I have them, fitted, dropped from 18 handicap to a 9 handicap within 8 weeks without any extra practice, just litrally dispersion and distance is amazing now
@@marcuscaple7955 best irons ever, probs would get jpx hot metal pro from 6 iron to 4 iron for forgivness and rest of set forged, but after practice i can now strike long irons perfectly
@@marcuscaple7955 they are great. Played about 5 rounds with them so far. Lots a driving range sessions. I have a full set of forged. They are really forgiving. Flush shots feel extremely buttery. They go a little further than my old clubs. But they have a good decent angle and spin ratio if that makes sense
Hi...loved my Gen 2 SGI irons ....but I then went to Gen 3 XP irons and was a little disappointed .... then yesterday I was fitted for the GEN 4 P irons and all i can say is WOW i love the feel and the flight of the ball off these irons....can't wait for golf season.... cheers all from Canada
Really love what you guys do, quickly becoming one of my "must see' video's when you release something. The combination of detailed yet easy to read chart along with Neil's observations/comments provide a thorough and easy to understand review of each product. I love the metric of drop off as an important element to consider. Great work guys
Love all the data-led reviews you do. It would be really interesting to compare different clubs between iron sets using a given distance and then comparing backspin and descent angle. i.e. for 150 yards it's a P770 8 iron vs a P790 9 iron vs a Sim 2 max OS PW. Then we can see how the clubs perform attempting the same approach shot.
Thanks for the feedback Ramsin. The hollow body Apex Pro is within this category, we have the Apex 21 and Apex 21 DCB in our Mid-Handicap Iron test, here th-cam.com/video/5cwP0qk31TA/w-d-xo.html
You guys are awesome. I always look forward to your content and you never disappoint. I currently have Mizuno mp30 irons and looking to upgrade because they're rather old and my ball striking is leaving me with age .... The JPX921 forged are definitely in the mix for me. Great video !!!
It's a big page, which takes a bit of trawling through but we've have it on our website MJ. Link below www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/equipment/best/golf-irons/
Probably. I switched from Callaway Apex CF 16 to P770 (had them bent one degree stronger). I lost about 22 yards in distance for P tot 8 iron. Then 7 to 4 iron are kind of my usual distance. They spin way too much for me (9000spin with 8 and 7 iron). Gonna sell them I think.
People talk about this a lot Andy, it's not something we've really experienced but we are always hitting from a consistent lie. We've certainly not seen 'odd' shots with very different numbers to the rest of the data set.
I thought the feel of the Mizuno MP-20 HMB were in a class by themselves for feel. For a blade type of design, the forgiveness was surprisingly good....Get FIT....
Like the emphasis but on carry drop off and spin drop off instead of dispersion How would you explain the king forged tec scoring best in class in last year test and now finishing last in those category ? Numbers are quite different than LY results. Thanks
Thanks Alexandre, it's a great question and one we've spent a lot of time thinking about ourselves. You have to remember these two tests are 12 months apart. Neil during that time has been speed training and how he presents the club at impact has changed to last year. Couple that with us using a different ball and a different launch monitor and there's just so many variables that are different. We've said it a few times in video's before that data is important when buying new equipment, but from what we've seen over the years, it shouldn't be the only factor in golfers making their decision, as what's happened today, isn't always what happens next week, next month or next year. Hope that helps.
Do any of these irons go farther than their loft would suggest? For example, if all of these irons were tested at the same loft, which ones would have gone the longest? I get the sense that P790 has a bit of extra "juice" than some of the others.
Sadly a couple of these not available in left hand viz honma and mizuno. Tested the rest also against the zx7; p7mc, apex pro21 and jpx 921 sel (tour) on the course for five consecutive rounds using gamer ball and only hitting driver and 7 irons each from same spot and from different parts of course and different types of shots. Surprisingly the jpx came out the best even though lofts were weakest - flight, drop off, dispersion and accuracy
Watching this a second time and just want a clarification. the P770’s were in the top 3 in Drop off comparison, yet at the end were in the “best of the rest” and the P790 was in the top 5. So the fact the P790 was the leader in carry distance it came out in the top 5 and the P770 fell out
Having watched both this and players Iron vid, both Great vids, i would say that hogan pro, apex pro and p770 actually performs better than some players Irons (combo of distance, spin and decent) at same loft. What do you really sacrifice chosing these over players irons? And what hcp recommendation would you put these 3 in?
Thanks for the comment Pkman. We'd agree comparing those three irons against Players' model is a really good shout. For any golfers that don't insist players' iron should not have any fast face or a hollow body all three are really good options. TaylorMade have said the P770 was designed for golfers with handicaps less than 7 or 8 (anything above that is where the P790 comes in). The Apex Pro could go a fraction higher as there's a ton of tungsten in the head but all three shouldn't really be finding their way into the hands of golfers with 10 -12 handicaps or above. Hope that helps.
@@todaysgolfer thanks a lot, I am at 10 hcp and undecided if ill go full cat2, mix och p770/apex pro. Based on your definitions of The categories, where would you put 962 dci, which i play now?
@@pkman9377 The DCI 962 are very different compared to the irons available today. Not sure onto lofts but they certainly wouldn't be very strong. Forgiveness level would be very much Cat 2 if that helps?
We'd say they're right on the line between Players' Distance and Mid-Handicap Iron Cameron, they could slip into either category. Strangely Wilson opted not to submit the D7 Forged this year.
@@cameronloveless1751 It doesn't Cameron. The D9's are included within our High-Handicap Iron category, the Staff Model Blades were in the muscle back category and the Launch Pad were in the hybrid iron category. Wilson lost some stock on a container ship that sank in the pacific, which might explain a little further.
There are a couple of clear take aways for me. Firstly they are all really good looking irons, that shouldn't matter but it does. I would tend to go for the smaller more compact irons such as the P770s over the bigger ones such as P790s but that is very personal. Secondly Ping really need to retire the i500 and replace it with something a lot better - it was completely outgunned by just about everything on just about every metric. Finally with something as compact and sleek as the P770s the difference between player's irons and player's distance irons becomes meaningless. I play the i210s, a player's iron (and many Tour Pros play it) but I have tested the P770s and in my hands they are functionally identical in performance to my i210s no matter what metric you look at.
Interesting to hear that the i210’s and P770’s are nearly identical in performance. I don’t believe a head to head TH-cam review exists for these two clubs, both of which I’ll be testing when I go for a custom fit.
@@stephendibari5010 it is a while since I tried them but my recollection is that the feel on the i210s was slightly softer (or maybe I am just more used to them) but I prefer the look of the P770s. If did not already own the i210s I suspect I would have bought the P770s. What I like about both clubs is the performance, in my hands, was very true to the lofts
@@todaysgolfer thanks ! Unfortunately due to bone on bone arthritis in my left hip I’m not ready for my custom fit this year. I’m Getting hip replacement surgery in the fall/early winter so I’m looking at next spring for my custom fit.
It's a really tough one to answer Alex. If you have the 919 Forged you certainly wouldn't be Mizuno's intentional target for the 921 Forged. That said the 921's are livelier, thanks to the chromoly steel. How about giving them a try side by side and seeing if you can feel/see a difference?
Why couldn’t you measure accuracy by doing absolute distance from the pin? Or by distance from the aimed center line. If I have a driver, and the first shot misses 40 yards to the right, and the second misses 40 to the left, then that could simply be expressed as 40 yards average off-center. Both miss the fairway. With an iron, the question is whether you can hit the green with an approach, and the easiest way to determine that is absolute distance from a target.
We could do that duffy no problems, the point is it, whatever data you create on a single day is non-repeatable the following week, month or year. Saying that a club is accurate because we've hit it into a tiny dispersion circle on a given test day, just doesn't represent how it will perform on the next occasion.
@@todaysgolfer I basically agree with that. But it’s largely a result of an insufficient sample size. Oddly, the conclusions that one should draw from the argument are that 1) fittings are largely pointless because of the same day to day variability and limit on sample size, and 2) online reviews are largely worthless, except perhaps as entertainment value.
@@duffypratt Understand where you're coming from, but it's just dispersion which is unreliable. Other data we can see a good correlation between test days, so long as the tester is consistent.
I watched this video back to back with the 2020 version. The Cobra Forged Tec has somehow gone from Number 1 in drop-off numbers to last, against many of the same clubs. Surely this lack of repeatability calls into question your methodology?
We've explained to you in a different video why there's difference in dispersion/forgiveness/drop-off data Steve. There's a year between the two videos you question. And we've already explained why it's not great idea to compare dispersion data from test sessions on different days, let alone a year apart. We've also explained why it's a not a great idea just to focus on the one metric of dispersion, it's the toughest single factor to prove/disprove, yet lots of golfers want to know about it. During the last year time Neil has been speed training, so how he presents the club now is very different to how he was presenting a year ago. During the last year we've also changed launch monitor and test golf ball. Are you expecting numbers to be exactly the same with so many variables?
@@todaysgolfer Thanks (again) for responding. I’m trying my best to not be annoying Internet Guy, but I think you are missing my point. I realise the tests were done a year apart, and that even a pro such as Neil with a repeatable swing us mere mortals could only dream of will have numbers that wander from session to session. However, both last year’s test and this year’s test are promoted by yourselves as uncovering the objective and subjective ‘Best’. And you make it very clear on your videos that you believe your drop-off measurements are a better guide to forgiveness/dispersion than the traditional L-R average. I agree. Although the dispersion chart pumped out by Trackman & co is far more sophisticated than averaging misses. But if you are positioning your drop-off measurements as a new standard to objectively measure forgiveness, they need to stand up to scrutiny. And whilst Neil’s swing may have been different when you retested the Cobras it would presumably have been different for all the clubs. I have no problem with subjective opinions, or individual measurements. I find both valuable. But you are using Neil’s measurements as an ‘objective’ underlay for recommending irons ranging from blades to hybrid sets. And, it seems, even that solo sample isn’t repeatable. If the Cobras had an objective 5% drop off last year, they should have the same this year. If they don’t your measurements or methodology are not objective. As with our previous back and forths, please don’t take my long-winded musings the wrong way. You are (almost) a beacon of sense in a sea of nonsense. I’d love to see you guys collaborate with the guys at TXG (the gold standard for measurements) on a set of standardised repeatable numbers. Like the Maltby MPF without the voodoo.
None of the irons in this category would have been designed with a 27 handicapper in mind. We'd recommend having a look at irons in the Mid-Handicap (th-cam.com/video/5cwP0qk31TA/w-d-xo.html) and High-Handicap (th-cam.com/video/uEdx2ruzAR4/w-d-xo.html) categories.
The ZX7 fit's nicely into the Players Iron category Stuart. It's a fraction weaker loft than the ZX5 and it doesn't have any fast face tech like the ZX5. We will have a Players Iron video up over the next few weeks. Hope that helps.
@@todaysgolfer both the ZX5 & ZX7 are on my radar. My current Pingi200 7 iron is 33 degrees loft. I’m not sure that I want to go stronger so the Wilson Staff CB at 34 degrees might be an option. I need to hit them to be sure. Thank you for replying. 😃👍🏻⛳️
Thanks to the extra head size and offset (they're very different to the TR20 P in this video) the TR21 X are in our Mid Handicap Irons video Andreas. Link here: th-cam.com/video/5cwP0qk31TA/w-d-xo.html
Sorry, but this cannot be a serious test. If you want to compare the P790s with the P770s, you either have to take the 8i from the P790s and the 7i from the P770s. Or the 7i from the P790s and the 6i from the P770s. Then you have at least nearly comparable lofts. Otherwise you could say that blades are better than game improvements, because an 8i of the blades is longer than the PW of the game improvements. Will you make also a Review of the best Player Irons? At least the lofts should be comparable there.
Surprised if you're after like for like testing Thorsten that you think testing a P770 6 iron at 37.50" against a P790 at 37" will give comparable data. We test what the manufacturers produce, we don't get to decide what a 7-iron loft is. Yes there will be a Players Iron video up within the next few days.
@@todaysgolfer "that you think testing a P770 6 iron at 37.50" against a P790 at 37" will give comparable data" Well based on a nearly comparable loft, I would definitely assume that for example launch angle, distance, spin (ok, this also depends highly on the shaft) and other factors are by far more comparable than simply looking which number is printed on the club. Because nothing else has been done by the manufacturers with introducing the "modern lofts". They simply give you a 6 iron with a 7 printed on it and, what a surprise, you hit it longer than your old 7 iron using traditional lofts. They more or less (besides all the tech within the club heads) shifted the numbers one up. Looking forward to seeing the Players Iron video.
@@thorstenbrocker6949 So many people mis-understand strong lofts. We're not saying they're right or wrong, we're happy to let the golfer decide for themselves. Just to be clear, the idea of modern strong lofts is to let golfers hit a 7-iron as far as a 6-iron (hence why it has the 6-iron loft) but achieve that with shots flying through an 8-iron window.
@@todaysgolfer Sorry, please don‘t get me wrong. I don‘t want to blame you neither the manufacturers. It is absolutely as you said. The only point I want to make that I struggle with comparing a 7 iron with modern lofts with a 7 iron with traditional lofts. The one with modern lofts will always be longer. So it would make from my point of view more sense to look at the lofts of the clubs instead of the number that is printed on it. And I also don‘t want to say that one is better or right. It is only about what do I compare. You would also not compare a 110 PS VW Tiguan with a 300 PS Cupra Ateca and then say, surprise surprise, the Cupra is by far faster although both cars have the same basis.
@@todaysgolfer Well.. I agree with Thorsten .. All the numbers (spin, launch, loft) points to one club difference, which is then basically reflected in the distance. So I would rather say, "don't be fooled by the number on the sole". If you only gave me the dry numbers, I would say "thats a 6 iron" on the 790.
My Jpx 921 forged irons just came in this week. Soo smooth. Love them
I have them, fitted, dropped from 18 handicap to a 9 handicap within 8 weeks without any extra practice, just litrally dispersion and distance is amazing now
I’m considering these, how have they been?
@@marcuscaple7955 best irons ever, probs would get jpx hot metal pro from 6 iron to 4 iron for forgivness and rest of set forged, but after practice i can now strike long irons perfectly
@@marcuscaple7955 they are great. Played about 5 rounds with them so far. Lots a driving range sessions. I have a full set of forged. They are really forgiving. Flush shots feel extremely buttery. They go a little further than my old clubs. But they have a good decent angle and spin ratio if that makes sense
@@ptwrestler14 I’m off to a Mizuno performance centre Wednesday to go and check them out 👍
TXG reviews are awesome, but I have to put these guys right up there as the best golf equipment reviewers on the web
Thanks so much for taking the time to say so Gary, it's very much appreciated. Glad to hear you enjoy what we do.
Awesome in-depth analysis. Some of the best review videos I've seen. This was very helpful in my decisions! Thank you!
Thanks so much for taking the time to say so Phillip, very much appreciate it.
Hi...loved my Gen 2 SGI irons ....but I then went to Gen 3 XP irons and
was a little disappointed .... then yesterday I was fitted for the GEN 4
P irons and all i can say is WOW i love the feel and the flight of
the ball off these irons....can't wait for golf season.... cheers all
from Canada
Really love what you guys do, quickly becoming one of my "must see' video's when you release something. The combination of detailed yet easy to read chart along with Neil's observations/comments provide a thorough and easy to understand review of each product. I love the metric of drop off as an important element to consider. Great work guys
Thank you for taking the time to say so Robert, really appreciate the feedback.
Love all the data-led reviews you do. It would be really interesting to compare different clubs between iron sets using a given distance and then comparing backspin and descent angle. i.e. for 150 yards it's a P770 8 iron vs a P790 9 iron vs a Sim 2 max OS PW. Then we can see how the clubs perform attempting the same approach shot.
Have y’all ever been able to test sub 70 irons? I’m interested in seeing how they perform because the look and price are intriguing
Hi Ryan, we are talking to Sub 70 now about being involved in our 2022 test sessions. It will be interesting to see how they stack up next year.
Great review, as usual ! Would have liked to see the Callaway Apex iron tested in there as well.
Thanks for the feedback Ramsin.
The hollow body Apex Pro is within this category, we have the Apex 21 and Apex 21 DCB in our Mid-Handicap Iron test, here th-cam.com/video/5cwP0qk31TA/w-d-xo.html
You guys are awesome. I always look forward to your content and you never disappoint. I currently have Mizuno mp30 irons and looking to upgrade because they're rather old and my ball striking is leaving me with age .... The JPX921 forged are definitely in the mix for me. Great video !!!
Thank you Dean, really appreciate you taking the time to say so. Let us know which way you go.
I guess I'm quite randomly asking but does anybody know a good site to stream newly released series online?
@Dash Byron Flixportal
@Billy Shepard Thanks, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :) Appreciate it !!
@Dash Byron happy to help xD
Absolutely love these videos and all the data lads. 👍🙏
Thanks smooch for taking the time today so LE GEND, very much appreciated.
Would like to see a complete list of irons that fit into each category
It's a big page, which takes a bit of trawling through but we've have it on our website MJ.
Link below
www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/equipment/best/golf-irons/
Can we get an update on this category soon guys?
We've been testing the 2022 models within this category this week Wayne. We're looking at filming a video in early March. Hope that helps.
@@todaysgolfer it does, especially as I'm looking at upgrading my Irons in March/April time so any feedback from you will be helpful
Any thoughts on clubs like P790 getting the occasional flier, whereas P770 for example seem not to according to reviews I’ve seen?
Probably. I switched from Callaway Apex CF 16 to P770 (had them bent one degree stronger). I lost about 22 yards in distance for P tot 8 iron. Then 7 to 4 iron are kind of my usual distance. They spin way too much for me (9000spin with 8 and 7 iron). Gonna sell them I think.
People talk about this a lot Andy, it's not something we've really experienced but we are always hitting from a consistent lie. We've certainly not seen 'odd' shots with very different numbers to the rest of the data set.
I thought the feel of the Mizuno MP-20 HMB were in a class by themselves for feel. For a blade type of design, the forgiveness was surprisingly good....Get FIT....
Like the emphasis but on carry drop off and spin drop off instead of dispersion
How would you explain the king forged tec scoring best in class in last year test and now finishing last in those category ? Numbers are quite different than LY results.
Thanks
Thanks Alexandre, it's a great question and one we've spent a lot of time thinking about ourselves.
You have to remember these two tests are 12 months apart. Neil during that time has been speed training and how he presents the club at impact has changed to last year. Couple that with us using a different ball and a different launch monitor and there's just so many variables that are different.
We've said it a few times in video's before that data is important when buying new equipment, but from what we've seen over the years, it shouldn't be the only factor in golfers making their decision, as what's happened today, isn't always what happens next week, next month or next year.
Hope that helps.
Do any of these irons go farther than their loft would suggest? For example, if all of these irons were tested at the same loft, which ones would have gone the longest? I get the sense that P790 has a bit of extra "juice" than some of the others.
Sadly a couple of these not available in left hand viz honma and mizuno. Tested the rest also against the zx7; p7mc, apex pro21 and jpx 921 sel (tour) on the course for five consecutive rounds using gamer ball and only hitting driver and 7 irons each from same spot and from different parts of course and different types of shots. Surprisingly the jpx came out the best even though lofts were weakest - flight, drop off, dispersion and accuracy
Thanks for the input Aly.
Great. Buying jpx second hand.
I'm curious where the new cobra king tour mim irons fit in ? Would they be comparable to the zx 7 as for forgiveness?
Both the Cobra King MIM and ZX7 are in our Players' Iron category Chad. You can see a comparison here th-cam.com/video/sHafbz38pGU/w-d-xo.html
Watching this a second time and just want a clarification. the P770’s were in the top 3 in Drop off comparison, yet at the end were in the “best of the rest” and the P790 was in the top 5. So the fact the P790 was the leader in carry distance it came out in the top 5 and the P770 fell out
For a 'Distance' category there is a premium on distance yes.
For a 'Distance' category there is a premium on distance yes.
@@todaysgolfer makes sense. Thanks
Maybe time to look at these. Think I’m giving away too much on my current 718 AP2’s. Time for a change to Mizuno?
Give them a try alongside your AP2's Marcus, will be interesting to see the difference.
Club Champion in the US fits Ben Hogan's line. They're the only fitter that the Hogan company works with.
Thanks for the input Greg
Having watched both this and players Iron vid, both Great vids, i would say that hogan pro, apex pro and p770 actually performs better than some players Irons (combo of distance, spin and decent) at same loft. What do you really sacrifice chosing these over players irons? And what hcp recommendation would you put these 3 in?
Thanks for the comment Pkman. We'd agree comparing those three irons against Players' model is a really good shout. For any golfers that don't insist players' iron should not have any fast face or a hollow body all three are really good options.
TaylorMade have said the P770 was designed for golfers with handicaps less than 7 or 8 (anything above that is where the P790 comes in). The Apex Pro could go a fraction higher as there's a ton of tungsten in the head but all three shouldn't really be finding their way into the hands of golfers with 10 -12 handicaps or above.
Hope that helps.
@@todaysgolfer thanks a lot, I am at 10 hcp and undecided if ill go full cat2, mix och p770/apex pro.
Based on your definitions of The categories, where would you put 962 dci, which i play now?
@@pkman9377 The DCI 962 are very different compared to the irons available today. Not sure onto lofts but they certainly wouldn't be very strong. Forgiveness level would be very much Cat 2 if that helps?
@@todaysgolfer Thank you very much!
What feels better off the face.. the Mizuno or the pxg’s?
Feel is so subjective Shannon, what one person thinks they feel another doesn't, Neil isn't a typical 'feel' player but he really liked both.
Have you ever considered testing Orka's range of irons?
We've done a little with Orka before Scott, they're really tough to find though, even in the UK.
Which category did you put Wilson D7 Forged in guys? Are they not considered a Players Distance iron?
We'd say they're right on the line between Players' Distance and Mid-Handicap Iron Cameron, they could slip into either category.
Strangely Wilson opted not to submit the D7 Forged this year.
@@todaysgolfer hmmm... interesting🤔 does that mean they also didn’t submit the D9, the CB, and the Staff Blades?
@@cameronloveless1751 It doesn't Cameron. The D9's are included within our High-Handicap Iron category, the Staff Model Blades were in the muscle back category and the Launch Pad were in the hybrid iron category.
Wilson lost some stock on a container ship that sank in the pacific, which might explain a little further.
@@todaysgolfer what about CB’s? Them and the D7 Forged were the ones I was most keen to see hit/rated
@@cameronloveless1751 The CB's are in and they're included within our Players Iron category. We'll have a video up on them within a week or so.
There are a couple of clear take aways for me. Firstly they are all really good looking irons, that shouldn't matter but it does. I would tend to go for the smaller more compact irons such as the P770s over the bigger ones such as P790s but that is very personal. Secondly Ping really need to retire the i500 and replace it with something a lot better - it was completely outgunned by just about everything on just about every metric.
Finally with something as compact and sleek as the P770s the difference between player's irons and player's distance irons becomes meaningless. I play the i210s, a player's iron (and many Tour Pros play it) but I have tested the P770s and in my hands they are functionally identical in performance to my i210s no matter what metric you look at.
Thanks for the input Justin.
Interesting to hear that the i210’s and P770’s are nearly identical in performance.
I don’t believe a head to head TH-cam review exists for these two clubs, both of which I’ll be testing when I go for a custom fit.
@@stephendibari5010 Two very strong options Stephen. Let us know how you get on.
@@stephendibari5010 it is a while since I tried them but my recollection is that the feel on the i210s was slightly softer (or maybe I am just more used to them) but I prefer the look of the P770s. If did not already own the i210s I suspect I would have bought the P770s. What I like about both clubs is the performance, in my hands, was very true to the lofts
@@todaysgolfer thanks ! Unfortunately due to bone on bone arthritis in my left hip I’m not ready for my custom fit this year. I’m Getting hip replacement surgery in the fall/early winter so I’m looking at next spring for my custom fit.
Guys have been using the JPX 919 forged, do you think it's worth looking at the 921?
It's a really tough one to answer Alex. If you have the 919 Forged you certainly wouldn't be Mizuno's intentional target for the 921 Forged.
That said the 921's are livelier, thanks to the chromoly steel. How about giving them a try side by side and seeing if you can feel/see a difference?
Numbers on the p770 seem so different in this rest to your other video?
The tests are done with two different balls and they would have been at least six months apart (with Neil speed training between them) Harry.
Why couldn’t you measure accuracy by doing absolute distance from the pin? Or by distance from the aimed center line. If I have a driver, and the first shot misses 40 yards to the right, and the second misses 40 to the left, then that could simply be expressed as 40 yards average off-center. Both miss the fairway. With an iron, the question is whether you can hit the green with an approach, and the easiest way to determine that is absolute distance from a target.
We could do that duffy no problems, the point is it, whatever data you create on a single day is non-repeatable the following week, month or year. Saying that a club is accurate because we've hit it into a tiny dispersion circle on a given test day, just doesn't represent how it will perform on the next occasion.
@@todaysgolfer I basically agree with that. But it’s largely a result of an insufficient sample size. Oddly, the conclusions that one should draw from the argument are that 1) fittings are largely pointless because of the same day to day variability and limit on sample size, and 2) online reviews are largely worthless, except perhaps as entertainment value.
@@duffypratt Understand where you're coming from, but it's just dispersion which is unreliable. Other data we can see a good correlation between test days, so long as the tester is consistent.
I watched this video back to back with the 2020 version. The Cobra Forged Tec has somehow gone from Number 1 in drop-off numbers to last, against many of the same clubs. Surely this lack of repeatability calls into question your methodology?
We've explained to you in a different video why there's difference in dispersion/forgiveness/drop-off data Steve.
There's a year between the two videos you question. And we've already explained why it's not great idea to compare dispersion data from test sessions on different days, let alone a year apart. We've also explained why it's a not a great idea just to focus on the one metric of dispersion, it's the toughest single factor to prove/disprove, yet lots of golfers want to know about it.
During the last year time Neil has been speed training, so how he presents the club now is very different to how he was presenting a year ago. During the last year we've also changed launch monitor and test golf ball.
Are you expecting numbers to be exactly the same with so many variables?
@@todaysgolfer Thanks (again) for responding. I’m trying my best to not be annoying Internet Guy, but I think you are missing my point. I realise the tests were done a year apart, and that even a pro such as Neil with a repeatable swing us mere mortals could only dream of will have numbers that wander from session to session. However, both last year’s test and this year’s test are promoted by yourselves as uncovering the objective and subjective ‘Best’. And you make it very clear on your videos that you believe your drop-off measurements are a better guide to forgiveness/dispersion than the traditional L-R average. I agree. Although the dispersion chart pumped out by Trackman & co is far more sophisticated than averaging misses. But if you are positioning your drop-off measurements as a new standard to objectively measure forgiveness, they need to stand up to scrutiny. And whilst Neil’s swing may have been different when you retested the Cobras it would presumably have been different for all the clubs. I have no problem with subjective opinions, or individual measurements. I find both valuable. But you are using Neil’s measurements as an ‘objective’ underlay for recommending irons ranging from blades to hybrid sets. And, it seems, even that solo sample isn’t repeatable. If the Cobras had an objective 5% drop off last year, they should have the same this year. If they don’t your measurements or methodology are not objective. As with our previous back and forths, please don’t take my long-winded musings the wrong way. You are (almost) a beacon of sense in a sea of nonsense. I’d love to see you guys collaborate with the guys at TXG (the gold standard for measurements) on a set of standardised repeatable numbers. Like the Maltby MPF without the voodoo.
Which category is Srixon ZX5? 3,5?
ZX5 is a Players Distance Iron Nordan, forgiveness rating 2.5 - 3.
Hope that helps.
Would you recommend these irons to a higher handicapper? (27)
None of the irons in this category would have been designed with a 27 handicapper in mind.
We'd recommend having a look at irons in the Mid-Handicap (th-cam.com/video/5cwP0qk31TA/w-d-xo.html) and High-Handicap (th-cam.com/video/uEdx2ruzAR4/w-d-xo.html) categories.
You’ve got the Srixon ZX5 on test here but where does the ZX7 fit in?
The ZX7 fit's nicely into the Players Iron category Stuart. It's a fraction weaker loft than the ZX5 and it doesn't have any fast face tech like the ZX5.
We will have a Players Iron video up over the next few weeks.
Hope that helps.
@@todaysgolfer both the ZX5 & ZX7 are on my radar. My current Pingi200 7 iron is 33 degrees loft. I’m not sure that I want to go stronger so the Wilson Staff CB at 34 degrees might be an option. I need to hit them to be sure.
Thank you for replying. 😃👍🏻⛳️
@@stuartjames1971 Absolutely hit them and get a fitting on whichever set you buy. Pleasure.
How about the TR 21x irons?
Thanks to the extra head size and offset (they're very different to the TR20 P in this video) the TR21 X are in our Mid Handicap Irons video Andreas.
Link here: th-cam.com/video/5cwP0qk31TA/w-d-xo.html
@@todaysgolfer Thx a lot!
The PXG XP is KING!!!!
Surprised you didn’t mention about loft jacking which is a big reason some clubs are going farther than others
Question- I have a friend who wants to pay me $500 for my used Callaway Rogue X. Should I do it and upgrade to the Callaway Mavrik irons?
Sorry, but this cannot be a serious test. If you want to compare the P790s with the P770s, you either have to take the 8i from the P790s and the 7i from the P770s. Or the 7i from the P790s and the 6i from the P770s. Then you have at least nearly comparable lofts. Otherwise you could say that blades are better than game improvements, because an 8i of the blades is longer than the PW of the game improvements.
Will you make also a Review of the best Player Irons? At least the lofts should be comparable there.
Surprised if you're after like for like testing Thorsten that you think testing a P770 6 iron at 37.50" against a P790 at 37" will give comparable data.
We test what the manufacturers produce, we don't get to decide what a 7-iron loft is.
Yes there will be a Players Iron video up within the next few days.
@@todaysgolfer "that you think testing a P770 6 iron at 37.50" against a P790 at 37" will give comparable data"
Well based on a nearly comparable loft, I would definitely assume that for example launch angle, distance, spin (ok, this also depends highly on the shaft) and other factors are by far more comparable than simply looking which number is printed on the club. Because nothing else has been done by the manufacturers with introducing the "modern lofts". They simply give you a 6 iron with a 7 printed on it and, what a surprise, you hit it longer than your old 7 iron using traditional lofts. They more or less (besides all the tech within the club heads) shifted the numbers one up.
Looking forward to seeing the Players Iron video.
@@thorstenbrocker6949 So many people mis-understand strong lofts. We're not saying they're right or wrong, we're happy to let the golfer decide for themselves. Just to be clear, the idea of modern strong lofts is to let golfers hit a 7-iron as far as a 6-iron (hence why it has the 6-iron loft) but achieve that with shots flying through an 8-iron window.
@@todaysgolfer Sorry, please don‘t get me wrong. I don‘t want to blame you neither the manufacturers. It is absolutely as you said. The only point I want to make that I struggle with comparing a 7 iron with modern lofts with a 7 iron with traditional lofts. The one with modern lofts will always be longer. So it would make from my point of view more sense to look at the lofts of the clubs instead of the number that is printed on it.
And I also don‘t want to say that one is better or right. It is only about what do I compare. You would also not compare a 110 PS VW Tiguan with a 300 PS Cupra Ateca and then say, surprise surprise, the Cupra is by far faster although both cars have the same basis.
@@todaysgolfer Well.. I agree with Thorsten .. All the numbers (spin, launch, loft) points to one club difference, which is then basically reflected in the distance. So I would rather say, "don't be fooled by the number on the sole". If you only gave me the dry numbers, I would say "thats a 6 iron" on the 790.
How in the world did Japanese become a powerhouse in golf equipment..
Because when that country puts their mind to something they work tirelessly to perfect the craft. No surprise really.
Interesting hat. Brave👍
Trust us Andy after 3 months of lockdown with no barbers open, hat is better than hair right now.
@@todaysgolfer 👍🤣I hear you!
@@andy66l97 Sorry Andy, no sure why but we can't seem to reply to your question about the P770.