Violin soundpost from start to finish - Anima di violino dall'inizio alla fine
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2022
- ⬇️⬇️ (English translation below the Italian text) ⬇️⬇️
Prima di fare il ponticello è necessario posizionare l'anima, in modo da poter adattare i piedini tenendo conto delle leggere deformazioni che la necessaria tensione dell'anima causerà alla bombatura della tavola. Per avere un riferimento per il posizionamento io traccio all'interno della tavola la linea del piedino e quelle (speculari) della catena, in modo da non dover tracciare la posizione del ponticello all'esterno. L'anima andrà piazzata lateralmente ad 1 mm all'interno del piede del ponticello, ossia nella posizione corrispondente alla catena, e a 2,5 mm di distanza dal piedino stesso. L'anima dovrà collocarsi senza alcuna tensione ad 1 mm dalla posizione laterale finale, così che una volta portata nella posizione definitiva la tensione sarà corretta. Dovrà essere tenuta ben verticale, ossia parallela alle fasce in tutte le direzioni. La venatura andrà tenuta perpendicolare a quella della tavola. L'adattamento perfetto delle superfici di contatto è di fondamentale importanza sia per la risposta acustica che per prevenire danni strutturali (crepa dell'anima). Questo è il piazzamento che in base alla mia esperienza utilizzo come standard iniziale per tutti i miei violini appena finita la costruzione: è solo un punto di partenza, una messa a punto definitiva potrebbe essere necessaria ma andrà fatta solo quando la montatura e il violino stesso saranno ben assestati, e naturalmente se la risposta acustica del violino dovesse richiederlo. Naturalmene con geometrie strutturali differenti (arcature, spessori, posizione di effe e catena, ecc.) potrebbe essere necessario apportare delle variazioni alle misure indicate.
Before making the bridge it is necessary to put in the soundpost, so as to be able to adapt the bridge feet taking into account the slight deformations that the necessary tension of the soundpost will cause to the curvature of the top arching. To have a reference for positioning, I trace the line of the bridge foot and the (mirrored) lines of the bassbar inside the top plate, so as not to have to trace the position of the bridge on the outside. The soundpost will be placed laterally 1 mm inside the bridge foot, i.e. in the position corresponding to the bassbar, and 2.5 mm away from the foot itself. The soundpost must be placed without any tension at 1 mm from the final lateral position so that once it has been brought into the final position the tension will be correct. It must be kept vertical, i.e. parallel to the ribs in all directions. The grain must be kept perpendicular to that of the top plate. The perfect fit of the contact surfaces is of fundamental importance both for the acoustic response and for preventing structural damage (soundpost crack). This is the placement that, based on my experience, I use as an initial standard for all my violins as soon as the construction is finished: it is only a starting point, a definitive fine-tuning may be necessary but will only be done when the set-up and the violin itself they will be well settled, and of course if the acoustic response of the violin were to require it. Of course, with different structural geometries (archings, thicknesses, f-holes and bassbar position, etc.) it may be necessary to make small changes to the measures indicated.
Index of videos - English: davidesora.altervista.org/vid...
Italiano: davidesora.altervista.org/video/
#costruzioneviolino #violinmaking
I was always super impressed wondering how in the world luthiers managed to place soundposts precisely. But now that I see the process it makes so much more sense. I think most makers these days mark the position of the soundpost on the interior, but I've seen special measuring tools that can be used on old, unmarked violins, so I understand how that could be done.
marking the position inside is not essential, but in my opinion it is useful to be able to quickly check the position of the soundpost more easily, especially if the violin falls into the hands of inexperienced "luthiers". In reality, the final soundpost adjustment is done by "hearing" without measuring by doing the adjustment together with the player, but with some simple tools like the ones you have seen, it is possible to keep track of its position once found
Thanks for another great video. You make it look very easy, quite different from the hours I spent trying to do this - but at least now I know how it can work.
Any hand made acoustic instrument is unique.....there are no two exactly alike. I'm no musician or instrument maker but I have a good understanding of physics and how different materials behave in a range of conditions and environments. I actually joined a team from a respected government laboratory that implemented the characteristics of surface acoustical waves for a critical component of a missile guidance system upgrade. Very interesting video! Ive seen other videos about making a violin and not one gave the attention you did to the soundpost.
You are right, each violin has its own peculiar character, for this reason it is important to take great care in the set-up to allow it to express its full potential. You have to take all the time you need for this, there is no room for serial and repetitive work.🙂
Ciao, è un piacere parlare con te. Seguo e ammiro il tuo lavoro, che contribuisce molto alla liuteria. Congratulazioni!
Thank you. A great deal for me to learn here.
Excelente profissional, obrigado por compartilhar seu conhecimento, saudações do Brasil
Que maravilha obra prima
I'm watching this video with my violin (which is a bench violin - made by one luthier) in my hand before practicing and I knew a lot of work went into it, but these series of videos have opened my eyes even more. Wow! Thanks for the series, they are amazing!
Thanks!
if my videos help to make even just a musician more aware of what's behind the construction of his violin, I think they have achieved one of the goals I had in mind. Obviously, not all violins are built as I show in my videos, a lot depends on the work ethic of each luthier, and not everyone has the same attitude.🙂
@@DavideSora I believe that the luthier I bought my violin from here in Canada has the same attitude and ethics that you have shown in these videos. She (yes, she) made me a beautiful violin that sounds amazing. And the sound is maturing! If I may, do you make bows as well? That would be interesting to watch as well.
@@johncebasek6252 Yep, there are several good luthiers around the world, and I know some very good Canadians too. Thankfully, I'm not the only one who cares about working in the best possible way from an acoustic and aesthetic point of view, and in respect of the cultural values to which our work is intimately and historically linked🙂
Sorry, I don't deal with bows. Here in Cremona we have at least four bowmakers who deal exclusively with bows, so I prefer to rely on their greater experience and dedicate my time only to violin making.
I have a close collaboration with a couple of them because the bow is a very important aspect of the sound and it is essential to have excellent bows available when I try my violins, to be able to better evaluate how they work.
@@DavideSora One last question if I may? How long did it take for you to complete the violin?
@@johncebasek6252 About three to four months.
Maestro as you've rightly pointed out in another comment that the final soundpost adjustment is done by hearing, could you kindly show us the process of final adjusting of the soundpost?
I'm curious to know what happens when moving the soundpost towards different directions on both the top and back plate, especially if certain string is softer than the other strings, how the balance is achieved.
Sincerest thanks and lots of love.
Alwyn Carvalho.
Making a video to show the adjusting process wouldn't help much, because you wouldn't understand much as you would need to be able to hear the sound effects of the adjustment, which is impossible with a recording and with the compression of the audio files imposed by TH-cam. In any case, for the adjustment you need a good player (possibly the owner of the violin, because the perception of the sound is a matter of personal preference), and you try small adjustments by varying the position and tension of the soundpost, playing the violin after each adjustment to feel the changes, and whether they will be for the better or for the worse, until finding the position that most satisfies the player. Sometimes it may even be necessary to try soundposts of different lengths in order to vary the tension without changing the position. There are no exact recipes, as each violin will respond differently to adjustments, it's more a matter of trying and seeing what happens and whether the change is perceived as positive or negative by the player. Sometimes a small touch with the soundpost setter is enough to obtain significant changes, sometimes it will be necessary to move the soundpost even by a few millimeters, and sometimes some violins are particularly insensitive to the movement of the soundpost, especially those with an extremely robust construction (stiff and thick). But don't think that miracles can be done with the soundpost, if the violin isn't built well you won't get great improvements. Furthermore, when it comes to new violins that have just been finished, you will need to wait some time for them to settle well under string tension, otherwise you would only get temporary improvements which will be nullified by the subsequent settling of the violin, because the tolerances involved are really minimal and even only a few cents of variation in the distance between the plates could be significant for the soundpost tension, and so for the sound.
@@DavideSora absolutely agreed on all points, thank you for your excellent insights!
ok I've read maestronet extensively and still couldn't find out whether too low ribs are not good for sound, since I will be using quite good wood for the plates I'm now deciding if I should remake a rib garland. My top block is 28.8mm, the rest are about 30mm. if the sound will be shrill and harsh I would rather remake it. thanks
I don't think a garland like yours is extremely low, in some ancient violins they are found even lower, but I must admit they are usually associated with very high and stiff archings. Ribs contribute to the stiffness and volume of the soundbox, considered by themselves they don't mean much. In any case, with the same stiffness of the archings, low ribs will decrease the general stiffness of the soundbox, so I doubt that they would favor a shrill sound, if anything they could darken it, but who knows, as you well know it is not possible to make predictions of this kind, and this is probably also why you haven't found any answers on Maestronet yet. What would personally worry me most with very low ribs is the decreased longitudinal strength, which, unless compensated for with arching, could lead to excessive deformation of the structure (neck dropping). But as I said yours do not seem so low, if you have put sturdy linings at least 7 mm high and 1.8 / 2 mm thick I don't think it could be a real problem, but as you can see the details to consider are many, it is the whole that matters, not the single element.
@@DavideSora thank you so much Maestro.
There is no violin workshop and luthier in my location but I love to learn violin. And also no violin course in here. I have to come to the city 6 hours if I want to find teacher and violin workshop.
Accidentally my sound post collapsed when I loose all my strings, my bad. And I have to buy the tool online to set my sound post again, but until now I'm not sure that it is in the right position, I just set and adjust it to the sound that I like after tried several times 😅. I think I have to go to the city to visit the workshop and make sure the position 😅 because there is no sign and guide for the position inside the violin.
If the soundpost falls when you remove the strings, it is most likely too short and you should make a new one, getting the right tension in the optimal position. If properly fitted, the soundpost should not fall if you remove the strings. This doesn't mean it has to be very tight, just the right tension and perfect fit of the contact surfaces will do the job. You need to be assisted by a good luthier, 6 hours of travel is not a lot, I know people who make longer journeys to take care of their violin setup. Of course, it also depends on the value of the violin.🙂
@@DavideSorayeah I have plan to the violin workshop next week. Probably because the sound post is too short.
Hello Davide Sora , I hope you are well :
I would like to know what is your opinion regarding to the use of synthetic glue( white glue).
Is there any part that is convenient to use it?
I would like know your point of view.
Thank so much.
I'm not a big fan of synthetic glue, some use it but I think hot hide glue is more appropriate for violins, you can adjust its strength depending on the need, it's easily reversible, and it doesn't have an expiration date on the shelf. I use Titebond only for service work (tools, templates, counterforms, etc.), or for temporary gluing such as blocks to form, fingerboard temporary gluing, upper nut, temporary cleats, etc.
Curiously, on the Titebond label, they write that it is not suitable for working under load, which would make it not recommended for violins that are constantly under tension. Although to be honest this problem doesn't seem to occur too often, it's something that makes me nervous since violins should last centuries (at least mine😊), for me it's one more reason not to use synthetic glues for gluing which will be a part of the life of the instrument
Olá Davide onde comprar essa luz de Led para por dentro do violino.?
I built it myself, you need just a strip of LEDs to be cut to the length you want, a piece of wire, a 12-volt power supply, a soldering iron for the connections and that's it. If you are not familiar with wires and electric soldering you can find it here, but it's battery-powered only, and a bit costly to be honest. www.cremonatools.com/led-flood-light-strip.html
I also have longer led LEDs strips to provide more lighting for larger instruments such as cellos and guitars
I bought a bundle of Chinese soundposts and from a quick inspection I threw half of them in the bin ..
Trusting what they send you is always a lottery, which is why I personally go to choose the wood from wood dealers. But if you didn't pay a lot for it and there was something good among all the pieces, at least you saved yourself the trip and the time to choose it, something to consider.🙂
According to this VDO, I feel so difficult to manage the right soundpost angle and place it into violin.
Yep, no easy, need some experience
Una spiegazione sarebbe utile
Non so che tipo di spiegazione intendi, ma questo è solo un video condensato e riassuntivo, se vuoi approfondire puoi guardare la serie completa sulla montatura del violino con video più dettagliati e con didascalie illustrative, la trovi in questa playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLaxadm6POX7FCjFNtDt41Hv7JPEvEVmV1.html
Ci sono tre video sull'anima, precisamente il numero 10, 11 e 12. Se ti servissero altre informazioni chiedi pure, ma l'argomento è talmente vasto che servirebbero domande più specifiche.
@@DavideSora grazie per la risposta, il lavoro è impeccabile, ma sarebbe interessante accompagnare il video con la spiegazione di ciò che stai facendo e del perché. Non per forza nel senso di "più approfondito", ma note esplicative, ad esempio "cos'è l'anima, perché è tonda, come capire se è disposta bene e come capire se è dimensionata bene, perché la raschi sul lato col coltellino invece che con la carta vetrata etc" piccole note interessanti
@@francescobarilla8669 Non mi piace parlare sui video, lo trovo troppo da "imbonitore" e soprattutto le descrizioni andrebbero adattate al livello tecnico dell'ascoltatore che non mi è noto. Ma se cerchi sul web trovi diversi liutai che si occupano di una divulgazione più basica e fatta in modo più accattivante e discorsivo, io preferisco evitare, mostro semplicemente il mio modo di lavorare. Inoltre, su argomenti molto tecnici come la montatura e l'anima, se non si ha l'esperienza necessaria non bastano poche informazioni generiche per capire se è a posto o meno, meglio rivolgersi a un liutaio esperto e qualificato.