Nintendo 64 emulation on the Nintendo Switch is not good.... | MVG
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
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Nintendo has released their NSO Expansion Pack service and with it comes the first wave of Nintendo 64 games. Unfortunately the emulation used to power these games is not good and needs improvement. In this episode we take a closer look.
Time Codes:
00:00-00:20 Intro
00:21-02:00 Sponsor
02:01-03:17 History of N64 Emulation
03:18-05:15 N64 on NSO Introduction
05:16-06:18 Filtering problems
06:19-08:13 Input lag tests
08:14-09:38 Fog Rendering
09:39-10:51 Online Multiplayer Problems
10:52-13:22 Whats Next for NSO/Thoughts/Conclusion
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#NSO #NintendoSwitch #Nintendo64 - เกม
so sad how crappy it is. mario kart 64 online could have been huge (and hugely fun)
agreed
hopefully they listen and it get fixed. thanks for watching my friend
why? the newer mario kart is better in ever way.
@@GenBumbleBee Nostalgia is a big factor. It has a certain charm and enjoyment associated if you play MK64 online with buddies you used to sit on the couch with when kids.
Here before 1k views. I do wish that they fixed it...
The fact that it took Nintendo four years after the Switch's launch to implement N64 games on top of charging so much extra despite modders doing it first is a disgrace.
And the fact that they somehow fucked up the emulation here than what they did with Wii VC is even more insultingly hilarious.
Good work soldier, now continue your daily routine of buying nintendo products
not only that but Nintendo has been making efforts to destroy the emulation community for years already lol
@@Trimint123 Don't forget Kirby Dreams Collection on Wii and Zelda Collector's Disc and OoT: Master Quest on GameCube.
The Switch is 4 Years Old and still loses to the Wii U's Virtual Console which had NES, SNES, N64, GBA, DS and more...it kills me to see Nintendo act like adding N64 and Genesis to NSO makes it worth a price increase!
"Nintendo screwed up legacy content again!"
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Nintendo news is getting to be a broken record in recent years.
I don’t understand why nintendo gatekeeps games from re-releases. Especially the gamecube era of first party games. Sellers on ebay are atrocious thinking people will pay hundreds of dollars for an item they bought at gamestop “used” for less $10-20, with the price tag still on it, with scuffs on the disc and dirt everywhere. But ohhhh its “near mint” “””factory sealed”””” “CIB” HA those sellers are a joke, it only depends on how ridiculous someone is to buy it to influence the market. None of those games should be valued at such a price if they scuffed, even the sealed copies. Just because its not in reproduction doesn’t mean it should cost three months worth of a mortgage if its rated and sealed.
The africa 60 second meme is unfunny and overused
@@manguita352 I agree
@@enderless6055 is nice to know am not alone to have the same opinión thank you
What I love about MVG is that he doesn’t just give a critique but can tell you exactly how they messed up, show them, and offer solutions on what they can do to fix it.
Isn't that what a critique is?
@@CobaltAkuma Nope, this is critique + expansion pack
@@CobaltAkuma Its constrictive criticism
Instead of what most people do: complain whilst offering no solutions or ideas, like "rahhhh this is bad!"
Why?
"Why what?"
Why bad?
"It's bad"
I know, why
"It is bad bad bad"
Why?
"Bad"
Once again we come to the to less valve quote:
"Piracy is a service problem"
If Nintendo can't compete with literal free alternatives then I have no sympathy when people choose those alternatives
you're right, but i also think most people won't even recognise this issues, i don't think is worth their time making a perfect emulstor since only a small percentage of switch owners really care. Meanwhile hardcore fans of nintendo retrogames will probably continue use emulation on pc sinve you care for this things and want this games as best as they can be
At this point the pirates care more about the old games than Nintendo
@@user-qq3ec1ve5q exactly, but this "pirates" are the minority, it isn't worth their time making a perfect emulation when most of switch owners are casual players that won't notice any differences and have never seen an emulator
I don't think they believe in the word "free"
Nintendo's solution has always been to aggressively attack "alternatives" instead of doing anything themselves.
That fog really needs a fix. Saw Ganondorf floating there just after pulling the master sword when he should have been invisible. It scared me, not gonna lie.
What? That's wild
@@sammadden5540 It's pretty crazy. I'll link to a ZFG video where you can see th-cam.com/video/HK_-UHXPl2U/w-d-xo.html
@@sammadden5540 see I was gonna make a breath of the wild pun, but I changed my mind.
To think he's been there the whole time... 😧
@@VinnytotheK He's always watching...
I'm a huge Nintendo fan and this is incredibly disappointed. I'm hoping they reduce the price and fix these emulators. If Iwata was still around, that's what he would do.
Miss Satoru Iwata
@@blitzwing1 If some guy was able to make Super Mario 64 into a PC port that plays natively, can't Nintendo with ALL of their resources get N64 games playable right on the Switch without emulation, is it not possible or is SM64 just the easiest N64 game to run?
@@webbedshadow2601 porting games takes a lot of resources. It took the group years to do Mario 64 cause they had to reverse engineer the code. Emulation is fine when it’s implemented right.
People like to put Iwata on a pedestal after his passing... But the truth is that he was the head of Nintendo that brought them down into the Wii and wiiu era where almost every core gamer completely lost respect for them.
@@paulj6805 I get what you mean but hey at least his Wii virtual console that was around during his era was leaps better than this current-way more expensive- Switch Online emulation
Nintendo: has source code
Also Nintendo: yeah, emulate them bro.
Nah they probably deleted that shit years ago.
Remember one time they downloaded roms from a website because apparently they didn't have those roms themselves?
What's archival?
@@scottmemelord6130 You might be right but I doubt they re-created Majoras and Ocarina for the 3ds starting from 0.
The fact that fans can reverse engineering the games and port to almost every system with widescreen, HD filters, rumble and all the whistles and bells and Nintendo only can made this soulless product is almost offensive
@@jaruizm1 not almost offensive, it is offensive. The fact they want to charge so much for a fking downgrade is insane.
@Nurse Xóchitl “basically no improvement” dude it’s literally a downgrade
Nintendo should feel embarrased that they do a worse job emulating their own products than a community of volunteers who had to spend time and effort reverse engineering everything.
They better or else I'm genociding the horrible programmers who most likely know what they are doing for greed.
@@rickgrimes9317 ngl I'm going to mod a switch with retroarch just in spite of them
Why would they feel embarrassed when they didn’t care to begin with? Consumers have proven time and time again that they’ll pay premium prices for Nintendo to do the bare minimum
@@rickgrimes9317 It's not the Programmers who get final say on what gets funded. If the Execs don't see money in Quality of Life Features, they won't invest in it. Super Mario 64 sold like crazy, and the 6 month purchase window caused it to break some kinda record or other.
And look at previous low quality Nintendo Fiascos that also broke records despite Quality. The Switch is one of the best selling consoles ever despite constant hardware issues and the JoyCon Drift Lawsuit they squeaked out of. Animal Crossing's complete lack of content, now with a DLC you can only RENT, and locks you out when your wallet runs dry. Pokémon Sword and Shield being a complete embarassment to all expectations of a pokémon game, yet still selling some 23 million copies and counting. That Mario Kart thing for Mobile that was just a slot machine with fake multiplayer.
Nintendo knows they're secure enough as a brand that they could scribble "Nintendo" on a can of Campbell's, and it'd still make mad bank as an official product.
@@IlIBonesIlI “with a DLC you can only rent”
did you miss the fact that you can just buy the Happy Home Paradise DLC?
I can’t speak as to whether or not SwSh/New Horizons/Happy Home Paradise sucks or not but that statement is just incredibly false
Pay an extra $20 for accurate emulation. The super expansion pack
Haha. With the Steam Deck, you don't have to pay for anything to emulate N64. Even a Retroid Pocket 2 could play N64 better than the Nintendon't Switch. I do recommend that you already own the ROMs legally though. ;)
🤯🤯
@@thatguyalex2835 yeah but the steamdeck doesnt match everyones likings. Like for me the steam deck looks to big and bulky. I already have a gaming pc, and i love nintendos first party games so much. So to me the Nintendo switch is better than the steam deck. But this is just my opinion, and others are not wrong for theirs
Lol 🤣
@@justins2024 I 99.9% understand. It is quite bulky "a fatboiiii", but is the first in probably a series of innovations in the 2020s. Maybe by 2023 a thinner Steam Deck would be released? Lol... Totally curious, what are the specs and brand of gaming PC do you own?
I am not a gamer at all, but I find emulation and hardware pretty fascinating cos I like science and engineering. :)
This video is so good.
MVG never seems to disappoint.
How?
This comment is so effortless.
This video is so bad u mean
@@MrCumstein It disappointed me. He talks so quietly.
Don't worry, diehard Nintendo fans will tell us that the emulation is in fact good and that we should be thankful that Nintendo offered us n64 games in the first place
I can't imagine who would buy this. As a value proposition alone it makes no sense. If you bought original hardware for the superior and 100% authentic experience, the value is only ever going to go UP. Where as this, it's WORTHLESS to anybody but you the very second you pay for it. Money down the drain.
You really think a "Diehard Nintendo fan" would accept this hot garbage? Last I knew - people became diehard fans of a company because they expect some level of quality from these companies that outpaces the competition. This? This is not quality - this is below average trash that is not worth the price that Nintendo expects us to pay for.
I understand there are outliers who don't care no matter how much people disagree with them, but the general consensus I've heard is: "This is bad, please fix it".
Literally a RGB/HDMI modded N64 with an Everdrive is better than this.
already found one as @Fernando Villasenor
The emulation is clearly trying to be as faithful to the originals as possible rather than giving you all the options something like OpenEmu has.
Maybe they will add all that kind of thing in the future.
Well, looks like for many games the expansion pack doesn’t have the expansion pack
anyone else bite their Switch? I don't like to rage when I'm playing online, so when something really annoying happens and I get pissed, I try not to yell or punch something. Instead, I keep a straight face and I angrily bite into my switch for a few seconds until my anger is released. The best part of this is that Nintendo seems to have built the Switch with this in mind, because the plastic material seems completely resistant to my teeth. Legit, there are never teeth marks even mere minutes after the initial chomp. What I'm wondering is, does anyone else here do the same? Am I the only munching smash player? I hope
@@iaqh No one else does that. You are unique little chomp chain.
@@iaqh I say this without any sarcasm: no, it’s just you. That’s weird
@@iaqh You a werewolf?
@@iaqh I did it when I was a child. And that's how I broke my Nintendo DSi XL SMB 25th Anniversary Edition's upper screen 🥲
If Nintendo starting working with some of the highly skilled people in the community rather than hitting them with cease and desist and lawsuits all the time they would be far better off when it comes to these sorts of projects. They seem so stuck in the past in the way some of their business practices are conducted and this just futher proves the point. At least Sega gets it, Sonic Mania proves what you can provide your fans when you work with them, instead of against them. This is completely unacceptable and an even bigger slap in the face along with the ludicrous price.
I am not defending Nintendo here just stating the legal reasons why they do this . Under American law if Nintendo did not vigorously defend there IP against unsanctioned use they would be at risk of losing it. I personally believe they take it to far when they take down let's play videos and other fan created work that is not a derivative of their code or uses there music.
@@michaelreddy4697 I completely agree with you there sir, they have every right to do it. However they should be making themselves better getting the talent on board rather than just branding the lot of them criminals. I also know Sega are nothing in size compared to Nintendo but they handle it much better and involve the fans. After all 99% of these people love Nintendo, that should be harrnesed to make them ever better :)
@@michaelreddy4697 can't have flaws without laws amirite
working with :D they will sue them instead!!!!!
Assert their IP != C&D everything that moves. Instead of extinguishing all fan efforts (Like AM2R, etc), they could extend them a license to use in not-for-profit cases and all that. Work with top talent to create better things.
Instead they spend their time blocking TH-cam Let's Plays and killing anything that might have any remote connection to them that's not made by them.
I have a feeling their QA process was "does it run consistently?" rather than "does it run correctly?"
Some companies do that a lot, and if this was a background project for Nintendo, that may have been their approach... which sucks, but having worked in game QA myself, that's how it is sometimes.
Sadly, in an age of Software becoming a service to be subcribed to rather than a product to buy, it has become increasingly low quality.
Me and my buddies have been playing N64 online with Parsec for years and it is always smooth sailing. Pretty crazy that I can stream my entire PC screen at 1080p smoother than the switch emulators can just sync data back and forth.
I did not know about Parsec thank you.
1080p? Try 4k, bud.
Same. Me and friends are regularly doing Mario Kart 64 parties using Parsec without a single issue.
@@johnnybyrd300 do you legitimately think 4k is necessary for an N64 game?
@@johnnybyrd300 Lol, my retro game TV is a decade old, but it has 4 HDMI, 3 composite, 1 component, 1 coax, 1 vga, and a partridge in a pear tree. With my modern 4k TV, I was lucky to get 3 hdmi. I bet retro games perfectly integer scale in 4k too. I will have to give that a shot!
If they were going for nostalgia they've succeeded, because now I'm nostalgic for going to ROM websites and even places like Yahoo Groups when I was like 19 (I'm 34 now) to snag people's copies of Pokemon Gold and Silver in their Files folder lol.
It makes me nostalgic for the days where I emulated N64 games on such a weak PC that most effects were broken. Not to mention that N64 emulation in general wasn't that good back then anyway. Nintendo really outdid themselves this time by recreating such a specific kind of nostalgia, huh?
Especially because now that I'm not 12 anymore, I can figure out how to play with a controller rather than a simple keyboard and mouse. I personally choose playing with joycons to get the most official feeling of playing games I'll likely never see on Switch.
Looool
@@inendlesspain4724 The graphics emulation here is scarily similar to old versions of the Daedalus video plugin...which was made with then weak systems in mind.
@@inendlesspain4724 Same, haha. I'm trying to remember if Yahoo Groups had some N64 ROMs people would cram in there, but they'd be in chunks and in parts haha. Like to play Super Mario 64 there'd be like 5 parts you had to get at 10MB a pop or something along those lines. Or going to places like CoolROMs and stuff to find like 30 variants of SM64, lol.
Can't wait to boot up Majoras Mask on NSO and have it tell me that the N64 Expansion pack is missing.
You have to buy that for an additional $20/year
Well, at least we know for sure that they are going to fix the emulator in an update since it doesn't have support for Majora's Mask in its current state. Unless they get it running with an individual script or fix added on to just the Expansion Pak games... I hope they fix Ocarina of Time with an update.
Great video, but I disagree with you on it being okay for the "Casual Gamer". This is a product targeted directly at the people that played these growing up. That is your Casual Gamer. They went as far as to create controllers for this service but provided a below subpar experience and there should be no excuses for that.
Everyone else on TH-cam just toes the line by saying it "is not perfect"
MVG keeps it real by saying flat out it "is not good". Respect!
Him and Glenn Plant are the only ones...Game Explain was the worst...they made the original Nintendo 64 look bad claiming well it has as lag as NSO so all's good when they probably used an AV to HDMI upscaler for the Nintendo 64 and not a CRT or a Retrotink.
It's very disappointing that they've delivered worse emulation than they had all the way back on the Wii.
@@a_meme_name My guess: They want your money, but they don't want the old games to be enjoyable enough that you don't buy and play their latest games...
@@polycube868 GameXplain are always kissing Nintendo's ass of course they won't tell you the service is bad
Most will usually use the words It has Problems.
The direct comparison between 3D All Stars and NSO is the most intriguing, and frustrating, thing shown here. How is it that they managed to make basically the same emulator worse by two frames with whatever small changes they did in between the two releases?
My guess is that the UI itself adds lag
The Shindo version of Mario 64 is objectively inferior
@@nintendo1889x Irrelevant
Thatsy why i use the switch port of Super Mario 64. It has no noticeable lag.
Bit I can't get Donkey Kong 64 to run via homebrew emulation
@@bruckmike were can I get that version yes my 1st gen switch is hacked and good to go
I've been a nintendo player since early 90s, waited patiently many, many years for releases. And let me tell you, I'm tired of getting short changed. The Wii shop was perfect the way it was, control configuration was well done and there was no monthly charge to shop there.
It's not perfect, but it was way better than what we get now.
Maybe nintendo will change how to do things going forward. Fans have enabled them to half ass things for the entire switch generation. I can't believe people aren't sick of them reselling the same games and using weak hardware over and over again..
I believe that you are a liar or just have a bad memory, why? OoT on wii control configuration was A>A,B>B, Y> C-L, X>C-R, ZR and ZL both are C-D, Z was actually L. for C-U you needed to press the rigth stick up, and there was no way to remap anything or at least i never found that option. It really was a mess. and not all wii classic controllers got zr,zl
I’ve seen a few ideas people have thrown out suggesting Nintendo sells their old roms online for a reasonably cheap price. This would quell piracy issues and they’d make bank doing it.
Oh my Lord would they make bank! But only if the original studios / developers got their fair cut.
@@shenone3285 definitely
Sega have been doing it for ages now, just sell the roms, bundle them with a crappy emulator that will appease the casuals and let the rom be free to use where ever else, but Nintendo would die before they’d sell their games on non proprietary hardware.
I agree with you.
They should make a website and have that service and sell the roms for a right price.
I would pay a few bucks a pop for old ROMs. Instead I have to go to sketchy websites to get ROMs of games I already paid for as a kid.
The amusing part is that it's called "expansion pack" but their half baked emulator dosen't support N64 Expansion Paks.
...I'm an ateist... but jesus...
@@jonasmellberg3559 So? Does that do anything on this comment?
@@retrocysper3709 the joke is right there, he doesn't believe in jesus but used the word jesus to express shock like some christians do.
autism pack should be called
@@yung_barbone notspansion pack
If Nintendo don’t want us emulating their games, they need to give us a good service and while i do respect that Nintendo gave us a way to officially play these, Project 64 can do a fantastic and much better job on PC so Nintendo need to improve this 😊
Even Mupen64FZ on Android can handle Nintendo 64 just fine
@@Zenik506 yeah so this isn’t acceptable
@@James-gj8rn And when you consider that Nintendo doesn't take it too fine when the ROMs of their games are available online for free, the feeling is even worse. It's OK if they take down the ROMs and whatever. But at least make the effort to make your option (a paid option at that) better than free emulators. This simply is not what the consumers that went ahead from day one deserve.
@@SenkaPress I really don't get that argument. Piracy is fine, if the original vendor doesn't provide a good option for emulation? What keeps you from plugging in an original N64 in your TV and then playing the original games that you actually own?
@@SenkaPress totally agree 100%
Nintendouche: "Want to pay a 2nd time for games you've owned for decades? With more bugs and more latency?"
People: "No, we'll just download the roms and use free emulators instead."
Nintendouche: "Oh yea? Our lawyers will just see about that."
Was necessary?
No.
Was useful?
No.
Was a mistake?
*Yes.*
At this point I’m convinced that Nintendo lives in its own bubble isolated from the rest of the world, where other consoles and PCs don’t exist, emulators and fan translations never happened, and this is the first time anyone has been able to play Ocarina of Time since 1998.
wouldn't be surprised. literal hermits. disgusting.
They kinda do that already, offering different exclusives only in Japan.
Uh, Wii and Wii U vc exist
The GameCube collection
The disc that had master quest on it with oot on GameCube
@@teikazami3170 Not to mention the 3DS remake lmao. I actually own all of those versions, except for the Master Quest disc
Pretty accurate actually. Shortly after NSO originaly started, Nintendo was forced to admit during an investors meeting that they have no idea how competing platforms' online services work because the game devs got confused and didn't understand what the investors were talking about when they asked how Nintendo plans to compete with the features found in their competitors' online services. Nintendo basically confirmed then and there that they literally live under a rock and just pretend their competitors don't exist instead of actually trying to compete with them.
I'm so glad I waited to see reviews because I am extremely sensitive to input lag and man if I forked out $50 to immediately be greeted with this lag I would have felt like I was genuinely robbed
@HumanGarbage yeah same, input lag literally makes me vomit. Thats why I'm waiting for the steam deck to release in order to play wwhd (since I don't have any space for a wiiu) bc my laptop has so much lag on it
You're not alone bro, I remember switching from LED to CRT for my Wii and the difference was amazing, I could really feel the responsiveness.
I really appreciate that even though you are a Nintendo fan, you do not look at this through rose tinted glasses and instead call it what it is. Online services on Switch remind me early days of Playstation Network, back when PS3 came out. These were super raw and Xbox Live was so far ahead that Sony was a laughing stock. But over time, they have improved it massively and best of all, it was always free. Cloud saves and games from PS+ were worth the fee and especially in later years, we got some very good indie titles as well as AAA games (say what you want about PS3 version of RDR, it was a huge deal when it dropped on PS+).
And this was about a decade ago.
Nintendo cannot even offer online services for Switch on par with the PSN from PS3 era. This is laughable and pitiful.
Not only they overcharge for subpar service, they are giving the games every Nintendo fan most likely have in their library. And ones that many people own on DSi, 3DS, Wii or Wii U. Even though it is trivial to allow people play these ROMs on Switch (because they are ROMs, sometimes taken off the web even...) in new emulator, they do not offer that.
Like, man, I got PS4 late (2018) but when I've heard that Resogun is coming to PS3, I was super happy and bought it. One of my favourite games of past decade. By buying it on PS3 I also got a version for my Vita and guess what... when I bought a PS4, it was there. And I know that it will be ready to download and play on PS5, when I get one, eventually.
Of course, this wasn't that common, but I would expect that making it possible to take a collection of NES, SNES etc. ROMs through generations should be given, considering that all they have to do to make it playable is to write an emulator. There is no per-title work needed.
Seeing how N64 games perform is another thing. Considering that Nintendo have access to documentation which was not available for community when they have been developing reverse engineered emulators, I would expect stellar quality.
Now, compare this to what Microsoft has done on a mere Xbox One with Xbox and Xbox 360 emulation... They have handled games at per title basis and even though the power gap between X360 and Xbox One is much smaller than between N64 and Switch (and by orders of magnitude!), Microsoft has managed to make the games run better than on original hardware!
Nintendo are cheapskates. Cheapskates who are out of touch.
games? great.
service? shit
@@somethingdumb3928 The games aren't even that good anymore...
The thing that annoys me is Nintendo does have a cornered market in a sense, that is to say a handheld market that can support this stuff. Phones and labtops can do this, but they're more bulky or inconvenient. Yet they feel that putting down the money in any capacity for the service still requires a weekly check in to keep access. It isn't the end of the world by a long shot given hotspots and active wifi nearly everywhere, but it's still obnoxious and it just makes me wish for the Virtual Console so I don't have to mess with this farce of a security check.
And yeah the community who nurture the emulation scene running circles around a company doing the bare minimum in many ways is depressing, that too.
I've used n64 emulation since I was a little kid, and to see that this official $50 a year emulator from Nintendo works FAR WROSE than 3rd party emulators that have been in development for years is just very disappointing. This shows how far behind Nintendo is, and the price range is showing how disconnected the company is from consumers. I'm not buying this service even if they fixed up the emulator. I think personally since the steam deck has retroarch with an n64 emulator, that I would consider buying that than keep paying Nintendo an annual fee and knowing that they don't give a shit about what consumer think about their services
Oh dude, don't pay for this service, fair enough if you're paying for the basic NSO membership, that's actually quite a good deal IMO, but 50 quid for... this? Yeah, hold out for that Steam Deck man, much better to make a one time big purchase and actually own something than to make a series of smaller purchases over several years and end up paying like ten times as much.
How far back? They literally made this emulator in a week or months time while others had years. Give Nintendo a break, they probably still have the same employees since 1996
@@iiTzSamurai not really, Nintendo made n64 emulators since the GameCube era with the Zelda collections that had oot and majora's mask in them, and even if they did make this within weeks or months before release that's not gonna be good to know bc it showed that Nintendo just rushed this out of that were the case. Not saying they did but this emulator is pretty rough compared to 3rd parties. And what makes you think that Nintendo still has the same employees from 1996? Do you even have evidence of that? Bc Nintendo is a muti-million company and they have many hqs around the world in various regions. And plus it's not the employees who make these discussions anyways, it's always the executive part of the company, the presidents and the ceos. The employees don't have a say on this, they just do what they are told, I'm not blaming the employees for making this, I'm blaming the higher ups for thinking this is worthy for a $50 annual subscription fee
@@blu_aaa They have no excuse if they can manage an elite team of Nintendo Ninjas. They can do it if they tried. Glad the steam deck is gonna raise competition. I love owning hardware I buy.
@@stonalisa3729 excatly, if they have the energy to constantly take down fan games/mods and romsites then they could have the energy to poor into making a better service. And I think after this the steam deck is def gonna have some competition to the switch bc first, it's more powerful and second, the large variety of games that are playable along with retroarch recently being released on steam. With that, saving for a steam deck is no brainier for me since I always dreamed of playing my favortive retro games like majoras mask and sonic 3 on the go, the switch might have the great exclusives but they can't compare to the quality that is gonna be the soon to be released steam deck
Things like this make me really glad I still have my original collection and a CRT.
same! We are the fortunate minority. Original hardware any day!
Crts are awesome. They are superior at playing old games and at the same time nostalgic.
Nothing beats the CTR ..i wish i could plug my Switch to it.
@@namordespuesdelnamor You can.
@@Bountyhunter108 yeah I think there's a company that makes HDMI to component adapters for TVs without HDMI ports and he/she can plug his/her Switch into a CRT with component.
What an excellent video. You addressed points like regarding the connection between images who were clearly divided in 4 parts. I noticed it too but didn’t see a TH-camr talking and showing the problem in a video.
Well observed and thank you for the great job. Thank you.
They should also get rid of those boarders when emulating games and replace it with just a black boarder especially for the oled
With the premium price of the service, I expected far better, especially with N64 emulation being around for over 20 years and is near perfection because of the emulation community. Along with the fact that NSO as a service isn't great on it's own, making you pay more for three things, only one of which is unique, makes the service worse than it already was sadly
N64 Emulation is nowhere near perfect
@@boscotheman82 For most of the games it is
@@FranciscoFJM it really isn't, it's acceptable but far from perfect, most games run at their intended speeds, but not perfect.
You expected better? From Nintendo? 😂
@@boscotheman82 n64 emulation on anything that isn’t a brick is pretty good in 2021. That’s why there are Chinese emulation stations running Dreamcast and ps1 around 60 frames with the right cfw and only minor bugs
They could have avoided most of the controversy if they just released these extra games as part of the regular service. Creating a new tier with a higher cost was a mistake.
For a %150 mark up no less
How is it a mistake? People still bought it, me included. Nintendo is going to make money as they should.
Sorry you broke bums cannot afford it
@@TheNerdypony it's more the fact the free stuff is better anyways so why would anyone buy it?
@@TheNerdypony Its not that we cant afford it, its just these games have been free and better quality for years so theres really no reason to pay them.
@@TheNerdypony I don't why you're defending Nintendo, you're just getting ripped off.
This video is so good. Thank you, MVG, for digging into the details and giving a full analysis.
Great work on this one. Some great detailed analysis and assessment. Thanks!
It's a service problem. Nintendo sees emulation as piracy, so they want to do it themselves. This won't cut it.
If Netflix was in 720P with a few movies, people simply will keep downloading movies illegally because pirates provide a better service (4K, more content).
With NSO, Nintendo wants to earn money from their old games (which is fine), but the amount of games and trash emulation compared to free community made emulators; Nintendo can't beat them, not even close.
You pay for something while the competition is available for free, with more content and better emulation. Nintendo should have made a top tier emulator that could beat the competition and add a ton of more games and this would have been awesome.
Props to Microsoft for actually improving games from Xbox and Xbox 360 on newer systems with better texture filtering, higher resolution and frame rate.
Nintendo should respect their legacy, this won't do it... at all.
(ps. I'm not saying that emulators are piracy, I'm just saying how Nintendo sees it)
I very much doubt Nintendo would ever make Netflix money off of NSO, Netflix is around $15 a month, NSO is a few bucks a month. Unfortunately there's zero incentive for Nintendo to dedicate resources to old games. I'm sure they're just doing it so they can say they've serviced their die hard fans.
@@Awnos I have no real reason to by NSO anyway, it's just an inferior version of Xbox Live that they expect you to pay for.
Even Microsoft does what Nintendon't.
@@SamSquids ok, don't buy it then.
@@Awnos they weren't going to
Thats the point of what they said-
"I wonder how this got through QA" Bold of you to assume that Nintendo listened to QA, which is bold of either of us to assume that there was QA at all.
What’s funny is the n64 emulation in super Mario 64 on the super Mario 3 pack was NOT a Nintendo developed product but was in fact a fan made emulator modified ever so slightly to remove any trace of its origins.
Hi there. Good video. But what I want to know is how about the latency lag on game controllers especially with regards to taking a screenshot or recording a video between the Xbox Series S and the Nintendo Switch OLED? Would love your advice please. Cheers.
Imagine having access to the entire N64 source code and you mess up an emulator…
@@matthias6933 Nintendo should've just hired some of the devs of muppen64 and call it a day.
@@alfredocanas6802 up until now, Nintendo hasn't had this much of a problem with emulation. It's like they accidentally released a beta build.
@@matthias6933 The entire N64 source code was leaked a while back, which means they _do_ have it. Ah, wait. You corrected yourself on that already.
@@TheAbsol7448
The fact that we have *proven* (albeit in a black-hat fashion) that Nintendo has all the source codes from their games and they *still* botch their emulation like this…
Either they’re woefully lazy, or they’re nefariously greedy. Or maybe those two go hand-in-hand?
How can someone "steal" data? It's infinitely copy able with 100% accuracy. That's like saying someone stole your homework when you can print another copy of it for 5 cents. A business doesn't have the excuse of "We forgot."
"Is it worth $30 a year" you don't own them, so no. Not at all.
One could say the same about "free" ps plus games. I didnt think the upgrade was worth it but you cant just talk like this is a new thing. Face it paying online for shit services is the norm now for console gamers.
@@MeowHoots still not worth it, regardless of norms
@@leaffinite3828 I agree with you it that it aint worth it lol I never said it was.
@@MeowHoots and they never said it was a new thing yet you still decided to argue with them like they did.
@@MeowHoots Bruh, it's been that way for at least the last two decades. Stockholm Syndrome on a digital level.
I can emulate these games on my phone pretty dang easily. Itd just be nice to be able to use any emulator I want on my switch because the screen is bigger and controls are nicer
Great video, I've been looking for something that sums up the emulator as a whole instead of just focusing on the two problem games. I was one of the few people who wasn't immediately put off by the price point but hearing how shoddy the actual product was put me off actually paying for the service. Maybe if they fix Mario 64 and OOT I'll sign up.
I really wonder if there are any “casual players” watching MVG, given how specialized and in-depth your channel is
Well this video is currently #32 on trending so I imagine that there are a lot of casual players that saw this video, at least.
Extremely casual player and I love these videos
Nice video. I would like to also mention that there are no time trials in Mario kart because they did not put in the work to emulate a memory card.
Wait... Really? You're shitting me.
@@beardalaxy Nintendo are lazy and just want money.
Yes, there is a Time Trial mode in Mario Kart 64. You just can't save your ghost. Insane, considering that you can create PS1/PS2 memory cards on the Playstation 3.
On the Framebuffer issue, I noticed while playing Mario Kart 64 on the Wario Raceway, I noticed that the framebuffer for the screen thats seen in the background of the player going around the track, I noticed that wasn't working properly and was frozen on a single frame the entire time of the player at the start of the race line track. I would imagine Nintendo going to do a patch update to the emulation over time once they've figured out the quirks and such for optimizing the game code emulation and fixing these minor issues, as well as addressing the input lag in such a way that doesn't impact how people expect to play games. I did notice a little input lag while playing Mario Tennis in some parts of the game.
Nintendo got the fog correct on the GameCube version of Ocarina of Time (just loaded it up to check). They've done this correctly before, and on much older hardware, there's no excuse for these mistakes in this day and age.
GameCube was peak Nintendo
@@Lucrei. Wii was about as good but it made Nintendo greedy.
Maybe they'll release a RAM expansion pack just like the actual N64 that you need to insert to get maximum emulation and blast processing or whatever.
Doubling RAM from 4MB to 8MB was a pretty big deal back then. Wasn't cost effective to include it in 1996, so it was smart to leave it an option for a few years later.
It will be a literal stick that comes in the mail and you stick it where the sun doesn't shine for extra immersion
Thats funny lol a literal Expansion pack that comes in the mail, to boost your N64 games. Knowing Nintendo, they would make it a downloadable RAM expansion pack for 49.95, and throw in an unreleased N64 game.
Should have included those games without additional cost to the base subscription. It's sad to see Nintendo becoming that greedy.
>becoming
Excellently constructed video and very informative, your channel is definitely worth a 'subscribe' after that.Keep 'em coming. 👍
I usually skip past the sponsored messages but that Displate looks Hella cool, I'll have to look into it. It's a shame the n64 emulation is so poor, I had hope that Nintendo was gonna do well with how Mario 3d All Stars ran.
I did the same. Stopped and checked it out. Looks pretty cool lol
The truly pitiful part about all this is that, as the actual hardware source owners, Nintendo could just build a 100% accurate emulator and sell it as a product
its even worse when existing n64 emulators are better than what they are able to do and they did not even have any source data
Great video. I'm surprised you didn't mention the lack of virtual memory card support affecting Mario Kart and Win Back. It's really sad to see the premium service receive minimum effort.
Penny: what are you doing Sheldon
Sheldon: I'm playing Mario 64 on a poorly coded emulator on the Nintendo Switch.
*Laugh track*
How do you remove the texture lines from the Character Select screen in MARIO KART 64? I have the 3-point filtering applied on Project 64, and the the texture lines are still there.
This just makes me appreciate more the work of Project64 devs
Re: 3-points texture filtering: Doom 64 on Switch implements it perfectly.
That's not emulation though it's a source port at least not the night dive release
@@Goldfire345 Yes Night Dive's release is a port, not emulation.
@@miltiadiskoutsokeras9189 The point is that it's trivial to implement with a minimal performance penalty. I've been using 3-point filter mode in GLideN64 on my 10 year old laptop. On both the NVidia NVS 4200M and Intel HD 3000 graphics there's no performance penalty from it. The Switch has more than enough capable shader cores in it's GPU to handle this.
@@Spaztron64 It is a different architecture but I get your point. It should be doable.
Yoo MVG on trending??? Congrats man
For me the problem wasn’t so much the problems with nintendo’s emulation. Honestly I wouldn’t have even noticed these things had they not been brought up here. But there’s no way I’m doubling my yearly price just so I can play a few extra games on the go.
Nintendo has always been the pits when it comes to their emulating N64 games. As far back as the original Wii their games we're broken concerning the terribly reproduced analogue range of the N64 stick. Even with best joypad option or even a real N64 controller and adaptor did not make for a faithful recreation of the this range. The Wii U version of F-zero was so bad regards to deadzone and range that controlling even remotely subtle movement was impossible. In the the end they had to patch it but even then it just played like the previously released Wii version ie still jittery enough to make subtle movement impossible unless by tippy tappy.
To this day Wii and WiiU N64 games such as Starfox and F-zero are bastards to play resulting in a much more jittery experience as you battle trying to get some form of control out of them. Waverace less so as you can play well enough even with digital thankfully
Nintendo are cunts when it comes to this stuff because they simply don't respect these games enough expecting most people not to notice these control issues. And in most cases people don't unfortunately because they've either got shitty controllers that they use on real hardare or have simply moved on and forgotten how good the N64's range of movement actually was on a good working pad
Anyway shame on Nintendo for allowing for it in the first place
At least Wii VC's only major issue for a lot of games was control stick mapping. Everything after it has had issues piling up without even the smallest attempts to fix them.
@@Frank_Erz I've always heard Nintendo the company (not the genius behind the games such Shigeru Miyamoto) hate the Nintendo 64 era games because it was their first console not to win a console war and it made far less money for them.
@@Frank_Erz Free emulators solved this, I'm pretty sure. If Nintendo can't do better work than people working for free, they have issues. The games being free (piracy) isn't the only element of emulation. If Nintendo can't figure this out, they deserve to fail in this endeavour.
Not to mention the ugly darkening filter they applied to all VC games that leads to poor colour reproduction especially on the Wii.
@@alfo2804 yeah aint that the truth
4:09 when i fiddled more with emulators back in the day i remember always going crazy about how Ocarina of Time froze every time i killed one of those plants as i used to believe the emulator was to blame
I noticed the input lag on Mario 64 from the first jump; it just doesn't feel right. I'm not a speed runner by any means, but there is a notable difference even for a relatively casual gamer like me.
was there an update from launch? because I remember seeing videos of the jumbotron and it just being a static image and not moving. Weird its working for you.
MVG spitting straight facts today...also every day as usually anyway
This is true lol
Nintendo: Our games are very valuable to us that's why we charge so much
Also Nintendo: puts literally the bare bones effort into putting in N64 emulation that's still somehow worse than the basic N64 emulation you can find online
Or their emulation on Wii U or Wii. Or even gamecube, where they warned about stuff possibly being glitchy.
Customer: so how much do you charge for this game? I’m willing to pay-
Nintendo: it’s not for sale! Just pay a yearly fee, and you’ll get something.
Nintendo: So we didn't include the XML file on the Wii U enabling GameCube games to be played because of a lack of dedicated controller/memory card/disc ports. Nor did we port anything to the eShop.
Also Nintendo: Ocarina of Time running at 10fps? That'll be $20 +$30 tip, thanks for the business.
@@SumeaBizarro yeah this is the key point. This isn't just a step backwards from the fan community. This a step backwards from Nintendo's own past offerings.
It's seems like they needed to cost reduce and it was okay for them that it came at the expense of accuracy - it's a shame though that it's also bringing down the legacy of their own IP, and this is an obvious loss of value for any company in the long run.
I can't believe you called it 'Kokiriki village"!
Informative. I didn’t go into the Multiplayer but did have a quick go at Mario Tennis, that was fun.
We’ll see if Nintendo does deal with these issues.
People really surprised that Nintendo's emulation effort is subpar to community effort? Have we not seen their Mario 64? The PC version done by the community is miles ahead
Not the same thing, pc version is a port. Nintendo could absolutely do that if they wanted to as well, but you're putting emulation and ports in the same category when they're not. Compare Nintendo's emulator to 3rd party emulators for comparison.
@@beardalaxy i mean, isn’t Mario 64 also supposed to be a port?
No one forced them to use N64 emulator to begin with.
@@cunnyman I think what he’s implying is that the goal of the official N64 emulator is to match the original as much as possible. What we saw on PC some time ago, while yes it is superior with many enhancements, it’s not in the original frame rate or the original ratio. Therefore, it doesn’t truly match a proper emulator or the original hardware.
(Edit: and the flaw we see with NSO is that it is not proper either, even though it’s trying to be. Typical modern emulators are better at mocking the original as of now. Virtual console was better too.)
@@beardalaxy my point is the effort aspect of Nintendo. I realize ones a port and the other is emulated. Imo 3D all Stars should of been ports and more effort should of been put in, overall Nintendo's efforts are definitely subpar for the price they're asking for these things.
@@bitbybrick1080 yup pretty much
The community emulators are decades ahead, god bless em.
There are only a couple that are actually good. Most have some kind of audio or graphical/performance issues.
@@Gambit2483 One good one is all you need.
@@Tom-jw7ii ok but only one is actually legal, and portable.
It works just fine. Could it use patches? Sure absolutely...but no need to make it sound like the games are borderline unplayable or something. Also it has online, something no one emulators have. Is it perfect? No. Does it work as intended? Yes, absolutely.
@@Gambit2483 Huh, TH-cam deleted my second comment for some reason. Anyway, regarding the legality, all I have to say is “who cares lol.” The only way it could possibly hurt the copyright holders (not even the developers) is extremely nebulous and indirect. And no one has ever experienced legal repercussions for downloading roms.
I don’t think it’s worth getting upset over video games being bad or overpriced, but $30 per year for a handful of games with mediocre emulation is just totally not worth it. Netplay is not a unique feature. Project64 has had netplay since forever ago. The only thing this service has over unofficial emulators is the UI.
This is bad but I wouldn't say this about community emulation either for N64
I’m waiting for the disk drive add on. Great vid.
the only nso review i needed to see
impeccable job as usual MVG !
cheers
I trust a mans opinion that knows emulation. I think I'll be holding off on n64 games even tho the wife and son wanted to upgrade to the expansion pack. You'd thunk Nintendo would be the best at emulating their own games in any system
Get your family what they want.
Don't believe this video's bs. They have to make a big deal out of things to make videos.
Who cares about frame rates?
I have the N64 on Switch. I have had no problems at all.
@@TheNerdypony To be fair alot of people. Each person should decide for themselves and honestly nintendos trash at emulating their own games. I wouldnt even buy sm64 for the switch Id much rather run the fan made port on it or use an n64 emu on it.
@@TheNerdypony enjoy your expensive turd subscription
@@Nobbie248 Super convenient.
Works perfectly fine.
Stop letting stupid TH-camrs make decisions for you.
Money no problem.
After hearing about all this, I can’t help but wonder if Nintendo did take the initiative to actually produce and release the N64 Classic Mini like we were all hoping for, would the emulation on the N64 Classic Mini pretty much been that of what’s the current state of the N64 Expansion Pack? Worst than the PSOne Classic Mini maybe?
I doubt it. The NES and SNES Classic Editions are still some of the best official ways to emulate those games - the emulation is leagues better than Virtual Console, which was the only other option at the time.
The emulation quality of the mini consoles then became the standard for what was used in NSO. If they had made an N64 Classic Edition, then I bet it would've meant that the NSO emulation would've been _better_ than this.
At least we now know why they didn't make an N64 mini, though: they can't even get it right on a Switch, so they probably had no luck getting it to work on a glorified Raspberry Pi.
The #1 request I want Nintendo to do with this n64 program as well as Xbox with their game pass:
*MAKE IT WIDESCREEN!!!*
Its not hard.
Would be cool if you made a video about Sega Genesis on Nintendo Switch Online, specially comparing it to the Genesis Classics on Switch and the other platforms.
MVG should be hired to solve this and bring quality to the service: his work on Shantae and Quake speaks for itself.
MVG uploading a video with Mario on the thumbnail and big bold text, "I made this."
Too early for brown nosing dude
And Doom 64
he isnt good enough to fix this
@@blitzwing1 Didn't the virtual console games on the wii and wii u emulate better than what this expansion offers? Switch should be at least as good as that I would think, not worse.
Wow, this is rough. Imagine having emulators made by the community that work infinitely better than the ones developed by the official Nintendo team. This is just sad. I'm sure it'll get better "eventually", but people who paid over double the price of the original NSO subscription are gonna be stuck playing these inferior versions of the games for weeks, or maybe even months until Nintendo fixes this. What a mess
No they're not, because nobody's gonna buy this garbage
I mean it still costs half the price of ps plus and gives you more extras then just online
@@FelixCokeBlume Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but in the US, PS Plus only costs 60 bucks for year, while NSO + Expansion Pack is 50 bucks for a year (or 80 bucks for the family version)
If you're only comparing it to the base version of NSO, then sure, it's only 20 bucks for a year, which is only a third of PS Plus, but you also get almost nothing apart from online play.
Base NSO only allows you to play NES and SNES games, while you have the service. PS Plus gives you monthly free games that you can then play FOREVER, even after your subscription ends. Sure, not all of the free PS Plus games are hitters, but neither are all of the NES/SNES games.
But at least PS Plus lets you OWN the games they give you, and some of the titles on offer are going to be modern releases from big budget developers; not the random scraps that Nintendo found in their back catalogue of NES games.
@@kryzethx Don't condone Nintendo at all, they created a shit show but the without PS plus part is incorrect. You own them as long as your subscription is active unless you paid something towards them. Cancel and restart a few months later again? You can play them. Cancel and don't restart? You can't access the license.
I'd love to have the convenience of playing these games on my Switch, but instead, I'm playing the remakes under Citra (for the Zelda games anyway). Nintendo really just needs to re-release the 3DS versions for the Switch. They have them, made, and just need some porting.
Nice video. Now I have to agree some of the things will not bother me but I will be bothered by a few things on the new switch. However always be careful and know that nothing is perfect. Good video.
Here come the rise of N64 cartridge prices to go up even more after this announcement.
Came for the “ohcareener” and “coca-reeky village”, stayed for the excellent technical breakdown of the emulation.
No you didn't.
I’m not a native English speaker, which accent is this?
Came for the excellent technical breakdown of the emulation, stayed for the "ohcareener".
Yes ocoariner of time and Kocariki village
The jumbotron in mario kart 64 wasnt working for me and my brother while playing online, making me wonder what other bugs or emulation errors could occur online lol
would running retroarch on a homebrew switch be better?
I was really looking forward to this when first announced, then they announced the prices and I decided against it. Hearing how poor the N64 emulation runs I'm glad I made that decision
Great discussion. This was the video I was waiting for after the launch of the service, where you show the real behind the scenes of what they are offering.
After emulating N64 for many years, I’m finally settled with original hardware
I really hope they fix the input lag for OoT and SM64, it's so frustrating
Any chance for a video about the Genesis/Mega Drive emulator in this expansion pack compared to digital eclipse Genesis collection? There is no video about it at all it seems. Would really appreciate the info. Take it easy.
Glad to know it should be good enough for the casual like myself, but I'm thankful you put it this kind of closer analysis.
Just on principle Nintendo really should be offering something on par with the enthusiasts emulators, at minimum as you said.
Kokiriki Village is my favorite place now (but with actual fog)
*Kakaro Forest
@@3dmarth *Karaoke Forest
@@rtyuik7 I was just reminded that my uncle used to call it Coconut-Head Forest.
@MVG You point out that this might be the exact same emulator as that seen for Super Mario 3D all-stars right? Well the version of Mario 64 in 3D all-stars has decent fog and the Nintendo online version doesn't. This is interesting as that would mean that the emulator is capable of rendering decent fog but for some reason they left it out on the Nintendo 64 Online service.
Or perhaps someone messed up on their end. I hope that is the case and that they decide to fix it as some point
I would also like to say that yes we have Mupen64 Retroarch core on the Switch but while it's a much more accurate emulator, it's a not always a good option.
Many games do not run at acceptable speeds with framebuffer emulation enabled, especially not without both overclocking CPU and GPU to high heaven.
I am very curious to see how Majoras Mask will perform on Nintendos N64 emulator. Will it run at full speed with all the FBA effects, a higher resolution withough an overclock?
If it does well that is enough for me to not play that game on Retroarch anymore.
yo! you've made it to the sponsors level now? nice! don't remember if you had one before
i have tried both retroarch and this on my switch and iv decided to go back to retroarch plays so much better and in full screen.
Appreciate the thoughts on this. I saw the news about it and wondered about all the issues people were seeing and not just that dark link fight screenshot. Good stuff
Legit sponsor spot. I actually watched it as I haven’t seen these yet. so tired of Brilliant, raycons, man shave stuff ehhhhh. Good stuff MVG!!
i've been watching so many british youtube creators that "okareener" now sounds like the proper way to say ocarina