Disney's Anti-Romantic Crusade | Let's Talk
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- #disney #romance #disneyprincess #discussion #waltdisney
Bring back Disney romance! What do Disney's Moana, Brave, Raya and the Last Dragon, Encanto, and Wish movies all have in common? It's no coincidence that the more recent lead heroines in Disney animated films are all missing one element from their respective movies - no love interest. For the last 10 years, Disney has been romance-averse at ALL costs and refuses to allow their heroines to even swoon in the direction of a male character. Hollywood has been on a crusade to "correct" the image of the Disney princess. Even the Little Mermaid and the Beauty and the Beast remakes suffer from this ideology. For whatever strange reason, they feel that stories incorporating love or romance are some kind of atrocious and demeaning offense to women and girls everywhere. Obviously, this couldn't be further from the truth. Let's talk about Disney movies and why Disney's correctional approach is doing more harm than good.
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(Intro/Outro): Ibrahim - A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes
When asking Disney to show how love can be complicated, keep in mind the developmental stage of their young target audience. You're asking for nuances that older people will understand to be injected into movies that really aren't meant for us. Family movies are meant to be enjoyed first by KIDS, but with elements that will keep adults interested enough to sit through it. Little kids aren't at a stage yet where they're even capable of a lot of the subtleties of the various complications that come with love. They can't understand this subtleties without a chance to learn what love is in the first place.
I totally understand what you're saying, but I disagree. How many animated movies have we seen as kids where we didn't fully understand the complexities of various concepts until we got a little older? The beauty is that we can look back to those films and have an even deeper understanding and further appreciation for the narrative. Those movies were already beloved by us for the more surface-level things we could understand at the time, and then we loved them even more as we matured.
Encanto is a recent example that is fantastic! A child may not fully understand why Abuela was dismissive and overprotective when it came to her family or her trauma as a mother and survivor, for example. Yet, that movie was super successful and loved by both kids and adults. When these kids are older, they can appreciate the film even more because they'll have more of a breadth of understanding for the nuances and complexities. But you know what? - they'll ALWAYS be able to say that the representation was there and that they were exposed to it from a young age.
Plus, kids aren't stupid. They comprehend a little more than what we give them credit for, even if they may not be able to analyze it deeply. They also have a subconscious mind, just like we do.
-JoJo
Dude there’s romance in old Disney movies.
Kids aren't that stupid.
Regular male character: fights villains, saves the world, fulfills his dream and gets the girl in the end.
"Strong female character": my limitless power doesn't allow me to complete this entire to-do list, I'll choose only one thing.
😆
Another difference is that they're not based on folktales. A lot of Disney's love stories were from readapted fairy tales.
I never thought about that!
Even as a proud AroAce, the lack of romance thing has been peeving me off for a while, on top of their inability to write competent male characters. I've been personally mourning the degradation of the Prince Charming trope because they were always my role models and toys I played with while my older sisters were hogging all the princesses for themselves. Hollywood has been so busy shaming men for being bad men, they forgot that they have their hands on the perfect platform to lead by example. If you don't like modern men, show us men who are better role models!!! #SavePrinceCharming
These days, it's more popular to parody fairy tales in Western media than to idealize them. The tropes are either played for laughs or utilized to tell a darker horror level story.
Thing is, the Prince Charmings weren't even bad guys. Aurora and Prince Phillip were from a time when marriage was business, not about love AT ALL, hence him being engaged to her when she was a newborn. The idea that these two people who were contracted to be married against their wills (stand-ins were used for brides and/or grooms who weren't present at their own weddings) could actually have some attraction to each other was actually progressive for the time of the story. The story wasn't even about her as much as it was about the prince's journey, and what he was willing to risk to save a woman he barely knew.
Cinderella's Prince Charming was also being forced against his will. Like Phillip, he found some attraction to someone, and given that he had no choice about the position he was in, he tried to make the best of it, and for Cinderella, this man she was attracted to was a way out of an abusive home-life.
Eric was a full-fledged character with more sides to him than Ariel, and Ariel's primary fascination wasn't even him. She was interested in the human world, and Ursula used Eric to manipulate her.
FR like they're not even making these characters AroAce, they're just writing out any notion of romance at all. Like they can write a story about a woman falling in love with a guy when she's dealing with her own story arc, look at Elemental for example
Idk why people don't talk about the princes in Disney movies more as role models for positive masculinity. They all used their strength to protect the people they loved; Prince Eric crashed the ship he was on himself to save Ariel, Phillip was willing to fight a whole-ass dragon to save Aurora, the Beast almost lost his life to protect Belle and the castle full of basically his family, and Eugene was willing to die to keep Rapunzel out of Gothel's hands. If that isn't love, what is? Romance and love are some of the most beautiful parts of human existence, and to see Disney make fun of it now in such a cheap way is honestly so sad and lowkey disrespectful to the legacy that made them such a successful company in the first place.
I think the fact that the lack of romance is also happening more with the POC characters is coincidental. They are going with the anti-romance angle, and at the same time, they are trying to tell more stories from non-white characters. It's great they are featuring more POC but it sucks they aren't getting the romantic story lines! I totally agree that romance can be added to a character's bigger story. No need to make it THE focus, but also no need to omit it completely.
Basically, an intersectional character is better for that just so they can shove faster and quicker their agenda, rather than doing multiple films for the matters.
I was gonna say that too. I think Disney wants to include all a none white protagonist, a female protagonist, and women someone who doesn't care for romance, and it just looks bad.
Edit: That isnt to say I wouldn't appreciate if romance is no longer put on a pedestal, in real life and entertainment. And if they DID explore other types of love, but the friendships and family bonds don't help the heroines in any meaningful way. AND romance can/should come naturally. Both the idea that all girls want romantic love (or should want romance) and the idea that they shouldn't are both forcing an idea on people
Good points! I kind of liked that in Frozen the “true love troupe” was turned around to include your family not just the typical romantic version of true love. Made for a nice change, but then it seemed every movie had to have that twist. I miss my romance.
My hypothesis is THIS is why Elemental did so well out of left field. No one was gonna watch that but it ended up being so cute and the romance was ADORABLE. Pixar has actually been great at romance every now and then, Disney should take notes.
I just commented something similar. Elemental also had so much heart from the creator who based the story loosely on his own life experiences.
And it allowed the characters to have more than one thing.
They showed their familial relationships, career dreams, all while finding love with each other.
In that way, it was realistic.
I wish I could ask one of these actresses that always say that the older female characters only purpose and goal was to wait for a man and that the new movies don’t have romance because it would mean the female characters only purpose and goal was to wait for a man: “have you ever had a boyfriend/husband?” And if they say yes ask “why is was your only purpose and goal to find a man?” See what they say. Millions of women in real life have romantic relationships with men and yet that relationship is only one facet of their life, not an entire existence. Why should a female character be any different? Why are male characters seen as strong enough to have a love interest and not be totally consumed by her, still having his own life and goals but female characters aren’t? As if the strength of their personality and character can’t possibly survive contact with a man.
Well, it's not as if these characters can't theoretically find love in their lives at some point. But a movie only covers a distint part (sometimes only days) of a character's life. It is completely reasonable to not include romance in every movie, especially when the lead is preoccupied with other things
I love the sister story in Frozen and the mother daughter story in Brave but mix it up! Bring back the romance!
For me it's two things:
1) they are scared to write romance because they know they aren't good enough to create a male character people would love and a couple people would ship (honestly they should go look for inspiration on AO3, I read the best love stories there)
2) They do not know how to conciliate feminism with the concept of a romantic heterosexual relationship. Which is very alarming because they are spreading the message that strong women cannot coexist with men in a romantic setting, and that if you want to enter a romantic relationship with a man you must be weak and submissive.
And when we do see a strong female lead have a romantic interaction with a man it's almost always the "Enemy/unlikable acquaintance-to-lovers" trope where the two spend their time bickering until one day POOF they realize they actually have the hots for each other. And more often than not the female lead isn't even strong, she's just stubborn with a temper...
What I would LOVE is to see a strong female lead (capable, level-headed, smart, NOT PIG-HEADED OR RUDE) falling in love with a male lead who isn't a smug, unlikable smartass.
It makes me kind of sad because most of these kids will grow up and either get married or at least date and it's good to give them examples of healthy relationships so they aren't going into life feeling like they have to go it alone
Asha's voice actor answer to no love in the movie made me mad...I feel like all these actors are told to say that line "not every women needs to find love for a man..." or some shit like that bc i swear to god its literally getting on my nerves how they always answer his question the same way. 🙄
I find it funny the romance in Disney is found in their queer shows/ movies, but never in the “mainstream”. Like, they canceled the owl house and they passed up Nimona.
Edit: also, the other thing that had somewhat romance was Turning Red, but that’s more like the love of family and friends. And I still live the main character and her friends were down for romance, but they were more focused on their bond with eachother and the main protag’s family.
Don't forget svtfoe even if the Romance was terrible 😅
You know, at first I thought Disney was exploring other kinds of relationships (friendships, families, self worth) and I was impressed, but now that you mention it, the lack of love stories is concerning.
Yes, and it keeps getting worse. Like I said in the video, they wouldn't even do it for something as big as their centennial celebration! That's concerning to me!
I really enjoy your thoughts on Disney. I grew up during the Disney Renaissance and it was enjoyed by both kids and parents. My late father really liked Beauty and the Beast and so that movie holds an extra special place in my heart. Also, the soundtracks were fire back then! From Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, Tarzan etc...For me the last Disney princess movie that I loved was Tangled. The heroine finds herself, saves her man, and he reciprocates true love.
Hasn’t Disney forgotten that true love conquers all?
I agree, my dude. Romance is a part of life and it's weird to eliminate it from all stories the way they are doing.
It really isn't for everyone tho, as an aromantic I'm a bit worried to see the aromantic flag in the thumbnail, it makes it look as if we're somehow a part of the problem Disney has with understanding what the public actually wants to see. Like i agree, the no romance policy in Disney movies lately is disappointing, but still :/
@@Piriguin_aweonekethe thumbnail isn’t making A’s look bad, it’s the drastic change
@@Femmeaesthetic I'm only saying without context it looks as if aro people had anything to do with the topic, but we all know it's just Disney trying to be pro strong woman but literally thinking that anything girly doesn't convey strength, including romance
it can’t be eliminated if it was never the focus of the story in the first place
@@Piriguin_aweoneke Romance is a part of life for the overwhelming VAST majority of the population, and it's the reason most of us are even here in the first place. Stop making things about you.
To Asha's comment about "Not every Disney female needs to simply find man to love". Reason why Brave worked was due to the whole mother/daughter dynamic. Tale as old as time. Can not have every movie be like this. There needs to be movies with love in it. And great example with Lilo and Stitch. But Disney isn't bringing out good movies. Good video and points.
Another excellent video! Brave is such a great film - it was marketed as a princess movie, but it’s really a love story about a Parent and Child, and their quest to understand each other. Keep up the great work, thank you! 🙌💕
Thank you so much! I'll do my best!
As an aroace, literally the only non-romance focused Disney story recently that felt validating to me was Brave. And that's specifically the vibes of the I'll Be Shooting For My Own Hand scene. Very big aroace vibes there. All the other ones, especially the Wish gal, could have or not have romance subplots and I wouldn't have cared either way or even leaned toward them doing something with a romance. I honestly find the idea of the Wish gal falling in love with the starboy cute.
Disney should have kept Starboy in! That movie had 0 competent males, and they were boring. A quirky, quick-on-the-toes, shape-shifting, magical male counterpart would have been so fun! But hey, in this era, men take a back seat and are docile (unless they're the villain).
I find it troubling that Merida is automatically assumed to be ace because she doesn't want to be forced into marriage. For all we know, she's not ace at all, but rather was so focused on finding a way out of being forced that she didn't have a chance to think about who she might be interested in. Given the men who were shooting for her hand, or her shooting for her own to try to take it away from men she didn't want, she did what she had to do so she could be available later if she wanted.
@@NoelleTakestheSky Also, she was checking out the big guy who was part of Lord Dingwall's entourage. Seeing her and Fergus's responses to Elinor's announcement, it was less "I don't want to marry" and more "This wasn't the time we planned."
So trueeee 🤝🤝🤝
If Disney wants to go back to adapting love stories from folktales, I recommend "The Legend of the White Snake." I am aware China already made an animated version of the story, but I think it's a more ideal folkstory to explore different relationships because unlike with "Frozen, " they have a pair of sisters that is already incorporated into the narrative. And, as I recall, in the original narrative, they're not related by blood, so it would be interesting take on having a healthy "step-sibling" (I can't think of a better term) relationship vs a romantic relationship. Up until "Frozen," Disney was fairly faithful in the narrative adaptation of fairy tales with a few detail changes for the modern audience, so it would be interesting to see how they could have incorporated the two relationships.
I think I read somewhere that one of the reasons they changed the original idea of Starboy from Wish to a cute star creature was because they can make more money by selling cute star plushies and other merch. A shame though.
They could have just made the star body an iconic form that he shapeshifts into at times. Or, they could've made Star an assistant to Starboy, just like how Tinker Bell was to Peter Pan (BOOM! Another reference!)! They're making goofy excuses, in my opinion. I swear, they need actual fans/Disney geeks in those rooms when creating these films. 😮💨
@@WondrousJoJo I agree. I'm quite disappointed in Disney lately, I don't feel like watching their newer movies. I hope they will make good stories again sometime in the future. I'd also love to see 2d animation again. By the way I love Sleeping Beauty :D It brings back those childhood feelings of magic and wonder when I watch it. I don't mind if it's just a simple fairy tale, my aunt used to read it and other tales for me and my sister when we were young. We loved listening to those even as teens.
@WondrousJoJo They needed a "Flounder" character to fulfill the Disney Princess Sidekick trope, hence the star remaining a star. Other characters include Jacques, Mushu, Flounder, and Olaf to name a few.
@X2011racer Does Valentino not count?
@@WondrousJoJo Who's that?
Once more with feeling folks: women choosing romance is not the problem, women not choosing romance is not problem, telling women they have to choose one is the problem. It's all about freedom of choice and they should be allowed to choose both if they want to.
Around 11:50 mentioning the idea of finding a love interest while the heroine is on her own journey, my mind jumped to tangled. I guess thats still maybe not ideal bc eugene was the first guy rapunzel ever knew, but still. I felt like disney was onto something there, but they didnt follow through, yknow?
Edit: Or MULAN. How could I forget my favorite childhood movie? Tbf, I do think they could have left out the romance and had Shang just respect the heck out of his soldier. But yknow what? I did ship them even before I knew the term.
I see where you are coming from. With Mulan, the romance wasn't even until the last few minutes of the movie. I liked that Mulan was able to command respect from China and especially men while also being able to get a man. I remember in the movie, there were people who didn't believe that she could be an honorable or suitable partner. So not only did she save China, she also proved everyone wrong in that regard as well.
Romance can also drive the conflict of stories too, especially when they dont always end in happily ever afters.
For anyone who remembers the "Duck Dodgers" animated television show, could you imagine how that show would be if there was no romantic turmoil whatsoever?
Whenever I ask people if they remember this show, they always ALWAYS remember the attractive martian queen Tyrahnee and how she was so dumb for not choosing Marvin the Martian over Daffy Duck.
If Tyrahnee had just been a stone cold serious martian lady who ruled with an iron fist with no man on her mind whatsoever, we wouldnt have been so invested in her as a character. Her romantic interest showed that despite being a bold queen, she also had a soft side. She wanted the best of both worlds, being a nobel ruler and wanting a true love.
This show arguably is what helped Marvin the Martian be more complex as a character as well, showing that despite being an angry martian who is initially known for destroying things, is also shown to be husband material! ❤
Wish should´ve been a 2D animated movie based on a fairytale including a villain and a love interest
Amen!
I’m a woman. I LOVE love stories. I love seeing these likeable characters fall in love. These “strong female characters” are not my power fantasies because they lack heavily the part most little girls love. The fantasy romance.
I love this video! I have so many thoughts. First, I love several of the movies where an "alternative happy ending" is shown (like Encanto), but I agree that this doesn't have to be every film!
Thank you!
And yeah, switching it up from time to time is very welcomed. We just don't want the same thing EVERY movie.
Funny enough the movies you mentioned that “don’t need no man” are ones that I have found to be very boring
Not gonna lie, I thought Moana was boring. It's sad because I love the ocean, and it's usually hard to bore me with water-themed films. I didn't care for the giant crab at all, and I felt like Maui was just the Rock playing himself.
I thought Encanto was fine. I left the theatre conflicted about some of the themes in the film, which was great because the movie inspired discussions about navigating family trauma and ultimately showing acceptance and forgiveness.
I didn't completely finish Raya... but I wasn't all that enthused with the film. And Wish...I already have a video with a lot of my thoughts about that film.
@@WondrousJoJo I watch Moana ONCE in theaters and haven’t since. Encanto was really confusing to me as a film and Raya was just boring.
Another thing that I’ve noticed that all of the movies have in common is that their villains are redeemable and not sure how I feel about that
Encanto is one of the best films they've ever made. It's a film about familial dysfunction. How trying to build a home and family with heavy unresolved trauma is going to set them up failure. That the "peace" they were trying to maintain by ignoring their issue wasn't peace, it was quiet.
It was never up to Mirabel to save their home, it was always up to Abuela. Only after Abuela sees the home has fallen apart does she finally confront her pain, fears, and mistakes. She's the one who has to change in order for the home to be rebuilt. Lesser stories would have put all the responsibility on Mirabel to save the miracle and allowed Abuela to go on unchallenged. Never curing the illness, just treating the symptoms. Abuela apologizing to Mirabel, followed by Mirabels empathy and encouragement to build again is, to me, the most beautiful and heartfelt moment in any of the Disney films. I want more films like this, romance or not. Sincere in their storytelling. And a message that can truly help people.
@@Mini-Toast_ I can see what you mean by sincere storytelling (I want that back too) but I felt like there were to many subplots and that the writers should have stuck with Bruno’s and Mirabel’s estrangement from the family instead of adding EVERYONES problems into the mix (to me it felt like in doing that it took away the fact that a MOTHER banished her own CHID because of some curse). Also Abuela was forgiven too easily.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Moana was boring, Raya and the last Dragon was boring and annoying.
Encanto was okay because of the family history and trauma.
David in Lilo and Stitch is one of the BEST Disney men, and his romance with Nani is one of my favorites they’ve ever written. So that movie does have great romantic representation - while also having sisterly love and friendship love!
Although I agree with you about Aurora from Sleeping Beuaty having a character focused on a not very developed love, I think the movie also has an example of good female characters. If you watch the movie, you'll ser that the main characters are actually the faries. They are the ones with the most screen time, the ones that oppose the main antagonist from the beggining and move the story forward, they rescued the prince and the dragon was only killed because of them. They are a trio of strong, magical older women with no love interest that I think most people forget about when talking about Disney female representation.
I agree with you. I really thought about it more after I first read your comment. I wish the 3 good fairies were given more recognition. The issue is that Aurora is/has been centralized through marketing. Because of that, Aurora gets her criticism because we want to see her be on par with other princesses. The truth is, she isn't on par. The other girls were more active in their stories than she was in hers. As you've stated, the fairies are the real heroic women of the story.
I agree. I think we also need to keep in mind the first Disney princesses were based on Grimm's fairy tales. I also think that most kids are intelligent enough to realize real romances aren't like that. If they do, I question what the parents are teaching them in regards to healthy relationships. We like the idea of a fairy tale romance which is why we watch Hallmark movies
The lack of romance made *sense* in Brave. This was a movie about mending her relationship with her mother and it was a very powerful story about setting aside one's pride and truly listening to one another. I feel like any time spent with a love interest would have taken away from that story.
Encanto I also get it. That movie was, again, about mending a family and generational trauma. For Moana, it made sense. Like Maui was definitely a romantic potential considering how young Moana was and she had shit to do but I also would have taken a potential love interest in place of that chicken. Just leave it girl. It should not live to reproduce.
For Raya, I don't know if anything could have save that plot. Idk. If Sissu was a love interest instead of the annoying idiot Messiah trope she actually was? That could have worked. Though I did ship her with that other chick too so they could have at least had the balls to pull the trigger on that one. I mean if any of the characters were written with any sort of charisma.
I don't know about Wish. I've not gotten around to watching it. I feel like I'm going to walk away from it saying "Eh. It was okay." and then forget the plot in a month? I've been good about managing my expectations about things like the new Avatar adaptation or the new Mean Girls Broadway adaptation. But this is a Disney Princess movie so my expectations are pretty high. And I don't think there's anything I can do about that. I loved Brave and Encanto and frankly didn't care there wasn't a love interest. For Raya, the lack of personality was what offended me. (I'm sorry. Her personality was 'The Protagonist')
This isn't related to the video but in this video you kind of reminded me of Captain Jack Sparrow
That's a compliment!👌🏽
For real, they need to bring the romance back😁✨️
Hetero couples are not automatically bad influences on young girls. Let love be seen! I have nothing wrong with the way they depict side characters in queer relationships despite what Disney keeps telling us, I just want a protagonist to have a good life at the end, and most of us include life partners in that "happily ever after" Somewhere along the way they decided love interests were a "reward" for saving the day. I guess every single married couple represents a shallow transactional agreement after your've run out of adventure. Very wholesome Disney... 🙄
Yeah, there actually was a time in Hollywood history where a love interest was just merely a prize to be won. These stories were mostly from the male perspective, where "love" was just a conquest. Thankfully, we're long done with that toxic male troupe.
Thank you for description of what Disney is lacking. My heart has been that Disney has been lacking this. In fact, I am more counting that romance has been quiet since Tangled. Won't deny their attempt at Frozen with Anna and Kristoff is very genuine, but Frozen is heavily themed for the sisters. And did you see how badly it was in Frozen 2? For they said that Kristoff would have a problem opening his heart when it's actually Anna even not trying to be more on his side.
First of all, your make-up game is on point!
Secondly... On the one hand, it's okay to explore storytelling that doesn't revolve around love and the pursuit thereof. On the other hand, doing so simply omits a huge, HUGE part of the human experience. On the third malformed mutant hand, it's not... unreasonable... to recognize how this all seems to align with or respond to a general societal deconstruction of love relationships. Sure, one can accuse me of conspiracy theories, but I think it's naive NOT to perceive the cumulative effect of messaging that celebrates promiscuity, divorce, sex work, pornography, polyamoury, single parentage, the so-called manosphere, pick-up culture, toxic feminism/misandry, narcissism, and "queerness," and how those sorts of concepts damage the ability of young straight and LGBT people alike to understand what healthy romantic relationships are and what value they have.
Also, I was amused by your talk about loving someone enough to let them go is that this was the original story of The Little Mermaid, and it's how she achieves transcendence.
Disney did have films that explored ideas beyond romantic love before, though. "Lilo and Stitch" was a nature vs nurture/found family story, "Mulan" barely had any romance and placed more emphasis on family dynamics, and "Mary-Poppins" focused on a lot more on Mr. Banks' character, and he was already married. Even "Sleeping Beauty" doesn't put that much emphasis on romantic love. Sure, they incorporate the "true love's kiss" pretty fast, but Aurora/Rose wasn't even the main focus in the film; the fairies were.
@@ThePrincessCH Oh sure... Hell, PINOCCHIO is largely a sausage party. Which is why I said there's nothing wrong with not having love as a focus, but it nevertheless leaves out a huge part of the human experience. And this particular wave of palpable antagonism towards love is part of a larger societal deconstruction of the concept.
I appreciate that! It was my first time ever doing something like that with my face, haha.
Lol, "the third malformed mutant hand."
Well, they say "art imitates life," but I also think life imitates art as well. I think they both play out simultaneously. It seems like these days, Hollywood makes what they think people want to see or should see. These efforts aim to influence society to create change. I think the problem is that the reality of things is not taken into account sometimes. Sure, there may be a group of women out there who, for example, want more female representation where they don't even deal with men at all... but ultimately, that's not the vast majority of girls and women. Realistically, the vast majority of people (especially women) do want to be in a happy lifelong relationship and do enjoy romance and love and is part of their primal desires. It's ok to represent the outliers, but I feel Disney has been overdoing it. There is a part in my original script for this video where I was going to discuss the realities of modern young folks with feeling lonely and struggling to establish healthy relationships, but I left it out for time's sake. Maybe I'll give that topic its own video.
As for the original Little Mermaid novel, I guess that does apply! When I wrote that line, I was thinking of the movie Hancock with Will Smith. I don't want to spoil it if you've never seen it. Without saying too much, there are characters in the film who must stay apart from one another even though they love each other. That was the first time I could remember that I had ever seen a concept like that in a movie.
Every single actress cast as a lead in a Disney remake: "I think it's finally time to have a princess who can do things on her own. Not everyone needs romance!"
Disney: ~hasn't given a princess a romantic love interest in 25 years~
Exactly! 😄😄😄
The Princess and the Frog and Tangled are two of my favorite love stories from Disney because the couples falling in love and growing as people go hand in hand. Using love this way shows a healthy relationship, drives the plot, and is easy for children to understand and idolize.
The first few drafts of the script for this video actually did bring up Tangled and how it was a much healthier depiction of romance!
I LOVE your look in this video. And I would love to see more healthy, realized romantic relationships come back into princess movies, too. There's definitely a place for ace representation, but it doesn't need to be ALL the new girls.
Also I loved Frozen. I thought it had one of the most important lessons for children ever, about how some people are tricky and hide their true nature, and that person you thought was your true love might not be - he might turn out to be the guy you least expected.
Maybe the reason we're not seeing any healthy romance portrayed these days is because no one who's producing Disney movies knows how to have a healthy relationship of their own...
Thank you!
Yeah, I have no issues with ace representation at all, but it doesn't need to be all of the new female leads (as you've stated). I think it's healthier to have stories where the female lead obtains other significant blessings in her life that aren't romance related. For a while, I didn't even notice the newer girls were single. Then, as the years went on and the new leads piled up, it became far more obvious what train Disney was riding. I feel like that's when you know there's a little too much of a thing.
I miss Disney love stories. At least the Disney shows haven't forgotten.
You should make a video explaining the toys on the shelf. I’m digging the black ranger. What are your fandoms?
Here is the thing Once Upon a time for example Snow White she was a strong woman who fights but also fell in love and got married and had kids yet she still kept her strength even though she believed in true love and happiness. It didn’t stop her from being a strong leader.
The relationship was very well balanced because he saved her a number of times and she in turn also saved him.
In general love and being strong. It did not stop the other female characters finding love but also being a girl boss.
The show demonstrated so perfectly how one can have both and that’s ok.
It is ok to find strength through love.
I missing love on, too! They'll Storger like.... Jasmine, Meg, Kida, Candy
THIS. THIS is why Elemental does not deserve to be the obscure beauty that it is and it deserves a million times the recognition it got.
Yes, sometimes a female protagonist with a male love interest will require her to be put in a “damsel in distress” situation. But Ember is much more than just that; *let your female characters be vulnerable.* Is it so hard?
I still have yet to see Elemental. It sounds promising that the female character seems to be more natural and not some obnoxious girl boss. They probably mostly save that troupe for their "Princess" and "Hero" movies.
I think eventually Disney will come back to romance. Wish did give us a more traditional villain (if poorly executed),so they're slowly going back to their roots. I think Wish is the first time one of these movies could have been better with its love interest. I like Moana and Encanto not having one is fine, but Wish feels like it really had more interesting ideas with the romance.
Lord have mercy, I feel like you have read my thoughts! I also feel like Tiana was the last princess to have her own personality. Like Belle, Pocahontas, Ariel and Mulan all had very different personalities.
Ever since Tangled, all the Disney female characters have the same personality and cadence (no mater what era the movie is based in)
Have you seen Elemental? I think that was a beautiful love story. I wish we could get a princess story with that type of falling in love story again.
Yes! I feel like the repetitive personality is Disney trying to make the girls relatable and more personable... but it's just exhausting now. It was cutesy with Rapunzel, but now Mirabel and Asha are similar, and it's too much.
I have not seen Elemental, but I'm hearing decent things about it, so maybe I'll check it out sometime.
Being blunt, I think most women do want a loving romantic relationship, but some (not all) might say they "don't need a man" because they have been hurt or have given up or they simply can't get/keep one. I don't buy that anyone can naturally fight an inherent biological urge that keeps the human population going. Most people want that, some just aren't as open/honest about admitting it because they don't want to come off as needy/desperate. Not saying there aren't some people who are genuinely happy with being permanently single, but Disney appears to push the idea to the point of toxicity. (E.g., HB Ariel defeated Ursula, not Eric, who ended up not marrying her).
I think most people want to be in a happy relationship. But, I also genuinely believe that there are some people out there who truly are aromantic and do not wish to engage in romantic affairs and have a relationship, nor are they biologically driven for it. And that might be a good thing. Realistically, there simply aren't enough people on the planet for *everyone* to find a suitable partner. Especially heterosexuals. There are more females than males in the human species. The sad truth is that not every woman is going to find a suitable man. So hey, if some people don't have any romantic inclinations, then that leaves more for everyone else who does.
I agree that Disney pushes it to the point of toxicity. It's exhausting, and I'm curious to see 10 years from now what that generation will be like when it comes to dating/romance/marriage.
@@WondrousJoJo I agree to a certain extent. Not every woman will find a good husband because too many men get lost in wars etc. but people who are oriented in that way might not necessarily be asexual. So in some cases being aromatic can result in toxic trends (booty calls, one-night stands, promiscuity, unwanted pregnancies) which in turn can lead to the romantics being used and abused. To each their own of course but I'm honestly not optimistic that the new generation will turn out well.
It exposes a double standard that'll never go away.
Men are told that they have to put everyone else before them. Wives, children, lovers, etc. Women are encouraged to look out for themselves.
If a female character bails on their responsibilities, it's triumphant. She's free. If a male character does the same, it's wrong. He's a deserter.
In fact, you can see it in Frozen. Elsa runs away after her powers are revealed and sings a song about how she's free and starting a new life. Ironically, when Anna finds her, she's back to having a pity party. The latter half is likely an attempt to get audiences to care for Elsa, since everything else was from an early draft where she was the villain.
Now rewind back nearly 20 years prior in The Lion King. Simba runs away after thinking he killed Mufasa. He makes some new friends and sings a song about how he's leaving his old life behind to stop caring. His childhood friend Nala comes across him after leaving the Pridelands, which have gone downhill after Scar took over. Simba refuses to return, and he's chewed out by Nala and needs Rafiki to knock some sense into him.
To add to the anti-love agenda Disney has adopted, it's similar to the sudden aversion to having families. Women are being told that getting married and having kids does nothing but slow them down. Women need to look out for number one and not allow some brat to get in their way.
9 times out of 10, women who believe this sentiment are the epitome of the saying "Always a bridesmaid, never a bride".
Wow, this is a good comment! I totally agree with you, and I see what you mean! Women are often given more freedom to deviate from the standard and be praised for it. There are times men can deviate, too, but it must be extremely conditional (and even then, he runs the risk of still not being seen as a "real man"). Some modern-day messages are definitely negatively affecting society.
Nala is the GOAT! She is legitimately their best written Disney female precisely because she went out scouting for help and chewed on her man's ass 'til he took responsibility. That's the power of women, and it should be celebrated. She played an active role in saving the pridelands and saved Simba from his self-indulgent incel lifestyle. She's the hero of the whole dang story but gets ignored because boy lions go 'rawr'. If your idea of a hero is purely muscle and pedigree, you missed the point of The Lion King
@Parcha64 I don't think Nala is the best written female character in all of Disney's catalogue. She's great, but not THAT great.
If the cost of living was less, more women would marry and have kids. Right now it is PROHIBITIVELY expensive to have kids, own a house, etc. Also more women are staying single instead of dealing with weaponized incompetence/disrespect by their partner. Society needs to change and add incentives for women to marry and reproduce. Wages need to increase, childcare shouldn't cost an arm and a leg, fewer sandwich jokes, etc.
@@devchekhov7512 Good old Whataboutisms.
My theory in the lapover between princesses of color and lack of romantic interests, is that both these representations overlapped for Disney. As in, the same that they started including more princesses of color was also the same time they decided to get rid of romantic interests. Like, killing 2 birds with 1 stone kind of thing, which sounds ridiculous 😅.
Yes, I agree! I think it's lazy and sometimes harmful to lump together underrepresented identities. I understand that intersectionality is a real thing, and I think it *should* be accounted for.... but repeated use can become mundane and look like some sort of weird agenda (like in this case, haha).
See - I loved Frozen when it came out. I still do. I felt like THIS was like a Disney movie from my childhood! This was my daughter’s “The Little Mermaid” (she was 3 so yes we watched it all the time and I just thought it was so adorable). Great music, strong though flawed characters, beautiful visuals. My kids went to see Wish with their grandma and really didn’t have anything to say about it either way - it was “meh”. You would think Disney would be learning their lessons about what makes a story that resonates and a film that people enjoy and care about. Frozen was marketed to death but there is a reason that all those little kids were belting those songs at the top of their lungs and it wasn’t because they had all the dolls. They genuinely loved the movie.
Here's the thing: Disney used to be good at giving us variety. We got films where the romance was basically the entire central focus (Cinderella, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Alladin), movies where the romance isn't the main point but forms a big part of the protagonists journey (Snow White, Tangled, Hercules, Bambi, The Lion King, Princess and the Frog), films where the romance is present but very downplayed or only exists as a distant side plot (Mulan, Peter Pan, The Rescuers), and movies that were completely devoid of romance (Dumbo, Fox and the Hound, The Great Moise Detective). I blame Disney's current fear of Romance on how much of the Disney Renaissance was romance centred, causing audiences to become exhausted with it, and bad faith criticisms of old Disney films. Modern Disney is extremely insecure and worried about presenting itself in the most neutral way possible. It doesn't want to put its female characters in relationships because they're worried about BuzzFeed articles calling their girls weak. Disney isn't going to have classically scary villains because that might scare the kids. Disney will have musical numbers, but they will absolutely mock the concept of singing before and after to kill any senss of sincerity. It's all incredibly insecure.
I do agree with you that Disney seems very apprehensive and risk-averse when making certain decisions. They should make the movies they genuinely want to make instead of making films that aim to please their critics. Then, when they are "daring," it's stupid stuff that they know will end up angering the fans. Wish, for example, could have been an amazing film. They made big mistakes, leaving Star Boy out and making only Magnifico evil. They also tried to play it way too safe in that movie.
Disney has proven before like with Lilo and Stitch and Findding Nemo and Brave that they can portray tension and flawedness in platonic/nonromantic relationships as good if not better than in romantic ones. I do sometimes like seeing people experience romance in rl and fiction as long as they're healthy and mature and both people consent to having this sort of relationship, otherwise it won't hurt for romance to take the backseat every once in a while if it means emotionaally intimate platonic/familial/nonromantic relationships and non-coupled characters get some positive representation as well. I'm saying this as a romance-indifferent Aroace that I don't inheritly hate romance like I'm happy for Disney's Cinderella and the prince who's canon name I believe is Henry but that doesn't change the fact it's thanks to the help from the mice and birds and Bruno and Fairy Godmother and her own emotional strength and kindness despite her unhappy circumstances that she even got to have her night out at the ball and due to a happy coincidence she met the prince and their lives change for the better, also the 2015 remake was incredible and unique in it's own right. Like I dunno Disney just needs to chill out with their propaganda and not belittle it's fans.
In addition to what you were saying about Wish:
The king and queen were also supposed to be a villain couple, but they changed it to only the king (the male) being a villain. 🤷🏽
Ugh!! I heard!! I thought evil Amaya with the cat was an awesome idea! Disney REALLY blew it! I also find it so ironic that they essentially released a book showing all the ways they sabotaged their own movie. 😩
@@WondrousJoJo The book showed the original plans for the movie. Some of them would of been better than what they put in the final version of the movie. But unfortunately, Disney is continuing with their DEI agenda by having a black female protagonist going up against a white male villain.
@@WondrousJoJo The book showed the original plans for the movie. Some of them would of been better than what they decided to put in the final version of the movie. Unfortunately, Disney is continuing with their DEI agenda by having a black female protagonist going up against a white male villain.
You mentioned two things.
Frozen. Anna was a princess too and she had a man. She got married (or were they only engaged?) in frozen 2. Do not leave my girl Anna out of this.
Edit: spoke too soon. Sorry.
And do agree, they had a sweet and mature healthy relationship.
As for people of color not having their love story: it is a little older: but princess and the frog: tiana and Naveen, one of the cutest couples in Disney. And yes, they should not have been frogs throughout a large majority of the movie, but they are still a favorite.
encanto Isn’t about romance love it about family love relationships
How dare they even consider showing a male and female helping each other grow, and challenging each other while falling in love. How unhealthy.
Falling in love is definitely not an important part of life. Finding that person who will be your partner for life , that will be there for you through thick and thin,, that person who grows old with you. Despicable
I know!! The absolute NERVE!
Thank you! While I feel that not every female character needs a love interest, I do miss love interests!!! While nowhere close to Disney, I was so relieved when Mizu, the ultimate badass protagonist from Blue Eye Samurai, felt romantic/sexual attraction to some of the men in her life.
Also (I believe) the last time Disney didn't focus *as much* on romance is considered the "Disney Dark Age" (1970-1988), and they bounced back from with quality films that, while they heavily feature romance, are not ONLY about romance (The Little Mermaid with following your dreams, Beauty and the Beast with valuing inner beauty and being yourself, Aladdin with generosity, kindness, and honesty making you worthy, not wealth or title).
I'm not against there being romance in Disney movies, but I am against romance being rushed. It's very fairy tale like obviously when they fall in love in a short period of time, but as an adult I'd prefer it to be more realistic, even if that would mean making a sequel or two to flesh it out better. Have the first movie end with them 'dating' and then lead up to a sequel where it's been a reasonable amount of time for their romance to make sense.
I agree, and I'd like to see that too! Disney did this with Aladdin. Aladdin and Jasmine only officially started dating/courting by the end of the original film. Only in the THIRD movie did they actually get married.
I disagree. I don’t go to Disney movies for realism. I like fluffy fairytales. I don’t care if they fall in love fast, I know it’s not real. Disney was made for escapism
Love this look! And as always you made some great points.
Thank you! 💜
The thing about Brave is that although Meredith didn’t end up with a man, she was never against it. She just wanted to find love in her “own time” and in her own way. Even the boys in the film didn’t want to go through with arrangement. I think that’s very progressive (okay Pixar I see you)
Agreed!
As someone who was once immersed in a group of people who all identified as some form of asexual/aromantic, it is impossible for me to unsee their narcissism and the narcissism of that "community" at large. There is something terribly off about fashioning a whole identity out of the incapability to feel attraction towards another human being. If you're not interested in relationships that is fine, but there's no need for a movement or a community around it. No need to hyperfocus on it in disney movies either, the narcissistic selfishness is just getting so tiresome to watch again and again.
I think I agree with you in the sense that it's not really an entire identity. It's not a personality trait, either. These individuals just simply do not desire to be in a romantic relationship or pursue it. Having said that, I can understand wanting to speak with and interact with others who are similar.
Please tell me you’ve heard ‘Antiromantic’ by TXT! Your outfit made me think of it.
No! But I did look them up, and I can see what you mean! 💜
I'm too boy-crazy to have an aversion to romance but I guess according to Disney I'm abnormal for that.
Wonderful video! I very much agree. I think another solution is to explore queer relationships. But I know they’re too scared of the backlash 🙄 I would love to see a princess have a female love interest, even if it’s not a huge part of the story.
Adding to this, who says a character can’t already have a romantic interest before the story starts? I would love to see a couple take on challenges of the story and explore how it affects their existing relationship. Girl power AND boy power!
Interestingly enough, I find that a lot of Chinese historical fantasy stories have some rather interesting queer stories. They have to go through Chinese censorship laws, but their relationships are almost Disney Renaissance level. I highly recommend "Heaven Offical's Blessing."
They could do that but looking at how things are nowadays that everything is political, even if you create a queer story and a really good one people will obviously call it woke and overrated due to how often they are done, I think the best course to take is to give it a couple of years until the waters hopefully calm down and then create actual stories and not walking DEI requirements because people want good entertainment, not to be told how everything is a construct and that if you don't accept X thing you are biggot
Well, as it stands, Disney did make Strange World. I know the movie bombed, but the representation is still there for maleXmale, and Ethan is a main character who is fully out and in a relationship. I'm actually surprised Disney did a fully out and open main-character male relationship before they did 2 females. Historically, it seems society has always been able to digest 2 women being together more easily than 2 men.
That would be nice too and they should do it, but it's not the solution to THIS particular problem.
The problem is they need to learn how to write a heterosexual relationship without it being incompatible with feminism or detrimental to the female lead.
If every strong female lead is either alone or paired up with another woman it perpetuates the stereotype that to be in a relationship with a man you must be a damsel in distress and men are incapable of "handling" a strong woman (which isn't true because they are, we just never ask them to). We need healthy representations of heterosexual couples
Don't bother with Frozen, just go straight to Tangled and be happy!
Hahaha!! I have a story about Frozen and how I ended up watching it for the first time. I'll share that story in a video about Frozen if I ever decide to make a video on that movie.
I bought Tangled many years ago, and if I find a topic or trait in that film that moves me or compels me, I'll do a Tangled video, too.
Disney needs to make interesting male characters as the main protagonist. Yes, you have Aladdin. But most lead characters are animals like Lion King and Bambi.
I absolutely agree!! I feel like it has been forever. Treasure Planet was one, but that was back in 2002. I'm sure there's like 1 or 2 other vague ones, but you're right. Usually, those male characters go to Pixar for some reason.
In all seriousness though I'm actually fine with this. I just wish it went both ways. I mean why cant we get a movie about a Prince that learns he doesn't need a woman and finds purpose outside of that? After all, the princess is strong and empowered on her own and doesn't need a prince. So let him find something else to do. They'd never do that of course because Disney hates men but if they did I would actually consider watching a Disney movie again.
Disney is primarily female-centered, unfortunately. If we look at some of the movies with male protagonists, there actually are a couple that kind of do follow what you'd like to see. For starters, The Emperor's New Groove is a great example. There is no romance for him in that movie, and Kuzco finds purpose, meaning, and happiness in other aspects of life. There is also Treasure Planet. Jim Hawkins, while not royalty (but neither were Asha or Mirabel), he learned more about the importance of non-romantic relationships (specifically father-figures and friends). He also learned to become more mature and follow his dreams (and there was no romance in sight). There's also Quasimodo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. While there was romance, he actually didn't get the girl in the end and had to learn that you make sacrifices to genuinely help others and not because you were kind of hoping for something out of it. He ended up getting what he NEEDED (social acceptance and community) instead of what he WANTED (Esmeralda and just simply being "out there" with the people).
There may be other examples, but that's what I have at the moment. My point is that Disney has done it, just not so much within the last 10 years or so. Would you like a new movie to also explore this concept? Or, are you fine with the examples in Disney's vault? Disney has definitely gone into overdrive with the 'I Don't Need No Man' productions, haha.
@@WondrousJoJo I re-watched Treasure Planet recently(Incredible film) but damn I really ought to re-watch Kuzco and Hunchback too. It's been a while. And yeah I get that Disney is female-centric but a couple of Prince movies every once in a while couldn't hurt. Those films came out years ago and we haven't gotten anything like it since. I don't know if it would even be good in the modern day considering it's current year and everything in current year is just mindless propaganda with no heart and soul behind it. So while I long for it, I acknowledge it would probably turn into some attack on men in general and somehow end up a female empowerment film. Can't trust Disney to just make a good movie these days. Guess I should start re-watching old films or just write it myself for fun. lol.
Some of it is due to our 2024 lens, it is hard to see 16 year olds have love stories when they are trying to figure themselves out.
I mean, I think it is easier with young adult high school shows and films because that is part of the genre.
The newer disney films put the princesses in plots where there is no time to think about romance, in my opinion.
For Wish, I really wanted to not make asha the main protagonist, but Magnifico and Amaya. I wanted to see their love story and why Magnifico has trouble with taking care of the wishes.
Maybe if the love stories involved adults, it would be easier to get behind. Or at least have a story where the princesses are not busy trying to save their homes where they can have time to find love.
I just watched wish and was a total disappointment, Disney is losing the magic to make good, simple histories
I don't know why but it seems to be part of their new agenda. Halle Bailey said her Ariel was seeing Eric as more of a luxury than a necessity and Rachel Zegler's Snow White is not going to be saved by a prince or will find true love but will become some type of independent Alpha female leader according to her. I guess there is nothing wrong with aromance if that's what some women are into but it isn't an idea Disney should try to impose onto young girls. Sexuality runs a gamut and the idea of pushing a particular lifestyle runs the risk of crushing dreams or having little girls think they are abnormal if they aren't keen on such a way of living. Whether or not a person wants to pursue romance or celibacy should be a matter of choice or no one should pressure anyone to take either one course or another.
Agreed! This is something I respect about Frozen; the movie displays both a romantic girl, and then there's her sister who doesn't seem to be very interested in relationships at all. To me, Frozen didn't feel forced when it came to telling different stories on love and romance.
I’m not a huge Frozen fan but it managed to have Anna explore romantic love with Christoph (and Hans) as well as sisterly love with Elsa. You can have both, and the fact romantic love has been absent for a decade it seems they have been omitting it purposely.
Exactly!!
Personally I like Brave and Ecanto I am aromantic but not antiromanice "i love Jane Austen and Bridgeeton.
Agree with everything but will stand by Aurora as a good role model, and even though she undeservingly gets a bad rap she happens to be the 3rd favorite princess of all time according to the whisper app . 14:12 was low-key covered in Pocahontas, an under appreciated masterpiece in my opinion.
I personally like Aurora and think she has a stunning design (and let's not forget that beautiful singing voice!). I had to be honest, though. She suffers from one-dimensional writing. Love is the only thing she talks about, dreams about, and during the few moments in the movie where she is active, it's all about wanting a romantic partner or the fact the she's betrothed. We don't learn anything else from that particular film about Aurora's personal desires, interests, hobbies, pet peeves/dislikes, etc. I get that she was literally sheltered for 16 years, but so was Rapunzel, and she has a lot more going on for her. Aurora has no real distinguishable personality, and I mean that with respect. As far as being a role model, she is kind, gentle, and a lady who conducts herself well. Those are good traits.
As for Pocahontas, yes, I can see why you say that counts as an example. Also, I can kinda understand why the movie wasn't well received... especially if you're of Native descent.
@@WondrousJoJo Aurora was the personification of femininity, a character as well as a symbolic representation. Both Aurora and Ariel are 16, but in terms of maturity Aurora is beyond her years, a true classy queen. When Triton says to Ariel she cant be with Eric she disobeys him. When Aurora's aunts (fairies) tell her she cant be with the boy she loves, because she has to marry a prince after finding out she is royalty, she like Ariel gets upset but decides to sacrifice love, for her kingdom (alliances, war and what not), literal queen, but in the end it works out in her favor, unlike Pocahontas..tears.. And Aurora doesn't necessarily say she wants love, in the song I wonder, she wonders why everybody has a partner and if that will ever be in her future. Then we hear about her frustrations, she is tired of being treated like a kid, and she is kinda over her sheltered life, then more of her personality is displayed she is smart, flirty, fun and a hopeless dreamer like Belle. And she is low key fearless, walking over a darn cliff like it's a corridor. She talks about someone in her dreams, literally the only other person she ever "knows" and who to her knowledge isn't even real, which shows the extent of her loneliness. In my opinion it wouldn't be healthy for her if she didn't desire someone in that situation. Rapunzel was different firstly she was 18, and didn't really know about love or men apart from what mother Gothel told her which was "evil! stay away!" So in that context it makes sense why a partner isn't her goal. When she meets Phillip she is like stranger danger I'm out, even though he is good looking and well mannered she is still like not gonna happen, until he woos her with his serenade like can we blame her? If you think about it, if she didn't let her guard down and wasn't open to love, she would have never had a true love to awake her. And the aurora character in the Sleeping Beauty source material barely has any "screen time" apart from when she is christened then cursed, grows up pricks herself and then wakes up. With that in mind Disney had little to work with compared to other fairytale heroines, even so I think they did a pretty decent job. And I hope you didn't misunderstand me about Pocahontas, love that movie and will defend it forever. Yes it might not be everybody's taste but thats a different topic.
@@WondrousJoJo I think that part of the reason that Aurora didn't have as much of a personality is because the fairies are the actual protagonists of the film.
@ThePrincessCH Good point! If that is the case, my new issue now would be that she was marketed and chosen to be part of the princess line, even though Eilonwy (The Black Cauldron) and Kida (Atlantis: The Lost Empire) were not chosen and they both had wayy more personality and involvement with their movies. They were also fellow box office bombs, just like Sleeping Beauty was.
@@WondrousJoJo I've heard that "The Black Cauldron" was deemed too scary, I'm not sure about "Atlantis."
You did a video about Disney’s aversion to romance while dressed like you’re going to a Misfits or Paradise Lost concert? You have my respect, friend.
I think the whole thing about the female leads who are POC and romance-less isn't (quite) intentional. I think it is mainly just because Disney has ditched making any new white characters in favor of all POC characters in the name of inclusion (which I am not against, let me be clear. I am perfectly fine with all these new characters being various races and ethnicities other than white and western/northern European, even if I do wish we could be inclusive of people of all races without excluding white people/ditching making white characters completely, but I digress). At the same time, they are trying to be ultra-modern feminist by ditching romance completely, regardless of who the character is or what story is being told. No romance at all. And these two things just happen to be happening at the same time. I do believe both trends are intentional, but the possible message of "romance is only for the white people" that it gives off... that part probably is just an unfortunate coincidence (I hope).
I do realize that disney is trying to make all of these progressive changes simultaneously. I believe that they must be careful with that because it can come off as lazy by just shoving everything into one character. For example, making a character who is a POC, maybe lgbt, has a disability, AND has no romance....that is super overkill, and it comes off to me as disingenuous. These lazy types of designs, from my experience, are typically done with POC characters. This is why I was suspicious of the POC female + Ace trend. But maybe it truly is coincidental (and then again... maybe it isn't).
I think calling it a “crusade,” and that they’re “avoiding romance at all costs,” is entirely inaccurate. (With the exception of certain actors’ tasteless comments.) Rather Disney is at the end of another phase. Disney has had several phases, including the fairytale retellings of the early years and the renaissance, the action comedies of the early 2000s, the family/friendship stories in the 2020s. It’s a good thing that Disney implements variety in their catalogue, because if it remained a one-trick pony that only told love stories, that’d wouldn’t be good for them! But I also noticed that they stay with specific themes for too long, often repeating them across multiple movies; I’ve seen plenty of gripes about how the “family trauma” themes have been overused at this point.
As an arospec I think keeping the starboy love interest for Wish would’ve been a great way to shake things up, and I’m very interested in the concept, but I think the reason they didn’t was because the star has a more marketable design. And no, I don’t think a story lacking romance automatically makes the leads aro. The directors/writers/artists etc should be free to make a purely adventure, comedy, or family film if they want to. (But you can also do both like you said! Many of the renaissance princesses have a unique goal to achieve, but also fall in love on the way!) Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if fellow arospecs claimed Raya or Merida for that reason, it’s barren out here
I think the "I don't need no man to be happy" stereotype is really something more prevalent with Gen Z (because their generation of women grew up with this idea echoed more than their minds than the rest of us), and unfortunately, the Disney company seems to be catering to ONLY this generation instead of all the generations like in decades past. At least, that's what it looks like me because they honestly look down on it. 🤷🏽♀️
I also agree with all your points about exploring the different perspectives/stages of love. As someone who waited 10 years to marry the right person, I truly understand the pain and doubt that came with that before finding, dating, and marrying my husband three years ago. I also personally have always loved all the romance demonstrated in Disney films, and while I think most of the modern Disney movies are fine by themselves, I honestly miss the romance. 😢 #bringitbackDisney
Agreed! I think the "independent and fierce" female troupe gets worse with every generation. When I was a kid, Destiny's Child's "Independent Women" was a huge hit in 1999/2000. Around that time, Disney had movies like Mulan, Enchanted (Giselle), and Atlantis (Princess Kida). While these women were definitely more independent and modernized, there was still romance, and male characters were still competent and strong. These days...the men are a joke, and the women are like men. I'm fine with Disney exploring other types of womanhood or life paths, but when ALL of them are the same...we have a problem. I miss the romance, too. I wonder what actual gen z people think about this trend...
Also, congrats on finding the right one. 😊
@WondrousJoJo : Thank you, and I agree! It is so sad to see men so misrepresented in film now because I've always enjoyed a good, traditionally masculine male character. I honestly don't understand how all these young male actors can be okay with it all and just take it. 😵💫
Raya and the Last Dragon is totally an enemies to lovers lesbian story. The execs can say whatever they want, they can't convince me otherwise.
I never made it all the way through that movie. But from what I recall... I can actually totally see what you mean.
Mulan and Shang’s romance was one of my favorites as a kid, and she definitely wasn’t some ‘submissive girl needing a man’! I didn’t watch the live action simply because they cut Shang out of it. SMH
Yup. That, and Mushu was taken out. Unless an overwhelming amount of my subscribers wanted me to review it, I refuse to watch it, too.
I don't get it. For how many decades was there a romantic element to every Disney movie. Now, for (according to the video) the last 10 years they try to do something different and it's a problem ?? The vast majority of all media we consume today still has romantic elements to it. Tbh it's kind of overdone. If the story is amazing without it, why feel the need to add it?
But that's part of the issue. Several of the movies have not been amazing. I'm not saying a love interest would save it because I don't necessarily believe that. But Disney veering off of their well-known path has not really been working all that well for them. Some are successful, yes... but others that have been going in this new direction aren't. They make these "princess" movies with no prince/male character and wonder why they lose some of their audience. Not all girls want to see romance, but many do. Boys like to see a prominent male character being cool, which is why Disney created Flynn for Tangled. They were doing well until they started this trend of loveless stories. Frozen was the very last of its kind to have romance, and it was wildly successful. Moana did fine. Raya flopped. Encanto did fine. Wish SUPER flopped. All I know is, when Disney follows their iconic formula with maybe just slight tweaks, the films did well, like Tangled, Frozen, and Frozen 2. I want to see Disney experiment and make a film just like the ones that we're all used to and see just how well it does. I'm willing to BET it would be a success and people would praise the 'return of Disney'. I like some of their non-"princess" stuff like Wreck-It-Ralph, but their bread & butter have always been the princess movies/merchandise.
Hhhhmmmm I see what you mean about no romance for POC. Where the love for us? Self love, family love and all that is nice but we been getting that more than romance.
3:00 this! I noticed this as well. It's quite sad. Hey, if you're interested, I just released the 1st book of my trilogy named: the Princess Eleanor Chronicles. The 1st book is "Chrysanthemum Palace." It follows a Black California teen girl named Eleanor Aurora Aladesanni-Yamamoto, who after receiving a mysterious letter from an unlikely figure from her past, discovers she's a princess! The story follows her journey to the crown, as she experiences ROMANCE, drama, culture shock, and betrayal all while navigating her Senior year of high school and trying to fit in high society as a new royal. It's available worldwide internationally in print and digital. If you love K-Drama-worthy romances filled with fantasy, adventure, and drama, check it out!
this video is so cathartic 😌 i feel vindicated
i think it's that these modern writers, trying to chase the slogans of social media, don't understand how to write romances or friendships or bonds. The characters now seem to need to be more self-centered and make their success at the demise of someone else.
Mulan 1998, arguably the most fight-y, smart-y, and competent princess makes her decisions based on love. And it's not a romantic love (she gets Lee Shang in the end, but he's the cherry on top to be honest). It's the decision to go into the army to protect her father, a familial love. It's the decision to go into the imperial city to warn about the Huns in order to protect her friends, a fraternal love
arguably also her country, but the friends first and nationality second.
by the end, Shang -- in this very heavily patriarchal system -- views Mulan as his equal and respects her as such. He chases HER. Also, i still find it cute that his feelings for her make him go from composed to weak in the knees when she's around 💕
The character is in a world defined by men and doesn't let that stop her. And it's her femininity, and the fan being a symbol of that femininity, that helps her to take down the villain.
i really like this movie...
I miss Disney romance. As you said why can't a heroine or princess have her guy and goals? It makes me wonder the reason behind the agenda and it's long term effects on the culture as animated films are a huge part of children's lives. So it makes me ponder the long term effects of this agenda.
Also I personally feel like Disney is devaluing it's brand when it's actresses say such horrible and unenlightened things about romantic leads and romance in Disney films.
As you also said Jojo it does a disservice to our young boys by disrespecting and disregarding men.
All in all I'd love to see a Disney movie that isn't trying to check a box or push an agenda but rather do great storytelling and with that comes q romance. That's why I don't bother with Disney remakes or most new Disney films I'd rather rewatch the ones that had romance and that magic you were talking about.
There is no agenda. It’s another era of Disney plotlines that’s starting to phase out
@@kordeliiius9821 I disagree there is a calculated choice to leave romance out of newer Disney movies and it's done with some agenda in mind.
Now, now, don't hate on Sleeping Beauty too much. (Nah, you're good, I understand the criticism. 😀). Honestly, I miss the good old romantic Disney movies. Sometimes, I just rewatch older Disney Princess movies just for the fun of it. Hell, I rewatched Snow White and got a laugh out of Snow White committing B&E. 😂 I do definitely understand where you are coming from, and I wish we could have romance again. 😢
I rewatch older Disney movies, too. It's funny that you mentioned laughing during Snow White because the last time I watched it, I found myself laughing too. The movie has a goofy charm to it.
Disney: oh no, we’re woke now, people are gonna expect us to have a gay romance in one of our movies. Welp, I guess we’ll just not have any romance at all!
I would say yes Disney meets love interest again nobody's not saying that they have to be a major plot point but give me do we love interest because again most of Disney movies the target audience is women and as we've seen was society when you keep telling women they don't need no man nonsense It kind of puts these girls in the mindset of girl boss and all that does is turn people off from the movies You know what I'm saying I'm not saying every movie needs to but if we're talking about a Disney princess movie or a Disney Princess adjacent movie I would say yes they do need love interest You just can't have these Disney princess movies just not doing the traditional romance Hell we don't even get Disney Prince movies anymore for God's sakes cuz if that's the case make a Disney prince movie where there's a prince but he doesn't fall in love with anybody You know what I'm saying it'll be different if we was getting both sides but we're not even getting that we're getting just straight up Oh Disney princesses or princess adjacent movies they don't need romance that kind of makes the movie a little bit boring or you try to find other ways of love in those movies to the point where you keep relying on everything but traditional romance makes Disney kind of boring especially since most of Disney movies are traditional you need to have some kind of traditional standard of romance nobody saying that they have to be a major plot point but you need romance you know I'm saying just like we need more Disney princes as well
I absolutely agree that we need more men/male-centered movies. OG Aladdin was awesome! It had a male main character who was the title lead and also had a strong, intelligent, and interesting princess character who was the love interest.
Treasure Planet was a good movie, too. Jim Hawkins didn't have a love interest and is probably the only Disney male main character who doesn't (I don't even recall him showing any desire for romance at all). Tarzan is cool, and his movie had Jane. From what I recall, Jane moreso fell in love with him, but the love was a small part of the story. And then there's Hercules. I thought Hercules was great. He grew as a person and learned. He has flaws. He's very relatable. And he had a wonderful woman by his side, Meg. There was also Brother Bear... but I honestly don't remember it that well. I just know the main characters were male. For whatever reason, Disney doesn't really promote that movie or have ongoing merchandise. And finally (all that I can recall right now), there's Kuzco from Emperor's New Groove. He changes and grows as a person, but there is no love interest (until the animated series).
It's way past time for a new Disney "Prince" film. Disney just kind of forgot about male stories. I mean... there was Strange World, I guess... but... ughh. I did like the element of breaking away from generational tradition and finding your own path. Other than that... men/boys need better. I want a Frozen-level movie, but with male leads. That's probably asking for a lot. I want to see romance further explored from the male perspective without making it toxic or seeing the woman as a prize to be won or a conquest. That's kind of what made Tangled's romance good. Flynn didn't care about her looks in the beginning, nor was he trying to get with her from the beginning. They both fell in love organically over time.
But yes, all in all, Disney needs to bring romance back. They also need to start taking more risks and stop playing it overly safely with their storylines and twists.
Love the outfit 💅👑😎
Thank you!
Absolutely disney is anti-romance rn, i feel like its a trend that goes hand in hand with the feminism movement of the late 2010s and early 2020s, which is fine! I feel like theyll go back to producing romance movies at some point and its normal for the company to take breaks on romantic movies. I mean before the renaissance there was only 3 official princesses i think, thus less primarily romance based movies. And also I absolutely love so many movies from the revival era, particularly Frozen 2 (i know its a mess, but still lol) and Encanto. So with culture shifts and time I think the romance movies will return. Great video 😊
Thank you!
And yeah, I do believe Disney will eventually get back to it. But hey, in the meantime, they're only hurting their own pockets. 😄
So Disney's leading ladies are becoming asexual? 🤔
Not necessarily asexual, more like aromantic. I have no idea what the girls like or want to do in their bedrooms. However, Disney does suggest they're possibly aromantic when you compare them to the stories of the former leading ladies throughout Disney animation history.
If that’s the case I ain’t composing ♠️
Getting theological here it's giving...
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who *FORBID MARRIAGE* and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3
Why must the main character fall in love with a person of the opposite gender.
Strange World had a gay couple, in which one of the 2 was the main character.
Brave was supposed to have romance, Merida was gonna have a crush on that guy no one understood