There are many notable points from this exchange, not the least of which is Dr. White's views as expressed in this debate about "eternality" in John 1:1. Notice how from my question about THEOS as a count noun in John 1:1c at 1:55:06 to the end of Dr. White's answer at 1:55:53, Dr. White relies on an incorrect and assumed understanding of the context which to him reveals the Word "in eternity," even though it is explicitly "in the beginning"! Dr. White even uses HN ("was") to try and support his view, when all HN does is reveal when the Word "was," again, "in the beginning, which is not the same as "in eternity." "In the beginning" refers directly to Genesis 1:1 and the sequences of time involved with physical creation, during which times the "sons of God" were also present (Job 38:7). Were they "in eternity" as well? Of course not. But they were, like the Word, also "in the beginning." Further, in John 1:10 we read, ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἦν. Note the use of HN with a prepositional phrase ("in the world") just like in John 1:1. Does that mean the Word "was" eternally “in the world”? Again, of course not. Neither does HN mean the Word "was" eternally “in the beginning.” Both uses of HN in John Chapter 1, within a few verses of each other, and each with a prepositional phrase in the dative, simply describe the past, non-eternal existence in or at a location or time or both. Eternality has to be read into the text, which White and other Trinitarians regularly do, and which he does in this cross-examination, because otherwise he would have to admit THEOS in John 1:1c. is a count noun and so also "a god" in light of the non-eternal context where the Word is "with God," just like the other "sons of God" (Job 38:7). All of this is discussed in detail in my Jehovah's Witnesses Defended books, in the Chapters on John 1:1.
Not at all , when i say " james brown," it is meant to be a joke. Of course I didn't lay down my rebuttal!!!!!? Why? because If I would have laid down my (foolproof) rebuttal, you would have never contacted me- why? Because your Logics wouldn't be able to survive the debate and you would have ignored my post..... now if you can't answer me, or ignore my post - you validate me, and my God. I used the fact that you're a sociopath against you, making you feel the need to correct me Just so you can try to validate yourself. I came hear to crush your logics in front of all your followers and viewers. Now, that i have your attention - ill give my rebuttal- please don't run like a coward...like ppl most do. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, AND HE IS NOT A MAN. ((Malachi 3:6))- God speaking. 6For I am the LORD, (((I change not;))) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. ((Yashawn)) God does not change. The text says- if God were to change,the jews would not recognize God, and then they would be consumed...so God stays the same. ((1 Samuel 15:29)) And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for ((He is not a man,)) that He should repent.' ((Hosea 11))- God speaking. 9) I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: (((for I am God, and not man;))) the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. ((Nubmbers 23:19))- God speaking. 19((God is not a man,))that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? ((Yashawn)) It is clearly proclaimed that God is not a man, and then God tells us why he\God is not a man.... you cant go against what God says about himself - how else could God tell us that he does not change, and that he is not a man? (ABRAHAM DID NOT MEET A GOD MAN) ((Yashawn)) To understand the meeting that abraham had with the three angels we must understand what Elohim truly means. THE meaning OF ELOHIM. The Hebrew language is a gendered language. Peopel are either masculine or feminine individuals. To address a crowd of both male and female it is linguistically correct to call them all male The word Elohim does in fact mean gods; however, the text is not Talking about GODS... It is talking about the angels who carry Gods spirit .......just like Moses did. If we read about Moses in the bible we can clearly see that God said to moses, " You will be Elohim to the pharaoh." This does not mean Moses was a Gods Of many, it means moses had God with him, and if you have God with you then you are a God to the ones who do not have God with them.... (but your not a God.) Kinda like how a woman is not a man, but she is called a man when she is with a masculin. Even if it is ten girls, and one man, it would be proper to say,- " you men,\ masculine in the plural. Now apply the same thing with men and God- example We have ten Men, with one God - it would be proper to call the men (( elohim)) Godly in the plural. This was a old way of speaking and most places don't speak like this any more- but the Israelites used to. This is why some men and angels are called God.
@Kingjamesbible6111 you rather be called a Bible believer? I'll be called a Christian. Follow Christ not just a book. Peter told us all not to be ashamed of being called Christian. You can learn from him. And lucky you, it's in the book
I was very interested in hearing how James White would of answered the question on John 17:3 ... that's a Cliff Hanger that was left hanging...I enjoyed the debate, James did well. Greg did Excellent. Side note: The time I was impressed with James White was when he debated Bart Erhman, that debate was classic.
Yeah he's not a bad debater James White is a seriously hard time to get thru and only reason I came to find this debate because I saw how he debated Muslim (James White) the more interesting debates he had was with Shabir Aly and I always saw him stumble in trinitarian debates with Muslims not like in this one but enough to notice his arguments didn't hold as much conviction as his others against Islam. But in this one... He got destroyed handedly.
No… you have missed the point completely, the father IS NOT OUR ONE AND ONLY GOD. Jesus is also our Lord & god & we should worship him as well ! Don’t forget Jesus our Lord & Saviour who is also our god !
Greetings from Venezuela! I am a Christian who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity, however, I believe that his participation in this debate was superior to that of Dr. James white, I believe that a more appropriate rival at his level would be Dr. William Lane Craig (You wondered about the possibility of debating with him?) I came here to ask you a question, I don't speak English so I use the automatic translated subtitles generated by TH-cam... The question is this: in the light of John 12:41, in the debate you said that the Greek term for "glory" was also found in Isaiah 53:13 of the LXX, however, when reviewing that version I find that the chapter ends in verse 12, is the quote you indicated wrong because of the TH-cam subtitles? Was TH-cam wrong in the translation or you? If not, what variant of the LXX does he use to talk about this additional #13 verse? Thank you for dedicating yourself to reading.
Greetings to you! Thank you for your comment. In the debate, I meant Isaiah 52:13, not 53:13. Here is a recent video a did about this issue as well: th-cam.com/video/JjGvBhfMMVk/w-d-xo.html
James White messed up on the Theos argument in John 1:1, i think Greg caught him out there!... He was vague and waffling. I don't think he liked that interrogation!.... Am glad Greg pressed this issue. We see so many times this type of Evangelical games being played with Word and Grammar.... White just was unable to gather himself to admit he was in error.... I like the way everytime White is pressed he switches to you assuming Unitarianism but one can flip and say James you assuming Trinitarianism.... He uses this type of reasoning against all his opponents to downgrade and dominate them.... I like Greg pointing out each time I'm just reading the text. Was james playing dumb because he didn't have it all his way?.... Well done Greg!!
In response to the semantic gamesmanship at 1:15:00ff, you have the Lamb in the midst of the throne at the end of the book of Revelation. The Lamb receives the “proskuneo.”
What's wrong with the Lamb receiving PROSKYNEO? Christians are given PROSKYNEO in Revelation 3:9. Numerous people are given PROSKYNEO in the OT. Do you even read the Bible, or do you just show up to promote false doctrine?
Watch this video, look up all the texts, and start learning about the Bible's use of worship words for those who are NOT God: th-cam.com/video/YYZMtLudRpw/w-d-xo.html
Hi Greg, do you have further discussion of unfinish question regarding your cross exam with Dr. White about Jesus being given the name above every name philippians 2:9. The point that you want to develop with regards to Dr. White response
I watched this again, and the cross examination is just great the John 1:1 and John 17:3 is God one God the father and he is just wiggling around it he can't let there be one God father and have Jesus be separate from the Godhead Jesus being god but not God the father. You can't be the God your with. It's so easy. Great debate just goes to show the Bible the text and the translation theos no later on in history Trinity doctrine can't get around it.
He brings up the "equality" Jesus had with God in terms of his divine form according to Philippians 2:6. I discuss this in my Jehovah's Witnesses Defended books (see the Scripture Index) and in my Three Dissertations (again see the index of texts), and I just did a video about this very subject several days ago (th-cam.com/video/8EASRXpXEw4/w-d-xo.html), and before that I did a whole video about Philippians 2:5-8 in October of last year (th-cam.com/video/4CWDZPbplS0/w-d-xo.html). Enjoy!
This is the debate I found out about Greg what utter destruction. Mr Stafford since you are no longer affiliated with the JWs what is the estimated percentage of what you still agree with your previous ideology and what are some of the main things you disagree about. Sorry for the long question just curious.
There is no change in ideology from this debate to the present. You can scroll through my videos and pretty easily find where I differ on other subjects.
There is only one true God and he is the almighty father 🙌 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. 21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; 22 for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end,[b] when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For ‘God has put all things in subjection under his feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection’, it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all.
I've listened to a lot of "God the Father is the unique God" debates and agree with them. I thought I'd heard all the arguments, but Stafford makes some excellent points I hadn't heard before! For example, the "Father/father" in two senses in John 8 and yet "only one Father". And the fact that the God who spoke through the prophets in the past is irrefutably shown to be God the Father only! Thank you for posting this video!
It seems to me also that White misses that John said "Isaiah said *these things* because he saw his glory and spoke about him". Why would Isaiah's vision of Jehovah's glory in the temple at Isa. 6:1 be the *reason* why he said "Jehovah, who has believed our report?" at Isa. 53:1? It makes no sense.
The debate is over the scriptures are clever and Greg said it how it is Hebrew 1 v 3 is the killer text in print a copy yehovah is not a copy of any thing if the trinitians want to belive there man made doctrine then that’s there Free will but there’s all ways a but. the Pharisees Jesus told them that they come from there farther the devil 👿 so let’s just not say we’re like most of them we need to understand that text Hebrews 1 v 3 a inprint a copy yes Jesus is the image of Jehovah simple
I am somewhat shocked people don’t understand the issue of a copy. The questions suggesting it can be the same as the original show total lack of understanding. The US Constitution was brought up and they audience member seemed to suggest they thought a copy could be equal. See if the Smithsonian would be OK if you swapped out the original with a copy. Try selling a copy of the Mona Lisa for millions. Greg was so right. A copy comes later and is never equal to the original unless taking in terms of things like mass produced trinkets from China, for example.
I can't help but feel a sense of compassion upon these poor trinitarians. They truly just cannot see how their arguments are nonsensical or in some cases their arguments even PROVE that there is no trinity lol. Dr. White claims to defend "monotheism" but in his cross examination asks about TWO eternal divine beings, this is the total opposite of monotheism lol. I always say that very intelligent people can come across very unintelligent when they try and explain/defend trinitarian doctrine or Calvinistic predestination. These views are just so bogus. I do feel sorry for James here and all those blinded by false doctrines. Anyway I really enjoy this debate and watch it often. Good job Greg. Jah bless 🙏
@OmyKon I'm still not sure about your question. Are you saying that the trinity doctrine being spread and generally accepted by Christian people proves its truthfulness? Or are you asking me why it is so widespread?
@@christophermorton7680 Jesus said to spread his gospel to all nations. Part of that is the Trinity, which was affirmed by the apostles apostles at the councils.
@BornAgainEnglishmanKJV John 17:22-23 " I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one- 23 I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." so now you got 14 Gods .. 12 desciples plus jesus plus the father.. who shared all the same glory . moreoever in John 17:4-5 jesus said " I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." .. wich mean crucifixion is not something wich the father asked jesus to do. when i said john17:3 is a knock out.. i said it for a reason because it is a clear and explicit statement from jesus himself puting the father as the only true God. that's why muslims believe in one God the father " Allah" or like jesus called him in MATTHEW 27:46 "Eloi Eloi " or " Eli Eli lama sabachtani" wich means " “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
Trinitarians spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Altogether, it's for 2,000 years second by second to prove Jesus' deity. Did they spend the same amount of time proving the Father's deity? I want the Trinitarians to prove the Father's deity at least once in their lives. Trinitarians hate the Father, they have never seen him and have never heard of him, they do not know who or who he is. I am waiting, waiting, but there is not a single powerful proof from the Trinitarians that the Father is God, because it is still only about the son and His deity. This is already a Trinitarian obsession.
you are right. Never noticed this before. They get round it I think by thinking to themselves that Jesus IS THE FATHER, but they will not admit to it due to the illogical meaning, but then they invoke the "mystery" card and get a free run home.
@@ken440Pure Christianity is the consensual worship of one God the Father, Jehovah, through one Lord - Jesus Christ. //// THE JEWS DENY THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST!!! (John 9:22; cp. Luke 12:8-9) His parents said these things because they were in fear of the Jews, for the Jews had already come to an agreement that if anyone acknowledged him as Christ, that person should be expelled from the synagogue. “I say to you, everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But whoever disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God.
@@ken440YeHoVaH - THE TRUE GOD IS NOT A MAN (EXODUS 4:11; JOB 9:32; NUMBERS 23:19; 1SAMUEL 16:7; HOSEA 11:9; ECCLES. 2:26; PSALM 89:35; TITUS 1:2; 1TIMOTHY 2:5)
😢at this point 👉of my life I understood this debate 🙄that is to embarrassed 😢either person 😮. The arguments contradicts conflicts = is this to prove that the other is wrong. I😢
Can't see why there is a debate--when the scriptures tell you who Jesus is. Jesus died--BUT God can't die!! Jesus said God was greater than him. Anyone who knows the Bible knows Isaiah 53:11 is speaking about Jesus being our redemer “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” In Isaiah 53:11 God calls Jesus a servant. John 17:3 explains there is a differance. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, ---AND__Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” Jesus was MADE by God. Hebrews 1:4 “Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.” Hebrews 1:4 “Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.” Hebrews 2:7 God made Jesus “Thou MADEST him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:” Jesus called God his righteous Father John 17:25 “O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.” 1 Corinthians 11:3 God is HEAD of Jesus “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” Ephesians 1:3 God was the Father of Jesus BUT God was also the God of Jesus. “Blessed- be -the -God and Father-- of- our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:” God was the Father of Jesus BUT God was also the God of Jesus. 1 Peter 1:3 “Blessed- be- the -God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
in john 17:3 jesus declared clearly that the father is the only true God.. yet christians today believe " the father , the son , the holly spirirt " are one true God ..that's why islam came to correct this lies against God who is one not three in one .
@@Ryan_Nath father & son are human qualities , not a God quality.. because God is self sufficient and he doesn't need a son or a wife or familly or to be a father of this familly.. he is above of all that ; if you understand this word " self sufficient" you understand the rest.. because in chrisianity the 03 persons are doing different roles hence they accomplish each other .. but in islam Allah alone do all these things with ease without any need of help or anyone else to accomplish his work. that's why all human being can be fathers or sons , but God never ever because he created these fathers and sons.. he can't be like them otherwise he is human like them not God. that's why The Quran came brining islam as the only true religion from God to correct all the wrong informations towards God and towards his prophet jesus christ .!!
@@iliaschannel3646 The qurans wrong and false. Every prophet called him the father, Jesus calls him his Father and that he's the Son of YHWH. Nowhere have I mentioned Jesus is God, nor have I mentioned a trinity. The trinity is not required for God to be 'a' or 'the' father. You quoted john 17:3 in your original comment, so go and read the whole chapter instead of just 1 verse
@@iliaschannel3646 It is clear yeah... Know the only true God and Jesus Christ.. Not muhammad. Again, I never said Jesus is God and I never mentioned the trinity.
Doctor white your like the Pharisees they Jehovah has no in print a copy and Jesus is a perfect copy not imperfect copy doctor white needs to swallow his pride ? even more so Jehovah is immortal that’s why he cud not come down to die for us Jesus was mortal but cud still live for ever but when he Jesus cane down he died and jehovah resurrected his son and gave him immortality so he has life in him self ?
@@CWJahTube 🤣Not at all , when i say " james brown," it is meant to be an insulting joke. Of course I didn't lay down my rebuttal!!!!! Why? because If I would have laid down my (foolproof) rebuttal, you would have never contacted me- why? Because your Logics wouldn't be able to survive the debate and you would have ignored my post..... now if you can't answer me, or ignore my post - you validate me, and my God. I used the fact that you're a sociopath against you, making you feel the need to correct me Just so you can try to validate yourself. I came hear to crush your logics in front of all your followers and viewers. Now, that i have your attention - ill give my rebuttal- please don't run like a coward...like most do. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, AND HE IS NOT A MAN. ((Malachi 3:6))- God speaking. 6For I am the LORD, (((I change not;))) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. ((Yashawn)) God does not change. The text says- if God were to change,the jews would not recognize God, and then they would be consumed...so God stays the same. ((1 Samuel 15:29)) And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for ((He is not a man,)) that He should repent.' ((Hosea 11))- God speaking. 9) I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: (((for I am God, and not man;))) the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. ((Numbers 23:19))- God speaking. 19((God is not a man,))that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? ((Yashawn)) It is clearly proclaimed that God is not a man, and then God tells us why he\God is not a man.... you cant go against what God says about himself - how else could God tell us that he does not change, and that he is not a man? (ABRAHAM DID NOT MEET A GOD MAN) ((Yashawn)) To understan the meeting that abraham had with the three angels we must understand what ELOHIM truly means. THE MEANINING OF ELOHIM. The Hebrew language is a gendered language. Peopel are either masculine or feminine individuals. To address a crowd of both male and female it is linguistically correct to call them all male The word Elohim does in fact mean gods; however, the text is not Talking about GODS... It is talking about the angels who carry Gods spirit .......just like Moses did. If we read about Moses in the bible we can clearly see that God said to moses, " You will be Elohim to the pharaoh." This does not mean Moses was a Gods Of many, it means moses had God with him, and if you have God with you then you are a God to the ones who do not have God with them.... (but your not a God.) Kinda like how a woman is not a man, but she is called a man when she is with a masculin. Even if it is ten girls, and one man, it would be proper to say,- " you men,\ masculine in the plural. Now apply the same thing with men and God- example We have ten Men, with one God - it would be proper to call the men (( elohime)) Godly in the plural. This was a old way of speaking and most places dont speak like this any more- but the Israelites used to. This is why some men and angels are called God.
@@CWJahTube Not at all , when i say " james brown," it is meant to be a joke. Of course I didn't lay down my rebuttal!!!!!? Why? because If I would have laid down my (foolproof) rebuttal, you would have never contacted me- why? Because your Logics wouldn't be able to survive the debate and you would have ignored my post..... now if you can't answer me, or ignore my post - you validate me, and my God. I used the fact that you're a sociopath against you, making you feel the need to correct me Just so you can try to validate yourself. I came hear to crush your logics in front of all your followers and viewers. Now, that i have your attention - ill give my rebuttal- please don't run like a coward...like ppl most do. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, AND HE IS NOT A MAN. ((Malachi 3:6))- God speaking. 6For I am the LORD, (((I change not;))) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. ((Yashawn)) God does not change. The text says- if God were to change,the jews would not recognize God, and then they would be consumed...so God stays the same. ((1 Samuel 15:29)) And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for ((He is not a man,)) that He should repent.' ((Hosea 11))- God speaking. 9) I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: (((for I am God, and not man;))) the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. ((Nubmbers 23:19))- God speaking. 19((God is not a man,))that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? ((Yashawn)) It is clearly proclaimed that God is not a man, and then God tells us why he\God is not a man.... you cant go against what God says about himself - how else could God tell us that he does not change, and that he is not a man? (ABRAHAM DID NOT MEET A GOD MAN) ((Yashawn)) To understand the meeting that abraham had with the three angels we must understand what Elohim truly means. THE meaning OF ELOHIM. The Hebrew language is a gendered language. Peopel are either masculine or feminine individuals. To address a crowd of both male and female it is linguistically correct to call them all male The word Elohim does in fact mean gods; however, the text is not Talking about GODS... It is talking about the angels who carry Gods spirit .......just like Moses did. If we read about Moses in the bible we can clearly see that God said to moses, " You will be Elohim to the pharaoh." This does not mean Moses was a Gods Of many, it means moses had God with him, and if you have God with you then you are a God to the ones who do not have God with them.... (but your not a God.) Kinda like how a woman is not a man, but she is called a man when she is with a masculin. Even if it is ten girls, and one man, it would be proper to say,- " you men,\ masculine in the plural. Now apply the same thing with men and God- example We have ten Men, with one God - it would be proper to call the men (( elohim)) Godly in the plural. This was a old way of speaking and most places don't speak like this any more- but the Israelites used to. This is why some men and angels are called God.
There are many notable points from this exchange, not the least of which is Dr. White's views as expressed in this debate about "eternality" in John 1:1. Notice how from my question about THEOS as a count noun in John 1:1c at 1:55:06 to the end of Dr. White's answer at 1:55:53, Dr. White relies on an incorrect and assumed understanding of the context which to him reveals the Word "in eternity," even though it is explicitly "in the beginning"! Dr. White even uses HN ("was") to try and support his view, when all HN does is reveal when the Word "was," again, "in the beginning, which is not the same as "in eternity." "In the beginning" refers directly to Genesis 1:1 and the sequences of time involved with physical creation, during which times the "sons of God" were also present (Job 38:7). Were they "in eternity" as well? Of course not. But they were, like the Word, also "in the beginning." Further, in John 1:10 we read, ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἦν. Note the use of HN with a prepositional phrase ("in the world") just like in John 1:1. Does that mean the Word "was" eternally “in the world”? Again, of course not. Neither does HN mean the Word "was" eternally “in the beginning.” Both uses of HN in John Chapter 1, within a few verses of each other, and each with a prepositional phrase in the dative, simply describe the past, non-eternal existence in or at a location or time or both. Eternality has to be read into the text, which White and other Trinitarians regularly do, and which he does in this cross-examination, because otherwise he would have to admit THEOS in John 1:1c. is a count noun and so also "a god" in light of the non-eternal context where the Word is "with God," just like the other "sons of God" (Job 38:7). All of this is discussed in detail in my Jehovah's Witnesses Defended books, in the Chapters on John 1:1.
Not at all , when i say " james brown," it is meant to be a joke.
Of course I didn't lay down my rebuttal!!!!!? Why?
because If I would have laid down my (foolproof) rebuttal, you would have never contacted me- why? Because your Logics wouldn't be able to survive the debate and you would have ignored my post..... now if you can't answer me, or ignore my post - you validate me, and my God.
I used the fact that you're a sociopath against you, making you feel the need to correct me
Just so you can try to validate yourself.
I came hear to crush your logics in front of all your followers and viewers.
Now, that i have your attention - ill give my rebuttal- please don't run like a coward...like ppl most do.
GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, AND HE IS
NOT A MAN.
((Malachi 3:6))- God speaking.
6For I am the LORD, (((I change not;))) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
((Yashawn))
God does not change.
The text says- if God were to change,the jews would not recognize God, and then they would be consumed...so God stays the same.
((1 Samuel 15:29))
And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for ((He is not a man,)) that He should repent.'
((Hosea 11))- God speaking.
9) I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim:
(((for I am God, and not man;))) the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
((Nubmbers 23:19))- God speaking.
19((God is not a man,))that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
((Yashawn))
It is clearly proclaimed that God is not a man, and then God tells us why he\God is not a man....
you cant go against what God says about himself - how else could God tell us that he does not change, and that he is not a man?
(ABRAHAM DID NOT MEET A GOD MAN)
((Yashawn))
To understand the meeting that abraham had with the three angels we must understand what Elohim truly means.
THE meaning OF ELOHIM.
The Hebrew language is a gendered language. Peopel are either masculine or feminine individuals. To address a crowd of both male and female it is linguistically correct to call them all male
The word Elohim does in fact mean gods; however, the text is not Talking about GODS...
It is talking about the angels who carry Gods spirit .......just like Moses did.
If we read about Moses in the bible we can clearly see that God said to moses,
" You will be Elohim to the pharaoh."
This does not mean Moses was a Gods
Of many, it means moses had God with him, and if you have God with you then you are a God to the ones who do not have God with them....
(but your not a God.)
Kinda like how a woman is not a man, but she is called a man when she is with a masculin.
Even if it is ten girls, and one man, it would be proper to say,-
" you men,\ masculine in the plural.
Now apply the same thing with men and God- example
We have ten Men, with one God -
it would be proper to call the men (( elohim)) Godly in the plural.
This was a old way of speaking and most places don't speak like this any more- but the Israelites used to.
This is why some men and angels are called God.
And you are no longer a JW right?
@@onesneak7668 th-cam.com/video/PIgXfr-WKj8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2sm2ZYe2be3rCakX
@@Kingjamesbible6111 no. They are called Christian
@Kingjamesbible6111 you rather be called a Bible believer? I'll be called a Christian. Follow Christ not just a book.
Peter told us all not to be ashamed of being called Christian. You can learn from him. And lucky you, it's in the book
Praise Jah! in the name of Jesus🙏🏻. May Jah bless Greg and our channel🎈🎈🎉👏🏼👏🏼
This was my favorite debate
The truth of God and his word always prevail, thank you for sharing this.
You totally overwhelmed Dr white with the Biblical proofs
I was very interested in hearing how James White would of answered the question on John 17:3 ... that's a Cliff Hanger that was left hanging...I enjoyed the debate, James did well. Greg did Excellent. Side note: The time I was impressed with James White was when he debated Bart Erhman, that debate was classic.
Yeah he's not a bad debater James White is a seriously hard time to get thru and only reason I came to find this debate because I saw how he debated Muslim (James White) the more interesting debates he had was with Shabir Aly and I always saw him stumble in trinitarian debates with Muslims not like in this one but enough to notice his arguments didn't hold as much conviction as his others against Islam. But in this one... He got destroyed handedly.
Dr. White got obliterated by John 17 3
The cross examination.. Greg very relaxed & easily answered questions… Dr White… Very irritated & was defensive & evasive to the questions.
I so love Greg and this debate just beautifully explained in discribing the father our One and only God you are a beautiful man Greg awesome job
Thank you, Laura.
No… you have missed the point completely, the father IS NOT OUR ONE AND ONLY GOD. Jesus is also our Lord & god & we should worship him as well ! Don’t forget Jesus our Lord & Saviour who is also our god !
This debate opened my eyes to the truth..You did a wonderful job..
Greetings from Venezuela!
I am a Christian who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity, however, I believe that his participation in this debate was superior to that of Dr. James white, I believe that a more appropriate rival at his level would be Dr. William Lane Craig (You wondered about the possibility of debating with him?)
I came here to ask you a question, I don't speak English so I use the automatic translated subtitles generated by TH-cam...
The question is this: in the light of John 12:41, in the debate you said that the Greek term for "glory" was also found in Isaiah 53:13 of the LXX, however, when reviewing that version I find that the chapter ends in verse 12, is the quote you indicated wrong because of the TH-cam subtitles? Was TH-cam wrong in the translation or you? If not, what variant of the LXX does he use to talk about this additional #13 verse?
Thank you for dedicating yourself to reading.
Greetings to you! Thank you for your comment. In the debate, I meant Isaiah 52:13, not 53:13. Here is a recent video a did about this issue as well: th-cam.com/video/JjGvBhfMMVk/w-d-xo.html
@@CWJahTube Thank you so much!
James White messed up on the Theos argument in John 1:1, i think Greg caught him out there!... He was vague and waffling. I don't think he liked that interrogation!.... Am glad Greg pressed this issue. We see so many times this type of Evangelical games being played with Word and Grammar.... White just was unable to gather himself to admit he was in error.... I like the way everytime White is pressed he switches to you assuming Unitarianism but one can flip and say James you assuming Trinitarianism.... He uses this type of reasoning against all his opponents to downgrade and dominate them.... I like Greg pointing out each time I'm just reading the text. Was james playing dumb because he didn't have it all his way?.... Well done Greg!!
Greg wins!!
In response to the semantic gamesmanship at 1:15:00ff, you have the Lamb in the midst of the throne at the end of the book of Revelation. The Lamb receives the “proskuneo.”
What's wrong with the Lamb receiving PROSKYNEO? Christians are given PROSKYNEO in Revelation 3:9. Numerous people are given PROSKYNEO in the OT. Do you even read the Bible, or do you just show up to promote false doctrine?
Watch this video, look up all the texts, and start learning about the Bible's use of worship words for those who are NOT God: th-cam.com/video/YYZMtLudRpw/w-d-xo.html
Hi Greg, do you have further discussion of unfinish question regarding your cross exam with Dr. White about Jesus being given the name above every name philippians 2:9. The point that you want to develop with regards to Dr. White response
I watched this again, and the cross examination is just great the John 1:1 and John 17:3 is God one God the father and he is just wiggling around it he can't let there be one God father and have Jesus be separate from the Godhead Jesus being god but not God the father. You can't be the God your with. It's so easy. Great debate just goes to show the Bible the text and the translation theos no later on in history Trinity doctrine can't get around it.
Where could I read or get to know your disagreement on what James White says? min: 1:56:15
He brings up the "equality" Jesus had with God in terms of his divine form according to Philippians 2:6. I discuss this in my Jehovah's Witnesses Defended books (see the Scripture Index) and in my Three Dissertations (again see the index of texts), and I just did a video about this very subject several days ago (th-cam.com/video/8EASRXpXEw4/w-d-xo.html), and before that I did a whole video about Philippians 2:5-8 in October of last year (th-cam.com/video/4CWDZPbplS0/w-d-xo.html). Enjoy!
This is the debate I found out about Greg what utter destruction. Mr Stafford since you are no longer affiliated with the JWs what is the estimated percentage of what you still agree with your previous ideology and what are some of the main things you disagree about. Sorry for the long question just curious.
There is no change in ideology from this debate to the present. You can scroll through my videos and pretty easily find where I differ on other subjects.
@@CWJahTube thank you Greg I'll look into it
I hate to say it, but Jamws White's explanation of John 10, "Ye are gods," is atrocious and ridiculous!
There is only one true God and he is the almighty father 🙌
1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. 21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; 22 for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end,[b] when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For ‘God has put all things in subjection under his feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection’, it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all.
I've listened to a lot of "God the Father is the unique God" debates and agree with them. I thought I'd heard all the arguments, but Stafford makes some excellent points I hadn't heard before! For example, the "Father/father" in two senses in John 8 and yet "only one Father". And the fact that the God who spoke through the prophets in the past is irrefutably shown to be God the Father only! Thank you for posting this video!
Jesus called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17
See also Rev. 3:12
It seems to me also that White misses that John said "Isaiah said *these things* because he saw his glory and spoke about him". Why would Isaiah's vision of Jehovah's glory in the temple at Isa. 6:1 be the *reason* why he said "Jehovah, who has believed our report?" at Isa. 53:1? It makes no sense.
True: th-cam.com/video/JjGvBhfMMVk/w-d-xo.html
2 clever men, with limited human resources. Jesús Christ the way, the truth and the life! John 14:6.
The debate is over the scriptures are clever and Greg said it how it is Hebrew 1 v 3 is the killer text in print a copy yehovah is not a copy of any thing if the trinitians want to belive there man made doctrine then that’s there Free will but there’s all ways a but. the Pharisees Jesus told them that they come from there farther the devil 👿 so let’s just not say we’re like most of them we need to understand that text Hebrews 1 v 3 a inprint a copy yes Jesus is the image of Jehovah simple
I am somewhat shocked people don’t understand the issue of a copy. The questions suggesting it can be the same as the original show total lack of understanding. The US Constitution was brought up and they audience member seemed to suggest they thought a copy could be equal. See if the Smithsonian would be OK if you swapped out the original with a copy. Try selling a copy of the Mona Lisa for millions. Greg was so right. A copy comes later and is never equal to the original unless taking in terms of things like mass produced trinkets from China, for example.
I can't help but feel a sense of compassion upon these poor trinitarians. They truly just cannot see how their arguments are nonsensical or in some cases their arguments even PROVE that there is no trinity lol. Dr. White claims to defend "monotheism" but in his cross examination asks about TWO eternal divine beings, this is the total opposite of monotheism lol. I always say that very intelligent people can come across very unintelligent when they try and explain/defend trinitarian doctrine or Calvinistic predestination. These views are just so bogus. I do feel sorry for James here and all those blinded by false doctrines. Anyway I really enjoy this debate and watch it often. Good job Greg. Jah bless 🙏
Why would the Trinity go to all nations but not any other?
@@OmyKon ??
@@christophermorton7680 did the Trinitarian belief go to all nations or did other beliefs?
@OmyKon I'm still not sure about your question. Are you saying that the trinity doctrine being spread and generally accepted by Christian people proves its truthfulness? Or are you asking me why it is so widespread?
@@christophermorton7680 Jesus said to spread his gospel to all nations. Part of that is the Trinity, which was affirmed by the apostles apostles at the councils.
john 17:3 is knock out for james white and trinity .. it is so explicit and so clear.
@BornAgainEnglishmanKJV John 17:22-23 " I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one- 23 I in them and you in me-so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
so now you got 14 Gods .. 12 desciples plus jesus plus the father.. who shared all the same glory .
moreoever in John 17:4-5 jesus said " I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." .. wich mean crucifixion is not something wich the father asked jesus to do.
when i said john17:3 is a knock out.. i said it for a reason because it is a clear and explicit statement from jesus himself puting the father as the only true God.
that's why muslims believe in one God the father " Allah" or like jesus called him in MATTHEW 27:46 "Eloi Eloi " or " Eli Eli lama sabachtani" wich means " “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
@BornAgainEnglishmanKJV actually it is , even john 17:4-5 means that the crucifixion is not part of the work that jesus finished
i must have missed something. does Stafford not believe that Jesus is Michael?
You might have missed something. But no one knows what you're referring to in this video, so I guess we all miss it too...
Believing the virgin birth, that Jesus life began in the womb of his mother solves all the problems with Arianism.
Jeremiah 31:34 (ASV/DARBY, NW); John 17:3
JEHOVAH IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD'S NAME, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE
god = angel
Trinitarians have no leg to stand on
Trinitarians spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Altogether, it's for 2,000 years second by second to prove Jesus' deity.
Did they spend the same amount of time proving the Father's deity?
I want the Trinitarians to prove the Father's deity at least once in their lives.
Trinitarians hate the Father, they have never seen him and have never heard of him, they do not know who or who he is.
I am waiting, waiting, but there is not a single powerful proof from the Trinitarians that the Father is God, because it is still only about the son and His deity. This is already a Trinitarian obsession.
you are right. Never noticed this before. They get round it I think by thinking to themselves that Jesus IS THE FATHER, but they will not admit to it due to the illogical meaning, but then they invoke the "mystery" card and get a free run home.
@@ken440Pure Christianity is the consensual worship of one God the Father, Jehovah, through one Lord - Jesus Christ. //// THE JEWS DENY THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST!!!
(John 9:22; cp. Luke 12:8-9)
His parents said these things because they were in fear of the Jews, for the Jews had already come to an agreement that if anyone acknowledged him as Christ, that person should be expelled from the synagogue.
“I say to you, everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But whoever disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God.
@@ken440YeHoVaH - THE TRUE GOD IS NOT A MAN (EXODUS 4:11; JOB 9:32; NUMBERS 23:19; 1SAMUEL 16:7; HOSEA 11:9; ECCLES. 2:26; PSALM 89:35; TITUS 1:2; 1TIMOTHY 2:5)
@@DjMakinetor hi.
Whats your point? do you think i am trinitarian? I know God is one, the father of the lord Jesus, the christos (anointed one).
@@ken440No, I just shared my experience regarding the Bible :)
😢at this point 👉of my life I understood this debate 🙄that is to embarrassed 😢either person 😮. The arguments contradicts conflicts = is this to prove that the other is wrong. I😢
Can't see why there is a debate--when the scriptures tell you who Jesus is.
Jesus died--BUT God can't die!! Jesus said God was greater than him.
Anyone who knows the Bible knows Isaiah 53:11 is speaking about Jesus being our redemer
“He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
In Isaiah 53:11 God calls Jesus a servant.
John 17:3 explains there is a differance.
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, ---AND__Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”
Jesus was MADE by God.
Hebrews 1:4
“Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”
Hebrews 1:4
“Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”
Hebrews 2:7 God made Jesus
“Thou MADEST him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:”
Jesus called God his righteous Father John 17:25
“O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.”
1 Corinthians 11:3 God is HEAD of Jesus
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.”
Ephesians 1:3 God was the Father of Jesus BUT God was also the God of Jesus.
“Blessed- be -the -God and Father-- of- our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”
God was the Father of Jesus BUT God was also the God of Jesus.
1 Peter 1:3
“Blessed- be- the -God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
in john 17:3 jesus declared clearly that the father is the only true God.. yet christians today believe " the father , the son , the holly spirirt " are one true God ..that's why islam came to correct this lies against God who is one not three in one .
islam says God isn't a father and Jesus isn't his Son, islam is wrong and doesn't correct anything.
@@Ryan_Nath father & son are human qualities , not a God quality.. because God is self sufficient and he doesn't need a son or a wife or familly or to be a father of this familly.. he is above of all that ; if you understand this word " self sufficient" you understand the rest.. because in chrisianity the 03 persons are doing different roles hence they accomplish each other .. but in islam Allah alone do all these things with ease without any need of help or anyone else to accomplish his work.
that's why all human being can be fathers or sons , but God never ever because he created these fathers and sons.. he can't be like them otherwise he is human like them not God.
that's why The Quran came brining islam as the only true religion from God to correct all the wrong informations towards God and towards his prophet jesus christ .!!
@@iliaschannel3646 The qurans wrong and false. Every prophet called him the father, Jesus calls him his Father and that he's the Son of YHWH. Nowhere have I mentioned Jesus is God, nor have I mentioned a trinity. The trinity is not required for God to be 'a' or 'the' father. You quoted john 17:3 in your original comment, so go and read the whole chapter instead of just 1 verse
@@Ryan_Nath well you wish the Quran is false.. john 17:3 is clear .
@@iliaschannel3646 It is clear yeah... Know the only true God and Jesus Christ.. Not muhammad. Again, I never said Jesus is God and I never mentioned the trinity.
Doctor white your like the Pharisees they Jehovah has no in print a copy and Jesus is a perfect copy not imperfect copy doctor white needs to swallow his pride ? even more so Jehovah is immortal that’s why he cud not come down to die for us Jesus was mortal but cud still live for ever but when he Jesus cane down he died and jehovah resurrected his son and gave him immortality so he has life in him self ?
Both of these guys have no idea what they're talking about.
You couldn't even get James "Brown's" name right. That plus this criticism of yours with NO examples proves you are functionally retarded.
@@CWJahTube
🤣Not at all , when i say " james brown," it is meant to be an insulting joke.
Of course I didn't lay down my rebuttal!!!!! Why?
because If I would have laid down my (foolproof) rebuttal, you would have never contacted me- why? Because your Logics wouldn't be able to survive the debate and you would have ignored my post..... now if you can't answer me, or ignore my post - you validate me, and my God.
I used the fact that you're a sociopath against you, making you feel the need to correct me
Just so you can try to validate yourself.
I came hear to crush your logics in front of all your followers and viewers.
Now, that i have your attention - ill give my rebuttal- please don't run like a coward...like most do.
GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, AND HE IS
NOT A MAN.
((Malachi 3:6))- God speaking.
6For I am the LORD, (((I change not;))) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
((Yashawn))
God does not change.
The text says- if God were to change,the jews would not recognize God, and then they would be consumed...so God stays the same.
((1 Samuel 15:29))
And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for ((He is not a man,)) that He should repent.'
((Hosea 11))- God speaking.
9) I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim:
(((for I am God, and not man;))) the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
((Numbers 23:19))- God speaking.
19((God is not a man,))that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
((Yashawn))
It is clearly proclaimed that God is not a man, and then God tells us why he\God is not a man....
you cant go against what God says about himself - how else could God tell us that he does not change, and that he is not a man?
(ABRAHAM DID NOT MEET A GOD MAN)
((Yashawn))
To understan the meeting that abraham had with the three angels we must understand what ELOHIM truly means.
THE MEANINING OF ELOHIM.
The Hebrew language is a gendered language. Peopel are either masculine or feminine individuals. To address a crowd of both male and female it is linguistically correct to call them all male
The word Elohim does in fact mean gods; however, the text is not Talking about GODS...
It is talking about the angels who carry Gods spirit .......just like Moses did.
If we read about Moses in the bible we can clearly see that God said to moses,
" You will be Elohim to the pharaoh."
This does not mean Moses was a Gods
Of many, it means moses had God with him, and if you have God with you then you are a God to the ones who do not have God with them....
(but your not a God.)
Kinda like how a woman is not a man, but she is called a man when she is with a masculin.
Even if it is ten girls, and one man, it would be proper to say,-
" you men,\ masculine in the plural.
Now apply the same thing with men and God- example
We have ten Men, with one God -
it would be proper to call the men (( elohime)) Godly in the plural.
This was a old way of speaking and most places dont speak like this any more- but the Israelites used to.
This is why some men and angels are called God.
@@CWJahTube
Oh and thank you for showing us all your rude side....... you are of your father Molech
@@CWJahTube
Not at all , when i say " james brown," it is meant to be a joke.
Of course I didn't lay down my rebuttal!!!!!? Why?
because If I would have laid down my (foolproof) rebuttal, you would have never contacted me- why? Because your Logics wouldn't be able to survive the debate and you would have ignored my post..... now if you can't answer me, or ignore my post - you validate me, and my God.
I used the fact that you're a sociopath against you, making you feel the need to correct me
Just so you can try to validate yourself.
I came hear to crush your logics in front of all your followers and viewers.
Now, that i have your attention - ill give my rebuttal- please don't run like a coward...like ppl most do.
GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, AND HE IS
NOT A MAN.
((Malachi 3:6))- God speaking.
6For I am the LORD, (((I change not;))) therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
((Yashawn))
God does not change.
The text says- if God were to change,the jews would not recognize God, and then they would be consumed...so God stays the same.
((1 Samuel 15:29))
And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for ((He is not a man,)) that He should repent.'
((Hosea 11))- God speaking.
9) I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim:
(((for I am God, and not man;))) the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
((Nubmbers 23:19))- God speaking.
19((God is not a man,))that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
((Yashawn))
It is clearly proclaimed that God is not a man, and then God tells us why he\God is not a man....
you cant go against what God says about himself - how else could God tell us that he does not change, and that he is not a man?
(ABRAHAM DID NOT MEET A GOD MAN)
((Yashawn))
To understand the meeting that abraham had with the three angels we must understand what Elohim truly means.
THE meaning OF ELOHIM.
The Hebrew language is a gendered language. Peopel are either masculine or feminine individuals. To address a crowd of both male and female it is linguistically correct to call them all male
The word Elohim does in fact mean gods; however, the text is not Talking about GODS...
It is talking about the angels who carry Gods spirit .......just like Moses did.
If we read about Moses in the bible we can clearly see that God said to moses,
" You will be Elohim to the pharaoh."
This does not mean Moses was a Gods
Of many, it means moses had God with him, and if you have God with you then you are a God to the ones who do not have God with them....
(but your not a God.)
Kinda like how a woman is not a man, but she is called a man when she is with a masculin.
Even if it is ten girls, and one man, it would be proper to say,-
" you men,\ masculine in the plural.
Now apply the same thing with men and God- example
We have ten Men, with one God -
it would be proper to call the men (( elohim)) Godly in the plural.
This was a old way of speaking and most places don't speak like this any more- but the Israelites used to.
This is why some men and angels are called God.