Nintendo 64 emulation on the Switch is getting better.... | MVG
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Nintendo released update 1.2.0 to the Switch Online Expansion pack service for Nintendo 64. In this episode we take a closer look at some of the improvements that were made, and what still needs to be addressed.
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#NSO #NintendoSwitch #Nintendo64 - เกม
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With Majora’s Mask coming in February, it will be the ultimate test for the emulator, since Majora uses fog heavily and the game had a rocky history with official emulators, it will be interesting to see how it runs on the NSO emulator.
That game currently has a problem with Motion Blur effects, which is not reproducing them and causes a black screen in the Intro and elsewhere.
@@evancito7725 what’s not reproducing the effects?
Could you elaborate?
I can crash MM on the GC version by slapping the stone behind the clock tower a bunch. It caused screen burn in and I had to get a new tv. Video games are fantastic
A good game to test LLE is World Driver Championship, with its custom microcode usage. I agree some Zelda effects are difficult to emulate too, Project64 story docet...
It's all fun and games until they add Rogue Squadron. Their emulator would die screaming haha
7:55 “there are still bugs” - bug crashing in the Rareware logo in the background. Perfect!
Buzzbomb. I used to think that was a shot at Sparx from Sypro the Dragon, but no Banjo Predates it buy a few months.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I wonder if that's actually the intended reference... Knowing RARE. LOL
A bug causing a crash! Never thought about that. Lmfao
Haaa!!! Great observation.
@@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli Unless The DK Barn (The Dev team) saw Spyro at like a showcase or something I highly doubt its a reference because banjo predetated it buy a few months. And even then, DKC 2 had some similar looking game dragonfly enemies, except they we're blue.
I'm genuinely surprised they made any improvements.
Why? You talk as if Nintendo release games/software and then thats it, never fix bugs or release updates.
@@Emexrulsier Because Nintendo's handling of their emulated back catalog has been extremely lazy basically since Virtual Console was introduced.
@@koerel maybe they dont want to invest too much time and resources into old stuff that if ppl really cared about can get a better experience with the likes of snes9x, ultrahle, cemu, mupen64 etc etc using a pc, raspberry pi or many consoles including the switch.
@@Emexrulsier So do you think Nintendo WANT you to download all their roms for free and play them on non-Nintendo products and just take money from people they are ripping off with an overpriced buggy service? interesting...
@@Emexrulsier I really can't understand this logic, it feels like you think Nintendo would be giving up their content cause "people can just emulate themselves if they want" instead of charging for it...
The House of Skulltula looks like it’s still the same issue with the fog rendering, rather than lighting.
The “darkness” of the room in the original game appears to have been faked by using a black fog effect rather than anything to do with lights.
So hopefully that will get fixed as part of a sweeping change to fog that restores the artistic intent of the Water Temple Miniboss Room.
This was my first thought as well. I wouldn't call it "faked" though, as black fog gives an entirely different feel than just low lighting would have, which makes it seem intentional.
@@jckf Fair enough - it was certainly intentional - but I don't mean anything negative by using the word "faked".
What fascinates me most about real-time graphics over its offline contemporaries is all of the clever shortcuts that developers approximate the real world (or their own artistic licence) with in ingenious ways.
@@SirCalalot True, tricks like that are what separate a senior developer from a junior developer x)
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Even in this video, you can see the "darkness" receding when Link moves forward in the footage from the original hardware.
To me it looks like it's baked shadows.
It's crazy that in 2022 these older games are running like crap on current hardware but they were running fine on the wii and gamecube
i know right? you would think with tech becoming better that these games could have no problem on the modern system due to their age. i mean ffs a freaking toaster can run project64 and emulate OOT and MM no problem roflmao
im almost wondering if nintendo needs to hire the project 64 guys. they been doing it for over a decade now and are exceedingly good at it. to my knowledge only games they have failed to be able to support and render properly are dk64 and star wars rogue sqaudron/battle for naboo.
My test for OOT was to see if I can quickly mash the Ocarina inputs again without anything being missed and thankfully, yes I can again.
It's good to hear, not that it shocks me. Ever since they fixed something as minor as visible developer cubes in Mario Sunshine, it told me that someone in the team at NERD, actually cares.
I think the best n64 emulator nintendo has put out TO DATE has no input lag and it is just how the game is
@@onlypuppy7 I try to always remember that. Some games are just like that, especially in that era. Like I really wasn't sure when I tried Banjo but I'm not hearing any fuss so assume it's fine.
@@theshadowdirector Nope, Banjo has problems as well. It has lag in many areas that the original didn't, although it also reduces lag in areas that the original game did have. It's a mixed bag.
its high time nintendo realizes the potential in their retro games. for years they have been protective asf over the IPs without anyway for us to support/buy said IPs than wanted to get mad whenever we would acquire them through less than scrupulous means. their absolute "im gonna do MY thing i dont give a shit about YOUR thing" attitude for years left me pretty bitter towards them and i havent picked up a nintendo product since the gamecube was replaced by the WII. their NSO service along with botw made me want to get a switch and through their nso service, the updates and patches to it, the quality of gameplay of modern games, the portability and much better motion controls than that of the wii, nintendo really does seem like theyre finally starting to get with the program and I gotta say im impressed. i use to be a huge nintendo person growing up. as mentioned about my gamecube i had that until around '08 when i switched to sony ps2 and been bouncing with xbox and playstation ever since without even paying nintendo a second thought. the switch is quickly reminding me why i loved nintendo so much in first place.
Nintendo needs one major change in NSO. Make the cost of the expansion pack actually affordable
That will never happen, Nintendo never lowers their prices, even if they should.
I wouldn't say $60-80 a year is unaffordable, but it's certainly not a good value.
The quality and breadth of Nintendo's offerings for that annual cost are just not up to where they need to be to justify the price tag.
I love how fair you are. Not just constant negativity to get attention. This channel is very unique and it’s been a great, positive distraction during tough times
His channel is very cool.
thanks - i think if they fix all the issues it could be incredible value
I agree. And he also doesn't talk like an autistic five year old to get attention. This channel is quality and will survive over time.
@@ModernVintageGamer incredible value. I would rather step back a notch and say good value. Don't forget it's only for a 12 month offer. No other options. For me, it is still a little scummy to lock this feature behind a year subscription.
Dude is cool.. I seen him get kinda upset one time and it was clearly justified.. I think when Sony or Microsoft dropped the ball with their consoles.. but other than that MVG is a good dude.. I can tell good people and he's one of them..
The stutters in banjo are prob related to the audio clock. I remember on PC emulators you have to enable “sync game to audio” to make it not stutter every every handful of seconds
You’d think Nintendo could handle that 🤔
@@MaxOakland In theory they could handle that but not all the obvious issues mentioned in the video that never happen on fan emulators? At this point I'm really starting to doubt the competency of the NSO team and what to believe or not.
These guys probably are applying a blanket strategy from game to game without a whole lot of testing unfortunately. What fans find, hired devs are missing. Maybe a lack of passion for the project? Lack of funding maybe.
@@Slurpee_Burger i wouldn't think it's an issue with passion considering the NES and SNES emulators are insanely good (and ive heard Genesis is pretty decent too), it's probably the combination of funding and Nintendo pushing the release schedule way too fast to justify their expansion pack upcharge. The building blocks for a decent emulator are here, it just needed way more time in the oven before it was shoved out to prod
@@Brixster its more likely that they are being rushed so they don't have the time to produce something even ok
if i paid ~40$ (hyperbolic) for essentially n64 roms, i'd hope the emu would be >~90%
@@keinarhya7709 go eat salt
I would never suggest paying for roms unless you bought hardware to dump roms
@@DUDEBroHey Don't bother to insult a bot.
$40 a year to rent these roms. You can't even buy these roms. You can only rent them from Nintendo from the rest of your life. Nintendo supports the World Economic Forum's idea for the world:
YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY.
@@sygos @Nikko A. FORGET NSO. Here's what you do instead:
Instead of paying 50$ for a mediocre emulation service, take that 50$ and buy a good bluetooth controller. (I suggest the 8-bitdo pro 2 or a switch pro-controller).
Then download as many free emulators and roms on your phone, pair the bluetooth controller with your phone and BAM!
Portable, higher quality emulation for the same price as the NSO service.
I’m glad that Nintendo is fixing their N64 emulation, but I’m still not buying their expansion service yet. It’s still not justified with their high subscription costs.
Yeah you only get what like 10 games? Why couldn’t they have just included like 50. It makes me mad as well.
I can see that if you don't play online titles and don't have 7 friends to share a family plan with.
@@willissudweeks1050 I wish they had more N64 games, but second and third party games have high license costs, it’s going to be hard for Nintendo to get that many N64 games.
@@MrFaranox online multiplayer is the only reason to get the premium subscription and especially with sharing it with several friends.
As someone who plays on original hardware for classic games I really am hoping the industry clues in on high quality accurate emulation. When I play on original hardware and equipment like consumer tube TV, it is much easier to remember why we thought these games were stunning when they first came out. These NSO emulation issues underscore how just one or two visual bugs can cut the legs out from under a visual presentation. It becomes even more complicated when you start to talk about original assets not being designed for HD resolutions. The game's presentations often only worked at the resolutions they shipped with, on tube TVs that were common at the time.
All that being said, what I do as a classic game hobbyist is outrageously impractical for 99% of gamers. Quality consumer tube TVs that have survived the last few decades are hard to come by, and greatly inconvenient to include in your setup if your a normal gamer. Not to mention having stacks and stacks of original consoles with original controllers. I hope that the industry can find the money in these classic games so we can get these developers taking emulation seriously. I'm not just thinking about today, but fast forward 40 years when all of the consoles I own today have stopped working. I still want to have access to highly accurate versions of these games.
@Code Turtle Must hurt beeing you.
@@PatchworxStudios Well, he's not wrong? Microsoft is definitely superior if it comes to supporting backwards compatibility through emulation. In some cases they actually just release a ported executable. Sony did alright with PS2 emulation in the early PS3 days, but it was then cut to save costs. Afaik, at least on the PS2, PS1 support wasn't actual emulation - rather a dedicated chip. Their PS1 emulation on PS3/PSP/VITA/PS4 is pretty good all things considered.
CRT TVs are great. I love the zero input lag and the picture quality.
"Good job Nintendo, keep up the good work" is something you almost NEVER hear these days...
A company is like a kid
" When whe says good job continue like that " he will gonna make things better 👍
lol wut? switch shills have been saying this daily
are you hiding under a rock or something? NSO is the only thing i hear get panned by a bunch of angry youtube commenters.
My wife’s boyfriend won’t let me see that
@@owenmcgrath3696 The 3D All-Stars collection as well, another thing that was panned by gamers.
Nice seeing the fixes that are actually being implemented! Here's to also hoping they'll continue to add games regularly as well, it's been nice getting an extra game per month on the service.
This is not something to be celebrated poor PAID n64 emulation in 2022 is NEVER ACCEPTABLE
what extra game per month? we just getting One game a month 😐
Honestly, charging nearly the same price as Xbox Live Gold and PlayStation Plus, with only giving us 38 N64 games out of 393, and given to us one per month (with emulation issues no less), is just disgraceful and literally no one should be paying this much money for such a lackluster service.
We don't even have 100 NES or SNES games on NSO, which is baffling as those libraries are WAY bigger than the N64's.
lmao its your damn own fault for paying for it. Its the stupidest subscription model ever. oh well nintedogs fans will still gonna buy it anyways
Here's the thing though... Contrary to this video's claims this has nothing to do with Nintendo. The emulation is retroarch, and retroarch is getting better emulating other emulators. Nintendo is just taking credit for doing a retroarch update.
The only thing that still concerns me is the price. it's still way too expensive.
Wait til theres more games i spose. For me paper mario, mario kart/tennis and banjo are worth for me. Hyped for oot and majoras mask (pls dont mess it up!!).
@@calvinbaxter7151 Still too expensive for an N64 emulator.
@@calvinbaxter7151 keeps your hope down. on better emulators majoras mask had issues which made it worse than orig hardware and this was on an emulator which ran OOT really well to the point it does not feel like emulation. if they are struggling with OOT , mask is going to be an issue.
@@calvinbaxter7151 Just download your own emulator. ;)
@AzafuseYugi They need to add a lot more N64 games. Then it wouldn't be so expensive as it is already.
Maybe next time, instead of getting better have it BE BETTER on DAY 1.
Also, don't charge people $50 for broken, half assed emulation that you'll "fix" at your convenience.
Stop buying their shit, it's that simple.
@@efuuu Can't, the games are too good bro.
@@Naruxos07 I mean, yeah. And you know what else is good? Other better emulators that runs them better with other upgrades.
@@Deliveredmean42 welp what if people don't have a PC heh?
It's $30 as an optional expansion to the $20 base NSO annual plan. If you're going to be angry, at least don't present misinformation about the cost of the service.
The leap in quality your video quality has taken over the past year is insane
appreciated. thank you!
Agreed! Those close up takes of you playing handheld mode are gorgeous.
It is good you deliver news on not just stuff that doesn't do well, but also when it gets better later on. Both are equally important things to bring out.
I'm all for giving props when they're due, but it's still ludicrous that a service that more than doubles the standard NSO price would launch with these obvious issues. The reason they even bothered to fix some of the issues is because there was so much coverage of them and it was giving them bad PR for the service, if nobody had called them out they wouldn't have spent any additional resources to fix this.
The reality is that none of these issues should have existed in the first place. They are Nintendo, not homebrew devs struggling with the challenges of reverse engineering in virtual darkness. I'm impressed with homebrew emulation warts and all, but official emulation should be spot-on, day one or not be released. It's embarrassing, and not worth paying for IMO.
@@tappersreviews4677 Yep, and they still haven't addressed all the issues. Even after the relative media shitstorm around the pricing/quality of the service they still have emulation issues in a major, highly-acclaimed, first-party title. That's how much modern Nintendo respects their legacy.
@@yellowblanka6058 They know people will buy it so they dont give a damn. Nintendo pulled a cyberpunk on their consumers and got away with it
@@tappersreviews4677 Nintendo didn't even know how to capture its own gameplay years after Xbox and Sony already were 😂
@@Chaoskae except CyberPunk was forced to be released by the big wigs while the people actually developing the game pleaded not to, they asked for more time and were told no.
Nintendo doesn't have anyone telling them to make these bad decisions, they're the ones calling the shots
Great coverage without the clickbait title - this is what we're all here for
5:20 I'm fairly certain that the "lighting" issue in the Skultula house is just another casualty of the fog rendering issue. Objects that are close to the screen are as bright as they should be *at close distance*, but objects aren't fading into a dark purple fog as they get further away, like they do in the original N64 release.
Still a tiny step forward in my opinion. At least Nintendo opened their eyes for once. My only question now is whether they'll finally fix SM64's chopped up HUD.
WDYM?
@@mr.junior7880 Sometimes when starting SM64 the hud bugs out and is a graphical mess on NSO
Input lag is the biggest issue, and it has been an issue on emulation since forever. The "masterpieces" in Super Smash Bros. Brawl had dreadful input lag making them unplayable. Mario Kart 64 on the Wii Virtual Console had very noticable input lag. Several of the Mega Man games in Mega Man Legacy had bad input lag.
Different styles of graphics you get used to, but if the game feels sluggish in respone, you never get used to that.
@@theakiwar9118 Oh OK, thanks.
Nintendo got tired of the backlash.. They had no choice.. If people is going to play those extreme prices I want all those games in HD and wide screen.. If they went back and fixed the water issues in Zelda Nintendo could easily update most of their games while still keeping the feel of the same games..
As much as I like to see these fixes, the service is still way too much money for what they're offering, it'll be a very very long time at this rate before it's even close to the value they're charging for the N64 games. Mind you, these aren't games you own, they are just games you're renting for the time being, which pretty much inherently makes this worse than the Virtual Console we had on the Wii over a decade ago. There's also the fact that their online service by itself is just garbage, no two ways about it, not on the same level as Playstation or Xbox.
you guessed it right nintendo is just a another greedy gaming company. and they know it even with all the issues and the big prices they know the nintendo stans will go down on their knees.
at the end of the day, yes. Even if it was better than the original hardware by some magic, I would still be looking at it and wondering why I would pay for that. When I can buy and own the original games or even superior remakes on other consoles I don't see the point in paying for access to an inpermenant service that I need to be online for. Makes no sense. Just bring back the virtual console, and I think most people will be happy. I'll just pay $10 for the games I actually want, and be able to play them offline.
@@differentlyabledmuslimjewi4475 thing is, on VC you would need to fork over $100+ to get every big name title, and like the Wii and WiiU, they had trouble tying that system to accounts meaning you'd need to buy again and again.
But here, not only can you get pretty much every big-name title (sadly the exceptions are painfully noticeable) but you'd get them for cheaper for quite a while. Plus the games are meant to be secondary to the actual service which works flawlessly on my internet.
This expansion pass is still far too expensive but it does have benefits the old system does not. Namely that you will be able to keep these games even after the next console releases
@@velvetbutterfly You won't be able to keep them, because you don't get them in the first place. This is a rental. If the next console doesn't have this same service at this same price point and you don't keep paying, then those games are gone. Given Nintendo's terrible track record of not keeping things between consoles, and even outright lying to Wii U owners about purchases staying on their accounts, I'm not giving them more cash.
@@silvershocknicktail6638 they never said anything about WiiU owners?
They specified the reason Switch Owners couldn't keep games or DLC or anything from previous generations was because they were overhauling everything, future-proofing their services so Switch owners will keep all their purchases moving forward
We all know the biggest challenge will be Banjo Tooie. I wonder if one could emulate it to improve the frame rate as a special exception that can be overclocked a little.
lets be honest banjo tooie is going to be mess since orig hardware runs with some issue. imagine how easily it be messed up with emulation quality that can not do fog and dark rooms properly.
I mean the game attempts targets 30 fps, it fails miserably, but it does target it so I image it will be better in emulation. Hey as long as it runs at a consistent 30fps then it will be better then the N64 version.
Banjo Tooie was just too much. Too big and too complex with the walking in and out between worlds. Banjo Kazooie is a much better game.
@@vanessa1963x I will debate you on that, I think that Banjo Tooie is better than Banjo Kazooie. Ok the worlds are big but there are warp pads and silos everywhere, not to mention flying pads which makes treversing through these worlds and back tracking a non issue. If that isn't good enough there's also the super banjo cheat.
Also, the world we're connect in more ways then just the hub world, just like a metroidvainia, infact Banjo Tooie could be considered more of a Metroidvania Collectathon Hybrid. If you think that just because BK was a better game, therefore Tooie shouldn't be on NSO, well then that would be depriving the people who like Tooie who want to play it on NSO.
I think the best n64 emulator nintendo has put out TO DATE can handle it easily
There's an even bigger problem than the fog rendering that I think more people should be aware of and I want Nintendo to know about this as well:
The Frame Pacing. Even if a game like Mario 64 runs at 30fps, if the delivery of these frames are uneven then the result will appear choppy. Even if it is technically running at a consistent 30 FPS. It's the same problem the PS4 and Xbox One versions of Sypro Reignited suffer from. The worst part is most capture cards tend to round up or even out the frames making the footage look smoother than it actually is in gameplay. I wish more people made a bigger deal about this because I feel like this is more important than fog rendering.
For reference this is a Mario Kart 64 FPS test on NSO:
th-cam.com/video/--C2XR5vrcE/w-d-xo.html
What makes me even sadder is that I think that banjo Kazooie is a game that suffers from these issues, you mentioned that you noticed a bit of frame shuddering from time to time. I don't think that's what's going on. I think that it is the Frame Pacing issue I mentioned. This was the only game along with Tooie I was looking forward to and is the main reason I purchased the NSO Expansion pack. Hopefully, once these issues are resolved this will be my preferred way of Playing Banjo Kazooie, Yes even with the stupid note system the N64 version has. I've played it like 5 times on the N64 I'm used to it now. It's cool to see that the Nintendo Xylophone has returned. They didn't edit any of the text or logos at all. Which I thought they were going to but I'm glad they didn't. I love seeing that Title screen saying, Banjo Kazooie (c) Nintendo/Rare. If you are going to tell me that isn't the case anymore. I KNOW and I still get sad every time I hear it. Hopefully, it will be the case again in the future? a girl can dream, can't she?
Now, I don't know when these updates we're made. If it was a few hours ago then when I get back home from college, I hope to find that the frame pacing issues are fixed.
If they fix all of these issues and make the emulation up to snuff with say the Wii Virtual Console, Then I'll be glad to say my biggest issues with the service have been alleviated and that I am glad to have the NSO Expansion pack. Yes, the price is absolutely expensive, but if you have a family plan, like me, then the more people you have to split it with, the lower the cost will be. Before the Expansion pack, I was paying $22 a year for the individual service and now I only have to pay $18 with the Expansion pack. So, at least to me, the Price is at least worth it. But again that's just me.
Do I wish they would add more systems to the service? Yes of course. Was the inclusion of Sega Genesis Games absolutely unnecessary and only served to take up a slot for another Nintendo console like say, The GBA? Undoubtably, Yes (Especially if the only Genesis games you are interested in are The Classic Sonic Trilogy and you already own the Mega Collection on the GameCube or PS2, like me. Though I do want to get into Phantasy Star.) Do I think the rate of updating the service feels like a drip-feed? It doesn't feel like a drip-feed, it IS a drip-feed.
Do I wish that I had the Ability to buy these games individually so that I own them permanently? 100% Yes!!! No matter how good the emulation is, NSO will still be inferior to the VC because I can't own the games I'm only Renting them. I like Owning the games, or other media I buy. It also stinks because Gamecube games are probably too large for a streaming app like NSO, now if I could buy them on the Eshop is a different story.
Also, It should have been the Expansion Pak not, Pack.
So, food for thought I guess.
what I took away from this essay: expansion pak
@@DallinBackstrom Lol, I won't call it an Essay as it doens't really have a thesis or conclusion. Though my I wanted my main point to talk about the Frame Pacing Issues.
@@lutraenhydris3231 humour is not your strong point is it
I think the X-Box version of Banjo-Kazooie is too easy. The notes are meant to be a high score. You shouldn't have to start over if you die, but maybe after a game over.
I'm still confused why Nintendo didn't either go with community made emulators (it's especially disgraceful to see Nintendo hardware struggling, while my phone and my laptop could play these games really nicely, with enhancements and interesting things like true dual analog support/mouse + keyboard support for GoldenEye/Perfect Dark for example, all for free without overpriced monthly payments) or do what SEGA did and hire M2 if they don't want to deal with open source emulators.
I’m going to hold off on the expansion pass until they fix more of the bugs, and add more games. I don’t want to buy a year membership (the only one they offer for the expansion pass) and beat the games I wanna play in two weeks. (OOT) (Starfox) (Mario 64) although when MM releases. I’d love to give it a second chance….because when it came out, as a kid I was expecting another OOT and I was disappointed. But now…I see that it was never intended to be.
Man I have tons of time to devote to games but how you gonna beat those in less than a month
@@haydawgarchive-ultrahayden7380 honestly, star fox isn’t hard. OOT….honestly I’ve beat that game since I was a kid maybe 20-30 times so a lot of it is memory lol mario may be the longest. Winback would be the hardest. I never beat that game. But always loved it
I don’t think it would be worth it til they include GameCube and Wii games too. It’s sooo expensive!
@@MaxOakland agreed! 60 bucks for only like 6-7 games for n64. They do have Sega genesis games….But I’m more interested in N64. And at the moment, there is not enough to justify the price tag so I guess I’ll be waiting to purchase when they release more games and correct the games more.
@@MaxOakland its relatively cheap but I do get where you're coming from. Like Gamepass is $150+ per year.
Thanks for the terrific and informative video. Over the last few days, I’ve seen half a dozen videos attempting to cover this subject and each of them failed to produce any interesting information (no mention of input lag, no mention of performance, etc.). Keep up the great work!
Your take at the 10min mark left a great taste in my mouth in the quality of reporting and content that you do. Thanks for calling out Nintendo (and other companies) but also acknowledging and thanking them when they do improve or listen. That's what is needed A LOT MORE in gaming culture.
Yeah, too many people are quick to jump on the hate bandwagon but never want to acknowledge the good being done
@@svenbtb Acknowledge what? Treat Nintendo like EA, 2k, CD Project Red and all the other AAA companies that push out incomplete products. The hate nintendo got is justified and no they dont deserve praise for doing shit that shouldve been done BEFORE selling this product to consumers.
@@Chaoskae agree with you, I already sick with this BS.
The fatal flaw in this emulator is that you have to pay an additional fee, when it should have been to add value to the nearly worthless subscription that I already pay for. No amount of emulation fixes will make it viable.
Just watch them add Gameboy Advance games for another fee.
Stsrfox also renders the underwater world without fog, which kills the whole mood and challenge of the level
Just got back from the Gerudo desert and I can say the sandstorm was fixed there as well. The visibility used to be so clear that the puzzle was trivial but now it's fixed so it's not as easy to see where to go
"Don't settle for less.
Demand Better."
Glad they're fixing some of the big issues, I'm still waiting to upgrade until it's completely fixed. A premium price should = premium service
"Nintendo is taking this seriously." Nothing done for the bad online play or the lack of memory pak integration. Great job guys your listening so much. For reference I assume Nothing was done as I would expect it to be mentioned if anything was.
The lack of memory pack integration is inexcusable, but the bad online play may not have a solution due to performance issues. Frankly I'm surprised they even bothered including it.
House of skulltula is probably another issue relating to fog. Only the fog takes on a black colour in this area.
Another great vid, MVG!! Your videos are very informative and fun to watch!! Thanks for commenting about N64 on Switch! :D
The Paper Mario thing is scarier than it seems.
The question is, why does it corrupt or delete the save at all, why is there no backup or failsafe, and why wouldn't they protect the other games' saves by keeping them separate?
It's scary to think that EVEN IF Paper Mario was fixed yesterday, imagine losing your 40+ hours in OOT, completion of Banjo Kazooie, badge collection in Paper Mario, and high score medals in Star Fox because of a new crash in Super Smash Bros., Majora's Mask, or whatever is coming next?
The fact that it happened at all basically makes me never want to touch NSO for playing these games. Lol
The cause is explained in the video linked in the description. Basically, NSO doesn't dump save data to storage until the app is closed properly (i.e. close from the home menu, or shut down the system). If NSO crashes, it doesn't have the chance to write save data from RAM to storage.
That being said, I don't understand why they didn't have any fail-safes in place for when the app crashes to preserve at least some of the save data.
@@averywinters6018 i don't get why saves are not written immeadiately considering that NSO is likely to be left on with out closing for much longer than other consoles games are. it would preemptively solve any issues with crashes since saves can not be lost from not being put in memory.
For the wii and gamecube emulators, they assigned one skilled dude and he ran the roms to near flawless emulation. The fact Nintendo can't do that now just feels like they've not assigned the right resources to the task, it feels like they've assigned one intern to work on the emulator and roms for one day per week. What's bonkers is how much Nintendo is charging for a service yet that money clearly isn't being used to better the service.
Wii? You mean Mario Galaxy's? Wasn't it only partially emulated?
@@elnkr2603 I meant the N64 virtual console available on the wii.
@@jameslyon2338 Oh yeah, that makes more sense. My bad.
@@elnkr2603 Fun fact, that one dude is also the guy who programmed most of (all of?) Pokemon Puzzle League on the N64. Fitting, considering how absurdly difficult that game is to run on emulators!
Thanks for covering MVG! I love hearing if they're improving the emulator.
Great video as always but one criticism I have is that you keep using “the original” to refer to both the 1.0 NSO version and the actual original version of Ocarina of Time. It’s especially jarring at 03:00 minutes because you say “original” whilst referring to the NSO 1.0 version, but you’re showing the actual original on screen at the same time with the word “original” shown - could be quite confusing for some people
Glad to see they're putting in the effort to improve the experience. And now that we have Banjo, it makes me wonder if Conker is possible to add to the collection as well. Probably not given the M rating.
They could put the censored version perhaps, or a separate application for mature games
I still cant decide if i find it sad or hilarious that Nintendo even has such issues with emulating games they made themselves.
On top of that, free community-made emulators have been emulating N64 games better for decades.
@@fders938 Exactly, and Nintendo's answer is, instead of throwing resources at emulation, is to take the cheapest option possible, as they know it will sell by the shedload no matter how bad - just take off the shelf open source emulators that are terrible (but free), as in the NES and SNES mini, in which the emulation was so poor, they had to cherry pick games that wouldnt glitch or have audio corruption.
@@smurphoid what? hackers loaded up the mini consoles with roms nearly from day one. plus, i don't think nintendo ever used any open source emulators, let alone anything external, for anything they sell. all of their emulators are developed internally
I've been waiting for this video for almost a week!
7:56 "there are still bugs" as the buzz bomber from the BK intro hits the Rareware logo. Nicely timed if intentional
Imagine releasing a finished product, pepperidge Farm remembers
No
They didn't even release a product. These aren't games you can buy. This is a SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE. You can only subscribe to Nintendo to rent n64 roms for a year. Once you stop paying your subscription fee, you can never play these games you spent money on again.
You subscribe for 3 years? That's $120 down the drain and at the end of 3 years, you can't even play what you spent money on.
I've been speedrunning mario 64 on project 64, was curious and decided to try and play on the Switch thing. It's actually hilarious how the input lag made it basically unplayable. Good to hear it's lessened.
Good to know
Great video as always!
Always appreciate your dedication MVG!
It's not quite there but it is an improvement.
How could fog be a performance issue? The thing ran fine on a gamecube. Switch is 100x more powerful.
Interesting stuff! One theory for the lack of fog/reflections might be issues with writing to the Z buffer. Many older games tend to draw reflected meshes over the water texture before applying a colour overlay with Z-Writing disabled to achieve performant mirror effects. As fog effects in these games heavily rely on depth information to apply fog/smoke over objects, it's possible that some depth buffer incompatiblity results in one (or both) of these effects breaking if used together. Perhaps fog is intentionally disabled in the OOC rendering engine for this reason?
Love the new outro music!
What if the lack of fog is a misguided design decision? Maybe they thought, “oh, fog is bad and was made to keep the frame rate stable, so let’s just take it off now that we have the overhead to.”
Look at the side-by-side comparison at 3:30. There IS fog emulation, but it's completely messed up, it's like the parameters are all wrong. The fog starts WAY too near in the distance, and the fade is much too gradual, to the point where far objects and the horizon are still barely affected by fog.
i was waitin' for this vid!
the video quality in the video is amazing MVG !
I'm happy to see that the N64 emulation on NSO has improved. However, I still don't have a reason to upgrade to getting N64 games. I already have other copies of most of the N64 games they've uploaded so far. Same with the titles they uploaded for the SEGA Genesis emulator.
The puzzle effect wasn't really an issue in the past. It's just that most plugins had Frame Buffer Effects disabled by default for performance reasons. I could still enable them on the old Glide64 plugin on my Pentium 4 and i could see the correct puzzle effects (as well as the screen panel above the first tunnel in Mario Kart) but the games would not run at full speed.
In other words, it wasn't an emulation issue, it was a performance issue. Nowadays, even mobiles have enough power to show these effects at full speed, therefore there is no reason to disable FBE. Unless you are using crap like Pi devices for N64 emulation.
When you said 5-6 frames of lag (and the subsequent 1-2 reduction), is that measured against at the refresh rate of 60 or OoT's 20fps rendering? 5 frames of lag isn't great at 60 but it's really rough (250ms) at 20fps
Other issues I hope get addressed in the future.
- Further optimization of the frame rate in Yoshi’s Story (a game that is infamous on emulators)
- Fog with Mario Kart 64 (maybe also force the the game to think a Memory Pak is inserted.)
A CRT filter (that also dials back the rendering resolution to 240p)
Awesome video thanks 👍
Even if its improving, the fans should never stop demanding for better emulation quality and more games.
Well here's the thing
you guys will probably keep asking for changes once its finished, to have it like pc emulation. They will probably just get annoyed and just quit the changes after some point
I think the House of Skulltulla bug would be also fixed if they fix the Fog, because it is darker because of a "black fog" effect.
Interesting that there’s been improvements while some setbacks are still present, such as the Paper Mario glitch where it doesn’t keep your save data.
Ahh.. Those times when software was released complete feels like a far away memory by now.. now a days even hardware products are shipped with buggy and unfinished firmware.. you don't purchase products anymore.. you invest in them hoping they will work properly and as announced in the future.. ridiculous..
That's not entirely true, though... there were plenty of games back in the day that released under-baked. It's not like everything used to be perfect. Not that that excuses anything, believe me, but the good and the bad has always been there.
Old games were glitchy, buggy and sometimes unfinished as well. Without the chance to ever get patched at all. I don't want to defend modern business practices of abusing users for beta testers but back in the days things were also far from perfect.
I agree with that, but it feels like it has become more and more extreme during the past years, in the sense that the base functionality is pretty much affected yet the product gets still shipped in its unfinished state. Software and hardware has become more complex during time, but so have the sophistication of hardware and development practices. Perhaps I'm biased by higher expectations or memory bias.. but I certainly don't remember buying products hoping that they are in a working state.. It's like it's the "normal" now to buy unfinished products that "may" get fixed in the future..
@@RobertKoszewski Nowadays AAA companies just know that it is not important anymore to make the best product. Everything is mostly based on marketing and manipulation of potential customers and their only goal is to max out profits even if it means to damage or even destroy their own economical future in the long run because until then everybody who was in charge already became filthy rich beyond our imagination.
It is weird as Star Fox 64 lacks fog and it looks pretty bad on the land based levels.
Hopefully Nintendo keeps improving the emulations.
Really? You’re the first person I’ve seen complain about Star Fox 64 on the NSO. Disappointing to hear, as it’s my favorite game :/
@@PortableMediaReviews
It is still a great game (one of the best!) but the fog is not as good as it was and you can really see the seams near breaking on some levels, especially the free roam land levels.
On the plus side the resolution boost is really quite nice and the rumble is great!
It just seems to be the way of it with the N64 emulation so far, one step forward then one back.
Hopefully Nintendo keeps working on it.
Great epizode. I love emulation topic made by you. Did you thaught about making episode about messen emulator and messen hd packs ?
The music at the end of the video sounds so interesting! Is this your new piece of music, MVG?
Perhaps instead of the fog not being added, it was intentionally removed. The fog was there to increase FPS on the original hardware so Nintendo may have removed it because it was not necessary due to modern hardware. But they didn't realize that the fog was also an artistic choice.
Fog didn't increase FPS. Some games have a lower draw distance, and use fog to obscure that. It is the lower draw distance that increased FPS. (The fog on top of that actually had a tiny performance impact over not having fog) Ocarina of Time doesn't really use fog in that manner, though.
I think less than the frame rate issues, I think the world borders improved massively due to the fog effect. In the NSO version of the shadow link room, it looks like you're on a saucer in the air... the fog really obscured the world border and made you think that the room was infinite rather than being as limited as it really is
If that was the case, you'd see more fog in the game. They didn't put fog in Hyrule Field, Lake Hylia, or Hyrule Castle; they put fog in the forest (the most likely place to be foggy).
I actually notice the input delay on Banjo-Kazooie, it's definitely there.
Really? Banjo Kazooie might be my most played game on my original N64, and I played the NSO version and didn’t notice any input lag at all. Other than just natural input lag from playing on a big HD tv. Handheld mode had no input lag.
@@lambiepie6436 no it’s definitely there. It made the ant hill section of mumbos mountain a nightmare
Love the little voice crack at 4:59
That's the way to cover stuff like this cover both the good and bad fairly... Great video!
suits be like "why do we need a team on 20 year old shipped games?"
There is NO WAY that the fog is a performance issue. It should be using a simple depth buffer to generate what appears as fog, but isnt a real volumetric mesh.
Hopefully they can add button remapping. Would help a bit especially moving the c buttons to actual buttons instead of the stick.
Great video MVG.
Just a guess but the fog might be broken due to the higher rendering resolution. A lot of effects like this don’t scale well with resolutions increase in old games. Lazy devs usually just choose to disable the effects. Good devs either figure out a fix or make a new version of the effect to replace the broken one.
We see that a lot in remasters looking worse despite being in HD due to transparencies, bloom, DoF, motion blur, etc. all often missing.
Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask relies heavily on fog to create atmosphere. Nintendo is likely working on patching their emulator in time for MM’s release next month. It’s entirely possible that the service was rushed out early to fit into the physical quarter.
Hey mate; what brand/model of camera are you using? The picture is just so crisp; so impeccable..
Thanks for the update.
I don't think Nintendo deserves praise for correcting flaws in their products. This is their job and what they are paid to do. This should have worked correctly, right out of the box, at launch. And this is something to be expected as a given. So no, they do not deserve praise for this.
They're not even delivering a product. This is a PAID SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE. You can't buy these roms. You can only RENT n64 games for a year, and this is the quality of the rental service. At the end of the year you will be out $50 and forbidden from accessing the games you rented until you cough up another $50. Nintendo supports the World Economic Forum's future for you:
You will own nothing and you will be happy.
Honestly the best N64 emulation I've played is Batocera on my PC. Plays great.
i've been using project64 and its magnificent if you get the settings right.
@@pyametra and don't use the default RDP and RSP plugins ;P
This might be a dumb question, but as per the fog issue, i can see why ppl would prefer it to look like the original. But was it specifically a visual style chosen for the game or was it used in the original version in order to get better performance? As in so it didnt fully render faraway objects until you got closer. And since it wasnt present on the switch version was that due to the system having much better processing power and thus not needing fog?
Framerate perforamnce aside, the only thing BK needs now is custom keybindings. Trying to fire eggs forward is often very difficult because you can easily move the camera while you're aiming. It makes the already hard Gruntilda fight unnecessarily difficult.
You literally can keybind any button to any button in the switch settings.
The fact we even have to have this discussion is ridiculous. Nintendo should have ALREADY been on their A-Game with this stuff. We've been emulating it for ages now and the fact that Nintendo is actually struggling to get these games up to working order is totally laughable and inexcusable. I dumped my entire online service with Nintendo. This is just one more reason...
This is Nintendo we're talking about, they've probably JUST reached "lol we can just patch it later" game development.
@@DoctorWhom maybe with the online, yes but I very highly doubt nintendo will start releasing unfinished first party titles. Hell, even a lot of third party publishers do a good job generally speaking. The only one flopping it is gamefreak with Pokémon afaik
I am happy to hear that Nintendo has made some improvements to the N64 games on NOS. If more improvements are made i might sub to the expansion. Great video.
Still holding out on an online expansion subscription...let's see if more fixes keep coming.
Thanks for the upload.
My take on the fog: the fog was part of the technical limitations of the N64, and for other games they fixed the issue. However, Ocarina of Time used that limitation for artistic effect rather than feeling out of place as with other N64 games, so fixing the bug in general had an effect on this games artistic atmosphere.
Something tells me what their doing is trying to fix the emulator along with the releases.
And if they fail to release a fix, its probably because the fix is breaking something else. I have to give them credit even if its not perfect. But it's a small step.
I'm happy you are handling Nintendo in a positive light. They may get a little paranoid sometimes, but they are doing their best to make video games as culture-friendly as possible.
Fog implementation is essential to every single N64 game because the console is so blocky and jittery and fog will smooth out the picture
I've seen gameplay of Banjo-Kazooie on NSO. I did notice some graphical problems with Kazooie's wings with the slight dark outline. I also noticed that Jinxy in Gobi's Valley looks way to dark on certain areas.
In terms of input lag in Banjo-Kazooie, I’ve only really experienced it during the entrance room for the Gobi's Valley level.
While it’s not the worst, it’s still very annoying.
With Nintendo's history of ensuring the highest quality, even having to delay the release of a game, this implementation of emulation is actually quite disappointing. It is essentially a beta release. The current industry practice of rushing to release titles quickly and relying on many successive online updates is so annoying.
I’ll give it a year until I consider the N64 online, in the meantime, Xbox Series S emulation
or rare replay, which has several of the best n64 games ever made (conker, perfect dark, blast corps, etc)
The question is if they add support for multiple expansions at the same time in a game (Controller Pak and Rumble Pak) which no other emulator does.
Hey thanks for the update, it shows you're actually interesting the topic instead of only wanting to show drama or something to critique
Let’s hope when they do DK64 they emulate that game well too. Let’s be frank, emulation wasn’t always kind to that game neither.
I think it was only in the last three years they finally fixed DK64's issue where eventually the models would start stretching off into the distance due to some timer desync.
the challenging games they are going to mess up since OOT proved challenging. getting hopes up that harder stuff like MM or DK64 is going to be done well is bound for disapointment
Good job Nintendo for getting influencers on board with paying a monthly fee to pay 30 year old roms
Is MVG one of the influencers in question, or what's up there?
I believe the house of scutula is also affected by the fog issue. It is not a separate issue. The room, I believe, uses black colored fog.
I'm pretty sure that house of skultulla lighting is just fog too, so it makes sense that it looks different.