Star Trek Retro Review: "Space Seed" (TOS) | The Augments

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  • @tuttt99
    @tuttt99 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +88

    I really liked Chekov's performance in this episode.

    • @carycharlebois5965
      @carycharlebois5965 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      "I don't know you... But you... I never forget a face... Even one I have never seen before..."

    • @Marcsharp82
      @Marcsharp82 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Definitely not forgettable. I bet Khan will remember him.

    • @PaulHFleming
      @PaulHFleming วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      That's strange since Chekov never appears episode. And yet in Star Trek movie Khan remembers his face?

    • @ZiddersRooFurry
      @ZiddersRooFurry วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      @@PaulHFleming That's the joke.

    • @Ohforgodssakethatsme
      @Ohforgodssakethatsme วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      @@tuttt99 It was a flawless performance. Even the most persnickety critic could find no fault with it.

  • @Relius70
    @Relius70 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +58

    One of my favorite thing about these videos is the way you can poke fun at the episodes various short comings during the episode summary and then give it a glowing review. These days there are a lot of 'parody as review' channels who's decisive mockery serve as the only review provided.😊

  • @Ohforgodssakethatsme
    @Ohforgodssakethatsme 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +105

    Given all the duplicate Earths, the time travel, the ancient ships, etc., I'm surprised the Enterprise didn't have a full team of historians permanently assigned to every landing party.

    • @Maniac536
      @Maniac536 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      That’s actually a really good point. The enterprise-d did have historians don’t know about the original

    • @alanbear6505
      @alanbear6505 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      I was going to bring up the same point. Given the number of Nazi planets and alternate timeline Earths, and the Enterprise also could have seen a small percentage of them, yeah, a historian makes sense.

    • @johnabbe
      @johnabbe วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@Maniac536 Federation research at the Daystrom Institute tracks the number of historians on a capital ship, with the number of temporal incursions, and gets a pretty good match. Most ships are looking to add a few more historians as news of the quantum fissure spreads. At 24th century Starfleet, cadets joke it's the easy way to guarantee a posting. ;-)
      (32nd century Starfleet is after the Temporal Wars, so all that multiverse stuff has presumably died down.)

  • @jpolowin0
    @jpolowin0 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    "Gentlemen, this romanticism about a ruthless dictator is..."
    "Mr. Spock, there were people that were very fine people on both sides."

  • @TheWanderingFire
    @TheWanderingFire 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +55

    If Kirk had kept McGivers on board for discipline instead of dropping her off with Khan, Starfleet would not have lost track of that new colony.
    Always respect your historians, archivists, and librarians.

  • @Lou-Mae
    @Lou-Mae 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +98

    i am not sure whether the weird audio issues are my end or are in the video. it seems to be whenever you switch to a cut involving video from a new source.

    • @dkSilo
      @dkSilo 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      I hear it too.

    • @banjohero1182
      @banjohero1182 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      yeah it's on Steve's end

    • @jonathankleinow2073
      @jonathankleinow2073 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      I noticed that too. It gets muffled for a few seconds.

    • @TypoKnig
      @TypoKnig 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Me, too. Or five - I lost count

    • @FreyasArts
      @FreyasArts 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Same, sounds like sometimes he is further away from the mic or like a cloth or something is muffling the sound sometimes

  • @princemasai472
    @princemasai472 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +55

    Superior Gene!!! I'm dying over here!!!😂😂

    • @TrumbullComic
      @TrumbullComic 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      It's funny 'cause it's true!

  • @HebaruSan
    @HebaruSan 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    I never thought much about his age before you mentioned it, Steve! If Khan is around 30, and the Eugenics Wars were in the 90s, then the advanced genetic engineering that produced him must already have been ongoing in the 60s! It's not just the 90s that need some serious retconning, almost from the very moment this episode first aired.

  • @plumos67
    @plumos67 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +77

    Chekov was a lower-decker, I guess? Still, it's nice to know that Khan will never forget his face and put a bug in it.

    • @coletteb.8889
      @coletteb.8889 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

      My favorite fan theory of all time is that Chekov was in the bathroom and Kahn, who really needed to use it after his 200 year sleep, was banging on the door trying to hurry him up. When Chekov finally opened the door Khan memorized his face before rushing in and vowed revenge.
      When asked about it Walter Koenig said he was the only person who remembered that Chekov wasn't in that episode, but didn't say anything because then he would probably get a smaller part. When asked about the above theory specifically I think he said something along the lines of "I don't know, that could have happened."

    • @DamienPalmer
      @DamienPalmer 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      @@coletteb.8889 I've always had a need to fill in the empty time between scenes and episodes. We don't see every moment of every character's life in the episodes. I really like oblique references to inconsequential off-screen events.

    • @TexasCat99
      @TexasCat99 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      ​@@coletteb.8889makes sense. I believe that is canon.

    • @kaitlyn__L
      @kaitlyn__L วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      @@coletteb.8889 on my TWOK DVD special features, Koenig tells that story as if it was his own idea, haha. It's possible a fan asked him it first and he adopted it himself :)

    • @robertmccarthy2254
      @robertmccarthy2254 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      checkov is a living time paradox due to having died at the ok Coral. Also you THINK he was'nt on the cartoon BUT he WAS both M RESS and Erix (smile)

  • @robertkluck1510
    @robertkluck1510 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    The " do not under any circumstances 'gotta hand hand it to him'" reference hit me like a truck, well set up

  • @stevechudomelka7301
    @stevechudomelka7301 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    Mr Grant: "You got spunk!" Mary Richards: "Oh! Thank you!" Mr Grant: "I HATE SPUNK!" 🤣

  • @francoislacombe9071
    @francoislacombe9071 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    The TOS episode never mentions genetic engineering. Khan and his followers are explicitely said to the product of selective breeding in a eugenics project. The genetic engineering angle first appears in the movie, an update brought about by advances in biotech in the years between the two stories. Retconning Khan as a genetically engineered individual instead of the result of selective breeding actually made sense. Considering how slowly humans reproduce, there realistically would not have been time to create such advanced individuals with selective breeding methods in the short time eugenics had existed.

  • @dataportdoll
    @dataportdoll วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Kirk: Anyway, here's our ship's computer, uh, did you have internet porn in your time?
    Khan: I'm from 1996.
    Kirk: Ah you're gonna love it, don't let me keep you.

  • @jonathanfairchild833
    @jonathanfairchild833 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    The warning against letting yourself slip into the dictator admiration trap, even begrudgingly, is always apt.

    • @PaulHFleming
      @PaulHFleming วันที่ผ่านมา

      Strange how fiction can become fact, the recent 2nd election of Donald Trump to US President

  • @CynthiaWarren
    @CynthiaWarren 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    Ricardo Montalban was a Latin lover in movies before he came to Star Trek. So being charming wasn't hard for him. Khan wasn't just charming, though. He frightened McGivers into working with him because he hurt her and then basically threatened to abandon her if she didn't. She was so enamored with him that she practically begged him to let her help him commandeer the ship. Her infatuation with Khan actually enabled his abuse of her within hours of meeting him. Quite frightening, really.

    • @EricMcConnaughey
      @EricMcConnaughey 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      We'd probably call it an abusive, codependent relationship.

  • @krazyglue60
    @krazyglue60 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Every time I see Khan destroy the phaser, I picture Irving Feinberg having a coronary. I can just imagine his reaction to the very idea. “You want Khan to do WHAT with a phaser??” 😱

  • @mymthegreyful
    @mymthegreyful 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +45

    As i've grown older ( 71 ...geezezus) i've come to realize that BONES is the one i should have had a crush on all those year ago when i was a dumb McGivers of a teen ager.

    • @Tolly7249
      @Tolly7249 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      McCoy and Spock are so damn sexy. Intelligence, hell yeah!

    • @user-mg5mv2tn8q
      @user-mg5mv2tn8q 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Hey, speaking as a 100% hetero male, if I'd been on the Enterprise when Spock went into pon farr and needed his itch scratched, I'd have said, however belatedly and reluctantly, "Well, if it's for the overall good ..."

    • @mymthegreyful
      @mymthegreyful วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@Tolly7249 They are the actual " ship " in the show too.

    • @PaulHFleming
      @PaulHFleming วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      Doctor McCoy got best lines entire episode. At the end when Khan released him said, " I just wanted to avoid an argument" 😅😂

  • @finnmcool2
    @finnmcool2 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +25

    There is a reason why eugenics turmoil was written as the problem coming closest to the time of writing. The writers were old enough to remember the atrocities committed by the American Eugenics Movement. Mass castrations and tubal ligations forced onto prisoners and patients of asylums are a couple highlights.
    For extra credit: Why isn't this taught in schools and rarely talked about at all in our society?

    • @admanios
      @admanios 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Racism

    • @finnmcool2
      @finnmcool2 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      @@admanios I was thinking shame, but you most likely got a lot of it. Plenty of people of all ethnicities got snipped, though. The eugenicists had their fingers in pretty much every horror of the first half of the 20th century.

    • @admanios
      @admanios 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@finnmcool2 yeah, except that at the core of it was racism. Look at the Tuskegee experiment. The forced sterilization of Latin women. Hell, the Nazis used the treatment of indigenous people by the US and Canada as their model for ethnic cleansing.

    • @AzaleaJane
      @AzaleaJane 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      I imagine it's because in the USA we like to fashion ourselves as anti-fascist and anti-eugenics since we fought the Nazis. The fact that Nazis were inspired by American eugenicists really messes with that narrative.

  • @JustMe-dc6ks
    @JustMe-dc6ks 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +21

    Do you think Spock kept casually steering conversations around to various ruthless dictators for weeks after this?

  • @BS-vx8dg
    @BS-vx8dg 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

    I don't think it's all that strange (Steve's point at 15:23) that no one recognizes Khan. First of all, "Khan" is an extremely common name. Secondly, in an odd StarTrekian twist, it turns out that all images of Khan available in the 23rd century looked less like Mr. Roarke and more like Sherlock Holmes.

  • @kennysp666
    @kennysp666 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    12:51 I am positive that dropping off an rvil despot on a planet will have absolutely no reprecussions in the future. Good plan, Kirk!

    • @kevinkeeney9418
      @kevinkeeney9418 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      1. Drop off despot on planet.
      2. Ignore for 20 years.
      3. ???
      4. Profit!

  • @BaronVonFisticuffs
    @BaronVonFisticuffs วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    5:30 "I mean, last time this happened, it was my buddy Gary and nothing bad resulted from it. Browse away!"

  • @Tolly7249
    @Tolly7249 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    I'm so glad I got to see this episode before Wrath of Khan. That Khan is legendary, yes, but I prefer his more subtle and cunning portrayal here. Montalban absolutely owns every scene he's in.
    Uhura and McCoy and Spock all get the 'most badass' award for this episode. Uhura gets literally smacked down and refuses to take a second of it. McCoy faces his immenent death with ice-cold calmness. Spock has no patience for dictators or tyrants and is completely baffled by their admirers, which is an AUTISTIC MOOD.

  • @mikerhodes8454
    @mikerhodes8454 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    You forgot to mention the scene where Khan wanted to use the space toilet, but had to wait because Chekov cut ahead of him and that's why Khan "never forgets a face" is Star Trek 2.

  • @benjiskyler7836
    @benjiskyler7836 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +50

    Could all this have been avoided by way of Spock making a phone call? And being like, "Yo, La'an, is this the guy you were always telling us about? I'm pretty sure he is, but your almost-boyfriend from that time everyone was singing hasn't figured it out yet. You know what? Never mind, I'll ask Zachary Quinto or Leonard Nimoy."

  • @StormsparkPegasus
    @StormsparkPegasus 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +74

    This may be the last time Shatner saw Ricardo Montalban in person. They did not see each other at all in Star Trek 2...their scenes were recorded separately, and Shatner was talking to a stand-in when filming the movie.

    • @jonathankleinow2073
      @jonathankleinow2073 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      Was that by Ricardo Montalban's request? He was famously genial and easy to get along with, in the same way William Shatner is famously not.

    • @applesaurusrex8075
      @applesaurusrex8075 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

      @@jonathankleinow2073i imagine it was a coincidence but i don’t think montalban would’ve been that upset by ut

    • @StormsparkPegasus
      @StormsparkPegasus 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +31

      @@jonathankleinow2073 No, it was just due to scheduling conflicts. He wasn't able to be on set with the rest, and his scenes had to be filmed separately.
      EDIT: I just looked it up. He was a regular on a show called Fantasy Island while Star Trek 2 was being filmed. Thus the scheduling conflict.

    • @silmarian
      @silmarian 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      @@jonathankleinow2073I doubt it. The script never had them in the same room, and if a character isn’t on screen (or will be added in post, as when Khan was on the view screen) they will usually use a stand-in because it’s a lot cheaper than having the stars on set. In fact, a lot of the time unless you see an actor’s face there’s a good chance it’s a body double, hand double, etc.

    • @FlintReadUK
      @FlintReadUK 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      They met on set for publicity shots and apparently got on well enough. Ricardo could not be there for most of the scenes as he was still shooting fantasy Island and so had to have separate sessions most of the time.

  • @TheMarcHicks
    @TheMarcHicks 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Just as with Past Tense, I have never been too bothered about the "realism"/"continuity" of the Star Trek timeline. I always assumed-back in the late 80s and early 90s, that Star Trek takes place in a reality where humanity's obsession with space travel didn't all but end with the Moon Landings.

  • @ShinGallon
    @ShinGallon วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    1:55 Reviewing one of my favorite episodes AND a BoJack Horseman reference? You spoil me!
    I always loved McCoy's reaction to Kahn holding the scalpel to his throat. Balls of pure neutronium, that one.
    I love watching old sci-fi and hearing about how in the 80s/90s when humanity had interstellar travel and cloning tech and I'm like "Oh old sci-fi, bless you, you had such high hopes for us" and then I remember it was all written before Reagan ruined everything.

  • @deanthemachine8879
    @deanthemachine8879 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +32

    A character named McIvers and not *ONE* MacGyver joke? Okay, who are you and what have you done with Steve Shives?

    • @PaulHFleming
      @PaulHFleming วันที่ผ่านมา

      Maybe Steve just not a MacGuyver fan? I never watched show myself either

    • @deanthemachine8879
      @deanthemachine8879 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      @ I mean, he made a playlist devoted to MacGyver with 10 videos in it 🤷🏻‍♂️

    • @kunstwert
      @kunstwert วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@deanthemachine8879 #youdidnotgetit

    • @DawnDavidson
      @DawnDavidson 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Right??? I wondered the same thing! 😂😂😂

  • @Daniko2
    @Daniko2 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    While Lt. McGivers' behavior always bugged the ever-livin' heck out of me, the episode was awesome. My only quibble was that it would have been nice to have someone other than the one whose job description was "rational stick-in-the-mud" push back on the dictator worship. But that's so minor. It was a great TOS episode.

  • @rmeddy
    @rmeddy 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    That moment with Khan and McCoy is the best

    • @JarodCain
      @JarodCain 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      It's one of my favorite McCoy moments that shows how cold and very Vulcan McCoy can be.

  • @jahipalmer8782
    @jahipalmer8782 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    I've been watching your videos all day as I worked from home. I just now noticed that this is a new video and therefore am leaving a comment.

  • @tdpitt
    @tdpitt 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    Applauding for the "Mary Tyler Moore Show" throwback. Good writing there.

  • @sanityisrelative
    @sanityisrelative 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +37

    If Voyager hadn't insisted on going back in time to actual "modern era" 1996 I don't think they would have needed to "fix" the timeline and push the Eugenics Wars back decades.

    • @user-mg5mv2tn8q
      @user-mg5mv2tn8q 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

      Greg Cox did an excellent job of explaining how the Eugenics Wars did take place in the 1990s, in his two-part novel The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonian Singh. As he tells it, the war was kept entirely covert and behind the scenes so as not to motivate the world population into uniting and opposing him.The genetic supermen achieved power, not openly, but through puppet leaders. And it was Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln who were his most troubling foes, and who ultimately manipulated the supermen out of power and left them with no choice but to flee the Earth.

    • @kevinkeeney9418
      @kevinkeeney9418 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I dunno. There are some pretty aggressive wars going on right now that aren't cramping Americans' lifestyles. The Eugenics Wars were on a bigger scale, but they were still on the other side of the planet.

    • @lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286
      @lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Another notch in "everything bad about Star Trek is Voyager's fault."

    • @RobynHoodeofSherwood
      @RobynHoodeofSherwood 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@user-mg5mv2tn8q I really enjoyed those books. Good spy thrillers.

  • @John73John
    @John73John 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    12:11 Kirk pulled the fast-food restaurant's ketchup dispenser plunger out of the counter, and used it as a weapon. More of that improvisation he learned about when he was fighting the Gorn a few episodes ago.

    • @darkyno6138
      @darkyno6138 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Lol. That pipe looked as hollow and light as a pvc tube, not something that would knock out anyone, much less Kahn.

  • @citrinedragonfly
    @citrinedragonfly 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    I came to "Space Seed" after seeing "Wrath of Khan" many times on TV with my dad, and I was so hyped to see the initial meeting of Kirk and Khan. It did not disappoint. It was one of the first TOS episodes I saw once I got into Star Trek in middle school with TNG - I'd seen "Wrath of Khan" before I knew what Star Trek actually was and enjoyed it a lot. It was thanks to my dad talking about the show, and my then-best friend sitting me down to watch TNG over dinner at her house, and then us watching a bunch of VHS tapes her mom had of earlier TNG. I got very into Trek after that, and it essentially became my entire personality in middle school. I was always sad when the conventions were announced in the area and Montalban wasn't a guest, because I loved his portrayal of Khan so much (almost as sad as I was that Walter Koenig was never a guest in my area, because I adored Chekov). Still, one of the conventions I went to had a few of the actresses who played Khan's followers, and they had some fun stories about filming. I wish I remembered them now, but it was over 30 years ago at one of the bigger conventions in South Florida, where I grew up. I remember the more local conventions a lot more clearly, especially the ones at our community college's library, since I volunteered at those. I wasn't allowed to volunteer at the big conventions.

    • @nightfall3605
      @nightfall3605 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Your history resembles mine. An uncle I didn’t like adored ST:TOS so I hated it on principle. Then in high school my best friend introduced me to the books (omg, Diane Duane!) right as TNG was starting. We watched the movies that were available before I ever saw actual episodes.
      By the 90s the production value of TOS was in stark contrast to TNG, but the books were able to deliver on the potential introduced by those pioneers in the 60s. It’s amazing how having the right fan next to you changes your appreciation.

  • @Marcsharp82
    @Marcsharp82 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Assuming La'an Noonien Singh survives SNW I can imagine the scene going like this
    Kirk: "Hey La'an how's things at Starfleet security? Listen we could use some help, we've found an Augment calling himself Khan and.."
    La'an: "It's Khan Noonien Singh"
    Kirk:" How can you tell? We haven't sent a picture yet"
    La'an:"Fine send a picture (Looks at picture)... It's Khan Noonien Singh"
    Kirk:" oh...Do you mind if I take credit for uncovering this? I've got a reputation to maintain....hello?....hello?
    Kirk stares at blank screen.

  • @chrisholds1
    @chrisholds1 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    This is a terrific video! Thanks for the humorous synopsis of the episode and discussion of how it influenced so much more beyond this single episode.

  • @melenatorr
    @melenatorr 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    17:21 - As a lover of history myself, and someone who's always been interested in outstanding figures of either positive or negative achievement, I can understand McGivers' fascination - especially given her apparent sidelining here on the Enterprise (my head canon is that Kirk resents her because she isn't fascinated with him). Her easy fall into Kahn's aura has never bothered me ... and, I mean, come on: It's Ricardo Montalban! Who could resist?

    • @ProuvaireJean
      @ProuvaireJean 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      My favourite line in the episode for sheer audacity: "My name is Khan. Please sit and entertain me."

    • @DerMannDerSeineMutterwar
      @DerMannDerSeineMutterwar 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      I agree. I mean instantly falling for a historic figure I'd one step much but being fascinated by it feels to me very natural.
      Like who wouldn't like to meet some people from history? Talk to them about their times and experiences.
      And on the other side if a young rockstar of the 70s would somehow be ported into our times... better than historic dictators.

    • @melenatorr
      @melenatorr 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@DerMannDerSeineMutterwar Infinitely better! Oh, and I'd learn some German if I could talk to Beethoven or Mozart.

    • @DerMannDerSeineMutterwar
      @DerMannDerSeineMutterwar 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      @@melenatorr I would offer to translate xD
      But talking about inviting people from history for let's say an interesting tea party, I guess I would choose the weird combination of Jesus, Marx and Einstein.
      And if it's historic musicians to flirt with it would be young Boey or Freddy Mercury.

    • @melenatorr
      @melenatorr 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@DerMannDerSeineMutterwar I like it! Can we also invite Wallenberg, Diderot and Niels Bohr? He and Einstein can continue their mind puzzles in case they don't want to mingle, and Diderot can be social enough for both of them.

  • @RichKronfeld
    @RichKronfeld 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    I'm always struck by how Montalban actually looks bigger when he plays Khan. When he was Mr Roarke and in all the old films he made, he appears as a normal size person, but as Khan, he looks a lot bigger, more intimidating.

    • @demorgenstern7680
      @demorgenstern7680 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      :Acting!
      :Brilliant!
      :Thank You!

    • @markam67
      @markam67 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Well acting and the way they filmed him. There is a lot they can do to make him look taller and more impressive.

  • @st.anselmsfire3547
    @st.anselmsfire3547 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

    "Wrath of Khan" is "The Dark Knight" of Star Trek movies. A great film on its own merits, but, unfortunately, the Powers That Be took some of the worst lessons from it. You know how, after "The Dark Knight," it seemed like 90% of villains "just want to watch the world burn"? Well, after "The Wrath of Khan," it seemed like the big bosses behind Star Trek were obsessed with recreating it. This led to one solid action flick (Into Darkness) and one horrendous one (Nemesis).
    I do have to say, though, that one thing I love about this particular episode is how it showed that McCoy is, in fact, a total badass. I like how it implies that this is a man with "history." He looks a genetically-engineered super soldier in the eye and says, "Do it, pussy. I fucking dare you."

    • @jeffbenson7278
      @jeffbenson7278 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      No, sorry, it might be true to say The Dark Knight is the Star Trek II of Batman films, except Star Trek II is good and The Dark Knight is .... not.

  • @cheddarssalad1230
    @cheddarssalad1230 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    It’s unreasonable to expect tv costume departments in the 60s to accurately anticipate fashion 30 years into their future but I really wish Khan and his crew all wore babydoll dresses, cargo shorts and graphic tees with gangster Tweetie Birds on the back. Wallet chains and checkered belts are optional.

    • @user-mg5mv2tn8q
      @user-mg5mv2tn8q 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      All their uniforms could have been avocado or pumpkin, the two ugliest clothing colors in fashion history, but which somehow became popular in the 90s.

    • @queenannsrevenge100
      @queenannsrevenge100 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      Could have been all plaid and denim instead, with long shaggy hair and talking about how much better it was when Cobain was alive.

  • @Yteranger
    @Yteranger 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    Spocks conversation with everyone hits different now. Its just like conversations we've all probably had with Trump supporters we work with.

  • @FukugawaUtake
    @FukugawaUtake 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I had a chance to take a trip on one of those DY100 sleeper ships in the late 1990s, it was so exciting! Unfortunately I woke up from that dream and nearly 30 years later I'm still on earth.

  • @howtoappearincompletely9739
    @howtoappearincompletely9739 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    I've never seen this episode (shock! horror! surprise!), but it strikes me as out-of-character that Spock was the one who gave the "no, you must *not* admire that guy" speech; that doesn't seem either subtle of logical to me, and would've been a speech more in keeping with McCoy's character.

  • @wellingtonsmith4998
    @wellingtonsmith4998 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    watch Space Seed as a kid disturbed me, everyone was fawning over Khan and 7 year old brain was all "why are my hero's loving this guy who treats women like that?"

    • @flyingfoamtv2169
      @flyingfoamtv2169 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      You had the intended reaction. Its supposed to be disturbing, as it demonstrates how the reverence for big personalities is destructive.

  • @festalongreyhawkshorts4sho645
    @festalongreyhawkshorts4sho645 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    Would you believe my 1st star trek experience was Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan? I hadn't watched any episodes before then. I'm 55, and I remember my Brother in law watching an episode with those big headed Aliens & it scared the young me! Anyway, I loved the movie so much, I started watching the episodes! This episode is still one of my favorites and I'd be mad at you if you weren't sooooo damn funny! Again I thank you for the LOLS! KEEP TREKIN'

    • @willmfrank
      @willmfrank 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      A former co-worker had a similar experience with "Firefly." He saw the movie "Serenity" and it instantly became his favorite movie. I asked him if he'd seen the TV show.
      "What TV show?" he asked.
      "Firefly," I answered. "Serenity is kind of a sequel to Firefly."
      The next day I lent him my DVD set. When he returned it, I told him "I know where you can get a re-issue at a ridiculously low price."
      He said it was the best five bucks he had ever spent.

    • @majuuorthrus3340
      @majuuorthrus3340 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Wrath of Khan was my second Star Trek experience. My now-husband wanted to show it to me, and decided to start with Space Seed to set the scene.

  • @Howlrunner82
    @Howlrunner82 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    That cut to Kirk at 02:36 ... priceless

  • @alanbear6505
    @alanbear6505 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Arguably Bashir is an Augment as well. Granted not the same batch but genetically modified to be superior than he otherwise would have been.

  • @georgehermitage4704
    @georgehermitage4704 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    A good review. Quite amusing old bean, Thanks!

  • @wardmicko1251
    @wardmicko1251 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +30

    Although Steve does not openly admire it this time, but one reason the fight is so much fun is the "making it up as they go" aspect to it. "We can't have Kirk drop Kahn with a flying kick, Kahn's supposed to be superhuman!" No problem, we'll have Kirk beat him down with a belaying pin!" "A belaying pin? On a Starship?" "Don't worry about it, we'll have Dick cobble up a high-tech one out of cardboard." And then he did, but Shatner couldn't practice making it look like it had any weight because he'd wind up breaking it. Classic TOS.

    • @BS-vx8dg
      @BS-vx8dg 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      Maybe I'm mixing this up with another fight, but didn't Shatner have a body double for that scene?

    • @wardmicko1251
      @wardmicko1251 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      @BS-vx8dg Probably. I haven't watched it in ages.

    • @philipsalama8083
      @philipsalama8083 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      ​@@BS-vx8dg He definitely does. There's a shot where Kirk jumps over Khan's back and it's clearly not Shatner.

  • @chazblank2717
    @chazblank2717 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    The mass rendering of people unconscious due to gases or lack of oxygen would’ve been a very real concern on a pre-nuclear diesel submarine… it was like being in a garage with the engine running, only you were trapped under water at the same time… and for what it’s worth TOS definitely used submarines as inspiration way more than TNG ever did.

  • @peterjohnson1091
    @peterjohnson1091 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Bearing in mind all the 20th century Earth-style planets that the Enterprise visits McGivers should be very busy.

  • @gilberthamilton9312
    @gilberthamilton9312 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Psych eval : "A worrying tendency to form parasocial attachments with and submit to historical dictators. Probably won't come up."

    • @kevinkeeney9418
      @kevinkeeney9418 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Aka "Horny for Hitler Syndrome".

  • @Numoku
    @Numoku 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    TNG did something silmilar except the three surviving people discovered in stasis were just ordinary people. If I remember correctly, there was a texan, a rich guy, and a woman locating her family.

    • @kerry-j4m
      @kerry-j4m 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      You remember correctly,amigo,Live Long and Prosper

    • @maria263
      @maria263 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      I think that was the one that hinted at the Borg for the first time and had Dukat moonlighting as a Romulan. Good episode

    • @philipsalama8083
      @philipsalama8083 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Fun fact: According to dubiously canon novels, the yuppie stockbroker guy from that episode was one of the main investors in the experiments that created Khan and his followers.

    • @CAP198462
      @CAP198462 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      You’re correct. They were on a satellite sized thing that was going to cross the neutral zone. Which is why the Romulans get involved. I liked the interaction between the rich guy and the Romulan. Picard realises in that moment how similar humanity and Romulans used to be.

    • @kevinkeeney9418
      @kevinkeeney9418 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Old Earth junk finds its way into deep space a lot.

  • @air1fire
    @air1fire 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +18

    There's a bit of a problem with audio starting around 12:00.

    • @enlacostaizquierda
      @enlacostaizquierda 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yeah.. it happens a few times.. like one channel cutting out or something with the balance being off.

    • @ryankirkpatrick959
      @ryankirkpatrick959 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I noticed it at the beginning of a lot of the cuts. Thought my inner ear was off for a bit!

    • @Crlarl
      @Crlarl 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      To me, it sounds like a noise filtering plugin that's going a bit too far.

  • @Cybonator
    @Cybonator 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

    The other Starfleet Historian

  • @wtspman
    @wtspman 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    One of the things that always had me wondering about Kirks first few interactions with Khan was the irony in Khan using the excuse “Pardon me, Captain. I grow fatigued,” anytime Kirk’s questioning got a little too close for comfort. This guy is a genetically-engineered superman. He shouldn’t be worn out by a few hard questions. But Kirk buys it like a credulous fool. He was a lot firmer with Anton Karidian/Kodos earlier in the Conscience of the King.

    • @willmfrank
      @willmfrank 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Yeah, well...Kirk was emotionally invested in the Kurious Kase of Kodos and Karidian in "The Konscience of the King."

    • @rotwang2000
      @rotwang2000 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      "Tell me more about your time mr. Hitler, there are rumors it wasn't a nice time."
      "I can guarantee you captain it was a fantastic period to be alive."
      "You have completely reassured me, you sound like a perfectly nice and rational person, I like you a lot !"

  • @trinastechnobabble
    @trinastechnobabble 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    So wonderful to have you back doing this series. I always look forward to Thursday and your next Retro Review. I hope you had a great holidays. Happy New Year.

  • @mikeyfaux
    @mikeyfaux 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Audio issues aside, this continues the "golden age" that Steve's channel entered ino sometime in the last 12 months or so. The script is tight, and the jokes are funny without undercutting the flow and logic of his critique.

  • @TrumbullComic
    @TrumbullComic 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    For shame, Steve! You called it an "away team" instead of a boarding party at 1:11. I demerit you fifteen quatloos for the TNG-ism in a TOS episode summary! 😉

    • @JeremyPickett
      @JeremyPickett 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      I literally had to put my face in my hands laughing.
      Well, well played my new friend 😂

  • @garysouza95
    @garysouza95 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    Who taught McGyvers? John Freaking Gill?

    • @DonDueed
      @DonDueed 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Hey, at least under Khan, the trains ran on time, amirite?
      (Your comment wins the Trek corner of the internet today.)

  • @deanthemachine8879
    @deanthemachine8879 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Fully waiting for a shitty fan thing where they edit this with deep fakes to have Uhura say “Noonien Singh?! Holy space shit! We worked with your descendant La’an. She had the hots for a version of Kirk here” and then Spock says “oh yeah and I’m crazy strong and can wreck you with a bunch of screaming punches to the face. Sorry. I forgot. Scotty and Kirk being cool with a charismatic genocidal warlord sort of threw me for a bit there.”

  • @AZFlyingCook
    @AZFlyingCook 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    Spock: Why are you praising a dictator? Kirk: At least the trains ran on time.

    • @kevinkeeney9418
      @kevinkeeney9418 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Well, Kirk did study history under John Gill.

  • @SphinxOfBlackQuartz
    @SphinxOfBlackQuartz 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Great examination of a great episode. Thank you!

  • @peterwyetzner5276
    @peterwyetzner5276 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Steve's version of the plot gives a whole other meaning to the phrase "space seed".

  • @CAP198462
    @CAP198462 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Why was the Botany Bay not provided with rich Corinthian leather?

  • @jeffreypage1361
    @jeffreypage1361 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    This episode still gives me chills!
    Montalban's portrayal of a narcissistic psychological abuser made me question the actor's own moral fiber.
    Either he actually is the character that he played, or he is one of the greatest actors of the 20th century!

    • @wpatrickw2012
      @wpatrickw2012 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      I think he was in the latter category. Ricardo Montauban was very underrated.

    • @lauralafauve5520
      @lauralafauve5520 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      It may be he had observed such people.

    • @RobynHoodeofSherwood
      @RobynHoodeofSherwood 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      From everything I've read he was a very nice man.

  • @alfinpogform4774
    @alfinpogform4774 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Lieutenant Marla McGivers, in giving into her lust for the quintessential galactic bad-boy, unwittingly seals her fate for a slow and maddening death by the brain-nibbling pincers of a Ceti Alpha V eel.

  • @SavageGreywolf
    @SavageGreywolf 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    I know 'fill the room with knockout gas' is an easy TV-writer way to button up the conflict without heavy violence, but boy do I know some things about Russian "anti-terror" tactics that I wish I didn't know, that make scenes like this uncomfortable to watch.

  • @rotwang2000
    @rotwang2000 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Space Seed is a really neat story, too bad the characters act like every IQ suddenly dropped below freezing and nobody remembers that there is such a thing as lies, totalitarianism and bad faith.
    "Do you think the A Hitler on our ship is related to the famous 20th century earth politician A Hitler ?"
    "He comes from the same time period, so he might be."
    "Wow, he could teach us so much about the period !"
    Just like an episode of Discovery !

    • @majuuorthrus3340
      @majuuorthrus3340 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I know you're making a joke, but Hitler had a half-brother, Alois Hitler jr, and a half-sister, Angela Raubal (nee Hitler), so it's not implausible that an A Hitler from that time period would be someone other than Adolf. He had a rather strange relationship with most of his family.
      (No living relatives of Adolf Hitler bear his surname.)

  • @randynovick7972
    @randynovick7972 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    It is a great episode and I'm really glad you covered it. As Kirk fight scenes ago, I think I like the arena fight in Gamesters of Triskelion a little more, but it's also more contrived and performative while the one in Space Seed is more, uh, "Roadhouse-like". Different flavors of vanilla, I suppose. Also, the other thing I like about this episode in particular was all the "space yoga". As a kid I thought that I could develop super-strength and hyper-intellectual powers by doing space yoga, but after a few days I didn't notice any changes so I gave up - like for the rest of my life - I've not gone back to yoga since, not counting that physical therapy I did for my back. Anyhow, great rundown. I share a lot of your viewpoints on this one.

  • @TheeOldest
    @TheeOldest 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Love this episode! Excellent commentary thanks!

  • @mrgreatbigmoose
    @mrgreatbigmoose 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I've always thought that Khan wears his glove on a hand that last touched McGivers before she died from a Ceti Eel.

  • @MrJohndoakes
    @MrJohndoakes 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    1:30 If the "Enterprise" is like a modern US Navy ship, the ship's historian would mostly be doing side jobs until she was needed to be a historian. Today you see people like a ship's firefighter doing shipboard jobs like welding or other non-related tasks to the sailor's assigned job.....up until the moment when there is a fire and then they are firefighting.

  • @patrickhaley1312
    @patrickhaley1312 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    That bojack reference ❤

  • @williamg2552
    @williamg2552 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Ricardo Montalban and Madelyn Rhue ALSO appeared TOGETHER in the 1960 BONANZA episode, “DAY OF RECKONING”…some SIX YEARS BEFORE Star Trek first came on the air !!
    PS: They play Husband and Wife (Of course!)

  • @eddstarr2185
    @eddstarr2185 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Hey Steve, since joining the online chat it has occurred to me that 3 themes form some of my favorite TV shows and movies. 1) Nuclear War, 2) Overpopulation, 3) The United Nations as a One World government. For over 60 years I've underestimated the prominence these themes played, especially on Star Trek TOS. The combo of overpopulation and the imagined horror of eugenics experiments underlies so many of my favorite shows from the 20th century. Star Trek is suppose to be about the future, but it drags the fears of the mid-20th century behind it, like the ponderous chain of greed forged by Jacob Marley, from Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol".

  • @LVRugger
    @LVRugger 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I was at a science fiction con in Boston way back when. They had a special showing of Space Seed followed by the new Wrath of Khan. It was amazing.

  • @faltarego
    @faltarego วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Whoa! Mary Tyler Moore Show reference for the win!

  • @xileets
    @xileets 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Scotty: "I gotta admit, I've always had a soft spot for that Luigi Mangioni guy..."
    -_-

  • @andrewness
    @andrewness 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    With our retrospective knowledge of women's hairstyles in the 90s, we should expect Khan to give McGivers a "Rachel" cut. Fortunately for all concerned, that was not yet a thing.

  • @aliceharper707
    @aliceharper707 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    You are so hilarious! I love your reactions to these shows!
    I have a clip from the newspaper in Phoenix when the wrath of Khan first aired and the critic said that Ricardo montalban was hilariously miscast as Khan. LOL. The guy obviously had never watched Star Trek!

    • @kevinkeeney9418
      @kevinkeeney9418 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Probably had only seen him as Mr. Roarke.

  • @anthonybervin3487
    @anthonybervin3487 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    And more of Steve singing...brightest side of the new year so far. Can we put Trump on the Botany Bay back in the 90s? Tan vs Orange= Tan wins.

  • @dianne5086
    @dianne5086 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Speaking of hair, the elaborate big hair do's on most of the women (wigs, surely) were amazing. Just as amazing was no matter what, Spock's hair (Nimoy's real hair) never moved, even during fight scenes.

  • @DerMannDerSeineMutterwar
    @DerMannDerSeineMutterwar 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    1:55 This moment gave me a traumatic flashback. I allways start crying as soon as I hear this song.

  • @gus.smedstad
    @gus.smedstad 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Khan was basically Space Hitler. He's infamous, everyone should have known what he looked like. Imagine picking up a drifting ship from 1945 with a guy sporting a toothbrush mustache and *not* recognizing Hitler.

  • @karenlynch4000
    @karenlynch4000 6 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Hey Steve, Seattle-based 75-year- old Trekkie and general sci-fi-loving grandma here. First, you're brilliant. So, I think it would be worth your time to look at season three of Babylon Five and how the stories relate to today's American politics. Seems like some basic idealogical conflicts may never changel

  • @RM-we7px
    @RM-we7px 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Superior Gene ….ouch.

  • @johnquiett1085
    @johnquiett1085 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Were there audio issues for anyone else? Almost every time Steve cut away to a still from the show it kinda sounded like he was under water for a few words. just wondering if it's my headphones or something.

    • @PixelsAtDawn
      @PixelsAtDawn 21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Not just you John. I think there must have been some issues in the recording or the edit. Not a massive issue but wanted to let you know it wasn't just you!

  • @moosevelt9148
    @moosevelt9148 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    I agree that the ending fight was pretty good, especially when the conflict basically results in attrition when Kirk beats Khan with a PVC pipe prop, lol. I also like how this episode proves its own merits against a similar episode, the ones with the space hippies trying to reach the acid planet, where a charismatic leader tries to take over the ship. That one hits similar beats but not as well.

    • @willmfrank
      @willmfrank 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I can imagine Steve doing a Retro Review of "The Way to Eden" with McCoy shouting to Sevrin "That's not lysergic acid ya dumb fuck, it's SULFURIC!"

    • @TheWanderingFire
      @TheWanderingFire 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      "... space hippies trying to reach an acid planet..." 😂😂😂

  • @euansmith3699
    @euansmith3699 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    I like that the crew appear to have their Courtroom Uniforms hanging up in their closets, just in case this 4 year mission needs some legal decision-making.

  • @yourgodismean4526
    @yourgodismean4526 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    My 2nd fave TOS episode, after City

  • @winstonjwingo
    @winstonjwingo 5 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Yes, i have been waiting for this.

  • @ingok7491
    @ingok7491 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Danke!

  • @SupremeCleave
    @SupremeCleave วันที่ผ่านมา

    I always admired the stunt work in that scene when Khan forces his door open. He knocks that guy ass over tea kettle and it looks great. That whole scene rocks.

  • @rebeccawilson5465
    @rebeccawilson5465 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I always had a crush on Ricardo Montalban his voice was wonderful! 😘🤤

  • @deadponic117
    @deadponic117 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The biggest flaw with wrath of Khan that people who have never seen the original series ask: who is Khan and why does he matter?
    Show them this episode, but wait, you either have to dig out the VCR tape and player (I'm old) or pirate it or find it on a streaming service, and good luck trying to explain who khan is and why he tried to take over the enterprise

  • @steveschmaling8217
    @steveschmaling8217 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Was my favorite episode for a long time until I realized it was mostly because of it's association with Star Trek II. Still one of my favorite ones though

  • @EdiaStanfordBruce
    @EdiaStanfordBruce 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    "City on the Edge of Forever" and "Tomorrow and Tomorrow..." are among my top favorite TOS episodes.