Definitely depends on the interpretation, lots of music uses quick playing as maybe a type of feeling they're trying to convey, be it tension, anxiety, or even sometimes serenity. Once again, depends on the interpretation
@@benjaminlemoine11Reread the comment. If it's your ONLY tool. We don't need a defense argument about fast playing in general. You entirely missed the point...
@@foljs5858 See now, I think I get what you're saying, like in my mind, Nirvana is much better music than all of these. However that's the subjective part of music and thank god for it or else we'd all be listening to some "standard noise"
I'm sure I remember Henson saying what makes a great guitar solo are solos that people sing along to. I wouldn't be able to sing his music. Imagine trying to sing the opening of playing god haha. I've never tried a natural harmonic before with my voice.
The two things - showing off and being musical - aren't mutually exclusive. But it's a moot point because of the extreme subjectivity of evaluating art. The silly things is to argue that a bass is only "meant for" a certain type of playing. That's like arguing that painters should only employ realism or dancers should only dance ballet. An artist is free to make the art they want. The great thing about art is that you don't have to experience it if you don't want to.
@@sciencedaemon Well, you're the one taking it to another place 😊, but it's clear that it's an artist who says they're an artist. There's a difference between evaluating what a thing _is_ and evaluating the _quality_ of a thing. Evaluation is required with _any_ assessment, but it doesn't change the fact that art is there for you to enjoy or not. No one is forcing anyone to experience art, much less assess it, much less define who is/isn't an artist. Generally, the people who complain about things like what an instrument should/shouldn't play are less interested in enjoying art than they are in imposing their view of the world on others.
Technique it’s not necessarily equate to playing fast. Look at a player like Nick Campbell. His technique moves me in the way he applies it to laying down such an infectious groove with such tasteful dynamic fills. Mutes, accents, slides, duration, ability to play all over the fretboard. That’s all technique to me.
@@kellyg2826 The point of contention here is when your music is a mere vehicle for you to showcase your technical proficiency. Many modern players do music like they're painting by numbers with some following the exact recipe. A good example of that happened in a soloing contest some years ago. After looking at a few entries, you could accurately predict how the solo would go since all of them had the same stuff and most players even had the same guitar tone as well.
The lead guitarist in my band was great at playing fast solos with lots of notes. We were recording a song once and I told him I wanted a solo with fewer notes....long notes, not speed. So he picked one note and bent up to it....then played an entire 8 bar melodic solo just bending up to that one note... until the very last note where he finally resolved on a second note. It became my favorite solo he ever recorded. Pure feeling.
Playing fast and being melodic (driving the song) is very fine on my book. One of the examples is Geddy Lee. Playing fast for the sake of technique itself is indeed boring.
Playing fast and technical is like sprinkles. Great in small doses or as a small part of something else. But really unsatisfying on its own. If you have sprinkles on top of your ice cream or cupcake it’s amazing. But nobody wants to eat a cup of sprinkles. Fast technical stuff is a great addition to a solid song. But it’s not a replacement for a solid song.
I agree with the ‘toolbox argument.’ However, in most of the case, the problem isn’t playing fast; it’s playing on one instrument what would benefit from being played by several
Playing fast is technically impressive, but for me becomes aurally uninteresting very quickly. Most of these can be stripped away to a very average performance as you remove simple things like percussive fills and aggressive strumming. Like you said this has become prevalent in solo performances where players are trying to cover multiple pieces of the band and I think they can sound quite good. Playing fast can make mundane lines sound better than they are, but I think it still needs to have a rhythmically interesting flow. Running scales in full 32nd notes is the worst offense and I think some people associate all fast playing with this.
The different instruments point is it for me. I couldn't put it into words when I was younger, but before I was a musician and just a fan of music, the one thing I never liked about these soloists is that I think their compositions would be more enjoyable with different parts written and intended for a small ensemble, a "proper song" to oversimplify what I'm trying to say. Drums, bass, and either keyboard or second guitar with maybe vocals. Spread the rhythms and melodies across different instruments, trust your band members and keep your guitar parts as simple/complex as the rest. They're very impressive musicians and skilled composers, there are certain applications for this type of playing, particularly on TH-cam, and there's a big following for this type of thing so I get the appeal, but that's my only critique for my taste.
For me technical is ok. But if everything is technical then nothing really is technical like the song needs its climax and sometimes when most part of the song are so technical it lacks that.
What's lost in conversations around this stuff...is that these talented guys are pushing their skill for their own enjoyment,not to be a pop/rock star. it isn't meant as music for people in the middle. Like body builders are admired by other body builders...so is guitar/bass/drum techniques that are "extreme" its boring...to me,isn't an argument, its ok to hate it,but it's easy to just not watch. I personally find it all dull,and uninteresting. But im into lyrics and story so my subjective view doesn't mean I'm right. Personally I'd rather Caged and camp fire sing along with mates than slap percussion acoustic or extreme shred,as it does start to sound silly. But in the same breath,being good at something doesn't equate to being free from criticism
I think it’s weird even to hate such techniques. Certainly the music created by them can be dull or not your jam, but hating techniques is like hating the concept of screwdrivers. It’s merely a tool. Some things built with them are ugly or boring, others are stunning. You’re right that people should like what they like though. The great thing about music is there are as many ways to play it as there are people to play it
I think the problem lies within those who make everything they do about playing the most technically difficult and fastest performances. That's really one-dimensional. There is just as much value in using fewer notes, but doing each of them more expressively. Music is intended to stir emotion in the listener. If it's not doing that with lots of notes, then it's going to be boring. If you can do lots of notes in an expressive way, that will be more interesting. I just don't think playing fast and technical for its own sake will be compelling for very long. Edit: I guess Charles agrees with me.
I feel like Polyphia is actually pretty simple music once you notice that it's basically highly ornamented melodic lines over a simple pop chord progression.
I am not in anyway a Polyphia fan, but what you have said doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. It's complicated, in order to simplify it, you need to strip it down.
I just wanted to chime in and say I have only gotten shredding stuck in my head one time ever. That song? Elevated by Charles Berthoud I have never seen someone shred as musically as yourself. It's incredible. Keep it up, man, and thank you for the great commentary in this video. I'm a beginner bassist (inspired to get into it by you and Davie) and I would love to hear more of your thoughts on music like this. Great video idea.
These are probably some of the worst examples of "playing fast sucks" compared to the aimless shredders of the 80's. As much as I like watching these guys in awe, I'm not going to listen to their music in the car. I saw a duet of a Violin and Cello playing "Playing God" which was amazing. It really puts into perspective what's going on in the guitar.
I'm new to bass (Started in the new year). I've been listening to a loooot of music since picking up the instrument. My favourite bassist is Tomohito Aoki. Japanese bass player who did tonne's of session work and played with loads of bands. You could say he was the Japanese Marcus Miller. He was a phenomenal player, finger style, fretless, slap. He drives the song, so musical and so technical with his basslines. He is what I consider a pure bass player. An absolute technician who has the groove in his fingers. Listen to his work with DIMENSION, Four of a Kind, Toshiki Kadomatsu. I can appreciate the technical aspects of new players and the virtuoso playing, takes a lot of skill and practice, its great for demonstrations, but I never find myself moving my shoulders to the music. I've listened to a new track today called E.G Blues by Mezzoforte. It's been on repeat because its so damn funky!
I've spent years back in the '90s playing bass for hardcore and powerviolence bands and at that time in those genre it was more important to play fast than to play with any level of accuracy. Once I figured out how to do a finger gallop at 160bpm, we wrote songs around that chug.
There are lots of ignorant non-musicians who believe that "feel" and "technique" are mutually exclusive. It's not a new thing. Back in the day, around 1970, there were lots of folks who said that Alvin Lee, the guitarist of a band called Ten Years After (watch them in the Woodstock video) played without "feel" because he played fast, even though he mainly played pentatonic blues licks. By today's standards he was a musical simpleton (no insult intended). Personally, I can't play 12 notes per second, like some guitarists, but I can certainly aprreciate guitarists who can.
@@MartijnHoverya hendrix is one of those guys you dont think sounds good when youre an intermediate guitarist, but when you get to the advanced level and try ro play his music, its just like srv or a dimebag solo, it might sound simple but all 3 require heavy dynamics, those guys music cant be played by playing the right note at the right time like 99 percent of guitar music, you have to play the right note at the right time, with the right volume and velocity. Those dynamics of having to not just hit the right note at the right time, but with the right touch basically makes it far harder. Its not like vibrato which can be emulated with some practice, dynamic playing its extremely difficult to emulate but its very rare. Buckethead is also good at dynamics. This kind of stuff separates the advanced from expert guitarists
I like the fast stuff and slow stuff. Totally agree with the comment saying there's no 'right' music. Although this gets challenged a lot, I personally believe that there's no 'right' and 'wrong' technique but rather techniques that work well or don't work and no 'right' way to learn an instrument. Pinky stuck out while playing? Doesn't mean the player cannot use their pinky to fret they can use it just as well and play just as well as someone who has it tucked in (or at least in my opinion). I'd also imagine when victor (or whoever invented) started double thumbing people told him it was the 'wrong' way to slap. Techniques that are 'wrong' but can articulate notes just as well are different and not unequal or inferior. Just my opinion😊
It's really down to how you play fast. There's some guitarists that you can tell play fast just for the sake of playing fast, while there's others that play fast while also being very musical. Then there's some that are musical but too insistent on playing fast, which makes it sound more like the song was meant to be slower and they just want to show off. Polyphia in my opinion is a VERY good example of being fast/technical and also very musical.
if a person only focuses on the fast playing and misses the full composition, i can see how they're "getting bored"...when the fast playing is meant to sit in a larger composition, focusing on a single instrument is a poor perspective from which to approach the composition
Playing fast is the same as playing slow. It's a choice, a preference and a way to express oneself. The implication that one is better than the other is ridiculous. It is insecurity that drives people to to validate themselves by pushing their limitations on others. I NEVER hear or read guitar players telling people they're too slow.
It actually boils down to the fact that the average person not trained to actively listen to music doesnt have the mental capacity to absorb and digest all thats being thrown at them. Also, no instrument will ever have as many uneducated people telling you, the expert, how you "should" play more than the bass.
"Playing God" is an amazing song. I can see where Tim's technical skills on the song could be dismissed as wankery, but IMO his playing does great service to the song.
It all comes down to 3 things: dynamics, dynamics, and dynamics. If I have something important to say, I'm not going to say it so fast that no one can understand it, but if I get excited and talk real fast for a couple moments, then it communicates more emotion.
Not really. It tends to impress those with a poor grasp of music. Usually younger people that have a limited musical palate. It is like thinking fast food is better than a nice home cooked meal. Anybody can get fast food. A good home meal takes time and effort and keeps you healthier.
The biggest cheers I got from performing were always the faster guitar solos. People just love it when you rip some pentatonic triplets halfway through a song, especially when its clean , well practised and short and sweet and sounds just like the original solo. I think fast virtuostic playing is like a ''backflip''. Its super impressive when you do it a couple of times during a performance, but it has diminishing returns(and it depends on the crowd and what genre you're playing too). I think its a very powerful dynamic in music that shouldn't be underestimated.
Speed means nothing if you can't be tasteful with it. IMO, one of the best guitar solos is Adrienne Vandenberg's solo in "Still Of The Night". Just a wicked melody with a quick shred to get to that last high E sustain. Very pleasing to the ears.
Good artists know when to use a tool and when not to. Playing “fast and technical” has its place, but alone and without context is meaningless. You need contrast in art.
Too many guitar players miss the "Music" part. Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, Dynamics, Phrasing, Feel, Groove, Space, Form and Making Art are all more important than playing fast or flashy. Being able to play fast is important but it's not everything.
There are plenty of bands I love that could play circles around me. A weird assumption that I've picked up on lately is that all criticism comes from a place of hatred or inadequacy. But for me at least, it's more about getting people to hold musicians to a higher standard. If they market themselves as creating highly complex music but do not follow through with that, it's fine to point that out.
I'm shit at guitar, I play for fun, every professional makes me look bad. Polyphia in particular are just torturous to listen to. I also get the feeling that polyphia get so much more hate than all the other pinky plonky widdly bands because Tim looks like a royal twat
In general, music connects everyone regardless the technique at all levels. Whether you play it simple, complex, easy, medium, hard, advanced, pro, fast, slow, adding some sugar-spices of harmonies, effects, percussions, and everything else in between, and some who goes deeper in creating a beautiful sound (or an original sound and style) like in the case of Tim Henson (Polyphia), Victor Wooten, Marcin, Ichika Nito, and even you Charles makes us appreciate and love music even more! As a guy who loves playing music (guitar, piano, bass and drums), I sincerely understand how difficult it is to create a beautiful music that touches the hearts of the beautiful people no matter what genre, style or theme it may be. I really do appreciate and respect you all musicians out there and sending some love! Cheers! :)
Great video, Charles. All your comments really sum up my thoughts on fast playing. I think what makes the examples you listed and yourself so good is the musicality in your fast playing. You can all play great no matter what, bpm, and still make the music interesting and complex.Your music and Victor wootens really inspire me as a bass player, i really appreciate all the effort u put into your content. So, thank you for making such awesome music and inspiring so many people.
Well, it's the egocentric world view all over again with the sun rotating around them once a year. If you don't like many notes in a given time frame ... don't listen? Search for the stop button? If you want to listen to what you want to listen to why can't you show the same courtesy to others. Do to others, right? And what about placing it in a matrix with good fast playing, good slow playing, bad fast playing and bad slow playing? No matter what side you're on ... just don't work yourself into a frenzy? If the only thing you ever attempt is slow playing you lack in dynamics. Yeah, and the other way around. If it sounds good it is ... good?
Very well said! Thank you for writing this so I don't have to. The amount of gatekeeper snark trolls in this comment section is amazing. Who would have imagined that the world's greatest living collection of music "experts" would assemble in the comment section of this video. How lucky we all are to benefit from their wisdom...
I play everything on a classical with nylon strings . Loved that bassist expanding his art. Marcin did things i never thought of. Bought my classical and now i discover fingerstyle. Guess i have to head on down to the guitar shop
That second composition was fire… anyone who says it’s bad is just jelly they can’t play that way… did it make me cry? No… but come on… dude was shredding and it was melodic and clean.
Having been looking for a bass player I have found that solo technical ability does not necessarily translate to a band situation. The player I now have heard one of the tracks and said “that just needs to be kept simple”. He gets it. There’s plenty of opportunity for him to shine, it’s just that some songs need one note
The issue is that this music isn't for people that don't understand (Polyphia managed to break this barrier in part because of the easy catchy chord progressions, hiphop sound etc) it because they can't comprehend what is going on. It's just a mess of sounds and tones because their brains aren't used to deciphering what is going on. A random person wouldnt know what to do with a very easy physics equation, while someone that studied it would see whats going on in a heartbeat. The rando can't apriciate the beauty of the equation, while do student can. Ofc that music is much more common in most peoples lives so it IS easier to start breaking that barrier even for non-musicians, but it's still there for the vast majority of the population. Its the reason why "professionals react" videos became popular, it lets you appreciate something fully when explained by an expert. On the other hand, when musicians that CAN tell whats going on say its "masturbating", it's nothing but pure jealousy.
I'm primarily classically trained on cello (though am decent on percussion, double bass, and learning electric), and I don't understand how people say that playing fast is bad. So much incredible music is fast, as well as slow. One example I adore is the Bach Cello suite #1 in G. The contrast between the legato of the prelude and the spicato (like staccato but bouncier) of the Boureés is incredible, especially moving from the Sarabande to the 1st Boureé. Dig the videos man!
Totally agree, tbh the thing that sticks out to me about you and other virtuosic musicians I look up to is the ability to use those chops in a super musical way, something I’m constantly working to figure out and hopefully convey in the solo bass album I’m currently working on
2:00 but he literally does always... its kind of his style and he owns and wears his ego proudly. Ego death was the most ironic thing i've ever heard/seen. Technically impressive, but not my cup of joe
Only in music is technical excellence criticized. No one says an Olympic fencer shouldn't have an explosive lunge, or that Michelangelo's Pieta is "too technical". Imagine criticizing Muhammad Ali for for his head movement. Maybe we should put a speed limit on the 100 metre dash, and strip gothic cathedrals of their ornaments and stained glass while we're at it.
People who have nothing to say, musically. Who experienced nothing in their life. Who heard no music other than other shredders and what's popular at the moment.
EVERY artist that possesses great skill and technical ability will have the struggle between pushing their limits and remaining relatable to others. Think how Marty McFly goes from rocking the house to completely alienating everyone at the dance in the movie Back to the Future. He goes from playing well, to rocking out, to complete nonsense.
Bonafide Beatle fan here. Music is a totally subjective thing. If you really like something you don't have to justify yourself in any way. In my opinion fast in a solo or slow is matter of balance between musicality, serving the song or piece. I also think that doing a different thing for different songs is the most important thing in music. And you will agree the Beatles are masters at this. Every Harrison solo is a unique piece, every Ringo beat is a unique creature. My 2 cents
You're way too sensible and rational (and correct) for this comments section. There are plenty of folks here who would be more than happy to tell you everything that sucks... Just ask them! They're all "experts".
I can certainly respect the incredible technical proficiency of all of these guys. For me though there comes a point where it moves out of the realm of musical performance and into the realm of circus act where you're just waiting for the next amazing trick. Watching it for a while I start to absolutely crave an open C chord.
negative comments from people who claim victor or tim suck are just lost causes. If they don't like it, don't listen and move on. Not everyone can hear what the artist is playing. That's fine, but being a jerk shows more about the commentor than the musician. I love to hear musicians express themselves. It doesn't have to be fast or even virtuoso.
If some says they don't LIKE them, fine. That's understandable. But if someone says they don't (at the very least) RESPECT them, their opinion loses all credibility in my mind. Great is great, whether it's to my individual taste or not. An inability or unwillingness to see that only reflects negatively on the one making the judgment.
Had a narcissistic idiot once in my church choir who thought he was Jaco Pastorius. Didnt want to hurt his feelings but it became so irritating that the old ladies told him off. Never showed his face again. He did have a sound theory of music but would put down every musician he came across and give our singers a tough time. Thankfully hes Trudeau's problem now.
I don’t know if it’s just the samples you chose to feature, but there seems to be a commonality among those players that can get old (for my personal taste) quickly. I’m not suggesting that what they’re playing is uninteresting in any way. But there’s a certain style or feel to many of those players which, if you’re not into that style, it can indeed get boring. HOWEVER, this can be said of ANY style of music, fast, slow, or anything in between. The bottom line is that the negative comments may have more to do with the commenter’s preference of music than it does with the players themselves. I personally enjoy seeing someone with exceptional talent play, and I can recognize and appreciate their skill even IF I don’t care for their music. I think failing to at least acknowledge the skill of technically proficient players (even where one doesn’t like the music) stems from a bit of envy or pride.
Playing fast can suck. If you take something that sucks when played slowly and speed it up, it will usually just suck faster. The bass does have a pretty necessary role within a band, which is extremely hard to fill while also shredding. That's why a guy like Victor Wooten sometimes has a second bass player to fill the traditional bass role while he's soloing. There's also an issue of audience sophistication, for want of a better word. John Coltrane sometimes sounds like just a bunch of fast finger-twiddling to me because I don't understand what he's doing. I can't even hear the notes. But that's on me, not him.
4:06 Bruh, that song would be completely different with a guitar. Also, in jazz, and probably many other genres, basses can do a lot more than play a boring supporting line. Who the heck even decides what an instrument was "meant to do"?
This is not an easy question. Many people find many notes in a short space of time nervous and overwhelming. On the one hand, it has to do with the musicality and education of the listener. On the other hand, speed can take time to put together a big picture, as you hear with Bach and other classical composers. In the case of guitar genius Allan Holdsworth, speed coupled with a unique musicality is what makes him the monster or genius that he is. For me, his millions of notes are pure blessing and happiness, whereas I find Steve Vai's music boring, much of it based on pentatonic, blue and rock that is endlessly embellished and ornamented.
My issue with some of these alternative playing styles is that the tone and timbre really suffer. A tapped note isn’t as rich as a plucked note. And tapping on the body of a guitar doesn’t have the same depth as a drum or even a cajon. These styles certainly have their place in a solo or TH-cam clip. I regularly watch and enjoy these videos on TH-cam. But for me it doesn’t really hold up to extended or repeat listening.
Hej!, would you consider the idea of making a video about 'soloing' on a base on the low octaves instead of the high ones? Thanks for all of the amazing content, here and on your channel!
Context is everything. I’ve seen some covers by Marcin I absolutely adored, others I thought he was destroying the song’s spirit. I find overplaying a more suitable term for what I see from virtuosos.
I don't really have a problem with playing incredibly fast, but I do think it generally doesn't sound good on acoustic guitar because most acoustic guitars are just recorded very poorly. The strings are incredibly thin, and sound thin. Not to mention most recordings of acoustic virtuosity are clearly done on brand new strings, which haven't been broken in and consequently sound way too bright for my taste. And I hate, hate, HAAAAAAAATE when acoustic players spend half their time slapping on the instrument. I'm not sure who told this new generation of players that bad drumming equals good guitar playing, but good Lord I wish they would stop.
If you like technical playing, solely for the sake of showing off one’s skill, there’s nothing wrong with that. If you don’t care about that sort of thing, that’s also totally valid. Like what you like, leave alone what you don’t. Simple as that.
I think playing fast can be interesting and also a good challenge for yourself but speed and virtuosity are far from the only interesting aspects of music. On second thought. I would love to see a collaboration between Charles, Ichika, Marcin and Jacob Collier. The resulting music would be amazingly beautiful and moving while also being an absolute vibe.
Fast can be boring if it is boring and slow stuff with ornaments also can be very boring. A fast perpetual motion piece could be so incredible and inspirational. Music is diverse. Playing is playing, so play, how you like. If you, as a player, then criticise other players you are the type of musician that other musicians do not want to play with anymore or hear anything further you have to say. Because of criticism, others are less free to play as they will. I realize that nothing is immune to criticism, but this is music, so encouragement is preferred. Otherwise good musicians can quit music. Who wants a world with less music.
I find this kind of discussion pointless, if I find a type of music boring, I’m not going to be convinced into liking it. But just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad
It's easy to forget that , when Wooten first got wider attention with the Flecktones 'Sinister Minister", it was musical and innovative and nobody knew what he was doing...
The whole "It's just guitar masturbation" argument seems to entirely stem from either jealousy at never being able to achieve that level themselves, or hurt because their personal favourite musicians are being technically and virtuosically outmatched. As others have said, not liking shreddy music is totally fine and understandable. But saying that someone like Tim Henson for example is a talentless shredder compared to say, Jimi Hendrix or David Gilmore is straight up boomer-guitarist delusion, no two ways about it.
A criticism can be positive or negative; it can also be constructive or destructive; with humility to help progress or with pride to belittle. We must not let ourselves be touched by destructive or demeaning criticism. Saying "I don't like it" is acceptable; saying "what you're doing sucks" is unacceptable if we don't give advice on how to progress. Humility, kindness, encouragement and love for one's neighbor: whether in any field, are the key words of propriety and the signs of a well-mannered person.
There's no such thing as constructive criticism, since it's up to the recipient to determine how criticism is received. More times than not, people confuse constructive criticism with praise.
@@leastselfawarepotassium Then it's up to you to determine how useful the advice afterwards is instead of just stopping at the part you didn't like and disregarding everything. You don't get to choose how good your audience's communication skills are and demanding such thing from them because you're easily offended is absurd.
I always liked a bit of both, slow/medium carchy bass playing with maybe a fast or upfront solo 3/4 into the song. Level 42 did it in their early stuff, e.g. Hot Water, people, living it up (live) true believers etc. For me the song as well as the musicianship structuring the song without playing a zillion notes a nano second (unless you are thrash metal )was just as important.
If the music works and every note counts that’s all that is needed, playing fast for the sake of playing fast when its not needed will generally get you the sack
Wanted to note at 6:00 (ish) when you say that bass can't really do as well as other instruments, this is only true of electric bass. Upright bass (which "bass guitar") derived from can sustain and makes up for a lot of the weaknesses of electric.
The fast players i enjoy listening to have the same thing in common with the less technical players i enjoy - they all have a great sense of melody in their playing. That’s all that counts really imho whether or not it’s fast
Fast or slow the importance is if there is a music idea behind(you know if you can hear how cohesive ecc) it’s fine. Who says fast is better or worse and who says slow if better or worse.
It comes down to taste and what a piece requires of the player but there will always be people that have to play every note on the fingerboard for every lead just because they can. Sadly the non players are usually more impressed with bullshittery than something that penetrates musically. It's been that way since the days of shred.
I'm mid 50s, so this new guitar/ bass playing stuff ain't my thing at all. I was quick in my 20's but not like today's fast players. I respect their skills as I know it takes a long time to get that good. Just ain't my thing.
Playing fast is a tool. If it is your only tool, then it can become boring very fast.
Very well said
Definitely depends on the interpretation, lots of music uses quick playing as maybe a type of feeling they're trying to convey, be it tension, anxiety, or even sometimes serenity. Once again, depends on the interpretation
Also, if it's your only tool, chances are, you are also a tool.
@@benjaminlemoine11Reread the comment. If it's your ONLY tool. We don't need a defense argument about fast playing in general. You entirely missed the point...
@@dogmosatchmo hence, the band's name
Saying you find these boring is perfectly fine but saying those guys suck is very egregious
Well, musically, they suck.
@foljs5858 musically, they are complex. Big difference
@@foljs5858 See now, I think I get what you're saying, like in my mind, Nirvana is much better music than all of these. However that's the subjective part of music and thank god for it or else we'd all be listening to some "standard noise"
Nah, they aren't being musical (enough). It is all technique over musical expression. Very mechanical.
@@sciencedaemon how many musical is musical enough? that line is different for every human on earth
Play some fast and some slow.
Play some loud and some quiet.
Play some high and some low.
Dynamics are everything.
No, play as fast and loud as possible. Be Archspire 🤣
💯🤘
I'm sure I remember Henson saying what makes a great guitar solo are solos that people sing along to. I wouldn't be able to sing his music. Imagine trying to sing the opening of playing god haha. I've never tried a natural harmonic before with my voice.
Don't forget to not play sometimes.
The two things - showing off and being musical - aren't mutually exclusive. But it's a moot point because of the extreme subjectivity of evaluating art. The silly things is to argue that a bass is only "meant for" a certain type of playing. That's like arguing that painters should only employ realism or dancers should only dance ballet.
An artist is free to make the art they want. The great thing about art is that you don't have to experience it if you don't want to.
Who says who is an artist becomes the question then. You have just taken it to another place where evaluation is required.
@@sciencedaemon Well, you're the one taking it to another place 😊, but it's clear that it's an artist who says they're an artist. There's a difference between evaluating what a thing _is_ and evaluating the _quality_ of a thing. Evaluation is required with _any_ assessment, but it doesn't change the fact that art is there for you to enjoy or not. No one is forcing anyone to experience art, much less assess it, much less define who is/isn't an artist.
Generally, the people who complain about things like what an instrument should/shouldn't play are less interested in enjoying art than they are in imposing their view of the world on others.
@@BassByTheBay yeah, a place of intelligence over knee-jerk reactions.
@@sciencedaemon Based on the glibness of your remarks, you seem like the one with knee-jerk reactions.
@@BassByTheBay it's called honesty, you should try it.
"I am impressed by technique, but technique doesn't move me." - Gavin Harrison.
Perfect
This is my view in a nutshell. I usually say it something like, virtuosity can be amazing, but virtuosity alone is only interesting for a few minutes.
Agreed. And it would be a _very_ weak argument to say that Gavin Harrison is jealous of fast players. =D
Technique it’s not necessarily equate to playing fast. Look at a player like Nick Campbell. His technique moves me in the way he applies it to laying down such an infectious groove with such tasteful dynamic fills. Mutes, accents, slides, duration, ability to play all over the fretboard. That’s all technique to me.
@@kellyg2826 The point of contention here is when your music is a mere vehicle for you to showcase your technical proficiency. Many modern players do music like they're painting by numbers with some following the exact recipe. A good example of that happened in a soloing contest some years ago. After looking at a few entries, you could accurately predict how the solo would go since all of them had the same stuff and most players even had the same guitar tone as well.
The lead guitarist in my band was great at playing fast solos with lots of notes. We were recording a song once and I told him I wanted a solo with fewer notes....long notes, not speed. So he picked one note and bent up to it....then played an entire 8 bar melodic solo just bending up to that one note... until the very last note where he finally resolved on a second note. It became my favorite solo he ever recorded. Pure feeling.
Is that song with that solo available anywhere
@@NBJmobilestill no answer? 😂
Playing fast and being melodic (driving the song) is very fine on my book. One of the examples is Geddy Lee.
Playing fast for the sake of technique itself is indeed boring.
Agreed
Playing fast and technical is like sprinkles. Great in small doses or as a small part of something else. But really unsatisfying on its own. If you have sprinkles on top of your ice cream or cupcake it’s amazing. But nobody wants to eat a cup of sprinkles.
Fast technical stuff is a great addition to a solid song. But it’s not a replacement for a solid song.
I agree!! Well said.
I agree with the ‘toolbox argument.’ However, in most of the case, the problem isn’t playing fast; it’s playing on one instrument what would benefit from being played by several
I could play guitar pretty fast in my 20s, but now in my 60s I am just happy to play bass slowly 😊
Playing fast is technically impressive, but for me becomes aurally uninteresting very quickly. Most of these can be stripped away to a very average performance as you remove simple things like percussive fills and aggressive strumming. Like you said this has become prevalent in solo performances where players are trying to cover multiple pieces of the band and I think they can sound quite good. Playing fast can make mundane lines sound better than they are, but I think it still needs to have a rhythmically interesting flow. Running scales in full 32nd notes is the worst offense and I think some people associate all fast playing with this.
i lived through the malmsteen years. barely.
Jealous because you can't play like them
@@zumba.c right 🙄
The different instruments point is it for me. I couldn't put it into words when I was younger, but before I was a musician and just a fan of music, the one thing I never liked about these soloists is that I think their compositions would be more enjoyable with different parts written and intended for a small ensemble, a "proper song" to oversimplify what I'm trying to say. Drums, bass, and either keyboard or second guitar with maybe vocals. Spread the rhythms and melodies across different instruments, trust your band members and keep your guitar parts as simple/complex as the rest. They're very impressive musicians and skilled composers, there are certain applications for this type of playing, particularly on TH-cam, and there's a big following for this type of thing so I get the appeal, but that's my only critique for my taste.
For me technical is ok. But if everything is technical then nothing really is technical like the song needs its climax and sometimes when most part of the song are so technical it lacks that.
I appreciate that Charles is able to read comments he disagrees with without using a sarcastic "strawman voice".
Yeah it’s cool I guess to hear these comments read carefully, but most people complaining about this stuff are bots.
What's lost in conversations around this stuff...is that these talented guys are pushing their skill for their own enjoyment,not to be a pop/rock star. it isn't meant as music for people in the middle. Like body builders are admired by other body builders...so is guitar/bass/drum techniques that are "extreme" its boring...to me,isn't an argument, its ok to hate it,but it's easy to just not watch. I personally find it all dull,and uninteresting. But im into lyrics and story so my subjective view doesn't mean I'm right.
Personally I'd rather Caged and camp fire sing along with mates than slap percussion acoustic or extreme shred,as it does start to sound silly. But in the same breath,being good at something doesn't equate to being free from criticism
I think it’s weird even to hate such techniques. Certainly the music created by them can be dull or not your jam, but hating techniques is like hating the concept of screwdrivers. It’s merely a tool. Some things built with them are ugly or boring, others are stunning.
You’re right that people should like what they like though. The great thing about music is there are as many ways to play it as there are people to play it
I think the problem lies within those who make everything they do about playing the most technically difficult and fastest performances. That's really one-dimensional. There is just as much value in using fewer notes, but doing each of them more expressively. Music is intended to stir emotion in the listener. If it's not doing that with lots of notes, then it's going to be boring. If you can do lots of notes in an expressive way, that will be more interesting. I just don't think playing fast and technical for its own sake will be compelling for very long.
Edit: I guess Charles agrees with me.
I feel like Polyphia is actually pretty simple music once you notice that it's basically highly ornamented melodic lines over a simple pop chord progression.
all music is simple if you remove the hard parts
@@xezmakorewarriah but some music has more hard parts to remove than others.
I am not in anyway a Polyphia fan, but what you have said doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. It's complicated, in order to simplify it, you need to strip it down.
Exactly. The rhythm section is far from complex - just a basic 4/4 loop with some staccato notes and little variation.
It doesn't matter how hard or fast it is, it sounds like rubbish. Imagine going on a road trip listening to that rubbish.
Ah, the good ol' days when ppl just said: "This is not my cup of tea" instead of being mean and ignorant.
I just wanted to chime in and say I have only gotten shredding stuck in my head one time ever. That song?
Elevated by Charles Berthoud
I have never seen someone shred as musically as yourself. It's incredible. Keep it up, man, and thank you for the great commentary in this video. I'm a beginner bassist (inspired to get into it by you and Davie) and I would love to hear more of your thoughts on music like this. Great video idea.
These are probably some of the worst examples of "playing fast sucks" compared to the aimless shredders of the 80's. As much as I like watching these guys in awe, I'm not going to listen to their music in the car.
I saw a duet of a Violin and Cello playing "Playing God" which was amazing. It really puts into perspective what's going on in the guitar.
I'm new to bass (Started in the new year). I've been listening to a loooot of music since picking up the instrument. My favourite bassist is Tomohito Aoki. Japanese bass player who did tonne's of session work and played with loads of bands. You could say he was the Japanese Marcus Miller. He was a phenomenal player, finger style, fretless, slap. He drives the song, so musical and so technical with his basslines. He is what I consider a pure bass player. An absolute technician who has the groove in his fingers. Listen to his work with DIMENSION, Four of a Kind, Toshiki Kadomatsu. I can appreciate the technical aspects of new players and the virtuoso playing, takes a lot of skill and practice, its great for demonstrations, but I never find myself moving my shoulders to the music. I've listened to a new track today called E.G Blues by Mezzoforte. It's been on repeat because its so damn funky!
There’s nothing better than playing smooth and melodic before throwing in a lightning fast sprint of notes during an emotional climax or modulation.
I've spent years back in the '90s playing bass for hardcore and powerviolence bands and at that time in those genre it was more important to play fast than to play with any level of accuracy. Once I figured out how to do a finger gallop at 160bpm, we wrote songs around that chug.
There are lots of ignorant non-musicians who believe that "feel" and "technique" are mutually exclusive. It's not a new thing. Back in the day, around 1970, there were lots of folks who said that Alvin Lee, the guitarist of a band called Ten Years After (watch them in the Woodstock video) played without "feel" because he played fast, even though he mainly played pentatonic blues licks. By today's standards he was a musical simpleton (no insult intended). Personally, I can't play 12 notes per second, like some guitarists, but I can certainly aprreciate guitarists who can.
Alvin Lee was the best guitarist at Woodstock.
@@Powermad-bu4em I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Santana played there too,. And Jimi Hendrix. 🙂
@@MartijnHoverya hendrix is one of those guys you dont think sounds good when youre an intermediate guitarist, but when you get to the advanced level and try ro play his music, its just like srv or a dimebag solo, it might sound simple but all 3 require heavy dynamics, those guys music cant be played by playing the right note at the right time like 99 percent of guitar music, you have to play the right note at the right time, with the right volume and velocity. Those dynamics of having to not just hit the right note at the right time, but with the right touch basically makes it far harder. Its not like vibrato which can be emulated with some practice, dynamic playing its extremely difficult to emulate but its very rare. Buckethead is also good at dynamics. This kind of stuff separates the advanced from expert guitarists
@@Powermad-bu4emtl;dr my other comment : hendrix underrated as a technical player.
True. People just get insecure of fast playing whether they’re musicians or not.
I like the fast stuff and slow stuff. Totally agree with the comment saying there's no 'right' music. Although this gets challenged a lot, I personally believe that there's no 'right' and 'wrong' technique but rather techniques that work well or don't work and no 'right' way to learn an instrument. Pinky stuck out while playing? Doesn't mean the player cannot use their pinky to fret they can use it just as well and play just as well as someone who has it tucked in (or at least in my opinion). I'd also imagine when victor (or whoever invented) started double thumbing people told him it was the 'wrong' way to slap. Techniques that are 'wrong' but can articulate notes just as well are different and not unequal or inferior. Just my opinion😊
It's really down to how you play fast.
There's some guitarists that you can tell play fast just for the sake of playing fast, while there's others that play fast while also being very musical.
Then there's some that are musical but too insistent on playing fast, which makes it sound more like the song was meant to be slower and they just want to show off.
Polyphia in my opinion is a VERY good example of being fast/technical and also very musical.
Hi Sacchan
@@hyperplayability6290 Hello kiwiboy
The funny thing is that people will say things like "Herman Li can only play fast", but if you catch his streams, he does ballads.
Speed for speeds sake means nothing. If it doesnt have a groove, and make musical sense, its just a lot of notes in a short time.
if a person only focuses on the fast playing and misses the full composition, i can see how they're "getting bored"...when the fast playing is meant to sit in a larger composition, focusing on a single instrument is a poor perspective from which to approach the composition
Playing fast is the same as playing slow. It's a choice, a preference and a way to express oneself. The implication that one is better than the other is ridiculous. It is insecurity that drives people to to validate themselves by pushing their limitations on others. I NEVER hear or read guitar players telling people they're too slow.
Please do Jason Beckers 'AIR'!!!
👏🏻🥉
It actually boils down to the fact that the average person not trained to actively listen to music doesnt have the mental capacity to absorb and digest all thats being thrown at them.
Also, no instrument will ever have as many uneducated people telling you, the expert, how you "should" play more than the bass.
"Playing God" is an amazing song. I can see where Tim's technical skills on the song could be dismissed as wankery, but IMO his playing does great service to the song.
Agreed. In fact I would use it as exhibit A as evidence that they aren't just master bating with instruments.
It all comes down to 3 things: dynamics, dynamics, and dynamics. If I have something important to say, I'm not going to say it so fast that no one can understand it, but if I get excited and talk real fast for a couple moments, then it communicates more emotion.
Brother, thank you. No one talks about that enough. That's one of the most important things for a musician.
Yep....and melody helps as well.
melody is almost always king
Playing fast and technical is amazing to listen to and very impressive but it’s hard to not appreciate blues on guitar or slow jazzy playing
Not really. It tends to impress those with a poor grasp of music. Usually younger people that have a limited musical palate. It is like thinking fast food is better than a nice home cooked meal. Anybody can get fast food. A good home meal takes time and effort and keeps you healthier.
@@sciencedaemon I can't tell if you're insulting blues and jazz or fast and technical stuff like Tim Henson does
@@AshleyBeby lol I couldn’t either
@@Mintey.0He's obviously talking about Ichika Nito/Tim Henson types.
@@jelqingmybwc I'd believe you but this is also what older people said about Jazz like how it was only likeable by "young hippies with poor taste" etc
The biggest cheers I got from performing were always the faster guitar solos. People just love it when you rip some pentatonic triplets halfway through a song, especially when its clean , well practised and short and sweet and sounds just like the original solo. I think fast virtuostic playing is like a ''backflip''. Its super impressive when you do it a couple of times during a performance, but it has diminishing returns(and it depends on the crowd and what genre you're playing too). I think its a very powerful dynamic in music that shouldn't be underestimated.
Speed means nothing if you can't be tasteful with it. IMO, one of the best guitar solos is Adrienne Vandenberg's solo in "Still Of The Night". Just a wicked melody with a quick shred to get to that last high E sustain. Very pleasing to the ears.
Good artists know when to use a tool and when not to. Playing “fast and technical” has its place, but alone and without context is meaningless. You need contrast in art.
Too many guitar players miss the "Music" part. Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, Dynamics, Phrasing, Feel, Groove, Space, Form and Making Art are all more important than playing fast or flashy. Being able to play fast is important but it's not everything.
Playing is about having fun and if others enjoys your play, it's just a bonus.
The contortionist has some of my favourite guitar solos and they’re super simple but the feeling Cam puts into makes it special
It's definitely a "stop making me look/feel bad about my own limitations on the instrument" kinda mentality
There are plenty of bands I love that could play circles around me. A weird assumption that I've picked up on lately is that all criticism comes from a place of hatred or inadequacy. But for me at least, it's more about getting people to hold musicians to a higher standard. If they market themselves as creating highly complex music but do not follow through with that, it's fine to point that out.
I'm shit at guitar, I play for fun, every professional makes me look bad. Polyphia in particular are just torturous to listen to.
I also get the feeling that polyphia get so much more hate than all the other pinky plonky widdly bands because Tim looks like a royal twat
I picked up a BTBAM Colors tab book a long time ago... I still have trouble trying to play their guitar riffs. It makes me respect them even more.
Well they don’t suck but for someone who likes Peter Green who could say it all in such few notes just does it for me
I prefer virtuosity that serves the song to a song that serves a player's virtuosity if that makes any sense
In general, music connects everyone regardless the technique at all levels. Whether you play it simple, complex, easy, medium, hard, advanced, pro, fast, slow, adding some sugar-spices of harmonies, effects, percussions, and everything else in between, and some who goes deeper in creating a beautiful sound (or an original sound and style) like in the case of Tim Henson (Polyphia), Victor Wooten, Marcin, Ichika Nito, and even you Charles makes us appreciate and love music even more! As a guy who loves playing music (guitar, piano, bass and drums), I sincerely understand how difficult it is to create a beautiful music that touches the hearts of the beautiful people no matter what genre, style or theme it may be.
I really do appreciate and respect you all musicians out there and sending some love! Cheers! :)
Great video, Charles. All your comments really sum up my thoughts on fast playing. I think what makes the examples you listed and yourself so good is the musicality in your fast playing. You can all play great no matter what, bpm, and still make the music interesting and complex.Your music and Victor wootens really inspire me as a bass player, i really appreciate all the effort u put into your content. So, thank you for making such awesome music and inspiring so many people.
people hate the idea that there is such a thing good fast playing and bad fast playing
Well, it's the egocentric world view all over again with the sun rotating around them once a year. If you don't like many notes in a given time frame ... don't listen? Search for the stop button? If you want to listen to what you want to listen to why can't you show the same courtesy to others. Do to others, right? And what about placing it in a matrix with good fast playing, good slow playing, bad fast playing and bad slow playing? No matter what side you're on ... just don't work yourself into a frenzy? If the only thing you ever attempt is slow playing you lack in dynamics. Yeah, and the other way around. If it sounds good it is ... good?
Very well said! Thank you for writing this so I don't have to. The amount of gatekeeper snark trolls in this comment section is amazing.
Who would have imagined that the world's greatest living collection of music "experts" would assemble in the comment section of this video. How lucky we all are to benefit from their wisdom...
I play everything on a classical with nylon strings . Loved that bassist expanding his art.
Marcin did things i never thought of. Bought my classical and now i discover fingerstyle. Guess i have to head on down to the guitar shop
That second composition was fire… anyone who says it’s bad is just jelly they can’t play that way… did it make me cry? No… but come on… dude was shredding and it was melodic and clean.
Having been looking for a bass player I have found that solo technical ability does not necessarily translate to a band situation. The player I now have heard one of the tracks and said “that just needs to be kept simple”. He gets it. There’s plenty of opportunity for him to shine, it’s just that some songs need one note
The issue is that this music isn't for people that don't understand (Polyphia managed to break this barrier in part because of the easy catchy chord progressions, hiphop sound etc) it because they can't comprehend what is going on. It's just a mess of sounds and tones because their brains aren't used to deciphering what is going on. A random person wouldnt know what to do with a very easy physics equation, while someone that studied it would see whats going on in a heartbeat. The rando can't apriciate the beauty of the equation, while do student can. Ofc that music is much more common in most peoples lives so it IS easier to start breaking that barrier even for non-musicians, but it's still there for the vast majority of the population. Its the reason why "professionals react" videos became popular, it lets you appreciate something fully when explained by an expert.
On the other hand, when musicians that CAN tell whats going on say its "masturbating", it's nothing but pure jealousy.
I'm primarily classically trained on cello (though am decent on percussion, double bass, and learning electric), and I don't understand how people say that playing fast is bad. So much incredible music is fast, as well as slow. One example I adore is the Bach Cello suite #1 in G. The contrast between the legato of the prelude and the spicato (like staccato but bouncier) of the Boureés is incredible, especially moving from the Sarabande to the 1st Boureé. Dig the videos man!
Yngwie gets the most hate of all, yet he has some of the most beautiful, musical songs in his catalog....and yes, he can play slow too.
Totally agree, tbh the thing that sticks out to me about you and other virtuosic musicians I look up to is the ability to use those chops in a super musical way, something I’m constantly working to figure out and hopefully convey in the solo bass album I’m currently working on
”Music is the space between the notes.. Some lack of silence here .....
2:00 but he literally does always... its kind of his style and he owns and wears his ego proudly. Ego death was the most ironic thing i've ever heard/seen. Technically impressive, but not my cup of joe
Only in music is technical excellence criticized. No one says an Olympic fencer shouldn't have an explosive lunge, or that Michelangelo's Pieta is "too technical". Imagine criticizing Muhammad Ali for for his head movement. Maybe we should put a speed limit on the 100 metre dash, and strip gothic cathedrals of their ornaments and stained glass while we're at it.
People who have nothing to say, musically. Who experienced nothing in their life. Who heard no music other than other shredders and what's popular at the moment.
EVERY artist that possesses great skill and technical ability will have the struggle between pushing their limits and remaining relatable to others. Think how Marty McFly goes from rocking the house to completely alienating everyone at the dance in the movie Back to the Future. He goes from playing well, to rocking out, to complete nonsense.
If you think and like fast music, you'll want to play fast. That is a good and valid reason to play fast; let it come from the heart.
Bonafide Beatle fan here. Music is a totally subjective thing. If you really like something you don't have to justify yourself in any way. In my opinion fast in a solo or slow is matter of balance between musicality, serving the song or piece. I also think that doing a different thing for different songs is the most important thing in music. And you will agree the Beatles are masters at this. Every Harrison solo is a unique piece, every Ringo beat is a unique creature. My 2 cents
You're way too sensible and rational (and correct) for this comments section. There are plenty of folks here who would be more than happy to tell you everything that sucks... Just ask them! They're all "experts".
I can certainly respect the incredible technical proficiency of all of these guys. For me though there comes a point where it moves out of the realm of musical performance and into the realm of circus act where you're just waiting for the next amazing trick. Watching it for a while I start to absolutely crave an open C chord.
negative comments from people who claim victor or tim suck are just lost causes. If they don't like it, don't listen and move on. Not everyone can hear what the artist is playing. That's fine, but being a jerk shows more about the commentor than the musician. I love to hear musicians express themselves. It doesn't have to be fast or even virtuoso.
If some says they don't LIKE them, fine. That's understandable. But if someone says they don't (at the very least) RESPECT them, their opinion loses all credibility in my mind. Great is great, whether it's to my individual taste or not. An inability or unwillingness to see that only reflects negatively on the one making the judgment.
It sounds good to musicians or to people interested in technique, but it's boring for everyone else who just wants to listen to music.
Had a narcissistic idiot once in my church choir who thought he was Jaco Pastorius. Didnt want to hurt his feelings but it became so irritating that the old ladies told him off. Never showed his face again.
He did have a sound theory of music but would put down every musician he came across and give our singers a tough time. Thankfully hes Trudeau's problem now.
Playing any old notes really fast is boring and irritating; playing well thought-out notes really fast is exciting and awe-inspiring
I am a bass player as well, and I would just like to say that I do agree that if youre playing a bass like an electric, play an electric.
I don’t know if it’s just the samples you chose to feature, but there seems to be a commonality among those players that can get old (for my personal taste) quickly. I’m not suggesting that what they’re playing is uninteresting in any way. But there’s a certain style or feel to many of those players which, if you’re not into that style, it can indeed get boring. HOWEVER, this can be said of ANY style of music, fast, slow, or anything in between. The bottom line is that the negative comments may have more to do with the commenter’s preference of music than it does with the players themselves. I personally enjoy seeing someone with exceptional talent play, and I can recognize and appreciate their skill even IF I don’t care for their music. I think failing to at least acknowledge the skill of technically proficient players (even where one doesn’t like the music) stems from a bit of envy or pride.
Playing fast can suck. If you take something that sucks when played slowly and speed it up, it will usually just suck faster.
The bass does have a pretty necessary role within a band, which is extremely hard to fill while also shredding. That's why a guy like Victor Wooten sometimes has a second bass player to fill the traditional bass role while he's soloing.
There's also an issue of audience sophistication, for want of a better word. John Coltrane sometimes sounds like just a bunch of fast finger-twiddling to me because I don't understand what he's doing. I can't even hear the notes. But that's on me, not him.
4:06
Bruh, that song would be completely different with a guitar. Also, in jazz, and probably many other genres, basses can do a lot more than play a boring supporting line. Who the heck even decides what an instrument was "meant to do"?
This is not an easy question.
Many people find many notes in a short space of time nervous and overwhelming.
On the one hand, it has to do with the musicality and education of the listener.
On the other hand, speed can take time to put together a big picture, as you hear with Bach and other classical composers.
In the case of guitar genius Allan Holdsworth, speed coupled with a unique musicality is what makes him the monster or genius that he is.
For me, his millions of notes are pure blessing and happiness, whereas I find Steve Vai's music boring, much of it based on pentatonic, blue and rock that is endlessly embellished and ornamented.
My issue with some of these alternative playing styles is that the tone and timbre really suffer. A tapped note isn’t as rich as a plucked note. And tapping on the body of a guitar doesn’t have the same depth as a drum or even a cajon. These styles certainly have their place in a solo or TH-cam clip. I regularly watch and enjoy these videos on TH-cam. But for me it doesn’t really hold up to extended or repeat listening.
Hej!, would you consider the idea of making a video about 'soloing' on a base on the low octaves instead of the high ones?
Thanks for all of the amazing content, here and on your channel!
Context is everything. I’ve seen some covers by Marcin I absolutely adored, others I thought he was destroying the song’s spirit. I find overplaying a more suitable term for what I see from virtuosos.
I don't really have a problem with playing incredibly fast, but I do think it generally doesn't sound good on acoustic guitar because most acoustic guitars are just recorded very poorly. The strings are incredibly thin, and sound thin. Not to mention most recordings of acoustic virtuosity are clearly done on brand new strings, which haven't been broken in and consequently sound way too bright for my taste. And I hate, hate, HAAAAAAAATE when acoustic players spend half their time slapping on the instrument. I'm not sure who told this new generation of players that bad drumming equals good guitar playing, but good Lord I wish they would stop.
If you like technical playing, solely for the sake of showing off one’s skill, there’s nothing wrong with that. If you don’t care about that sort of thing, that’s also totally valid. Like what you like, leave alone what you don’t. Simple as that.
“Playing fast is boring” usually means “I tried to play fast, failed, and now making the most cliche pathetic excuse”.
Exactly.
I think playing fast can be interesting and also a good challenge for yourself but speed and virtuosity are far from the only interesting aspects of music.
On second thought. I would love to see a collaboration between Charles, Ichika, Marcin and Jacob Collier. The resulting music would be amazingly beautiful and moving while also being an absolute vibe.
Fast can be boring if it is boring and slow stuff with ornaments also can be very boring. A fast perpetual motion piece could be so incredible and inspirational. Music is diverse. Playing is playing, so play, how you like. If you, as a player, then criticise other players you are the type of musician that other musicians do not want to play with anymore or hear anything further you have to say. Because of criticism, others are less free to play as they will. I realize that nothing is immune to criticism, but this is music, so encouragement is preferred. Otherwise good musicians can quit music. Who wants a world with less music.
I find this kind of discussion pointless, if I find a type of music boring, I’m not going to be convinced into liking it. But just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad
It sounds good sometimes, if it's not fast just for the sake of it, but it suits the mood of the phrase and whole solo.
It's easy to forget that , when Wooten first got wider attention with the Flecktones 'Sinister Minister", it was musical and innovative and nobody knew what he was doing...
The whole "It's just guitar masturbation" argument seems to entirely stem from either jealousy at never being able to achieve that level themselves, or hurt because their personal favourite musicians are being technically and virtuosically outmatched.
As others have said, not liking shreddy music is totally fine and understandable. But saying that someone like Tim Henson for example is a talentless shredder compared to say, Jimi Hendrix or David Gilmore is straight up boomer-guitarist delusion, no two ways about it.
That Victor Wooten one is sick!!!!
Victor is very musical though. Some of these dudes are just fast for the sake of it.
A criticism can be positive or negative; it can also be constructive or destructive; with humility to help progress or with pride to belittle. We must not let ourselves be touched by destructive or demeaning criticism. Saying "I don't like it" is acceptable; saying "what you're doing sucks" is unacceptable if we don't give advice on how to progress.
Humility, kindness, encouragement and love for one's neighbor: whether in any field, are the key words of propriety and the signs of a well-mannered person.
There's no such thing as constructive criticism, since it's up to the recipient to determine how criticism is received. More times than not, people confuse constructive criticism with praise.
“what you’re doing sucks” is still unacceptable if you give advice on how to progress.
@@leastselfawarepotassium Then it's up to you to determine how useful the advice afterwards is instead of just stopping at the part you didn't like and disregarding everything. You don't get to choose how good your audience's communication skills are and demanding such thing from them because you're easily offended is absurd.
I always liked a bit of both, slow/medium carchy bass playing with maybe a fast or upfront solo 3/4 into the song. Level 42 did it in their early stuff, e.g. Hot Water, people, living it up (live) true believers etc.
For me the song as well as the musicianship structuring the song without playing a zillion notes a nano second (unless you are thrash metal )was just as important.
To people who cant play fast it does Im sure.
There's little feeling in their music, only anxiousness.
If the music works and every note counts that’s all that is needed, playing fast for the sake of playing fast when its not needed will generally get you the sack
Wanted to note at 6:00 (ish) when you say that bass can't really do as well as other instruments, this is only true of electric bass. Upright bass (which "bass guitar") derived from can sustain and makes up for a lot of the weaknesses of electric.
Marcin might be the “TH-cam musician” that started ignoring fastest. All he outputs sounds the same.
The fast players i enjoy listening to have the same thing in common with the less technical players i enjoy - they all have a great sense of melody in their playing. That’s all that counts really imho whether or not it’s fast
Fast or slow the importance is if there is a music idea behind(you know if you can hear how cohesive ecc) it’s fine. Who says fast is better or worse and who says slow if better or worse.
Simple solution
If u hear it and like it then u like it, if not move on
If u think they suck, try playing it yourself
It does not matter if one can play fast or slow, but whether can one play clean
It comes down to taste and what a piece requires of the player but there will always be people that have to play every note on the fingerboard for every lead just because they can.
Sadly the non players are usually more impressed with bullshittery than something that penetrates musically. It's been that way since the days of shred.
“Welcome my fellow bassists”
Me, an 8 string player: mhm am besist :3
Your playing is precise, clean, musical and emotional. Love all of it.
I'm mid 50s, so this new guitar/ bass playing stuff ain't my thing at all. I was quick in my 20's but not like today's fast players. I respect their skills as I know it takes a long time to get that good. Just ain't my thing.
saying that "bass isn't meant to be played like that" to Victor Wooten is disrespectful knowing that he inspires Tosin Abasi to thump on the guitar
I think playing fast is fine if you can do it tastefully. Some shredders overlook the musicality.