Survive and bark river both grind hot without water cooled belts. Thats likely part of the issue on top of heat treat decisions. The heat when they grind warms the temper up substantially. If they dip in water thats also messing it up cause now its cooling and heating multiple times. The company doesn't know how to properly makes knives. They just make pretty objects in popular steels and make profit by skipping the correct way to do it.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Stop being a no at all consumer. You've probably never met a knife in your life. You're just rattling off things that you hear other people say.
@@Simon-talks Entirely false. The main thing about Magnacut is it is very stain resistant, more so than even 20CV while having good edge retention. There are many other steels with better edge retention than this steel.
Thank you for doing this video. I don’t know if this will help but: I’ve made two Magnacut knives with Peter’s heat treatment and I’ve tested them both quite a bit. I’ve found that Magnacut rusts in salt water in less than two days and that it hasn’t corroded or gotten a patina when I have cut a variety of things and intentionally not cleaned the blades. I have Some TH-cam videos on this. It could be that Peter’s heat treated my blade after they got things dialed in (the first knife was heat treated more than 7 months ago). I hope you try a good Magnacut knife in the future since I’ve found the steel exceptional.
Its the heat treat most likely. They can change it, but who knows if they will or not. Someone has to talk to them and it's likely no one has. But its also possible that bark river just grind on belts running too fast and burning those blades. They are known for that. Water cooled belt grinder is the answer but they refuse to change
@@tacticalcenter8658 I hadn’t thought about the possibility of them messing up the heat treatment by letting the steel get too hot while grinding, that could also be the reason. Either way I haven’t known of any other Magnacut getting corrosion this easily.
@@totesmalotes when you grind your knives after heat treat, do you use water cooled belts? Maybe you can try in the future. Just take a hose and drip feed it on the belt. Make sure it doesn't get in the electronics. Look up examples on youtube. Factoring that out could mean its just the protocol that peters is using. Perhaps Larrin can intervene and correct the protocol. Im guessing it wouldn't make financial sense to get more magnacut and use peters though.
@@tacticalcenter8658 I think Peter’s heat treatment is great. I believe that two days in salt water before it rusts is as good as Magnacut corrosion resistance gets. I’ve only seen two people on TH-cam do the same test as me and one got the same results and the other (Peter from Cedric and Ada) left his knife in salt water for only a day. I’ll probably have to buy a Magnacut knife from spyderco in the future to test it myself but that won’t be until later on. But I dunk my blades in water when I do a zero bevel grind and when I do a secondary bevel I do it by hand on diamond stones because I am paranoid about too much heat.
@@totesmalotes dunking on water is not helping. You get hot on the belts then you quench in water. And you do that multiple times. That's different than keeping water on the belts keeping the metal from heating and cooling in temp at all.
That is my intention. I bought Magna-Cut expecting it to be stainless because I had researched it and read all of Larin Thomas's stuff about it. When I made these videos I had people telling me I hadn't researched enough, and that Magna-Cut was never supposed to be stainless, and all sorts of similar comments. All I am doing is showing how my knives tarnished immediately and did not perform as expected, and giving an explanation why it may have happened. I hope this helps anyone who is interested in Magna-Cut.
This is quite interesting to me. I've got an Aurora Scandi in Magnacut which is, as far as my knowledge goes, one of the earliest runs BRK did of the steel. I've not had any problems with it whatsoever but that's not to say it's impossible that I will eventually. I recall there being an issue with the batches of steel initially pushed out by Niagara. Things like imperfections in the stock causing breaks on knives under less than egregious abuse. Perhaps it could be attributed to an issue from Niagara? I don't rightly know. I can't say that I've had issues though, even with other brands using Magnacut like Hogue.
My favorite steels are 3V, S35VN, & Magnacut. My Barkies in 3V are my go to. I have not tried maxamet as yet. From what I read it’s a great stainless steel but less toughness. And I want the toughness over edge retention.
Someone in the comments quoted Mike Stewart saying their Magna-Cut is treated to 62 Rockwell and therefore is not stainless. So, if you want stainless Magna-Cut don't get Bark River. In the quote, which was on a private Facebook page, Mike Stewart makes no apology for the fact that their's is not stainless, and really sounds mad that anyone would think Magna-Cut should be stainless or question anything Bark River does. This is despite the fact that CPM's speck sheet shows it being more stainless than S45Vn, S35Vn, or 20CV. Thanks for letting all of us know that this is not just my knives or just the Bravo LT run of knives.
I bought a JX6 Companion (not II) made from Elmax in late 2019. The knife still looks shiny and new (but obviously it has been sharpened since) so I was considering to upgrade to the II and magnacut. Apparently I should wait a while until the ins and outs of that steel are better understood. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Well, sir, sounds like you kinda got to the bottom of it. Good work, I'd say. And your choice to keep the blades is (obviously) your choice and therefore the right one. This is what I like about TH-cam - the exchange of ideas, information and experiences between common folk. I found this whole thing extremely interesting and if I ever go to buy myself a knife in magnacut, I'll be happy to know about your experience. (I own only the one Bark River, and not likely to get myself another, favoring LT Wright blades myself.) Anyhow, I subbed, just in case you come across any more knife mysteries! 👍
Thank you for subscribing. I plan to do more knife videos in the future. I don't have any LT Wright, but they look good. I'm also considering Battle Horse. Also have a couple of custom knives that are supposed to be made when the maker can get to them. Glad I could pass on my knowledge and I agree that is the good thing about TH-cam.
I would try the flitz, and then gently rub some bar keepers friend on the blade with your finger. The bark keeps friend will eat any corroded metal and will make the steel very dry. Be gentle when rubbing the bar keepers friend on the blade so it won't scratch your knife. I think if the blade steel is magnacut, you'll see a decrease in corrosion since you would have removed some or all of the non stainless steel.
Dang this is a little discouraging. I just got a Bradford guardian 3 in magnacut two days ago and was so excited for this new steel. I’m praying I don’t run into this same issue 🙏 Sorry about this issue your dealing with brother I’d be so upset.
@@lyman135 I polished one of the knives and it's staying fairly stain/patina free now. Most of my knives are not stainless and work just fine. I'm not worried about that, but according to everything I had read and heard before buying these, Magna-Cut is supposed to be more stainless than S45VN, S35VN etc. I just want to put this out there so if someone is thinking about buying this or needs stainless they will be better informed. Honestly, I think 3V is a better steel in Bark River Knives. I don't see that Bark River Magna-Cut holds an edge any longer than 3V, and my 3V blades stay as patina and stain free as the Magna-Cut.
I think you got to the bottom of this and your theory is sound. If you look at the MC data sheet (Google it, then go to page 2, under Temper) it will confirm that high temperature tempers (or overheating the blade after temper) will reduce corrosion resistance. MC is a low chromium steel and it gets its corrosion resistance through proper heat treatment only. NOW... I offer an alternative explanation on the poor temper. Bark River confirms that they use the same belt on many knives and indeed their finish looks (and had y for a long time) like a knife that was ground on a dull (over-used) belt. Dull belts will heat the surface of the blade VERY quickly, especially if pressure is applied against the belt. This would probably not affect knife performance much, which is consistent with your initial impressions. So there you go... Lazy grinding = patina. Maybe.
They grind the knives without water and micro quench which is also bad. Horrible company. A known issue they refuse to grind under water running over the belts.
I have had better luck with one of these knives after I polished the blade. However, I don't see that they are better than 3V. I have decided to stop buying Bark River Knives. I don't believe they are making them as good as they could, and I don't think they care what their customers think. The fit and finish is excellent on these last two I bought, but sometimes it is not. Thanks for the information and for watching.
I think it’s grinding dust personally. I don’t think it matters much if they are all ground in batches. Grinding dust will oxidize a million times faster than a solid piece of steel because of the increased surface area of the metal particles. If that’s impregnated into the knife steel it will oxidize faster than the blade steel. It should clean up with polishing and not stain/patina once it’s cleaned up I would think. Being the devils advocate, if I was not able to get Magnacut steel but wanted to switch it out for another steel that was readily available and not loose any performance in terms of edge retention or toughness I would swap it for CPM-4V. My 4V knives do stain and rust. For me the difference would be obvious between these steels though.
Good info, thanks for the video showing your knife. At this point, the only person I would get info from regarding MagnaCut is from Dr. Larrin Thomas (the inventor of MagnaCut). I would be skeptical of any new blades since the defect is at the source
I agree. I am not usually this quick buy a new steel, but I had heard so much good about it. I still think if it's done right it would be a good steel. However, it will be a long time before I buy Magna-Cut again, and I am done buying Bark River Knives. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Good luck with that. Maybe you won't have a problem. Mine are performing well as far as staying sharp and stropping back. I've done kitchen work and processed a few deer. How is the fit and finish?
I agree. The Magna-Cut in my Bark River Knives performs about like 3V, but takes a patina far worse. 3V is my choice at this time for Bark River Knives. I have not tried other brands in Magna-Cut.
I have only tried regular Flitz. The knife I used it on tarnished again. Not the fault of the Flitz, I'm just saying it didn't fix this Magna-Cut to polish it.
@@MountainLife1 I had the same issue mine was even pitting. I polished the heck out of it. What stopped it was the flitz ceramic sealer. But I also used the knife wax first. You have good videos 👍
@@MountainLife1 you are welcome. I have more than 10 bark river knives and I treat them all with the ceramic sealer and they stopped rusting or blemish. You can find videos on TH-cam on it. Take care
The steel in this blade is not stainless, same thing with CPM-3V, they are high performance steel but they will stain with use, I have Bark River knives in both steels and use both as my main carry knives for hunting and camping and pretty much anything I need a knife to do I take great care of them, keep them clean and sharp and both show the signs of use, it is unavoidable due to the nature of the steel, and as you stated that you cut oranges with the knife and the acid in the orange will definitely leave it's mark on the blade. It has nothing to do with your treatment of the knife it's just the nature of the steel
@@shroomsrus5116 yes, ALL carbon steel will rust, but if you know how to take care of your tools you can prevent that from happening. If you are getting rust on your knives undoubtedly you don't know how to take care of them and it's not the knifes fault, it's yours
Saying that Magnacut is “not stainless” like 3V is highly asinine and clearly shows lack of understanding in metallurgy. Magnacut is very stainless because of the composition.
Dr Larrin Thomas metallurgist, writing about the steel he invented "Also I am sure that people will look at the Cr content and immediately call it a “semi-stainless” despite the steel’s excellent corrosion resistance. So hopefully word of the steel’s performance travels faster than initial reactions to the composition. I might be putting too much faith in humanity. The biggest surprise in testing of MagnaCut was how good its corrosion resistance is. It was expected to have corrosion resistance in between S35VN and S45VN, “good” or even “great” but not spectacular. However, the corrosion resistance ended up being even better than 20CV and just under stellar steels like Vanax or LC200N."
Not sure what's so good about a steel that doesn't do what it's supposed to. I guess if it was a $50 knife I wouldn't care. But the price Barkriver charges I'd want it right. Wonder how the edge holds up?
Interview with sal from spyderco I watched he was talking about how impressed they were when they tested Magnacut in house with its stainlessness they decided to use it in salt series.
It’s your money and your choice, but why use outdoor knives for kitchen knives. Oranges are acidic as hell, ham is loaded with curing salt and I do not know what seasoning you use on a steak; any of these things could attack the finish. Stainless steel means just that, stain less not stain proof. My expensive bushcraft and hunting knives are packed away and my Henkles and Cutcos are in the kitchen. Best of luck with finding the answer.
I like to use all of my knives for all kinds of things, just to see how they do. I feel these knives should easily handle this work, or else how can I rely on them to cut steak/meat and other stuff I might cook in the field. From all I've read and heard, Magna-Cut should easily do kitchen work with no stains. In one of my videos, I say that I just cook steak in butter with salt. That is all the seasoning that was in the steak that tarnished the one knife.
I have 6 knives in Magnacut, even from when it was first released and have never had an issue. I have over 400 knives and in the past I have had a number of knives with suspect heat treatment/tempering. I do not believe the issues with your knife has anything to do with whether or not it is a new steel. 420HC is just as susceptible to poor heat treatment and it has been around for many years. You are a victim of 'confirmation bias'. You came in to the purchase with trepidation and your 'fear' has been verified. Confirmation bias.
It sounds as if you are saying it's my fault that these knives do not perform as expected. In order for this to be confirmation bias, I would have had to have some predetermined idea that this steel would not perform well. That is not the case, and there was no fear involved with buying these knives. This is not confirmation bias, it's just plain old bad knife making.
Except that all of the chromium in magna-cut is "in solution" instead of forming chromium carbides like in "old school" stainless. Only chromium "in solution" contributes to stainlessness. Magna-cut is fully stainless due to the lack of chromium carbides.
Mike Stewart Bark River Knives has said from the beginning that his Magna-Cut knives ''are not stainless'' ,,, you are poorly informed and have not done enough research on the issue... I bought a BRK Bravo 1 magna-cut and it is exactly as you described,,, holds edge well, easy to freshen the edge on a strop and will tarnish when used,,, EXACTLY what Mike Stewart has said ;)
@@MountainLife1 Lets get this Straight - Our Magna-Cut blades are heat treated by Peter's heat Treat - they worked with the designer to get everything correct. Our blades are 62 Rockwell - Not 64 Rockwell. They are tougher than if they were at 64. I'll give up a little stain resistance for more toughness any day. I really don't listen to people that are not professionals. Magna-Cut is NOT - NOT a stainless Steel no matter who says it is. It is a highly alloyed Tool Steel that leaves the Chromium as Free Chromium in the matrix. I have said this from Day one. I am not putting a blade out there at 64 Rockwell. If it is a bit less Stain Resistant - so be it - I have made that clear from day one as well. I am concerned with Performance. this Steel is tougher at 62 and that is what we are going to stick with. We did not do anything wrong in Heat treat or Temper - we did what the Designer said to do if you want the knife at 62 Rockwell. Like it or not - I'm sticking with 62 Rockwell. People need to re-sharpen these knives on a strop - they should not have to go to a diamond hone to put and edge back on them. I hope I have made myself Clear here. Mike Stewart
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I actually did quite a bit of research on Magna-Cut, and watched numerous videos of people testing it. I have read all the Larrin Thomas stuff and everything that Bark River, DLT Trading and Crucible/Niagara says about it. I actually bought the knives the first of December and sent them to get the ramps taken off. To my knowledge, there was no video showing any tarnishing on any Bark River Magna-Cut knife at all. Since you commented, I have searched for Bark River Magna-Cut, Mike Stewart Magna-Cut and other variations of this and have been unable to find the information you are giving me. DLT Trading, Knives Ship Free, or Bark River Knives does not have any of this information on their websites as far I can see. I believe what you are telling me is true, and I thank you for it, but I don't understand why this information is so hard to find or so hidden. Shouldn't this be public knowledge on these websites where people buy these knives. In fact, DLT Trading (one of the largest Bark River Knives dealers) told me that the Magna-Cut in these knives was stainless, and that only a smear of some non-stainless steel was probably on the knife. Why would one of the largest dealers with a close relationship with Bark River Knives not know the truth? I never said what Rockwell these knives are at, I just said something was done in the heat treatment that makes them less stainless than advertised by the knife world at large. I don't have a problem with 62 Rockwell, and don't really care if a knife takes a patina, but again this information should be made evident to anyone looking at a Bark River Magna-Cut knife. The best I can tell, Bark River Boys is a private Facebook page. Why should people have to dig for this information? Thanks again for watching and taking the time to bring this to my attention. Please don't take this response as a criticism of you.
@@MountainLife1 Thank you for doing the research and crating a space for people to comment on this, as well as being so accommodating to them. I haven't made a purchase, simply because I could not find the details about the products I would like. You had to put out all of these videos before that information became available. Best wishes.
Several knife manufacturers are having trouble with Magna Cut!! please see Survive knives website about its GSO 5.1 knives in Magna Cut.. They are coming out of heat treat with problems and its bad... They have a video about it...
Several? or just Survive! and (maybe) BRK (pure speculation at this point)? Neither of these issues have been conclusively shown to be a problem with the steel. Survive! always manage to find someone else to blame for their problems and BRK doesn't seem to think there is a problem with the steel at all.
@@lb4937 Survive does research and finds out what is actually going on! They were fine when they sent them to heat treat and when they came back they were not!! DO SOME RESEARCH!
If stainless does not mean it will not rust then what does it mean? Every other brand of Magna-Cut besides Bark River will not rust under almost any condition it is put in, even when people try to make it rust.
@@MountainLife1all Magna-Cut will rust, sooner or later. Every steel can rust. Not big problem. Magna-Cut is not good becouse is stainless, Magna-Cut is the best becouse it is perfectly balanced steel.I have Bravo 1 LT in MC and have no eny problem with patina, and if yes, it is just patina, not rust.
@@zdenekbart I agree that Magna-Cut is a well balanced steel that holds an edge and is not hard to sharpen. It is also a steel that can be made almost stain proof or can be made so that it takes a patina in minutes after cutting something such as a steak. It all depends on how the steel is produced/heat treated. Because of its stainless properties, some companies are using Magna-Cut for knives designed to be carried in coastal environments where saltwater is a factor. Apparently, some companies are not producing Magna-Cut at that level. So, I agree with your statements about Magna-Cut being well balanced, but the performance varies widely with how the steel is handled. In Bark River Knives, I place Magna-Cut at about the same level as 3V, although most of my 3V knives did not take a patina as fast as the Magna-Cut knives you see in my videos. If you want to see how Magna-Cut can perform and how stainless it can be if properly done, see Cedric and Ada
@@MountainLife1Maybe is a bit better then 3V in stain resistance, but is more far better in edge retention and toughnes, that's why it is my favotite.
In rusting tests magnacut is in practicality as stainless as lc200n. I wash mine off at work with a garden hose and it never gets so much as a mark. Might be the treat on this bark river especially if they’re running it below 60. The heat treat has a massive effect on which carbide end up in the steel in which state, if the steel is martensite or austenite etc etc and can completely change the properties of a steel. Magnacut doesn’t resist corrosion in the same way that traditional stainless steels do so the treat may have even more substantial effects
@@Simon-talks Stain resistant tool steel only exists as a marketing term to describe Magnacut, its not a real classification. They used the same term to describe M390 when it was introduced, but you would be unable to find anyone calling it a tool steel now. Magnacut is a stainless steel, not a tool steel, because it is highly stain-resistant. The only potential definition of tool steel Magnacut meets is if tool steel has to be less than 13% chromium percentage. The problem is that definition makes stainless mean nothing because ZDP-189 has as much chromium as M390, but it is less stainless than D2, which is called a tool steel. D2 has more chromium than 409 stainless and other low carbon stainless steels, but they are more stainless. Outside of the knife world, the cutoff for stainless is closer to 10%, which would make Magnacut and D2 both stainless. Anywhere we put the dividing line doesn't work because it will make some tool steels count as stainless steels, or some stainless steels count as tool steels, and ZDP-189 will always be a non-stainless stainless steel because if you put the line past it then no knife steel counts as stainless. If you say a tool steel is one designed for industrial tooling, then Magnacut isn't a tool steel because it was designed for knives. It also makes no sense because the vast majority of steels including the stainless ones were designed for industrial uses. Basically every steel would be a tool steel. If you say it is a tool steel because it matches the toughness of a tool steel, that doesn't work because there are plenty of tool steels that are not tough at all, even accounting for their edge retention. To fit with the way the word has been used up until now, tool steel has to mean an alloy steel(as opposed to plain carbon steel) that is not fully stainless. That is the only definition that preserves the meaning of the word stainless and covers the steels we called tool steel up to this point. Tool steel is a catch-all term for steels that aren't stainless and aren't carbon steels. If we define it that way, then we don't have any category outliers, ZDP-189 is a tool steel because it isn't fully stainless, and Magnacut is a stainless steel because it is stainless. It does over-simplify steels into Carbon, non or semi stainless alloy, and stainless alloy, but tool steels and stainless steels both have as much variety in composition and edge retention as each other, so any other classification is going to put steels we call stainless and steels we call tool steels into the same categories as each other.
nope, it's a fact. like most “stainless” knives they are not purely stainless, they are stain resistant and magnacut is a type of tool steel because of the similar make up to tool steels. Mike Stewart covered this extensively and has broken down the metallurgic process....
Whatever you call it, Magna-Cut was never supposed to stain this easy. I watched every video I could find and read all of Larrin Thomas's stuff about Magna-Cut before buying these. If you want to see how Magna-Cut is supposed to perform, watch Cedric and Ada and see the tests of Magna-Cut on that channel.
That patina is coming from a faulty heat treat 100%
Survive and bark river both grind hot without water cooled belts. Thats likely part of the issue on top of heat treat decisions.
The heat when they grind warms the temper up substantially. If they dip in water thats also messing it up cause now its cooling and heating multiple times.
The company doesn't know how to properly makes knives. They just make pretty objects in popular steels and make profit by skipping the correct way to do it.
Thank God we've got experts like you around to tell them how to make knives. 🙄
@@lyman135 they dont listen. Stop being an ignorant consumer.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Stop being a no at all consumer. You've probably never met a knife in your life. You're just rattling off things that you hear other people say.
@@lyman135 its spelled 'know it all'. I'm not saying what others are saying. I actually know things.
I have 3 magna cuts from bark river and neither have tarnished or patinaed
Same here. And Magnacut isn't even considered a stainless steel....just at stain 'resistant' tool steel.
@@Simon-talks Entirely false. The main thing about Magnacut is it is very stain resistant, more so than even 20CV while having good edge retention. There are many other steels with better edge retention than this steel.
@@ZoneCrasher no
@@ZoneCrasher lol casual
Thank you for doing this video. I don’t know if this will help but: I’ve made two Magnacut knives with Peter’s heat treatment and I’ve tested them both quite a bit. I’ve found that Magnacut rusts in salt water in less than two days and that it hasn’t corroded or gotten a patina when I have cut a variety of things and intentionally not cleaned the blades. I have Some TH-cam videos on this.
It could be that Peter’s heat treated my blade after they got things dialed in (the first knife was heat treated more than 7 months ago). I hope you try a good Magnacut knife in the future since I’ve found the steel exceptional.
Its the heat treat most likely. They can change it, but who knows if they will or not. Someone has to talk to them and it's likely no one has. But its also possible that bark river just grind on belts running too fast and burning those blades. They are known for that. Water cooled belt grinder is the answer but they refuse to change
@@tacticalcenter8658 I hadn’t thought about the possibility of them messing up the heat treatment by letting the steel get too hot while grinding, that could also be the reason. Either way I haven’t known of any other Magnacut getting corrosion this easily.
@@totesmalotes when you grind your knives after heat treat, do you use water cooled belts? Maybe you can try in the future. Just take a hose and drip feed it on the belt. Make sure it doesn't get in the electronics. Look up examples on youtube.
Factoring that out could mean its just the protocol that peters is using. Perhaps Larrin can intervene and correct the protocol.
Im guessing it wouldn't make financial sense to get more magnacut and use peters though.
@@tacticalcenter8658 I think Peter’s heat treatment is great. I believe that two days in salt water before it rusts is as good as Magnacut corrosion resistance gets.
I’ve only seen two people on TH-cam do the same test as me and one got the same results and the other (Peter from Cedric and Ada) left his knife in salt water for only a day. I’ll probably have to buy a Magnacut knife from spyderco in the future to test it myself but that won’t be until later on.
But I dunk my blades in water when I do a zero bevel grind and when I do a secondary bevel I do it by hand on diamond stones because I am paranoid about too much heat.
@@totesmalotes dunking on water is not helping. You get hot on the belts then you quench in water. And you do that multiple times. That's different than keeping water on the belts keeping the metal from heating and cooling in temp at all.
Thanks for taking the time to document this and present the findings of your research. Its a valuable resource for others looking into magnacut steel
That is my intention. I bought Magna-Cut expecting it to be stainless because I had researched it and read all of Larin Thomas's stuff about it. When I made these videos I had people telling me I hadn't researched enough, and that Magna-Cut was never supposed to be stainless, and all sorts of similar comments. All I am doing is showing how my knives tarnished immediately and did not perform as expected, and giving an explanation why it may have happened. I hope this helps anyone who is interested in Magna-Cut.
Thanks for your comments on the Bark River Magna-cut knives. it is appreciated.
Thanks for watching! If I have any more problems I will be sure to post a video of it.
Thanks for reporting your findings, this was a very helpful video 👍
Glad I could help out. Thanks for watching and commenting.
This is quite interesting to me. I've got an Aurora Scandi in Magnacut which is, as far as my knowledge goes, one of the earliest runs BRK did of the steel. I've not had any problems with it whatsoever but that's not to say it's impossible that I will eventually. I recall there being an issue with the batches of steel initially pushed out by Niagara. Things like imperfections in the stock causing breaks on knives under less than egregious abuse. Perhaps it could be attributed to an issue from Niagara? I don't rightly know. I can't say that I've had issues though, even with other brands using Magnacut like Hogue.
My favorite steels are 3V, S35VN, & Magnacut. My Barkies in 3V are my go to. I have not tried maxamet as yet. From what I read it’s a great stainless steel but less toughness. And I want the toughness over edge retention.
I have a JX6 II in magnacut,,,just purchased it about a month ago from DLT. It has a patina,,,,,😥😥😥👎
Someone in the comments quoted Mike Stewart saying their Magna-Cut is treated to 62 Rockwell and therefore is not stainless. So, if you want stainless Magna-Cut don't get Bark River. In the quote, which was on a private Facebook page, Mike Stewart makes no apology for the fact that their's is not stainless, and really sounds mad that anyone would think Magna-Cut should be stainless or question anything Bark River does. This is despite the fact that CPM's speck sheet shows it being more stainless than S45Vn, S35Vn, or 20CV. Thanks for letting all of us know that this is not just my knives or just the Bravo LT run of knives.
Thanks. I have seriously considered the JX6 ii, but that answers my questions. I hope you enjoy the knife otherwise.
I bought a JX6 Companion (not II) made from Elmax in late 2019. The knife still looks shiny and new (but obviously it has been sharpened since) so I was considering to upgrade to the II and magnacut. Apparently I should wait a while until the ins and outs of that steel are better understood.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Well, sir, sounds like you kinda got to the bottom of it. Good work, I'd say. And your choice to keep the blades is (obviously) your choice and therefore the right one.
This is what I like about TH-cam - the exchange of ideas, information and experiences between common folk. I found this whole thing extremely interesting and if I ever go to buy myself a knife in magnacut, I'll be happy to know about your experience. (I own only the one Bark River, and not likely to get myself another, favoring LT Wright blades myself.)
Anyhow, I subbed, just in case you come across any more knife mysteries! 👍
Thank you for subscribing. I plan to do more knife videos in the future. I don't have any LT Wright, but they look good. I'm also considering Battle Horse. Also have a couple of custom knives that are supposed to be made when the maker can get to them. Glad I could pass on my knowledge and I agree that is the good thing about TH-cam.
Magna Cut is not a stainless steel....it's stain resistant tool steel. Everyone in the knife world knows this already.
@@Simon-talks so many people think its really really stainless if you read what people say all over the internet.
I know but "they" also said "safe and effective jabs" and "cloth masks work" all over the internet for 3 years too and we saw how that turned out....
@@Simon-talks correct, plandemic for control. Those things made it worse. The masses were brainwashed.
I would try the flitz, and then gently rub some bar keepers friend on the blade with your finger. The bark keeps friend will eat any corroded metal and will make the steel very dry. Be gentle when rubbing the bar keepers friend on the blade so it won't scratch your knife. I think if the blade steel is magnacut, you'll see a decrease in corrosion since you would have removed some or all of the non stainless steel.
Nobody has a warranty as good as Bark River Period.
Dang this is a little discouraging. I just got a Bradford guardian 3 in magnacut two days ago and was so excited for this new steel. I’m praying I don’t run into this same issue 🙏
Sorry about this issue your dealing with brother I’d be so upset.
@@lyman135 it's not what its advertised to be.
@@lyman135 you are ignorant
@@lyman135 I polished one of the knives and it's staying fairly stain/patina free now. Most of my knives are not stainless and work just fine. I'm not worried about that, but according to everything I had read and heard before buying these, Magna-Cut is supposed to be more stainless than S45VN, S35VN etc. I just want to put this out there so if someone is thinking about buying this or needs stainless they will be better informed. Honestly, I think 3V is a better steel in Bark River Knives. I don't see that Bark River Magna-Cut holds an edge any longer than 3V, and my 3V blades stay as patina and stain free as the Magna-Cut.
I think you got to the bottom of this and your theory is sound. If you look at the MC data sheet (Google it, then go to page 2, under Temper) it will confirm that high temperature tempers (or overheating the blade after temper) will reduce corrosion resistance. MC is a low chromium steel and it gets its corrosion resistance through proper heat treatment only. NOW... I offer an alternative explanation on the poor temper. Bark River confirms that they use the same belt on many knives and indeed their finish looks (and had y for a long time) like a knife that was ground on a dull (over-used) belt. Dull belts will heat the surface of the blade VERY quickly, especially if pressure is applied against the belt. This would probably not affect knife performance much, which is consistent with your initial impressions. So there you go... Lazy grinding = patina. Maybe.
They grind the knives without water and micro quench which is also bad. Horrible company. A known issue they refuse to grind under water running over the belts.
I have had better luck with one of these knives after I polished the blade. However, I don't see that they are better than 3V. I have decided to stop buying Bark River Knives. I don't believe they are making them as good as they could, and I don't think they care what their customers think. The fit and finish is excellent on these last two I bought, but sometimes it is not.
Thanks for the information and for watching.
I think it’s grinding dust personally. I don’t think it matters much if they are all ground in batches. Grinding dust will oxidize a million times faster than a solid piece of steel because of the increased surface area of the metal particles. If that’s impregnated into the knife steel it will oxidize faster than the blade steel. It should clean up with polishing and not stain/patina once it’s cleaned up I would think. Being the devils advocate, if I was not able to get Magnacut steel but wanted to switch it out for another steel that was readily available and not loose any performance in terms of edge retention or toughness I would swap it for CPM-4V. My 4V knives do stain and rust. For me the difference would be obvious between these steels though.
Good info, thanks for the video showing your knife. At this point, the only person I would get info from regarding MagnaCut is from Dr. Larrin Thomas (the inventor of MagnaCut). I would be skeptical of any new blades since the defect is at the source
I agree. I am not usually this quick buy a new steel, but I had heard so much good about it. I still think if it's done right it would be a good steel. However, it will be a long time before I buy Magna-Cut again, and I am done buying Bark River Knives. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Bark river has mixed blade stock in the past giving a2 as 154cm in one case that Cedric and Aida channel
Just got my ext-1 from bark river in magnacut yesterday hopefully it’ll be more stainless that’s the main reason I got it.
Good luck with that. Maybe you won't have a problem. Mine are performing well as far as staying sharp and stropping back. I've done kitchen work and processed a few deer. How is the fit and finish?
It sounds like magnacut is a finicky steel. I’ll stick with 3V
I agree. The Magna-Cut in my Bark River Knives performs about like 3V, but takes a patina far worse. 3V is my choice at this time for Bark River Knives. I have not tried other brands in Magna-Cut.
Can you link that video to survive knives video talking about this?
th-cam.com/video/O6yGtnM2sQU/w-d-xo.html
Magnacut is stainless and stainless does not patina. What you're talking about is most likely just dirty and needs cleaning
99.9% that BRKT used A2 steel. Not even CPM 3V tarnishes like that.
I have had great results from flitz polish and then flitz gun and k ife wax and lastly the ceramic sealer from flitz.
I have only tried regular Flitz. The knife I used it on tarnished again. Not the fault of the Flitz, I'm just saying it didn't fix this Magna-Cut to polish it.
@@MountainLife1 I had the same issue mine was even pitting. I polished the heck out of it. What stopped it was the flitz ceramic sealer. But I also used the knife wax first. You have good videos 👍
@@mrglock2313 Thanks for the info. If mine gets too bad, at least I'll know what to do.
@@MountainLife1 you are welcome. I have more than 10 bark river knives and I treat them all with the ceramic sealer and they stopped rusting or blemish. You can find videos on TH-cam on it. Take care
Those are good tatters. Mhm-Hmm.😂😂
The steel in this blade is not stainless, same thing with CPM-3V, they are high performance steel but they will stain with use, I have Bark River knives in both steels and use both as my main carry knives for hunting and camping and pretty much anything I need a knife to do I take great care of them, keep them clean and sharp and both show the signs of use, it is unavoidable due to the nature of the steel, and as you stated that you cut oranges with the knife and the acid in the orange will definitely leave it's mark on the blade. It has nothing to do with your treatment of the knife it's just the nature of the steel
Actually it is though. I think I’ll take advice from multiple trusted sources over you 😂. It rusts far easier than it should
@@shroomsrus5116 yes, ALL carbon steel will rust, but if you know how to take care of your tools you can prevent that from happening. If you are getting rust on your knives undoubtedly you don't know how to take care of them and it's not the knifes fault, it's yours
Saying that Magnacut is “not stainless” like 3V is highly asinine and clearly shows lack of understanding in metallurgy.
Magnacut is very stainless because of the composition.
Actually it’s so stainless that it’s almost stainproof and Spyderco replaced H2 and LC200N to Magnacut.
Wonder why…
Dr Larrin Thomas metallurgist, writing about the steel he invented "Also I am sure that people will look at the Cr content and immediately call it a “semi-stainless” despite the steel’s excellent corrosion resistance. So hopefully word of the steel’s performance travels faster than initial reactions to the composition. I might be putting too much faith in humanity. The biggest surprise in testing of MagnaCut was how good its corrosion resistance is. It was expected to have corrosion resistance in between S35VN and S45VN, “good” or even “great” but not spectacular. However, the corrosion resistance ended up being even better than 20CV and just under stellar steels like Vanax or LC200N."
Link for both fixed blades please?
You can get the Bark River Bravo 1 LT Magna-Cut at www.dlttrading.com and the Dunn at www.dunnknives.com.
It could be old stock from the A2 Bravo 1 (regular size) ground down to make the Bravo 1 LT so as to not lose profits from unused leftover steel.
just give me a good carbon steel and i'll save 300 dollaes they all cut they all do the job
Rusts though
Not sure what's so good about a steel that doesn't do what it's supposed to.
I guess if it was a $50 knife I wouldn't care. But the price Barkriver charges I'd want it right.
Wonder how the edge holds up?
Interview with sal from spyderco I watched he was talking about how impressed they were when they tested Magnacut in house with its stainlessness they decided to use it in salt series.
That's good to hear. Everything I had heard before I got these knives talked about how stainless Magna-Cut is. Thanks for watching and commenting.
It’s your money and your choice, but why use outdoor knives for kitchen knives. Oranges are acidic as hell, ham is loaded with curing salt and I do not know what seasoning you use on a steak; any of these things could attack the finish. Stainless steel means just that, stain less not stain proof. My expensive bushcraft and hunting knives are packed away and my Henkles and Cutcos are in the kitchen. Best of luck with finding the answer.
I like to use all of my knives for all kinds of things, just to see how they do. I feel these knives should easily handle this work, or else how can I rely on them to cut steak/meat and other stuff I might cook in the field. From all I've read and heard, Magna-Cut should easily do kitchen work with no stains. In one of my videos, I say that I just cook steak in butter with salt. That is all the seasoning that was in the steak that tarnished the one knife.
@@MountainLife1 I use my Magnacut on everything as well I have no staining
I have 6 knives in Magnacut, even from when it was first released and have never had an issue. I have over 400 knives and in the past I have had a number of knives with suspect heat treatment/tempering. I do not believe the issues with your knife has anything to do with whether or not it is a new steel. 420HC is just as susceptible to poor heat treatment and it has been around for many years. You are a victim of 'confirmation bias'. You came in to the purchase with trepidation and your 'fear' has been verified. Confirmation bias.
It sounds as if you are saying it's my fault that these knives do not perform as expected. In order for this to be confirmation bias, I would have had to have some predetermined idea that this steel would not perform well. That is not the case, and there was no fear involved with buying these knives. This is not confirmation bias, it's just plain old bad knife making.
Magnacut is actually semi stainless. It's chromium content is 10%. Old school stainless is 12-15% chromium content.
Except that all of the chromium in magna-cut is "in solution" instead of forming chromium carbides like in "old school" stainless. Only chromium "in solution" contributes to stainlessness. Magna-cut is fully stainless due to the lack of chromium carbides.
Mike Stewart Bark River Knives has said from the beginning that his Magna-Cut knives ''are not stainless'' ,,, you are poorly informed and have not done enough research on the issue... I bought a BRK Bravo 1 magna-cut and it is exactly as you described,,, holds edge well, easy to freshen the edge on a strop and will tarnish when used,,, EXACTLY what Mike Stewart has said ;)
Thanks for watching and for bringing Mike Stewart's words to my attention. When and where did he say this?
@@MountainLife1 he repeated his position on magna-cut yesterday on "Bark River Boys'' your video was ''hotly'' debated
@@MountainLife1 Lets get this Straight - Our Magna-Cut blades are heat treated by Peter's heat Treat - they worked with the designer to get everything correct. Our blades are 62 Rockwell - Not 64 Rockwell. They are tougher than if they were at 64. I'll give up a little stain resistance for more toughness any day. I really don't listen to people that are not professionals. Magna-Cut is NOT - NOT a stainless Steel no matter who says it is. It is a highly alloyed Tool Steel that leaves the Chromium as Free Chromium in the matrix. I have said this from Day one. I am not putting a blade out there at 64 Rockwell. If it is a bit less Stain Resistant - so be it - I have made that clear from day one as well. I am concerned with Performance. this Steel is tougher at 62 and that is what we are going to stick with.
We did not do anything wrong in Heat treat or Temper - we did what the Designer said to do if you want the knife at 62 Rockwell. Like it or not - I'm sticking with 62 Rockwell. People need to re-sharpen these knives on a strop - they should not have to go to a diamond hone to put and edge back on them.
I hope I have made myself Clear here. Mike Stewart
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I actually did quite a bit of research on Magna-Cut, and watched numerous videos of people testing it. I have read all the Larrin Thomas stuff and everything that Bark River, DLT Trading and Crucible/Niagara says about it. I actually bought the knives the first of December and sent them to get the ramps taken off. To my knowledge, there was no video showing any tarnishing on any Bark River Magna-Cut knife at all.
Since you commented, I have searched for Bark River Magna-Cut, Mike Stewart Magna-Cut and other variations of this and have been unable to find the information you are giving me. DLT Trading, Knives Ship Free, or Bark River Knives does not have any of this information on their websites as far I can see. I believe what you are telling me is true, and I thank you for it, but I don't understand why this information is so hard to find or so hidden. Shouldn't this be public knowledge on these websites where people buy these knives. In fact, DLT Trading (one of the largest Bark River Knives dealers) told me that the Magna-Cut in these knives was stainless, and that only a smear of some non-stainless steel was probably on the knife. Why would one of the largest dealers with a close relationship with Bark River Knives not know the truth?
I never said what Rockwell these knives are at, I just said something was done in the heat treatment that makes them less stainless than advertised by the knife world at large. I don't have a problem with 62 Rockwell, and don't really care if a knife takes a patina, but again this information should be made evident to anyone looking at a Bark River Magna-Cut knife. The best I can tell, Bark River Boys is a private Facebook page. Why should people have to dig for this information?
Thanks again for watching and taking the time to bring this to my attention. Please don't take this response as a criticism of you.
@@MountainLife1 Thank you for doing the research and crating a space for people to comment on this, as well as being so accommodating to them. I haven't made a purchase, simply because I could not find the details about the products I would like. You had to put out all of these videos before that information became available. Best wishes.
Much drama queen playacting going on in the knife "community" these days...
Several knife manufacturers are having trouble with Magna Cut!! please see Survive knives website about its GSO 5.1 knives in Magna Cut.. They are coming out of heat treat with problems and its bad... They have a video about it...
Several? or just Survive! and (maybe) BRK (pure speculation at this point)? Neither of these issues have been conclusively shown to be a problem with the steel. Survive! always manage to find someone else to blame for their problems and BRK doesn't seem to think there is a problem with the steel at all.
@@lb4937 Survive does research and finds out what is actually going on! They were fine when they sent them to heat treat and when they came back they were not!! DO SOME RESEARCH!
🙈
Bark River knives all look handle heavy, they need to use tapered tangs.
Many of them have skeletonized handles, so are not as handle heavy as they look.
Stainless do not mean it not rust. Stainless steels do not exist. Magna-Cut is the best steel in every aspect, very well balanced.
If stainless does not mean it will not rust then what does it mean? Every other brand of Magna-Cut besides Bark River will not rust under almost any condition it is put in, even when people try to make it rust.
@@MountainLife1all Magna-Cut will rust, sooner or later. Every steel can rust. Not big problem. Magna-Cut is not good becouse is stainless, Magna-Cut is the best becouse it is perfectly balanced steel.I have Bravo 1 LT in MC and have no eny problem with patina, and if yes, it is just patina, not rust.
@@MountainLife1stainless it means it will take longer time, until it will rust.
@@zdenekbart I agree that Magna-Cut is a well balanced steel that holds an edge and is not hard to sharpen. It is also a steel that can be made almost stain proof or can be made so that it takes a patina in minutes after cutting something such as a steak. It all depends on how the steel is produced/heat treated. Because of its stainless properties, some companies are using Magna-Cut for knives designed to be carried in coastal environments where saltwater is a factor. Apparently, some companies are not producing Magna-Cut at that level. So, I agree with your statements about Magna-Cut being well balanced, but the performance varies widely with how the steel is handled. In Bark River Knives, I place Magna-Cut at about the same level as 3V, although most of my 3V knives did not take a patina as fast as the Magna-Cut knives you see in my videos. If you want to see how Magna-Cut can perform and how stainless it can be if properly done, see Cedric and Ada
@@MountainLife1Maybe is a bit better then 3V in stain resistance, but is more far better in edge retention and toughnes, that's why it is my favotite.
Magna Cut is not a stainless steel....it's stain resistant tool steel. Everyone in the knife world knows this already.
In rusting tests magnacut is in practicality as stainless as lc200n. I wash mine off at work with a garden hose and it never gets so much as a mark. Might be the treat on this bark river especially if they’re running it below 60. The heat treat has a massive effect on which carbide end up in the steel in which state, if the steel is martensite or austenite etc etc and can completely change the properties of a steel. Magnacut doesn’t resist corrosion in the same way that traditional stainless steels do so the treat may have even more substantial effects
not a stainless steel....it's stain resistant tool steel.
@@Simon-talks Stain resistant tool steel only exists as a marketing term to describe Magnacut, its not a real classification. They used the same term to describe M390 when it was introduced, but you would be unable to find anyone calling it a tool steel now. Magnacut is a stainless steel, not a tool steel, because it is highly stain-resistant.
The only potential definition of tool steel Magnacut meets is if tool steel has to be less than 13% chromium percentage. The problem is that definition makes stainless mean nothing because ZDP-189 has as much chromium as M390, but it is less stainless than D2, which is called a tool steel. D2 has more chromium than 409 stainless and other low carbon stainless steels, but they are more stainless. Outside of the knife world, the cutoff for stainless is closer to 10%, which would make Magnacut and D2 both stainless. Anywhere we put the dividing line doesn't work because it will make some tool steels count as stainless steels, or some stainless steels count as tool steels, and ZDP-189 will always be a non-stainless stainless steel because if you put the line past it then no knife steel counts as stainless.
If you say a tool steel is one designed for industrial tooling, then Magnacut isn't a tool steel because it was designed for knives. It also makes no sense because the vast majority of steels including the stainless ones were designed for industrial uses. Basically every steel would be a tool steel.
If you say it is a tool steel because it matches the toughness of a tool steel, that doesn't work because there are plenty of tool steels that are not tough at all, even accounting for their edge retention.
To fit with the way the word has been used up until now, tool steel has to mean an alloy steel(as opposed to plain carbon steel) that is not fully stainless. That is the only definition that preserves the meaning of the word stainless and covers the steels we called tool steel up to this point. Tool steel is a catch-all term for steels that aren't stainless and aren't carbon steels. If we define it that way, then we don't have any category outliers, ZDP-189 is a tool steel because it isn't fully stainless, and Magnacut is a stainless steel because it is stainless.
It does over-simplify steels into Carbon, non or semi stainless alloy, and stainless alloy, but tool steels and stainless steels both have as much variety in composition and edge retention as each other, so any other classification is going to put steels we call stainless and steels we call tool steels into the same categories as each other.
nope, it's a fact. like most “stainless” knives they are not purely stainless, they are stain resistant and magnacut is a type of tool steel because of the similar make up to tool steels. Mike Stewart covered this extensively and has broken down the metallurgic process....
The clue is in the description. STAIN LESS . IE. Not stain free!
Whatever you call it, Magna-Cut was never supposed to stain this easy. I watched every video I could find and read all of Larrin Thomas's stuff about Magna-Cut before buying these. If you want to see how Magna-Cut is supposed to perform, watch Cedric and Ada and see the tests of Magna-Cut on that channel.