I still run 3x, 1x never made sense to me. But I also only had one aluminum bike and went straight back to steel in the late 90s. I guess I was a retro grouch 20 years before that was even a term.
@@lonsouder4699we 3x warriors are the current hipsters. How many gravel bikes do you own? I bet it is no less than 2, and a steel road bike/fixie of course 🧔
As a bike mechanic i hate triples with indexed shifter. Getting the triple to not rub in any gear combo can be a fucking nightmare. I love triples with friction, works the dream
Maybe I lack dry humor, but tagging along on this thread because love is love. Loving my "classic" triple deore xt bar end shifters on 2013 Trek 520 cromoly rim brake touring for a decade.
I started riding when 3x was the only option. I want to use all my gears biggie-big and smallie-small and the just wasn’t possible with my 3x, and that is why I love the 2x
The more I see bike videos by Path Less Pedaled and Old Shovel, the more I value my early 90s hybrid bike with it's 3X front derailleur. I think he is going to get a lot of feedback from viewers who also will mount a 2X front derailleur on their bikes. You add a little weight, but you add a lot of utility. (Maybe someone will sell kits for specific bikes.)
I like my 3x9, and not entirely because I'm a retrogrouch. I genuinely like the "man and machine" mechanical aspect of biking, and just find something satisfying about two simple sets of gears being combined to get a reasonable chainline and the cadence I want, without requiring a dinner plate sized rear cassette. Maybe it's akin to preferring a manual over an automatic car?
3x is versatile with few downsides. I will gladly add a little extra weight and wider q-factor for a wider gear range and better chainline. Cyclists just follow fads, which includes mindless 1X conversions
Yup. Mostly I use one for transportation w/11-32, and I get close ratios and straight chainlines with 2 bigger rings, and easy downshifting at every light and stop sign rather than powering through 6 clicks, and then the odd time I hit an exceptional hill I have the little 22t to throw it in and trundle up at whatever effort level I feel like. I pair it with thumbies - know what ratios you're in by feel in the dark and rain.
3X forever. The tides of time swept past me and left me with a stable of drop bar bikes with triple cranksets, friction shifting front, indexed rear. I have them set up with the iconic 24t granny gear with gear ratios in the 600+% range.
@@SolarizeYourLife Nope. In a typical ‘touring’ 3X setup you would have a 48-38-24t setup or a 46-36-24t. That gives you a higher high and a lower low. I can pedal on the downhills without spinning out as easily and have the granny gear for steep hills. In reality, I’m in the big and middle chainrings most of the time, dropping down to the granny gear when needed on hills.
I actually like both 2x11 on my road bike, and 1x11 with 44t chainring on my flatbar commuter/gravelbike that rarely sees proper hills. What annoys me is that industry got it all mixed up - they are putting triples on kids and cheep hybrid or commuter bikes that would benefit from single chainring because in my experience most non-cyclists don't understand or care how the gears on bikes work, especially in front.
What annoys me is that industry got it all mixed up - actually they don't, on a business standpoint. They can get those 3x cranksets for cheaps because they've been making them for decades and they got those in stock by the thousands. They can be easily sourced, the molds for those can be found on every bicycle factory in Asia, as compared to 1x specific cranksets (the ones with hollowtech) which are comparatively more expensive because they are newer, they are harder to make because of the tolerances of the cassette, unlike your traditional 3x.
@@turbo_nerd86 Not to mention they get to tell non-bike savvy consumers that the bike has three times more gears, regardless if many of them are redundant/not practical to use.
@@grainman6304Some gear combinations are not useful. But still it has more gepars than 1X. The redundants work to straighten the chain line and compensate the big change in cadence when shifting the front. The main reason for 1X on bikes without rear suspension is that too many people don't understand 2X and 3X properly so they think they got an upgraded bike with 1X.
Completely didn't think Russ would still be casting sensible retro excellence 5 years on. Im taking my hat off to you Russ, and clapping while standing in my living room here in Vancouver, BC.
I love buying vintage bikes from the 80’s. None if these comparability problems, lots of range, beautiful bikes. The modern bike industry is loosing its mind.
Modern bikes are so boring now. Most have a flat colour scheme and the only way to differentiate the bikes is based on the marketing gimmick they are using
At least until the 90s, in which you then had all of the compatability problems plus more competing standards and a lack of tool standardization IN ADDITION to big bike brands using cheap paint.
I have peugeot road bike from 1981. Compatibility-wise it is a nightmare. Freewheel and rear hub are proprietory maillard helicomatic, crankset has 122 bcd, bottom bracket is swiss threaded and handlebar clamp diameter is 25.0 mm. It is a nice looking frame though. What i want to say is: Even in those days compatibility was an issue.
I'm totally over all the latest 11s, 12s and even 13s..... I think my next drivetrain I'm going to save myself money AND frustration by just getting a 2x9 from Microshift.
@@VeloObscura Shimano cassette, , chain and rear mech, Sram front mech, Shimano cranks, Shimano Deore 26T granny gear, FSA 42T big ring and MicroShift thumbies. Works fabulous.
The irony - cheap supermarket bikes get 3 cogs in the front, while more expensive get 1 or 2 nowadays. Cycling industry is such a ripoff, the more you pay the less you get - by the time you spend enough to buy an 8 kg bike, the price is high enough to simply buy a new motorcycle instead :D
I still like the shifting of 2x and 3x systems, but for my general use, 1x is just fine. I get the low gears, and don't worry about the 'aspirational' gears at the top end. My current setup I'm good up to 25mph. Even with that I'm thinking of going smaller chainring. If I'm going that fast, just as likely to be coasting.
Us Bikepacker racing in the Rockies often Add a granny gear from an old triple chrankset as a bailout for extend Mtn climbs. No frt derailleur needs just stop & manually unship the chain & wrap in on the desired chainring.
Glad to see the “mini-revolt” on single cranks. I am a big fan of triples. I just bought an aluminum frame with cr-mo fork touring bike: has manual disk brakes and a TRIPLE crank 50/39/30 paired to a 7speed 12-28. Comes with 32mm tires, states can fit up to 40mm. With a chain stay of 450, should be plenty stable for long day trips at least . All for $500 brand new Motobecane Super Mirage, loving it! And made in Taiwan, ain’t China yet! ✌️👍
You added your Great sense of Humor! Clearly something you have an unrecognized talent for and should incorporate in your whole life. These moments were Brilliant: "if it's rubbing, just move it" ; "think of it as a shifting mullet - that way you can get the best of both worlds"
grand if it suits you. i managed fine with a 3 peed hub when i started cycling 60 years ago. However, for serious cycling you set up must have some big jumps between gears, 2X could give you the gear range with a smaller cassette
2 to 1 ratio on the front and 3.6 to 1 on the back. Multiply for 7.27 ratio. Great range but what derailleur will wrap that much chain? I am running a 42 32 20 and a 12-36 (6.3) that maxes the widest range 9 speed rear D I could find.
Hi Russ, another great video. For my UK Genesis Vagabond, I run a 38-24 chainring with a Deore M6000 Low Clamp, side-swing front mech with a microshift friction bar-end shifter. It has full cable housing that doesn't require stops or pulleys and mine is just cable tied in place. The other beauty of it is that it has very little rear projection behind the seat tube, so it means I can fit 2.1 rubber and full mudguards with room to spare. Just done a 7 day tour of Brittany, Northern France and it worked flawlessly and I was able to spin up all of the hills!!
I love front derailleurs. All my bikes have 'em. I run 3x7s (42/34/24 paired with a 7-speed 13-34, friction, of course!) on a couple bikes; great combo for the hilly Arizona single-tracks.
@@themoodyteam I've found the perfect combination for the hills in my area. Lately, I've been shifting with just the chainrings to roll my favorite trails, including parts of the Arizona trail; essentially reduced to a 3 gear drivetrain! 🙂
@@themoodyteam That's right. Someone (@SolarizeYourLife) seems to think 'efficiency' is all there is to riding a bike. Besides, with a 7-speed cassette, one can actually have a choice of just sticking to one chainring w/out great fear of extreme cross-chaining. Also, I don't sweat over grams. 🙂
@@SolarizeYourLife As I have said: I don't care about overlaps/redundancies. In fact, I find it reassuring. I can go on a particular gear ratio with a particular combination or other. If you didn't imply your were concerned about efficiency, what was your point? To show your deep knowledge of engineering principles? What?
Only thing I'd add to this video is that, while it's true that road bikes have lost low gears, mountain bikes have lost HIGH GEARS. Most MTBs rocking a 30-50 or 32-50 low gear are easily in the ballpark of alltime low gears (e.g., 22-36 w/26" tires was among the lowest gears on MTBs 15 years ago), but now they're spinning out at around 20mph, for better or worse.
I totally agree with the 2 by and 3 by they give you so much extra that people don't seem to see , love the two bikes you've shown , they are more my style of bike , keep up the videos their always great to see 👍
Love it. On my Surly LHT I have a down tube friction shifter for the front triple and a Ultegra 9 spd brifter for the back. I love the friction on the front, no rubbing ever!!!!!!!
People cant understand than a 3x on friction is no hassle, way to easy to shift and adjust. That being said I prefer 2x, 40/24 is perfect to me, I could get more range with 44/32/22.
Another benefit of using friction shift on the front is that you don't have to worry about whether the indexing between shifter and derailleur are compatible. I went back to friction shifting when I started using road shifters with mountain bike mechs and I haven't gone back. Simple shifting and I can easily trim the mech so it doesn't foul the chain. Nice video, I never went down the 1X rabbit hole.
Hey there! I'm curious, is there any mechanism in friction shifter that stops it from overshifting until the chain falls off? Or are those limiter screws on derailleurs enough to stop it?
@@dimass.a1507 Friction shifters have a limited range of movement, but you still set the limit screws on the derailleurs so they can't overshift. The short cable run and minimal bends with downtube shifters give a very precise shift.
@@ronmatthews1738 thanks a lot! I might try them out later courtesy of getting sick of indexing my brifter every few days before they misalign and i gotta go down 2 + up 1 instead of just down 1 everytime.
Love it. 2x for life. Those plastic cable guides that go under the bottom bracket shell - I just double stick tape them on and the cable pressure keeps them in place. Done it to a vintage carbon Look road bike and 2 90s MTBs. (Most shops should have the double cable guides sitting around)
I live in a very hilly town here in Brazil and I will never own an urban bike without 3x in the front. That's it, non negotiable. I also have 11-40 in the back. For road bike 2x is alright. 1x can disappear off the face of the earth for all care.
It is simple. They want us to spend more money on stuff that will change and change and change. You are doing a great job bro and I run a 3 x 10 XTR on my full squish and it works the charm. I can climb a wall then latter pedal at 40 mph on the dh! - M
Great content, Russ! Can you follow up with a demonstration of how you add the chain ring to the front crank. I'm my own mechanic for most things, but I rarely get into modifications or maintenance on my crank set. I suspect there are many others like me.
tip for drop bar: on old campy groupsets the front shifter isn't indexed. add, that you can do a shimergo build allowing you to use wide range mtb cassettes and voilá... 2x9 massive range climbs everything monster machine. just don't do what i did the first time around and overdo the difference in chain ring size, ending up with barely any overlap, which gets annoying pretty quick.
I have to say the idea of putting friction shifting up front with a modern maybe even electronic drive train in the back is very interesting - it opens many possibilities. and its not hard to learn cause the chain is either up or down and if you size the changerings right you dont even need to shift the front that often and can use the bike as 1x most of the time with the bailout small ring as an inexpensive option. i like it.
1. The MicroShift thumbies and bar end shifters are sold as pairs. The right can be 9-10-11 speed index depending on model AND can be converted to friction. Although i prefer the RD in index. The left hand FD shifter is sold as working either 2x or 3x.. friction only. it will work both effortlessly. 2 if you have a friend with a lathe, one off clamps etc inc offset versions are relatively easy and affordable to make. Or just visit your nearest machine shop in town. 3. Friction is the only way to shift a FD. Index front is garbage, especially for 3x. 4. Grest video!
Doing unusual things with bikes is fun! That’s one of the many reasons I like them. Who cares what others think? I have a 2x on an old Stumpjumper… a 2x1! A regular gear for flats and a low gear for hills. It’s a blast!
Just recently upgraded (or downgraded, depends how you come at it) the drivetrsin on my Marin four corners. It came with 3x9 shimano sora (50/39/30 x 11-36) , which was great. Especially when it was my first ever drop bar bike, so I had all that wide gear range for me to find what worked the best for me. And after 3 years and 16 000 km's, the bike has now 2x11 shimano grx drivetrain, with an awesome "save the front derailleur" sticker on the seat tube. 😄 Also a funny note, that when I was comparing on different gravel bikes back in 2020, most of them came with 50/34 road cranksets and had very few mounting points. Not suitable for my needs at all. So thanks Russ for advocating on the low gears and front derailleurs!
Too funny. I was on triples all my life till I discovered 1x three years ago. Im 66 and love Advent X 10 speed. Plenty of range with 34 on my gravel bike and 30 on my MTB. 11-48 , if I drop below 5 kph on the steeps then I'm faster pushing.
The bike industry moved away from multiple rings because it cut production costs by eliminating components from a groupset (remember thirty years ago, a complete group included the hubs, headset, pedals and seatpost along with the brakeset/drivetrain bits) AND the majority of riders never used all the gears they had available anyway. Most people don't live or ride near mountain ranges with great elevation changes over the course of a day where they'd need all that gear range.
I totally agree with everything you've said here. I presently have 3 bikes, an 87 bianchi 2x7, a 2013 kona sutra 3x9 and a 90's mountain bike 3x7 that I've put drop bars with tektro rl 340 brakes. Living in the northern Appalachian mountains in Quebec I do a lot of climbing, (and descending) and can always find the right gear especially when loaded for touring. I have a bike for all types of roads and trails and have still spent way less than a new 1x dedicated "gravel" bike.
Have been running a 3by Shimano Tiagra 4703 groupset (50-34-30) on my road bike for 4.5 years (about 50/50 pavement and gravel). Loving it. Am contemplating going ghetto-quintuple (a-la René Herse) using half of a cassette instead of chainrings in the front with a wide q-factor gravel shaft - for better chainline, bigger cogs in the back and shits'n'giggles, of course:)
1x has helped facilitate modern mountain bike geometry but is not necessary for most drop-bar bikes other than allowing for fatter meats and tighter chainstays. As an mtb'er I insisted on 1x for my first gravel bike (simplicity/coolness) but as the years and miles have passed I have seen the need for a much wider gear range on that bike. Thanks for the great video.
Running 1 chain ring is like a trip to the past, it's funny how ideas go around and around, I suppose 1x is new to those who haven't been cycling for very long, but it's what we had before we upgraded to a double or triple setup. Good video though, might save someone's knees.
While others have videos showing how to get less range, for more money, he has this one. Thank you, from the bottom of my cheap heart. I respect bikers who can do tricks you can't simply buy easily. A seat tube shifter? Or, shifting by the bottom of your pants?
This is fun - I just rode my 1x sram eTap 12 speed down the west coast with zero issues.. a 1x system to me pushes you to become a better stronger cyclist .. With a 40t front I only lose contact down the steeps over 40 mph which is fine for me i just tuck and rip it -- I can’t fathom why anyone who is seriously out there cycling would want bar shifters -- With Sram you can literally put wireless blips anywhere to change gears - to me this makes mechanical shifting obsolete my shifters are always were i need them and when you’re in traffic or bombing down a mountain the last thing you want is take your hands off the bars to shift -
Why odd? Cheap mtb's still get 3 cogs infront - cuz most people who buy mountainbikes, still use them as an all purpouse bike, not for sport. The real oddballs, are the people who spend thousands to get less gears and a carbon frame on a MTB - where weight matters the least.
I run 9 speed 22/36 chain rings on my bikes with a 11/36 on back. This is a smaller set of gears than the 42,46, or 50, better shifting. Lots of range and no problems as I maintain my drive train regularly!
Always wanted to try 1x but I realized that my rides are more road and touring oriented so I cannot leave my 2x and 3x. If I ever want to try giving dh a try, it'll definitely be a 1x.
@@PathLessPedaledTV , sorry I was meaning as an alternative to a cable stop clamp or a plastic under bb guide you can run under the bb with the outer cable . Many years ago when the outer cable stop was no longer put on front derailleurs but older frames had a stop braised on the bottom of the down tube the solution was to run a section of outer cable from the stop on the frame under the bb . It performs exactly the same as a plastic under bb guide . On a continuous housing frame just end the outer cable after it's run under the bb . The only proviso is the cable needs to have very little slack in it at it's slackest .
Yes! The 1X has its place, but most bikes are not that place. If you want to go far and/or travel with stuff, 2x if new. And yes , that 3X Deore LX is the Toyota Corolla/Honda Civic of drivetrains, leave it there.
I have an early 90's mtb with a period correct 3x7 drivetrain, the range is horrible, 28x28 easiest gear. While I have fun on that bike for what it is, it'll never come nowhere near close to the performance of a modern Shimano 1x12, getting rid of the front mech is single handedly the very best thing the bike industry has done and the only good thing SRAM has ever done.
I can’t understand why a pro racing cyclist would be happy with a single chainring. I even heard an ex AquaBlue rider state that it cost the team victories. From my experience racing you needed close ratios I.e. a straight through block to optimise your cadence. Years after I packed up serious racing I rode a club 3 up and was just about finished with a mile to go and couldn’t hold onto a wheel because of the 2 tooth gap on my block. I’d call it the Goldilocks’ effect because I’m sure I could have coped with the right gear. I even had a close ratio block on my touring bike (mostly camping) when I was still pretty fit and covering large distances. My 6 speed block would be something like 15,16,17,18,21,24 or maybe 16 to 26, it’s a long time ago now. It meant my top speed pedalling was only about 30 mph but I preferred having a close range for the majority of the time.
I'm currently running 4 main bikes. In order of "go to itness" : 1986 Miyata 1000 with 3X , 44/32/ 22 , 152mm cranks and a 7 speed and bar end shifters., 617% gear range. 2) 1982 Apollo with 2X, 48/34, downtube shifters, 8speed . 3) 2016 Cannondale Synapse, 2X , 50/34, 10 speed, Tiagra, 4) 1986 Rocky Mountain Hammer, 2X, 48/34, 7 speed , Microshift brifters. All in all , I don't know why I haven't converted everything to Friction.
I went friction in the rear on my 1x after I was exhausted adjusting cable pull for index. Never looking back. It’s super simple. Gear spacing is so tight nowadays, the chain never falls between gears. Just gotta listen to your drivetrain so it lands smoothly. Also there’s nothing like dumping the cassette with my pinky when creating a massive hill.
I’d love to see a video on how the 1x came to be. All of the bikes in my household are 20+ years old and all 3x. Never followed the bike industry until I started watching Russ’s videos
1x with wide range cassette (11-50) makes a lot of sense for mountain biking where there is need to move through gears rapidly, to navigate rapid drops & climbs. 1x eliminate need to shift both front & rear to get right gear. Can't see that it's needed as much on a road or gravel bike, where the inclines are more consistent. I ride single track mostly, so converted 3x to 2x by replacing 44t chainring with a bashguard. Added a 11-46t rear cassette. Mostly I use the 32t chainring, as if a 1x I do get rare use of the 22t chainring, as a granny gear for the steep climbs (particularly when I'm tired)
In addition to the MTB side, 1 by drivetrains make some sense for the high end racing road bikes, where saving grams matters and marginal aerodynamic advantages can be gained from eliminating the front derailleur.
1x also allows for much better chain retention, since 1x chainrings don't need to allow the chain to slide off for shifting. There are pros and cons to each setup.
I know you're probably not into di2, but there's a few people who have paired 2x gravel cranksets with 11 speed shimano mtb 11-51 cassettes which gives a over a 700% range, and they've gotten it to work well.
You mentioning di2 makes me think of, I've got a Shimano Alfine 11 hub I'm going to lace into 27.5 650b rim and was thinking about going 2x with it in a Surly Ogre frame. It's the manual cable and not the di2, but I was thinking that might be a cool combo. Thanks for mentioning the cassette di2!
Thank you. I really like seat tube shifters for front. Basically the lower chainring is only for heavy load when going up hill. But its nice to have it there when you need it.
I mean, the alternate bike content and seeing what's possible is super cool. But at the same point, buying a small brand steel frame 1x bike and then turning it into a different bike, running bar end shifters on a gravel bike, etc... I'm super happy with my bog standard 2x GRX and brifters, internal cable routing... it might all be industry conspiracy but it also works pretty well :)
I was riding the Tour de Steamboat gravel hundo last week. That ride has a stupid steep pitch, probably 0.25 miles @ 14%. I have a 2x Canyon Grizl (48x31 front, 11-34 rear) and averaged 290W @ 54 rpm. Brad Bingham (Bingham Built custom bikes) and his wife came by me on a 1x12 rig and they had to be spinning 70 rpm. The range on the rear cassette is absolutely huge. I assume they are lacking on the top end, but that gearing was very adequate for steep uphills.
I see a lot of comments here from riders of limited experience (either relatively new, or haven’t done all kinds of riding) or who are young, strong, and have not yet destroyed their knees climbing hills with limited gearing. The ultimate test of a cyclist is the time trial, or the long brevets, or the Tour Divide (take your pick). In all these cases the cyclist matches the gear to the course. Time trialists and brevet riders both want closely spaced gears to maximize efficiency. They are most efficient within a relatively narrow rpm range. Probably 105-115 for a time trialist, maybe 80-95 for a brevet rider. That’s 10 to 16%. Personally I like narrow gear gaps. The time trialist doesn’t need much range. The loaded tourist needs a huge amount of range, but gear spacing and efficiency is always a consideration. I suspect that the gear spacing on a mullet cluster could exceed 20%. That’s why my 71 year old legs prefer a triple for range, and the narrowest cluster the terrain dictates. 12-36 for loaded touring in hills. 13-27 for hilly centuries and club riding. 9 speed. I have run gear calculations for various drive trains using 10-11-12 clusters and I am sticking with 9 speed. Consider your riding application and use Sheldon Brown’s excellent gear calculator to see what the gaps between gears are for various configurations. A crucial range for me are the gears I use the most cruising long distances on relatively flat or slightly rolling terrain. That’s why I love my custom 13-27 (13 14 15 16 17 19 21 24 27). With a triple I can still climb most hills unloaded, and I always have the right gear for cruising conditions.
I go my gear inches rather than % range. I use 1x and 2x on different bikes. They both have pros and cons, but 2 x has always been my “go to” where I need a bit of versatility and wide range. That being said I run a Deore 11 speed/105/GRX/Wolfftooth 11 speed mullet on my Gorilla Monsoon. Why? It’s got the range for bike packing (11/51 with 32 upfront) effectively MTB gears with 105 shifters. Works great but don’t expect to be fast on the road! For other bikes and where I need a bigger top end I use 2 x. It’s nice to have the choice but 1 x is not a panacea for all gear ills!
I proudly display my "Save the Front Derailleur" sticker on the WeeHoo kid trailer I tow with my 2x9 Kona Rove. There's no way I could tow a kid trailer on the hills I do with a 1x.
Who needs gear range when you can already choose between peddling in or out of the saddle, or even walking with your bicycle? No gears, no headache. Singlespeed lives lol
I have 3*8 gears (22-36-44 * 11 - 34) with shimano xt8000 rear derailleur and 8 speed shifters: shimano st-ef51 (for cable brakes), shimano deore-lx (for hydraulic brakes), campagnolo mirage shifter (9 speed with 8 speed cassette, for cable brakes). All works, but it should not... The only trick I have used is reverse cable placement on rear derailleur to compensate pull ratio.
great video. thanks for sharing info about the cable guide(I'm now using tape for the 3rd cable). I have learned that a new world opens up to you when you have easy climbing gears with smaller jumps. We should bust gear myths like tire myths. Downhill gearing? I'm going downhill on a bike. I don't actually have to pedal at all. ;)
Yip donwhill gering is stupid, except maybe when you are with a road bike group, in which case they will leave you miles behind. That being said rodies lack any uphill gears, so you catch up soner rater than later.
I recently built a classic 2x friction shifting rando bike and immediately remembered why 1x and indexing became so popular! I’d 1x the rando bike but a giant cassette looks too weird on a vintage frameset. Thanks for the great content! 1x for life!
Thanks for posting this. I don’t get all the 1X’s out there. I passed up several bikes because they were only offered in a 1X. Another reason I love my three CO-Motions. 2X11 wide touring gears. I live in the PNW, I want and need gears!
Interested in why you think the front derailleur is “flawed”? They are several times more reliable than any rear derailleur… super simple system, reliable shifting, especially on friction shifting
I’m fighting my deep internal desires to like all this weird bike stuff and just ride a carbon 1x setup and I am loosing as I find steel and shifters in weird places so damn fascinating😂
100%! With modern (9+ speed) cassettes and chainsets, a 2x has better range and are smoother pedaling than the 80s and 90s 3x6/7 combos I've owned, with 1 exception (and that cost almost a full paycheck back in '86 just for the 8x 11-32 custom freewheel and 3x 52/42/28 crankset and axle). As for the below bottom bracket cable guide, most of the not bottom of the line steel frames have that hole threaded. If not, it is super easy to thread it or use a short self-tapping metal screw. I've done both and haven't managed to rip one off yet. (It is super handy to have even a small Harbor Freight, aka cheap/junky, tap & die set for the occasional cleaning out mount points and rescuing munged threads) Another way to add a cable stop, if you have access to vintage/old biike parts, is the downtube shifter mount clamp on band + downtube shifter mounted cable stop with barrel adjuster. There are some pretty cool ones from the 70s and early 80s, and those polished aluminum Dura-Ace downtube cable stops from the mid 90s are gorgeous IMO.
Been riding for a long time, and have ridin' everything, As I appreciate Russ's passion for "ancient bike tech", the 1X and index shifting is not dead, not even close --- :)
Side note, Jumbo Visma road cycling team has been using a 1x setup this year for some stages. The funny thing is Primoz Roglic dropped a chain on a steep uphill TT stage using a 1x. He still won, but drama. I imagine you will see them use it in the TDF.
I'm converting my early production Stumpjumper 29er for bikepacking and I love my 3x10. When I finally get a new bike it will probably be 1x and I'll probably like it just fine, but I for now I got gears for days.
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Just have to wait until the "This changes everything" cycle cycles around again and 3X becomes the must have.
Yeah, like the «More modern look!» cycle...
Yep! The "must have" is already the "I have" on both of my bicycles! Old school Sugino triples rule!
Still have a big plastic tub of the mid 90's components just waiting for their grand return!
I still run 3x, 1x never made sense to me. But I also only had one aluminum bike and went straight back to steel in the late 90s. I guess I was a retro grouch 20 years before that was even a term.
@@lonsouder4699we 3x warriors are the current hipsters. How many gravel bikes do you own? I bet it is no less than 2, and a steel road bike/fixie of course 🧔
As a bike mechanic i hate triples with indexed shifter. Getting the triple to not rub in any gear combo can be a fucking nightmare. I love triples with friction, works the dream
1X can't die, not while I'm too lazy to maintain more than a singled erailleur! and even that is pushing it.
Hubs need more love.
Just a crazy thought here, what about running 3 chainrings up front. You know, like 3 1x setups at once. 🤯 Game changer!
I'll give you my Sugino XD600T Triple crankset when you take it from my cold dead hands.... :D
Yes! Some sort of mechanism that would allow for 3 different sized chainrings to accommodate a variety of different riding conditions. Brilliant! 🤔💭💡
@@kylecunningham719 Don't let GCN know about this...
Maybe I lack dry humor, but tagging along on this thread because love is love. Loving my "classic" triple deore xt bar end shifters on 2013 Trek 520 cromoly rim brake touring for a decade.
I started riding when 3x was the only option. I want to use all my gears biggie-big and smallie-small and the just wasn’t possible with my 3x, and that is why I love the 2x
The more I see bike videos by Path Less Pedaled and Old Shovel, the more I value my early 90s hybrid bike with it's 3X front derailleur. I think he is going to get a lot of feedback from viewers who also will mount a 2X front derailleur on their bikes. You add a little weight, but you add a lot of utility. (Maybe someone will sell kits for specific bikes.)
Once you've got 2X, the added weight for 3X is minuscule, just a chain-ring, added spacer washers and another 5 m (if that) of BB axle length.
I love my 3X. I don't use that bottom ring often, but it's amazing when I need it.
So, what is the best combination? 3×7, 2×8, any other ?
@@sauravbasu8805 Different bikes for different needs, I guess.
Love my 3x bikes. Love my single-speed bikes. Would never consider a 1x.
I like my 3x9, and not entirely because I'm a retrogrouch. I genuinely like the "man and machine" mechanical aspect of biking, and just find something satisfying about two simple sets of gears being combined to get a reasonable chainline and the cadence I want, without requiring a dinner plate sized rear cassette. Maybe it's akin to preferring a manual over an automatic car?
3x is versatile with few downsides. I will gladly add a little extra weight and wider q-factor for a wider gear range and better chainline. Cyclists just follow fads, which includes mindless 1X conversions
I like the look of the dinner plates. Lol
exactly, just think about electronic dérailleur 🙃
just a nonsense to me
Yup. Mostly I use one for transportation w/11-32, and I get close ratios and straight chainlines with 2 bigger rings, and easy downshifting at every light and stop sign rather than powering through 6 clicks, and then the odd time I hit an exceptional hill I have the little 22t to throw it in and trundle up at whatever effort level I feel like.
I pair it with thumbies - know what ratios you're in by feel in the dark and rain.
^ i hear you
Running 13-30 Sachs Sedis freewheel 7speed with XC Pro Thumbies... Bombproof.
3X forever. The tides of time swept past me and left me with a stable of drop bar bikes with triple cranksets, friction shifting front, indexed rear. I have them set up with the iconic 24t granny gear with gear ratios in the 600+% range.
@@SolarizeYourLife Nope. In a typical ‘touring’ 3X setup you would have a 48-38-24t setup or a 46-36-24t. That gives you a higher high and a lower low. I can pedal on the downhills without spinning out as easily and have the granny gear for steep hills. In reality, I’m in the big and middle chainrings most of the time, dropping down to the granny gear when needed on hills.
I actually like both 2x11 on my road bike, and 1x11 with 44t chainring on my flatbar commuter/gravelbike that rarely sees proper hills. What annoys me is that industry got it all mixed up - they are putting triples on kids and cheep hybrid or commuter bikes that would benefit from single chainring because in my experience most non-cyclists don't understand or care how the gears on bikes work, especially in front.
What annoys me is that industry got it all mixed up
- actually they don't, on a business standpoint. They can get those 3x cranksets for cheaps because they've been making them for decades and they got those in stock by the thousands. They can be easily sourced, the molds for those can be found on every bicycle factory in Asia, as compared to 1x specific cranksets (the ones with hollowtech) which are comparatively more expensive because they are newer, they are harder to make because of the tolerances of the cassette, unlike your traditional 3x.
@@turbo_nerd86 Not to mention they get to tell non-bike savvy consumers that the bike has three times more gears, regardless if many of them are redundant/not practical to use.
@@grainman6304 exactly
@@grainman6304Some gear combinations are not useful. But still it has more gepars than 1X. The redundants work to straighten the chain line and compensate the big change in cadence when shifting the front. The main reason for 1X on bikes without rear suspension is that too many people don't understand 2X and 3X properly so they think they got an upgraded bike with 1X.
Completely didn't think Russ would still be casting sensible retro excellence 5 years on. Im taking my hat off to you Russ, and clapping while standing in my living room here in Vancouver, BC.
I'm imagining you standing and clapping at your TV
Even if I have no interest in trying a setup like this one, I enjoyed the video and I’m actually glad such alternatives are possible
I love buying vintage bikes from the 80’s. None if these comparability problems, lots of range, beautiful bikes. The modern bike industry is loosing its mind.
Modern bikes are so boring now. Most have a flat colour scheme and the only way to differentiate the bikes is based on the marketing gimmick they are using
At least until the 90s, in which you then had all of the compatability problems plus more competing standards and a lack of tool standardization IN ADDITION to big bike brands using cheap paint.
I have peugeot road bike from 1981. Compatibility-wise it is a nightmare. Freewheel and rear hub are proprietory maillard helicomatic, crankset has 122 bcd, bottom bracket is swiss threaded and handlebar clamp diameter is 25.0 mm. It is a nice looking frame though. What i want to say is: Even in those days compatibility was an issue.
@@tillman5529 imagine if Citroen made bikes!!
@@eezwatchnit ah shit you got me 😄. I know barely anything about cars. Whats the deal with citroens?
Triple is the new single!
8x3 with friction thumbies is my cutting edge solution. I live in a hilly town.
"If it's rubbing, just move it!" I love it. You tell them, Russ! Doubles and triples forever!
I'm totally over all the latest 11s, 12s and even 13s..... I think my next drivetrain I'm going to save myself money AND frustration by just getting a 2x9 from Microshift.
Its what i run currently. 2x9.
Cassettes and chains are sooo cheap....
@@michaelhayward7572 - I've run it in the past and will definitely be returning. Just replaced the 9 speed cassette on my partner's bike for $20!
@@VeloObscura Shimano cassette, , chain and rear mech, Sram front mech, Shimano cranks, Shimano Deore 26T granny gear, FSA 42T big ring and MicroShift thumbies. Works fabulous.
I have 2x9 on my two favorite bikes! Reliable and fun!
The irony - cheap supermarket bikes get 3 cogs in the front, while more expensive get 1 or 2 nowadays. Cycling industry is such a ripoff, the more you pay the less you get - by the time you spend enough to buy an 8 kg bike, the price is high enough to simply buy a new motorcycle instead :D
Russ
Shout-out for using your hand as a backdrop for showing small parts. Very effective!
I still like the shifting of 2x and 3x systems, but for my general use, 1x is just fine. I get the low gears, and don't worry about the 'aspirational' gears at the top end. My current setup I'm good up to 25mph. Even with that I'm thinking of going smaller chainring. If I'm going that fast, just as likely to be coasting.
Us Bikepacker racing in the Rockies often Add a granny gear from an old triple chrankset as a bailout for extend Mtn climbs. No frt derailleur needs just stop & manually unship the chain & wrap in on the desired chainring.
Glad to see the “mini-revolt” on single cranks. I am a big fan of triples. I just bought an aluminum frame with cr-mo fork touring bike: has manual disk brakes and a TRIPLE crank 50/39/30 paired to a 7speed 12-28. Comes with 32mm tires, states can fit up to 40mm. With a chain stay of 450, should be plenty stable for long day trips at least . All for $500 brand new Motobecane Super Mirage, loving it! And made in Taiwan, ain’t China yet! ✌️👍
Friction front and index rear is soooo amazing. It really changed my cycling life
Miyata 615GT...
You added your Great sense of Humor! Clearly something you have an unrecognized talent for and should incorporate in your whole life. These moments were Brilliant: "if it's rubbing, just move it" ; "think of it as a shifting mullet - that way you can get the best of both worlds"
My rides are generally quite smooth and flat. Currently using a 1x8, 46 front and 11-42 rear. Quite adequate for my situation.
grand if it suits you. i managed fine with a 3 peed hub when i started cycling 60 years ago. However, for serious cycling you set up must have some big jumps between gears, 2X could give you the gear range with a smaller cassette
Friction in the front index in the back like the 90s. Why not?!! 🔥
I love 1x. All my bikes including my road bike is 1x. To each their own.
My old XT 3x9 has a whopping 727% range! 44-32-22 chainrings and 11-40 cassete.
2 to 1 ratio on the front and 3.6 to 1 on the back. Multiply for 7.27 ratio. Great range but what derailleur will wrap that much chain? I am running a 42 32 20 and a 12-36 (6.3) that maxes the widest range 9 speed rear D I could find.
I love the idea of the industry marketing two 1X’s up front😂
Haha. What to call it? 2x1X? 1+1? 3-1?
My left lever integrated dropper post is quite happy in 1x and never felt the need for more range.
1x Lives!
my first 2X was a 10-speed--my current 1X is 10-speed--works
Hi Russ, another great video. For my UK Genesis Vagabond, I run a 38-24 chainring with a Deore M6000 Low Clamp, side-swing front mech with a microshift friction bar-end shifter. It has full cable housing that doesn't require stops or pulleys and mine is just cable tied in place. The other beauty of it is that it has very little rear projection behind the seat tube, so it means I can fit 2.1 rubber and full mudguards with room to spare. Just done a 7 day tour of Brittany, Northern France and it worked flawlessly and I was able to spin up all of the hills!!
Front derailleurs rock. Love my 3by trek hifi, and dont care if the bike shop keeps hinting i need to upgrade.
3x and vbrakes are amazing. Idc what anyone says
I love front derailleurs. All my bikes have 'em. I run 3x7s (42/34/24 paired with a 7-speed 13-34, friction, of course!) on a couple bikes; great combo for the hilly Arizona single-tracks.
Uptick ☑️ for a great gear range 😁
@@themoodyteam I've found the perfect combination for the hills in my area. Lately, I've been shifting with just the chainrings to roll my favorite trails, including parts of the Arizona trail; essentially reduced to a 3 gear drivetrain! 🙂
@@SolarizeYourLife well that’s the ‘inefficiency’ of the system. However, if it works, it works 😊
Most importantly Vaquero is out there riding
@@themoodyteam That's right. Someone (@SolarizeYourLife) seems to think 'efficiency' is all there is to riding a bike. Besides, with a 7-speed cassette, one can actually have a choice of just sticking to one chainring w/out great fear of extreme cross-chaining. Also, I don't sweat over grams. 🙂
@@SolarizeYourLife As I have said: I don't care about overlaps/redundancies. In fact, I find it reassuring. I can go on a particular gear ratio with a particular combination or other. If you didn't imply your were concerned about efficiency, what was your point? To show your deep knowledge of engineering principles? What?
Only thing I'd add to this video is that, while it's true that road bikes have lost low gears, mountain bikes have lost HIGH GEARS. Most MTBs rocking a 30-50 or 32-50 low gear are easily in the ballpark of alltime low gears (e.g., 22-36 w/26" tires was among the lowest gears on MTBs 15 years ago), but now they're spinning out at around 20mph, for better or worse.
I totally agree with the 2 by and 3 by they give you so much extra that people don't seem to see , love the two bikes you've shown , they are more my style of bike , keep up the videos their always great to see 👍
Love it. On my Surly LHT I have a down tube friction shifter for the front triple and a Ultegra 9 spd brifter for the back. I love the friction on the front, no rubbing ever!!!!!!!
People cant understand than a 3x on friction is no hassle, way to easy to shift and adjust. That being said I prefer 2x, 40/24 is perfect to me, I could get more range with 44/32/22.
Another benefit of using friction shift on the front is that you don't have to worry about whether the indexing between shifter and derailleur are compatible. I went back to friction shifting when I started using road shifters with mountain bike mechs and I haven't gone back. Simple shifting and I can easily trim the mech so it doesn't foul the chain. Nice video, I never went down the 1X rabbit hole.
Hey there! I'm curious, is there any mechanism in friction shifter that stops it from overshifting until the chain falls off? Or are those limiter screws on derailleurs enough to stop it?
@@dimass.a1507 Friction shifters have a limited range of movement, but you still set the limit screws on the derailleurs so they can't overshift. The short cable run and minimal bends with downtube shifters give a very precise shift.
@@ronmatthews1738 thanks a lot! I might try them out later courtesy of getting sick of indexing my brifter every few days before they misalign and i gotta go down 2 + up 1 instead of just down 1 everytime.
@@dimass.a1507 It's worth trying. Give yourself a while to get used to the change. Who knows, you just might like it.
Turning 1x bikes into 2x bikes is the 21st century version of a klunker and I'm here for it.
Love it. 2x for life.
Those plastic cable guides that go under the bottom bracket shell - I just double stick tape them on and the cable pressure keeps them in place. Done it to a vintage carbon Look road bike and 2 90s MTBs.
(Most shops should have the double cable guides sitting around)
Great tip!
I really appreciate all your videos Russ. Hope you two are doing well.
I live in a very hilly town here in Brazil and I will never own an urban bike without 3x in the front. That's it, non negotiable. I also have 11-40 in the back. For road bike 2x is alright. 1x can disappear off the face of the earth for all care.
It is simple. They want us to spend more money on stuff that will change and change and change. You are doing a great job bro and I run a 3 x 10 XTR on my full squish and it works the charm. I can climb a wall then latter pedal at 40 mph on the dh! - M
Which bike brand and model?
Great content, Russ! Can you follow up with a demonstration of how you add the chain ring to the front crank. I'm my own mechanic for most things, but I rarely get into modifications or maintenance on my crank set. I suspect there are many others like me.
tip for drop bar: on old campy groupsets the front shifter isn't indexed. add, that you can do a shimergo build allowing you to use wide range mtb cassettes and voilá... 2x9 massive range climbs everything monster machine. just don't do what i did the first time around and overdo the difference in chain ring size, ending up with barely any overlap, which gets annoying pretty quick.
I have to say the idea of putting friction shifting up front with a modern maybe even electronic drive train in the back is very interesting - it opens many possibilities. and its not hard to learn cause the chain is either up or down and if you size the changerings right you dont even need to shift the front that often and can use the bike as 1x most of the time with the bailout small ring as an inexpensive option. i like it.
1. The MicroShift thumbies and bar end shifters are sold as pairs. The right can be 9-10-11 speed index depending on model AND can be converted to friction. Although i prefer the RD in index.
The left hand FD shifter is sold as working either 2x or 3x.. friction only. it will work both effortlessly.
2 if you have a friend with a lathe, one off clamps etc inc offset versions are relatively easy and affordable to make. Or just visit your nearest machine shop in town.
3. Friction is the only way to shift a FD. Index front is garbage, especially for 3x.
4. Grest video!
this IS the philosophy!!! Love the channel love the bikes!! We all gotta be freaks in the streets/trails
You’re making great points on why to go 2x, but I’ll never go back. 1x for life ☝🏽
Doing unusual things with bikes is fun! That’s one of the many reasons I like them. Who cares what others think? I have a 2x on an old Stumpjumper… a 2x1! A regular gear for flats and a low gear for hills. It’s a blast!
Just recently upgraded (or downgraded, depends how you come at it) the drivetrsin on my Marin four corners. It came with 3x9 shimano sora (50/39/30 x 11-36) , which was great. Especially when it was my first ever drop bar bike, so I had all that wide gear range for me to find what worked the best for me.
And after 3 years and 16 000 km's, the bike has now 2x11 shimano grx drivetrain, with an awesome "save the front derailleur" sticker on the seat tube. 😄
Also a funny note, that when I was comparing on different gravel bikes back in 2020, most of them came with 50/34 road cranksets and had very few mounting points. Not suitable for my needs at all. So thanks Russ for advocating on the low gears and front derailleurs!
Too funny. I was on triples all my life till I discovered 1x three years ago. Im 66 and love Advent X 10 speed. Plenty of range with 34 on my gravel bike and 30 on my MTB. 11-48 , if I drop below 5 kph on the steeps then I'm faster pushing.
If you were in the neighborhood, I would ask to try that out. But my money does not allow the comparison.
The bike industry moved away from multiple rings because it cut production costs by eliminating components from a groupset (remember thirty years ago, a complete group included the hubs, headset, pedals and seatpost along with the brakeset/drivetrain bits) AND the majority of riders never used all the gears they had available anyway. Most people don't live or ride near mountain ranges with great elevation changes over the course of a day where they'd need all that gear range.
I totally agree with everything you've said here. I presently have 3 bikes, an 87 bianchi 2x7, a 2013 kona sutra 3x9 and a 90's mountain bike 3x7 that I've put drop bars with tektro rl 340 brakes. Living in the northern Appalachian mountains in Quebec I do a lot of climbing, (and descending) and can always find the right gear especially when loaded for touring. I have a bike for all types of roads and trails and have still spent way less than a new 1x dedicated "gravel" bike.
Have been running a 3by Shimano Tiagra 4703 groupset (50-34-30) on my road bike for 4.5 years (about 50/50 pavement and gravel).
Loving it.
Am contemplating going ghetto-quintuple (a-la René Herse) using half of a cassette instead of chainrings in the front with a wide q-factor gravel shaft - for better chainline, bigger cogs in the back and shits'n'giggles, of course:)
1x has helped facilitate modern mountain bike geometry but is not necessary for most drop-bar bikes other than allowing for fatter meats and tighter chainstays. As an mtb'er I insisted on 1x for my first gravel bike (simplicity/coolness) but as the years and miles have passed I have seen the need for a much wider gear range on that bike. Thanks for the great video.
Running 1 chain ring is like a trip to the past, it's funny how ideas go around and around, I suppose 1x is new to those who haven't been cycling for very long, but it's what we had before we upgraded to a double or triple setup. Good video though, might save someone's knees.
Very helpful. I love your geeky small part videos. Right up my alley anyway. Thank you Russ!!
While others have videos showing how to get less range, for more money, he has this one. Thank you, from the bottom of my cheap heart. I respect bikers who can do tricks you can't simply buy easily.
A seat tube shifter? Or, shifting by the bottom of your pants?
It will be interesting to see future TH-cam tutorials on how to convert a 1x to a 3x. When that happens, I'll already be ahead of the curve.
This is fun - I just rode my 1x sram eTap 12 speed down the west coast with zero issues.. a 1x system to me pushes you to become a better stronger cyclist .. With a 40t front I only lose contact down the steeps over 40 mph which is fine for me i just tuck and rip it -- I can’t fathom why anyone who is seriously out there cycling would want bar shifters -- With Sram you can literally put wireless blips anywhere to change gears - to me this makes mechanical shifting obsolete my shifters are always were i need them and when you’re in traffic or bombing down a mountain the last thing you want is take your hands off the bars to shift -
My oddball mountain bike, I bought a year ago, uses triple front gears. I have plenty of gears for high or low.
Why odd? Cheap mtb's still get 3 cogs infront - cuz most people who buy mountainbikes, still use them as an all purpouse bike, not for sport. The real oddballs, are the people who spend thousands to get less gears and a carbon frame on a MTB - where weight matters the least.
I run 9 speed 22/36 chain rings on my bikes with a 11/36 on back. This is a smaller set of gears than the 42,46, or 50, better shifting. Lots of range and no problems as I maintain my drive train regularly!
I bet you can climb trees with your lowest gears!
Always wanted to try 1x but I realized that my rides are more road and touring oriented so I cannot leave my 2x and 3x. If I ever want to try giving dh a try, it'll definitely be a 1x.
walked into a 1X with 10-speed in the back--best decision.
These days it's more a matter of cadence sensitivity and budget than range.
Thank you, Im so glad to have found and stuck with your channel.
Round and round we go !
You can just use a short section of outer cable to run under the bottom bracket . It works fine .
That doesn’t make sense. This a is a continuous housing bike.
@@PathLessPedaledTV , sorry I was meaning as an alternative to a cable stop clamp or a plastic under bb guide you can run under the bb with the outer cable . Many years ago when the outer cable stop was no longer put on front derailleurs but older frames had a stop braised on the bottom of the down tube the solution was to run a section of outer cable from the stop on the frame under the bb . It performs exactly the same as a plastic under bb guide .
On a continuous housing frame just end the outer cable after it's run under the bb . The only proviso is the cable needs to have very little slack in it at it's slackest .
That front derailleur mount is so good in silver. Classy looking bike.
Yes! The 1X has its place, but most bikes are not that place. If you want to go far and/or travel with stuff, 2x if new. And yes , that 3X Deore LX is the Toyota Corolla/Honda Civic of drivetrains, leave it there.
I have an early 90's mtb with a period correct 3x7 drivetrain, the range is horrible, 28x28 easiest gear. While I have fun on that bike for what it is, it'll never come nowhere near close to the performance of a modern Shimano 1x12, getting rid of the front mech is single handedly the very best thing the bike industry has done and the only good thing SRAM has ever done.
Why not swap out chainrings and cassette? All those parts are really affordable to buy new still, and should just work with all the old parts.
I can’t understand why a pro racing cyclist would be happy with a single chainring. I even heard an ex AquaBlue rider state that it cost the team victories. From my experience racing you needed close ratios I.e. a straight through block to optimise your cadence. Years after I packed up serious racing I rode a club 3 up and was just about finished with a mile to go and couldn’t hold onto a wheel because of the 2 tooth gap on my block. I’d call it the Goldilocks’ effect because I’m sure I could have coped with the right gear. I even had a close ratio block on my touring bike (mostly camping) when I was still pretty fit and covering large distances. My 6 speed block would be something like 15,16,17,18,21,24 or maybe 16 to 26, it’s a long time ago now. It meant my top speed pedalling was only about 30 mph but I preferred having a close range for the majority of the time.
I'm currently running 4 main bikes. In order of "go to itness" : 1986 Miyata 1000 with 3X , 44/32/ 22 , 152mm cranks and a 7 speed and bar end shifters., 617% gear range. 2) 1982 Apollo with 2X, 48/34, downtube shifters, 8speed . 3) 2016 Cannondale Synapse, 2X , 50/34, 10 speed, Tiagra,
4) 1986 Rocky Mountain Hammer, 2X, 48/34, 7 speed , Microshift brifters.
All in all , I don't know why I haven't converted everything to Friction.
I like your idea of friction in the front and indexed in the rear.
Only way to go !
I went friction in the rear on my 1x after I was exhausted adjusting cable pull for index. Never looking back. It’s super simple. Gear spacing is so tight nowadays, the chain never falls between gears. Just gotta listen to your drivetrain so it lands smoothly. Also there’s nothing like dumping the cassette with my pinky when creating a massive hill.
I’d love to see a video on how the 1x came to be. All of the bikes in my household are 20+ years old and all 3x. Never followed the bike industry until I started watching Russ’s videos
1x with wide range cassette (11-50) makes a lot of sense for mountain biking where there is need to move through gears rapidly, to navigate rapid drops & climbs. 1x eliminate need to shift both front & rear to get right gear.
Can't see that it's needed as much on a road or gravel bike, where the inclines are more consistent.
I ride single track mostly, so converted 3x to 2x by replacing 44t chainring with a bashguard. Added a 11-46t rear cassette. Mostly I use the 32t chainring, as if a 1x
I do get rare use of the 22t chainring, as a granny gear for the steep climbs (particularly when I'm tired)
In addition to the MTB side, 1 by drivetrains make some sense for the high end racing road bikes, where saving grams matters and marginal aerodynamic advantages can be gained from eliminating the front derailleur.
@@peterwillson1355 I'm 72yo, with a damaged leg.
1x also allows for much better chain retention, since 1x chainrings don't need to allow the chain to slide off for shifting.
There are pros and cons to each setup.
I know you're probably not into di2, but there's a few people who have paired 2x gravel cranksets with 11 speed shimano mtb 11-51 cassettes which gives a over a 700% range, and they've gotten it to work well.
You mentioning di2 makes me think of, I've got a Shimano Alfine 11 hub I'm going to lace into 27.5 650b rim and was thinking about going 2x with it in a Surly Ogre frame. It's the manual cable and not the di2, but I was thinking that might be a cool combo. Thanks for mentioning the cassette di2!
Bike hackery and wide range gearing! That’s what I’m here for. Well worth the patreonage
Thank you. I really like seat tube shifters for front. Basically the lower chainring is only for heavy load when going up hill. But its nice to have it there when you need it.
I mean, the alternate bike content and seeing what's possible is super cool. But at the same point, buying a small brand steel frame 1x bike and then turning it into a different bike, running bar end shifters on a gravel bike, etc... I'm super happy with my bog standard 2x GRX and brifters, internal cable routing... it might all be industry conspiracy but it also works pretty well :)
I was riding the Tour de Steamboat gravel hundo last week. That ride has a stupid steep pitch, probably 0.25 miles @ 14%. I have a 2x Canyon Grizl (48x31 front, 11-34 rear) and averaged 290W @ 54 rpm. Brad Bingham (Bingham Built custom bikes) and his wife came by me on a 1x12 rig and they had to be spinning 70 rpm. The range on the rear cassette is absolutely huge. I assume they are lacking on the top end, but that gearing was very adequate for steep uphills.
Why do all bike product managers live in Florida?
You are on to something here Russ 👍
For that bolt on type guide I use silicone RTV to glue it on. Just cleans the matting surfaces real good.
I see a lot of comments here from riders of limited experience (either relatively new, or haven’t done all kinds of riding) or who are young, strong, and have not yet destroyed their knees climbing hills with limited gearing. The ultimate test of a cyclist is the time trial, or the long brevets, or the Tour Divide (take your pick). In all these cases the cyclist matches the gear to the course. Time trialists and brevet riders both want closely spaced gears to maximize efficiency. They are most efficient within a relatively narrow rpm range. Probably 105-115 for a time trialist, maybe 80-95 for a brevet rider. That’s 10 to 16%. Personally I like narrow gear gaps. The time trialist doesn’t need much range. The loaded tourist needs a huge amount of range, but gear spacing and efficiency is always a consideration. I suspect that the gear spacing on a mullet cluster could exceed 20%. That’s why my 71 year old legs prefer a triple for range, and the narrowest cluster the terrain dictates. 12-36 for loaded touring in hills. 13-27 for hilly centuries and club riding. 9 speed. I have run gear calculations for various drive trains using 10-11-12 clusters and I am sticking with 9 speed. Consider your riding application and use Sheldon Brown’s excellent gear calculator to see what the gaps between gears are for various configurations. A crucial range for me are the gears I use the most cruising long distances on relatively flat or slightly rolling terrain. That’s why I love my custom 13-27 (13 14 15 16 17 19 21 24 27). With a triple I can still climb most hills unloaded, and I always have the right gear for cruising conditions.
Lol that cable guide is what all the old school bikes used
I go my gear inches rather than % range. I use 1x and 2x on different bikes. They both have pros and cons, but 2 x has always been my “go to” where I need a bit of versatility and wide range. That being said I run a Deore 11 speed/105/GRX/Wolfftooth 11 speed mullet on my Gorilla Monsoon. Why? It’s got the range for bike packing (11/51 with 32 upfront) effectively MTB gears with 105 shifters. Works great but don’t expect to be fast on the road! For other bikes and where I need a bigger top end I use 2 x. It’s nice to have the choice but 1 x is not a panacea for all gear ills!
I proudly display my "Save the Front Derailleur" sticker on the WeeHoo kid trailer I tow with my 2x9 Kona Rove. There's no way I could tow a kid trailer on the hills I do with a 1x.
Who needs gear range when you can already choose between peddling in or out of the saddle, or even walking with your bicycle?
No gears, no headache. Singlespeed lives lol
I have 3*8 gears (22-36-44 * 11 - 34) with shimano xt8000 rear derailleur and 8 speed shifters: shimano st-ef51 (for cable brakes), shimano deore-lx (for hydraulic brakes), campagnolo mirage shifter (9 speed with 8 speed cassette, for cable brakes). All works, but it should not... The only trick I have used is reverse cable placement on rear derailleur to compensate pull ratio.
Front delis rule! My Giant has a range of 18"-96" gear inches. Climb every mountain ✊
I love my triple chainring MTN bike!
great video. thanks for sharing info about the cable guide(I'm now using tape for the 3rd cable). I have learned that a new world opens up to you when you have easy climbing gears with smaller jumps. We should bust gear myths like tire myths. Downhill gearing? I'm going downhill on a bike. I don't actually have to pedal at all. ;)
Yip donwhill gering is stupid, except maybe when you are with a road bike group, in which case they will leave you miles behind. That being said rodies lack any uphill gears, so you catch up soner rater than later.
I recently built a classic 2x friction shifting rando bike and immediately remembered why 1x and indexing became so popular! I’d 1x the rando bike but a giant cassette looks too weird on a vintage frameset. Thanks for the great content! 1x for life!
Thanks for posting this. I don’t get all the 1X’s out there. I passed up several bikes because they were only offered in a 1X. Another reason I love my three CO-Motions. 2X11 wide touring gears. I live in the PNW, I want and need gears!
Interested in why you think the front derailleur is “flawed”? They are several times more reliable than any rear derailleur… super simple system, reliable shifting, especially on friction shifting
Flawed in that people expect it to work perfectly when indexed.
I’m fighting my deep internal desires to like all this weird bike stuff and just ride a carbon 1x setup and I am loosing as I find steel and shifters in weird places so damn fascinating😂
100%! With modern (9+ speed) cassettes and chainsets, a 2x has better range and are smoother pedaling than the 80s and 90s 3x6/7 combos I've owned, with 1 exception (and that cost almost a full paycheck back in '86 just for the 8x 11-32 custom freewheel and 3x 52/42/28 crankset and axle).
As for the below bottom bracket cable guide, most of the not bottom of the line steel frames have that hole threaded. If not, it is super easy to thread it or use a short self-tapping metal screw. I've done both and haven't managed to rip one off yet. (It is super handy to have even a small Harbor Freight, aka cheap/junky, tap & die set for the occasional cleaning out mount points and rescuing munged threads)
Another way to add a cable stop, if you have access to vintage/old biike parts, is the downtube shifter mount clamp on band + downtube shifter mounted cable stop with barrel adjuster. There are some pretty cool ones from the 70s and early 80s, and those polished aluminum Dura-Ace downtube cable stops from the mid 90s are gorgeous IMO.
Yes we need more pro 2 x support.
I've been impressed with the side pull FDs from shimano.
Been riding for a long time, and have ridin' everything, As I appreciate Russ's passion for "ancient bike tech", the 1X and index shifting is not dead, not even close --- :)
Side note, Jumbo Visma road cycling team has been using a 1x setup this year for some stages. The funny thing is Primoz Roglic dropped a chain on a steep uphill TT stage using a 1x. He still won, but drama. I imagine you will see them use it in the TDF.
This 1x drivetrain walks into a bar. Bartender asks, "What will it be?" 1x says, "Give me a double"
I still have a 3x on my old 520 that I ride everywhere. If I’m going to go 1x i’ll just ride my single speed and really put in the work 😅
I'm converting my early production Stumpjumper 29er for bikepacking and I love my 3x10. When I finally get a new bike it will probably be 1x and I'll probably like it just fine, but I for now I got gears for days.
Someday they come out with 3X in the front for serious touring in hills and cross country mountain bikes.