It's disappointing how Dell gave up on Ryzen for business desktops in the Optiplex lineup after the 5055. It would've been nice to have more options, especially considering my organization limits me to quoting only Optiplexes for our staff.
I must admit that I love working on those Optiplex SFF computers. Everything is so easy to access without tools most of the time. The only thing I find a bit annoying is that you have to flex the drive caddy in order to get two drives in it. That scares me a bit every time as I don't want to break it.
Yeah, some of the easiest machines anyone can need to do any work on. Parts received same day, within a couple of hours at times, from Dell and nothing ever took more than an hour to change out. Even on laptops.
All's good until you get a power button failure or some kind of front usb port fails. Never seen these fail on any other computer out there. Can't swap fans out with different models either even if the connectors are the same. Dells are a pleasure to work with as long as they only need an upgrade
Here's the thing... you're not stuck with single slot cards. Also, this isn't a specific issue to the 5055. This has been an issue for the SFF Optiplex systems since the 3020, 7020 and 9020. Not sure why Dell made this stupid decision, but there are options. The x4 slot is open ended and you can totally install a dual slot x16 card. Many people do this, and yes, there's a hit to performance but it's not even close to a big as you might think. You can absolutely install an s2000 in here and be good to go. Another route people like to take is to just replace the power supply with an HD Plex unit, which then gives you the room you need to install a dual slot card in the x16 slot. Lastly, you could always resort to a riser cable.
Another youtuber did tests with the 3020 and found it to be about a 10% decrease in performance, but I might if you can fit a card that's twice as good as say the GT1030 which is otherwise what you're limited to, then it's still worth it.
@@loganparker4184Are you sure it was the 3020? I should have noted that the 3020 does not have the x4 slot, just an x1 slot that you can't install and x16 card in. Anyhow, that sounds about right, and going with the new 3060 6GB or an A2000 over something like the RX 6400 is well worth it, as it will perform better. If you get an XE3, you can even run a 4060. No reason to be running a single slot card in these systems. There's really nothing all that good with a Gen3 slot. Best I could suggest is the WX 4100 or a single slot 3050 or A2000 off the grey market.
@@saddpotatoPerhaps, but they only recently just started doing that. For a while now, the Precision system had the same configuration since the days of the T1700 SFF. It'll be nice for people when those are being dumped on the second hand market by business for sure.
Really enjoyed the video, it would be really nice to get all the cleaning montages stitched together with the chill music, it relaxes me a lot for some reason
Thanks! I should do that! Also, next time instead of a super chat, get yourself a few months of RAID membership, that way you get some perks! I'm very appreciative regardless!
I can confirm, first-gen Ryzen does have freezing problems on Linux due to C-States. I had trouble with both Ubuntu Server and with TrueNAS Scale freezing while idle with a 1700x. Supposedly there are workarounds/fixes, but I needed a better motherboard regardless, so for me the fix was to switch to a Xeon CPU.
I had that problem with my Ryzen 7 1800X and while running Kubuntu 18.04. There is the C6 state that needs to be disabled. I used someone’s script to do that. If I didn’t and I left my PC on all night, by morning, the OS might be frozen. It seem to lockup in 3 to 6 h. I know since the PC shows the time. If you reboot, you have to run the script again. Another solution would be to recompile the kernel with some changes. I have a Ryzen 5 3600 now and this problem is not present.
I think Dell put the PCIe x16 slot on the bottom on purpose for these business class SFF systems, so if you want to use a dual slot GPU you have step up to their professional/workstation class systems, like the Precision 3460
I don't think it was done for upsell reasons. I find that most SFF systems aren't good candidates for running better-performing graphics cards. The PSUs for these computers are only rated at 240W. A real gaming graphics card draws more than that, assuming you can even find one that fits in the case, and there's no upgrade for the PSU unless you're keen to design it yourself. The graphics card in the OptiPlex 5055 is really nothing more than a substitute for integrated graphics, since that Ryzen CPU doesn't support integrated graphics. About 10 years ago, I worked part-time for a school with a computer lab that was outfitted with Lenovo ThinkCentre M71 series slim towers. The students were more than a bit rough on them, and I had to keep the lab running on a budget, so when I encountered a system unit with its VGA port partially torn out, I needed to shop for a compatible graphics card to try to bypass it. Looking back on that plan with what I know now, I'm not sure this would have worked in the first place, because I've encountered a lot of motherboards won't POST if there's anything wrong with the integrated GPU, even if a graphics card is present. But it didn't matter, because at that time, I couldn't find any graphics cards with specs that called for a PSU smaller than 300W, and these ThinkCentre M71s had 280W PSUs. Officially, there was a 320W PSU available for those slim towers, but I couldn't get one for some reason. I ended up retiring that computer. I know that graphics cards aren't power-hungry all the time, but I've also learned, the hard way, that short-changing them is a bad idea. In 2017, I bought a couple of Dell XPS 8920 towers, which came from Dell with NVidia GTX 1080 graphics cards installed, for an architect. But I found out after the fact that Dell shipped those towers with the exact same 460W PSU that they used in the XPS 8920 with only integrated graphics. They weren't enough, and whenever the architect's CAD software started using those graphics cards, the computer would freeze, blue-screen or just shut off. I contacted Dell support, but their position was that as long as the computer booted and ran without an error, there was nothing wrong with it; they had never made a claim that it was suitable to any particular task. I ended up replacing the stock power supplies with 850W ones. (850W was probably overkill, but they were only a few dollars more than 750W ones at the time, I figured better safe than sorry.) Problem solved.
I run a home TrueNAS SCALE box with a Ryzen 5 1500 and A320 motherboard in and did indeed have issues with it crashing every 2-3 days in TrueNAS Core and TrueNAS SCALE. The issue is the hardware uses some advanced C-states for power management that aren't properly supported by some OSs, so when it is sitting at idle a long time it tries to use one of these C-states to step-down the power draw and promptly crashes the kernel. Turning these off in the BIOS makes it draw a bit more power but totally negates the crashing. You may have dodged that bullet when you installed sysfs-utils and manually set the CPU governors. I don't really know enough about that tool or the relative governor settings vs C-states to know for sure.
Just because the x16 slot is actually full x16 doesn't necessarily mean it will support a full 75w from the slot in these OEM machines. I would check documentation to try and see what wattage is supported on that full slot before putting another gpu in. An i5 6500 system i worked on in the past only supported 45w from the slot if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm running r7 1700 in my server. It still has issues, even with the latest kernel (proxmox 8), but they happen not too often. When my server had even a slightest load, it worked fine. However, last year I added a second server to my homelab and moved all of my VMs onto it, and then I started having issues. Every 2 or 3 weeks server stopped responding. I fixed it by manually disabling C6 state and it ran fine ever since.
Picked up the 5050. I5 6600. Integrated graphics. Add 8gb ddr4 for a total of 16. Intel enterprise SSD 480 gb. Bluetooth and wifi dongle. 70 bucks total. use as Nvidia shield replacement
honestly it would be so cool to see a video of just upgrading this thing to the absolute max. a recommendation for a GPU you could possibly use is a AMD Radeon RX 6400 which has a handful of low-profile variants!
@@HardwareHaven You could theoretically get a PCIe 3.0 riser cable and install (aka throw it in the case) another GPU but both internal space/mounting and power draw can get in the way
It looks like a 2-slot LP card could fit if you only need those first 4 (8?) lanes. IIRC there are some 6500XTs in that form factor, but also a 4060 that may be too long.
Excellent video! Interesting to hear a bit of history concerning the Ryzen CPUs - I have them in all my systems except for my 3 node proxmox cluster and it's backup machine. Until fairly recently, I ran my personal workstation with a Ryzen 1700x and a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti - but I finally upgraded to a Ryzen 7 5700G, and it's a noticeable difference (even though I'm not taking advantage of the built in video). Keep up the good work - and thanks for the early content for your supporters!
The ryzen 1000 series was game changing they had options for anyone and cheap too which then intel actually started innovating after selling identical parts for almost a decade with just higher clocks. Finally competition came back
I noticed how on steam, people were buying Intel CPUs more and AMD was going down and then the Ryzen came out, some started to switch to AMD again. If you wanted more cores, the clear choice was Ryzen.
Happy you mention first gen ryzen crashing at idle, I've actually been having that issue with my ryzen 1200 and couldn't figure out why it kept turning off.
I had that problem with my Ryzen 7 1800X and while running Kubuntu 18.04. There is the C6 state that needs to be disabled. I used someone’s script to do that. If I didn’t and I left my PC on all night, by morning, the OS might be frozen. It seem to lockup in 3 to 6 h. I know since the PC shows the time. If you reboot, you have to run the script again. Another solution would be to recompile the kernel with some changes. I have a Ryzen 5 3600 now and this problem is not present.
I've seen one or two of those AMD Dell systems for sale on occasion. I've wondered how they compare to their Intel counterparts. Thanks for this look at them!
11:00 can you undervolt with Throttlestop? On Skylake thru Coffeelake Optiplexes, with an early BIOS pre-PlunderVolt, Throttlestop works. I can undervolt by 140mV stable on most chips. Possible on Ryzen SFFs?
just ran across ur videos a couple months ago, inspired me to get some old tech running, found a cheap 40 dollar optiplex 5050 , and made it into an hackantosh, thank you for your videos and the fun ideas.
Wasn't the idle crashing thing was something that was worked around for a while in Linux? I seem to remember that it was an issue when entering higher C-states, so the workaround was that Zen1/Zen2 wasn't allowed to enter higher C-states. I think this is actually fixed in current Linux kernels rather than just a workaround, but I can't remember for sure.
Still happens to me on my 3700X and on the latest arch kernels. Could be a different CPU fault or a motherboard problem since it didn't happen on my 3600
I guess it is because of state C6. I used someone's script to turn it off. I had a Ryzen 7 1800X a while ago. The problem is not present with the 3600, which is what I have now (same motherboard).
used to work for a refurbisher and was well acquainted with those dell SFF, that proprietary sata was pretty fragile and often broke just trying to push it back in and we had a box of replacements just for that. also had my hands pinched way too many times by those drive caddys. never saw that ryzen version, seems very neat!
Yeah, working on computers is my happy place; used to do it every day until the place I was volunteering at shut down, now it's something I do when I get a hardware upgrade which is pretty infrequent.
Boxes like this would be EXCELLENT for single disk giganto storage, container services and remote render jobs. Doesn't need to be headless but it would help. Maybe a g2x8 storage or SFP card in the x4 slot and a Tesla in the g2x16 for performance. Very cool.
Dell started doing the x16 slot on the bottom on their SFF systems, I'm assuming to make them harder to flip in the future. With that being said, the older SFF boards had holes that lined up with an mATX or ATX case, so a case swap would solve that problem.
I actually really like these modern Optiplex systems. I've bought a few ex-lease machines over the years and they've been very reliable and robust. I've got my partner running a Optiplex 7060 SFF with an i7-8500. It's not a gaming rig, but it does allow them to do some photoshop and premier work with minimal fuss.
You got my hopes up for something really unusual, like maybe an ARM chip, and here it's just an OEM Ryzen CPU.
11 หลายเดือนก่อน
If i can remember correctly my r7 1700 had issues compiling kernel soon after I bought it, contacted amd and they just told me to downclock ram and bump cpu voltage a bit. That made it better but agesa update fixed it at the end. That computer still runs after 8 years later and will receive r7 5700x3d for needed boost in performance.
pro cpus are really interesting, i have a 3900 pro, the thing with these is that since oems want tiny PSUs AMD binns the PRO chips to get ones that are super efficient, when one puts it in an of the self mobo with solid vrms and a big psu you can overclock the shit out of them, i got mine running at 4.3ghz and drawing over 170watts from the standard 65w, this also allows for running in 65w and undervolting in supeer small builds. (i still run mine overclocked in an A4H2O)
The low-profile single slot A310 Eco announced by SPARKLE would looks like it would fit perfectly. I know the card is not out yet but where else is hardware supported AV1 encode and decode going to come from.
I had an i5 6th genversion of these overheat. Linux falsely thinks it's a laptop and controls a not connected fan pwm. I made a service for changing the fan between low mid or high based on cpu temp and it was solid. Fan control is locked down so you can't use the pwm directly
If you're in the market if an OEM business PC like this, my advice is double check the BIOS support, I've learned this for experience, and seems to be common with Dell where they will not release future BIOS updates to support later microcode to unlock the motherboard to support later CPUs. For example, I bought a Dell Optiplex 3060, the mini form factor, that came with an Intel 8100T for £50, I had no intention of upgrading the CPU at the time, but I did discover the motherboard will take a 9th Gen CPU, and I'd think about sticking in a 9500T for a little more CPU horsepower, however Dell do not release the microcode to allow that (probably to force businesses to buy new units, not so good for keeping them out of landfill when the public get their hands on them). However Lenovo's equivalent the M720Q does have the microcode support for 9th Gen Intel; I guess that's exactly why the Lenovo units can sell for twice the value, I don't know about HP as when I was buying HP units seemed to be less available. If you are thinking, or might consider in the future, to upgrade these second hand PCs down the line, just check out the Dell, Lenovo etc forums to see if BIOS updates did allow an upgrade path, just imagine if a 3rd gen Ryzen APU could have been installed, it wouldn't have been bad at all.
I think machines like this is a great deal for homelab users, since many of them offers some enterprise features I can actually tack advantage of. I am using an i7-10700 and HP Z2 G5 Tower with Intel AMT enabled. With a Raspberry Pi 4B as my jump server, I can remote manage my home server even when the main OS failed to boot.
It's probably possible to mod the BIOS to support newer CPUs (depending on what chipset they used). I've done something similar before, might be able to help.
Had R7 1700 as home server under TrueNAS - it would hang up after few days (almost always 4-5 days). Had to disable power saving features in UEFI to make it stable 24/7.
Dear @YT algorithm, no thank you. @Hardware Haven, the quality of your video cinematic is good, you speak clear, and well, and do your research. much appreciated. the consumer hardware paradigm reminds me of work. weird hardware from the dawn of would be more interesting, maybe.
There are SFF PSU that can replace the Dell unit. Cosair and Apevia make them...like the Apevia ITX-PFC400W Mini ITX/Flex or Apevia 500w SFX power..They also open up the space needed to use the X16 slot so a 2 slot powered GPU can be used...Ok power draw will increased of course..but make for a decent basic gamer/emulator if nothing else.
Managing a remote linux virtualization host is no problem at all, just run virt-manager on whatever PC or laptop you're usually on and just add the remote host as a connection in virt-manager
❤ The sound design of every second of your videos is insanely good and laudably addictive. Thank you. Great video 👍 Kindest regards, friends and neighbours, and happy weekend.
part of the stutter is the ram speed and the amount of ram. windows is ram heavy that even when running windows server test VMs i'd have to set them to at minimum 8GB just to install and test 1 application.
The AMD Radeon RX6400 would like a word with you :) It has low-profile single-slot options available for it. You also won't lose too much performance going from the cards PCIe 4.0 x4 to PCIe 3.0 x8, few FPS here and there.
These were even kept off from the official website, and could only be booked from the sales app :-) I always attended customers these existed. There were also some hidden latitude with the amd option
I'd be excited to see a am5 optiplex, or lenovo/hp business box like this. They have integrated iGPU on the CPU so it would work much better I think. I've encountered lenovo business boxes of this form factor with 2400G in them, pretty nice.
i had the step up (ryzen 5 pro 1500) as my first desktop processor, only got it because it was a bit unusual, there is no r5 1500 only a 1500x, but the pro version made the 1500 exist :)
What you wanna get is a Refurb Dell Precission 3640, they come with w1290P Xeons, 10 core 20 threads base frequency 3.7ghz, 1 core max 5.3ghx, all core 4.7ghz. The system I got for my bro ran 5.8ghz out of the box. Blazing fast system. Holds full height 12" video card, comes with 460-1000w pso, but takes a standard PSU 24 pin and 8 pin mobo. I got mine from Delta Server store with 32gb ram and 1tb nvme m.2 ssd, new and it has 2x m.2 slots.
I would be very interested if you tried to put the MOBO into a regular case....how is it with front IO, new PSU and stuff, since this could be a pretty good budget computer if the recasing works
i remember the optiplex and hp pavillon being hidden gamer pc's. my first pc was a pavillon 750 155nz which had a 6700 and a 4gb gtx 960 which was totally usable and dare i say even mid end then.
If you can edit the bios manually, you may be able to add support for newer CPUs. Unless dell locked the ability to write to the bios chip. Then putting a 5600G or 5700G would possibly be the best bet without a dedicated GPU, considering how powerful those integrated graphics are. If not, then RX 6400 or any similar half-height single-slot GPU that fits in addition to whatever is the best CPU you can put in there without stressing the motherboard's power delivery.
@@HardwareHaven it's actually pretty easy as long as you have the right kind of software. If it is right, then you will have everything laid out in front of you, including various sections of the BIOS, including one called "CPU microcodes" or something along those lines. Inside that section, you can add or remove whatever microcode for a CPU that you want, and it should just work. Whether it does, well, not for me to say, but plenty of people did that back in late 2010s to install various mutant CPUs or engineering samples for LGA 1151 and LGA 1151v2.
I just bought one of these and mine comes with 2400G and onboard graphics ! I'mma trying buying a tesla p4 for encoding and passthrough and a ryzen 1700 pro ! can you test in the next video if a normal 1700 or a pro version will work in it if you have the cpu on hand ? i cant effort to test that
At work we are almost 100% Dell Optiplex except few NUCs and my Ryzen 5700G. And yes, I don't see it downclock ever. It is a monster CPU for my IT job, but I'm afraid it uses more power than needed. Oh, but our Dell Epyc servers rock!
The best AMD cpus for low power home servers atm would be the 4700GE and the 5700GE, which are OEM only. They do have integrated graphics, 8 cores/16 threads and a 35W TDP.
ooh...they have 1/2 height 4x NVME cards! Power draw isn't always the killer...a high speed NAS would be sweet, especially since NVME's are getting much cheaper (and larger storage capacity) Pretty cool!!! Definitely run circles around SBC's for sure! Keep em coming!!!!
![This Custom MicroServer is NUTS [HP Overhaul Pt.2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eAbyIfv7bEU/mqdefault.jpg)
![This Custom MicroServer is NUTS [HP Overhaul Pt.2]](/img/tr.png)
I wouldn't trust anyone who skipped the cleaning montage.....
Hahahaha
True
i 2x it
It is a crime on its own accord
The dust made me sneeze, though
It's disappointing how Dell gave up on Ryzen for business desktops in the Optiplex lineup after the 5055. It would've been nice to have more options, especially considering my organization limits me to quoting only Optiplexes for our staff.
Intel monopoly is still too strong
Intel probably sent them a little note about continuing to do that,
Intel paid them to stop doing business with amd and the fact people are so familiar with intel they dont trust amd
@@knerduno5942 As somebody at Intel would say: "Dell is the best friend money can buy"
@@JoseLgamer05 I am sure Microsoft said the same thing once they stopped selling those Linux based Machines many years ago.
I must admit that I love working on those Optiplex SFF computers. Everything is so easy to access without tools most of the time. The only thing I find a bit annoying is that you have to flex the drive caddy in order to get two drives in it. That scares me a bit every time as I don't want to break it.
Yeah, some of the easiest machines anyone can need to do any work on. Parts received same day, within a couple of hours at times, from Dell and nothing ever took more than an hour to change out. Even on laptops.
All's good until you get a power button failure or some kind of front usb port fails. Never seen these fail on any other computer out there. Can't swap fans out with different models either even if the connectors are the same. Dells are a pleasure to work with as long as they only need an upgrade
SAND IT
agreed@@Mirra2003-f9s
Here's the thing... you're not stuck with single slot cards. Also, this isn't a specific issue to the 5055. This has been an issue for the SFF Optiplex systems since the 3020, 7020 and 9020. Not sure why Dell made this stupid decision, but there are options. The x4 slot is open ended and you can totally install a dual slot x16 card. Many people do this, and yes, there's a hit to performance but it's not even close to a big as you might think. You can absolutely install an s2000 in here and be good to go. Another route people like to take is to just replace the power supply with an HD Plex unit, which then gives you the room you need to install a dual slot card in the x16 slot. Lastly, you could always resort to a riser cable.
Another youtuber did tests with the 3020 and found it to be about a 10% decrease in performance, but I might if you can fit a card that's twice as good as say the GT1030 which is otherwise what you're limited to, then it's still worth it.
@@loganparker4184Are you sure it was the 3020? I should have noted that the 3020 does not have the x4 slot, just an x1 slot that you can't install and x16 card in. Anyhow, that sounds about right, and going with the new 3060 6GB or an A2000 over something like the RX 6400 is well worth it, as it will perform better. If you get an XE3, you can even run a 4060. No reason to be running a single slot card in these systems. There's really nothing all that good with a Gen3 slot. Best I could suggest is the WX 4100 or a single slot 3050 or A2000 off the grey market.
Pretty sure they did it as a way to push customers towards the precision SFF for anything involving GPU horsepower. Dual slot cards fit fine in those.
@@saddpotatoPerhaps, but they only recently just started doing that. For a while now, the Precision system had the same configuration since the days of the T1700 SFF. It'll be nice for people when those are being dumped on the second hand market by business for sure.
Really enjoyed the video, it would be really nice to get all the cleaning montages stitched together with the chill music, it relaxes me a lot for some reason
Thanks! I should do that!
Also, next time instead of a super chat, get yourself a few months of RAID membership, that way you get some perks! I'm very appreciative regardless!
I can confirm, first-gen Ryzen does have freezing problems on Linux due to C-States. I had trouble with both Ubuntu Server and with TrueNAS Scale freezing while idle with a 1700x. Supposedly there are workarounds/fixes, but I needed a better motherboard regardless, so for me the fix was to switch to a Xeon CPU.
Feel that, my 2920x has the same issue in TrueNAS core. Disabling all c states helped me there
I had that problem with my Ryzen 7 1800X and while running Kubuntu 18.04.
There is the C6 state that needs to be disabled. I used someone’s script to do that.
If I didn’t and I left my PC on all night, by morning, the OS might be frozen. It seem to lockup in 3 to 6 h. I know since the PC shows the time.
If you reboot, you have to run the script again.
Another solution would be to recompile the kernel with some changes.
I have a Ryzen 5 3600 now and this problem is not present.
I think Dell put the PCIe x16 slot on the bottom on purpose for these business class SFF systems, so if you want to use a dual slot GPU you have step up to their professional/workstation class systems, like the Precision 3460
I don't think it was done for upsell reasons. I find that most SFF systems aren't good candidates for running better-performing graphics cards. The PSUs for these computers are only rated at 240W. A real gaming graphics card draws more than that, assuming you can even find one that fits in the case, and there's no upgrade for the PSU unless you're keen to design it yourself. The graphics card in the OptiPlex 5055 is really nothing more than a substitute for integrated graphics, since that Ryzen CPU doesn't support integrated graphics.
About 10 years ago, I worked part-time for a school with a computer lab that was outfitted with Lenovo ThinkCentre M71 series slim towers. The students were more than a bit rough on them, and I had to keep the lab running on a budget, so when I encountered a system unit with its VGA port partially torn out, I needed to shop for a compatible graphics card to try to bypass it. Looking back on that plan with what I know now, I'm not sure this would have worked in the first place, because I've encountered a lot of motherboards won't POST if there's anything wrong with the integrated GPU, even if a graphics card is present. But it didn't matter, because at that time, I couldn't find any graphics cards with specs that called for a PSU smaller than 300W, and these ThinkCentre M71s had 280W PSUs. Officially, there was a 320W PSU available for those slim towers, but I couldn't get one for some reason. I ended up retiring that computer.
I know that graphics cards aren't power-hungry all the time, but I've also learned, the hard way, that short-changing them is a bad idea. In 2017, I bought a couple of Dell XPS 8920 towers, which came from Dell with NVidia GTX 1080 graphics cards installed, for an architect. But I found out after the fact that Dell shipped those towers with the exact same 460W PSU that they used in the XPS 8920 with only integrated graphics. They weren't enough, and whenever the architect's CAD software started using those graphics cards, the computer would freeze, blue-screen or just shut off. I contacted Dell support, but their position was that as long as the computer booted and ran without an error, there was nothing wrong with it; they had never made a claim that it was suitable to any particular task. I ended up replacing the stock power supplies with 850W ones. (850W was probably overkill, but they were only a few dollars more than 750W ones at the time, I figured better safe than sorry.) Problem solved.
@mar4kl my optiplex 790 has a GTX 1650
I think it is more to reduce the resale value on them. Dell doesn't make money when you use older PCs...
I run a home TrueNAS SCALE box with a Ryzen 5 1500 and A320 motherboard in and did indeed have issues with it crashing every 2-3 days in TrueNAS Core and TrueNAS SCALE. The issue is the hardware uses some advanced C-states for power management that aren't properly supported by some OSs, so when it is sitting at idle a long time it tries to use one of these C-states to step-down the power draw and promptly crashes the kernel. Turning these off in the BIOS makes it draw a bit more power but totally negates the crashing.
You may have dodged that bullet when you installed sysfs-utils and manually set the CPU governors. I don't really know enough about that tool or the relative governor settings vs C-states to know for sure.
Just because the x16 slot is actually full x16 doesn't necessarily mean it will support a full 75w from the slot in these OEM machines. I would check documentation to try and see what wattage is supported on that full slot before putting another gpu in. An i5 6500 system i worked on in the past only supported 45w from the slot if I'm remembering correctly.
True! Good point
I've used GTX 1650s with no plugins for pcie power just fine in similar systems, I think it supports it.
I'm running r7 1700 in my server. It still has issues, even with the latest kernel (proxmox 8), but they happen not too often.
When my server had even a slightest load, it worked fine. However, last year I added a second server to my homelab and moved all of my VMs onto it, and then I started having issues.
Every 2 or 3 weeks server stopped responding.
I fixed it by manually disabling C6 state and it ran fine ever since.
Picked up the 5050. I5 6600. Integrated graphics. Add 8gb ddr4 for a total of 16. Intel enterprise SSD 480 gb. Bluetooth and wifi dongle. 70 bucks total. use as Nvidia shield replacement
That cleaning, and reassembling montage was surprising relaxing!!!!
NICE. Hope you're doing well man!
honestly it would be so cool to see a video of just upgrading this thing to the absolute max. a recommendation for a GPU you could possibly use is a AMD Radeon RX 6400 which has a handful of low-profile variants!
I just might... I had no idea there were single slot rx6400s. I think not having PCIe gen 4 would hurth though...
@@HardwareHavenmay not be as powerful but it would still be decently powerful either way
Just realized I am on the wrong account, still JustinSUF here but a different account lmaoo
@@HardwareHaven You could theoretically get a PCIe 3.0 riser cable and install (aka throw it in the case) another GPU but both internal space/mounting and power draw can get in the way
It looks like a 2-slot LP card could fit if you only need those first 4 (8?) lanes. IIRC there are some 6500XTs in that form factor, but also a 4060 that may be too long.
the bios can be unlocked as well and you can inject the microcode updates to allow for ryzen 3 series . ryzen 5th gen isa bit odd atm . :)
你能想出一个教程吗？我想试一试，谢谢
Excellent video! Interesting to hear a bit of history concerning the Ryzen CPUs - I have them in all my systems except for my 3 node proxmox cluster and it's backup machine. Until fairly recently, I ran my personal workstation with a Ryzen 1700x and a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti - but I finally upgraded to a Ryzen 7 5700G, and it's a noticeable difference (even though I'm not taking advantage of the built in video).
Keep up the good work - and thanks for the early content for your supporters!
The ryzen 1000 series was game changing they had options for anyone and cheap too which then intel actually started innovating after selling identical parts for almost a decade with just higher clocks. Finally competition came back
Exactamente así fue.
That's exactly how it was.
I noticed how on steam, people were buying Intel CPUs more and AMD was going down and then the Ryzen came out, some started to switch to AMD again.
If you wanted more cores, the clear choice was Ryzen.
Happy you mention first gen ryzen crashing at idle, I've actually been having that issue with my ryzen 1200 and couldn't figure out why it kept turning off.
I had that problem with my Ryzen 7 1800X and while running Kubuntu 18.04.
There is the C6 state that needs to be disabled. I used someone’s script to do that.
If I didn’t and I left my PC on all night, by morning, the OS might be frozen. It seem to lockup in 3 to 6 h. I know since the PC shows the time.
If you reboot, you have to run the script again.
Another solution would be to recompile the kernel with some changes.
I have a Ryzen 5 3600 now and this problem is not present.
for some reason I find watching him clean computers absurdly relaxing
I believe the older desktop are annoyed by people trying to operate on them, hence such violent measures
Special move, upu cutter
I've seen one or two of those AMD Dell systems for sale on occasion. I've wondered how they compare to their Intel counterparts. Thanks for this look at them!
11:00 can you undervolt with Throttlestop? On Skylake thru Coffeelake Optiplexes, with an early BIOS pre-PlunderVolt, Throttlestop works. I can undervolt by 140mV stable on most chips.
Possible on Ryzen SFFs?
6:50 wow the BIOS looks way different than the Intel Skylake Optiplexes!
just ran across ur videos a couple months ago, inspired me to get some old tech running, found a cheap 40 dollar optiplex 5050 , and made it into an hackantosh, thank you for your videos and the fun ideas.
Wasn't the idle crashing thing was something that was worked around for a while in Linux? I seem to remember that it was an issue when entering higher C-states, so the workaround was that Zen1/Zen2 wasn't allowed to enter higher C-states. I think this is actually fixed in current Linux kernels rather than just a workaround, but I can't remember for sure.
Still happens to me on my 3700X and on the latest arch kernels. Could be a different CPU fault or a motherboard problem since it didn't happen on my 3600
I guess it is because of state C6. I used someone's script to turn it off. I had a Ryzen 7 1800X a while ago.
The problem is not present with the 3600, which is what I have now (same motherboard).
I don't know if it's your mic or what but your voice is so soothing I almost don't care what the video is about.
Lol, I'm glad
used to work for a refurbisher and was well acquainted with those dell SFF, that proprietary sata was pretty fragile and often broke just trying to push it back in and we had a box of replacements just for that.
also had my hands pinched way too many times by those drive caddys.
never saw that ryzen version, seems very neat!
Yeah, working on computers is my happy place; used to do it every day until the place I was volunteering at shut down, now it's something I do when I get a hardware upgrade which is pretty infrequent.
Love your videos man, keep going. Always happy when you upload
Boxes like this would be EXCELLENT for single disk giganto storage, container services and remote render jobs. Doesn't need to be headless but it would help. Maybe a g2x8 storage or SFP card in the x4 slot and a Tesla in the g2x16 for performance. Very cool.
Dell started doing the x16 slot on the bottom on their SFF systems, I'm assuming to make them harder to flip in the future. With that being said, the older SFF boards had holes that lined up with an mATX or ATX case, so a case swap would solve that problem.
I actually really like these modern Optiplex systems. I've bought a few ex-lease machines over the years and they've been very reliable and robust. I've got my partner running a Optiplex 7060 SFF with an i7-8500. It's not a gaming rig, but it does allow them to do some photoshop and premier work with minimal fuss.
Could you please tell me which fan are you using for the front of the case? What is the size? How to power the fan?
You got my hopes up for something really unusual, like maybe an ARM chip, and here it's just an OEM Ryzen CPU.
If i can remember correctly my r7 1700 had issues compiling kernel soon after I bought it, contacted amd and they just told me to downclock ram and bump cpu voltage a bit. That made it better but agesa update fixed it at the end. That computer still runs after 8 years later and will receive r7 5700x3d for needed boost in performance.
pro cpus are really interesting, i have a 3900 pro, the thing with these is that since oems want tiny PSUs AMD binns the PRO chips to get ones that are super efficient, when one puts it in an of the self mobo with solid vrms and a big psu you can overclock the shit out of them, i got mine running at 4.3ghz and drawing over 170watts from the standard 65w, this also allows for running in 65w and undervolting in supeer small builds. (i still run mine overclocked in an A4H2O)
The low-profile single slot A310 Eco announced by SPARKLE would looks like it would fit perfectly. I know the card is not out yet but where else is hardware supported AV1 encode and decode going to come from.
You should try putting a 2 slot GPU in there anyways, the top X4 slot has the end cut out to fit an X16 card. It’ll just run with less lanes
could something like this run a 3500? have an old one lying around after upgrading and a small media PC for
Is the processor in this vendor locked, like what Lenovo do?
How much of the increased wattage use is from the video card? (also i think sometimes those "micro" form factors limit cpu wattage )
Why didn't you replace the thermal paste on the gpu?
I had an i5 6th genversion of these overheat. Linux falsely thinks it's a laptop and controls a not connected fan pwm. I made a service for changing the fan between low mid or high based on cpu temp and it was solid. Fan control is locked down so you can't use the pwm directly
If you're in the market if an OEM business PC like this, my advice is double check the BIOS support, I've learned this for experience, and seems to be common with Dell where they will not release future BIOS updates to support later microcode to unlock the motherboard to support later CPUs. For example, I bought a Dell Optiplex 3060, the mini form factor, that came with an Intel 8100T for £50, I had no intention of upgrading the CPU at the time, but I did discover the motherboard will take a 9th Gen CPU, and I'd think about sticking in a 9500T for a little more CPU horsepower, however Dell do not release the microcode to allow that (probably to force businesses to buy new units, not so good for keeping them out of landfill when the public get their hands on them). However Lenovo's equivalent the M720Q does have the microcode support for 9th Gen Intel; I guess that's exactly why the Lenovo units can sell for twice the value, I don't know about HP as when I was buying HP units seemed to be less available.
If you are thinking, or might consider in the future, to upgrade these second hand PCs down the line, just check out the Dell, Lenovo etc forums to see if BIOS updates did allow an upgrade path, just imagine if a 3rd gen Ryzen APU could have been installed, it wouldn't have been bad at all.
That cleaning montage was pure asmr
I think machines like this is a great deal for homelab users, since many of them offers some enterprise features I can actually tack advantage of.
I am using an i7-10700 and HP Z2 G5 Tower with Intel AMT enabled. With a Raspberry Pi 4B as my jump server, I can remote manage my home server even when the main OS failed to boot.
in my country, there are some pro ryzen cpus are being sold in normal shops and now i wonder how they got there
It's probably possible to mod the BIOS to support newer CPUs (depending on what chipset they used). I've done something similar before, might be able to help.
Yeah...I always find the latest revision of the BIOS on any of these older machines...usually if they have quite a few nice tweaks
Had R7 1700 as home server under TrueNAS - it would hang up after few days (almost always 4-5 days). Had to disable power saving features in UEFI to make it stable 24/7.
Dear @YT algorithm, no thank you.
@Hardware Haven, the quality of your video cinematic is good, you speak clear, and well, and do your research. much appreciated. the consumer hardware paradigm reminds me of work. weird hardware from the dawn of would be more interesting, maybe.
that 4x slot looks like it is open ended and could handle a Asroc low profile dual slot Intel A380 for the LOL's
There are SFF PSU that can replace the Dell unit. Cosair and Apevia make them...like the Apevia ITX-PFC400W Mini ITX/Flex or Apevia 500w SFX power..They also open up the space needed to use the X16 slot so a 2 slot powered GPU can be used...Ok power draw will increased of course..but make for a decent basic gamer/emulator if nothing else.
Managing a remote linux virtualization host is no problem at all, just run virt-manager on whatever PC or laptop you're usually on and just add the remote host as a connection in virt-manager
Dayam 🙆🏾♂️🙆🏾♂️🙆🏾♂️🙆🏾♂️
You sitting on the desk is a great ad.
❤ The sound design of every second of your videos is insanely good and laudably addictive. Thank you.
Great video 👍
Kindest regards, friends and neighbours, and happy weekend.
I like the Dell OptiPlex PCs. I've got the 7010 SFF and was able to create a modest gaming system with it.
part of the stutter is the ram speed and the amount of ram. windows is ram heavy that even when running windows server test VMs i'd have to set them to at minimum 8GB just to install and test 1 application.
Internet cafe here on PH has many units of DELL CPU packed with either I3 or I5
The 6 core version can be picked up pretty cheap online
That ryzen is the amd version of the i3 8100?
The AMD Radeon RX6400 would like a word with you :)
It has low-profile single-slot options available for it.
You also won't lose too much performance going from the cards PCIe 4.0 x4 to PCIe 3.0 x8, few FPS here and there.
did any oem release bios updates for 5000 series??
I picked up a HP 705 G3 Ryzen 1500 Pro system a few years back off ebay. Don't think the seller realised what it was and so it was dirt cheap.
These were even kept off from the official website, and could only be booked from the sales app :-) I always attended customers these existed. There were also some hidden latitude with the amd option
you missed that the 4x slot has the little cut in the back making it to where you can install 16X cards
it's not necessary to remove the mainboard from the case, there is no really dust below it.
i would love to see you upgrade this pc as far as you can, rx 6400 with ryzen 7 or ryzen 5 and as much ram as possible?
Ryzen 1700 and a t1000 are on the way
What you use to clean ?
Usually the schedutil governor is the one you want to use
I'd be excited to see a am5 optiplex, or lenovo/hp business box like this. They have integrated iGPU on the CPU so it would work much better I think. I've encountered lenovo business boxes of this form factor with 2400G in them, pretty nice.
i had the step up (ryzen 5 pro 1500) as my first desktop processor, only got it because it was a bit unusual, there is no r5 1500 only a 1500x, but the pro version made the 1500 exist :)
Can someone tell me how good is that Ryzen 3 for a small Minecraft server? 2 - 4 players and some small mods/plugins.
What you wanna get is a Refurb Dell Precission 3640, they come with w1290P Xeons, 10 core 20 threads base frequency 3.7ghz, 1 core max 5.3ghx, all core 4.7ghz. The system I got for my bro ran 5.8ghz out of the box. Blazing fast system. Holds full height 12" video card, comes with 460-1000w pso, but takes a standard PSU 24 pin and 8 pin mobo. I got mine from Delta Server store with 32gb ram and 1tb nvme m.2 ssd, new and it has 2x m.2 slots.
I would be very interested if you tried to put the MOBO into a regular case....how is it with front IO, new PSU and stuff, since this could be a pretty good budget computer if the recasing works
It’s not an ATX mobo. It’s Dell proprietary.
@@thespencerowen yes and even dell/lenovo/acer/hp proprietary boards can be recased in some cases. that is why I was asking
I just have a feeling that OEMs have LOT of Intel-style coolers, that's why so many AM4 prebuilts have an Intel-styled mounting.
i remember the optiplex and hp pavillon being hidden gamer pc's. my first pc was a pavillon 750 155nz which had a 6700 and a 4gb gtx 960 which was totally usable and dare i say even mid end then.
Wish the pci-e slots were switched around for more room for the GPU.
If you can edit the bios manually, you may be able to add support for newer CPUs. Unless dell locked the ability to write to the bios chip. Then putting a 5600G or 5700G would possibly be the best bet without a dedicated GPU, considering how powerful those integrated graphics are. If not, then RX 6400 or any similar half-height single-slot GPU that fits in addition to whatever is the best CPU you can put in there without stressing the motherboard's power delivery.
A much as I want to get to the point where I understand BIOS modifications, I think that's a bit beyonf my capabilities at the moment haha
@@HardwareHaven it's actually pretty easy as long as you have the right kind of software. If it is right, then you will have everything laid out in front of you, including various sections of the BIOS, including one called "CPU microcodes" or something along those lines. Inside that section, you can add or remove whatever microcode for a CPU that you want, and it should just work. Whether it does, well, not for me to say, but plenty of people did that back in late 2010s to install various mutant CPUs or engineering samples for LGA 1151 and LGA 1151v2.
what app are you using to see your fps?
K1200, not that bad, but prices for a GTX1050 4GB are so low now... so if u have the space and don't need C4D or something, just get one of those.
you can also get a HP Elitedesk 800 with a ryzen pro 2nd cpu
Home servers typically crash at idle quite a bit?? That has NEVER been the case for me and I've had some ridiculous uptimes on mine.
No, haha, I was saying that home servers are often idling. Not crashing lol. I probably could've been more clear haha
OK yes, that makes a whole lot more sense.
I just bought one of these and mine comes with 2400G and onboard graphics ! I'mma trying buying a tesla p4 for encoding and passthrough and a ryzen 1700 pro ! can you test in the next video if a normal 1700 or a pro version will work in it if you have the cpu on hand ? i cant effort to test that
At work we are almost 100% Dell Optiplex except few NUCs and my Ryzen 5700G. And yes, I don't see it downclock ever. It is a monster CPU for my IT job, but I'm afraid it uses more power than needed. Oh, but our Dell Epyc servers rock!
@4:03 The blood sacrifice has been fullfilled.
My favorite part of the video? the boston terrier!💚
I have the newer cousin, 7040. Noctua fans, $16 each, make this thing nearly silent. Would recommend.
That Ryzen PRO sticker/case badge is kind of sexy though not going to lie
My Dell has a X370 MB, but Dell just won’t upgrade the bios to support and it only supports the 1st gen Ryzen…
Thanks Smithers O’Neill !
Does the ryzen pro cpu use ecc memory?
Can it use ryzen 7 1700x or 1700?
My dell r420 with dual cpus idles at 84 watts with multiple drives and all services running idle
I definitely knew this amazing channel existed.
I thought it is the first AM4 APU for AM4, which is based on the Excavator architecture.
First gen Ryzen idle crashing was mostly because of bad S3 sleep implementation. Just turn it off in the BIOS.
An option for gpu upgrade would be something like a t400 it is single slot half height and uses the same di as the gtx 1650
I actually ordered a t1000 to put in it in a follow up (and to have for future issues like this)
Great minds as they say
The best AMD cpus for low power home servers atm would be the 4700GE and the 5700GE, which are OEM only. They do have integrated graphics, 8 cores/16 threads and a 35W TDP.
También Ryzen 3 2200G, 3200G y 4300G; y 5 2400G, 3400G y 4600G.
ooh...they have 1/2 height 4x NVME cards!
Power draw isn't always the killer...a high speed NAS would be sweet, especially since NVME's are getting much cheaper (and larger storage capacity)
Pretty cool!!!
Definitely run circles around SBC's for sure!
Keep em coming!!!!
Great video, I know this not a gaming channel but it would be awesome if you could test it with an rx 6400 because there’s a single slot variant
Yeah, I can't believe I never realized that until people commented it.
Do a review on older intel core lineups