I own a number of guitars from both brands. As a designer I also understand what its like to have your designs stolen or copied. I hope things settle down for both companies. I can say though... the Jericho designs that are their own are incredible. Build quality is awesome.
But what Gibson did is ilegel that is not how you handle stolen copyright/patants... Like at all look at Nintendo for exemples of how to do it legeklly and you'll see becuaase you have nijias does not mean you can use them like nijias. Edit : If Gibson did it ofcorse not some random troll.
This is a much better evaluation than Fluff's who just took Gibson's side. I want to suggest at the outset that the situation hasn't developed enough to give us enough information to form any reliable conclusions. But I'm of the same opinion as Kyle, I like Gibson's guitars, I've had two and really don't want to jump on the hate-wagon, but the way they are carrying on really puts me off. Also, didn't they say in that "Play Authentic" video that they weren't going after the smaller builders?? Also what constitutes a body shape altered enough to be ok and how do they gauge it?? There are any amount of companies out there are making derivatives of Les Pauls, Vs, SGs, Firebirds etc, and it's clear where the inspiration came from, and the bullying stance it's taking makes me feel that they want to be the sole maker of these shapes. The thought of a world where there are no ESP eclipses or King Vs really saddens me. Here's an idea Gibson; why don't you stop sulking in the corner and compete with some dignity. Why don't you make a pointy V of your own, make it black with an ebony fretboard, give the neck a god damn SATIN finish and stick in some honest to goodness EMGs AND (heaven forbid) make it accessibly priced - I would 100% buy that (still waiting for a Gothic V to come up at a good price)!!! Get out there and try to eat Jackson's and ESP's lunch instead of pitching a fit, taking the ball away and storming off home!! Make an accessibly priced, highly functional line that caters for the working joe instead of the lawyers and cut off a bigger slice of the market that way. It's not as if Gibson can't do it, it's just that they won't.
Everyone loves jumping on the Gibson hate train. Reminds me of Metallica v Napster. The statement from Jericho seems unlikely, to me. Fluffs take on the whole thing hit the nail on the head, IMO.
Man. Somebody else that was old enough to remember the Napster/Metallica debacle Haha I still don’t quite understand why so many companies copy Gibson. Isn’t the Les Paul almost 100 years old? Evolve already,make your own.
How does one company “take down” websites of another? Literally how is that even possible? Seems like only a court order or law enforcement agency would be “the ones” who would even be able to make that happen.
Alot of smaller companies are forced to just close down with threats of lawsuits from a large company, thats what the issue is with these huge companies. They bully the little guys who can't afford to defend themselves in the endless lawsuits. So they just shut down and start something else.
My point is this vid, and fluffiest earlier, seems like this David guy woke up on morning and his websites were gone. I’m pretty sure that has to be done by a federal agency or officer of the court. Gibson can’t just delete other companies websites. And I’m all for Gibson protecting its intellectual property. But what is being said, just can’t be.
The only thing that initially comes to mind is that Gibson may use the same company that hosts Jericho’s website. As such they, the hosting service would may receive a percentage of those Gibson sales in the form of transactions fees. As well they would receive money from Gibson for the website. The key point of this might be relative in that upon a time hosting services essentially changed for bandwidth for high traffic and data intensive website. It might be possible that Gibson’s attorneys made a convincing argument to the hosting service to convey that Gibson’s intellectual property had been utilized by Jericho guitars and that if they, the hosting company, did not “take down” the Jericho website that they, Gibson, would be motivated to relocate their website, as well as all the transaction and website fees, to a rival hosting company and most likely pursue the website hosting company in a lawsuit for any damages resulting for the loss of the intellectual property. If this were the case the hosting service may have believed that losing the Jericho account and revenue was the better option for them. But IDK… just a guess.
That would be a conflict of interest at best. Gibsons lawyers cannot be that simple minded. Let’s use the hypothetical example of ford taking down Toyotas websites because they used a steering wheel in their cars. The reason doesn’t even matter. Even if this guitar company was making Gibson Les Paul knockoffs using Gibsons name, exact copies of type, with Les’ Signature on the headstock. That would be a clear cut court case for copyright infringement, that still doesn’t give Gibson the right to delete the other companies websites. A court could definitely seize the sites. But Gibson however, could not. And would be giving this other company free money, plus court costs had it done so. Even if the hosts of the web server joined in with Gibson. There is definitely more to this than what is being said.
I also have been looking over Jericho guitars for a few years... But with that said, Jericho did make exact copies of the Explorer Supernova and the Les Paul classic 6 and silver burst, so I was actually surprised nothing had happened before. I doubt Gibson did not send ANY warning before hand. Like they did with Dean Guitars and others. So unless Jericho never responded and avoided any letters, then yeah... Gibson took legal action and did what they did.
I believe it could either be A: them ignoring the contact and emails or letters, forcing Gibson to take legal action and take down the sites. Or B: It’s a marketing stunt to get people to pay attention to their brand. Which is wrong on many levels, not including the fact that making that kind of public accusation is considered Slander and is Illegal. Sounds like it’s a bunch of bull to me. And if a brand copies the intellectual property of another maker, that can be sued over. Maybe brands shouldn’t try to copy. That’s just life.
Great video. In addition to everything you mentioned the biggest issue I have with what apparently happened according to what Jericho have stated is that a webhost shutdown a companies websites without proper legal proceedings on request by Gibson. If that is truly what happened I can only assume it's straight to the naughty corner for both the webhost and Gibson. Time will tell.
To correct my statement. According to another TH-camrs commentary on this case. If a US company's website is proven to be selling something that breaches the copyright of another company the ISP is actually obliged to shutdown the website down with out cease and decist notice. Interesting. I learned something new today. These laws vary country to country also.
@@ScreaminT81 Most of them out there are EX or LP ''style'', they're different but inspired by. Jericho was literally ripping gibson shapes and design. Which is not the same as other brands who have a spin on a shape.
To be fair at least for the exp shape it's an entirely different construction (neck through), materials, it's larger, has a belly cut, different scale length, fretboard radius, nut width, headstock... you name it. It's very close aesthetically but it's definitely not a blatant ripoff
Seems like Gibson is the only one doing this over the last few years. Then again I guess we all knew this was coming with the Agnesi video and frankly it’s kinda sad seeing as they really should have been smarter about protecting their trademarks etc
@@1Motorbreath1 see, from a distance the Exp looks exactly like a Gibson explorer. Those differences are not readily apparent. The LP at least has a wildly different headstock.
I think Jericho is not being forthcoming with information about Gibson and possibly a lawsuit. Also yes Gibson is a big company but at least those 2 designs are theirs to protect.
14:05 what is "just enough" though? Gibson won the lawsuit against PRS (even citing the 4 knob layout) which later turned out to be the exact opposite of Gibsons shape and was thrown out.
I totally agree on the cease and desist piece. They would have sent something. Then, I can also totally see them sending one based on the screen grabs I am now seeing of Jericho's Explorer and LP models. Jericho didn't even try to alter the design.
I pretty sure the body shape cannot be copyrighted but the headstock can. That’s why you see 100’s of other Les Paul and Strat copies all over the place
I'm not an attorney but I believe it would take a court order, cease and desist, or something equivalent to intervene in a companies practices. And...that would be laid out in a very specific manor. Gibson may have "alleged' quality issues but their guitars are second to none. IMO...no other brand's name can rival the authority and clout that comes with the Gibson badge. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon about their electrics but has anyone considered looking at their acoustics? I believe Gibson has the number one spot for high end acoustic guitar sales. Gibson "is" a world class leader. People can pick the company apart to the end of the day but......Gibson.....is a rock.
Thanks for covering this and providing an alternate point of view. I think it would be really easy just to take one side here so it's good to encourage deeper thought
Jericho’s website is still up, (I checked early This morning, Sun 15 Jan 23), but the Les Paul and Explorers have been removed. You can buy off their website.
I bought 2 gibson les paul's in 2017 high performance. Everyone hated on them but they were absolutely perfect. Now bought an Adam Jones standard and it is great, on little bit of glue on the fretboard but not a big deal.
Honestly, I’m surprised they seem so caught off guard by it. They knew what they were doing and they knew it wasn’t okay, so not sure wtf he was expecting to happen here… Gibson has *never* looked the other way. Ever.
15:54 they can if a judge finds corse to do so like hwhat Nintedno did to a Switch modding company a few years back... Which you do have a point this could have been a hacker/troll not Gibson but I don't think they can legelly shut down a site just because the site's owner did not read an email... They would have needed to take them to court first.
Not that I would put it passed Gibson, but something doesn't seem right. Jericho Guitars is highly likely leaving out some information. First, I don't believe that they didn't send a cease and desist. Two, what does he mean Gibson shut him down? Did they hire a hacker, or did the courts shut him down? There's a big difference. Also, I can see why they shut everything down because they are conducting an investigation, and part of that investigation is figuring what the damages are. If Jericho has access to any part of the business, then he can start destroying evidence to reduce damages.
I agree man. Not taking sides either way as I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. But having dealt with legal proceedings, there’s letters and notifications and many steps leading up to actual action. Find it VERY hard to believe Gibson just shut their whole site down without some communication and legal proceedings beforehand. And honestly I can understand if a company doesn’t want their designs that they worked hard to come up with being copied to make someone else profits. Plenty of companies like Eastman and ESP make amazing Gibson inspired instruments with their own variation in design that sell well. No reason a company needs to copy the Gibson shapes exactly. Also, the Gibson hating is getting old AF. They absolutely have their faults but they still make some amazing guitars. If anyone is unhappy about their price or product, just move along and buy something else…there’s enough alternatives to make everyone happy. And last I checked you can still find a great playing USA made Les Paul tribute for $1300 and under $1K used. That’s the same price or less than many eastern made ESPs and Made in Mexico Fenders.
Don't want to get sued? Be original, or get ready to explain and defend yourself in court. Like yourself, Kyle, i hate the company, but love and buy the guitars. All the QC talk seems like BS to me. All Gibsons I've owned(probably 10-12 in the past few years, all 2008 and newer) have been flawless. I hate to say it, but it seems like jealousy among people who can't afford them.
@pattyg5502 Yeah, that's fair. I meant that specifically about the ones who claim Gibson is nothing but QC issues, and Harley Benton, Epiphone, etc, are better. PRS are excellent too
@@RByrne Ahh, I see. I agree with you. Saying a brand like Harley Benton is better than Gibson is complete and utter BS. HB sucks and it's not because they're affordable. Watch KDH's video for more details, but those pickups are microphonic as hell.
@pattyg5502 i saw that, and he isn't the first one to find serious flaws with an HB. I find it hard to believe Thomann when they said they checked all the other ones and had no issues with the pickups. So KDH got the only 2 bad pickups from the stock?
If I was going to spend that much money it would be on a lot of different guitars before a Gibson. They seem like scumbags to me since the play authentic video and the price versus quality
Personally I don't think it's cool that all these other brands rip off Gibson and Fender. For 1, Gibson/Fender made these shapes famous through literal decades of hard work. And 2, it stunts creativity and makes the market bland and we're seeing that now, every looks like a Strat or Les Paul. I think it's hard to see a consumer but once you become the designer of a product that you helped establish and literally hundreds of brands just rip your off, it's downright theft
Utility Patents in the states only last 20 years and design patents only last 15 years. We are way past that. With that said, they cannot make a direct copy of a product because counterfeit law is another area. You have to change a few things atleast to be slightly different. That’s why fender copy companies can change the headstock and a pickguard and it will fly in court and fender would loose.
@synonyx dude, I'm not talking abt legality I'm just saying ethically and creativity-wise. The fact that every guitar nowadays looks the same bc Schecter, ESP, Ibanez, and Jackson just copy off Gibson and Fender is sad. I mean it's legit the same as copying someone's homework and just changing a few things. They copy the explorer, flying V too, like how much more blatant can it get. Besides Ibanez with the Iceman, none of them are trying. Think abt it, if the patent laws were actually stronger, imagine how much more creative these companies would have to be
Clever marketing ploy to get attention (done), or going out in flames (TBD)? Seems they practically dared Gibson to take action. Jericho shouldn't be surprised. In fact, they should have seen this coming. Perhaps they did and are welcoming the attention. However, accusing Gibson with no evidence ... well, good luck with that. Libel/Slander can be a lot of fun to deal with.
There was prior contact between the two companies, Gibson attorney's most likely warned Jericho that this would be the next step. Sounds like Gibson is serious about ending the fraud.
I still don't understand why smaller companies aren't citing previous case law in defending themselves. FMIC got their ass handed to them for doing this same thing; picking on small companies that had similar shapes. It was ruled something to the effect of "This shape has been around for so long that it's generally considered a "generic electric guitar."
I have purchased two new Gibson in the last year. Adam jones standard. Perfect no issues with it. I have a Dave V green. The green has some tooling marks and a few finish issues. But I love both and I am Prs fan boy. So for me to like both did shock me. I just don’t like Gibson bullying.
I think Heritage gets a pass because as you said, the pickguard and headstock are different. Also, the bottom horn is slightly shorter, and it probably doesn't hurt that they sort of have the Gibson DNA by way of how the company originally came to be.
I totally get both sides reasoning.I just hope Jericho can continue on in the future with their own designs.Cause from what I've heard is that the build quality is excellent.🤘😎👍
I hate bullies ... and that's what Gibson are these days, Jericho's story true or not ... Gibson guitars ? done, no more ever ... there are so many other brands that are delivering as good guitars for a third of their price at the minimum ...
I really HATE to defend Gibson here but there’s no way they could do this without legal precedent and prior actions. How Jericho could have missed them I have no idea. I don’t like Gibson’s lawsuit happy approach at all, but I do think they have a case with the singlecut and explorer type guitars from Jericho. And why Jericho was doing them is nuts because they have great guitars and style sensibilities, the other models looks great.
My son and I get to actually try a lot of different used Gibson's from Les Paul's to SG's and unfortunately only less than 10 out of maybe the 30 we've tried have had that "Gibson" character, the funny thing is the guitar's that had the most Gibson character was a 1979 Greco Standard EG 700 which my son bought, a Orville Standard, and a PRS Starla. Now with that said we only play the Gibson's on the floor of that shop which are May $2,000 at the most and maybe $1,000 at the cheapest so maybe the $3,000 and up behind the counter sound better but we don't touch those 😂
Totally agree with damn public hate about their guitars, hate it I have and had many guitars from Fender and PRS, still play some of them, some of them are sold, but my 2014 Les Paul Traditional is still have guitar I ever owned
Who knows how many times Gibson has done something like this without us knowing? I LOVE my LP and I tried a lot of killer gibson guitars lately. I dont like the way they handle themselves as a business though. I wanted a Jericho Explorer as it ticked off a lot of check boxes for me and now that's not an option but I cant just go to Gibson and get a Gibson Expolorer as they dont have the same specs as the Jericho. Stainless frets with Gibson? No. Baritone? No... I guess my thing is if Gibson really wants to shutdown a lot of builders give us some better specs and colors. Also there is a guy in Atlanta that can build Gibson shapes but they have approved him.
I have a Jericho guitar. It’s a baritone neck through with a Pegasus and I love it. Don’t care for Gibsons for the reasons everyone says. Too expensive. Too much hype and questionable business practices. I wouldn’t buy a Fender or a Gibson new but that’s just me.
I love Gibson guitars as well. I’m not a fan of giving in to what others think. I don’t know much about Jericho Guitars but from what I saw earlier it looks like they did rip off the Gibson designs.
I love Gibson. I just cant afford to pay $5500 Canadian dollars for a 335 when Epiphone is putting out very very good versions for one fifth the price. It’s sad.
Devil's advocate and strictly JMO...but Gibson wouldn't have to worry about any of this if they kept their quality up. They have produced A LOT of junk in the past decade or more...and still put a 3k+ sticker on it. You (used to) be able to find many Asian made Epi's that smoked many American gibby's for a fraction of the cost. You want exclusivity....? Represent. Don't be surprised at knockoffs. If you're sweating them...if their breaking into your bank...ask yourself why? /not a current gibson or epiphone owner
It blows my mind that some people have this concept in their head that it’s ok to rip someone off as long as they are a “big corporation”. If Gibson stole a design from Jehrico, I’m sure the optics would be completely different. A lot of people talk about Gibson’s “timing” in this. Maybe they didn’t care until their market share was being eaten into. You can view this 2 ways. Gibson bullies smaller builders into shutting down. The other way to view it is Gibson is trying to protect the livelihood of 2800 employees after going bankrupt. To be honest, I don’t know if either of those statements is “wrong”.
This is a show of force by gibson of how powerful they are, I'd be pissed too! It's their design and they weren't simular they were spot on, they have a right to protect their product design.
I in general try to use small builders as often as i can gibson is a large corporation n thats how they act. I wish that gibson would take all that money they spend on lawsuits and give their workers a raise. They may have found its cheeper to attack their site than do the legal thing. They could have just done the equivalent of a copyright claim rather than a lawsuit
Having been served a civil suit letter in the mail (old CC account) they look a lot like junk mail and that’s your only warning of a judgment but this seems unlikely for a case this serious. That being said, seems extreme. Gibson is a very large company as well, and while it seems like only select cases go public they probably send out dozens of C&Ds a year to all kinds of brands. I still think Gibson makes a good guitar but people do like to pile on brands when a case goes public
I have no sympathy for brands like Dean or Jericho making straight Gibson copy guitars. This is no different from the lawsuit eras. Gibson is USA brand manufacturer. They have to pay full price to make whatever they craft here. Dean and Jericho used Gibson designs, have them produced at a 1/4 of the cost, and then sell them in the same market at half the cost to compete with Gibson. It’s disingenuous to say it’s not a knockoff when it’s the guitar companies biggest seller and it does affect Gibson’s sells.
I own both brands with explorers preferably would stick with Jericho more then Gibson as better quality and specs it’s a shame that this happens there are lots of small builders that make similar or copies I look at it as a compliment!
I will never actually turn on Fender or Gibson, *but I will criticize the hell out of them! lol* The influx of seemingly high end, "junk brand" guitars coming in from Asia for $200, sometimes and left and right, is due to the CNC takeover which is dependent primarily on duplicators, CNC mills, and CNC painters. Unskilled laborers can be trained to perform all the human reliant steps granted they do end up with a skill after the fact, *anyone can be trained to do the work.* Gibson uses CNC mills and painters which dramatically cut costs, *but their guitars are now $3,000 and you can literally buy a knock off that's as good for $200!* It won't be out of the box, but it needs very little work and no high-cost mods if you're as experienced and educated as I am, *and I actually hate seeing Gibson shoot itself in the feet over and over again.* The bottom line is if I were actually climbing the entertainment ranks and Gibson wanted to sponsor me, I would hock their $3,000 guitars all day long! lol. *Some of my irreverence views are somewhat reliant on my poverty lol* *Ultimately, IDGAF about how other people spend their money in America, granted if I have to see it, sometimes it does make me sick.*
This is incredibly disappointing news. Jericho guitars are great. I see little correlation between gibson & jericho with exception of the 2 LP style ypu pointed out, so this news is totally out of left field. Thing is, Dean fought (and won) the V fight so I don't see how gibson has a leg to stand on with this. It appears they're just picking on smaller companies they believe don't have the funding to fight their on-staff lawyer team. I've had a couple of baritone guitars in for mods and pickup swaps and they're an absolute joy to play. I prefer epi/gib scale and neck profiles and the feel of a big chunky LP body to beat on. Like ypu, love the guitars, not so much tge company. Given the recent (and not so recent) developments, I'll likely never buy another and more likely pick up a lefty baritone Jericho whenever I can. They're great instruments.
I really hate to do this to the little guy here but I'm being honest. I really think Jericho needs to get a much much better communications team. I ordered one of their great looking guitars earlier this year and my phone calls and emails were completely ignored by them for months. They wouldn't even cancel my preorder i had to dispute the charge. I really hope they get it together..
What i find kinda funny is most of their guitars are telecasters... wait for it.... not a Gibson design! The newest series has hints of Thunderbird vibes, and a little Les Paul, but funny enough I would think PRS would be the one trying to take a law suite in their direction not the overpriced folks in nashville
I completely understand knock off guitars that are literally falsely labeled Gibson but the Les Paul body shape isn't something I think should be worth destroying small guitar luthiers over.
@@robertsole9970 You cannot copyright number of pickups, binding or bridge type/ location. In fact the copyright courts don't even like to allow copyrights for body shape. They do allow copyrights for headstock, names and sometimes even proprietary paint colors. There are guitars that pre date the original Les Paul with a similar body shape. I just think it is ridiculous for a big brand to go after a smaller brand over a single cut body when everyone and their mother makes a LP style single cut. Gibson could have made a compromise with the guy by giving him the chance to slightly change the shape of the body.
@@shredenvain7 I’d like to read the actual court filing. Until I see that and what it’s specifically says, all these opinion videos are just that. So I’m going to go find it and read it. There should be public documents filed on this in public domain. Off I go.
Rules are rules. Follow the copyright and trademark rules or risk the consequences. and maybe Jericho should’ve kept their business data and kids’ gymnastics schedules stored locally and not on the cloud. Not Gibson’s fault Jericho’s data was vulnerable.
Reverb bounces between 8000 and 13000 Gibson Les Paul guitars for sale at any point in time. Once the boomers start dumping their collections they're going to crash that used Gibson market exactly like they did when they bankrupted Harley Davidson.
Design patent laws should be stronger, the fact that every metal guitar looks a super strat with a Floyd Rose, stainless frets, etc is sad. There's no creativity in the market when u can openly copy off more successful brands
I own a number of guitars from both brands. As a designer I also understand what its like to have your designs stolen or copied. I hope things settle down for both companies. I can say though... the Jericho designs that are their own are incredible. Build quality is awesome.
I mean it's a single cut based off a classic Spanish guitar.
But what Gibson did is ilegel that is not how you handle stolen copyright/patants... Like at all look at Nintendo for exemples of how to do it legeklly and you'll see becuaase you have nijias does not mean you can use them like nijias. Edit : If Gibson did it ofcorse not some random troll.
This is a much better evaluation than Fluff's who just took Gibson's side. I want to suggest at the outset that the situation hasn't developed enough to give us enough information to form any reliable conclusions. But I'm of the same opinion as Kyle, I like Gibson's guitars, I've had two and really don't want to jump on the hate-wagon, but the way they are carrying on really puts me off. Also, didn't they say in that "Play Authentic" video that they weren't going after the smaller builders?? Also what constitutes a body shape altered enough to be ok and how do they gauge it?? There are any amount of companies out there are making derivatives of Les Pauls, Vs, SGs, Firebirds etc, and it's clear where the inspiration came from, and the bullying stance it's taking makes me feel that they want to be the sole maker of these shapes. The thought of a world where there are no ESP eclipses or King Vs really saddens me.
Here's an idea Gibson; why don't you stop sulking in the corner and compete with some dignity. Why don't you make a pointy V of your own, make it black with an ebony fretboard, give the neck a god damn SATIN finish and stick in some honest to goodness EMGs AND (heaven forbid) make it accessibly priced - I would 100% buy that (still waiting for a Gothic V to come up at a good price)!!! Get out there and try to eat Jackson's and ESP's lunch instead of pitching a fit, taking the ball away and storming off home!! Make an accessibly priced, highly functional line that caters for the working joe instead of the lawyers and cut off a bigger slice of the market that way. It's not as if Gibson can't do it, it's just that they won't.
Everyone loves jumping on the Gibson hate train. Reminds me of Metallica v Napster.
The statement from Jericho seems unlikely, to me. Fluffs take on the whole thing hit the nail on the head, IMO.
Man. Somebody else that was old enough to remember the Napster/Metallica debacle Haha
I still don’t quite understand why so many companies copy Gibson. Isn’t the Les Paul almost 100 years old? Evolve already,make your own.
How does one company “take down” websites of another? Literally how is that even possible? Seems like only a court order or law enforcement agency would be “the ones” who would even be able to make that happen.
Alot of smaller companies are forced to just close down with threats of lawsuits from a large company, thats what the issue is with these huge companies. They bully the little guys who can't afford to defend themselves in the endless lawsuits. So they just shut down and start something else.
I was thinking the same exact thing.
My point is this vid, and fluffiest earlier, seems like this David guy woke up on morning and his websites were gone. I’m pretty sure that has to be done by a federal agency or officer of the court. Gibson can’t just delete other companies websites. And I’m all for Gibson protecting its intellectual property. But what is being said, just can’t be.
The only thing that initially comes to mind is that Gibson may use the same company that hosts Jericho’s website. As such they, the hosting service would may receive a percentage of those Gibson sales in the form of transactions fees. As well they would receive money from Gibson for the website. The key point of this might be relative in that upon a time hosting services essentially changed for bandwidth for high traffic and data intensive website. It might be possible that Gibson’s attorneys made a convincing argument to the hosting service to convey that Gibson’s intellectual property had been utilized by Jericho guitars and that if they, the hosting company, did not “take down” the Jericho website that they, Gibson, would be motivated to relocate their website, as well as all the transaction and website fees, to a rival hosting company and most likely pursue the website hosting company in a lawsuit for any damages resulting for the loss of the intellectual property. If this were the case the hosting service may have believed that losing the Jericho account and revenue was the better option for them. But IDK… just a guess.
That would be a conflict of interest at best. Gibsons lawyers cannot be that simple minded. Let’s use the hypothetical example of ford taking down Toyotas websites because they used a steering wheel in their cars. The reason doesn’t even matter. Even if this guitar company was making Gibson Les Paul knockoffs using Gibsons name, exact copies of type, with Les’ Signature on the headstock. That would be a clear cut court case for copyright infringement, that still doesn’t give Gibson the right to delete the other companies websites. A court could definitely seize the sites. But Gibson however, could not. And would be giving this other company free money, plus court costs had it done so. Even if the hosts of the web server joined in with Gibson. There is definitely more to this than what is being said.
I also have been looking over Jericho guitars for a few years... But with that said, Jericho did make exact copies of the Explorer Supernova and the Les Paul classic 6 and silver burst, so I was actually surprised nothing had happened before. I doubt Gibson did not send ANY warning before hand. Like they did with Dean Guitars and others. So unless Jericho never responded and avoided any letters, then yeah... Gibson took legal action and did what they did.
they copied Gibson. its trademarked.. what's hard to understand.... happened in the 70s with Ibanez Lawsuits. nothing new.
I believe it could either be A: them ignoring the contact and emails or letters, forcing Gibson to take legal action and take down the sites.
Or B:
It’s a marketing stunt to get people to pay attention to their brand. Which is wrong on many levels, not including the fact that making that kind of public accusation is considered Slander and is Illegal.
Sounds like it’s a bunch of bull to me.
And if a brand copies the intellectual property of another maker, that can be sued over. Maybe brands shouldn’t try to copy. That’s just life.
In regards to B... I had never heard of Jericho guitars until now
Great video. In addition to everything you mentioned the biggest issue I have with what apparently happened according to what Jericho have stated is that a webhost shutdown a companies websites without proper legal proceedings on request by Gibson. If that is truly what happened I can only assume it's straight to the naughty corner for both the webhost and Gibson. Time will tell.
To correct my statement. According to another TH-camrs commentary on this case. If a US company's website is proven to be selling something that breaches the copyright of another company the ISP is actually obliged to shutdown the website down with out cease and decist notice. Interesting. I learned something new today. These laws vary country to country also.
Jericho clearly was doing a blatant rip off and playing with fire here. Fluff had a great take on it.
Soooo what about every other manufacturer who uses those shapes?
@@ScreaminT81 Most of them out there are EX or LP ''style'', they're different but inspired by.
Jericho was literally ripping gibson shapes and design. Which is not the same as other brands who have a spin on a shape.
To be fair at least for the exp shape it's an entirely different construction (neck through), materials, it's larger, has a belly cut, different scale length, fretboard radius, nut width, headstock... you name it. It's very close aesthetically but it's definitely not a blatant ripoff
Seems like Gibson is the only one doing this over the last few years. Then again I guess we all knew this was coming with the Agnesi video and frankly it’s kinda sad seeing as they really should have been smarter about protecting their trademarks etc
@@1Motorbreath1 see, from a distance the Exp looks exactly like a Gibson explorer. Those differences are not readily apparent. The LP at least has a wildly different headstock.
I think Jericho is not being forthcoming with information about Gibson and possibly a lawsuit. Also yes Gibson is a big company but at least those 2 designs are theirs to protect.
14:05 what is "just enough" though? Gibson won the lawsuit against PRS (even citing the 4 knob layout) which later turned out to be the exact opposite of Gibsons shape and was thrown out.
I totally agree on the cease and desist piece. They would have sent something. Then, I can also totally see them sending one based on the screen grabs I am now seeing of Jericho's Explorer and LP models. Jericho didn't even try to alter the design.
I don't think Gibson could have shut down a website without any written warnings.
I agree with you about Gibson quality. They're good. The QC hate is just mindless internet droobs regurgitating each other's idiocy.
Great video Kyle. I’ll keep an eye out for any updates as well.
I pretty sure the body shape cannot be copyrighted but the headstock can. That’s why you see 100’s of other Les Paul and Strat copies all over the place
I'm not an attorney but I believe it would take a court order, cease and desist, or something equivalent to intervene in a companies practices. And...that would be laid out in a very specific manor.
Gibson may have "alleged' quality issues but their guitars are second to none. IMO...no other brand's name can rival the authority and clout that comes with the Gibson badge.
Everyone jumps on the bandwagon about their electrics but has anyone considered looking at their acoustics? I believe Gibson has the number one spot for high end acoustic guitar sales.
Gibson "is" a world class leader. People can pick the company apart to the end of the day but......Gibson.....is a rock.
Thanks for covering this and providing an alternate point of view. I think it would be really easy just to take one side here so it's good to encourage deeper thought
Jericho’s website is still up, (I checked early This morning, Sun 15 Jan 23), but the Les Paul and Explorers have been removed. You can buy off their website.
I bought 2 gibson les paul's in 2017 high performance. Everyone hated on them but they were absolutely perfect. Now bought an Adam Jones standard and it is great, on little bit of glue on the fretboard but not a big deal.
Honestly, I’m surprised they seem so caught off guard by it.
They knew what they were doing and they knew it wasn’t okay, so not sure wtf he was expecting to happen here…
Gibson has *never* looked the other way. Ever.
I'm kind of diggin' on the walnut fusion....they come with cases?
What's the deal with "Hamer" Explorer ?? they're very close to the Gibson Explorer shape ??
Jazz Hands! Love your shirt ✌🤘
Gibson is. actually just advertising Jericho guitars because I had no idea who they were before this
15:54 they can if a judge finds corse to do so like hwhat Nintedno did to a Switch modding company a few years back... Which you do have a point this could have been a hacker/troll not Gibson but I don't think they can legelly shut down a site just because the site's owner did not read an email... They would have needed to take them to court first.
Not that I would put it passed Gibson, but something doesn't seem right. Jericho Guitars is highly likely leaving out some information. First, I don't believe that they didn't send a cease and desist. Two, what does he mean Gibson shut him down? Did they hire a hacker, or did the courts shut him down? There's a big difference. Also, I can see why they shut everything down because they are conducting an investigation, and part of that investigation is figuring what the damages are. If Jericho has access to any part of the business, then he can start destroying evidence to reduce damages.
I agree man. Not taking sides either way as I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. But having dealt with legal proceedings, there’s letters and notifications and many steps leading up to actual action. Find it VERY hard to believe Gibson just shut their whole site down without some communication and legal proceedings beforehand. And honestly I can understand if a company doesn’t want their designs that they worked hard to come up with being copied to make someone else profits. Plenty of companies like Eastman and ESP make amazing Gibson inspired instruments with their own variation in design that sell well. No reason a company needs to copy the Gibson shapes exactly. Also, the Gibson hating is getting old AF. They absolutely have their faults but they still make some amazing guitars. If anyone is unhappy about their price or product, just move along and buy something else…there’s enough alternatives to make everyone happy. And last I checked you can still find a great playing USA made Les Paul tribute for $1300 and under $1K used. That’s the same price or less than many eastern made ESPs and Made in Mexico Fenders.
Don't want to get sued? Be original, or get ready to explain and defend yourself in court.
Like yourself, Kyle, i hate the company, but love and buy the guitars. All the QC talk seems like BS to me. All Gibsons I've owned(probably 10-12 in the past few years, all 2008 and newer) have been flawless. I hate to say it, but it seems like jealousy among people who can't afford them.
I can afford them. I just don't like them at all. I own a couple PRS Core models. Let's just leave it at that.
@pattyg5502 Yeah, that's fair. I meant that specifically about the ones who claim Gibson is nothing but QC issues, and Harley Benton, Epiphone, etc, are better. PRS are excellent too
@@RByrne Ahh, I see. I agree with you. Saying a brand like Harley Benton is better than Gibson is complete and utter BS. HB sucks and it's not because they're affordable. Watch KDH's video for more details, but those pickups are microphonic as hell.
@pattyg5502 i saw that, and he isn't the first one to find serious flaws with an HB. I find it hard to believe Thomann when they said they checked all the other ones and had no issues with the pickups. So KDH got the only 2 bad pickups from the stock?
Fudge. Wish I knew the Jericho Silverburst existed.
there's always chibsons 🤣
I guess thats it, my next guitar wilk be a Jericho one LP for sure
As of this morning the website for Jericho guitars is offline...
If I was going to spend that much money it would be on a lot of different guitars before a Gibson. They seem like scumbags to me since the play authentic video and the price versus quality
Maybe Gibson should hire some of the former Jericho employees so maybe Gibson can produce decent guitars then.
Lame
"Down with the underdogs"? C'mon Kyle... you blew a perfect opportunity to quote Terror there!!!!!!
They did the same thing to Ibanez long ago when Ibanez made nice Les Paul copies…friend had one.
How dare Gibson defend their business from plagiarist that are blatantly ripping off their designs!!
Thing is, the story is implausible. How did Gibson shut down the websites? No one's accused them of that before, that I'm aware of.
Personally I don't think it's cool that all these other brands rip off Gibson and Fender. For 1, Gibson/Fender made these shapes famous through literal decades of hard work. And 2, it stunts creativity and makes the market bland and we're seeing that now, every looks like a Strat or Les Paul. I think it's hard to see a consumer but once you become the designer of a product that you helped establish and literally hundreds of brands just rip your off, it's downright theft
Utility Patents in the states only last 20 years and design patents only last 15 years. We are way past that. With that said, they cannot make a direct copy of a product because counterfeit law is another area. You have to change a few things atleast to be slightly different. That’s why fender copy companies can change the headstock and a pickguard and it will fly in court and fender would loose.
@synonyx dude, I'm not talking abt legality I'm just saying ethically and creativity-wise. The fact that every guitar nowadays looks the same bc Schecter, ESP, Ibanez, and Jackson just copy off Gibson and Fender is sad. I mean it's legit the same as copying someone's homework and just changing a few things. They copy the explorer, flying V too, like how much more blatant can it get. Besides Ibanez with the Iceman, none of them are trying. Think abt it, if the patent laws were actually stronger, imagine how much more creative these companies would have to be
Clever marketing ploy to get attention (done), or going out in flames (TBD)? Seems they practically dared Gibson to take action. Jericho shouldn't be surprised. In fact, they should have seen this coming. Perhaps they did and are welcoming the attention. However, accusing Gibson with no evidence ... well, good luck with that. Libel/Slander can be a lot of fun to deal with.
i luv Gibson i luv Fender and many brands but if Jericho told truth on getting shut down in the way that was told my next axe is Jericho
There was prior contact between the two companies, Gibson attorney's most likely warned Jericho that this would be the next step. Sounds like Gibson is serious about ending the fraud.
For their price Gibson does have bad quality control. Mainly finish issues but for the price one pays it's inexcusable.
I still don't understand why smaller companies aren't citing previous case law in defending themselves. FMIC got their ass handed to them for doing this same thing; picking on small companies that had similar shapes. It was ruled something to the effect of "This shape has been around for so long that it's generally considered a "generic electric guitar."
Also, I have never owned a bad Gibson. Only bought one in person. The rest were used online.
I have purchased two new Gibson in the last year. Adam jones standard. Perfect no issues with it. I have a Dave V green. The green has some tooling marks and a few finish issues. But I love both and I am Prs fan boy. So for me to like both did shock me. I just don’t like Gibson bullying.
I think Heritage gets a pass because as you said, the pickguard and headstock are different. Also, the bottom horn is slightly shorter, and it probably doesn't hurt that they sort of have the Gibson DNA by way of how the company originally came to be.
I totally get both sides reasoning.I just hope Jericho can continue on in the future with their own designs.Cause from what I've heard is that the build quality is excellent.🤘😎👍
Unfortunately Gibson is right, although I couldn’t stop thinking about Jericho stunning take on explorer .
"You have been warned"
--- Lord Agnesi
I love my Gibson Les Paul it is like no other guitar I've played
I hate bullies ... and that's what Gibson are these days, Jericho's story true or not ... Gibson guitars ? done, no more ever ... there are so many other brands that are delivering as good guitars for a third of their price at the minimum ...
I liked their Avenger model, but they don't seem to make them anymore.
I really HATE to defend Gibson here but there’s no way they could do this without legal precedent and prior actions. How Jericho could have missed them I have no idea. I don’t like Gibson’s lawsuit happy approach at all, but I do think they have a case with the singlecut and explorer type guitars from Jericho. And why Jericho was doing them is nuts because they have great guitars and style sensibilities, the other models looks great.
They did them because it was their best sellers.
@@NateThunder yeah, because people love those Gibson styles… exactly why Gibson targeted them. That’s why it was nuts, it drew the wrath of Gibson.
My son and I get to actually try a lot of different used Gibson's from Les Paul's to SG's and unfortunately only less than 10 out of maybe the 30 we've tried have had that "Gibson" character, the funny thing is the guitar's that had the most Gibson character was a 1979 Greco Standard EG 700 which my son bought, a Orville Standard, and a PRS Starla. Now with that said we only play the Gibson's on the floor of that shop which are May $2,000 at the most and maybe $1,000 at the cheapest so maybe the $3,000 and up behind the counter sound better but we don't touch those 😂
Totally agree with damn public hate about their guitars, hate it
I have and had many guitars from Fender and PRS, still play some of them, some of them are sold, but my 2014 Les Paul Traditional is still have guitar I ever owned
Who knows how many times Gibson has done something like this without us knowing? I LOVE my LP and I tried a lot of killer gibson guitars lately. I dont like the way they handle themselves as a business though. I wanted a Jericho Explorer as it ticked off a lot of check boxes for me and now that's not an option but I cant just go to Gibson and get a Gibson Expolorer as they dont have the same specs as the Jericho. Stainless frets with Gibson? No. Baritone? No... I guess my thing is if Gibson really wants to shutdown a lot of builders give us some better specs and colors. Also there is a guy in Atlanta that can build Gibson shapes but they have approved him.
It just generally sounds like a bad time, regardless how big you are, if you fuck with a guy whose last name is pronounced like "Muscle Man"
I have a Jericho guitar. It’s a baritone neck through with a Pegasus and I love it. Don’t care for Gibsons for the reasons everyone says. Too expensive. Too much hype and questionable business practices. I wouldn’t buy a Fender or a Gibson new but that’s just me.
Kyle Bull - nice on TH-cam, nice on the Chug Life comments. It's a good way to be 🥂
Wasn't this shape shit settled in court years ago.
I love Gibson guitars as well. I’m not a fan of giving in to what others think.
I don’t know much about Jericho Guitars but from what I saw earlier it looks like they did rip off the Gibson designs.
I love Gibson. I just cant afford to pay $5500 Canadian dollars for a 335 when Epiphone is putting out very very good versions for one fifth the price. It’s sad.
Devil's advocate and strictly JMO...but Gibson wouldn't have to worry about any of this if they kept their quality up. They have produced A LOT of junk in the past decade or more...and still put a 3k+ sticker on it.
You (used to) be able to find many Asian made Epi's that smoked many American gibby's for a fraction of the cost. You want exclusivity....? Represent. Don't be surprised at knockoffs. If you're sweating them...if their breaking into your bank...ask yourself why?
/not a current gibson or epiphone owner
They tried to basically do the same thing to Dean. Dean can no longer produce the V and Z models, I bought a '79 V last year and it's a keeper.
These lawsuits go back to the original Telecaster electric guitar and Gretsch drums. It’s how the telecaster got its name.
It blows my mind that some people have this concept in their head that it’s ok to rip someone off as long as they are a “big corporation”. If Gibson stole a design from Jehrico, I’m sure the optics would be completely different.
A lot of people talk about Gibson’s “timing” in this. Maybe they didn’t care until their market share was being eaten into.
You can view this 2 ways. Gibson bullies smaller builders into shutting down. The other way to view it is Gibson is trying to protect the livelihood of 2800 employees after going bankrupt. To be honest, I don’t know if either of those statements is “wrong”.
This is a show of force by gibson of how powerful they are, I'd be pissed too! It's their design and they weren't simular they were spot on, they have a right to protect their product design.
I have a 1992 Les Paul and a 93 ES-335, which I bought new, and they are great. But I wouldn’t buy another.
Here's a novel idea how about guitar makers create their own design's and quit copying other guitar makers products.
Why would a brand risk copying Gibson. This is a known risk. Don’t feel bad for them.
Never heard of jericho, but now I may purchase one. Thanks Gibson!
I in general try to use small builders as often as i can gibson is a large corporation n thats how they act. I wish that gibson would take all that money they spend on lawsuits and give their workers a raise. They may have found its cheeper to attack their site than do the legal thing. They could have just done the equivalent of a copyright claim rather than a lawsuit
How would you like someone to rip off your work … Jericho needs to come up with their own design …. Leave Gibson alone
Having been served a civil suit letter in the mail (old CC account) they look a lot like junk mail and that’s your only warning of a judgment but this seems unlikely for a case this serious. That being said, seems extreme. Gibson is a very large company as well, and while it seems like only select cases go public they probably send out dozens of C&Ds a year to all kinds of brands. I still think Gibson makes a good guitar but people do like to pile on brands when a case goes public
I have no sympathy for brands like Dean or Jericho making straight Gibson copy guitars. This is no different from the lawsuit eras.
Gibson is USA brand manufacturer. They have to pay full price to make whatever they craft here. Dean and Jericho used Gibson designs, have them produced at a 1/4 of the cost, and then sell them in the same market at half the cost to compete with Gibson.
It’s disingenuous to say it’s not a knockoff when it’s the guitar companies biggest seller and it does affect Gibson’s sells.
Seems like Jericho guitars site is still up
I own both brands with
explorers preferably would stick with Jericho more then Gibson as better quality and specs it’s a shame that this happens there are lots of small builders that make similar or copies I look at it as a compliment!
Jericho Guitars. Never heard of them.
I know a lot of people like Gibson but the fact that I can no longer buy a new ESP mx because of them makes me hate Gibson.
I will never actually turn on Fender or Gibson, *but I will criticize the hell out of them! lol*
The influx of seemingly high end, "junk brand" guitars coming in from Asia for $200, sometimes and left and right, is due to the CNC takeover which is dependent primarily on duplicators, CNC mills, and CNC painters.
Unskilled laborers can be trained to perform all the human reliant steps granted they do end up with a skill after the fact, *anyone can be trained to do the work.*
Gibson uses CNC mills and painters which dramatically cut costs, *but their guitars are now $3,000 and you can literally buy a knock off that's as good for $200!* It won't be out of the box, but it needs very little work and no high-cost mods if you're as experienced and educated as I am, *and I actually hate seeing Gibson shoot itself in the feet over and over again.*
The bottom line is if I were actually climbing the entertainment ranks and Gibson wanted to sponsor me, I would hock their $3,000 guitars all day long! lol. *Some of my irreverence views are somewhat reliant on my poverty lol*
*Ultimately, IDGAF about how other people spend their money in America, granted if I have to see it, sometimes it does make me sick.*
The only people that hate on Gibson are people that can't or won't afford a Gibson. The "just as good as" army.
I would really like Gibson to release a statement regarding this issue. Seems odd that we haven't heard their side of this.
I don’t feel bad for Jericho and I don’t blame Gibson. Don’t steal someone’s IP and pass it off as your own.
They had it comin...that's business.
This is incredibly disappointing news. Jericho guitars are great. I see little correlation between gibson & jericho with exception of the 2 LP style ypu pointed out, so this news is totally out of left field. Thing is, Dean fought (and won) the V fight so I don't see how gibson has a leg to stand on with this. It appears they're just picking on smaller companies they believe don't have the funding to fight their on-staff lawyer team. I've had a couple of baritone guitars in for mods and pickup swaps and they're an absolute joy to play. I prefer epi/gib scale and neck profiles and the feel of a big chunky LP body to beat on. Like ypu, love the guitars, not so much tge company. Given the recent (and not so recent) developments, I'll likely never buy another and more likely pick up a lefty baritone Jericho whenever I can. They're great instruments.
Yeah...companies should just surrender their Intellectual Property Rights at the drop of a hat to THIEVES.
Gibson just need to concentrate on their quality control rather than suing everyone
Gibson does this on a regular basis. Usually failing. It all depends if the target company has the resources and will to take them on on court.
I really hate to do this to the little guy here but I'm being honest. I really think Jericho needs to get a much much better communications team. I ordered one of their great looking guitars earlier this year and my phone calls and emails were completely ignored by them for months. They wouldn't even cancel my preorder i had to dispute the charge. I really hope they get it together..
You're not the first person to tell me this after posting this video
Seriously folks, you legally HAVE to protect you IP or else. Simple as that
Tell them and all the other companies stealing the Les Paul shape and they will stop suing.
What i find kinda funny is most of their guitars are telecasters... wait for it.... not a Gibson design! The newest series has hints of Thunderbird vibes, and a little Les Paul, but funny enough I would think PRS would be the one trying to take a law suite in their direction not the overpriced folks in nashville
I completely understand knock off guitars that are literally falsely labeled Gibson but the Les Paul body shape isn't something I think should be worth destroying small guitar luthiers over.
It’s not just the shape, it’s the binding, the number of pickups, the bridge and it’s locations and other aspects
@@robertsole9970 You cannot copyright number of pickups, binding or bridge type/ location. In fact the copyright courts don't even like to allow copyrights for body shape. They do allow copyrights for headstock, names and sometimes even proprietary paint colors. There are guitars that pre date the original Les Paul with a similar body shape. I just think it is ridiculous for a big brand to go after a smaller brand over a single cut body when everyone and their mother makes a LP style single cut. Gibson could have made a compromise with the guy by giving him the chance to slightly change the shape of the body.
@@shredenvain7 I’d like to read the actual court filing. Until I see that and what it’s specifically says, all these opinion videos are just that. So I’m going to go find it and read it. There should be public documents filed on this in public domain. Off I go.
People hate Gibson guitars because they don't have one. Bottom line....they have to protect their brand
Rules are rules. Follow the copyright and trademark rules or risk the consequences. and maybe Jericho should’ve kept their business data and kids’ gymnastics schedules stored locally and not on the cloud. Not Gibson’s fault Jericho’s data was vulnerable.
Reverb bounces between 8000 and 13000 Gibson Les Paul guitars for sale at any point in time. Once the boomers start dumping their collections they're going to crash that used Gibson market exactly like they did when they bankrupted Harley Davidson.
Design patent laws should be stronger, the fact that every metal guitar looks a super strat with a Floyd Rose, stainless frets, etc is sad. There's no creativity in the market when u can openly copy off more successful brands
Definitely agree that Gibson gets a lot of flack because it's the fashionable thing to do. That being said, their PR people are horrible 😆
If Gibson really wanted to put a brand out of business, they need only buy them. Works like Swiss clockwork, every time.