Tap Question I Need Your Help
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ธ.ค. 2021
- Forming tap from amazon: amzn.to/3qobGP9
Forming tap from McMaster Car: www.mcmaster.com/forming-taps/
Are Forming taps better for woodworking than standard cutting threads?
what tests should I do to determine which is better for woodworking
Cutting tap Vs Form tap
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As a machine operator I use the formed tap, or what we call a roll tap, for soft metals such as aluminum and the cutting tap for hard metals. Your right, the formed tap does make a cleaner thread and tends to last longer in softer materials. The traditional tap works best in much harder materials. For hand work the formed tap will require a little more effort to use simply because you are forming the thread instead of cutting it but the thread will be closer to the bolt size. If you can find more of the formed taps I think you will prefer them. I hope this helps.
Do you see less breakage using forming taps?
John I was actually going too say something similar in regards too material hardness. Basically testing out each tap (and idk if there are different types of threaders) on different hardness of woods and some composites.
Agree with you. Worked in a factory and threaded a lot in metal. Discovered abruptly that one was better than the other depending on the material and the thickness of the metal sheet and so on.
Don't forget drill taps.
I would echo previous remarks regarding the hardness of the material being a major factor.
@reedplanes728 Yes, but I only used a formed tap in aluminum. Steel or iron needs a tap that cuts a thread due to material hardness.
Form tap superiority in wood is obvious from this video. Good job
Could you just use the machine screw as a forming tap? As in, just add a slight taper to the front, and screw it in. Will be hard to start, but once it has a few turns of thread, it will pull itself in nicely.
You can also drill a tapered pilot hole and directly drive the machine screw in with a drill. I don't know if this works in harder woods.
I had the same thought.
It might work in a pinch, but a forming tap is shaped in such a way as to gradually compress the wood fibers into the desired shape, whereas forcing a bolt into a hole would likely just mash and break the fibers in a way that would lead to weak threads. However, I have used a Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut an axial groove in a bolt to turn it into a poor mans cutting tap.
@@ay8306 that's a fair point. I made one of those poor man's taps for my first wooden marking gauge. It worked only OK and I don't recommend it. Gee, maybe that's exactly why these taps were invented??🤔
The newer style of deck screws are made similar, instead of having a type17 drill tip they use form tapping.
Compare torque required to strip threads with a bolt as well as, force required to pull the bolt out. In different species of wood.
Yep
I see two macro parameters: 1) Performance of tap (i.e.; the ability of the tap to create the threaded hole) and 2) Performance of the threaded hole (i.e.; how well the threaded hole functions).
Item 1) can be broken down into several subsets depending on your specific situation. If you were running a production line you would be interested in things like the speed at which the holes are formed, the life span of the tap, the amount of setup time required, the cost of the tap, etc. For hobbyists or low volume production work, the parameters might include how easy it is to successfully form the tapped hole, the skill required, the risk of breaking off the tap in the hole, the costs of the tap, the effort required to use the tap. These are similar but with a different perspective. The factory needs the tap to make lots and lots of holes reliably and in a cost effective manner, whereas he hobbyist or low volume shop only needs to be able to make an 'occasional' tapped hole and can afford to spend more time per hole.
Item 2) can also be broken down in several subsets depending on your application. In most cases, I would suggest that the biggest concern is the holding power of the joint that is being held together with the threaded connection. Of course, this will be a function of the type of load applied to the joint, but I suspect that the most common load is simple tension which could be measured by pull out test (easy to do in a lab, but maybe not so simple to do on a bench though). Another major concern would be the life of the threads over repeated use (do the threads wear out). Another case might be the ability to precisely position the bolt (as in an adjuster screw). Another interesting test might be the ability of the 'strength' of the formed threads (the ability to resist being stripped out do to over-torqueing the bolt). How about the ability of the thread to keep the joint in proper tension (i.e.; resist loosening) or the ease of starting the bolt without cross-threading? The list can go on and on, but it all depends on what you require of the threaded hole you are forming.
In both cases, you also need to consider the type of wood you are tapping into and the type of tool you are using to drive the tap. You also need to consider the type of bolt you expect to use including material type, head style, washer and any retention device like a lock washer.
In the end, I would say that the most generally interesting aspect to a hobbyist or craftsman is the holding power of the joint, the ease of use and the cost (and availability) of the tool.
Sorry for the long post, but this question brought me back to my old days as an aerospace test engineer! :)
thank you James . i was a machinist on a sub-tender back in 72=76 . the tap you showed forming tap never used or seen . the other tap you showed is a bottoming tap not a starter tap use starter tap then the bottoming tap . okay i am an old geezer but there are lots of stuff i still do not know . so use a starter tap its tapered then fallow up with a bottoming tap
I think resistance to wear (repeated screwing and unscrewing under some load) is important. This could be augmented with CA glue. I would also consider spiral flute taps (flute not point) because they don't need to be backed out to clear the chips.
In metal tapping a critical component is the predrill as a percentage of final diameter. In general a form tap predrill size is bigger than a cut tap for the same thread percentage for example a 1/4-20 for about 65-75% thread is 0.207” (#7 drill) vs a form tap needs more room at .228” (#1 drill) for a similar thread percentage because it does squeeze material into the shape of the tap. The machinist handbook is a great resource for this. My biggest interest would be in learning the optimal predrills for various sizes in hardwoods without breaking taps(too small). This is a gigantic rabbit hole if you get into torque and various materials. Threaded inserts would be my recommendation if you have the stock width and plan to disassemble. Look forward to seeing what you decide to explore
And for blind holes, form taps are generally preferred because you don’t need to be concerned with chip evacuation which is why I try to use them in everything. Too many broken cut taps that clogged. They do require more torque to run properly
If you run a cutting tap into the piece without backing it out, the cutting edges get clogged with the chips and stop cutting.
When you use a forming tap, you generally need to use a larger pilot hole than you use for a cutting tap.
If you're going to test the cutting tap, then I suggest only doing it with a drill press. Cutting by hand allows the tap to drift away from the initial axis of cutting and therefore will cause looser fit as you have already seen.
Proper technique with a tap handle as opposed to using a brace (as shown in the video) makes a big difference. You can't get the in out motion I was taught when driving a tap with a drill press. I always shudder when I see someone use power tools to tap a hole, yes it can work (and when properly set up with a sharp tap, can be an excellent way to form threaded holes in a mass production setting), but you can also easily break your tap and leave yourself with a big mess to deal with.
@@ay8306 Actually, I was thinking of mounting the tap into the drill press chuck and then hand turning the chuck. Soft materials like pine could easily be stripped if the drill press motor is used.
Fantastic info on new products. As I use hardwood, softwood, and plywood, it would be good to include this in your testing. Maybe some dead weight capacity for them (how much will they support and for how long.
These would be good questions for the fireball tool channel. I've always used the cut threads when tapping. I've never used the other, but very curious now.
Are you also looking at doing the test with different types of woods as well as greenwood/kiln dried/garage dried?
I think you are on to something. I have used old cutting type bottom taps after dulling (ramping) the cutting edge to thread wood. I reinforce the holes with either shellac or aliphatic resin depending on the application. I have done this for years with decent results. It helps to have a nylon threaded rod to run into the hole while the glue is hardening. The glue won't stick to the nylon. I tried it with lubricated brass, but sometimes removing the rod was very difficult, and some threads were damaged. I never tried using phosphor bronze or oil impregnated sintered bronze, but I suspect they might work too.
Test parameters? Install - remove cycles before damage. Tensile pull out resistance. Clamping force at the face. Time to thread. Splitting force on board edges.
Form taps definitely make better threads than cutting taps. I'm not sure I could I do a form tap in steel by hand, but they do work in brass and aluminum.
If you are breaking out the top few threads (making your screws wiggle) you need a tap guide block. It will get you started square without all of the wiggle. You can make your own pretty easily.
It's safe to assume you're going to test a variety of wood species and also end grains. I think you should also test common man-made materials like plywood, MDF, OSB, acrylic etc. since they don't necessarily have a grain and can have inconsistent densities throughout the piece. It might also make sense to compare the strength against a threaded insert to see if using a tap is even worth your time in some instances.
Live center.
Hey James, I usually pre-drill with a smaller wood drill Bit and follow up with a cutting tap, so there is less waste to get out… the forming tap sounds intriguing. Would love to see different sizes drilled in also harder wood to see at which sizes hardwood starts to crack! Enjoy the testing 😉
Some things to take into account with a thread size or design: 1. If the bolt and base metal are the same, the IDEAL breaking tensile strength of the screw of bolt shaft should be the Length of Thread = Diameter of the Screw Shaft. Not actually real world, so most designs call for a minimum screw and thread length of Diameter + some extra length depending on the expected strength of the materials. 2. Obviously, thread hold strength will vary with the type of thread design. 3. The best design for the Compression Tap should compress the invaded material (wood, of course) without causing the fine grain to shred. So, fr'instance, balsa will shred with even the best of care in the tapping process. Hardwoods will usually deform/crush without shredding and you get the polished pattern at time 3:15. 4. I'll presume that coarse Compression Tap TPI will spread the crush of the invaded material / thread area. YMMV, mostly depending on the condition of the invaded or base material.
I normally just use hard bolts to make taps for wood. But you touch on something that I might try in future, I wil try to make a forming tap rather than the usual cutting action
Thanks for taking on this challenge! I think we will see some interesting results.
Would be interesting to also see what happens if the tapped thread is left with no bolt in it for a month or so. To see if there is any rebound.
That's an interesting cross section view. It brings questions that might be worth answering. Here are a few that come to mind.
Longevity in high strain areas vs wood threads. Anything can be tight once, but after furniture rearranging, moving, & daily living, does it remain tight?
Providing it can remain viable long term, what benefit over wood threaded screws & unthreaded pilot holes?
Machine vs wood thread depth, shallow & close together doesn't sound like a benefit... is it actually?
What kind of wood - harder vs. softer (as indicated by another commenter)?
What grain orientation - do you penetrate parallel to the grain or perpendicular to the grain?
What effect does thread size have?
What about coarse thread vs. fine thread?
What effect does clearance hole size have?
We need a collaboration between you and Abom79 with his flexarm tapper!
That is interesting!!!! I think everyone has it covered in the testing department!!! I really like the idea of the forming tap!!! Thank you James!!!!
A test to see how many small wiggles it takes to get a loose joint would be nice. With a large enough lever anything can be broken loose, but most things are held together with smaller pieces. But they do get a repetitive force applied to them. Chairs, benches, beds, etc.
Havent seen them over here yet but, I'd love to know how it works on different woods.
Ex a softer wood, a harder wood and a difficult wood that likes splitting or chipping. 😊
I suggest also using a standard bolt to form the threads to see if it produces a different result than the roll tap. I suspect using wood there will be little to any difference from the roll tap as neither of them have flutes and both are compressing the threads. Although smaller diameters bolts may be prone to shearing while forming threads in some woods.
I think you are on to someting and headed in the right direction. Idealy, testing the force reqired in different woods to pull directly out the taped/treaded screw of the different viriaty with and without supper glue.. Knowing how easy it is to mess up taping with the different kind or how easy it is to split the wood or if some woods just don't do as good with a kind of tap. This could be a big project. I look forward to it. But I would not blame you for running away from another big spreadsheet project. as always I enjoy your work.
Normal taps are intended for metal and they create threads that are bit loose intentionally as that is required for metals. The Wood Whisperer taps create a bit tighter threads that should be snug. I've been using them myself and I have been happy with them
Need to look at: How clean is the thread? How clean is the thread using method A - method B, (say free hand verses tap assisted alignment (drill press method)? How clean is thread at top, middle, bottom, (2" deep hole - 1/4", 7/8", 1 3/4")? All this repeated 5 - 10 times for each sample, (using a cut apart method. (3:14). I think the better formed/clean thread will prove to be soupier in all aspects. Now is the tapped hole a one time use, or multiple use? What material is being inserted in the tapped hole, (steal, brass, wood, plastic, etc.)? This one is a head scratcher!!
Sounds like a great project for winter. I would think smaller bolt diameters would be good for jigs and situations where the bolt is repeatedly screwed in/out. Also how does the forming tap hold up over time without a bolt to keep its shape? Does it swell with moisture? Look forward to your typical over the top spreadsheets.
Cool idea! As a first experiment, you should tap and measure maybe 15 holes while keeping everything as fixed as possible. The standard deviation of these is an estimate of the amount of noise in the data. Then, get someone with a statistical software package to help design your main experiment - it will cut down the number of samples tremendously!
Much of the following is obvious or mentioned by others, but an ideal set of parameters might include: Species of wood; Screw sizes; Ages; Grain directions; Number of replicates; Tapping fluids; Tap hole sizes; and Adhesives. It will likely be way too large an experiment without a statistical design. Items to fix as much as practical (and measure when applicable): Tap fixture, hardened screw used for testing, grain thickness, torque on the screw when inserted, board thickness, wood moisture, and temperature. Measurands: Straight pull-out peak force, whether creating the threads caused cracking, and whether pulling out caused cracking.
Personally, I'm most interested in smallish sizes (#6, #8, M3), as a cutting tap is fairly easy to use in 1/4" and larger and is plenty strong. A forming tap seems like a great thing when one needs a small, clean threaded hole, or when there's no room for an insert. Not as interested in plywood, fiberboard, melamine, OSB, etc.
Hope it's helpful!
Best test is driving torque required to strip the threads. Also, a test to compare thread degradation from repeated use would be cool. Can't wait!!!
Like the looks of the Forming Tap. Also like the idea of it being a snugger fit so you can do like you do and just thread bolts directly into the wood without needing to install thread inserts - think the wood maybe decompressing and tightening around the bolt would be a very good thing in that instance.
First about a standard cutting tap. Normally it has three flukes. There is also a two fluke or gun tap. This allows more space for waist removial. It it the tap of choice for aluminum. Perhaps you should add it to your testing.
Back to your basic question. First I would use something as a refernce. You can simply screw steel bolts into a hole allowing the bolt cut its own threads. This would be a good referance to compare against.
Next you need to test (a pull test should be just fine) with holes in soft wood (pine), medium hard wood (soft maple) and a really hard wood (hard maple). It would also be interesting to test for holes in end grain.
A major reason to put a bolt into wood is so you can remove it later and disassemble whatever. So I would run a second set of pull test done after the bolt has been screwed in and out say a dozen times.
Good Luck. I look forward to seeing your results.
I think, the formed hole would have a much better hold over time, the compressed fibres would probably expand back a bit creating a super strong hold.
As for test parameters, I think a couple of hard woods vs soft woods (torque test), dried vs fresh cut, end grain (splitting), exposed to weather, screw size, how much weight does it take to destroy the thread/rip it out, an over time test, a superglue test, hole size for tap (do you need a larger/smaller drill size for the different taps).
I would like to see the tapping results on different materials such as soft woods, hard woods, plywood and MDF.
Thank you for sharing this video
I use an Infinity Wood Tap... I hated paying $30 for one bit, but when used properly it makes perfect threads everytime. There's cheaper and easier methods, but if you're making threads in wood instead of just slapping it together with wood screws, then you've already bypassed easy street, so you might as well go all the way.
Tolerance of the pilot holes. Specifically if you use the needs l nearest fractional drill instead of the letter or metric from the tap chart says you should use, does that affect the results.
So I guess that means doing all the tests twice. But letter drills are hard to come by and if you have the tap on hand for whatever reason but not the letter drill
I would like to see testing of what happens with vibration resistance in various woods.
I have used just driving the bolt into a hole technique and after a few years the vibration or wood shrinkage let it fall out.
Hello James
One test that would tell you a lot about holding power is to see how many Ft/Lbs it takes to strip the thread out.
In regards with metal in a production environment - forming taps have a great a significant advantage because the can tap a hole much faster than a traditional cutting tap and are better suited to be used in a machine driven application. This is partly due to the fact that a forming tap uses a larger pilot hole but also, as you stated, does not require you to break the chip by needing to reverse the direction.
We used special taps in machines, but that was in the 70's, they had like a sort of drill point and two flutes. We had machine that could tape like six holes at the same time in one piece. Think it was called tapmatic.
I would like to see how a properly installed wood screw of the same size would compare to the screws inserted into the cut and formed threads.
Interesting topic to explore. If you do a test, you might want to first set yourself specific parameters to test initially or you could be at it for months lol. There are so many variables such as all the common and different wood species, the types of bolts that can be used, depth of the hole for holding power, etc. I know all this gets your mind leaping all over the place lol Have fun and we will be waiting for the results!
Here in the UK there are bolts that form threads. These look like forming taps on the ends. They are supplied in some hardware stores over here. They are mainly metric but in the past I've seen them in inch sizes also.
The taps for machine threads are made for metal: forming taps are for softer materials and since most wood is softer than metals, they should work better overall.
As for what to look for, I'd want to know about ease or difficulty with the tapping operation itself: how sensitive is the finished hole to the absolute perfect drill size. I'd expect the formed threads to require better hole diameter control. Also super hard versus super soft woods: I'd expect that in very hard woods you might prefer the cutting tap.
As for more common wood thread taps, I've never seen those done with forming. A 1x8pitch thread would not form well but cuts like a charm. So I'd want to see you try larger sizes and see where the break point is. I'd expect it to be around a 1/2" or so.
Interesting topic. Looking forward to what you find out.
personally speaking, i gave up long ago on using anything but forming taps for anything other than strong metals like steel or titanium. for wood, aluminum and plastic i always use a forming tap.
What do you make with Titanium?
Super interesting topic! Looking much forward to following this 😊 I would love it if you included a spiral flute tap (aka gun tap) and see how it compares to a more traditional cutting tap.
Some test parameters where I'm interested in seeing performance comparisons:
* shallow vs deep vs through holes
* soft vs hard wood
* ring-porous vs diffuse porous woods
* end grain vs edge grain
Suggestions for performance indicators:
* Force required to break threads by puling bolt out
* Force required to break threads by tightening bolt too hard
* How tight the initial fit is
* How well threads hold up after repeated use (both strength and fit)
* How much changes in humidity and temperature affects performance (both ways - threads cut in cold and dry seasons performance during warm and humid seasons, and vice versa)
3 types of hardwood vs 3 types of softwood, end grain vs cross grain, and both tap & clear and straight drive with the cutting tap, maybe 3 sizes of tap, #10, 1/4" & 1/2"... Maybe also fine thread vs course...
I have tapped wood enough times that I consider it before other methods. The only problem I've had is holding in endgrain and I have concerns about splitting with a forming tap.
I would like to know what the maximum torque achieved prior to stripping out the threads. That will give an indication of the overall strength of the threads. Need to control engagement length, maybe by using a board of uniform thickness and tapping all the way through.
test them in end grain as well as side grain. test them being screwed in tight then unscrewed a set number of times to test for degredation.
Things to measure:
1) pressure the bolt snaps out when pulling out (or pushing in)
2) number of well-former threads in the first third from the top of the hole (assuming the bolt has to withstand lateral movement, the top will be really important to be tight)
3) number of well-formed threads per inch
There are various techniques that I've seen that involve compressing wood fibers for something and then causing them to expand again by applying water. It makes me wonder if you could get a screw more or less "permanently" installed into the wood by wicking some water into the threads and letting them swell. If the forming tap is compressing them how would that affect the hold in the wood, or even just the ability to back the screw out again? How would this compare vs applying some kind of adhesive such as CA glue, wood glue, or epoxy? I'd imagine there is less cleanup if nothing else and it seems like the critical weakness in getting screws straight into wood is that over time they might back themselves out and need to be tightened again depending on the forces involved.
I liked the way the formed tap looked when cut open BUT how about for a wood on wood like for a leg vice? Something large like 1 1/2" maybe? Thinking this may not work as could freeze up and become hard to turn over time as weather changes.
I would also want to test a forming tap against just driving the bolt in without tapping. since the forming tap is basically just a sharp and hardened bolt
No it's not, form taps are not round they are polygonal to allow for a lubricant and less friction, some form taps also have flutes to allow more lubricant, mostly on bigger thread sizes.
As an automotive mechanic, I have a set of traditional taps and dies, and I have what they call a re-threading set. These look a lot like regular taps but they are not sharp, they are designed for repairing damaged threads, they don't actually cut, but straighten and re-form the threads. They were very reasonably priced.
it sounds like swaging, where the threads are forced into position, and while that happens they become work hardened, I bet they're a lot stronger than normal cut threads actually, probably by a wide margin just due to the fact that the threads when formed become compressed, they also get much harder and denser than a cut thread can make them.
Hey, one test I thought of that would be great info to have, is how many foot pounds of torque does it take to strip the threads, using a torque wrench
I say go for it this could be very helpful
One thing that to keep in mind is how the how will be used. If it is a hole where the bolt will be adjusted or removed often then a looser fit might be preferable.
Another thing to try would be a spiral tap. In theory this should also give you a cleaner hole than the straight cutting tap because you can just go in once.
I would say that if we are looking at using a metal screw/bolt to secure something in/to wood, we likely are more concerned with pullout rather than shear. (Assuming we aren’t talking about structural framing.) If you have a way to measure the pullout force, that seems the most important metric. If you don’t have a way to pull on the screw, measuring torque to strip the threads would probably be a comparable test since in both cases, you are trying to find failure point of threads.
Maybe try different depths of hole to find an optimum depth for various species?
Where it is advisable or likely to remove or change out a screw in a wood joint more than a couple of times, I want to use insert nuts into the wood so machine screws will contact the metal inserts instead of wearing out the wood threads.
It would also be enlightening to see how a DIY solution would compare, something like using lags as a tap.
I'm interested in all the parameters you mentioned, as well as how long the tap actually last when cutting a bunch of holes, does one dull and become unusable faster than the other
Interesting. Might be good to test pull out strength in thin stock (1/8 thick, 1/4 etc.) I can't come up with a need for tapping wood yet...
looking at the difference in thread cleanliness between formed and cutting i would go for formed. i must admit any time i need a threaded hole, i generally always use the bolt i am inserting as a tap. just a couple of quick touches to the end with a angle grinder and then drive it in and out to form the threads for the final bolt. cut open it leaves a hole like your formed thread. as i only have a small selection of taps i find this easier than going out and buying the sizes i need.
These initial tests seem to have provided, or at least suggest, very favorable results for the Form Tap. I think future tests should be designed to explore holding power by exertion of various forces applied to work samples of different species of wood. Ideally several sample structures of various configurations, and different load dynamics.
The formed threads sure look nicer. I never considered tapping wood holes, but tap metal holes often. Should be interesting testing.
I’m about a year later on this one, but I would be super interested in seeing what the threads look like when you initially create them with the forming tap and then run either a thread chaser or a cutting tap through the hole. I’m wondering if it would give you the best of both worlds or if the chaser would just continue to create those ragged, sketchy-looking threads.
I am most interested in the holding force. How much torque or stright pull can be applied before the threads fail.
Interesting; I hadn't heard of these forming taps before. I would think the main parameter to test would be pull-out strength, and it looks like the forming taps would be an easy winner.
BUT! The idea of "forming" threads in wood by compression rather than cutting isn't new to me. On the rare occasions when I want to use a machine screw or bolt in wood, I've often just forced the screw into a hole in the wood without pre-threading the hole. Whether or not this works depends on the size of the fastener, the size of the drilled hole and the hardness of the wood. But my thinking when doing this has always been that compressing the threads into the wood will be stronger than cutting them. So whether or not a forming tap is even a necessary tool might be something else for you to test.
Different types of wood, wobbly-ness (i always have that problem ) and strengt over time would be good. I felt a spreadsheet coming after about a minute
I would be very interested to see the differnces. A couple of things immediately spring to mind. Does one work better for metal bolts Vs wooden ones. The possible variations across wood density/hardness. Differences across hole diameter and/or thread size/count.
I really like your in-depth comparisons
I have had some success with drilling a hole a diameter of two smaller than the a bolt and then driving the bolt with a cordless drill and finishing with a socket wrench. For something you may disassemble once or twice really efficient. You may wish to test this as well.
I think what my biggest question would be is which one can stand up to repeated bolt installation and removal over time, and also which one requires less retightening over time.
Definitely looking forward to this. I would be curious about longevity for repeated use of the same hole, if tapping hardwood really is suitable for something like knockdown construction. As for the Wood Whisperer (now Eagle America) taps, Andy Klein might be willing to help out, since he designed them.
Andy Klein made some wood taps several years ago. He did a lot of the research too. Have you reached out to him?
@@BeauDobbs Andy designed the Wood Whisperer taps.
James, I bought a kit from China that are drill bits with tap in one. You know? But it's metric... And I love it. I use to drill a little smaller hole with a common bit and then use those for finishing the hole and making the threads.
I never tried them in metal, but on wood you don't need to put it in and out all the time, it's just one time and done. And the hole ends up exactly like the compression bit you showed in this video.
Oh, and BTW... I use it with electric drills. Not by hand.
Happy new year! And stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Is it made for wood?
@@RichardBuckman They say wood and metals... But I wouldn't trust too much. You know?
I would be interested to see if they strip at a different torque? Would you be able to see a dead weight test to see how much they would hold? Also could you test a threaded insert with the same parameters? This sounds interesting.
Thanks! I’ve never heard of formed taps and when I did an internet search was a bit overwhelmed with all the different types, yikes!
Really cool, I would be interested in how they preform in different types of wood and how undersized the holes are. Could one just use a bolt instead of a proper tap. I also tend to only thread my cutting taps in and out once.
First thoughts:
How they compare for stripping the threads with over tightening,
is one easier to cross thread,
Is there a difference in overall performance threading with the grain vs. cross grain?
Does oiling the tap help or hinder?
The two most important to me would be strength of hold (what it takes to rip it out) and duration of effectiveness (works for a years or wears out in a couple of months.
You are making threads to make a mechanical connection. Test the connections shear and tensile, in different woods and over time.
Idk much about taps or metal tapping but am really interested in tapping wood and making small wooden screws!?!?!? I've seen most all your videos n tell others about you making them screw threads by hand! Good luck
I'm interested, I would definitely like to see a few types of taps, different number of flutes, straight vs spiral, that sort of thing. And techniques for tapping wood may be a factor to look at, just send it with a drill or carefully use a tap wrench like with steel.
I think a drill press type situation would be the best drilling/taping the holes to get them straight and inline for a testing scenario
My wonder is what is the viability of use in harder woods for the forming tap vs the cutting tap
I would think the density of the work could impact which is best. Just guessing but I would guess that a forming tap is better in soft woods such as pine and a cutting tap would be better in dense woods such as jabota.
From my own use, the Wood Whisperer taps (as named when I purchased, now under a different name) leave a cleaner and better fitting hole in wood than metal taps. In face grain I'm very pleased with the results, but I'm curious how the formed bit would compare in end grain, which I find much more difficult to thread with a cutting tap.
Keep them on your bedside table, so Taps at Reveille is not depressing...
Rolled threads in both wood and metal deform the grain structure and this gives greater strength than cutting it, in both internal and external threads. I’ve had quite good results tapering the start threads on a toughened bolt and using it to tap wood, if I didn’t have the right size tap.
I don't usually back cutting taps out when threading wood and haven't had any problem. Plus the threads aren't nearly as loose as shown in the video. Could be I get away with it in part because I'm usually threading mesquite which is very brittle and just turns to dust rather than shavings when tapping.
The type of wood, and end compared to long grain may make a difference, also thread types, Acme could be good in wood, BSW seems to hold better than metric, very many variables, enjoy!
Interesting would be if they are different in long and endgrain. If you cut the fibers with a regular threadcutter in endgrain you end up with a lot of crumble and a bad result.
I was wondering how strong they are . Such as how much pressure it takes to pull a bolt straight out of the tapped hole.
I’m going to be attaching plywood to form a box for a friend. He wants it to be airtight 🤦🏼♀️ point is he’s insisting I do more than just drill bit and screw. I don’t like threaded locks from what I’ve seen. This form thread seems promising. After using one… do I just use a screw like I normally would? What screw do I use? Is the form thread taking the place of what a drill bit hole would do?
You would use a normal bolt that would fit the threads. But I don't know if I would do that and plywood. It would split apart too easily this is something you'd want to do in solid wood.
Well I don't even know what to think, that just tapped my brain, screwed my head up real good...why I can't even thread this here NEEDLE!
Hehe
One possible test - is there a difference in the result depending on the direction of the hole relative to the grain? Is the thread created across the grain different from threads created along the grain. Also, is there a difference radial to the growth rings compared with tangent to the rings?