSkyler
      @ZaxorVonSkyler 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Isn't 2/10th the same as 1/5th?

    • @connorutz7197
      @connorutz7197 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Zaxor Von Skyler No, they’re different numbers 😤 duh

    • @ZaxorVonSkyler
      @ZaxorVonSkyler 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@connorutz7197 Chill bro I'm not the best at math but I do remember how 2/4 cup is the same amount as 1/2 cup.

  • @ZaxorVonSkyler
    @ZaxorVonSkyler 4 ปีที่แล้ว +210

    "No chance, no matter how small, is really impossible!"

    • @Lunascaped
      @Lunascaped 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Zaxor Von Skyler what about the chance today of me not being alone

    • @Lance0
      @Lance0 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      How about 0?
      I know this is a joke don't woooosh me

    • @gamemeister27
      @gamemeister27 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Lance0 Technically you can construct a scenario where the odds of something happening is 0%, but it could happen. If you had a dartboard with an infinite number of points on it, the odds of hitting any given point is 0%, but each time you throw a dart, that 0% chance happens for one of the infinitely many points.

    • @Lance0
      @Lance0 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@gamemeister27 well technically yes but like in a computer case there are only so many bits so I'm taking about cases where there are a finite states as 2^n is finite for all n finite

  • @mitchmanexe243
    @mitchmanexe243 5 ปีที่แล้ว +547

    I learned more about probability in these 40 minutes than I did throughout my whole stats class.

    • @cyn7261
      @cyn7261 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Still not much though, I assume.

    • @SqueezeBakon
      @SqueezeBakon 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

      Probably because you were taking stats and not probability

    • @BeyondFables
      @BeyondFables 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      SqueezeBakon Stats deals a lot with probability, so...

  • @Metaknightkirby2
    @Metaknightkirby2 4 ปีที่แล้ว +567

    When stryder7x only uploads once every blue moon so you gotta get your paper mario fix somewhere else.

    • @emmec.4433
      @emmec.4433 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      anyone got any recommendations? 🅱️lease, i’m starved for content

    • @Crafterofgenius
      @Crafterofgenius 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      @@emmec.4433 Fatguy703 has entertaining videos in my opinion

    • @blackheartzerotheundergrou3225
      @blackheartzerotheundergrou3225 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      _Paper Mario isn't gonna crash itself...!_

    • @p-rappatherappa6557
      @p-rappatherappa6557 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@blackheartzerotheundergrou3225 Well...

    • @j.hawkins8779
      @j.hawkins8779 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      where is he, anyway?

  • @maiorano84
    @maiorano84 4 ปีที่แล้ว +115

    At what point will there be college courses in Paper Mario?

  • @harnarius
    @harnarius 5 ปีที่แล้ว +73

    This is like catnip for computer engineering majors.

  • @lokman842
    @lokman842 4 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    those popoffs when you find time saves are heartwarming

    • @johannhowitzer
      @johannhowitzer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Those moments are why speedrunners do what we do. It's amazing how much satisfaction you can get over even a small discovery. I remember when I found a way to control subpixels in Freedom Planet and use that to force a zip into the wall, the moment the zip worked, I was walking on air. Didn't even matter that it didn't save time since the manipulation took so long to perform. I discovered something.

  • @camwoodstock
    @camwoodstock 5 ปีที่แล้ว +333

    I think I know why text calls RNG! It causes the slight changes of pitch in the text sound effects, hence why all the text scrolling sound marginally different and not the same sound directly repeated.
    Presumably it'll do this even if the sound is printed automatically, and more importantly, even if the scroll sound is set to be silent like it is in menus.
    That's why the pause ment shakes up RNG so much. It's pinging to play silent sounds of dozens of characters printing.

    • @romajimamulo
      @romajimamulo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +96

      I was thinking, it could also have to do with shaky text.
      They need to call it to see what random offset the characters should be at, even if the text doesn't actually shake

    • @tomjackal5708
      @tomjackal5708 4 ปีที่แล้ว +56

      doesn't it increment two times for each character? it might be calling once each to do both of those

    • @romajimamulo
      @romajimamulo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      @@tomjackal5708 Oh, interesting. I was thinking it was the two directions, but yeah

    • @tomjackal5708
      @tomjackal5708 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Also a possibility. Really there's a lot going on with the text in ttyd so it'd be hard to know for sure

    • @AzureLazuline
      @AzureLazuline 4 ปีที่แล้ว +51

      ​@@romajimamulo I'm almost certain it's because of the shaky text too, since it shakes in a square (not a circle) so the 2 calls are X and Y. The text is calling that RNG even if the shake distance is zero (default), since there's no real reason NOT to, it doesn't cause slowdown or anything.
      If it was for the sound effects, then that would only call RNG when the character first appears, not every frame.

  • @GreyRush
    @GreyRush 4 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    I
    I think i'd like to go back my the diagnostics of an A press
    this seems too advanced for me

  • @emmbeesea
    @emmbeesea 5 ปีที่แล้ว +216

    It turns out RNJesus is a reverse engineer. Amazing stuff Malleo!
    Looking forward to hearing you at SGDQ!

    • @Kitsune_Chara_CG
      @Kitsune_Chara_CG 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      My Mom: Games Arent Technical * Me: *Shows her rhis vid*

  • @moth.monster
    @moth.monster 5 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    "If you pause for just the right amount of time and jump three times"

  • @Bad-Sir
    @Bad-Sir 4 ปีที่แล้ว +117

    Brb, gonna go manipulate RNG to win the lottery

    • @vermont005050
      @vermont005050 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      how's it going?

    • @orngjce223
      @orngjce223 4 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      But Happy Lucky Lottery is a scam

    • @Kitsune_Chara_CG
      @Kitsune_Chara_CG 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Well by wastinf 1 Second i mainupalted the Rng algorithm and got 6 infinity stones

  • @kepler6873
    @kepler6873 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    I love how the music changes over the video as you guys got closer to the solution. Starting with creepy, archaic, and kinda hopeless (and puzzle-y from where in the game the music was from) to triumphant and victorious. 10/10 math and 10/10 music choice

  • @WannabeMarysue
    @WannabeMarysue 4 ปีที่แล้ว +47

    When I first became a fan of TAS videos, it was the insane shit like this which got me hooked. I remember spending hours reading TAS submission notes, as TAS runs got more complicated over the years, and it was half the fun of a TAS for a fan like me. It's wild to see these explainations Pivot To Video, but I'm so glad they have. With the popularity of Very Specific Videos nowadays, I hope more people get sucked into these explainations. TTYD TAS hype.

    • @SuperM789
      @SuperM789 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      eww go away commie

  • @trumpeterjen
    @trumpeterjen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +125

    "Is it easy to get into speedrunning?"
    "Well...depends. What did you major in?"
    "Math."
    "It's a start, I guess...read up on coding first."

    • @jwhite5008
      @jwhite5008 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Coding and math are two different things, and both are required for this.
      Software devs know a bit of math and most mathematicians nowadays probably know basic coding, but it often takes a collab to do things like this.
      And don't forget in-depth game knowledge which is also a valuable asset here.

    • @trumpeterjen
      @trumpeterjen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@jwhite5008
      The joke
      __________________________
      Your head

    • @dddmemaybe
      @dddmemaybe 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@jwhite5008 bro he is making a scenario as a joke, also math and coding are extremely synergistic with each other for constructing and interpreting possibilities. It's like putting 5 ranks in bluff to get better at diplomacy in dnd.

    • @jwhite5008
      @jwhite5008 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @TrumpeterJen That looked much less of a joke than you being uneducated. I didn't want to say it that way and tried to explain instead. Sorry about that
      @dddmemaybe well, kind of like that but it depends (I'm a software dev)

    • @trumpeterjen
      @trumpeterjen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@jwhite5008 No worries. It's hard to tell on the internet.

  • @Eragon812I
    @Eragon812I 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    I'm getting "watch for rolling rocks in 0.5 A presses" flashbacks

    • @otesunki
      @otesunki 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      *0.5

    • @TheArnoldification
      @TheArnoldification 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      To this day I still don't understand scuttlebug transportation

  • @BobberWCC
    @BobberWCC 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Wasn't expecting geometric series in a Paper Mario video

    • @jebronlames987
      @jebronlames987 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      That ain’t what geometry is, chief.

  • @MrGOOMBAGUY
    @MrGOOMBAGUY 4 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    Me: Expects a 10 minute video.
    Me: Sees that the video is 39 minutes.
    Me: A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

  • @PointsofData
    @PointsofData 4 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    Can we give a quick round of applause for Nintendo's programmers? Imagine the work needed to make sure your game doesnt shit itself if someone figures out how to sequence break this hard. And all those percentages for one item. Jesus Christ.
    You did good too Mr. Mathematics, deconstructing and testing it. It just makes me realize how awful Nintendo games could be in lesser, more apathetic hands.

    • @luginess0
      @luginess0 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks Intelligent systems

  • @TCO118
    @TCO118 4 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Watching this video puts into perspective how much effort is put into a TAS, it's mind blowing. Great video and I hope you keep it up!

    • @sophiefilo16
      @sophiefilo16 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah, it really blows a hole in the stereotype that people who play video games all the time aren't smart...

  • @No-Me3
    @No-Me3 4 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    Is it bad that I don't want to watch the progress streams because I enjoy being surprised by all the cool tricks when it's complete?

    • @notsogreatsword1607
      @notsogreatsword1607 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      The progress streams have surprises of their own but i see what you mean

    • @JoNarDLoLz
      @JoNarDLoLz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Being more involve and knowing what they're trying to do gives the progress streams more magic to it, especially when the streamer is interactive with chat and is takes idea from it. People brainstorming to achieve a certain goal is really a nice thing to watch (just like twitchplayspokemon lol)

    • @Anafyral666
      @Anafyral666 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Watch VODs if they exist

  • @orngjce223
    @orngjce223 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    I know a married couple. One is a huge fan of TTYD, and knows some rudiments of practical coding. The other is a huge fan of the number theory/conceptual/algorithmic sort of coding. So I sent them this, and they had a great time watching it together.

  • @maskofthedragon
    @maskofthedragon 4 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    First 2 Paper Mario games are the most BIG BRAIN games in existence

  • @sophiefilo16
    @sophiefilo16 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    If only my Finite Mathematics class were about Paper Mario instead. Maybe then, I'd actually understand it...

  • @sheauwn6974
    @sheauwn6974 4 ปีที่แล้ว +122

    Is it considered cheating if I throw my Gamecube against the wall, causing a RNG bit to flip in my favor?

    • @renakunisaki
      @renakunisaki 4 ปีที่แล้ว +58

      That's hardware manipulation, though if you can control it that precisely, I'd be very impressed!

    • @geotalemobile2157
      @geotalemobile2157 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

      Yes. This is completely speedrun allowed. Just make sure that you reset the game when starting the run XD

    • @Abdega
      @Abdega 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Completely valid and expected behavior

    • @PointsofData
      @PointsofData 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      I mean, I wouldn't call it a viable strat, but if it works more power to you.

    • @romajimamulo
      @romajimamulo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      That seems like it ... Wouldn't work

  • @wompastompa3692
    @wompastompa3692 4 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    23:32
    I use exactly that to tell me how many cookies I'll need to buy n buildings in Cookie Clicker.

  • @IAmGpro
    @IAmGpro 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    People don't appreciate the nitty and gritty that gets put into the makings of TASes and speedrunning in general NEARLY as much as they should. This was an absolute miracle and I can't hide my admiration for the effort put into this. You guys are fucking legends

  • @Yamayamauchiman
    @Yamayamauchiman 4 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    The probability of me understanding this is about 0.

    • @icelingbolt
      @icelingbolt 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      0 out of what
      0%? 0 out of >0? Probability of a number is meaningless without something to compare it to, even if its 0

    • @animowany111
      @animowany111 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Iceling bolt - You're actually wrong here, probability is defined as a value in the range between 0 and 1, and even then, regardless of what potential unit we would use 'about 0' is the same anyway.

  • @SportsGaming-ll3ru
    @SportsGaming-ll3ru 5 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Can’t wait to hear from you at sgdq

  • @millicentflusher
    @millicentflusher 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    i think this is a subtle reminder for me to keep learning math cuz i only got this by a small margin lol

  • @silverboxxer
    @silverboxxer 5 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Thank you Malleo for this video. I really love this probability stuff, and all the other math is cool to see being used in the TAS. Great stuff!
    btw at 23:57 you say "All over 1 over a" but you meant "All over 1 minus a".

  • @BBSplat
    @BBSplat 5 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    jdaster is a cool dude.
    Go play the TTYD Shufflizer mod he made, it's a total blast

    • @EmmyEntropy2000
      @EmmyEntropy2000 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I love Jdaster. Do you watch koop or fatguy as well?

    • @chesphendshil8270
      @chesphendshil8270 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      the `NO U` badge as ur pfp lol

  • @LiEnby
    @LiEnby 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    next video: "How i used RNG Manipulation on the lottery to win every time"

  • @worldsboss
    @worldsboss 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    This is nothing short of amazing. The TAS community is lucky to have you, and I cannot wait to see your MKWii commentary at SGDQ 😁

  • @connorolding9870
    @connorolding9870 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    nice! I definitely learned a thing or two, and the work that goes into TASes is just as cool as the runs themselves.
    okay, trivia time: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask both use an LCG (the a*x+b equation) as an RNG as well, so after adjusting the constants (a=1664525, b=1013904223), those scripts should also be applicable to these games, and surely others (Animal Crossing?). however, every time a new scene is loaded (Link goes through an entrance), these games directly set the RNG seed to the cycle counter of the main processor, so this form of RNG manipulation is limited to within scenes.

  • @lemon3389
    @lemon3389 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    TASers, speedrunners and the entire community behind it are the most loyal fans there is for a game.
    Change my mind

    • @zememerr2329
      @zememerr2329 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      tank mykonian there’s always the Lore masters

    • @LilacMonarch
      @LilacMonarch 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      They are the most familiar with the design of the game, to be sure. But other aspects such as the story and lore not so much

    • @RichConnerGMN
      @RichConnerGMN 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@LilacMonarch i """speedrun""" undertale and i watched game theory one time, so i win

  • @Lunascaped
    @Lunascaped 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    2:38
    "I must go, my people need me"

  • @TmsFin
    @TmsFin 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm supposed to be sleeping and getting up in 4 hours to go to work, instead I watched this whole thing. Understood nothing but the amount of dedication you fellows have is out of this world.

  • @TheOobo
    @TheOobo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    You and stryder make some of the best glitch explanations on the internet, keep it up!

  • @Shadowgenisis
    @Shadowgenisis 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I wholly appreciate how much effort went into not only this video, but the RNG reverse-engineering overall for the sake of simply going fast. Massive props to everyone involved, and an additional thank you to you for making this video and bringing to light the complexity of TAS work :)

  • @thealientree3821
    @thealientree3821 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Manipulating luck crashes Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door.

  • @hobbyboundcat6713
    @hobbyboundcat6713 5 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    so not RTA viable i assume?

    • @julymorris6367
      @julymorris6367 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      I mean, TECHNICALLY it's possible if you have frame perfect inputs in a god run but idk

    • @discountchocolate4577
      @discountchocolate4577 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      If it's early enough in the run, a RTA-viable setup might be discovered eventually. It's been done in other RPG speedgames like Pokemon, Earthbound, and Dragon Quest.

    • @imaginaryboy2000
      @imaginaryboy2000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@discountchocolate4577 All games with simple and predictable RNG. RNG that usually doesn't change that much per frame if at all. The problem with using RNG manipulation for 3D games is that 3D games use RNG way more, making it impossible to manipulate properly without identical frame-perfect, pixel-perfect and angle-perfect movement for an extended period of time.

    • @discountchocolate4577
      @discountchocolate4577 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@imaginaryboy2000 Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The recent history of speed tech has made me a bit too optimistic about what's possible.

  • @KratosAurionPlays
    @KratosAurionPlays 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The things people do to shave off a few seconds/minutes in a speed run. It's really neat you can manipulate something like this honestly XD

  • @s.e.e.smembermakoto805
    @s.e.e.smembermakoto805 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Me, before watching this video: I wish my RNG would improve, this boss is tough.
    Me after: *This is big brain time*

  • @mintyfresh1322
    @mintyfresh1322 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can’t wait for this tas. Really is incredible how much work you guys put into it, I’m glad that I can see the result and some of the process.

  • @F_L_U_X
    @F_L_U_X 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I apprecite you and your buddies' work and thank you for the entertainment!

  • @tomjackal5708
    @tomjackal5708 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm in love with all this crazy number theory, rng investigation, and coding to save five seconds in a ttyd tas
    (yes i know the route as a whole is like half a minute faster but this is still really amazing and i love it)

  • @retenh3932
    @retenh3932 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Jesus Christ, this video is awesome. Love this channel, your style of making content is amazing, and you’ve done many great things for this community. Keep up the good work!

  • @SnowflakeVee
    @SnowflakeVee 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've never even played this game and have no idea why this was even recommended to me
    but damn
    this is actually insane
    props to you three for getting this figured :)

  • @Zm4rf
    @Zm4rf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Holy crap you weren't kidding when you said this video was taking a lot of time 40 minutes!!! Also explains why I didn't understand wtf was going on in the moment

    • @Zm4rf
      @Zm4rf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      wtf 2:50 you can jump into the background?!

  • @TOSkwar22
    @TOSkwar22 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Holy crap man. This is a fantastic video, I gotta say, if for no other reason than it shows how much effort can go into the most easily missed moments in a TAS. I love the concept of a TAS- pushing the game in ways that, no matter how lucky or skilled you are, no human runner could realistically be expected to pull off. But beyond that, as I see more and more often, it's also a championing of human effort. First, there's you, the guy who puts together the TAS. Then, there's the dozens of people who discovered every glitch you use to skip chapters and such. There's the guys who made the programs letting you manipulate the game with such fine controls. There's the guys who made the scripting engines that let you make quick codes to do brute-force testing. There's the guys who you chatted with in the making of this video to put together this thing here, that thing there, the value of this, the value of that, and eventually put it ALL together into one monumental run where everything falls away and there's just this perfect, impossible run. Days, weeks, or months of work can go into three seconds of gameplay. It's beyond astounding, and I love every bit of it.

  • @aliaspseudonym525
    @aliaspseudonym525 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I didn't understand half the maths in this, but I think I understood enough. I love long, in-depth videos like this! Thanks so much for uploading!
    Also, now that you can track & manage RNG, will there be more consequences to TTYD beyond 2 Mega Rushes?

  • @masonwells990
    @masonwells990 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was there for most of the farm! That was such a hype moment and one I saw live which is rare, thanks for the huge opportunity

  • @pokejacob123
    @pokejacob123 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I didn't understand most of this, but it was still really interesting! Keep up these cool videos bro!

  • @InvalidOS
    @InvalidOS 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is incredible. Can’t wait to see the complete TAS.

  • @ocarinaot452
    @ocarinaot452 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I now have mad respect for game programmers and tas runners for being gods of the computer

  • @versutus2699
    @versutus2699 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your video reminded me that math is actually something I can look forward to learning about. Amazing stuff as always Malleo

  • @LucianDevine
    @LucianDevine 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    When you understand how the RNG works in a game, and have a reliable means to manipulate it, the sky is the limits, especially for a TAS run where human error is not a factor.

  • @Beateau
    @Beateau 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's amazing how excited you get over shaving seconds off a tasrun, and I absolutely love it.

  • @MarshMarlowXD
    @MarshMarlowXD 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Didn't think this was going to be how I was spending my night, but holy am I glad I sat down and watched this.

  • @golderzoa
    @golderzoa 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    this whole class sounded like RAW anime w/o subs i'm so confused i can't understand anything that all those numbers and letters said but whatever it means i'm glad it worked out.

  • @TimepieceMaster
    @TimepieceMaster ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Something to note about text calling RNG. Everyone seems to be operating under the assumption that it must be because text the text rendering function requires some random element, but another thing it could also be is simply to keep things even more random. With a linear congruential generator, one of the things you have to be careful about is that when using one, the gambler's fallacy is true since all possible RNG values you can get are on a cycle that starts at the initial RNG seed.
    Suppose you want a particular RNG value that is on the cycle. If the LCG is good enough, it's not easy for a casual observer (e.g. a casual player) to know where in the cycle that RNG value will be. However, what is true is that as you progress along the cycle not getting the RNG value you want, you know that your chance of getting the desired RNG value sometime soon increases, since you cannot get the same RNG value twice until you've looped around in the cycle. You're getting new RNG values each time and so by process of elimination eventually the desired RNG value will be the only one that can be picked as the next RNG value.
    However, this flaw is really only useful if RNG advances in a reliable and predictable way to the casual observer. To avoid this flaw, you want the calling of the RNG function to be highly erratic. That is, you want when it is called and how often it is called to be very hard to manipulate. And what happens to be true about text in this game? How many text characters are on screen in any given frame can vary quite a bit, and how many frames you keep text on screen is something that's virtually impossible for a human player to control reliably. This will also help to prevent human-possible RNG manipulation in general, not just the gambler's fallacy issue.
    While it is possible that some aspects of text rendering, such as certain text effects, really do require randomness, it would not surprise me at all if making RNG hard to manipulate was also a motivating factor, especially in instances where there is obviously no random element to the text, such as when it is displayed in menus.

  • @smushycows2334
    @smushycows2334 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You guys are amazing. Not only with the math but also with the coding. Very nice work

  • @LegendBegins
    @LegendBegins 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Top notch. These kinds of finds are incredible.

  • @Veginite
    @Veginite 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Unbelievable work, nothing else can be said. Hats off to you all.

  • @tlozfreak888
    @tlozfreak888 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    And i thought i'd never see derivations again after school...
    Really makes me wonder if i ever asked my teacher "am i ever gonna use this in real life?"

  • @jessicak2451
    @jessicak2451 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    My name is Jeff crashes Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

  • @TheRadFire
    @TheRadFire 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really liked the selection of music you used

  • @virtualchimera
    @virtualchimera 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome teamwork to make this happen!

  • @Hectorlph
    @Hectorlph 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What an awesome story and collaborative effort! Can't wait until there is a non-tas strategy for manipulating RNG next, ha ha.

  • @matthewbolan8154
    @matthewbolan8154 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Heh, the minecraft community has been doing stuff similar to this for a while now. (Our RNG is a 48 bit linear congruential generator). I don't have time to watch your entire video atm, so sorry if I am telling you what you already know, but was curious if you guys noticed the applications lattice reduction algorithms have to the reversal process. (in brief, about 10 months ago I noticed, after moving a point to the origin, the vectors ,,,..., form a basis for a lattice containing all n-tuples of possible consecutive seeds. After applying your favorite lattice reduction algorithm, simply iterating over integer linear combinations of these vectors near the region where your seed tuple must lie is often sufficient.) In minecraft, we have used this to find rare seeds (1/trillion in some cases), and more recently obtain a bedrock item by manipulating a certain 1/3000 chance in a process virtually identical to what you do here. Of course, since your LCG is only 32 bits, this might be overkill.

    • @rocketrelm1125
      @rocketrelm1125 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I don't know any of the people involved, but from the sounds of what you say it might have *been* one of the Minecraft people with those kinds of calculations that he talked to this about and got the formula from to apply to TTYD.

    • @coldcoffeegaming2798
      @coldcoffeegaming2798 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jesse what the fuck are you saying?

    • @deviousdiesel8231
      @deviousdiesel8231 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bro did you just minecraft-highroad a TTYD TASer?

    • @matthewbolan8154
      @matthewbolan8154 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@deviousdiesel8231 I mean the math is math regardless of the game it's being done for.

  • @PhoenixPalmer88
    @PhoenixPalmer88 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I finally have TTYD running on my phone, so my free time has been really enjoyable lately :D

    • @andrewfitzgerald7940
      @andrewfitzgerald7940 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      PhoenixPalmer how did you do that?

    • @PhoenixPalmer88
      @PhoenixPalmer88 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@andrewfitzgerald7940 Dolphin Emulator on Android. Make sure it's the mmj version or it wont be able to do bounding box calculations (which a lot of ttyd and paper Mario in general uses) still lags in some places but on my S10+ it's a blast

    • @Darisprites
      @Darisprites 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wha? Doesn't your phone need to be 64 bit for that?

    • @PhoenixPalmer88
      @PhoenixPalmer88 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Dari I have no idea. I looked for a way to run it on my iPad and found it wasn’t possible because iOS isn’t 64 bit, so you’re correct. I guess Android is 64 bit

    • @Nightcaat
      @Nightcaat 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      But iOS _is_ 64-bit and has been since iOS 7 on the iPhone 5S. I’m pretty sure the reason why Dolphin isn’t on iOS is due to limitations.

  • @Crowald
    @Crowald 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This makes me appreciate shit that happens by sheer unmanipulated chance much more, and stuff that occurs via manipulated chance WAY more.

  • @Wolfphototech
    @Wolfphototech 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is simply amazing .
    Tas speed runners are truly masters of the art of making playing a video game even a greater waste of time ( by oddly playing slower then faster ) .

  • @cachotognax3600
    @cachotognax3600 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is why I love TAS'es, you can see it and it's pretty much spectacular yeah, but the story behind them can be insane

  • @Monody512
    @Monody512 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I wonder if displaying text calls RNG every frame because of jiggle…
    Some text in Paper Mario jiggles around randomly, so normal non-jiggling text might just have a jiggle scale of 0.

    • @romajimamulo
      @romajimamulo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's something I mentioned in the reply to the comment on it possibly being text sound that plays randomly pitched audio

  • @edwardivandeveloper
    @edwardivandeveloper 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I just want to comment on how Paper Mario Speedruns should be a degree option for college.

  • @ItsZorroDood
    @ItsZorroDood 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "I didn't feel happy." -> freaks out on cam

  • @WhiteBasilisk22
    @WhiteBasilisk22 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    13:23 "Oh my God the video is not even half way over yet! Guess I'll order some takeout."

  • @Ender_Onryo
    @Ender_Onryo 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ngl I would love for 'When Luck Just Isn't Enough' to be a full series, going over the trails and tribulations speedrunners and tassers have to overcome in various games to get RNGsus to submit to their will.

  • @colossaldonut5190
    @colossaldonut5190 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    We could be colonising Mars. But instead, we want to beat this game very fast by saving 3 seconds.

  • @Jorge-bt9ez
    @Jorge-bt9ez 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Can't wait to see this in the next WR

  • @shnoop6
    @shnoop6 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    bruh my brain is not big enough for this
    you guys are sick though thanks for the entertainment

  • @saiucrozier
    @saiucrozier 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is awesome! I'm so hype for this tas

  • @StepBaum
    @StepBaum 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    To be honest,because of my lack in knowledge of calculus i didnt understand the whole thing but like 95% of it which is pretty good. this seems crazy hard to me. Awesome job!

  • @frostbreath1480
    @frostbreath1480 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man, I thought learning about parallel universes was tough, but trying to understand this video really hurts my head.

    • @brownie3454
      @brownie3454 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      it's all just probability dude

  • @GrantDavis
    @GrantDavis 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Not gonna lie, getting some PTSD from Discrete Math class.

  • @DoesMahBlockLookBig
    @DoesMahBlockLookBig 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Once I take number theory, i’ll be sure to use this video as study material

  • @arcanus7324
    @arcanus7324 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is amazingly cool that the rng was reverse engineered like this and I remember watching the stream back when you were brute forcing rng for fence skip and wondering whether something like this would be at all possible for this game or if the rng system was just too complex.
    That leads me to wonder, is it possible to use this reverse engineering method of finding the right rng at other points in the run where brute force and test methods were used in order to possibly waste less frames getting the desired rng or to get slightly more optimal rng than was achieved?
    Not that you will go back and do that in this TAS but maybe in the next TTYD TAS if/when that ever occurs.

  • @worthplayingfor2197
    @worthplayingfor2197 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    about to watch the video - i hope u mention HOW LONG we spent trying to get it before reverse engineering RNG.

  • @Wizzkidwas
    @Wizzkidwas 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I immediately recognised the geometric sequence and I'm now very thankful for my A-Level in Maths

  • @hyper-thermal
    @hyper-thermal 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Godly video. Really makes me want to get around to making a TAS of a specific, obscure game. There’s Dreamcast emulators for that, right?
    Also, Infinity War jokes about the odds and Endgame jokes about JDAster holding up his finger

  • @jackgreen7342
    @jackgreen7342 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey malleo i really liked ur stream, and im really glad u answered some of my questions! :) can't wait for the new TAS TTYD! -tootiefruty