I like your calc and consistency arguments and evidence, but some debate goon could dismiss the calcs or disagree with the initial speeds or call it calc stacking to sort of negate that argument. Not saying it's bad, but people go above and beyond to try and downplay or debunk sometimes My go to argument for Bleach lightspeed is the Kishi/Reishi explanation. Kishi I physical matter, Reishi is just the spiritual version of physical matter. Spirit particles are almost exactly the same as normal particles/matter. Spiritual Ice = Physical Ice, Spiritual Fire = Physical Fire, Spiritual Lightning = Physical Lightning, Physical Light = Spiritual Light Now, the reason why I said 'almost' the same is because Reishi/Spiritual Matter could either be converted into raw energy itself (Quincy) or enhanced with Spiritual energy to go beyond the normal stats (Everyone). Like Toshiro's Ice being > Normal ice thanks to his spiritual energy enhancing it. Same for Yama. Candice's lightning was directly stated to be >>> Natural Lightning when she poured energy into it, and could damage arguably multi continental or higher beings, despite normal Lightning being like building level Base Ceros without any reiryoku enhancement would be light speed, which is why Gillian's can be reacted to by pre Shikai Ichigo, while Ulq's Ceros can blitz Bankai masked Ichigo etc
To me it's pretty clear that kubo intended for bleach characters to be ftl, there are multiple times when things are referred to as light, from cero, to negacion, to lille barro, it seems that the intent was for lieutenant level shinigami and above to be beyond lightspeed and author intent in my opinion trumps everything else
@@pacmiller7564 I agree that there’s alot of bleach down-players most in the big 3 but they make it hard for the actual reasonable ppl(like me) who actually wants to use Legit feats… I push ftl bleach heavy but I don’t think Ceros are light speed( JUST MY OPTION BTW)even from like just enjoying the show & not debating I never once thought of it being like that but that’s just me, But for ceros not be LS it’s just the lack of information Ig. One it’s stated to be spiritual light that isn’t enough for it being the sol, light base attacks ≠ LS and saying a fictional light should be light speed is you appealing to real life light as your connecting the two speed with that ppl can debunk it with the same logic everything for light haves its reasoning and properties to assert it has the same speed it should have the same properties for speed. One being no mass..Ceros are able to cause physical damage the physical objects showing force = mass light are made of photons what move at one set speed the speed of light due to it being massless this goes on to my second reasoning as Photons have 1 SPEED ceros don’t as they scale to the user btw this has nothing to do with the original video I’m not trying to debunk his scale(As I didn’t finish it) but your comment
@@霊王-y6k in all media were they are used light based attacks either incinerate,pierce cleanly through bodies,or explode everytime with no exception so why is it a problem in bleach when cero's do the same thing
@@霊王-y6k I to agree that ceroes are not LS but Negacion and Lille Barros attacks definitely were. However I am sure Lieutenants were relativistic in speed from SS arc itself bcoz of Negacion feat.
You would be surprised by how many people I have seen claim that Bleach characters are only lightning speed or less. Even ignoring the fact that the characters have been shown dodging light, the official French translation for one of the Bleach data books states that Gin and Toshiro were fighting at the speed of light in their encounter in chapter 132 of the manga. They aren't even the fastest characters in the series, and there are other characters that get WAAAY faster.
@@gamu1651 The English version just says they fought at "godlike speeds." I don't know about the Japanese version, but I'm pretty sure it's the same, or at least similar, as the French version. Viz's English translations can be pretty doo-doo.
"In the most clear cut manga page ever" yeah no, the only that was shown is the change of position after the realisation of the wall breaking down Cleary by his reaction. You make it seem as if there's a manga panel of light almost touching him then he leaps, but there objectively isn't.
Cero is basically a laser, some lasers can blast through buildings and still be lightspeed, really don't understand this argument with having force ≠ lightspeed
You don't understand the argument because that is not my argument. My argument is that Bleach characters have been shown to have lightspeed feats without the use of ceros, therefore it is more likely that ceros are lightspeed.
they blast through buildings by evaporating or burning things in the way light dosnt have any mass so it cant actully push you back wich is why lasers dont push things back they burn them
@@pacmiller7564 they can wanna disregard it all they wanna it’s blatantly obvious and hardly debunked bc who in the series not doing some form of ftl feat
Can you guys explain why cero is light speed in your opinion? people said if lava emits light then it's light speed but thats not the case but isn't this debunked cuz cero are infact made of light.
The speed in bleach is hard because shunswi a person you claim to be faster than light had a hard time dogging lazars in TYBW. Plus nobody moves long distances at the speed of light.
Just from basic calculations and no wank the full hollification ichigo that beat Ulquiorra in his second release should be a million times the speed of light. If I’m correct in saying that ichigo’s bankai and regular hollofication mask are 10x multipliers and base ichigo had to atleast get 100x stronger than he was when he first learned his bankai because of his ability to fight grimmjows release state and win with his mask on when in their first encounter ichigo with his mask on lost to base grimmjow. And a similar thing with ulquiorra. Then the full hollification ichigo has to be atleast 100 times ichigo’s mask transformation that first form ulquiorra was destroying.
8:43 its stated that spiritual things have the same properties as physical things but can be different from them like how spiritual fire can burn sand and air and still be fire when its impossible for physical fire so yeah it can be light and light speed and have mass ect.
@@hypnotic_o I dont think u even know the true power of the verse lmao, there are countless of proofs and statements and feats that prove the verse scales infinitely higher than Universal.
Here's an interesting piece of information that I found out, the official French translation for one of the Bleach data books says that Gin and Toshiro were fighting at the speed of light in their encounter in chapter 132. Meanwhile, the official English translation for the same data book just says they fought at "god-like speeds."
The French means nothing. God like speeds can be open to interpretation, but I will not trust someone so desperate they needed to rely on a French translation. Not even any other languages, just French.
i like to use the nagashion scaling but one scaling i have seen is that flash step as a technique should have in theory irrelevant speed and characters can react to flash stepping characters
I mean it really should when it's called spiritual light just because it's spiritual doesn't mean iys slower than physical light when in bleach spiritual things predates the physical ones heck the sunlight in soul society is also spiritual
@@footy743 lmao ofc he is... You can even argue immeasurable speed, there are many goons who dont understand and know the true power of Bleach and downplay it for no reason like dumbasses
My only question is the Gin statement during the fake karakura town he states that his bankai is only march 500 and ichigo was kinda struggling with it and wasnt able to fully react until he went his hollow-faction
Another excellent video. You just earned a new subscriber. And I love the song that starts playing at 9:51 . I'm surprised though that you didn't mention the fact that Quincy arrows are directly stated to be "Rays of Light" about 4 or 5 times in the Canon sources, which I have the scans of. And I have scans of Ichigo, in the first arc of Bleach, casually blitzing and deflecting these Quincy arrows made from Rays of Light without even looking. Just to prove your point even more concrete that even without Ceros Bleachverse is still casually ftl in the first arc of Bleach.
@@livingrentfree9596 It's not just normal "light", It's "Spiritual Light", Or in other words light made of "Rieshi" and not "photons" Which most may not think is a big deal except the fact that I have a scan which states that "all of the elements made from Reishi(Spiritual Particles) far surpass the Elements made of the normal physical Matter in every attribute." Spiritual Light Speed>>>>>>Physical light Speed By default, And on top of that, Quincy and all Bleach characters have the ability to charge all of the Spiritual Elements, which amps all the elements stats even more. They amp the spiritual elements by combining their own Spiritual Energy with it. So by default spiritual light is already faster than Normal light, and on top of that Quincy charge their light arrows to make them even faster and more powerful. Because of this the power and speed of the arrows vary between each Quincy based on how much spiritual energy they possess. Whoever has more spiritual energy produce faster and more powerful Light Arrows. But by default the arrows are already faster than light according to Canon sources before they even begin amping their speed and power with their spiritual energy just by the fact that they are made of Spiritual Matter and not Physical matters, stated in Canon.
@@magnaz26 Most of what you argued still doesn't even matter. My argument is that Quincy's "spiritual light" arrows aren't FTL just because of them being called spiritual light, but the speed depends on the attack speed of the user. If I have a sword made up of light, and I swing it at someone and they dodge, just because the weapon im wielding is made of light doesn't mean its the actual speed is light.
@@livingrentfree9596 Let me repeat this again, The Quincy arrows are not just constructs of light While in motion the arrows are directly stated to be "Rays of Light". When fired the Data book states they are firing "Rays of Light". When dodged it states in the Data Book that they dodged "Rays of Light" Light Rays move at Light speed at minimum. This term "Rays of Light" in reference to the Quincy arrows is stated 3-5 times in the Canon sources and I have all 3-5 scans so my case is solid
Let me tell you something Ichigo was nerfed by soul reaper badge by 80%. Let me tell you how. We know when a leutinant and captain com on the world of living the are sealed by 80%. Characters like rangiku aren't as strong as ichigo with nerfed form bankai because character like leutinant and captain were said to be shake or destroy the planet if they were no sealed ans suppressing their spritual pressure that means ichigo was only at 20% of his power since he had his soul reaper badge which means ichigo in every form gets a 5× multiplier which applies to speed too. So do that to ichigo's speed and now he is like many more times faster than speed of light.
I don't know why people think naruto can beat Ichigo, Speed, taking war arc naruto, he's light speed confirmed, Ichigo has shown to be capible of ftl speeds. Naruto can destroy a Country? Well ichigo In his fight with ulquiorra causally stoped and overpowered multiple attacks that can destroy Australia (also If you wanna use hell verse scaling this ver of him is planet level due to statements) and we're way past that part of the series. He's surpassed that strength more than 20 times over. Stamina? Naruto was half dead after the war ark and fighting sasuke. The war was one day and he got power ups and healed a few times throughout it. Ichigo quite literally faught zangetsu for three days strait and then went on to immediately save rukia in the second ark of the series and when in the dongai with his dad he faught zangetsu for months. Naruto has nothing in his Arsenal that can overcome ichigo, and ichigo can deal with all of Naruto's 4 attacks.
Saying Ichigo's feat in Hellverse is planetary is an absolute downplay. Hell is stated to be a multiverse in a concept art and Ichigo was going to destroy it. The bigger downplay you can do with it is saying it was a galaxy-level feat.
That's why calc staking is a bad way to measure speed, lightning speed was still relevant till the last arc and there are 0 statements about all the light attacks in bleach moving actually at the speed of light
Yes there are statements of bleach moving the speed of light I mentioned in the video. And lightning speed is not relevant you can find me a single character that was tagged or blitzed by a lightning speed attack.
Correct me if I'm wrong but before ichigo sliced through all of senbonzakuras petals, byakuya explains how there are "billions" of petals and that's plural so I always assumed ichigo sliced through 2 billion petals at the minimum. Not 100 million. But if the data book says otherwise then I don't know why byakuya would say 2 billion and be wrong considering it's his zanpakuto so he should know more than anyone.
Regardless, even if the 100 million is accurate, thats still impossibly fast to deal with the way Ichigo did. Arguing over 100million vs billions is proof humans can't understand big numbers. 100million is ridiculously huge.
@@abbacuspotter9232 I agree 100 million is huge but its still crumbs compared to 2 billion. It's still crumbs compared to just one billion. The gap between 100 million to a billion is insanely big so that's why its important to get the facts right. Ichigo slicing 2 billion petals dwarfs 100 million but I get what you're saying.
Pre SS Arc Ichigo reacted to Cero from a Menos. Bankai Ichigo who is 10x faster than his pre-SS arc version is compared to lightning speed. So, no. Ceros are NOT lightspeed.
Cero are light speed of the fact that thier literally called beams of light and guess what speed beams of light move at i promise you wont get the answer they move at light speed shocker I know and depending of the characters they can increase the speed at which they move at to mave them even faster by dumping in more Reriyouku 🤯🤯🤯
If you wanna say ooh ceros have mass so it can be light speed, bruh goku has mass all characters have mass and yet we see them going light speed and faster
one argument for ceros not being lightspeed is that people can see them coming straight at them, meaning light (from the cero) reaches the person before the cero itself. If they were actually lightspeed or faster, the cero would hit the person at the same time they saw it, or the image would be after the cero as cherenkov radiation (kinda like a sonic boom for light). The same goes for viewing them from the side, light reaches the viewer before the cero hits the target (If ceros were beams of light we would only be able to see them reflected of things like dirt and water particles, but they have force so they'd push such particles out the way). I always saw ceros more like solid light or (varying in speed between supersonic and lightspeed) and the bleach world still having lightspeed as a hard limit. Moving at supersonic speeds is still impressive as hell, and it gets harder to do the faster you go. It kinda feels like AoT where they exaggerate scale for drama; it's entertaining
They aren't true shikai ichigo was getting tagged by meninas and couldn't even see candice was holding 6 swords and not 2,plus her common attacks were stated to be much slower than lightning speed
Ichigo was not looking at meninas when she tagged him he was off guard. The second statement is false and he arrows where stated to be slower than lightning which are considered fodder in every instance there shown.
@@kevin-hv1se true but a lot of people use the statement as Ichigo is lightning speed at that moment I believe that during a single flash step he could get up to that speed but I don't think that that was the speed that he was constantly moving at
@Allen Grove my comment got removed not sure why, but there is scan of ishida moving so fast before his shadow disappears which proves he is light speed since he moved so fast before light get to touch the ground
@@azaanhussain1724 Gin's character is consistently deceptive. It makes no sense for him to tell Ichigo the truth, especially since he didn't tell Ichigo what exactly his Bankai can do. Ichigo just assumed that it was the speed he had to worry about, and Gin threw a random arbitrary number as if Ichigo can comprehend how fast that is.
De donde sacan tanta mierda estos fanboys de Bleach. Acaso se hacen una idea de lo que significaría moverse a la velocidad de la luz, si se movieran a la velocidad de la luz podrian dar la vuelta al planeta en un parpadeo. Demuestrenme una hazaña del universo de Bleach que tan siquiera se acerque un poco a eso.
Ever heard of artistic liberty? Because it seems like you haven't. If that were shown, fights wouldn't be allat interesting. By your logic, 90% of all anime characters which have lightspeed feats don't as they don't traverse huge distances in an instant at basically any point in the story. Its practically common sense in scaling to not consider the fact that characters who are speculated to be ftl would travel absolutely enormous distances while fighting or moving. Being able to move at lightspeed doesn't necessarily mean that a character can move at that speed for even as long as a second.
@@heavenlyway108 He says he lied about his bankai ability in chapter 414 of the manga. And in the official French translation for "Bleach Character Book MASKED", it confirms that Gin and Toshiro fought at the speed of light in the Soul Society arc. Eat crow. 🥱
@@powerscallingfiend That's not at all what that means. It's ability has nothing to do with speed. If you actually read the chapter, he says that his blade turns into dust _"for an instant"_ the moment it expands and contracts. And that there's a deadly poison that dissolves cells inside the blade.
The problem is we cant generalize that. Ulquiorras Cero for example is much faster then Grimmjows not to mention the speed of Ulquiorras Lanca Del Relanpago. But we can calculate a little how fast Ceros are by using Sonido as example. Sonido pretty much means "Sound" in Spain so that movement makes you minimum as fast as Sound. Sonido and Flash Step are pretty much the saame but Sonido is supposed to be a little faster by nature. Ichigo when using Flash Step barely can dodge or Block incoming Sonidos and we know that Ichigo is one of the fastest Flash Step users at this point. However once Ulquiorra was in his first release he couldnt doge his Cero anymore let alone those Semi Relanpagos. He dodged one Lance but didnt even notice that a second one has been thrown. Ulquiorras Cero couldnt be evaded so he had to block it. So Ceros get stronger and faster depending on the Spiritual Power of the user. Now we get into Segunda Etapa and Vasto Lorde White. Those two are in fact the first two characters shown in Bleach with Light Speed. Ichigo couldnt even react when Ulquiorra crapped his head from the side because he believed he was coming from the front. You could compare that with Gokus Instand Transmision where Ulquiorra just pops out and back in somewhere else thats how fast he was at that moment. Vasto Lorde White on the other hand was slightly faster then Ulquiorra and he could even evade Lanca Del Relanpago without even using Sonido or anything he just side stepped. So those two are already as fast as light without even using Movement Techniques. So yeah its not really possible scaling the speed of techniques and attacks because it strongly depends on who uses it. We already have the same problem with who has the fastes Shunpo (flash Step). Soi Fong is supposed to be the fastes Captain but we all know that Shunsiu is much faster then her and Yamamoto even complimentet Shunsuis Shunpo Skills. Ukitake was equaly as fast as Shunsui. So there are at least two Captains faster then Soi Fong not including Ex Captain Yoruichi and Captain Commander Yamamoto himself. Or how Zaraki and Unohana managed to become "Kenpachi" when Yamamoto is around who clearly is the strongest in everything no matter how you look at it. Scaling in Bleach is not possible. The Characters themself dont give a shit and do what ever the fuck they want so why bother ? Hell i wouldnt be surprised if Zaraki all of a sudden becomes Kido Grandmaster. x,D
Gotta disagree, it does depend on the user but we already have a baseline for Cero, Sonido, etc being the Speed of Light. You just need to take the weakest example of a character using, dodging, etc and take them as the baseline speed of light then scale off them. We have multipliers and we have character feats between and against one another, so it isn't impossible nor uniquely difficult to scale. You've just got to have an eye for detail and be ready to dive back to the earliest chapters to begin scaling like most other series. Also the "fastest Captain", "hardest Hierro" etc probably refers to their base forms. Releases are generally pegged at 5x for Shikai and 10x for Bankai (stacks) but they're not necessarily balanced and it can be easy to see where some of that power went rather than a direct multiplier to everything (Sui Feng's Bazooka for instance). Also you don't seem to actually know what a Kenpachi is? It isn't just the strongest nigga, hell where'd you get the idea Yamamoto was the strongest full-stop? Yamamoto was well out of his prime by the time Unohana and Zaraki were around not to mention Kenpachi isn't just the strongest. It's the stronger of Captains willing to dive into the criminal underbelly and do the Court Guard's dirty work.
@@bruhtonbruhkkinson6848 You didnt understand anything at all mate.If we take the pure base of anything we would land on some no name charcters that get killed right away without doing anything THATS how weak the "baseline" is. And again the baseline for Sonido IS NOT light but Sound. Sonido literally translates into "Sound" for a reason. Now the base form argument. Ulquiorra can block a full power masked Getsuga with his bare hands and when he does get hit he only has a scratch. Ulquiorras Hierro is much stronger then the other Espadas And the so called fastes Espada got beaten by Byakuya whi in fact is slower then Ichigo and Ulquiorra never was faced by Ichigos speed at all which means he is also faster then the so called fastes. The base forms dont tell us shit. Same goes for the Captains because Shunsui is faster then Soi Fong in his base Form. Now Yamamoto. The Question is do you know what Kenpachi means ? Its a Title given to the "strongest" in each generation. Now i quote Yamamoto:" In the past 1000 years no Shinigami stronger then me has been born." You notice something ? The reason why he is still head Captain in his old age is because there is no one stronger then him even now when he is old. That was flat out stated in the show mate. Also no Kenpachi is not a "Strongest Captain" title because Unohana already had that title when they still were a bunch of criminals and murderers long before Soul Society and there Yamamoto was still in his Prime. Maybe get your knowledge of the show right before arguing with someone about it. Seems like my eye for detail was superior against your this time. ;)
dont forgot the gin statment wich if it is true(the data book seems to suggest its true but dosnt outright claim it is) than bleach top tiers move at 500 times the speed of light
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: This video
Great work.
They are objectively light speed though. It's stated in the data books that they are, in-fact, light.
I like your calc and consistency arguments and evidence, but some debate goon could dismiss the calcs or disagree with the initial speeds or call it calc stacking to sort of negate that argument. Not saying it's bad, but people go above and beyond to try and downplay or debunk sometimes
My go to argument for Bleach lightspeed is the Kishi/Reishi explanation. Kishi I physical matter, Reishi is just the spiritual version of physical matter. Spirit particles are almost exactly the same as normal particles/matter. Spiritual Ice = Physical Ice, Spiritual Fire = Physical Fire, Spiritual Lightning = Physical Lightning, Physical Light = Spiritual Light
Now, the reason why I said 'almost' the same is because Reishi/Spiritual Matter could either be converted into raw energy itself (Quincy) or enhanced with Spiritual energy to go beyond the normal stats (Everyone).
Like Toshiro's Ice being > Normal ice thanks to his spiritual energy enhancing it. Same for Yama. Candice's lightning was directly stated to be >>> Natural Lightning when she poured energy into it, and could damage arguably multi continental or higher beings, despite normal Lightning being like building level
Base Ceros without any reiryoku enhancement would be light speed, which is why Gillian's can be reacted to by pre Shikai Ichigo, while Ulq's Ceros can blitz Bankai masked Ichigo etc
I agree
This is a pretty smart way of looking at it. Thanks.
You deserve more views thank you for uploading !!
To me it's pretty clear that kubo intended for bleach characters to be ftl, there are multiple times when things are referred to as light, from cero, to negacion, to lille barro, it seems that the intent was for lieutenant level shinigami and above to be beyond lightspeed and author intent in my opinion trumps everything else
Yes author intent trumps everything else these people just use semantics in order to downplay bleach
@@pacmiller7564 I agree that there’s alot of bleach down-players most in the big 3 but they make it hard for the actual reasonable ppl(like me) who actually wants to use Legit feats… I push ftl bleach heavy but I don’t think Ceros are light speed( JUST MY OPTION BTW)even from like just enjoying the show & not debating I never once thought of it being like that but that’s just me, But for ceros not be LS it’s just the lack of information Ig. One it’s stated to be spiritual light that isn’t enough for it being the sol, light base attacks ≠ LS and saying a fictional light should be light speed is you appealing to real life light as your connecting the two speed with that ppl can debunk it with the same logic everything for light haves its reasoning and properties to assert it has the same speed it should have the same properties for speed. One being no mass..Ceros are able to cause physical damage the physical objects showing force = mass light are made of photons what move at one set speed the speed of light due to it being massless this goes on to my second reasoning as Photons have 1 SPEED ceros don’t as they scale to the user btw this has nothing to do with the original video I’m not trying to debunk his scale(As I didn’t finish it) but your comment
@@霊王-y6k in all media were they are used light based attacks either incinerate,pierce cleanly through bodies,or explode everytime with no exception so why is it a problem in bleach when cero's do the same thing
@@pacmiller7564 then those aren’t light
@@霊王-y6k I to agree that ceroes are not LS but Negacion and Lille Barros attacks definitely were. However I am sure Lieutenants were relativistic in speed from SS arc itself bcoz of Negacion feat.
9th Espada dodged literal light in the most clear cut manga page ever
Ceros being around light speed or above is not controversial at all
You would be surprised by how many people I have seen claim that Bleach characters are only lightning speed or less. Even ignoring the fact that the characters have been shown dodging light, the official French translation for one of the Bleach data books states that Gin and Toshiro were fighting at the speed of light in their encounter in chapter 132 of the manga. They aren't even the fastest characters in the series, and there are other characters that get WAAAY faster.
@@Grognackdoes the official japanese or english translation state that gin and toshiro was fighting at light speed?
@@gamu1651 The English version just says they fought at "godlike speeds." I don't know about the Japanese version, but I'm pretty sure it's the same, or at least similar, as the French version. Viz's English translations can be pretty doo-doo.
"In the most clear cut manga page ever" yeah no, the only that was shown is the change of position after the realisation of the wall breaking down Cleary by his reaction. You make it seem as if there's a manga panel of light almost touching him then he leaps, but there objectively isn't.
Nice one bro! Sad to see the number of views and subscribers. You deserve more.
I love your channel brother, keep up the impressive work, bleach gets downplayed alot haters need to stop such behaviour, im grateful for this channel
This can be summed as the following. Someone asked Kubo this question, and he said yes. Done
Yes. And they destroy absolutely everything too. The only thing that determines if you don't get destroyed or not is how much reiatsu you have.
underated
Cero is basically a laser, some lasers can blast through buildings and still be lightspeed, really don't understand this argument with having force ≠ lightspeed
You don't understand the argument because that is not my argument. My argument is that Bleach characters have been shown to have lightspeed feats without the use of ceros, therefore it is more likely that ceros are lightspeed.
@@shonenkon2456 my comment wasn't even about your argument, I just commented on that I think the argument of having force ≠ lightspeed is kinda meh
@@黒い達人 then dragon ball is like..
idk stupid?
I agree, we have examples of light in real life being able to blow stuff up while still maintaining it's light speed:
Like you said "Lasers".
they blast through buildings by evaporating or burning things in the way
light dosnt have any mass so it cant actully push you back wich is why lasers dont push things back they burn them
Excellent vid my guy I been arguing Bleach lightspeed FOREVER people wanna act stupid so they can downplay
That's the most annoying thing about arguing cero's being light speed is that people simply disregard the evidence
@@pacmiller7564 they can wanna disregard it all they wanna it’s blatantly obvious and hardly debunked bc who in the series not doing some form of ftl feat
@@kingsushi1280 😂facts
Can you guys explain why cero is light speed in your opinion? people said if lava emits light then it's light speed but thats not the case but isn't this debunked cuz cero are infact made of light.
The speed in bleach is hard because shunswi a person you claim to be faster than light had a hard time dogging lazars in TYBW. Plus nobody moves long distances at the speed of light.
Nobody what lol
Just from basic calculations and no wank the full hollification ichigo that beat Ulquiorra in his second release should be a million times the speed of light. If I’m correct in saying that ichigo’s bankai and regular hollofication mask are 10x multipliers and base ichigo had to atleast get 100x stronger than he was when he first learned his bankai because of his ability to fight grimmjows release state and win with his mask on when in their first encounter ichigo with his mask on lost to base grimmjow. And a similar thing with ulquiorra. Then the full hollification ichigo has to be atleast 100 times ichigo’s mask transformation that first form ulquiorra was destroying.
That was only partial shihaksho too. His full strength Vasto Lordes would have been MUCH more powerful.
8:43 its stated that spiritual things have the same properties as physical things but can be different from them like how spiritual fire can burn sand and air and still be fire when its impossible for physical fire so yeah it can be light and light speed and have mass ect.
I love your videos. I believe they are lightspeed. I also believe ichigo and aizen scale to uni.
Fax
They scale way way higher than Uni tho.
@@bazo8275 well they can be scaled higher but it’s highly contentious
@@hypnotic_o I dont think u even know the true power of the verse lmao, there are countless of proofs and statements and feats that prove the verse scales infinitely higher than Universal.
@@bazo8275 I do understand completely how strong they are lmao
Here's an interesting piece of information that I found out, the official French translation for one of the Bleach data books says that Gin and Toshiro were fighting at the speed of light in their encounter in chapter 132.
Meanwhile, the official English translation for the same data book just says they fought at "god-like speeds."
Could you send that to me
@@shonenkon2456 For whatever reason, my comments keep getting deleted.
I guarantee you that someone on twitter will have the scan.
The French means nothing. God like speeds can be open to interpretation, but I will not trust someone so desperate they needed to rely on a French translation. Not even any other languages, just French.
@@GrognackHello, I want to tell you that I have the scan where I can send it to you, you have discord
i like to use the nagashion scaling but one scaling i have seen is that flash step as a technique should have in theory irrelevant speed and characters can react to flash stepping characters
I mean it really should when it's called spiritual light just because it's spiritual doesn't mean iys slower than physical light when in bleach spiritual things predates the physical ones heck the sunlight in soul society is also spiritual
Somehow someone named simplytroy said yhwach is subsonic
We both know yhwach is infinite speed 🥱🥱🥱
@@footy743 lmao ofc he is... You can even argue immeasurable speed, there are many goons who dont understand and know the true power of Bleach and downplay it for no reason like dumbasses
Dude: Yhwach is subsonic
Yhwach crossing an hyperverse in a little amount of time: *am I a joke to you*
br hyperverse?
tysm, you make bleach look so op and it so nice to knwo cero so op lol :)
Just subscribed. great bleach content! 👍
My only question is the Gin statement during the fake karakura town he states that his bankai is only march 500 and ichigo was kinda struggling with it and wasnt able to fully react until he went his hollow-faction
x.com/shonenkon/status/1687833887920009216?s=46&t=PnZxq49MvPb_ChKxZPQ8WQ
@@shonenkon2456 thank you for clarifying my confusion 💯💯, it make sense too because it seemed like he was playing mind games on Ichigo
Another excellent video. You just earned a new subscriber. And I love the song that starts playing at 9:51 .
I'm surprised though that you didn't mention the fact that Quincy arrows are directly stated to be "Rays of Light" about 4 or 5 times in the Canon sources, which I have the scans of.
And I have scans of Ichigo, in the first arc of Bleach, casually blitzing and deflecting these Quincy arrows made from Rays of Light without even looking.
Just to prove your point even more concrete that even without Ceros Bleachverse is still casually ftl in the first arc of Bleach.
Quincy arrows are only constructs of light. What matters is the speed of how the arrows are fired.
@@livingrentfree9596
It's not just normal "light",
It's "Spiritual Light",
Or in other words light made of "Rieshi" and not "photons"
Which most may not think is a big deal except the fact that I have a scan which states that "all of the elements made from Reishi(Spiritual Particles) far surpass the Elements made of the normal physical Matter in every attribute."
Spiritual Light Speed>>>>>>Physical light Speed
By default,
And on top of that, Quincy and all Bleach characters have the ability to charge all of the Spiritual Elements, which amps all the elements stats even more. They amp the spiritual elements by combining their own Spiritual Energy with it.
So by default spiritual light is already faster than Normal light, and on top of that Quincy charge their light arrows to make them even faster and more powerful.
Because of this the power and speed of the arrows vary between each Quincy based on how much spiritual energy they possess. Whoever has more spiritual energy produce faster and more powerful Light Arrows.
But by default the arrows are already faster than light according to Canon sources before they even begin amping their speed and power with their spiritual energy just by the fact that they are made of Spiritual Matter and not Physical matters, stated in Canon.
@@magnaz26 Most of what you argued still doesn't even matter. My argument is that Quincy's "spiritual light" arrows aren't FTL just because of them being called spiritual light, but the speed depends on the attack speed of the user. If I have a sword made up of light, and I swing it at someone and they dodge, just because the weapon im wielding is made of light doesn't mean its the actual speed is light.
@@livingrentfree9596
Let me repeat this again,
The Quincy arrows are not just constructs of light
While in motion the arrows are directly stated to be "Rays of Light".
When fired the Data book states they are firing "Rays of Light".
When dodged it states in the Data Book that they dodged "Rays of Light"
Light Rays move at Light speed at minimum.
This term "Rays of Light" in reference to the Quincy arrows is stated 3-5 times in the Canon sources and I have all 3-5 scans so my case is solid
@@magnaz26 proof that Physical Light is fast as real light
Let me tell you something Ichigo was nerfed by soul reaper badge by 80%. Let me tell you how. We know when a leutinant and captain com on the world of living the are sealed by 80%. Characters like rangiku aren't as strong as ichigo with nerfed form bankai because character like leutinant and captain were said to be shake or destroy the planet if they were no sealed ans suppressing their spritual pressure that means ichigo was only at 20% of his power since he had his soul reaper badge which means ichigo in every form gets a 5× multiplier which applies to speed too. So do that to ichigo's speed and now he is like many more times faster than speed of light.
Some idiot said the negacion is light but doesnt move at light speed like how
And it's confimed now
My friends just said that nobody in bleach is lightspeed
W vid
This is a great video and explains things very well!
Some are some are not.
I don't know why people think naruto can beat Ichigo,
Speed, taking war arc naruto, he's light speed confirmed, Ichigo has shown to be capible of ftl speeds.
Naruto can destroy a Country? Well ichigo In his fight with ulquiorra causally stoped and overpowered multiple attacks that can destroy Australia (also If you wanna use hell verse scaling this ver of him is planet level due to statements) and we're way past that part of the series. He's surpassed that strength more than 20 times over.
Stamina? Naruto was half dead after the war ark and fighting sasuke. The war was one day and he got power ups and healed a few times throughout it. Ichigo quite literally faught zangetsu for three days strait and then went on to immediately save rukia in the second ark of the series and when in the dongai with his dad he faught zangetsu for months.
Naruto has nothing in his Arsenal that can overcome ichigo, and ichigo can deal with all of Naruto's 4 attacks.
no one cares about naruto
Saying Ichigo's feat in Hellverse is planetary is an absolute downplay. Hell is stated to be a multiverse in a concept art and Ichigo was going to destroy it. The bigger downplay you can do with it is saying it was a galaxy-level feat.
@@dualgameplaybr
fax + ichigo destroyed 4 layers so low multiverse feat
@@dualgameplaybr when was it shown to be a multiverse?
Ichigo also has infinite speed.
Commenting for the algorithm 👌🏾
That's why calc staking is a bad way to measure speed, lightning speed was still relevant till the last arc and there are 0 statements about all the light attacks in bleach moving actually at the speed of light
Yes there are statements of bleach moving the speed of light I mentioned in the video. And lightning speed is not relevant you can find me a single character that was tagged or blitzed by a lightning speed attack.
Correct me if I'm wrong but before ichigo sliced through all of senbonzakuras petals, byakuya explains how there are "billions" of petals and that's plural so I always assumed ichigo sliced through 2 billion petals at the minimum. Not 100 million. But if the data book says otherwise then I don't know why byakuya would say 2 billion and be wrong considering it's his zanpakuto so he should know more than anyone.
Regardless, even if the 100 million is accurate, thats still impossibly fast to deal with the way Ichigo did.
Arguing over 100million vs billions is proof humans can't understand big numbers. 100million is ridiculously huge.
@@abbacuspotter9232 I agree 100 million is huge but its still crumbs compared to 2 billion. It's still crumbs compared to just one billion. The gap between 100 million to a billion is insanely big so that's why its important to get the facts right. Ichigo slicing 2 billion petals dwarfs 100 million but I get what you're saying.
Crafty Scales scales Ceros to infinite speed. Thoughts?
Crafty scales is the worst bleach wanker i've ever seen, he's the literal definition of a bleachtard
Pre SS Arc Ichigo reacted to Cero from a Menos. Bankai Ichigo who is 10x faster than his pre-SS arc version is compared to lightning speed. So, no. Ceros are NOT lightspeed.
Cero are light speed of the fact that thier literally called beams of light and guess what speed beams of light move at i promise you wont get the answer they move at light speed shocker I know and depending of the characters they can increase the speed at which they move at to mave them even faster by dumping in more Reriyouku 🤯🤯🤯
When is pre ss arc ichigo compared to lighting
Where can i see the calcs?
short answer they aren't god tiers god tag by sub sonic quincy arrows
If you wanna say ooh ceros have mass so it can be light speed, bruh goku has mass all characters have mass and yet we see them going light speed and faster
Please where do you get the number 100,000,000 petals from
didn’t uryu out run his shadow
Yes.
Please do a Ichigo speed calc
one argument for ceros not being lightspeed is that people can see them coming straight at them, meaning light (from the cero) reaches the person before the cero itself. If they were actually lightspeed or faster, the cero would hit the person at the same time they saw it, or the image would be after the cero as cherenkov radiation (kinda like a sonic boom for light).
The same goes for viewing them from the side, light reaches the viewer before the cero hits the target (If ceros were beams of light we would only be able to see them reflected of things like dirt and water particles, but they have force so they'd push such particles out the way).
I always saw ceros more like solid light or (varying in speed between supersonic and lightspeed) and the bleach world still having lightspeed as a hard limit. Moving at supersonic speeds is still impressive as hell, and it gets harder to do the faster you go. It kinda feels like AoT where they exaggerate scale for drama; it's entertaining
People who can move and react to light that would not be the case same with Madagascar light beam justice thing naruto dodged
Yet we get light speed in the first arc
Yeah no they definitely lightspeed at the minimum. Almost everyone and everything in Bleach is lightspeed from reactions to travel speed to attacks.
that is basically using irl logic which is dumb
@@VVooshbait he was lmao…… ichigo is faster than light easily. He even flew through the universe in a couple of hours. Base light can’t do that.
Please can you make a video on yamamoto and his ap dura speed hax etc?
star level with ftl to ftl+ in speed
They aren't true shikai ichigo was getting tagged by meninas and couldn't even see candice was holding 6 swords and not 2,plus her common attacks were stated to be much slower than lightning speed
Ichigo was not looking at meninas when she tagged him he was off guard. The second statement is false and he arrows where stated to be slower than lightning which are considered fodder in every instance there shown.
I have a problem with the Ichigo versus byakuya bankai it is stated in bleaches like only Data book that Ichigo is lightning speed 220 thousand m/s
thats a hyperbole
can be treated as simile, seeing that ichigo was indeed moving like lightning to byakuya
@@kevin-hv1se true but a lot of people use the statement as Ichigo is lightning speed at that moment I believe that during a single flash step he could get up to that speed but I don't think that that was the speed that he was constantly moving at
@Allen Grove my comment got removed not sure why, but there is scan of ishida moving so fast before his shadow disappears which proves he is light speed since he moved so fast before light get to touch the ground
Why did ichigo have such a hard time dealing with Gin’s bankai?
Because Gin was lying about literally EVERYTHING to do with his bankai.
@@weskintime4177 hmmmm that makes sense
@@AskinNukkLeVarr he says it…
@@weskintime4177 He lied to Aizen, not Ichigo
@@azaanhussain1724 Gin's character is consistently deceptive. It makes no sense for him to tell Ichigo the truth, especially since he didn't tell Ichigo what exactly his Bankai can do. Ichigo just assumed that it was the speed he had to worry about, and Gin threw a random arbitrary number as if Ichigo can comprehend how fast that is.
De donde sacan tanta mierda estos fanboys de Bleach.
Acaso se hacen una idea de lo que significaría moverse a la velocidad de la luz, si se movieran a la velocidad de la luz podrian dar la vuelta al planeta en un parpadeo.
Demuestrenme una hazaña del universo de Bleach que tan siquiera se acerque un poco a eso.
Ever heard of artistic liberty? Because it seems like you haven't. If that were shown, fights wouldn't be allat interesting. By your logic, 90% of all anime characters which have lightspeed feats don't as they don't traverse huge distances in an instant at basically any point in the story. Its practically common sense in scaling to not consider the fact that characters who are speculated to be ftl would travel absolutely enormous distances while fighting or moving. Being able to move at lightspeed doesn't necessarily mean that a character can move at that speed for even as long as a second.
Bro how TF is ichigo light speed in hueco mundo arc when he was struggling hard af against Gins zanpakuto which was only Mach 500 ???
Gin literally said that he lied about his bankai ability when he betrays Aizen lol.
@@Grognackwhen did he lie 😂😂 you making shit up !
@@heavenlyway108 He says he lied about his bankai ability in chapter 414 of the manga. And in the official French translation for "Bleach Character Book MASKED", it confirms that Gin and Toshiro fought at the speed of light in the Soul Society arc.
Eat crow. 🥱
@@Grognackhe lied about being even that fast as he is slower
@@powerscallingfiend That's not at all what that means. It's ability has nothing to do with speed. If you actually read the chapter, he says that his blade turns into dust _"for an instant"_ the moment it expands and contracts. And that there's a deadly poison that dissolves cells inside the blade.
So based off the way you explained this video harry potter characters are light speed
Negacion is light speed
Not ceros
Cero to lol
The problem is we cant generalize that.
Ulquiorras Cero for example is much faster then Grimmjows not to mention the speed of Ulquiorras Lanca Del Relanpago.
But we can calculate a little how fast Ceros are by using Sonido as example. Sonido pretty much means "Sound" in Spain so that movement makes you minimum as fast as Sound. Sonido and Flash Step are pretty much the saame but Sonido is supposed to be a little faster by nature. Ichigo when using Flash Step barely can dodge or Block incoming Sonidos and we know that Ichigo is one of the fastest Flash Step users at this point. However once Ulquiorra was in his first release he couldnt doge his Cero anymore let alone those Semi Relanpagos. He dodged one Lance but didnt even notice that a second one has been thrown. Ulquiorras Cero couldnt be evaded so he had to block it.
So Ceros get stronger and faster depending on the Spiritual Power of the user.
Now we get into Segunda Etapa and Vasto Lorde White.
Those two are in fact the first two characters shown in Bleach with Light Speed. Ichigo couldnt even react when Ulquiorra crapped his head from the side because he believed he was coming from the front. You could compare that with Gokus Instand Transmision where Ulquiorra just pops out and back in somewhere else thats how fast he was at that moment. Vasto Lorde White on the other hand was slightly faster then Ulquiorra and he could even evade Lanca Del Relanpago without even using Sonido or anything he just side stepped. So those two are already as fast as light without even using Movement Techniques.
So yeah its not really possible scaling the speed of techniques and attacks because it strongly depends on who uses it. We already have the same problem with who has the fastes Shunpo (flash Step). Soi Fong is supposed to be the fastes Captain but we all know that Shunsiu is much faster then her and Yamamoto even complimentet Shunsuis Shunpo Skills. Ukitake was equaly as fast as Shunsui. So there are at least two Captains faster then Soi Fong not including Ex Captain Yoruichi and Captain Commander Yamamoto himself. Or how Zaraki and Unohana managed to become "Kenpachi" when Yamamoto is around who clearly is the strongest in everything no matter how you look at it.
Scaling in Bleach is not possible. The Characters themself dont give a shit and do what ever the fuck they want so why bother ? Hell i wouldnt be surprised if Zaraki all of a sudden becomes Kido Grandmaster. x,D
Gotta disagree, it does depend on the user but we already have a baseline for Cero, Sonido, etc being the Speed of Light. You just need to take the weakest example of a character using, dodging, etc and take them as the baseline speed of light then scale off them. We have multipliers and we have character feats between and against one another, so it isn't impossible nor uniquely difficult to scale. You've just got to have an eye for detail and be ready to dive back to the earliest chapters to begin scaling like most other series.
Also the "fastest Captain", "hardest Hierro" etc probably refers to their base forms. Releases are generally pegged at 5x for Shikai and 10x for Bankai (stacks) but they're not necessarily balanced and it can be easy to see where some of that power went rather than a direct multiplier to everything (Sui Feng's Bazooka for instance).
Also you don't seem to actually know what a Kenpachi is? It isn't just the strongest nigga, hell where'd you get the idea Yamamoto was the strongest full-stop? Yamamoto was well out of his prime by the time Unohana and Zaraki were around not to mention Kenpachi isn't just the strongest. It's the stronger of Captains willing to dive into the criminal underbelly and do the Court Guard's dirty work.
@@bruhtonbruhkkinson6848
You didnt understand anything at all mate.If we take the pure base of anything we would land on some no name charcters that get killed right away without doing anything THATS how weak the "baseline" is. And again the baseline for Sonido IS NOT light but Sound. Sonido literally translates into "Sound" for a reason.
Now the base form argument.
Ulquiorra can block a full power masked Getsuga with his bare hands and when he does get hit he only has a scratch. Ulquiorras Hierro is much stronger then the other Espadas And the so called fastes Espada got beaten by Byakuya whi in fact is slower then Ichigo and Ulquiorra never was faced by Ichigos speed at all which means he is also faster then the so called fastes. The base forms dont tell us shit. Same goes for the Captains because Shunsui is faster then Soi Fong in his base Form.
Now Yamamoto.
The Question is do you know what Kenpachi means ? Its a Title given to the "strongest" in each generation. Now i quote Yamamoto:" In the past 1000 years no Shinigami stronger then me has been born." You notice something ? The reason why he is still head Captain in his old age is because there is no one stronger then him even now when he is old. That was flat out stated in the show mate. Also no Kenpachi is not a "Strongest Captain" title because Unohana already had that title when they still were a bunch of criminals and murderers long before Soul Society and there Yamamoto was still in his Prime.
Maybe get your knowledge of the show right before arguing with someone about it. Seems like my eye for detail was superior against your this time. ;)
i never even seen a cero bend 1 time in the show
as far as i remmember ceros always moved like natural light
there is a special kind of cero that bends time and space only accessible to espada.
Gran Rey Cero
@@liltrippy8599 fax
@@Ibidesgsindl yeah but it bends space
It doesnt get bened
@@adam-dn3hi that's what I said.
dont forgot the gin statment
wich if it is true(the data book seems to suggest its true but dosnt outright claim it is) than bleach top tiers move at 500 times the speed of light
what statement?