I was an Apple II+ guy. The 64 had better graphics and sound, no contest for gaming. But when it came to spreadsheets, word processors, graphing programs and just about anything else Apple had it covered. I had no issue gaming on the Apple. A lot of the games then had such basic graphics that the difference did not really affect gameplay. And the best games were available on both.
It’s great to hear about your experience with the Apple II+! It really was a versatile system for productivity, and you’re right-Apple excelled in areas like word processing and spreadsheets. Gaming might not have been its strong suit compared to the C64, but as you said, many of the best games were cross-platform. Which game did you enjoy most on the Apple II+?
It makes sense the C-64 looked and sounded better than the Apple II. The IIe while enhanced, still has it's architecture based on the original that was released in 1977, so it doesn't have many of the more modern hardware the C64 had. But, considering how old the foundation of the Apple was, it is remarkable that it continued to sell systems until 1993 As for your joystick concerns, it sounds like the joystick was out of alignment. The Apple II joystick is analog, and the potentiometers for both axis needs calibration quite frequently. The following is a quick BASIC program I'd type out to calibrate a joystick 10 PRINT PDL (0), PDL (1) 20 GOTO 10 RUN This will generate two columns of numbers, the goal is to adjust the potentiometers on each axis till it is as close to 127 as possible. Depending on the model of joystick, the adjustment mechanism might be a plastic tab, or a knob or a screw. I agree the joystick control on the Apple II Arkanoid just isn't playable. It does support a mouse, which has much improved control, but that requires an add on card and mouse.
It’s fascinating how the Apple II’s architecture, dating back to 1977, managed to remain competitive and even sell systems up until 1993! It really shows how robust that foundation was. While the C64 had a clear edge in sound and visuals, the Apple II still carved its own unique space in computing history. Thanks for sharing your insights! Great tip on calibrating the Apple II joystick! I hadn’t thought about the analog nature requiring frequent calibration-that BASIC program you shared is a fantastic solution. I completely agree about Arkanoid on the Apple II; the joystick really hinders the experience, but I didn’t realize it supported mouse input with an add-on card. That’s a neat workaround for those who have the setup!
@@FloppyDeepDive It's a bit easier if you have a IIc or IIGS with built in mouse controls. You just need to get a proper mouse for them That said, the IIGS version of Arkanoid II is fantastic!
I remember my friends Apple with green and black screen and tick tick blip blip sounds for games like Moebius by Origin and Auto Duel. His system was HUGE too. Mostly used by his father for business.
The green and black screens on those early Apples were so memorable, and those “tick tick blip blip” sounds are classic! It’s funny how these computers were huge back then and often used for business, yet they managed to provide so much entertainment with games like Moebius and Auto Duel.
Oh look, there's no question the C64 bests the Apple II in terms of gaming. I had both, first the Apple then the C64 and once I got my 64 I rarely booted up the Apple. But having said that, for the first home computer in the late 70's, the Apple II was simply amazing. Compared, for example to the Atari 2600 I would choose the Apple, so I am glad my system progression went Apple II > C64. (Then Amiga.. and what a system that was!)
Sounds like you had an incredible journey through the evolution of home computing! The Apple II was a powerhouse for its time, especially in productivity, but the C64 truly shined when it came to gaming. And moving on to the Amiga after that-what a lineup! Each system had its own strengths, and it’s great to hear how each fit into your progression. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@FloppyDeepDive Yes each system had its own strengths just as you say, and the Apple II although not as powerful or proficient for gaming has a quirky charm about it not quite like any other system. I'm just glad we were around in those times to experience the pioneering days of computing and gaming! :)
@@FloppyDeepDive The Radio Shack TRS-80 and Commodore PET were both on the market in 1977, not just the Apple. The TRS-80 and PET even came with a monitor, unlike the Apple. I love my Apple IIe and my Commodore 64 equally... and my Tandy 1000
Absolutely, you’re spot on! The TRS-80 and PET were also pioneers alongside the Apple II in 1977, each with unique setups like the PET’s built-in monitor. Sounds like you have an awesome collection-Apple IIe, C64, and a Tandy 1000!
Haha, totally agree! The C64 has so much going for it that it’s hard for the Apple to keep up. But yeah, Lemonade Stand definitely has its charm-simple yet addictive! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Given that the C64 had something like 4-5 years newer graphics and a sound chip, that's no surprise. The Apple ][ was arguably better for RPG games though since the floppy load times were dramatically faster than the C64, and fast animation isn't as important in something like the early Ultima games or Bard's Tale. Infocom games didn't take *minutes* to load on the Apple ][ either.
@ By the late 80’s, I discovered the Apple ][ was only good at one thing: word processing & educational applications. Which was its initial purpose in life, it wasn’t designed with games in mind.
Just recently, I thought about building an Apple ][e from scratch, just to see it power on successfully; and run Oregon Trail. But later on, remembering about the very primitive graphics and lack of sound, I built a C64 EVO instead. It seems an Apple ][ can’t get sold for any price on EBay. I found an Apple ][e for sale on EBay, for not a bad price. It included lots of cards, especially a very expensive (when new) sound card! 😮 Unfortunately the high end sound card only worked for software written for it. I wasn’t sold on it, the graphics and processing power still sucked on it. The EVO 64 was more worth the money. Now I’m into the Atari 800XL computers, I have an NTSC and Freddie PAL. I repaired both, and have all the sweetest upgrades. I’m having a blast with these Atari computer games and demo’s, that are actually comparable to the C64.
Sounds like you’ve been on an awesome retro journey! The C64 EVO was a solid choice-definitely brings back the feel of the original with some modern upgrades. And the Atari 800XL lineup has some gems that hold their own against the C64. Glad you’re enjoying those demos and games; nothing beats experiencing them on the real hardware!
I saw Arctic Fox on the Amiga in 1985 at a computer user group meeting. I was blown away. I got my first Amiga 500 in 1989 (I gave up a trip to Disney World to get it. I played Falcon F16, Gunship, Dragon's Lair and Zack McKracken that summer on it. It Came From The Desert was mind blowing when it came out. Gunship 2000 eventually came out for the Amiga (had a A3000 by then) and I played that one to death along with Pinball Dreams and Pinball Fantasies (I was then encouraged to play real pinball and eventually made 34 recreations on VP/VPM in the early 2000s as PacDude.)
@@VonMagXL What an amazing journey with the Amiga! Giving up a Disney trip for an Amiga 500 shows true dedication, and it sounds like it was absolutely worth it. Falcon, Gunship, Dragon’s Lair, and Zack McKracken are all such legendary titles, and It Came From The Desert really did push the boundaries of what the Amiga could do. And moving on to pinball recreations in the 2000s? That’s impressive! Thanks for sharing such a fantastic story!
@FloppyDeepDive Technically, the C64 and Vic20 before that were my brother's, but I probably spent more time playing games on them. I went back in the 90s while he was on a trip and finally beat Impossible Mission, The Asylum, The Institute, Dallas Quest and several others. More recebtly, I just completed Ultima I and II on a C64 emulator and Lairware Ultima III on my old 2012 Mac Mini. I've got the fan made Ultima IV and V cartridges (no disk swapping and C128 music on Ultima V) ready to go. I also remapped the emulation keyboard to use modern arrow keys, etc to control the movement). I bought the Ultima 1-8 collection before so I don't feel bad about playing downloaded fan cartridges.
Sounds like you’ve had some epic gaming sessions on those classic titles! Beating Impossible Mission and Dallas Quest must have been so satisfying. And playing the Ultima series with fan cartridges and modernized controls is a fantastic way to relive those adventures-especially with that C128 music enhancement. The dedication shows!
As pointed out before. c64 beats due to being newer. However, I'm still amazed at the used APPLE II plus my parents purchased me. Really nice green screen monitor. TV color though seemed to suck. Years later I found out you could get an RGB card / monitor for it and even a sound card. Though only a hand full of games used it. Though during that time. All computers was investments. You just continued adding stuff to it. I was blown away seeing a c64 using what a 1701 monitor compared to a tv.
It’s interesting to hear how much you could upgrade an Apple II over time, especially with options like RGB cards and sound cards-even if they were limited in use. Those green screen monitors had a distinct feel, didn’t they? The C64’s ability to connect to a monitor like the 1701 really did make a difference compared to standard TVs at the time. There was something special about seeing those vibrant colors and smoother graphics on a dedicated monitor. Thanks for sharing this nostalgic insight!
@@saganandroid4175 Yes, this make is all very exciting. I try to keep software / hardware separate. But, hard to ignore when one system has a sound chip in it and the other does not. My personal fav. was the Atari 7800. Really wish they used a sound chip in it. Being 10 in 1985. The sound on the NES and C64 blew me away.
C64 has the better specs, and I think you actually went easy on the Apple II with your game selections as these games are actually somewhat comparable in some respects :) although the C64 has much better sound. That said the Apple II is an amazing home computer that came out earlier and has so much nostalgia for me - we had a ton of games for it (thanks to my cousin) and a green monochrome display - it was so much fun. I used to play a game that looked quite similar to Arctic Fox on the Apple II which is called Stellar 7 and I've played Arkanoid and Axis Assassin. These are probably my two favourite computer systems of the time and I have only praise and nostalgia for both of them!
Thanks for sharing that! The nostalgia for both the C64 and the Apple II is real-I love hearing about others’ journeys with these classic systems. Stellar 7 is a great comparison to Arctic Fox! They each have their charm, and it’s awesome to see how these systems shaped our love for gaming.
While there is nothing wrong with most of the games shown here on the Apple II, when shown side by side against the C64 it does show that despite being release after the C64 it was far less powerful with the IIe graphics that rely on artifacts that are a kluge that don't work as a reliable system and sound that is poor also. There are only two Apple II products worthwhile, the original II It was a torch bearer for what was to come in computing (it did this along side The PET and the TRS 80) incredible flexible. Then the GS (which while not the prolific system some people claim it as) Which while arriving too late for the specs, carried the II product line with a more refined and better everything. The IIGS is the only Apple product I would want even today and I have owned a number of Macs (mostly 68K variants and a PPC) which have all been a disappointment. The C64 pulled off the impossible with what it has done. I didn't program on the C64 as I didn't like the 6502 CPU (IIe included) but I was impressed with what was possible on that system with custom graphics and sound chips.
Great points! The C64 really did maximize its capabilities with custom graphics and sound, creating experiences that still stand out today. I agree, the original Apple II was revolutionary for its time, and the IIgs took that legacy forward with some solid enhancements. It’s fascinating to look back and see how each system carved its own unique path in computing history.
My gaming journey was long but wonderful. Started with the Atari 2600 at 7 years of age. Then got a Commodore Vic20 for about a year. Then the big one and still my favourite machine EVER on Xmas morning 1985 - my Commodore 64 breadbin model. Had that for about 3 years then progressed onto the AtariST 520STFM. Had that for about 2 years then moved onto the Amiga. Coming from the Atari ST it wasn't really such a big leap. Didnt have it too long before I went PC master race and been there ever since. Any Apple product was never really in my thought process. The best thing about PC is that through emulation you can carry all your gaming past and memories with you.
It sounds like you had an amazing journey through the evolution of gaming! From the Atari 2600 to the C64 and then the Atari ST and Amiga-that’s a path filled with classic memories. The “breadbin” C64 on Christmas morning must have been unforgettable! Emulation on PC really does let us keep all those memories alive and accessible. Thanks for sharing your story!
We had an apple at school and a few years later got a C64 at home. Apple seemed ok at the time. I kind of like the the odd way Apple handled colors - white colors would have colored artifacts around them. It was charming! Especially noticeable on games like Choplifter. I enjoyed seeing the tempest close - it looks great on the Apple and I wonder if it used a certain color mode for that one.
Thanks for sharing that! Axis Assassin definitely had its own look on the Apple II, and those unique color artifacts added a lot of charm, especially in games like Choplifter. It’s always fascinating how each system’s quirks made the games feel distinct. Really appreciate hearing about your experience with both systems!
I used my Atari Paddle controller, when I played Arkanoid on the C64, since it's supported by the game. It works great and plays as smoothly as the arcade. 😃👍
That’s awesome! Using the Atari Paddle with Arkanoid on the C64 sounds like the perfect setup. Glad to hear it worked so smoothly-nothing like bringing that arcade feel home! Thanks for sharing! 👍😊
I share the same vibe as most of the others in the comments here. Not much of a competition. The Commodore surpasses in pretty much every area, graphics, sound, gameplay etc. However, it's still incredible to see the same games on the Apple II and how they appear. For anyone who grew up with one, they were still able to play and experience these games in 'some' way. That's kinda cool.
I agree, there’s definitely something special about being able to experience those same games on both platforms, even if the Commodore tends to outperform in most areas. It’s incredible to see how each system handled these games in its unique way. Growing up with either one gave people a chance to play and enjoy in their own style. That’s the magic of retro gaming-different approaches, same nostalgic vibes!
I never had an Apple or even knew anyone who did, so I've only played Apple games via emulation. In general, I find that the C64 has better graphics, better sound, better animation, and better gameplay. Of course there are exceptions, but Apple games often seem clunky to me. Arkanoid - I played this on the C64, using a set of Atari paddles, which worked great. I'm still pissed that they removed the paddle option in the sequel, in favor of mouse control. Using a mouse is better than a joystick, but is still inferior to a paddle. The Apple version also seems to be missing the random enemies that come out of the hatches at the top. Axis Assassin - I liked it, but the fact that you could flip the shooter over and fire towards the screen was both a blessing and a curse. While it was good for shooting stuff on the very edge, I would often accidentally flip it over when I didn't mean to.
Great insights! It’s amazing how the paddle on the C64 makes Arkanoid feel so smooth. I totally get the frustration about losing the paddle option in the sequel-nothing quite matches that level of control. And yeah, Axis Assassin’s flip mechanic can be a bit of a double-edged sword. Thanks for sharing your experiences with these games!
It's worth noting that the North American C64 release of Arkanoid supported, not only the paddles, but the 1351 mouse. Most cracked versions of Arkanoid are from the Euro version, which does not support the 1351. And I've also found cracks of the US version where the cracking team deliberately removed 1351 support!
That’s fascinating! I didn’t realize the North American version had that 1351 mouse support, while the European version didn’t. It’s wild how some cracks even removed that compatibility. Really adds another layer to how these versions differed-thanks for sharing that insight!
Systems look surprisingly close here, but those are just games that exist for both of them. There are many superb c64 games that Apple 2 could never hope of pulling them off.
Using the Atari Paddle controller with Arkanoid on the C64 sounds like the perfect combo! That precise control must make the gameplay even more enjoyable. It’s always awesome to see different retro hardware pieces complementing each other so well.
The problem is most Apple II computers came with a monochrome screen. They were sold mostly to businesses, schools and universities geared for education not gaming, but many students made fascinating home brew games and ports for them.
Absolutely! The monochrome screens and educational focus definitely shaped how the Apple II was used. It’s amazing how creative students got with those limitations, pushing the boundaries with homebrew games and making the most of the hardware.
I never bought Arkanoid at the time, so many games to spend my pocket money on and it seemed like a simple game vs my other options. When I did play it half a decade ago with an Atari paddle controller it instantly became my favourite bat n ball type game and the only one I fire up now on my SD2IEC because of the paddle controller support. The superlative audio by Galway just completes the package for me and I prefer it to the Amiga port even.
Arkanoid with an Atari paddle controller is a game-changer! It’s amazing how that control setup elevates the experience. And I totally get the love for Galway’s audio-it really rounds out the package. Glad it’s become a go-to on your SD2IEC!
@@FloppyDeepDive Yeah, I would have enjoyed it back then as I still had my VCS on top of the wardrobe but this was a period where no amount of pocket money was enough to get all the good C64 games each month coming out. The sfx are particularly lovely too. I'd say it's a more enhanced experience than the arcade if you ignore the lower resolution of C64 multicolor mode. The joystick mode is not too bad either with something like the Euromax Zipstik.
The Apple II was essential to the medium of video games. It may have not been the “best” machine when compared to the c64. But you cannot deny that without it, the video game world may have ended up quite different indeed.
Absolutely agree! The Apple II was a trailblazer and helped shape the early gaming landscape. Without it, the industry might look completely different today. It may not have had the power of the C64, but it definitely had a massive impact. That's why I love playing these games! A lot of them released first on the Apple II.
Cool comparison. I only recently acquired an Apple IIe. They are great computers but for games I always lean to the C64 because that is what I had as a kid. In High School the only Apple IIs in the school were in the Library. Our computer lab was dominated by PETs and TRS-80 Model IIIs. But for education type software and productivity it is tough to beat the Apple IIe with 80 columns and expansion cards. A cool computer for its purposes.
Solo habia Apple en colegios porque se los regalaban para que los niños que los utilizaban se lo pidieran luego a sus padres y asi cobraban mas del doble que con un C64. Un tactica muy sucia de Jobs para vender, propia de un traficante de drogas.
Thanks, brother! They are fun to mess around on, for sure! I haven't made a video about it since March 2023, so it was time to power it up! Have a good one!
Arkanoid on the C64 was great. The Joystick controls were terrible, but if you used paddles it was super smooth. Made it quite far on the C64 using paddles and later finished it on the Amiga with mouse controls. Better than the joystick on the C64 but not quite as good as the paddles.
It’s great to hear how using paddles on the C64 made Arkanoid a smoother experience! The joystick controls could indeed be challenging, but paddles really helped to bring that arcade feel home. And finishing it on the Amiga with a mouse-nice progression! It’s cool to see how different systems and controllers could enhance gameplay. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Not seen most of these, I wonder how many got a release in the UK? Arkanoid was written in the UK and published by Imagine. I had that and at the time would've had paddles but weirdly i can't remember using them for anything but a submarine cartridge from Commodore which I can't remember the name of. Apple Cider Spider looks fun I'll have to check that out. Your spider looks like a hand puppet 🙂 The Apple II was the first home computer I ever saw as my dad had one for business. I thought all computers would look like that. And then i saw my friends zx81. Not quite the same 🙂
That's a great memory about the Apple II being your first computer experience! And yes, the spider in Apple Cider Spider does have that puppet-like quality to it - makes the game pretty charming. Regarding the submarine game with paddles you mentioned, could it have been "In The Chips" or "Sea Wolf"? Those were popular Commodore games that used paddles. The UK gaming scene was really unique during that era, with companies like Imagine bringing out some fantastic titles like Arkanoid.
@@FloppyDeepDive Sea Wolf was the one! Thanks for reminding me. UK companies bought up so many rights to arcade games and films as sadly these tended to sell the best regardless of quality but like you say we did get some gems 🙂
I wonder what is up with the controls in Arkanoid? When I saw that, I was thinking that the Apple II joystick, being a potentiometer, should be much better for this type of game. I was wondering if maybe something was wrong with your joystick, so I just fired up my //e, went to Arkanoid in Total Recall, started a game and it asked me to move my joystick to the right to calibrate it. I did that. Fired. Game started and... Yeah, those controls are ALL MESSED UP... What is up with that? That should have been a plus for the Apple //e right there... I suppose it might be both of our joysticks, as they are old and potentiometers can be problematic with age, but I haven't noticed issues in other games. Of course, a lot of games use the potentiometer as a switch, so it might be more forgiving. I need to test with some games that use it for the range... Hmmmm.... BTW, another great vid! You just mentioned a few more control issues... I wonder if our old potentiometer based Apple joysticks need some cleaning....
Yeah, the controls in Arkanoid on the Apple IIe are really odd, especially since you’d think the potentiometer joystick would make it smoother. It sounds like both of us experienced similar issues, so it might be a quirk of the game or the hardware aging. Definitely worth trying a little cleaning or testing with other games that use the full range. Thanks for checking it out, and glad you enjoyed the video!
@@FloppyDeepDive I was just doing some more testing and I found two things out. 1: I apparently got the instructions wrong the first time I tried it. It said to move the joystick all the way to the left, hit a button, then move it all the way to the right and hit a button. I don't remember reading that the first time and I'm sure I didn't do that. So if you test it again, really watch that instruction. 2: I did spray some contact cleaner in the pots. (I did have to take my joystick apart to get access.) There is still some jitter, but it is much more playable now.
That’s a great question! It’s possible that I ended up playing the PAL version on my NTSC setup, which would explain the faster tempo. The C64 definitely had those quirks depending on the region, and it makes for an interesting comparison between the two formats.
No comparison. The Apple hardware is extremely crude and most games have very uneven framerates because of all the software rendering and 1-bit speaker manipulation required. The C64 is a dream by comparison.
You nailed it! The C64 definitely had a huge advantage with its dedicated graphics and sound chips, making it much smoother for gaming. The Apple II’s limitations with framerate and sound really stand out in comparison. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Both of these systems were instrumental to the early personal computer market. Both are legends. The c64, with its great sound and graphics, is the highlight in these games. If you compared them for expansion and productivity though the Apple IIe wins easily.
@@jkeelsnc Well said! Both systems definitely made their mark, with the C64 excelling in games and multimedia, while the Apple IIe brought a lot to the table for productivity and expansion. It’s fascinating to see how each carved out its niche in the personal computer market. Thanks for sharing your perspective!
I can totally relate! The C64 definitely had more going on for games, but Turbo Pascal on CP/M sounds like a fun way to pass the time on the Apple IIe. It’s always cool to hear about how different people used these classic systems. Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely, that’s one of the key differences! The C64’s SID chip gave it a huge advantage in sound capabilities, and the graphics hardware allowed for smoother bitmapping, which really set it apart for gaming.
@ originally every apple II came with a pair of paddles, because Steve W. Like breakout so much, and the basic manual that came with the system had a listing for a breakout game in it.
Overall, the C64 was way better for gaming, but there are a number of games that never made it to the C64 and some really great Apple ][ exclusives, like Bolo or Chivalry or Swashbuckler. Chivalry was the first "Mario Party" type game, and a real blast as far as classroom experiences went. The C64 was unfairly denied ports of Prince of Persia and King's Quest. Also, early on a lot of top tier CRPGs came to the Apple ][ before the C64, although Ultima IV was the turning point on that.
Great points! The Apple II did have some fantastic exclusives that added unique value to the platform, especially with games like Bolo and Chivalry-those classroom memories are unforgettable! It’s a shame the C64 missed out on Prince of Persia and King’s Quest ports, as those would have been incredible additions. And you’re right, early CRPGs favored the Apple II, making it the go-to system for RPG fans before the C64 caught up with titles like Ultima IV. Always great to hear from you Isaac!
About the only Apple //e games that hammer the C64 are Prince of Persia and AirHeart. Granted, they require 128K and an extra graphics card too (or a //c, and for that money just get an Amiga). Apple graphics addressing is twice as insane with the graphics card- I mean, it is horrible. That said, search for Apple AirHeart and it is at least as good as the Atari ST version. An example of max pushing of the hardware, when you have added extra hardware to the Apple of course. Still, amazeballs for a 1MHz 6502. BTW on the Amiga it's called: Typhoon Thompson In Search For The Sea Child.
Haha, you make a great point! The C64’s “brownchromatic” palette definitely brings more richness than the Apple II’s limited colors. It’s always fun to look back and see just how far graphics capabilities have come. Thanks for watching and sharing the insight!
There are plenty of games where the Apple's 6 colors were fine compared to the straightforward C64 port. Conan, Dino Eggs, Drol, Hard Hat Mack, Julius Erving and Larry Bird Go One-on-One, Lode Runner, Skyfox, and many others ... the colors were fine.
@@FloppyDeepDive I sometimes prefer the dayglo colors of the Apple (though having only 6 colors sucked). Right down the the insane fringing and absurd limitations on how colors could be placed. The C64 colors were a bit crap but one could just hit the saturation knob.
@@saganandroid4175 This knob wouldn’t do much on this side of Atlantic - C64 PAL colors were just washed-out purple and few shades of brown. On the other hand, Apple II in PAL had proper color only after PAL version of IIe hooked up to AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe A2M6021 (but not on AppleColor Composite Monitor A2M6020). In truth, there was an earlier Apple PAL Color Encoder Card A2B0017 for Europlus Slot 7, but that was very rare, and AFAIK Apple didn’t had monitor for it, one had to use something like SKANTIC 3781 or similar.
Totally agree! The C64 was unbeatable for games, and the SID chip was a gem for music. But for productivity and other tasks, Apple really held its own. Best of both worlds!
The Apple relied on doing tricks to pull of colour artifacts that weren't completely controllable, so it was unreliable especially when mixing graphics and text.
Exactly! The color artifacting tricks on the Apple II were clever but often unpredictable. Mixing graphics and text could sometimes lead to a mess, especially without the precise control you’d get on other systems like the C64.
We had computer class and had to use Apple IIC and IIE. I had a C64 and was completely familiar with C64 basic. Apple basic was inferior to C64. Especially sprite creation. It sucked. Everything about C64 was better - except Apple's disk drives. Those things were fast.
Sounds like you got the best of both worlds in your computer class! C64 BASIC and sprite creation were definitely ahead of the Apple, but you’re right-those Apple disk drives were impressively quick. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Oh come on, C64 basic was weak. Is was missing commands for more than half of the computer’s features, at least apple basic supported the computers hardware. I love my 64 but really the basic implementation was rather poor.
Controls are just about everything to me when playing any game. I want the challenge to be me against the game. Not me against the controls. So, Apple does not always shine as well as it could if we're dealing with non-keyboard controlled games. Better high-end controllers do help quite a bit for Apple. Not that it would have changed the end result of your review. Apple is kind of clunky.
Absolutely agree-controls can make or break the gaming experience. The Apple II’s setup often felt clunky compared to the C64, especially when it came to non-keyboard games. Having better controllers would have helped, but the C64 still had an edge with smoother control responses overall.
Haha, the Atari 800XL definitely has its charm! I can’t argue with that-it was a solid machine with some great games. Thanks for sharing your preference! That’s another video series! lol
Es difícil estar en desacuerdo contigo. El C64 tenía una gran ventaja en sonido, gráficos con sprites y su extensa biblioteca de software y juegos. El chip SID por sí solo lo hacía destacar en música, y la vibrante comunidad de jugadores continuó ampliando sus ofertas de software. ¡Gracias por compartir tus pensamientos!
I bought an Apple 2e back in the day and took it back a week later as yeah, games sucked in it. Apple coulda be even more successful if they’d paid any attention to gaming back then
I totally get that! Apple seemed to focus more on education and productivity, which was great, but it did hold them back in the gaming arena. Imagine if they’d invested in gaming back then-their legacy could have been so different!
My feelings comparing these two computers has always been that while the C64 beats the Apple II for games hands down, the Apple II is a far better games machine than the C64 is a business machine. So for an all rounder in your home study in the 80s, I reckon the Apple IIe or IIc would have been the better choice.
The Apple IIe is basically a C64 with no ASICs. The C64 has the same processor, higher-res. It's better than the Apple II line in every regard but the ROM routines for disk IO were slow.
@@saganandroid4175 The Apple IIe had the following real world advantages over the Commodore 64: 1) 80 column mode 2) Fast floppy disk read and write 3) Bundled BASIC interpreter with commands that directly supported graphics 4) A large library of educational and business orientated applications None of these things were the the case with the C64, which hampered it's use as a serious computer for the average home user. The first three points were rectified with the excellent Commodore 128, which was probably a fairer comparison for the Apple IIe. But unfortunately point 4 never really came to fruition, unless you count CP/M software (which the Apple IIe also had access to with a Z80 card). I will say that GEOS (and it's integrated office suite) for the C128 would have probably been enough for most home users, but the disk access would have been too slow on the C64 for me. I own a C64 today and use it regularly. It's easily my favourite 8-bit computer. But I never used one in the 80s for anything but games. Maybe there's much I've missed.
@@daishi5571 It pains me to say this, but, the Apple II line was more expandable- but only because it had to be. They could swap larger banks of memory than the C64 and they had a primitive quasi-standards for multiple cards being mapped in with their own support ROMs. Commodore should have learned from this before the Vic-20. But yeah overall the C64 was a better machine.
how was the apple better for games back in the day? Neither were that great but the c64 was better and cheaper for games, I do not know about productive stuff for a job, but it was the the mid 80s for them.
when I went to school even with the early IBM computers for well games everthing looked horrible(none were great) compared to the c64. I had a c64 for years before getting a Nintendo for games. Only thing I did not like about the c64 was the color pallet.
only thing apple had was the school system. every school had apples idk I was to young to remember but from my home experience. One won and the other did not. Not sure how but. look at geos on a upgraded commodore but it was to late for them something was already established in US schools.
You make some great points about the gaming capabilities of the C64 vs. the Apple! The C64 really had a strong edge in home gaming, both in affordability and graphics quality. Apple’s dominance in schools definitely came down to education-focused software and early adoption in the educational system, which helped it take root in classrooms. The color palette critique is understandable; it wasn’t everyone’s favorite, but the C64’s charm came through in its unique look. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Good point! The analogue controller on the Apple II could definitely explain the control issues-it’s just not as precise as digital for games like Arkanoid. Thanks for shedding some light on that!
@@FloppyDeepDive A couple of those games were probably intended for paddles and not the Apple II's analog joystick as mentioned. Flight games were better controlled on the Apple II for the same reason (analog stick).
Yeah... C64 is so graphically superior and with dedicated sound chip.. there is no comparison in action game area. only RPG can be comparable between two computers.
Absolutely! The C64’s graphics and sound chip really set it apart in action games, where it shines. RPGs are probably the only genre where the Apple II can hold its own. Thanks for the great insight!
Da hast du recht! Der C64 war definitiv günstiger und dadurch viel weiter verbreitet. Für viele war es der Einstieg in die Welt der Computer. Der Apple II hatte jedoch seine Stärken, vor allem in der Produktivität. Beide Systeme haben ihre besonderen Plätze in der Geschichte der Computer.
Haha, you got me! Guess I missed out on the classics this time around. Maybe I’ll have to make a follow-up video with those iconic games. Thanks for the reminder! 😆
I was an Apple II+ guy. The 64 had better graphics and sound, no contest for gaming. But when it came to spreadsheets, word processors, graphing programs and just about anything else Apple had it covered. I had no issue gaming on the Apple. A lot of the games then had such basic graphics that the difference did not really affect gameplay. And the best games were available on both.
It’s great to hear about your experience with the Apple II+! It really was a versatile system for productivity, and you’re right-Apple excelled in areas like word processing and spreadsheets. Gaming might not have been its strong suit compared to the C64, but as you said, many of the best games were cross-platform. Which game did you enjoy most on the Apple II+?
It makes sense the C-64 looked and sounded better than the Apple II.
The IIe while enhanced, still has it's architecture based on the original that was released in 1977, so it doesn't have many of the more modern hardware the C64 had. But, considering how old the foundation of the Apple was, it is remarkable that it continued to sell systems until 1993
As for your joystick concerns, it sounds like the joystick was out of alignment. The Apple II joystick is analog, and the potentiometers for both axis needs calibration quite frequently. The following is a quick BASIC program I'd type out to calibrate a joystick
10 PRINT PDL (0), PDL (1)
20 GOTO 10
RUN
This will generate two columns of numbers, the goal is to adjust the potentiometers on each axis till it is as close to 127 as possible. Depending on the model of joystick, the adjustment mechanism might be a plastic tab, or a knob or a screw.
I agree the joystick control on the Apple II Arkanoid just isn't playable. It does support a mouse, which has much improved control, but that requires an add on card and mouse.
It’s fascinating how the Apple II’s architecture, dating back to 1977, managed to remain competitive and even sell systems up until 1993! It really shows how robust that foundation was. While the C64 had a clear edge in sound and visuals, the Apple II still carved its own unique space in computing history. Thanks for sharing your insights!
Great tip on calibrating the Apple II joystick! I hadn’t thought about the analog nature requiring frequent calibration-that BASIC program you shared is a fantastic solution. I completely agree about Arkanoid on the Apple II; the joystick really hinders the experience, but I didn’t realize it supported mouse input with an add-on card. That’s a neat workaround for those who have the setup!
@@FloppyDeepDive It's a bit easier if you have a IIc or IIGS with built in mouse controls. You just need to get a proper mouse for them
That said, the IIGS version of Arkanoid II is fantastic!
I remember my friends Apple with green and black screen and tick tick blip blip sounds for games like Moebius by Origin and Auto Duel. His system was HUGE too. Mostly used by his father for business.
The green and black screens on those early Apples were so memorable, and those “tick tick blip blip” sounds are classic! It’s funny how these computers were huge back then and often used for business, yet they managed to provide so much entertainment with games like Moebius and Auto Duel.
Oh look, there's no question the C64 bests the Apple II in terms of gaming. I had both, first the Apple then the C64 and once I got my 64 I rarely booted up the Apple. But having said that, for the first home computer in the late 70's, the Apple II was simply amazing. Compared, for example to the Atari 2600 I would choose the Apple, so I am glad my system progression went Apple II > C64. (Then Amiga.. and what a system that was!)
Sounds like you had an incredible journey through the evolution of home computing! The Apple II was a powerhouse for its time, especially in productivity, but the C64 truly shined when it came to gaming. And moving on to the Amiga after that-what a lineup! Each system had its own strengths, and it’s great to hear how each fit into your progression. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@FloppyDeepDive Yes each system had its own strengths just as you say, and the Apple II although not as powerful or proficient for gaming has a quirky charm about it not quite like any other system. I'm just glad we were around in those times to experience the pioneering days of computing and gaming! :)
@@FloppyDeepDive The Radio Shack TRS-80 and Commodore PET were both on the market in 1977, not just the Apple. The TRS-80 and PET even came with a monitor, unlike the Apple. I love my Apple IIe and my Commodore 64 equally... and my Tandy 1000
Absolutely, you’re spot on! The TRS-80 and PET were also pioneers alongside the Apple II in 1977, each with unique setups like the PET’s built-in monitor. Sounds like you have an awesome collection-Apple IIe, C64, and a Tandy 1000!
@@RadRat78 I'd prefer a PET any day over an Apple, but there were so many PETs and CBMs.
Not much of a contest here, the C64 obviously blows the Apple out of the water; except for Lemonade Stand maybe. 🤔
Haha, totally agree! The C64 has so much going for it that it’s hard for the Apple to keep up. But yeah, Lemonade Stand definitely has its charm-simple yet addictive! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Given that the C64 had something like 4-5 years newer graphics and a sound chip, that's no surprise. The Apple ][ was arguably better for RPG games though since the floppy load times were dramatically faster than the C64, and fast animation isn't as important in something like the early Ultima games or Bard's Tale. Infocom games didn't take *minutes* to load on the Apple ][ either.
@ By the late 80’s, I discovered the Apple ][ was only good at one thing: word processing & educational applications. Which was its initial purpose in life, it wasn’t designed with games in mind.
Just recently, I thought about building an Apple ][e from scratch, just to see it power on successfully; and run Oregon Trail.
But later on, remembering about the very primitive graphics and lack of sound, I built a C64 EVO instead.
It seems an Apple ][ can’t get sold for any price on EBay.
I found an Apple ][e for sale on EBay, for not a bad price. It included lots of cards, especially a very expensive (when new) sound card! 😮 Unfortunately the high end sound card only worked for software written for it.
I wasn’t sold on it, the graphics and processing power still sucked on it. The EVO 64 was more worth the money.
Now I’m into the Atari 800XL computers, I have an NTSC and Freddie PAL. I repaired both, and have all the sweetest upgrades.
I’m having a blast with these Atari computer games and demo’s, that are actually comparable to the C64.
Sounds like you’ve been on an awesome retro journey! The C64 EVO was a solid choice-definitely brings back the feel of the original with some modern upgrades. And the Atari 800XL lineup has some gems that hold their own against the C64. Glad you’re enjoying those demos and games; nothing beats experiencing them on the real hardware!
I saw Arctic Fox on the Amiga in 1985 at a computer user group meeting. I was blown away. I got my first Amiga 500 in 1989 (I gave up a trip to Disney World to get it. I played Falcon F16, Gunship, Dragon's Lair and Zack McKracken that summer on it. It Came From The Desert was mind blowing when it came out. Gunship 2000 eventually came out for the Amiga (had a A3000 by then) and I played that one to death along with Pinball Dreams and Pinball Fantasies (I was then encouraged to play real pinball and eventually made 34 recreations on VP/VPM in the early 2000s as PacDude.)
@@VonMagXL What an amazing journey with the Amiga! Giving up a Disney trip for an Amiga 500 shows true dedication, and it sounds like it was absolutely worth it. Falcon, Gunship, Dragon’s Lair, and Zack McKracken are all such legendary titles, and It Came From The Desert really did push the boundaries of what the Amiga could do. And moving on to pinball recreations in the 2000s? That’s impressive! Thanks for sharing such a fantastic story!
@FloppyDeepDive Technically, the C64 and Vic20 before that were my brother's, but I probably spent more time playing games on them. I went back in the 90s while he was on a trip and finally beat Impossible Mission, The Asylum, The Institute, Dallas Quest and several others. More recebtly, I just completed Ultima I and II on a C64 emulator and Lairware Ultima III on my old 2012 Mac Mini. I've got the fan made Ultima IV and V cartridges (no disk swapping and C128 music on Ultima V) ready to go. I also remapped the emulation keyboard to use modern arrow keys, etc to control the movement). I bought the Ultima 1-8 collection before so I don't feel bad about playing downloaded fan cartridges.
Sounds like you’ve had some epic gaming sessions on those classic titles! Beating Impossible Mission and Dallas Quest must have been so satisfying. And playing the Ultima series with fan cartridges and modernized controls is a fantastic way to relive those adventures-especially with that C128 music enhancement. The dedication shows!
As pointed out before. c64 beats due to being newer. However, I'm still amazed at the used APPLE II plus my parents purchased me. Really nice green screen monitor. TV color though seemed to suck. Years later I found out you could get an RGB card / monitor for it and even a sound card. Though only a hand full of games used it. Though during that time. All computers was investments. You just continued adding stuff to it. I was blown away seeing a c64 using what a 1701 monitor compared to a tv.
It’s interesting to hear how much you could upgrade an Apple II over time, especially with options like RGB cards and sound cards-even if they were limited in use. Those green screen monitors had a distinct feel, didn’t they? The C64’s ability to connect to a monitor like the 1701 really did make a difference compared to standard TVs at the time. There was something special about seeing those vibrant colors and smoother graphics on a dedicated monitor. Thanks for sharing this nostalgic insight!
The C64 came out in 1982. The IIe came out in 1983.
@@saganandroid4175 Yes, this make is all very exciting. I try to keep software / hardware separate. But, hard to ignore when one system has a sound chip in it and the other does not. My personal fav. was the Atari 7800. Really wish they used a sound chip in it. Being 10 in 1985. The sound on the NES and C64 blew me away.
How does the IIe coming out a year after the C64 make the C64 "newer"? Enjoy your monochrome monitor BWHAHA.
@@saganandroid4175 Yes, i really enjoyed that monitor. Oh and I was talking about a II+. The enhancements on a IIe was not enough to beat the C64.
C64 has the better specs, and I think you actually went easy on the Apple II with your game selections as these games are actually somewhat comparable in some respects :) although the C64 has much better sound. That said the Apple II is an amazing home computer that came out earlier and has so much nostalgia for me - we had a ton of games for it (thanks to my cousin) and a green monochrome display - it was so much fun. I used to play a game that looked quite similar to Arctic Fox on the Apple II which is called Stellar 7 and I've played Arkanoid and Axis Assassin. These are probably my two favourite computer systems of the time and I have only praise and nostalgia for both of them!
Thanks for sharing that! The nostalgia for both the C64 and the Apple II is real-I love hearing about others’ journeys with these classic systems. Stellar 7 is a great comparison to Arctic Fox! They each have their charm, and it’s awesome to see how these systems shaped our love for gaming.
I forgot how good Arkaniod looked on the C64.
Right! It’s so good.
While there is nothing wrong with most of the games shown here on the Apple II, when shown side by side against the C64 it does show that despite being release after the C64 it was far less powerful with the IIe graphics that rely on artifacts that are a kluge that don't work as a reliable system and sound that is poor also.
There are only two Apple II products worthwhile, the original II It was a torch bearer for what was to come in computing (it did this along side The PET and the TRS 80) incredible flexible. Then the GS (which while not the prolific system some people claim it as) Which while arriving too late for the specs, carried the II product line with a more refined and better everything. The IIGS is the only Apple product I would want even today and I have owned a number of Macs (mostly 68K variants and a PPC) which have all been a disappointment.
The C64 pulled off the impossible with what it has done. I didn't program on the C64 as I didn't like the 6502 CPU (IIe included) but I was impressed with what was possible on that system with custom graphics and sound chips.
Great points! The C64 really did maximize its capabilities with custom graphics and sound, creating experiences that still stand out today. I agree, the original Apple II was revolutionary for its time, and the IIgs took that legacy forward with some solid enhancements. It’s fascinating to look back and see how each system carved its own unique path in computing history.
ALF ---> Apple Lacks Fun :P
Lol 😆. Apple had its place. I love messing around with it. Thanks for Watching!
My gaming journey was long but wonderful. Started with the Atari 2600 at 7 years of age. Then got a Commodore Vic20 for about a year. Then the big one and still my favourite machine EVER on Xmas morning 1985 - my Commodore 64 breadbin model. Had that for about 3 years then progressed onto the AtariST 520STFM. Had that for about 2 years then moved onto the Amiga. Coming from the Atari ST it wasn't really such a big leap. Didnt have it too long before I went PC master race and been there ever since. Any Apple product was never really in my thought process. The best thing about PC is that through emulation you can carry all your gaming past and memories with you.
It sounds like you had an amazing journey through the evolution of gaming! From the Atari 2600 to the C64 and then the Atari ST and Amiga-that’s a path filled with classic memories. The “breadbin” C64 on Christmas morning must have been unforgettable! Emulation on PC really does let us keep all those memories alive and accessible. Thanks for sharing your story!
We had an apple at school and a few years later got a C64 at home.
Apple seemed ok at the time. I kind of like the the odd way Apple handled colors - white colors would have colored artifacts around them. It was charming! Especially noticeable on games like Choplifter.
I enjoyed seeing the tempest close - it looks great on the Apple and I wonder if it used a certain color mode for that one.
Thanks for sharing that! Axis Assassin definitely had its own look on the Apple II, and those unique color artifacts added a lot of charm, especially in games like Choplifter. It’s always fascinating how each system’s quirks made the games feel distinct. Really appreciate hearing about your experience with both systems!
I used my Atari Paddle controller, when I played Arkanoid on the C64, since it's supported by the game. It works great and plays as smoothly as the arcade. 😃👍
@QuantumYouth Cool. Gonna give that a try :)
That’s awesome! Using the Atari Paddle with Arkanoid on the C64 sounds like the perfect setup. Glad to hear it worked so smoothly-nothing like bringing that arcade feel home! Thanks for sharing! 👍😊
I share the same vibe as most of the others in the comments here.
Not much of a competition.
The Commodore surpasses in pretty much every area, graphics, sound, gameplay etc.
However, it's still incredible to see the same games on the Apple II and how they appear.
For anyone who grew up with one, they were still able to play and experience these games in 'some' way.
That's kinda cool.
I agree, there’s definitely something special about being able to experience those same games on both platforms, even if the Commodore tends to outperform in most areas. It’s incredible to see how each system handled these games in its unique way. Growing up with either one gave people a chance to play and enjoy in their own style. That’s the magic of retro gaming-different approaches, same nostalgic vibes!
@FloppyDeepDive well said 👍
I never had an Apple or even knew anyone who did, so I've only played Apple games via emulation. In general, I find that the C64 has better graphics, better sound, better animation, and better gameplay. Of course there are exceptions, but Apple games often seem clunky to me.
Arkanoid - I played this on the C64, using a set of Atari paddles, which worked great. I'm still pissed that they removed the paddle option in the sequel, in favor of mouse control. Using a mouse is better than a joystick, but is still inferior to a paddle. The Apple version also seems to be missing the random enemies that come out of the hatches at the top.
Axis Assassin - I liked it, but the fact that you could flip the shooter over and fire towards the screen was both a blessing and a curse. While it was good for shooting stuff on the very edge, I would often accidentally flip it over when I didn't mean to.
Great insights! It’s amazing how the paddle on the C64 makes Arkanoid feel so smooth. I totally get the frustration about losing the paddle option in the sequel-nothing quite matches that level of control. And yeah, Axis Assassin’s flip mechanic can be a bit of a double-edged sword. Thanks for sharing your experiences with these games!
It's worth noting that the North American C64 release of Arkanoid supported, not only the paddles, but the 1351 mouse. Most cracked versions of Arkanoid are from the Euro version, which does not support the 1351. And I've also found cracks of the US version where the cracking team deliberately removed 1351 support!
That’s fascinating! I didn’t realize the North American version had that 1351 mouse support, while the European version didn’t. It’s wild how some cracks even removed that compatibility. Really adds another layer to how these versions differed-thanks for sharing that insight!
Systems look surprisingly close here, but those are just games that exist for both of them. There are many superb c64 games that Apple 2 could never hope of pulling them off.
Absolutely! While there are some great cross-platform titles, the C64 really had some exclusive gems that pushed its hardware to the max.
Love to play Arkanoid on my C64 using the Atari Paddle controller. Works great!
Using the Atari Paddle controller with Arkanoid on the C64 sounds like the perfect combo! That precise control must make the gameplay even more enjoyable. It’s always awesome to see different retro hardware pieces complementing each other so well.
The problem is most Apple II computers came with a monochrome screen. They were sold mostly to businesses, schools and universities geared for education not gaming, but many students made fascinating home brew games and ports for them.
Absolutely! The monochrome screens and educational focus definitely shaped how the Apple II was used. It’s amazing how creative students got with those limitations, pushing the boundaries with homebrew games and making the most of the hardware.
I never bought Arkanoid at the time, so many games to spend my pocket money on and it seemed like a simple game vs my other options. When I did play it half a decade ago with an Atari paddle controller it instantly became my favourite bat n ball type game and the only one I fire up now on my SD2IEC because of the paddle controller support. The superlative audio by Galway just completes the package for me and I prefer it to the Amiga port even.
Arkanoid with an Atari paddle controller is a game-changer! It’s amazing how that control setup elevates the experience. And I totally get the love for Galway’s audio-it really rounds out the package. Glad it’s become a go-to on your SD2IEC!
@@FloppyDeepDive Yeah, I would have enjoyed it back then as I still had my VCS on top of the wardrobe but this was a period where no amount of pocket money was enough to get all the good C64 games each month coming out. The sfx are particularly lovely too. I'd say it's a more enhanced experience than the arcade if you ignore the lower resolution of C64 multicolor mode. The joystick mode is not too bad either with something like the Euromax Zipstik.
I played Arkanoid on my C128D with a mouse, went very well.
I need to break out my C128 and mouse and give it a go!
@FloppyDeepDive ofcourse you can connect the mouse also with your C64.
The Apple II was essential to the medium of video games. It may have not been the “best” machine when compared to the c64. But you cannot deny that without it, the video game world may have ended up quite different indeed.
Absolutely agree! The Apple II was a trailblazer and helped shape the early gaming landscape. Without it, the industry might look completely different today. It may not have had the power of the C64, but it definitely had a massive impact. That's why I love playing these games! A lot of them released first on the Apple II.
Cool comparison. I only recently acquired an Apple IIe. They are great computers but for games I always lean to the C64 because that is what I had as a kid. In High School the only Apple IIs in the school were in the Library. Our computer lab was dominated by PETs and TRS-80 Model IIIs. But for education type software and productivity it is tough to beat the Apple IIe with 80 columns and expansion cards. A cool computer for its purposes.
Solo habia Apple en colegios porque se los regalaban para que los niños que los utilizaban se lo pidieran luego a sus padres y asi cobraban mas del doble que con un C64. Un tactica muy sucia de Jobs para vender, propia de un traficante de drogas.
Thanks, brother! They are fun to mess around on, for sure! I haven't made a video about it since March 2023, so it was time to power it up! Have a good one!
Arkanoid on the C64 was great. The Joystick controls were terrible, but if you used paddles it was super smooth.
Made it quite far on the C64 using paddles and later finished it on the Amiga with mouse controls.
Better than the joystick on the C64 but not quite as good as the paddles.
It’s great to hear how using paddles on the C64 made Arkanoid a smoother experience! The joystick controls could indeed be challenging, but paddles really helped to bring that arcade feel home. And finishing it on the Amiga with a mouse-nice progression! It’s cool to see how different systems and controllers could enhance gameplay. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Not seen most of these, I wonder how many got a release in the UK? Arkanoid was written in the UK and published by Imagine. I had that and at the time would've had paddles but weirdly i can't remember using them for anything but a submarine cartridge from Commodore which I can't remember the name of. Apple Cider Spider looks fun I'll have to check that out. Your spider looks like a hand puppet 🙂
The Apple II was the first home computer I ever saw as my dad had one for business. I thought all computers would look like that. And then i saw my friends zx81. Not quite the same 🙂
That's a great memory about the Apple II being your first computer experience! And yes, the spider in Apple Cider Spider does have that puppet-like quality to it - makes the game pretty charming. Regarding the submarine game with paddles you mentioned, could it have been "In The Chips" or "Sea Wolf"? Those were popular Commodore games that used paddles. The UK gaming scene was really unique during that era, with companies like Imagine bringing out some fantastic titles like Arkanoid.
@@FloppyDeepDive Sea Wolf was the one! Thanks for reminding me. UK companies bought up so many rights to arcade games and films as sadly these tended to sell the best regardless of quality but like you say we did get some gems 🙂
I wonder what is up with the controls in Arkanoid?
When I saw that, I was thinking that the Apple II joystick, being a potentiometer, should be much better for this type of game.
I was wondering if maybe something was wrong with your joystick, so I just fired up my //e, went to Arkanoid in Total Recall, started a game and it asked me to move my joystick to the right to calibrate it. I did that. Fired. Game started and...
Yeah, those controls are ALL MESSED UP...
What is up with that? That should have been a plus for the Apple //e right there...
I suppose it might be both of our joysticks, as they are old and potentiometers can be problematic with age, but I haven't noticed issues in other games. Of course, a lot of games use the potentiometer as a switch, so it might be more forgiving. I need to test with some games that use it for the range...
Hmmmm....
BTW, another great vid!
You just mentioned a few more control issues...
I wonder if our old potentiometer based Apple joysticks need some cleaning....
Yeah, the controls in Arkanoid on the Apple IIe are really odd, especially since you’d think the potentiometer joystick would make it smoother. It sounds like both of us experienced similar issues, so it might be a quirk of the game or the hardware aging. Definitely worth trying a little cleaning or testing with other games that use the full range. Thanks for checking it out, and glad you enjoyed the video!
@@FloppyDeepDive I was just doing some more testing and I found two things out.
1: I apparently got the instructions wrong the first time I tried it. It said to move the joystick all the way to the left, hit a button, then move it all the way to the right and hit a button. I don't remember reading that the first time and I'm sure I didn't do that. So if you test it again, really watch that instruction.
2: I did spray some contact cleaner in the pots. (I did have to take my joystick apart to get access.)
There is still some jitter, but it is much more playable now.
The Arkanoid music on the C64 was too fast. Did you play the PAL version on you NTSC device?
That’s a great question! It’s possible that I ended up playing the PAL version on my NTSC setup, which would explain the faster tempo. The C64 definitely had those quirks depending on the region, and it makes for an interesting comparison between the two formats.
No comparison. The Apple hardware is extremely crude and most games have very uneven framerates because of all the software rendering and 1-bit speaker manipulation required. The C64 is a dream by comparison.
You nailed it! The C64 definitely had a huge advantage with its dedicated graphics and sound chips, making it much smoother for gaming. The Apple II’s limitations with framerate and sound really stand out in comparison. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Both of these systems were instrumental to the early personal computer market. Both are legends. The c64, with its great sound and graphics, is the highlight in these games. If you compared them for expansion and productivity though the Apple IIe wins easily.
@@jkeelsnc Well said! Both systems definitely made their mark, with the C64 excelling in games and multimedia, while the Apple IIe brought a lot to the table for productivity and expansion. It’s fascinating to see how each carved out its niche in the personal computer market. Thanks for sharing your perspective!
C64 guy, a friend of mine lend me his Apple 2e for some week. It was boring except Turbo Pascal on CP/M which I used a lot
I can totally relate! The C64 definitely had more going on for games, but Turbo Pascal on CP/M sounds like a fun way to pass the time on the Apple IIe. It’s always cool to hear about how different people used these classic systems. Thanks for sharing!
I could only afford a Vic20. 😢 Radar Rat Race was the only game I had. And endless games typed in from Compute! Magazine.
Nothing wrong with Radar Rat Race! Thanks for Watching!
Real difference is how graphics and bitmaping works. Commodore 64 had an advanced sound chip.
Absolutely, that’s one of the key differences! The C64’s SID chip gave it a huge advantage in sound capabilities, and the graphics hardware allowed for smoother bitmapping, which really set it apart for gaming.
@@FloppyDeepDive I always wondered why Sierra On-line didn't release their quest series' on the 64, was due to its bitmapping
Arkanoid on the apple is best played with that paddle controller
I didn’t know Apple had a paddle controller.
@ originally every apple II came with a pair of paddles, because Steve W. Like breakout so much, and the basic manual that came with the system had a listing for a breakout game in it.
I didn't know that, so cool!
Overall, the C64 was way better for gaming, but there are a number of games that never made it to the C64 and some really great Apple ][ exclusives, like Bolo or Chivalry or Swashbuckler. Chivalry was the first "Mario Party" type game, and a real blast as far as classroom experiences went.
The C64 was unfairly denied ports of Prince of Persia and King's Quest.
Also, early on a lot of top tier CRPGs came to the Apple ][ before the C64, although Ultima IV was the turning point on that.
Great points! The Apple II did have some fantastic exclusives that added unique value to the platform, especially with games like Bolo and Chivalry-those classroom memories are unforgettable! It’s a shame the C64 missed out on Prince of Persia and King’s Quest ports, as those would have been incredible additions. And you’re right, early CRPGs favored the Apple II, making it the go-to system for RPG fans before the C64 caught up with titles like Ultima IV. Always great to hear from you Isaac!
About the only Apple //e games that hammer the C64 are Prince of Persia and AirHeart. Granted, they require 128K and an extra graphics card too (or a //c, and for that money just get an Amiga). Apple graphics addressing is twice as insane with the graphics card- I mean, it is horrible. That said, search for Apple AirHeart and it is at least as good as the Atari ST version. An example of max pushing of the hardware, when you have added extra hardware to the Apple of course. Still, amazeballs for a 1MHz 6502. BTW on the Amiga it's called: Typhoon Thompson In Search For The Sea Child.
Great points and insight! I will check out AirHeart. Thanks for the recommendation
It’s not fair to compare Apple IIe meager 6 colors (ok 15, but in low-res) to Commodore 64 full brownchromatic palette 😉
Haha, you make a great point! The C64’s “brownchromatic” palette definitely brings more richness than the Apple II’s limited colors. It’s always fun to look back and see just how far graphics capabilities have come. Thanks for watching and sharing the insight!
There are plenty of games where the Apple's 6 colors were fine compared to the straightforward C64 port. Conan, Dino Eggs, Drol, Hard Hat Mack, Julius Erving and Larry Bird Go One-on-One, Lode Runner, Skyfox, and many others ... the colors were fine.
@@FloppyDeepDive I sometimes prefer the dayglo colors of the Apple (though having only 6 colors sucked). Right down the the insane fringing and absurd limitations on how colors could be placed. The C64 colors were a bit crap but one could just hit the saturation knob.
Agree! 👍🏻
@@saganandroid4175 This knob wouldn’t do much on this side of Atlantic - C64 PAL colors were just washed-out purple and few shades of brown. On the other hand, Apple II in PAL had proper color only after PAL version of IIe hooked up to AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe A2M6021 (but not on AppleColor Composite Monitor A2M6020). In truth, there was an earlier Apple PAL Color Encoder Card A2B0017 for Europlus Slot 7, but that was very rare, and AFAIK Apple didn’t had monitor for it, one had to use something like SKANTIC 3781 or similar.
Games - c64 everyday. Everything else (except music) - Apple!
Totally agree! The C64 was unbeatable for games, and the SID chip was a gem for music. But for productivity and other tasks, Apple really held its own. Best of both worlds!
Commodore. Much better color and sound. And carts.
And everything else too.
Well maybe not everything. C=64 was cheaper.
Amen!
Commodore 64 graphics look sharper, looking at the text.
The C64’s graphics definitely have a crispness to them, especially when it comes to text. That extra sharpness really stands out!
The Apple relied on doing tricks to pull of colour artifacts that weren't completely controllable, so it was unreliable especially when mixing graphics and text.
Exactly! The color artifacting tricks on the Apple II were clever but often unpredictable. Mixing graphics and text could sometimes lead to a mess, especially without the precise control you’d get on other systems like the C64.
We had computer class and had to use Apple IIC and IIE. I had a C64 and was completely familiar with C64 basic. Apple basic was inferior to C64. Especially sprite creation. It sucked. Everything about C64 was better - except Apple's disk drives. Those things were fast.
Sounds like you got the best of both worlds in your computer class! C64 BASIC and sprite creation were definitely ahead of the Apple, but you’re right-those Apple disk drives were impressively quick. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Oh come on, C64 basic was weak. Is was missing commands for more than half of the computer’s features, at least apple basic supported the computers hardware. I love my 64 but really the basic implementation was rather poor.
Controls are just about everything to me when playing any game. I want the challenge to be me against the game. Not me against the controls. So, Apple does not always shine as well as it could if we're dealing with non-keyboard controlled games. Better high-end controllers do help quite a bit for Apple. Not that it would have changed the end result of your review. Apple is kind of clunky.
Absolutely agree-controls can make or break the gaming experience. The Apple II’s setup often felt clunky compared to the C64, especially when it came to non-keyboard games. Having better controllers would have helped, but the C64 still had an edge with smoother control responses overall.
Between the commodore and the apple, id have to say my preference is the Atari 800xl !! :)😂
Haha, the Atari 800XL definitely has its charm! I can’t argue with that-it was a solid machine with some great games. Thanks for sharing your preference! That’s another video series! lol
el C64 fue muy superior, en sonido, gráficos con sprites, biblioteca infinita de software y juegos
Es difícil estar en desacuerdo contigo. El C64 tenía una gran ventaja en sonido, gráficos con sprites y su extensa biblioteca de software y juegos. El chip SID por sí solo lo hacía destacar en música, y la vibrante comunidad de jugadores continuó ampliando sus ofertas de software. ¡Gracias por compartir tus pensamientos!
I bought an Apple 2e back in the day and took it back a week later as yeah, games sucked in it. Apple coulda be even more successful if they’d paid any attention to gaming back then
I totally get that! Apple seemed to focus more on education and productivity, which was great, but it did hold them back in the gaming arena. Imagine if they’d invested in gaming back then-their legacy could have been so different!
My feelings comparing these two computers has always been that while the C64 beats the Apple II for games hands down, the Apple II is a far better games machine than the C64 is a business machine. So for an all rounder in your home study in the 80s, I reckon the Apple IIe or IIc would have been the better choice.
The Apple IIe is basically a C64 with no ASICs. The C64 has the same processor, higher-res. It's better than the Apple II line in every regard but the ROM routines for disk IO were slow.
@@saganandroid4175 The Apple IIe had the following real world advantages over the Commodore 64:
1) 80 column mode
2) Fast floppy disk read and write
3) Bundled BASIC interpreter with commands that directly supported graphics
4) A large library of educational and business orientated applications
None of these things were the the case with the C64, which hampered it's use as a serious computer for the average home user.
The first three points were rectified with the excellent Commodore 128, which was probably a fairer comparison for the Apple IIe. But unfortunately point 4 never really came to fruition, unless you count CP/M software (which the Apple IIe also had access to with a Z80 card). I will say that GEOS (and it's integrated office suite) for the C128 would have probably been enough for most home users, but the disk access would have been too slow on the C64 for me.
I own a C64 today and use it regularly. It's easily my favourite 8-bit computer. But I never used one in the 80s for anything but games. Maybe there's much I've missed.
Agree, that’s why in this video I used the Apple IIe which came out in 1983.
@@saganandroid4175 Basically there was nothing the IIe could do that the C64 couldn't.
@@daishi5571 It pains me to say this, but, the Apple II line was more expandable- but only because it had to be. They could swap larger banks of memory than the C64 and they had a primitive quasi-standards for multiple cards being mapped in with their own support ROMs. Commodore should have learned from this before the Vic-20. But yeah overall the C64 was a better machine.
how was the apple better for games back in the day? Neither were that great but the c64 was better and cheaper for games, I do not know about productive stuff for a job, but it was the the mid 80s for them.
when I went to school even with the early IBM computers for well games everthing looked horrible(none were great) compared to the c64. I had a c64 for years before getting a Nintendo for games. Only thing I did not like about the c64 was the color pallet.
only thing apple had was the school system. every school had apples idk I was to young to remember but from my home experience. One won and the other did not. Not sure how but. look at geos on a upgraded commodore but it was to late for them something was already established in US schools.
You make some great points about the gaming capabilities of the C64 vs. the Apple! The C64 really had a strong edge in home gaming, both in affordability and graphics quality. Apple’s dominance in schools definitely came down to education-focused software and early adoption in the educational system, which helped it take root in classrooms. The color palette critique is understandable; it wasn’t everyone’s favorite, but the C64’s charm came through in its unique look. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@FloppyDeepDive I feel like the ti/994a tried to do the education software but it really didnt take on like the apple
The Apple used an analogue controller which may explain the poor control you had.
Good point! The analogue controller on the Apple II could definitely explain the control issues-it’s just not as precise as digital for games like Arkanoid. Thanks for shedding some light on that!
@@FloppyDeepDive A couple of those games were probably intended for paddles and not the Apple II's analog joystick as mentioned. Flight games were better controlled on the Apple II for the same reason (analog stick).
analogue like the IBM PC as well, remember being able to use my Apple //e joystick to play Wing Commander (with an adapter) on a 386 PC
Yeah... C64 is so graphically superior and with dedicated sound chip.. there is no comparison in action game area. only RPG can be comparable between two computers.
Absolutely! The C64’s graphics and sound chip really set it apart in action games, where it shines. RPGs are probably the only genre where the Apple II can hold its own. Thanks for the great insight!
Der C64 war billig und hatte deshalb eine grosse Verbreitung.
Aber gegenüber dem Apple II war der C64 ein Kinderspielzeug.
Da hast du recht! Der C64 war definitiv günstiger und dadurch viel weiter verbreitet. Für viele war es der Einstieg in die Welt der Computer. Der Apple II hatte jedoch seine Stärken, vor allem in der Produktivität. Beide Systeme haben ihre besonderen Plätze in der Geschichte der Computer.
Huh no pac man,no donkeykong and even no mario bros?
Shame on you, hahaaa🤣
Haha, you got me! Guess I missed out on the classics this time around. Maybe I’ll have to make a follow-up video with those iconic games. Thanks for the reminder! 😆
Don't use that intro.
Not good for photosensitivity.
I understand - I'll keep that in mind for future videos! Thanks for letting me know.