You did such a great job explaining different BCD's, you need a part 2: Bottom Bracket standards. I am sure many people would be interested in how you determine what BB you need when building up your project bikes.
"Standard!!!" there is no standard when bikes are concerned!!! I've never known an industry to have SO MANY standards doing the same thing!!! At least they can agree that a bike has two wheels!! ;-)
this is a example.. if the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) banned your bike in a competition under them it means your bike is not standard for their qualification. One of the best example of that is the Old Faithful bike of Graeme Obree. So Yes there are still what we call standard for bikes that someone to follow. it depends on what are you on a bike thing like competitive or just casual
The bike industry has no idea what a 'standard' actually is. In the manufacturing and mechanical industries, a STANDARD is a benchmark. A mechanical fact that has been proven functional, tried and true and tested over a long period of time. There is documentation providing such information used by engineers, designers and fabricators. Now compare this to all the crap marketing BS that the larger bike industry produces! Historically, in the bike biz, it wasn't always this way.
Hello Sir, iam a Bike Mechanic from Austria- just a Tip on Measuring the BCD on 5 Bolt Cranks: Measure from middle of 1st Bolt (hole) to the middle of the 2nd Bolt (hole) next to it and multiply by the Factor 1,7= BCD. Love your Videos- keep it up!
Wolf Tooth has a BCD paper template you can print out to match up chain rings and cranksets. I use it all the time. My biggest challenge is finding shorter 165-170mm cranksets that I prefer over 175mm lengths which were more standard back in the day.
Aside from BCD measurements, there is also symmetrical and asymmetrical chain rings that needs to be taken into consideration. Best way to measure BCD is to take a measurement from the crank bolt center to one of the chain ring bolt center then multiply by 2.
I like this! But guessing at the exact center of the holes is not accurate, and with this method you double your mistake. Good enough for the more common sizes though I reckon. But if you have an uncommon size that’s close to a common size you’ll wind up ordering an incompatible part.
Yes, you must round your BCD measurements to the nearest common sizes on the market. For the uncommon BCD sizes you must do what Old Shovel have done, a little drilling is needed.
I love educational videos, I hope you add more "geeking out" vids to your repertoire. I'd love a detailed look at wheel building or selecting/indexing/adjusting derailleurs or matching derailleurs with the shifter/selectors etc. Basically, all the "geeky" things. I want to learn about it all and you've got a great teaching style/method.
Great video as always. I recently converted my old 90s Stumpjumper to 1x11, and with a clutched derailleur, and a 94bcd 42t chainring (not nw), have only had the chain come off once in 3 months. Was an experiment while waiting on a 94bcd nw ring, but works better than expected.
You didn’t explain why you put the chainring on the back of the crank - I know it’s to get the centreline of the chain in the correct place - but some viewers may not know that the 1x chainring has to line up with the centre of the cassette. One may need thin spacers on the bb to get it right. On square taper bb’s spindle length is also important for chain line.
I find the most difficult part is finding cranks that have removeable chainrings. The chainrings are available online but the cranks can be expensive. Since I usually work with lower end bikes the crank/chainrings are usually welded. I've actually bought bikes just so I can salvage a good chainring. Sheldon Brown shows how to measure BCD using adjacent bolt holes but I'm sure you know about that. Good video.
Great. 42T should be perfect. I have a couple of bikes with 42 in the front and they don’t spin out until about 30 mph. That SHOULD be plenty. With a 50 in the back, you can likely still pull a truck uphill, albeit very slowly.
At 11:15 you re talking of that cool antique crank sets but when you grow in age you will find that the non binded rods are giving a narrow distance between the feet and this hursts your old bone joints, then you will love the newer ones.
The chain line should be mentioned as well. I tried a 1X setup on my oldschool xc mtb. 44T front to 11-50 rear. I noticed that I don't need that 44/11, so I swapped for a 38/11-50 and a perfect chain line. Since you have the most torque on the low gear, you want want to see your chain in a straight line there. On my commuting bike I'm running a 1X 42T/11-46. It's an oval chainring made by Garbaruk. You wouldn't believe it, but the oval chainring makes climbing feel so much easier. Perhaps you want to consider that for a future build.
love your videos. I just did some math and I think you can measure BCD on a five-arm spider by measuring the distance between two adjacent bolt holes and multiplying by 2(sin54)/(sin72) which is around 1.7.
Good decision: with a 11-51 cassette even with a 42 chainring you'll have plenty of low gear to climb steep hills, but you'll appreciate the taller gear for high speed!
You should try to have a episode of restoration Rear Derailers and discuss on What would be good one for re and what not good to restore. Also that discussion on which Derailers front and back derailers for which bike would work best. Also that have different episodes on which year of older bikes are capable of having upgraded updated parts.
BCD is a familiar concept to anyone who's ever shopped for wheels to fit an automobile. How many holes, how far from the center of the hub. It's easy to get very close on a five-hole ring or spider by simply finding a circular object around your house or shop that lines up to the center of the holes then measuring the diameter of that object. Jars, bowls, etc. are often good candidates for this.
Single 5x94 BCD narrow-wide chainrings may be ordered on commission from Garbaruk. They certainly deliver in mainland Europe, although I am not sure whether they distribute to the US.
If you need to measure a 5-bolt crank or chainring, you can measure between one hole on one side, and either of the two opposite holes, then divide by 0.95 to get an accurate-enough result. For example, if you measure 123.5mm between opposite holes, then 123.5mm/0.95 = 130mm.
Please just go even biggen on the streetfighter, I have a new cannondale tesoro on 40c tires and I run 11-28 10s cassette xtr group with a 46t chainring and it Gers me everywhere. But i agree 40t of 42 would be better but you can go bigger at the front
Also your wheel size matters when you choose your chainring. It is different for an oldschool 26” or something like 700c or 29”. I found that the hard way😂
I found a KHS flite for 80 bucks I'm about to buy, guy says needs shifting tinkering, I bet it's a loose cable, in good shape, it's silver I'm not sure the year, the rear triangles are kinda swept on top, I need to get me a bike stand and tool kit, I miss working at the bike shop.
I'm looking for advice on frame touch up. . .what kind of primer would you use on a steel frame? I am fixing up an '86 trek road bike. . .I have the naval jelly to eliminate the rust. . .any tips would be welcome
I've just installed a Eagle NX 12 speed on my own street fighter project. I can't seem to get the gears indexed properly. I'm using a 46 tooth chainring. I was was wondering if it was to big for the rear derailleur?
Can 144bcd work on a mtb bike or are the arms too long that they will come into contact with the frame? I was also thinking about trying a newer spindle crank on my 90s frame but I was worried about the chain line being too wide. Will it work?
Good question. I think it is a good possibility that the arms or the larger chainrings that would fit on a 144 bcd chainring would start to touch the chainstay on a mountain bike but I would guess it would depend on the bike. It could be corrected a bit using a larger/longer spindle bottom bracket to move the cranks further out but that would also affect the chain line. Good question though. Thanks for commenting.
I want a crankset, i guess 3 piece, 110 bcd, with 200mm arms, a chainring protector, and 44t + 36t chainrings. Can anyone tell me where i can find such a crankset without spending $500?
I like getting bike nerdy. Please do more of these as a filler between builds. Is the 94mm BCD STX really common? I had a bizarre STX ('94 I believe) where the small cog was a carrier for all of the others... I ended up finding a vintage 110mm XT to keep the look. The only problem is the 75mm crank length which is way too long for most people by modern standards.
Paul, thanks for the feedback. And yes, back in the 90’s the 94 bcd, “compact” crankset was quite common and so there are a lot out there. Now though, since it is an old standard, there are few 1x chain ring options out there. The Wolf Tooth chainring I showed Is about the only one regularly available. There are some boutiques shops that make some but they are typically done in small batches and are hard to get.
That sounds like a 90’s Shimano Alivio crankset. The bcd is much smaller and the rings are pressed with one set of bolts to the spider. I’ve also struggled to find a 94bcd 5 hole narrow wide chain ring for a Stx 90’s crankset. I had to source a Shimano 300lx crank 5 arm/spider with a 110bcd chainring.
I wish there was. I have not been able to find any other inexpensive options. There are a few boutique shops that make some in small batches but they are also expensive.
Thanks a lot for the video! The only information I missed here is: do I need to make the chain longer? There are a lot of chain length calculators to check this, and it seems that your rear derailleur is in a weak position when driving 42/52. Is it really so, or +4 tooth is not so critical? I am looking for opportunity to change front 46 tooth to 50 tooth on my Cannondale Topstone, but I am using three chains and it's not so cool to change them all =)
Also, I have a question- what shock did you use on that old Specialized enduro? I'm building one of those right now and trying to figure out what to use for the rear shock.
Hoi hier jan uit Nederland. I ready like tour video's. There are companies in our country that dril and make or produce the right chainrings. Every bcd every thoot ect..
You didn't mention whether you were using a rear derailleur with a clutch or not? That is the other piece of using a 1x system with such a large cassette. Perhaps because it wasn't adjusted, but your photo at the end where you were shifting the bike sounded awful, hopefully it simply needs some adjustment and a rear derailleur that has a clutch??
Your right, it does have a clutch. With the shifting I was more checking if the cassette and derailleur would work ok with the 42t front chain ring and the 51t rear cog without over extending the derailleur cage so I was shifting multiple gears at a time. It was a bit loud though.
Noted 😁 I try my best to make good content. I do have a bit of a silly side that often does not show in my videos. It’s always hard to know what will work and what will not but I do appreciate feedback.
![[TH] VALORANT Champions Seoul - Grand Final - EDG vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WvObMc9VelI/mqdefault.jpg)
You did such a great job explaining different BCD's, you need a part 2: Bottom Bracket standards. I am sure many people would be interested in how you determine what BB you need when building up your project bikes.
"Standard!!!" there is no standard when bikes are concerned!!! I've never known an industry to have SO MANY standards doing the same thing!!! At least they can agree that a bike has two wheels!! ;-)
Lol 😂 so true.
this is a example..
if the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) banned your bike in a competition under them it means your bike is not standard for their qualification. One of the best example of that is the Old Faithful bike of Graeme Obree. So Yes there are still what we call standard for bikes that someone to follow. it depends on what are you on a bike thing like competitive or just casual
The bike industry has no idea what a 'standard' actually is.
In the manufacturing
and mechanical industries, a STANDARD is a benchmark. A mechanical fact that has been proven functional, tried and true and tested over a long period of time. There is documentation providing such information used by engineers, designers and fabricators.
Now compare this to all the crap marketing BS that the larger bike industry produces!
Historically, in the bike biz, it wasn't always this way.
Hello Sir, iam a Bike Mechanic from Austria- just a Tip on Measuring the BCD on 5 Bolt Cranks: Measure from middle of 1st Bolt (hole) to the middle of the 2nd Bolt (hole) next to it and multiply by the Factor 1,7= BCD. Love your Videos- keep it up!
Top tip: Measure from the centre of the bolt hole to the centre of the crank and double the number.
Wolf Tooth has a BCD paper template you can print out to match up chain rings and cranksets. I use it all the time. My biggest challenge is finding shorter 165-170mm cranksets that I prefer over 175mm lengths which were more standard back in the day.
Aside from BCD measurements, there is also symmetrical and asymmetrical chain rings that needs to be taken into consideration. Best way to measure BCD is to take a measurement from the crank bolt center to one of the chain ring bolt center then multiply by 2.
I like this! But guessing at the exact center of the holes is not accurate, and with this method you double your mistake. Good enough for the more common sizes though I reckon. But if you have an uncommon size that’s close to a common size you’ll wind up ordering an incompatible part.
Yes, you must round your BCD measurements to the nearest common sizes on the market. For the uncommon BCD sizes you must do what Old Shovel have done, a little drilling is needed.
I love educational videos, I hope you add more "geeking out" vids to your repertoire. I'd love a detailed look at wheel building or selecting/indexing/adjusting derailleurs or matching derailleurs with the shifter/selectors etc. Basically, all the "geeky" things. I want to learn about it all and you've got a great teaching style/method.
@oldshovel
👆 Is this legit or scammy?
Man, great description! As far as I know, the 5x144 BCD from your Sugino cranks and 5x135 are the Campagnolo older road standards.
Love it! Please do more like it!
For those of us who are looking to "give those old things new life" it's great to have the tech support to do so.
Perfect timing with this as I am currently converting my 90s hardrock to a 1x9. Thanks for the super informative video!
Just converted my 1995 Trek 6000 from 3x8 to 1x9…
Great! Just did a 94 Hard rock with a 1x10. Works great!
Great explanation on BCD's! Also, that ultegra crank looks sharp on a 1x setup.
Great video as always. I recently converted my old 90s Stumpjumper to 1x11, and with a clutched derailleur, and a 94bcd 42t chainring (not nw), have only had the chain come off once in 3 months. Was an experiment while waiting on a 94bcd nw ring, but works better than expected.
Since I am just getting started this coming winter on rebuilding a bike for the first time i appreciate the bike nerdery!
You didn’t explain why you put the chainring on the back of the crank - I know it’s to get the centreline of the chain in the correct place - but some viewers may not know that the 1x chainring has to line up with the centre of the cassette. One may need thin spacers on the bb to get it right. On square taper bb’s spindle length is also important for chain line.
Spot on John. Perhaps I should do another video in the future for the drivetrain setup. Thanks for sharing.
I find the most difficult part is finding cranks that have removeable chainrings. The chainrings are available online but the cranks can be expensive. Since I usually work with lower end bikes the crank/chainrings are usually welded. I've actually bought bikes just so I can salvage a good chainring. Sheldon Brown shows how to measure BCD using adjacent bolt holes but I'm sure you know about that. Good video.
Great. 42T should be perfect. I have a couple of bikes with 42 in the front and they don’t spin out until about 30 mph. That SHOULD be plenty. With a 50 in the back, you can likely still pull a truck uphill, albeit very slowly.
I’ve thought the same thing with the 51 in the back. 😂🙌
At 11:15 you re talking of that cool antique crank sets but when you grow in age you will find that the non binded rods are giving a narrow distance between the feet and this hursts your old bone joints, then you will love the newer ones.
The chain line should be mentioned as well. I tried a 1X setup on my oldschool xc mtb. 44T front to 11-50 rear. I noticed that I don't need that 44/11, so I swapped for a 38/11-50 and a perfect chain line. Since you have the most torque on the low gear, you want want to see your chain in a straight line there. On my commuting bike I'm running a 1X 42T/11-46. It's an oval chainring made by Garbaruk. You wouldn't believe it, but the oval chainring makes climbing feel so much easier. Perhaps you want to consider that for a future build.
This video and all the ones I saw, helpful, and educational, my bike upgrade inspired by your work sir .
Thanks my friend
I learned a lot about the spacing of the cranksets, the material is great.
4:04 thank you so much! I was planning to throw it but gonna look for compatible chainrings.
Great vid buddy, some real handy information shared there 👍🚲
Never understood the bcd. Thank-you. That 5 versus 4 has tripped me up in the past.
🙌
Its nice to get a refresher course on BCD. Thanks for posting this vid! Hope your orange chain ring bolts find their home...........
love your videos. I just did some math and I think you can measure BCD on a five-arm spider by measuring the distance between two adjacent bolt holes and multiplying by 2(sin54)/(sin72) which is around 1.7.
Wow, I wasn't aware of all those bolt patterns for cranksets. Excellent video Oldshovel! I still have 2 bikes with Biopace. I like those oval rings.
You could draw concentric circles on a sheet of paper for al the bcd's and see if the holes line up.
Good decision: with a 11-51 cassette even with a 42 chainring you'll have plenty of low gear to climb steep hills, but you'll appreciate the taller gear for high speed!
You should try to have a episode of restoration Rear Derailers and discuss on
What would be good one for re and what not good to restore. Also that discussion on which Derailers front and back derailers for which bike would work best.
Also that have different episodes on which year of older bikes are capable of having upgraded updated parts.
BCD is a familiar concept to anyone who's ever shopped for wheels to fit an automobile. How many holes, how far from the center of the hub. It's easy to get very close on a five-hole ring or spider by simply finding a circular object around your house or shop that lines up to the center of the holes then measuring the diameter of that object. Jars, bowls, etc. are often good candidates for this.
Good tip
110 BCD is a common road bike chain ring size found on compact road bike crank arms, typically 50/34 teeth chain rings.
Find yourself a Park tool CDG-2 Chainring diameter gauge. They are discontinued but you can find them on eBay occasionally.
Saw that tool at the co-op and didn't know what it was for. You can always download and print a free measurement chart from Wolf Tooth's web page.
I should check out eBay for one. I hadn’t thought of that. The Salt Lake Bicycle Collective has one and your right, it is super helpful.
There is a brunch of 144 bcd chain ring from the fixed gear guys helpfully you can find one and use thoses gorgeous suginos's!
A very useful video, thanks
Thanks. I enjoyed the bike nerding.
Single 5x94 BCD narrow-wide chainrings may be ordered on commission from Garbaruk. They certainly deliver in mainland Europe, although I am not sure whether they distribute to the US.
Very informative! Thank you. I'm trying to decide what my options are for my single speed that needs a new bottom bracket.
If you need to measure a 5-bolt crank or chainring, you can measure between one hole on one side, and either of the two opposite holes, then divide by 0.95 to get an accurate-enough result. For example, if you measure 123.5mm between opposite holes, then 123.5mm/0.95 = 130mm.
Please just go even biggen on the streetfighter, I have a new cannondale tesoro on 40c tires and I run 11-28 10s cassette xtr group with a 46t chainring and it Gers me everywhere. But i agree 40t of 42 would be better but you can go bigger at the front
Thats the way my GT Avalanche Sport came a 2 x 9 has a real small sprocket and little bit bigger sprocket
ill take the Gary fisher frame off your hands sir and all those vintage parts wow!
Informative, thank you 😊
Thanks
nice to see you use an exterior bb , your always using those sealed boys ! lol
I want to see your street fighter when you get the orange bolts. I think that would be a good time to stare at it.
I would like to know how certain cog sizes can fit together with different bike builds. Big fan. Greetings from Yorkshire
Thanks
Also your wheel size matters when you choose your chainring. It is different for an oldschool 26” or something like 700c or 29”. I found that the hard way😂
Those Sugino cranks are too nice to butcher, they belong on a klunker, just my opionion though 🤘
Thank you ❤️
Very nice, but ultegra on mtb? I can't get it.. Maybe I am so purist to don't even think about such idea.
It’s a road bike with mtb flat bars. 😁
у меня тоже есть хорошие шатуны. наверное надо заказать на чпу звездочки 94 bcd, или делать переходник на 110
I found a KHS flite for 80 bucks I'm about to buy, guy says needs shifting tinkering, I bet it's a loose cable, in good shape, it's silver I'm not sure the year, the rear triangles are kinda swept on top, I need to get me a bike stand and tool kit, I miss working at the bike shop.
I'll make it into a street fighter it's got road bike gearing 2x7 I think, I'd like to go 1x9 microshift maybe.
When you talk, I learn!
How I measure 5 arm crank bcd : measure crank center to bolt then times 2.
Good tip. 🙌
Good tip if it's already on the crank. If it's a loose ring you'll need to measure to another hole then do some math
Can you tell me what are the characteristics of a street fighter bicycle
I'm looking for advice on frame touch up. . .what kind of primer would you use on a steel frame? I am fixing up an '86 trek road bike. . .I have the naval jelly to eliminate the rust. . .any tips would be welcome
Great explaination, Did you have to add links when you went up in size on the chain ring?
I've just installed a Eagle NX 12 speed on my own street fighter project. I can't seem to get the gears indexed properly. I'm using a 46 tooth chainring. I was was wondering if it was to big for the rear derailleur?
How does it pedal? In my case it wouldn’t work, but I’m curious to try one with a one by front chain with large tooth .
Hi am Manuel from dominican repúblic i like your video
Can 144bcd work on a mtb bike or are the arms too long that they will come into contact with the frame? I was also thinking about trying a newer spindle crank on my 90s frame but I was worried about the chain line being too wide. Will it work?
Good question. I think it is a good possibility that the arms or the larger chainrings that would fit on a 144 bcd chainring would start to touch the chainstay on a mountain bike but I would guess it would depend on the bike. It could be corrected a bit using a larger/longer spindle bottom bracket to move the cranks further out but that would also affect the chain line. Good question though. Thanks for commenting.
I want a crankset, i guess 3 piece, 110 bcd, with 200mm arms, a chainring protector, and 44t + 36t chainrings. Can anyone tell me where i can find such a crankset without spending $500?
I like getting bike nerdy. Please do more of these as a filler between builds. Is the 94mm BCD STX really common? I had a bizarre STX ('94 I believe) where the small cog was a carrier for all of the others... I ended up finding a vintage 110mm XT to keep the look. The only problem is the 75mm crank length which is way too long for most people by modern standards.
Oops, meant 175mm crank length
Paul, thanks for the feedback. And yes, back in the 90’s the 94 bcd, “compact” crankset was quite common and so there are a lot out there. Now though, since it is an old standard, there are few 1x chain ring options out there. The Wolf Tooth chainring I showed Is about the only one regularly available. There are some boutiques shops that make some but they are typically done in small batches and are hard to get.
@@pokeypaul78 175mm cranks are very common on large and extra large bikes, I prefer 165 but i think 170 is perfect for most riders.
That sounds like a 90’s Shimano Alivio crankset. The bcd is much smaller and the rings are pressed with one set of bolts to the spider. I’ve also struggled to find a 94bcd 5 hole narrow wide chain ring for a Stx 90’s crankset. I had to source a Shimano 300lx crank 5 arm/spider with a 110bcd chainring.
Are you using road shifters on this bike? Are road shifters compatible with these cassettes/derailleurs? Cheersss!!
36x13
My shram has a 32 is that ok for one by nibe
Hii, any other option much cheaper than this 94bcd chainring from wolftooth? It is a pity we cant re-use our vintage crank...
I wish there was. I have not been able to find any other inexpensive options. There are a few boutique shops that make some in small batches but they are also expensive.
As far as that Sugino 144BCD crankset goes, what about a single speed?
That is an option I have considered since there are great single speed chain rings.
Thanks a lot for the video! The only information I missed here is: do I need to make the chain longer? There are a lot of chain length calculators to check this, and it seems that your rear derailleur is in a weak position when driving 42/52. Is it really so, or +4 tooth is not so critical? I am looking for opportunity to change front 46 tooth to 50 tooth on my Cannondale Topstone, but I am using three chains and it's not so cool to change them all =)
Also, I have a question- what shock did you use on that old Specialized enduro? I'm building one of those right now and trying to figure out what to use for the rear shock.
If you wanna go 144, Just make it single speed or fixed, Cause 144bcd are still inherently common on the fixed gear side of cycling,
nice ❤️
Thanks
OMG!!! Your bike tools and the way you layout-them organized ༼;´༎ຶ ༎ຶ༽👏👏👏😻
Como eu queria ter uma cannodale t700 mas, para chegar aqui no BRAZIL seria muito caro😭😢😭😢
Do you sell your Bob Ross Style hardtail? And do you send Bikes to Germany? 😀🙋🏻♂️
Hoi hier jan uit Nederland.
I ready like tour video's. There are companies in our country that dril and make or produce the right chainrings.
Every bcd every thoot ect..
Here you can order every chainring. They make them costum.
Cassette rings are cogs
I like your builds. I have a bike I would like to share with you. Do you have an email where I could send pics ?
You didn't mention whether you were using a rear derailleur with a clutch or not? That is the other piece of using a 1x system with such a large cassette. Perhaps because it wasn't adjusted, but your photo at the end where you were shifting the bike sounded awful, hopefully it simply needs some adjustment and a rear derailleur that has a clutch??
Your right, it does have a clutch. With the shifting I was more checking if the cassette and derailleur would work ok with the 42t front chain ring and the 51t rear cog without over extending the derailleur cage so I was shifting multiple gears at a time. It was a bit loud though.
That thumbnail bro...
😁 it’s all a YT experiment
Spare us with these thumbnail designs, please!
I agree, these type of thumbnails do not reflect the serious content of the channel
Noted 😁 I try my best to make good content. I do have a bit of a silly side that often does not show in my videos. It’s always hard to know what will work and what will not but I do appreciate feedback.
Get back to your old builds simplicity and affordability