I'll keep supporting games that prioritize fun gameplay and good storytelling. If a game looks too preachy or forced in its messaging, I'll probably skip it or wait for a big sale. Gonna be more selective with my purchases and really pay attention to player reviews, not just critic scores. Might check out more indie games too - they really focus more on pure gaming without all the extra baggage. And if I start a game and it's not clicking because of these issues, I'll have no problem dropping it and moving on. No point wasting time on stuff I don't enjoy. I'll vote with my wallet and stick to the games that remember that.
Yeah, I get what you're saying about wokeness in games. It's definitely become more noticeable lately. Like in some recent big releases, it feels like the politics are front and center instead of just being part of the story. Remember how games used to handle this stuff more subtly? Now it's like you can guess the whole plot just from the character designs. I've noticed the same gap you mentioned between critic scores and player reviews too - that says a lot. It's cool when games have a message, but it shouldn't come at the cost of good gameplay or writing. Totally agree we should judge each game on its own though. Some still get it right, mixing in different perspectives without making it feel forced. But yeah, I think a lot of us just want to have fun when we play, you know? Maybe developers need to remember that.
Yeah, I'm all for games being treated as art, thought provoking or even trying out new things like Senua's Saga, but at the end of the day for most people it is a form of escapism, in one way or another. And like you said on the other comment, indie games will profit the most from it, as they can focus on a quality story, gameplay and good performance, as well as older games.
Disheartening that if a character like me was in a game it would be "political". I largely checked out of AAA slop a long time ago though, honestly baffles me as to who its meant to appeal to.
Woke has become this word which a lot of people seem to use for 'it has LGBTQ+/your PC is a woman/ there are POC in this game/oh no, politics'. I never saw it as a problem because even older games have those features and nobody ever complained. Besides, I hold the believe that in a way, politics is in everything and people complaining about politics in games nowadays just see it as 'MC isn't straight, white and/or male? Politics!', ignoring that even simple games can hold political messages like 'nukes are bad'. As you pointed out, the real problem isn't 'being woke' the real problem is bad writing which comes from a place of creative sterility and all those writers engaging in 'creative incest' (creative autogamy). They refuse to leave their own social circles and broaden their horizon, or write abour complicated topics with a variety of depth. It is all just black and white without shades of grey. As you point out yourself: nowadays you need to have an opinion about everything and anything. People need to start to learn that it is okay to say 'Oh I don't have an opinion about that right now, but I'll inform myself and educate myself and form my own opinion.' Also if you check up a lot of those writers backgrounds, especially for AAA games, you'll notice a trend. Getting into this space is hard, being a writer is hard, it is all about connections today and less about actual talent, if you know the right people and 'vibe' with them, you'll get a leg up in the business and the best way to get a leg up is by being as 'round' and non-edgy as possible, to appeal to the market and sell yourself.
I'm sure the "microaggressions" culture plays a role in the "creative incest." They likely avoid criticizing each other's work for fear of being perceived as "offensive." Which leads to an environment where only positive feedback is tolerated, and all the nuance and depth is lost in the process.
It’s good to see you’re promoting common sense: find your chill, learn some media literacy, and if you have criticisms, articulate them with intelligence, not words that have been co-opted and perverted by rightists pushing an agenda. Nothing revelatory, but still sound advice. The biggest takeaway is not every game is for every person. One person’s escapism-shattering “politics” is someone else’s impactful experience, both on the writer side AND the customer side, because of lived experiences, empathy, what have you. Either buy it or don’t. Folks raging about it online, however, is a sign of unhinged behavior. However, the issue you never fully contend with is that “woke” is a dog whistle for anything that isn’t pandered to the “real audience.” As you admitted in prior comments, that “real audience” is mostly male and, if we’re being honest, it’s straight, white males. While that has been the reality for the majority of video gaming’s history, the audience continues to expand and diversify with every new generation, revealing your own bias (resistance, even) against that emerging reality. This video wants to encourage healthy discourse about games, which is good. Sadly, you fall into the trappings of your own political leaning, dredging up the flimsy subjective reasoning and imagined boogeymen that many agenda-pushing, anti-woke folks routinely traffic.
imo: I do agree with your points, but it's also important to adress that game development, mostly the Triple A titles, they take a lot of time and money. The next Dragon Age it's in the making for 6 years i think, so making the game more approachable to every audience it's not only the developer intentions but a comercial strategy too, and some people may look at this as "woke" or an agenda, when what truly is happening is that the target audience changed and it's not only the cis-male gamer per say, as an example. The game needs to sell to everyone. Is also good to point out that, having an LGBTQ+ character in your game doesn't actually count as woke. I'm a leftist and fully support the LGBTQ+ community, and it is very noticeable when an agenda is being pushed for numbers alone. A good example of inclusivity in a game would be Lev in the Last of Us 2 for trans people, and a bad example would be the sisters in Wolfenstein Youngblood for a female lead.
Agree, AAA releases are so expensive and time consuming that they'll try pretty much everything to minimize risks. Like you said, one way to do this is make games more approachable (also making puzzles and navigation way easier, aim assists, etc.) to every audience, although I don't think the target audiences changed that much. I didn't mention LGBT characters (or diversity in general) because I don't see it as an issue. There are interesting and uninteresting characters regardless of their background. The only time it bothers me is when an existing character is retroactively changed to fit a diversity agenda, but then again, that could also fit as poor writing.
@@criticalpixels that's true. If you take a peak on Sakurai's channel about game design, he mentions in a video that marketing people can make decisions in games that are often a bad thing for the craft itself. These trends we see affects even haircuts in both women and man, is crazy to think about it, but marketing often has more hands on the game than the developers themselves, it seems
Well, the point with "representation" is that you have to consider the real life numbers and statistics, take the trans community for example, worldwide less than 1% of the population is identifying as trans so it doesn't really make sense to cater too much to them, sure in a fighting game with a roster of 100 or so characters it would make sense to have a trans character, but putting trans characters as the lead role into a AAA Title that wants to reach the biggest audience possible doesn't really make sense because if you have a trans sex scene or the characters only trait is that they are trans turns off more people than the idea of inclusion draws in because most people don't want to see that stuff even if they aren't hating trans people. It also depends on the setting of a game, sure a black lead in a game that takes place in modern day north America makes sense, but it wouldn't make sense in a game that is set in 14th century France or feudal Japan. Another point is the whole tone of a game and a great example is the stuf dontnod made, while the original life is strange has touched on woke topics it wasn't in your face, it was in fact really well made, but their later games LiS 2 and tell me why are so in the face with woke stuff that it ruined those games completely.
The biggest misconception about the anti woke crowd including me is that our arguments are viewed at a surface level without understanding where the frustration comes from. Truth is we han no problem with representation of anyone or anything if its natural or handled right. The main issue is how currently its being implemented in games today and what it replaces. It becomes a pattern and you cant unsee it. So its very easy to become jaded at every instance we see these things. For example, playing Final Fantasy VII Rebirth you could see a lot of it sprinkled all over even if its not intrusive it just stands out more even more so than Remake. It didn't ruin the game with me but it took me out the game a lot. Seen it in Star Wars Jedi Survivor too but again I enjoyed that game. Which brings me to my point. The race swaps, gender swaps, ugly women, conservative female clothing, forced lgbtq+ inserts, it poisons the well in gaming and when you finally notice it you cant unsee it. Its being forced in for the sake of agenda pushing and games take a hot in quality for it.
I tried to make this video as nuanced as possible because we often see comments that try to label any 'wokeness' debate as some sort of crazy conspiracy theory. Sure, there is some overreacting, but even the average folk who lays in the middle (or slightly left/right) is noticing it, and, like you said, it becomes a pattern. When you have that many people complaining, it's not just some collective madness. I'm really curious to see how a lot of the content made in past 6~8 years is going to age and how critics and new audiences will look at it 10~15 years from now.
The guys always yelling about "woke" are always the same guys yelling about age of consent laws. They're not worth taking seriously. At least until you see them hanging around the middle schools.
@@williamgeorge2580 Obvious projection. Random question: do you want the Epstein client list made public? Because the guys always yelling about "woke", do.
@@williamgeorge2580 And you have the statistics to prove it, or do you know all of them personally? I can agree that some of them can be rather odious, but to bunch all of them together smacks a bit too much of "inclusivity".
I'll keep supporting games that prioritize fun gameplay and good storytelling. If a game looks too preachy or forced in its messaging, I'll probably skip it or wait for a big sale. Gonna be more selective with my purchases and really pay attention to player reviews, not just critic scores. Might check out more indie games too - they really focus more on pure gaming without all the extra baggage. And if I start a game and it's not clicking because of these issues, I'll have no problem dropping it and moving on. No point wasting time on stuff I don't enjoy. I'll vote with my wallet and stick to the games that remember that.
Good old First World Problems.
Yeah, I get what you're saying about wokeness in games. It's definitely become more noticeable lately. Like in some recent big releases, it feels like the politics are front and center instead of just being part of the story. Remember how games used to handle this stuff more subtly? Now it's like you can guess the whole plot just from the character designs. I've noticed the same gap you mentioned between critic scores and player reviews too - that says a lot. It's cool when games have a message, but it shouldn't come at the cost of good gameplay or writing. Totally agree we should judge each game on its own though. Some still get it right, mixing in different perspectives without making it feel forced. But yeah, I think a lot of us just want to have fun when we play, you know? Maybe developers need to remember that.
Yeah, I'm all for games being treated as art, thought provoking or even trying out new things like Senua's Saga, but at the end of the day for most people it is a form of escapism, in one way or another. And like you said on the other comment, indie games will profit the most from it, as they can focus on a quality story, gameplay and good performance, as well as older games.
Disheartening that if a character like me was in a game it would be "political". I largely checked out of AAA slop a long time ago though, honestly baffles me as to who its meant to appeal to.
Woke has become this word which a lot of people seem to use for 'it has LGBTQ+/your PC is a woman/ there are POC in this game/oh no, politics'. I never saw it as a problem because even older games have those features and nobody ever complained.
Besides, I hold the believe that in a way, politics is in everything and people complaining about politics in games nowadays just see it as 'MC isn't straight, white and/or male? Politics!', ignoring that even simple games can hold political messages like 'nukes are bad'.
As you pointed out, the real problem isn't 'being woke' the real problem is bad writing which comes from a place of creative sterility and all those writers engaging in 'creative incest' (creative autogamy). They refuse to leave their own social circles and broaden their horizon, or write abour complicated topics with a variety of depth. It is all just black and white without shades of grey. As you point out yourself: nowadays you need to have an opinion about everything and anything. People need to start to learn that it is okay to say 'Oh I don't have an opinion about that right now, but I'll inform myself and educate myself and form my own opinion.'
Also if you check up a lot of those writers backgrounds, especially for AAA games, you'll notice a trend. Getting into this space is hard, being a writer is hard, it is all about connections today and less about actual talent, if you know the right people and 'vibe' with them, you'll get a leg up in the business and the best way to get a leg up is by being as 'round' and non-edgy as possible, to appeal to the market and sell yourself.
I'm sure the "microaggressions" culture plays a role in the "creative incest." They likely avoid criticizing each other's work for fear of being perceived as "offensive." Which leads to an environment where only positive feedback is tolerated, and all the nuance and depth is lost in the process.
8:40 What game is this?
Tinykin
It’s good to see you’re promoting common sense: find your chill, learn some media literacy, and if you have criticisms, articulate them with intelligence, not words that have been co-opted and perverted by rightists pushing an agenda. Nothing revelatory, but still sound advice.
The biggest takeaway is not every game is for every person. One person’s escapism-shattering “politics” is someone else’s impactful experience, both on the writer side AND the customer side, because of lived experiences, empathy, what have you. Either buy it or don’t. Folks raging about it online, however, is a sign of unhinged behavior.
However, the issue you never fully contend with is that “woke” is a dog whistle for anything that isn’t pandered to the “real audience.” As you admitted in prior comments, that “real audience” is mostly male and, if we’re being honest, it’s straight, white males. While that has been the reality for the majority of video gaming’s history, the audience continues to expand and diversify with every new generation, revealing your own bias (resistance, even) against that emerging reality.
This video wants to encourage healthy discourse about games, which is good. Sadly, you fall into the trappings of your own political leaning, dredging up the flimsy subjective reasoning and imagined boogeymen that many agenda-pushing, anti-woke folks routinely traffic.
imo:
I do agree with your points, but it's also important to adress that game development, mostly the Triple A titles, they take a lot of time and money. The next Dragon Age it's in the making for 6 years i think, so making the game more approachable to every audience it's not only the developer intentions but a comercial strategy too, and some people may look at this as "woke" or an agenda, when what truly is happening is that the target audience changed and it's not only the cis-male gamer per say, as an example. The game needs to sell to everyone.
Is also good to point out that, having an LGBTQ+ character in your game doesn't actually count as woke. I'm a leftist and fully support the LGBTQ+ community, and it is very noticeable when an agenda is being pushed for numbers alone. A good example of inclusivity in a game would be Lev in the Last of Us 2 for trans people, and a bad example would be the sisters in Wolfenstein Youngblood for a female lead.
Agree, AAA releases are so expensive and time consuming that they'll try pretty much everything to minimize risks. Like you said, one way to do this is make games more approachable (also making puzzles and navigation way easier, aim assists, etc.) to every audience, although I don't think the target audiences changed that much.
I didn't mention LGBT characters (or diversity in general) because I don't see it as an issue. There are interesting and uninteresting characters regardless of their background. The only time it bothers me is when an existing character is retroactively changed to fit a diversity agenda, but then again, that could also fit as poor writing.
@@criticalpixels that's true. If you take a peak on Sakurai's channel about game design, he mentions in a video that marketing people can make decisions in games that are often a bad thing for the craft itself. These trends we see affects even haircuts in both women and man, is crazy to think about it, but marketing often has more hands on the game than the developers themselves, it seems
@@ma_bueno The design by committee approach. Sounds good on paper, but almost never works...
Well, the point with "representation" is that you have to consider the real life numbers and statistics, take the trans community for example, worldwide less than 1% of the population is identifying as trans so it doesn't really make sense to cater too much to them, sure in a fighting game with a roster of 100 or so characters it would make sense to have a trans character, but putting trans characters as the lead role into a AAA Title that wants to reach the biggest audience possible doesn't really make sense because if you have a trans sex scene or the characters only trait is that they are trans turns off more people than the idea of inclusion draws in because most people don't want to see that stuff even if they aren't hating trans people.
It also depends on the setting of a game, sure a black lead in a game that takes place in modern day north America makes sense, but it wouldn't make sense in a game that is set in 14th century France or feudal Japan.
Another point is the whole tone of a game and a great example is the stuf dontnod made, while the original life is strange has touched on woke topics it wasn't in your face, it was in fact really well made, but their later games LiS 2 and tell me why are so in the face with woke stuff that it ruined those games completely.
The biggest misconception about the anti woke crowd including me is that our arguments are viewed at a surface level without understanding where the frustration comes from. Truth is we han no problem with representation of anyone or anything if its natural or handled right. The main issue is how currently its being implemented in games today and what it replaces. It becomes a pattern and you cant unsee it. So its very easy to become jaded at every instance we see these things.
For example, playing Final Fantasy VII Rebirth you could see a lot of it sprinkled all over even if its not intrusive it just stands out more even more so than Remake. It didn't ruin the game with me but it took me out the game a lot. Seen it in Star Wars Jedi Survivor too but again I enjoyed that game.
Which brings me to my point. The race swaps, gender swaps, ugly women, conservative female clothing, forced lgbtq+ inserts, it poisons the well in gaming and when you finally notice it you cant unsee it. Its being forced in for the sake of agenda pushing and games take a hot in quality for it.
I tried to make this video as nuanced as possible because we often see comments that try to label any 'wokeness' debate as some sort of crazy conspiracy theory. Sure, there is some overreacting, but even the average folk who lays in the middle (or slightly left/right) is noticing it, and, like you said, it becomes a pattern. When you have that many people complaining, it's not just some collective madness. I'm really curious to see how a lot of the content made in past 6~8 years is going to age and how critics and new audiences will look at it 10~15 years from now.
I used to dislike wokeness in games. Then I found out that it drives the worst people in the world crazy. Now I don’t mind it so much. 😉
I like non-woke normal games for the same reason. And luckily, we are winning.
So you support sub-par games just to spite people you don't like? Right...
The guys always yelling about "woke" are always the same guys yelling about age of consent laws. They're not worth taking seriously.
At least until you see them hanging around the middle schools.
@@williamgeorge2580 Obvious projection. Random question: do you want the Epstein client list made public? Because the guys always yelling about "woke", do.
@@williamgeorge2580 And you have the statistics to prove it, or do you know all of them personally? I can agree that some of them can be rather odious, but to bunch all of them together smacks a bit too much of "inclusivity".
First