Moog Subsequent 25 VS Sub 37 Real World Comparison; Let's Talk
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.พ. 2021
- I take a look at the @MoogSynthesizers Subsequent 25 and subsequent 37 and try to compare them from an actual everyday use case scenario point of view. Hope you enjoy it! Let me know what you think!
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RE: "compensating"...You make me laugh. Love your deadpan jokes! Please keep up the entertaining and helpful videos. :)
What an excellent video. I bought a 37 last week. You made so many excellent points that totally affirmed my decision, and made me more grateful. Presentation and points were great, kept my attention which is rare!
Very interesting and effective approach to an incredibly difficult comparison. Bravo ! Thank you.
You are brilliant! Love your videos man
Thank you for digging deeper in your pockets for the community! FOMO is real and it’s particularly real for me being a family man and having a tighter budget nowadays. I can’t afford to make upgrading to the latest and greatest a habit and prefer to buy the “best” one for me the first time around. So thanks for covering these two synths. 🤔 I thought I subscribed after your last video but it’s official now. 👍🏾
Thank you so much my friend! Hope to see you around soon!
I had a sub37 back when the first came out, sold it a year later... missed it (except for a couple of issues) saw they had been fixed in the subsequent 37 so rebought that! Good to have it back, essentially the same great synth with some refinements and a better keybed, it sits above my Prophet 10 rev 4 as my mono/poly killer combo!
Very clear and comprehensive conclusions. Good job thanks
Just discovered this channel it’s awesome
Thanks bro!
Absolutely brilliant angle in exploring the two synths! It's a little lower on my buy list but now I at least know which one I'll be looking to get by that time. Funny how sound comparisons and features per knob on these never gave that clear-cut sense on which I wanted.
Happy holidays and congrats on your Moogness. Your Sub 25 video is inspiring especially for a synth bass lover.
Thank you my friend!! Happy new year!
Great videos!
Great video! Thank u.
Thanks for watching!❤️
Can’t wait for that op-1 vs deluge video! 🙏
Thanks for such a unique video! That brought me closer to sub 37, as an owner of 25, which surely is a splendid instrument as well.
Really helpfully Video. 👍😎
I like this smart Synth-Guy and his Content.
Fantastic and when you have both it is just a joy.
Lol, very true!😜
Just a comparison I was looking for :) Thank you for this great video. One thing - maybe you could add chapters to your videos? It would help to jump quickly between the parts.
"I have a very small Peepee, and I tend to overcompensate by buying expensive synths..." Hilarious!!! Made my day! People take themselves too serious these days, thus killing the fun. Luckily, you're not one of them.
Reg. the subs... I believe your new Polybrute will smash 'em both against the wall sound wise and sound tweaking capability wise. Question here again is - how much gear does one truly need and when is it time to admit that some of the gear in ones' studio is outperforming / "redundanising" each other with the ultimate consequence of letting go of stuff??? Big problem for me as well and I guess for many musicians as it is just too easy to get gassed up on things we don't really need.
Please don't forget your fans while moving ;o>
Love and light from Khao Lak
Fantastic review 👏 the 37 is worth going that extra mile for, even if its secondhand.
I'm on exactly the same page. I chose the 37. The presets, 37 keys were really crucial for me. The sequencer, less menu diving and such were nice additives...
I bought the Sub 25, I was thinking about the 37 but i ended up getting the Korg Prologue 16 to go with the Sub 25 because I wanted something that was truly polyphonic. At some point I may get the 37 but the 25 has been perfect so far, I’m not a big fan of all the hidden parameters but I use it connected to my MacBook Pro and can access all the hidden controls from the editor software, and tbh I rarely reach for it, all the main controls are on the Sub 25
Honestly, I bought sub 25 and expected that it would be a bit limiting as only synth, it turned out way better than I expected. Front panel contains most things you need and you can do init patches with hidden parameters enabled. Lack of sequencer is easily bypassed by Korg SQ-1(even more awesome that sub 25 has cv ins) in my case and for effects I just hook it up to my guitar pedalboard! Sub 25 feels a lot like a guitar in some sense, kinda familiar feel where you can't do much without external gear but with it only gets better. Wish people were appreciating subsequent 25 more, it's a great synth.
Hello again, incidentally, what are you using to hold up those two Elektron boxes against the wall ? I’m in the early stages of figuring out how to put together a (very) small home studio so I’m busy looking at racks, stands, shelves, etc. No idea what I’m doing but having fun doing the research and learning. No one really talks about how to put together a studio, how to rack / mount everything, how to do wiring, patch bays, mixing, etc. Maybe that’s an idea for a future video ?
Hello ! Sorry to repeat myself, but the quality of your videos is just fantastic. Really. You recently advised me to go for a Sub 37 and this synth is just amazing. One of my best purchases. Thank you for that (even if the idea of a Matriarch still haunts me ;)). BTW, do you plan to get your hands on a Polybrute ? GAS is stronger than ever this year (must watch your GAS Therapy vid again I think !)...I am looking forward to discovering your next video! Take care. S.
I second your comment. This is a great channel.
I have a Matriarch but the 37 is something I’d like to try someday, on the other hand... the Polybrute seems amazing and maybe a better complement to any of both Moogs. It would be interesting to know his thoughts about it.
I have found that feature packed expensive (flagship) synths are designed for stage use, where you may want only 2 or 3 synths to transport. In the studio, I would much rather spend the huge difference in price (sub25/37) on a different synth and blend the two together which will really expand the sound pallet past the one featured packed synth.
The answer is ANY! While I have neither of those. My compensating situation is so bad, I need 37CV edition in silver :P it’s so premium, I never stick to any other friend for it to use the extra CV outs :)
Have a Sub 25 on the way and considered all the pros and cons of it with your videos. Thanks for all the info! And random question, what’s the stand the Digitakt and Digitone are on?
Thanks … 🙏🏻
Great comparison and humor too! This is tough. I own the original phatty, hoped when novation dropped the duophonic firmware for the bass station 2 that Moog would follow suit. Nope.
If Moog does want my money in the future then they need to drop a 4 note poly sub37 line synth. 2-2,500 and the mod matrix and they will have me. I’m not into the matriarch and I’m never going to get to vangelis level for the ‘One’.
Can't decide on either Sub 37 or Pro 3, so your fab video is fascinating. I'm looking for a mono synth to cover analog bass & leads. I usually sequence externally, so onboard sequencer not a game changer. From your video on the Pro 3, seems you feel the Pro 3 is more bang for buck but in your opinion can it handle bass like the sub 37?
If you only need one standalone Moog.... Subsequent 37! Their other offerings (except Moog One) seem to be designed as an expandable ecosystem of sorts...
Bro you’re American bo beats! I love it!
Hey man! Love your stuff...what do you think about the Sequential Pro3?
Thanks dude! I haven’t played it but I find it very interesting! Certainly lots of power under that hood. Ricky Tinez has a very cool video with it if you want to check it out👍🏼
I watched your sub25 video and was sold. It sounds amazing, but after a few weeks I took it back because
1) straight from the factory, there’s a firmware issue that makes it play a half step out of tune. So then everyone I made a new patch, I’d have to transpose the keyboard. (Moog still doesn’t have a resolution for this)
2) I had a lot of issues with their VST tool in Cubase. I constantly found it crashing or even crashing my session.
I purchased the sub37 and haven’t looked back.
Great video, but I have a question: what is that rack in the background holding your Digitone and Digitakt? is it mounted on your desk?
👆
Thank ya! great video.. I wish the would be a desktop version of Sub25, without the keys. Or better with 3 OSC's ;-).
That would be awesome! Something like a Mother 96 would be great lol, thanks for watching!
thank you! watching the video a few days before I buy a Sub25... Been using a borrowed Sub37 and would prefer to buy one but financial reasons the Sub25 it is. Mostly using it for killer basslines!
I think it´s an amazing choice! Even though I kept the 37 in the end, I still miss the warm flavor of the 25, enjoy!
@@MidlifeSynthesist I am enjoying it, thnx!
BTW, since having both, have you tried to polychain 37+25? Was my first thought when Moog announced 25. Should be phunn!
Nice video and very nice opinions! I have a question, is it ridiculous to buy a sub25 when I have Sub37😥Cause I love it’s simplicity and size. I often get lost in Sub37 because it’s too complicated.
This one was great thanks mate! Really appreciated all the work you put into that. I'm having an eye on the minitaur for a long time but now I'm also taking the Sub25 into consideration! Sub37 is just too big and my girlfriend will kill me. With the Sub25 I'll probably only loose a leg or an arm
on a "serious note" Im wondering about this vs a Sequential Pro 3. Roughly in the same price bracket stateside.
Just ordered the sub 25 from Sweetwater
I already have the Korg wavestation A/D and the Wavestate and Volca keys
A yamaha SY35 and the Dgx 230
Behringer Deepmind 12 and Behr Odyssey
And a Roland D05, a stylophone and the wavestate VST on my laptop
No daw
I wanted the 37 in a bad way it just isn't in the budget
This will be my third Moog in my life
Forty years ago i got the Radio Shack MG1 which as you know was Moog made
Then16 years ago i got the Moog theremin
And now the sub 25
I am thoroughly jazzed.
Cool videos brother
Play On
( Edited because of fat fingers)
Thank you for watching my friend! always great to hear from fellow midlife synthesists!
Thanks for the great insights! Can you please do a sound compairison? Or isnt there a difference in sound besides the limited features of the sub25? Im trying to find out if the sub25 is capeble of what the minitaur can do sonicly, since the sub37 in compairison, is a less earth shaking.
That´s gonna be a tall order since I sold the sub25 LOL. HOWEVER! I can honestly say that the sub25 is powerful and extremely warm sounding synth. I found it to be less harsh than the sub37 in my time playing with it. I remember the minitaur fondly and I would advise keeping it, since it always delivered and made a great companion in every setup. (starts searching for minitaurs on ebay...)
@@MidlifeSynthesist Haha! Good to know! Thanks, i really appreciate it!
I find the Minitaurs sound to be different than the Subsequent 37. I'm assuming that the sound of the Sub25 is similar to the Sub37. In general, I like the Subsequent 37 far far more than the Minitaur, both in terms of features and in terms of sound. But the cost, size, and general form factor makes it a pretty unfair comparison anyway. And there are one or two sounds the Minitaur can do that I keep coming back to. But the Subsequent is a desert island synth.
I'd like to get my hands on either of these two. Based on your arguments, I'd probably go with the 25 because I don't have a lot of space at the moment.
Anyway, a good discussion opener mediated with a well-made production. Thanks for sharing.
Waiting for those Deluge videos ;-)
Are your "Digi" boxes on a dual monitor vesa mount?
I'm a DAW guy maybe Sub37 is a bit overkill, but who cares. lol I love it!!
Lol, I’m with you dude🤣👍🏼
... and if a synth is way beyound your budget: Get it anyway!
th-cam.com/video/Zfh8DmmU-PA/w-d-xo.html
Does the sub 37 come with the VST too?
@@64hapz you have to register your synth on moog's website and then you can download plugin.
"House of Mogh" Star Trek reference at the end? I never knew Moog was a Klingon synth company 😆
Brilliant Video! I ended up choosing a Sub 25 over Sub 37. I love my Sub 25. But its not Sub 37. Lol
I love the sound of the Little phatty but I've heard that it has issues staying in tune. I just want to use it for bass and occasionally lead sounds. Is the Sub 37 a good option instead? Can I get the same sounds out of it?
Not sure if the same, but it has endless character, deeep low end and incredibly stable tuning🤘🏻 a modern classic for sure!
You have a Matriarch. I have a Grandmother, totally studio-based. I'd like a 37 but struggle to convince myself that it would offer much more over the Grandmother. What's your opinion on that?
I find simplicity extremely inspiring, and the 25 just looks visually cleaner. i sort of wish the sub25 has aftertouch and sequencing, because the other stuff i dont really care to deeply about.
maybe a 37 key, simple version, lol would that be a waste or what? lol
So far my sub 25 has made a beautiful decoration, hard to capture that pretty thick sound on digital 😞
😅
What's the software for? Is it usable like a plugin in a daw without the hardware?
Really enjoyable and informative video, but one nit pick is that the title uses 'Sub 37' whilst the description uses the term 'Subsequent 37'. Then in the video you're talking about the Sub 25 and Sub 37 but the video of the front panels of the synths suggest that you're playing with the Subsequent 25 and the Subsequent 37. This confusion might all be my misunderstanding, which is that the Subsequent 37 Synth replaced the earlier Sub 37 so they're two different synths, and probably have different features. Then from an online search there's a 'Tribute Edition'
So from this video I'm wondering is the Sub 37 better then the Subsequent 37 so it's worth some patience on Reverb to wait for an older Sub 37 rather then the Subsequent 37. More research required. What was wrong with adding Mk-II the the name? All this is possibly my misunderstanding, thanks for the great video. I think it tells me I want a 37, but which 37? Sub, Subsequent or Tribute.
you can use sub 25 duophonicaly over midi?
I dont actually have any Moog in my setup and have long promised myself I need to sort that out. Totally understand about buying back a synth you previously sold. I did that with the Matrixbrute. It was never my most used synth but almost immediately after selling it I realised nothing else in my setup did what it did, at least not as well. I bought it back last year and won't be getting any other crazy ideas of selling it.
I dont sell gear unless it doesnt work,or it's just a piece of trash..Otherwise,feel free to sit down and dig in deep..
@@michaels5166 In a world with unlimited funds and unlimited space I would be the same. Unfortunately I have a limit on both these things.
@@BecomingProductions I do not get the correlation with what I said,because I did not say anything about buying more gear.You already had the synth,so there was no need for 'unlimited funds' nor space....
@@michaels5166 I presume you're just being deliberately pedantic with that reply. Much like most other synth enthusiasts I know, I sometimes sell on gear that I use less often to fund new gear. If I had unlimited funding and unlimited space I'd keep everything. Also like most people, I have neither unlimited funding or unlimited space. I could be equally pedantic ask the correlation with your reply to my original post, after all I didn't ask about the synths you keep. You replied in the context of your experience, as I replied in the context of mine. Is that clear enough for you?
@@BecomingProductions
First of all,you have nOTHING to assume because I spoke clearly and meant what I wrote,word for word.Next,I never said you nor the next person has unlimited anything,so there was no logical point to make with that.I didnt offer anything about my gear,because I have been intelligent,diligent,and wise enough to know what I have money for to buy and KEEP.
I also have the wisdom to not just rely on said gear to make me some money,which is yet another way to buy and KEEP gear.In fact,I NEVER sold anything,yet instead I have GIVEN gear away,like my Yamaha A4000 sampler to DJ Ekim.I have little space,yet I do have three synths,4 samplers,mixers,a whole DK setup,and a massive record/CD collection.
I'm not telling you nor the next person what to do,how to do it,I am stating FACTS.Another FACT is,I JUST bought two items by Alesis,and have yet to make space for them.So,finally,your notion of having to sell gear to have money and make space is YOUR personal problem,not mine.You can probably use your brain to figure out how to alleviate YOUR issues,instead of trying to debate with me.
I do not buy gear I dont use,cannot afford,and do not keep,unless like I said,I want to give it away.Can YOU fathom that and get it done?????That's a rhetorical question,because I do not have YOUR issue,YOU do.You nor me cannot speak for anyone else except ourselves,so making reference to others is off subject.YOU are addressing me,so I am speaking directly to YOU,not other 'enthusiasts'.
The whole thing is about knowing our personal limitations,both with funds and space,and planning accordingly.I dont do debates with anyone making outlandish points about UNLIMITED space/funds,because that's an endless road to nowhere.It's obvious few of us have UNLIMITED anything...
NOTHING else to see here!!!hehehehe...nexxxxxxxxxxxxttttt......784*&*&QWYWYW&WY&WYY&WYW*&&blah blah blah,,yadda yadda yadda...
What about between the Moog 25 & the Grandmother? I am looking under the $1K price range.
In my humble opinion, unless you absolutely need the presets, I’d go for the Grandmother. It sounds amazing, you get the taste of modular and it’s just a joyful playground of awesome synthesis. It also has that “x” factor that makes it feel special. If you need the presets though, sub25 is the one for you. Hope that helps!
Missing your videos, my friend - hoping for Deluge and Polybrute ones...
You're a beauty buddy!
So are you🥰! Have an awesome year!
👌🏿
Him : Sub 25 or Sub 37 - choose....
Me : Little Phatty Stage II
Do you think either one would compliment a Pro 3? Or do you think I'm well covered with the pro 3 alone.
I haven´t had the privilege of playing a Pro 3 yet, but from what I've seen and heard on TH-cam, it is a beast, so I don't think you would really "need" a sub37/25. But then again, if we start questioning what we actually "need" then this industry would be doomed haha. I would recommend a Moog sub37/25 in any studio regardless of the other gear around though! Cheers my friend
@Rich Day
I have both, Sequential PRO 3 and Moog Subsequent 37 CV. There truly is a partnership here, both equally complimenting each other. I had the Moog first, about a year later acquired the PRO 3, and am so pleased with both. Yes, if you can justify spending for the Moog Subsequent 37, you will not regret that purchase at all, in fact you will crave the time spent with it/ both....
Poorman’s Bo Beats. I like it.
I wanted the Sub37, but then it started appearing in every melodic techno song and now I don't even want to hear it anymore. The Grandmother... That's a different story 😁
I have a Grandmother but still fancy a 37. Not sure if it would add much over the GM. Other than presets, of course :-)
No live performances here! 25 all the way for my set up!
Great comparison!
How do the 25 and 37 sound different, can you explain?
I’m torn between the 2, I would want the one with a better smoother low end and it’s main purpose will be bass and low frequency. I’m even considering the minituar, any experience with the minituar?
Hey! I actually did a full comparison on sound between the 37 and Phatty (old 25) on my channel. Check it out - my takeaways are there!
Thanks,
I’ll check it out!
WAP has another meaning!!!...my dirty mind learned something today
"House of Moog"...did Lt. Worf open this channel?
Does the Sub-37 sound *wildly* different than the Sub-25 (esp. because of its Multi-Drive and different filter slope selections)? I already have a Sub-25, so I am doing my very best to be *reasonable* and not also get the Sub-37. But, likely similar to your experience, there is something in the Sub-37 that is teasing me to be... *not* reasonable. 😆
Lol! First of all, thank you so much for the superthanks! To answer your question, YES, the sub37 is a very different beast. Not necessarily better mind you, but very different. I’ve always missed the sheer warmth and fatness of the sub25. Definitive answer, life is too short to be reasonable, get both😜
@@MidlifeSynthesist First off, Happy 40th. ☺️ I’m a year older - that makes us both midlife synthesists. 😆 You sold me on the Sub-37 - if the shipping/taxes are affordable (I live outside the U.S.), it is an almost certain purchase. Here is now my hot question: Will you ever consider buying a Moog One? Why or why not?
I think I'm going for the 25, mostly because I'm a bass player looking for something in the same vein as the Sub Phatty etc, and the Sub 25 seems to have everything I need !
For the price of the 37, I'd rather get myself a polysynth of some kind.
You can’t go wrong with either! Having kept only the sub37, I still miss the huge low end and warmth of the sub25!! As a bass player you’ll love it!
I’m getting the Sub 25 exactly for this reason, I’m a bass player and want to expand my sound while making hips shake…
@@MidlifeSynthesist hey there. I wanted to ask for a bit of clarification on this comment. in your experience did you find that the 25 had a warmer low end? this is a factor that would be possibly point me to the 25 as I am more interested in warmer/deeper than brighter. thanks!
Wowww, Poly D, Behringer Model d, Sub 25, Sub 37 and subsequent 37. Sheeshhhhh
The Sub37 is a great instrument, but it always makes me wonder... Why not get a Pro 3 instead? Same price / size / concept, but way more versatile, with a lot more capabilities.
The Sub37 has:
- A tilted panel
- 6dB and 18dB/octave lowpass slopes
- The Moog sound
The Pro 3 has:
- A third oscillator
- Wavetables, plus an extra dimension of VCO waveshaping
- More filters, including an extra lowpass, a highpass, and a LP/HP/BP/notch state-variable
- Built-in effects -- tuned feedback, distortion, and two assignable others
- Stereo audio
- A touch strip
- Ability to play chords
- A huge mod matrix which is easy to use and makes it almost like a modular rack
- Extra LFO and 2 extra envelopes
- A powerful 16-lane polymetric sequencer which gives wave-sequencing capabilities vaguely similar to the Wavestate, or like having an extra dozen complex envelopes or LFOs
- 4X as many patches
- Playlist / favorite-patch features for performances
- A screen which is easier to read
- Less reliance on hidden features and nested menus
- About 50% more knobs
- 8 assignable CV jacks (4 in, 4 out) plus assignable switch+pedal inputs and gate out
- MIDI thru jack, and an extra MIDI out jack
They're both great, but one has a much wider sonic palette.
I have the 37 and Pro3. The Pro3 is for sure much more versatile, but it still doesn’t replace my 37, the 37 just does something special that’s hard to explain.
it’s raw sound ain’t as good
the small pee-pee synth hoarding connection. I was worried about when this would get out.
I actually don't get sub37/grandmother...one is almost as expensive as polybrute and still is paraphonic ( polybrute is ofcourse better) and the other doesn't save patches (how is that a good thing?)..I ve got a sub25, MPC One does the proper sequencing and proper arp ...deep Mind does the pads...for live stuff , we usually take a Korg pax4 pro which in my opinion is more versatile than any of these synths and has many many times saved us when some other gears fail ...anyway consider this for the price of a sub37, you can buy a sub25 and a Mpc one and that is a killer combo
Yeah. And now they almost doubled in price.
today, the Sub 25 costs as much as a brand new Sub 37 a few years ago. the Sub 37's price in turn went up in about the price range of a Sequencial Rev2. i already would own a 37, if moog would have supplied the music stores, but the supplies always delayed, this went on for months and still goes on, even when the higher price is already known. now i have no longer interest in a Subsequent 37 and in the Sub 25 not in the slightest. i h8 Moog a little for that. even the DFAM that was considered a little too expensive after the release now costs over 800 bucks, which is beyond crazy. but i already own one, for which i paid around 500 Euros 2 years ago.
Wait now... I have very very few synths, but for some reason, the inverse of the synth/girth relationship doesnt seem to apply in regards to pp. And for this, I say, pffft. pffft I say. I must have a bunch of synths like hidden in my basement... hmmm.
Or wait.. fuck... do softsynths count? emphasis on the soft.
Spit out coffe @:58
Hehehehe
Don't they have only similar names and are from the same familiy (like let's say cousins Carla and Charlotte?). The Subsequent 25 was formerly known as the "Sub Phatty" (associations..., oh boy). And now, after therapy and makeover she calls herself Sub_Sequent_25. A little bit wannabe and lookalike her sparkling older cousin if you know her from before... :) Point: I don't think there is a need to decide between those two. You either like the one or the other or both - if you can afford more than one, erm, well, synthesizer. ;)
Yup Moog screwed up with the naming of it and has everyone thinking it’s a cut down version of the 37.
Name your patreon 'Small Pee Pee Squad'
🤣🤣
Lol WAP, Warm Analog Premium
Isn't re-buying gear the same as re-marrying your Xwife? :)
These are not the same sound engines. The 25 scales differently and gets very aggressive quickly.
One should not buy one and expect it to sound like the other.
Exactly👍🏼
The best (for your wallet) is none of these.
Better show the synthesizers, your face isn't what matters.
In a lecture, only the spoken word counts,
the room would be better dark black.
Grimaces are just a distraction.
Sorry if I am honest, but just too much talking and zero action make a bad review.
why do people buy this stuff? they dont sound nearly as good as the cheapest vintage Moog. They sound identical to any soft synth. If you like knobs, buy a midi controller and you are set.