Disgust. The gateway emotion for healing toxic shame
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ต.ค. 2019
- To read a synopsis of this video, along with an important note from me on how my in-person Up & Down workshops help work with the depths of toxic shame via a somatic level head to this specific blog post: irenelyon.com/2019/10/25/disg...
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Resources I mention during this video:
► How toxic shame creates the fallout we call depression
irenelyon.com/2017/09/14/toxi...
► Why healthy shame is good for us and toxic shame isn't.
• Why healthy shame is g...
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Thank you for being here!
1. Leave a comment and let me know how this video impacted you. Feel free to leave a question (my team answers them each week!)
2. To get more nervous system health resources, plus learn more about me and my credentials, plus the many ways you can work with me at the practical level, head to my website: irenelyon.com
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4. GOT QUESTIONS? Send an email to: support@irenelyon.com
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Please know that…
The statements on this TH-cam channel or in videos are simply opinion. Content presented or posted on this channel is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment or a professional therapeutic relationship. Content presented or posted is intended to provide general health information for educational purposes only and you should contact the appropriate healthcare professional before relying on any such information.
My website is a wealth of free resources and information on how to start this work, so here it is one more time: irenelyon.com
A few days ago I had a huge release of toxic shame. I had been blaming and shaming myself for decades over something my parents did to me. I was pregnant at the time and my little girl died at 7 days old. The doctor told me it was due to the stress. I had carried so much guilt and shame over it. It came to the surface a few days ago and I cried so hard. I went to sleep and I guess my brain was working on the trauma while I slept. When I woke up my mind told me that at the time I didn't know about narcissistic abuse, I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had and the blame and shame belonged to the abusers. I sat with my thoughts and asked the spirit of my daughter to please forgive me, I was so sorry that she and I had to have this experience, I thanked her for the time she spent with me and that I loved her very much. I feel so much lighter, still sad, for the loss of a child is deep sorrow, but the shame that it was all my fault lifted.
Wow! Thank you so much for sharing your experience here Julie.
It's so great to hear that you have had a shift in this guilt and shame you've been carrying around.
That sadness that is there is understandable. I hope being able to be in the sadness without the shame leads to new insights and shifts.
Wishing you ease and more lightness in your journey.
Nicole - Team Lyon
@@teamlyon3109 Thank you so much Nicole. I hope my sharing helps others.
Gypsy Julie ❤️
I am so very sorry. Sending love.
So happy that the shame lifted
"I am not safe if I challenge this ridicule" that hit home!
In my experience it is worse than a dead rat. More like the rotting corpse of a stranger you killed that was simultaneously yourself.
What a great analogy Martin. I can sense my disgust in response to that image ;)
Nicole - Team Lyon
Yes! 😂
Haha agreed
Bingo!
Exactly wow
My whole childhood I was told that I was 'Rotten to the core' and that I was 'The devils child'. For years I believed I was 'the actual' devils child. At 56 it still haunts me.
Yup. It'll "stick with you" until your system learns that something else is actually true.
Glad you're here watching this video. Hopefully it's given you some insight!
Nicole - Team Lyon
@@teamlyon3109 Yes, it does, thank you.
:(
I am sorry. I hate parental narcissists. They do not deserve to breath on this Earth. You are free now as am I. I am sorry that you were surrounded by demonic forces.
I visualized the abusers as cockroaches defiling everything, including me, so that they can feast! Know what's disgusting. It's them. (or the roachlike behavior of child abusers if you feel uncomfortable pinpointing others) Its that, Not you.
Lightbulb moment! I've had so much shame about my family - and I took that on and became ashamed of myself because I was a part of that family. Now I'm trying to convince my inner child that she's an extraordinary hero for choosing differently than her family. Because she did.
That's great Roots! Yes, you ARE your own hero :) - Seth from Team Lyon.
I was so excited to find this! I've been saying it for years: disgust is a sign of healing! It was definitely my way out of toxic shame. I see it as purging out the poison that was force fed to us. Until we are willing and able to feel disgusted, the poison remains trapped as if the body never registered it's harmfulness, but there it is, killing us from the inside..
So great to hear an expert talk about it. Thank you. :)
This is a great comment just wanna say that
@@FlowerUruguay mostly a pulling or pushing away of the body, with the upper lip curling up and face turning sideways or backing up the upper part of the body, when it was about an abusive behaviour or act.
It would manifest as nausea or an urge to vomit for me, when it was about something physical like foul smells or tasting a disgusting texture, that'd bring up memories or associations of abuse.
@@FlowerUruguay no, it's very embodied - like if you pull away from an attempted hug or something.
This... makes so much sense. For the first time ever I actually felt the sensations of being disgusted. Lots of people would say “I want to puke” and I thought that was just a saying for the longest time until talking with my father for the last time truly made me want to vomit because I was so disgusted by the way he spoke to me. I have since really truly struggled since experiencing that and couldn’t quite put my finger on why.
Hi Kittie Marie, good to hear that Irene's video was able to help you make sense of your experience. Here's another of hers on this topic in case you want to learn more. - Jen from Team Lyon
th-cam.com/video/iev1Q0zXzNo/w-d-xo.html
I get this. Today, I felt disgusted by everything done to me without my permission. I did not know.
And, i was not able to protect myself or speak up, instead protecting everyone else. It's disgusting. Thank you.
Disgust is an interesting and important one!
Glad to hear that you get it.
Here's to getting and moving through more of our emotions!
Nicole - Team Lyon
I'm curious to know how does indoctrination work? I mean even in school everything is considered good indoctrination but is it? Anytime someone put something bad in your head and told you to believe is that abuse?
So true. I've recently been working on a life time of toxic shame and the closer im getting to it the more I feel like vomiting. Sometimes in deep meditation I've also experienced a very foul burnt taste at the back of my throat.
Thanks for sharing Authentic Self Growth, Seth here from Team Lyon. You may already be doing this, but if not - sometimes when we get that vomiting or gagging feeling it can be very helpful to give that expression - not actually vomiting, but opening the mouth and sticking the tongue out as one would if they were vomiting along with a good exhale, or with the sound 'aaaaaa', as in 'cat'. Giving some expression to those feelings can sometimes help them move through and find resolution.
@@teamlyon3109 Thanks Seth. I have actually been retching but not actually vomiting. Good to hear that's a good way to give this shame an expression. I was thinking I had to vomit to release something. But I'll keep doing what you suggested. Thank you 🙏🏽
It tastes like a bitterness or old unshared repressed emotions.
Really?
It makes me feel disgust that this is really what I experienced as a child and how much I repressed to survive. I was definitely toxically shamed.
This is some heavy Shadow Work...
Thanks so much for this.
Disgust, repulsion, and calling people out in their B.S. also helps a lot.
Oh wow, now I get it. I’ve been purging emotions the last few weeks & finally getting to the shame. When the emotions are coming out I start to feel like I want to vomit but only air comes out but it’s really powerful.. my body is jolted at the same time. It’s vomiting disgust. OMG now I understand. And why I’ve had chronic fatigue & autoimmune issues for years!! This is a good sign! Thank you Irene!!! 🙏🙏❤️
My father's constant ridicule has been considered acceptable in my family, "it's just his kind of humour".
Hi Andrea C, Jen here from Team Lyon. Sorry to hear this - I hope your finding Irene's work supportive. Engaging in this work often helps us to shift our relationship to our family dynamics over time.
Personally, my old man does this as well. The irony is, I see him as weak, and as a joke that I don't take seriously.
It's not funny when it makes the kid cry and then they get ridiculed onto of it for "not being able to take a joke" so not only are they hurt but there defective for not being able to swallow the hurt......shamed for .having normal healthy emotions and reactions to being mocked by your family that is supposed to care and protect you not hurt you. Toxic AF.
Yes I learnt that it was my father inadequateness. And toxic shame can be like a hot potato, pass it on, it’s too painful
My dad is a sick in the head cruel man pretending is so 'nice to the outside world and they believe him. Now I'm estranged from my whole family he's having a field day shaming me to everybody he meets.
--This video is a gateway for healing my toxic shame. Thank you so much for providing this information. Your words are incredibly encouraging.
This is a great overview. Also, the abuse can be subtle. I used to think the abuse had to be overt and obvious so I kept justifying that I wasn’t abused, but that’s not the case at all.
Good vid. The book "30 Days to Overcome Shame" by Harper Daniels, was also a big help.
Thank you so much for posting this. I have never been overwhelmed with feelings of disgust before but it began in meditation and then came up spontaneously a few days later. It threw me for a loop. I have had spontaneous episodes of extreme grief, rage and fear before but disgust was new. This information helps so much to process it. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this vital info! I've never heard it explained like you did so well! I've been working on self-healing and been noticing a heavy feeling sitting in my belly which does not go away, like a sleeping monster in my underground cave. I had sensed it might be shame and a few times I also visited it to ask what it wants. Just recently I've had two experiences where I had ordered a heavy meal of junk food. While eating I had a strange wretching sensation and heavy tears rolling down. It was a feeling of disgust at a deep visceral level. I think I may have tasted the disgusting dead rat.
you speak beautifully, and all of this resonates with me so strongly.
i especially connected with my own experience when you talked about the need to build a capacity to sense our embodied physiology.
i had a consistent weekly yoga practice probably about 2-3 years ago. it wasn't even anything special, literally just an hour of hot yoga every week. by the end of maybe 6 months of this, i distinctly remember a fairly short period where i felt amazing! i felt exactly those connections to my bodily signals that i now recognize have been disconnected again. that period didn't last long enough to where i was able to do any sort of trauma healing (i don't think that was even on my radar at that time) but hearing you speak about this and remembering that feeling really gives me hope. reconnecting with the body is a very important thing, and i'm sure that's the next step for me.
thank you so much for your work!
You are welcome brick mork! Jen here from Irene's Team. It's uplifting to read how 1 hour a week of practice made such a difference for you. I'll link to one of Irene's free resources, a 15 minute neurosensory practice in case you want to check it out.
th-cam.com/video/RoPOmAb108w/w-d-xo.html
Thank you so much for this video, I've been experiencing many episodes of releasing toxic shame from my body (crying ,screaming, shaking, etc.) and when this deep feeling of self-disgust started coming out it was disturbing and scary, but with your video and experience with Peter Levine's somatic healing, I am so relieved that it is actually progress toward healing shame!! Thank you so much!
I would challenge this idea of “healthy shame”. I recently listened to Brene Brown’s Power of Vulnerability and she discusses the value of guilt as a tool to move us or bring awareness, but that shame is only harmful or damaging because it attacks the essence of who we are.
I agree, only guilt can be healthy
I agree I don't think shame is healthy. Glad someone said it.
Did you watch Irene's video? She may have a different and useful way of looking at it. All these words like shame are evolving now, as we get deeper into the stuff that previous generations could not/ would not talk about.
Thank you Irene, I dry heave a lot when I do somatic work, wasn’t too sure why but I have experienced times where I would be going about my day and I would feel this icky disgusting feeling and honestly every time I feel that I think of my grandmother. Have no idea why but I sense she carries that too. This stuff runs deep. Thank you so much for your work xx
I didn't know there was such an emotion as healthy shame, and now I can see that I have said things that I was not aware of. I think it's guilt, and guilt is important but only as a brief emotion like realizing that jumping off a swing injured your knee. You didn't want to injure your knee but you were careless. Hurting other people isn't wise, but sometimes is warranted, and very human. Wanting our needs to be met involves acknowledging that we are unhealthy at times and are willing to change for US first and then others. If we simply change until others approve of us we will never authentically and deeply change who we are, but just acclimate to the tribe we are around which can itself be a toxic maladaptive coping mechanism, creating bonds you are disinterested in keeping. I grew up in a pretty hostile environment and could not keep friends. I felt like I had lost my self respect at an early age and have gained it back slowly over time. I carried so much shame about being gay, transgender, and having ptsd. I felt like an alien, when I realized I had forgotten about the community of people just like me who are seen as "other" even though they are normal. The family I was born into on my birth mom's side was very unhealthy and honestly I have a feeling of loss of compassion for them, and also sadness. They will never know the love I know for themselves and that's just so sad. I wish it for them, even though I know they hurt me. I wished it for my mother but now I only wish love for myself, peace for myself, freedom from fear and loneliness. The loneliness from PTSD was so awful that I had trouble working, speaking and going to school. Now I feel like a strong confident person that anyone can talk to. Just today my friends confided in me, calling me one after the other. I felt so honored and remembered those days I isolated. I have grown, I have healed, I have made more, healthier connections. I can do this. Anyone can. I promised myself as a child. Now I promise it to myself still.
THIS HAS BEEN A HELP- THANKS!! I generally don't feel disgusted. I feel sympathy/empathy for others. Interesting, because toxic shame was heaped on me, and I didn't get rid of the abusers until I forced myself to visualize them as cockroaches defiling everything so that they can feast. So, finally, I was disgusted/aka felt a way to identify and move beyond the toxic shame. Now, I really feel I can separate wrong from right, and find myself in the right.
This is so amazing to hear!!!! So excited for you :)
Nicole - Team Lyon
@@groundedandinspired Really happy to know this! Good!! Thank you for telling me.
Wow I just consciously identified disgust today twice (once about the past/being shamed and right after in a real-life now situation that felt gross) and it was amazing and so enlightening and I was ready for it thanks to this vid. Thanks Irene--you are a real gem.
I felt this way all my life. I’m healing now.
Me too xx
This has been so helpful really important video for people with cptsd
Thank you for the video, however why is emotional neglect not mentioned as a cause of toxic shame? To a child, being ignored is often worse than being abused, because to a developing brain, any attention is better than no attention. Attention is the primary human need. Neglect triggers the primal fear of being alone in the wilderness with no caretakers, which to an infant means death. In regards to shame, no attention (neglect) signals to the child that they don't deserve to exist at all, and that their True Self actually doesn't exist. Enormous emptiness and excruciating shame for merely existing replaces their True Self almost completely. Also neglect can be more difficult to heal because you rarely have memories that you can access in order to bring up the emotions you need to work through. Its quite invalidating to never hear about the corrosive effects of emotional neglect in psychology / healing videos.
Hi anaflower, thanks for bringing this to our attention. Yes, for sure being ignored can lead to the development of an identity based on toxic shame. Irene does often talk about neglect though she often describes the experience of neglect more than she uses that term. I'll bring this to her attention. - Jen from Team Lyon
@@teamlyon3109 Thank you:)
agreed, ive also suffered neglect, nobody ever talks about that
@@lv9265 🙏💚
I second this
Your unpacking of the topic of shame is very clear; as a child growing up, I remember the shame I always carried and that burden grew and grew and has sculpted my life. It is horrible and painful to feel my parents wished me dead and never wanted us. I see the shame ooze out sometimes in my own parenting when I get very stressed, despite all the classes, courses et al, I've take over the years. Thank you for your video offerings, as they can situate me and others, on a path to self awareness.
Thank you so much for this video. I work with a polyvagal therapist and one month ago -- as a 30 year old -- discovered the sensation disgust. It is heavily coupled with sexual sensations for me. I found it was a deeply unpleasant emotion to experience, but the clarity from uncoupling disgust and sexuality helped alleviate the painful anxiety and confusion of toxic shame.
Can you say more about this? I'm going through a similar experience but I'm struggling to bring up feelings of disgust. I feel that it's buried deep inside me, but I can't access it. I don't want to push it, but I'm curious if there's anything that can help facilitate the process
@@richardzhou2659 Personally I've found EMDR therapy (with a good therapist) along with group therapy has been the most effective and safe combination of therapies. The group therapy really helps calm shame and feelings of isolation. No matter what the unique state of mind is and complex of emotions -- you're never alone. And EMDR is very useful as it pushes your subconscious to the forefront. Uncomfortable of course but necessary.
best video I have watched on this topic, thanks for being so direct, real and getting to the point
Spot on, especially the parts about nervous system, physiological and subconscious imprints - so hard to move beyond!
Thanks Irene. I do understand the difference between toxic and healthy shame but got triggered this morning. Guess I smelt a dead rat. I’m ready and appreciative your great work in this area
I needed this video when you posted it 2 years ago. Literally had physical episodes of nausea and severe disgust that came at odd times and I was googling frantically about why cerain situations gave me that feeling. Thank you so much
Wow. This is amazing. I am so suppressed and blocked. This makes such sense. Thank you for this message and for help with overcoming it. You are a blessing!
She shamed me to oblivion - and now I live there.
(A poem I wrote about my relationship with my mother and my lifelong mental illness.)
Thanks for sharing. A powerful poem.
I hope this video gave you some insight.
Change is possible! Especially when we step out of victim (which often comes with that toxic shame).
And then maybe the poem might eventually read "and then I lived there. Until I discovered something else was possible..."
Wishing you support in your experience.
Nicole - Team Lyon
Don’t accept it, trauma can end!
I've watched a lot of your videos and this one is by far my favorite. Thank you for the work you're doing 🙏
I didn't know it was toxic shame that caused depression....! I knew repression of feelings did . So, allowing discust yes and anger feels closely related. I've been experimenting with self assertion. And allowing myself to feel my anger genuinely without having to hurt myself or other people. This work is helping me cognitively understand while I process these safer experiences with my aggression and asserting my self. But most importantly by not hurting myself or other people while I do it. Which makes me feel safe and trusting of myself. When facing trauma before, without having these tools/ways of being connected and present for myself via your help, and therapy....I got stuck in an anger cycle for about 9 months Where I became addicted to being angry almost? And I ruined a lot of relationships. On purpose almost. So, very self destructive. I'm catching it now though more and being with it all differently. Which is allowing it to come up and out I think. Thankyou so much this information is helping me integrate things more stably. 💕🧠❤
Thank you so much Irene for sharing this information. I am truly grateful.
Thanks for watching!
Irene has a ton of resources (if you haven't already checked them out!)
If you're interested in more information I suggest:
The Healing Trauma Series - irenelyon.com/healing-trauma
Or the 21 Day Tune-Up - irenelyon.com/tuneup/
If you have questions, please feel free to reach out!
Nicole - Team Lyon
Best explanation/discussion I’ve seen online! Thank you for this video!
I am pretty much a loner. Wheres a good place to start with healing this toxic shame? What are some good books or sites ?
Thank you for this video! It’s my first to watch and it was right on mark. I was the scapegoat and not only my family saw me as the rotten egg but also the extended family, teachers and Sunday school teachers, my parents’ friends and our whole church, not that I have something against religion today. I have been diagnosed with depression 21 years ago and told to stay on meds for the rest of my life. But I am a rebel so I don’t do that only from time to time. Therapy was mostly a waste of time and money for me.
I will devour every video and article you have. And any courses too. Thank you!
By the way I think you should connect with a social worker in Massachusetts, Patrick Teahan, he’s another sane voice in this confused therapy world. I live near London, so nothing in it for me. 😊❤
i know this is an old video & i dont typically comment on things like this especially for fear of vulnerability on the internet 🥴 but i am mindblown . something triggered me , ( really a part of a repetitive pattern within my life ) & i decided to sit with & really deep dive into the emotion this time & i discovered that the root of my emotion was shame . as i was feeling the emotion i decided to write down what came up & amongst other self hating things ... was the word disgusted . & its funny because as i was really trying to tap into & feel my shame i found myself being avoidant & veering off , almost trying to distract myself b|c it is a pretty scary ( for lack of better word ) feeling . i feel like im pretty self aware so i noticed thats what was happening . & its also insane b|c i was working on my self confidence not too long ago & that deep dive , i discovered that a part of me is afraid to be confident ? .. its hard to explain , but its kind of an energy of , if i stay small , other people will love or accept me or wont target me ? & now im coming across this video ~ where you basically just explained literally everything ive been finding out about myself 😭 its good to know that im not alone .
Hi Ayana, Seth here with Team Lyon. thanks so much for sharing! You are certainly not alone. I'll encourage you to keep watching Irene's channel and definitely keep up with the wonderful, brave, work you are doing with yourself. Thanks for being here.
@@IreneLyon thank *you* 🤍 im loving her content .
I am working on shame. I have felt "disgust"(recently) by how some people treated me. I know i am on the right path. But, it is getting poison out of me. I have felt the 'dead something' not quite a rat yet. But, i know it's deep. I had to go no contact with family due to mistreatment. This, it got me out of drowning swamp. I've had bad & good words from parents. I've had neglect, parentification. I've been scapegoated by siblings. Get moments daily where i sink into the dark hole.
Hi Makayla, great to hear that you are on the right path and have taking steps to support your health and growth. Seth Lyon, Irene's colleague and husband wrote an article that came to mind when I read your post so I'll link to it here.
Sometimes we have to break up with our family: sethlyon.com/sometimes-break-family/
- Jen from Team Lyon
Thank you Team Lyon- Irene Lyon for the article. It really does hit home. I know getting out of the original box is the only way to create the best version of me "unrefined" because i was always "fine". It's been a challenge; and there's been a great deal of letting go. Perfect article. Thank you. I also just realized that I responded 2 weeks ago. I truly forgot and just saw it today. Great information;-)
Im crying right now, as soon as the picture of the kid with words you're a waste of time"
💜
This is a very interesting concept. I do, as most of us, have toxic shame, but what I realized today, is that I'm disgusted by my parents. Long time ago I recognized this, but I was afraid to admit. How does this relate to my toxic shame? If in any way.
It will relate, but you need to go deeper into your body and your own healing to find out. The different ways that things relate depend on what happened to you, which isn't the same for everyone. Though from a superficial level, you could see that if you were made by your parents and they are disgusting, on some level you must think of yourself as disgusting. And there's the dead rat.
Thank you Irene for this video. Incredibly helpful!!!!
It made a lot of sense now, ugh.
Thank you for helping me❤️
It has a lot of scence. Because Ive worked with bioenergetics on my unconscious level which I didnt know that I have, like hate, so much fear, emotional addiction, etc.. I had vomit for several weeks while doing excersize. And anxiety that I feel seems to be on the surface of the toxic shame. And I had a flee response. Which I couldnt handle. My bioenergetics pushed, but I didnt feel that I could be present with these emotions. Thank you for this
Hi bebaaskaful, Seth here from Team Lyon. YEs, sadly, Bioenergetics is almost always TOO MUCH for a traumatized system, something that the practitioners of that modality that I have met don't seem to understand. It's not just about 'getting it out', first and foremost, trauma healing is about safety and building relationship. It might be good to find a good Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, and/or check out Irene's free resources and online programs. And keep watching :) Here are some links...
How to find a good somatic practitioner - th-cam.com/video/04XF7ANnqGk/w-d-xo.html
Free Resources - irenelyon.com/free-resources-2/
Irene's programs - irenelyon.com/programs/
Wow - this is such a great deep dive into healing from toxic shame! So well explained!
Lovely. Fitting. Validating. Foundational. Thank you.
you´re saving lives here. well done
Thankyou sooo soooo sooo much for this video! You are an amazing teacher! ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for these videos. 😀 Interestingly, around the time I started immersing into the videos around the nervous system and then doing the up and down online workshop, I began to notice a funny smell when I was cooking certain things. To the point I would almost feel sick from the smell and would screw my face up. It linked to a memory from childhood which was completely unrelated, but the smell was the same and that I considered not to be traumatic in itself. I twigged the last day, that my body was telling me not to reheat the mushrooms in the dish I had made the night before. I researched it and sure enough, I should not be reheating them. I had no idea. I listened though to my body's wisdom. I don't know whether that was a gateway into dealing with something that my mind cannot recall, or simply an in to help me listen more to my body. Either way, it was fascinating.
This explains why so many people raulph when doing healing work. I hadn’t puked in years until working through some daddy issues a while back. I had no idea. Thanks for this!
Question- I don’t feel like I was ever toxically shamed by anyone, then why do I have all the symptoms of someone dealing with toxic shame?
Hi Kenzie Smith, Jen here from Team Lyon. If we have early and/or developmental trauma, we may develop the symptoms of toxic shame without anyone having explicit or overtly shamed us. This can happen in response to our experience in utero, events relating to birth, and/or having parents or caregivers who did all the "right" things but didn't have much access to the ventral vagal part of their own nervous systems.
Any or all of these can lead to us not receiving the support we needed to develop a strong nervous system foundation - one where we feel socially connected and embodied, and a result is that we can end of feeling disconnected and like something is wrong with us - a.k.a. toxic shame. The great news is that we now know that we can heal this at any point in life with the right education and support. This is what Irene teaches. Hope this helps to clarify! If you want to learn more, you might check out Irene's free Healing Trauma training: irenelyon.com/healing-trauma
Team Lyon thank you!!
@@teamlyon3109 i've never heard it worded like that before, thanks!
Emotional neglect. Trauma can be a bad thing happening, but also trauma can be something that you should have had, NOT happening to you. Traditionally, trauma has been about physical, sexual or verbal abuse... but recent research is showing emotional "neglect" can be just as bad, maybe worse since there is not explicit memory of specific things. An in emotional neglect and absence of emotional attunement, a child can feel they are not "worthy" of love or attention or good enough to even be alive - toxic shame.
No fault of Team Lyon, but I hate (strong word) that so many videos talk about trauma from physical/sexual/verbal situations, but leave out the neglectful situations. It can be confusing to a victim, that remembers a childhood without explicit abuse and where basic needs were met, food, clothes, etc... but there was actually very deep neglectful and impactful trauma.
@@ShawnFin 👏🏼 thank you for validating me
Dear Irene thank you for your brilliant Information. Very worthy!💐
Wow wow WOW. Love the language and terminology. TH-cam keeps getting better!!
So healthy thank you for your explanation🙏🏼 praying for my healing and generational healing we are all in this together let’s raise the vibration🙌🏼💗🙏🏼
Thank you, Irene. That was very informative!
Very well explained ..much grattitude to you Irene
Great explanation! That, among others, is one of the main qualities by which ayahuasca does such a deep healing at a somatic, physiological and autonomous nervous system reset!
Can re-traumatization be a gateway to healing oneself? If one were to utilise the event to correctly frame the whole situation, besides successfully dealing with the ancient pain that comes up, this time around?
For context, immediately after my last abusive relationship with a narcissist had come to an end about two years ago, I had luckily enough happened to discover the truth of what what had been going on with me for years, for my whole life basically, for the first time ever. Hence, this time around, unlike the past, I hadn't tried to return to my abuser. Nor did I take recourse to alcohol or other substances. I simply chose to sit with and face the pain that had come up, while at the same time continuing to educate myself about everything. I had felt the disgust you speak of in this video, but I had felt it for the abuser, not for myself. I remember, I used to spit a lot during those months which had immeditely followed the break-up/discard, while simultaneously experiencing a state of overwhelming anxiety. I believe it may have been a manifestation of the same disgust I had felt for the abuser, but do correct me if I'm wrong. Eventually, at one point I was not blaming myself at all anymore for whatever had happened, and had successfully attributed responsibility to the actual perpetrator instead of myself. This was also a first. Earlier I simply used to numb the pain out with alcohol. It's been two years now, and I've remained single too during this period. I've also severed contact with one of my parents, whose symbolic stand-ins most of my partners were.
I think you're right, & relate to this correlation between recent & past trauma, shaming & childhood survival-tribal fears. I felt getting retraumatized was an amazing gift, like a buried wound getting lanced for healing. We're getting well! Yippee! Bless you!
Wow you are telling my story except I have been drinking the last 3 months since my breakup from the narcissist but I now made the decision to stop. Your comment gives me motivation
Retraumatization isn't necessary for healing; but if you find it's happening anyway, absolutely use it! Developing the capacity to sit with the feelings is part of healing trauma; some say we will repeat the situation in an attempt to heal it until we do, so good for you, putting your past and present suffering into context and getting the most you can from it.
And the confirmation is that you've been able to stay off your previous alcohol dependence, and stayed single, not looking for whatever attracted you to bad types anyway. Congratulations, sounds like you are doing an amazing job of self healing.
💡😶👍👍💖thank you Irene. You have such a wonderful way of bringing these hidden emotions to the surface. Dealing with the question of shame: I didn't feel it because I was so proud of myself for surviving the abuse and building my life and capacities from practically zero to a self-sufficient, well functioning, human being. This emotion of disgust brought buried feelings right to the surface and now that I can feel them (nausea, tears) I can work on healing them. You really are a gift to this world 🤗❤
Hi Diana,
Nicole here from Team Lyon.
It's SO great to hear that these feelings of disgust are coming to the surface and that you can work on healing them!
It's not always an enjoyable process - but it's worth it!
Thanks for sharing where you're at. 💕
Nicole
Thank you so much for making this video.
Wow. What a wonderfully helpful video. Thank you.
So happy i found this.
just what i Neede, thank you!!!
Thank you! This video might change my life. I feel so incredibly disgusted by animal products and flavours from my home of origin that I cry at dinner tables where there is meat. I realise now how these triggers are a gift for me.
I've been feeling guilt and shame for some years. I tried to drink myself to death. When my wrist start hurting from pouring my drink, I changed to wine. I just stopped drinking.
The Bible says confession is good for the soul.
Great vid, gonna watch some more
Really great help was this talk🙏🙏
Emoting disgust to the moral incident pushes the boundaries out.
Such an interesting video, thank you for sharing. The Lyon-Rubin method calls shame an emotion, as well as Brené Brown i think? But your definition feels more complete. Would love to hear more about that.
Holy shit this is hitting me so hard. In a good way.
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT..TRUE..TRUE..TRUE
I was born into a fundamentalist Doomsday cult and to a mother with serious mental illness and a father incapable of seeing and protecting us from either--then married for twenty years to two different abusive men--the first seriously sadistic. My shame is equal parts FEAR. And the feeling of disgust is so intense if I do not perform perfectly, which of course is impossible, is so intense I want to fold up into myself and disappear. I am 53 and still suffering deeply from this--always the constant fear and dread and shame that I am IN TROUBLE-or about to get discarded, fired, rejected, etc. Sometimes my fears are justified and other times they are my chronic pattern and is debilitating to my daily life, blood pressure, sleep--can't keep a job long as all this makes my brain work like shit and the stress either leads me to leave and try another type of work in hopes of a safer feeling. I have been in therapy for over a decade and practice yoga and do guided meditation--and yet I am constantly in survival mode--better than it was--I was 20 years ago hospitalized for sever depression with psychosis--never saw or heard things not there, but was certain my badness was irredeemable--even god thought I should die for my imperfection. So I have come a long way, but I am so discouraged and at my wit;s end and want to improve and heal. I am on Zoloft but my obsessive compulsive thoughts drive me to the edge as if I will lose my mind. I keep looking and trying to find new ways to heal....
Hey there Saffron Hammer, Seth here with Team Lyon. Sorry to hear about how difficult things are for you, this makes a lot of sense given your history. Sometimes it can be helpful to remember that all the symptoms we struggle with now are usually the result of survival demands placed on our system when we were young, demands we had no choice about. So now it's about accepting the way we are, while learning to help our physiology, and specifically our nervous system, find better options. It sounds like you are already doing a lot for yourself to get better, but if you haven't explored this nervous-system-based somatic trauma healing work, it is very likely the piece you are missing. If you feel drawn to explore it you should know that Irene's 12 week program, SmartBody SmartMind, that we run once a year is open for registration until the end of the day on Sunday. You can get a feel for her work by checking out her free resources and seeing how your system responds... irenelyon.com/free-resources-2/
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🤗❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Interesting. This really, really, hits home. I’ll check some more videos and see how it goes. I’ve been searching, unsuccessfully, for this all-emcompassing, complete self-hatred. At times I’m living in a world where I’m utterly disgusted with myself in real time, like a play-by-play that eviscerates. And then someone will break my trance and I’m dickhead me until I can calm down. Then my brain clicks repeat into infinity and the loops of disgust go on and on.
Hi there, Jen here from Irene's Team. Great to hear that Irene's video hit home. When we learn about the connection between nervous system states and our experience, it can be illuminating. The state we're in impacts our perceptions, the nature of our thoughts, feelings, how we act, ability to think clearly (or not) and more. If you haven't already seen Irene's free Healing Trauma training, I'd recommend giving it a watch. I'll link to it here.
irenelyon.com/healing-trauma
Brilliant!
Thank you 🙏🏻 ❤
Thank you so much. I have complex ptsd from being trafficked. I had many more traumas in recovery and I built up so much shame, also hidden from a violent childhood. I literally was facing down my avoidance today - sometimes can’t shower, can’t clean, then I spiral into shame. I’m so grateful for this information. I will connect and taste the dead meat - I will face the false disgust and take my power back. My avoidance was not wanting to face or taste the feelings. THANK YOU 🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍
Being 6 months pregnant I dont know if its a good idea for me to feel some of these things too much. I've been feeling more for a year and a half but im not sure how deep I should delve now. I am definitely just paying attention to my body more and letting myself cry not holding in tears, feeling the anxiety and riding that wave and encouraging myself.
Yes I came here after a shame spiral. It’s like the shame monster . I was doing so well and woke up feeling like “bad meat” . Trying to understand this and get on top of toxic shame . It’s crippling for me and my wife
Thank you 🙏
Just six minutes in and I see myself in her words ..
Hey,
Nicole here from Team Lyon.
So glad to hear that you were able to see yourself in Irene's words. You're not alone! And I hope her content provides some insight for you.
Thank you for linking disgust and shame. Is it also this where people feel better when cleaning a lot (talking about me). It's really stress relieving for me.
Hi ginger glue, Jen here from Team Lyon. Disgust and shame can be related to cleaning and feeling better, and there can be other reasons for this too from a nervous system perspective. For example, sometimes channeling nervous system activation (what people often call anxiety) into something productive can be stress relieving, as can accessing the ability to change change and order in our space.
Great video. Bringing up a bit of emotion. Back to a time of being told "you make me sick" by my mom. Thought I was taking break from 21-day Tune up! Haha. Glad in a way, that means little by little the junk is coming out. I have auto-immunes and toxic stuff inside.
Thanks for being here and doing the work Chrissy! Little by little, step by step, that's how we do it! - Seth from Team Lyon.
Thank you for this authentic topic. I have a question about it. Is it a case to vomit if nausea hits? i think it can feel like throwing out the shame somehow? Or may it can result in more disgust?
hello lovely Irene. I really enjoy your vlogs, I like your personality and your clear grasp of the topics you bravely approach. I am now studying, both for self healing and client help in recognizing shame and toxic shame and the cirucuitry of disgust. So, thank you thank you. A suggestion, when you talk about the feeling as co mpared to the feeling of smelling a dead rat, it brought me immediately to the day all my neighbours smelled this disgusting smell of rotting animals. As we began our search i found the plastic bag of my two cats who had died their sudden, unexpected and horrible death of food eaten with rat poisoning inside. It has been three years and I still grieving in waves, their deaths. I was wondering, though it is grief that perhaps needed to come up, but i was wondering if you could avoid using animals in your metaphors and use other things that may disgust us. Also, I always had pet rats growing up, ...another little trigger. I know you have not meant this to happen and perhaps most people are fine with it, my aim is to bring it to your attention. kindly, blessings on your work.
Awesome. I’m struck. I need a counselor with this knowledge.
So I should feel disgust towards what, the shame? the initial episode? just feel it in a general manner? I'm not that clear about that. But it seems to make sense to me that it might help, since disgust is a feeling very absent in my life.
Hi Alonso, Seth here from Team Lyon. The idea is to feel the disgust of that toxic shame imprint - it's something that doesn't feel good for the body to hold, like a piece of bad meat at the cellular level. It's important to remember that it's not about feeling disgusted about our self, but rather feeling our body's disgust about what it has been forced to take in and hold on to. That visceral feeling and expression can allow that toxic shame to then move out of the system - as we say in this biz, you have to feel it to heal it!
@@teamlyon3109 Yes this makes sense. I even seem to remember I have experienced this before, maybe as a child. The feeling would vibrate intensely for a moment, as I held my attention steadfast on it, and then dissolve.
@@teamlyon3109 Thanks this helps. Intuitively I would have thought that feeling disgust for the way I was treated, is empowering, and that could help move out of shame. You seem to confirm this. The video isn't very clear when Irene mentions capacity to feel "disgust for ourselves".
That said, I think that's the tricky part. To feel disgust, I would think requires to understand how we were treated. In theory this should be the work of psychotherapy and I've found it to be moderately helpful. To eg. see abuse AS abuse. We can rationally understand how we were treated wasn't right, and yet it doesn't move.
Still the video doesn't get into how you evoke this disgust. Or maybe what Irene was trying to say, is that by starting with little pieces, of the habitual "shameful posture" (both literally and figuratively), and bring consciousness into that.
Come to think of it I think this has started to happen, on brief moments. Sometimes I was stuck in a sort of freeze, an awful feeling like there is no joy left anywhere... and I noticed like a small shift... like for a short moment I became angry, a sort of internal determination.. something that said "**** IT". And this shifted the feeling and I didn't feel as helpless. Maybe that was the "disgust" Irene is talking about.
Accept the feeling of disgust / toxic shame that you have for yourself. By accepting it, validating it, honoring how it tried to protect you as a child, it transforms and is released. The toxic shame you have for yourself of not being good enough / being unworthy/ wrong, is then healed.
I think she means that , we need to" feel " and sink into a part of us which 'feels ' shame.
Meaning that our psyche fragments into parts whenever we face trauma as a coping mechanism.
One part which we can call ' shame self' is the part formed which was shamed for whatever.. This part of us feels " disgust" about our own self. This part of us probably acts as " internal parent" or internal critic which acts like a police officer for shaming ourselves all the time for whenever we dont act in accordance to a particular standard , and feels disgusted about it. Infact multiple shame selfs are created based on multiple incidents in our psyche by fragmentatiom
I think we need to tame and integrate this shame disgusted self of ours
I know I have shame around my sexuality -- probably from childhood but I have strong memories from when I was 21/22ish. Can it still impact health if the issues leading to shame occur later in life and not in childhood?
When working with such strong feelings, how do you know the right dose for your body right now?
Do you advocate digging for suppressed emotions /meditating on the reasons of physical/emotional issues for example?
Or depending on the body or soul to bring those things up when it feels time is appropriate?
You can depend on the body and soul to bring it up all right but it's never going to feel appropriate. Unless you're actually in a therapy session maybe
@@glachloser I'm not with one opinion against the other, I do both actually.
I was just asking is one better or healthier than the other.
It doesn't feel appropriate of course, it's difficult and needs patience. But my question is I guess: how hard should you push for the integration or how much you should stay in that space or invite more "work"?
Many times I feel intense body reactions to resurfacing trauma, that last long. And I wanted to know how to identify the fine line between what you're able to handle at the time and what's best to be left for later.
All this is about doing it on my own.
I hope you got my question now.
Hi @@monaabdelbaset8726, Seth here from Team Lyon. The answer to your question is, 'it depends' :). Generally we lean towards working with what naturally arises in the system, as that is usually reflective of our capacity and tool set at the given time. As we learn more though, as we get more tools, and start to deepen our capacity there can definitely be a time and place for 'pushing' on the system a bit, especially when we know there is something there that we historically have a block around working with. It's a delicate dance to be sure as we also don't want to stimulate the system past our capacity.
Having the right support for those pushes is important and you can get that support (and the tools, education, capacity) through good one-on-one work with a qualified practitioner, or enrolling in one of Irene's online programs could also be a great way to go.
@@teamlyon3109 yes, this makes perfect sense.
Thank you so much.
I think this was what I've been doing unconsciously, with both right and not so right choises ..
I'll just try to make it more conscious and deliberate.. More body aware.
Much appreciated.
I rely love your work.
I was experiencing a dream this morning, that was so disgusting that it woke me up.. hence why I’m researching the topic and trying to process it the best I can. I’ve been doing a lot of healing through my dreams this week, but I’ve never experienced the “disgust” emotion until now..
So yes, I believe your body/soul will lead you those emotions when you’re ready to release.
Thank you 🙏 do you have any resources for developing an understanding of our internal biological responses/feelings? I can’t properly tune in to everything, due to emotional neglect and many abuse I’ve relationships. I feel some, but I feel I’ve got a long way to go. I was always looking for external things to navigate feelings in others and survival
A very difficult concept to recognise due to high levels of toxic shame and survival trauma in my system. Its very subtle for me almost unrecognisable but its there that uckness.
Shame is absolutely an emotion.
shame and guilt are two different things. "healthy shame" is guilt.
shame is when you think you are a bad person because of what you did or what happened to you. guilt is when you realize what you did was wrong but you know that doesn't change who you are as a person.
Hi Larissa, Jen here from Team Lyon. Thanks for chiming in here. Different approaches teach different definitions. In this nervous system way of looking at things we focus heavily on the physiological response. In this way of looking at things, healthy shame is different from and has a different visceral response than guilt (which is often more of a mental construct). Hope this helps clarify.
I was deeply verbally and emotionally abused by my father since I was born. I am 40 and still am. I always fought, I still do. I don't see him often. I left my country 15 years ago. I see him once a year. He is bipolar, narcissistic, alcoholic and takes adhd medication daily. I have never allowed him to insult me without fighting him. I have never felt I was the bad meat. I recently saw him and it was the same shit. A couple of days ago I started feeling very angry at him, remembering everything he has done to us. I asked my body to give me more info about the sensation and disgust came up. My face changed into that of smelling a dead rat, writing this it still does. When I asked my body where was it located I felt it was not within. I felt disgust outside of me. I will have to go deeper here. But I wonder if feeling disgust by an abuser is also the gateway for healing. Up until now I tried to feel compassion. Forgive. Understand he is mentally ill. I can't anymore, I just feel disgust. It's big.
yomi, Jen here from Team Lyon. Yes, for sure. The disgust we feel as we do this work to heal is often toward something or someone who hurt us. So yes, feeling disgust towards an abuser is a gateway for healing.
I'm at the stage that i do smell the dead rat, every time i think about a past, or when my body is calm, my heart starts racing and a funny smell appears, like a memory triggers a scent, and i start to throw up almost everyday. i hate it!!!!....
Hi. Nicole here from Team Lyon.
Arg. Not a pleasant experience. But one that needs to be experienced to move through. Some extra support might be helpful in this process.
If you're looking for someone to work with I would suggest checking out this video - th-cam.com/video/04XF7ANnqGk/w-d-xo.html
I hope things start to shift for you soon 🤞🏼
Nicole
I think I may dealing with that as well. I know I have shame and now with some nausea daily
and it might feel like a dead rat - BUT YOU DESERVE IT!!! ( to heal ! )