Excellent, very lucid thinking there. Thanks for sharing it with us! I missed the first KS, and as much as I love the idea of ATO, your conclusive thoughts bring food for though. I'm a lifestyle gamer through and through, but I have so many games already, and so little time! Again, I really appreciate your point of view.
No time for this epic game, despite the fact that I am almost certain that I would love it. So many large campaign games are already in my collection, that this would just be taking up space...like Tainted Grail, that hasn't hit the table for 6 months!
Insanely excited for this one. Everything new all-in! I actually put in a late pledge for ATO for 299. I did not for one second figured that the price was anything but fair. When I heard about 129 I was floored. Those people got the deal of a lifetime. I also think that because they adjust their price we wont have another Mythic games on our hands...
I am going in with Herakles to get my taste, and if I like it then consider getting the rest during a future reprint. Bummer is that Herakles is a Spring 2025 projected delivery
I still prefer KDM to ATO but both games are fantastic. I really like the settlement building phase in KDM and the two things about ATO that slightly knocked it down for me was there is far move intricate rules to learn and remember and the constant getting out and setting up then putting away of the map tiles became a real pain. Both easily top 5 games for me but KDM still number 1 but my opinion is no more valid than anyone else's, just views. Will be backing all the new stuff in a few hours.
the price change for ATO core box is warranted, in my opinion. the amount of content and the level of quality contained in it are unmatched. it should absolutely warrant a price tag similar to other big box boutique "lifestyle" games like KDM. whether it's "worth it" is up to the individual, obviously, but you will definitely get your money's worth. can't wait for Sins of Herakles, i think it will be my final big box purchase. :)
Already 100 hours in this game in a (lost after all) first Cycle Campaign. This is the best Campaign game I own. Amongst fantastic games like Middara, Gloomhaven, tainted Grail, ISS Vanguard, Drunagor and Eatherfields. This is also my favorite boss battler amongst Fantastic boss battlers like Oathsworn and Vagrantsong. (Never played KDM 😢). I Can say for sure it is worth every dollar it asks x 3.! And if you love video games RPG' s too and DnD, buy whatever you can from it!
7:35 -ish Do note that Carcass Delves only lose the resource card you gambled with, not all resource cards you earned from that fight. Still, I can understand the hesitation. I mostly see it as gambling a resource card you don't really need, and either trying to get a couple of re-rolls for what you do need, or risking it all for the rare resource (the Beady Eye for the Lioneater), or even the Core, so you can unlock a Titan form, or craft some of the more advance equipment that might require it (like Unique Items in ATO).
I With one season of Herakles, including 150 hours of gameplay, I do not even consider other seasons. I was thinking of a more accessible/cheaper entry to ATO, now to think if the changes keep it as an option or now. But the campaign is doing great with almost 1 million already, way past their initial stretch goals. As others here I am waiting for Oathsworn and Hexplore to come, so now thinking if it is time to look at something else that is not a campaign '
I started a KDM campaign again last week for the first time in about a year and all I can think is "I'd rather be playing ATO." ATO is an absolute masterpiece. It is admittedly fiddly but so is Gloomhaven. I am with you, this would be my one game if I was forced to keep only one game in my collection.
I wish their games were more accessible upfront to get into. Their price increases during the PM kind of deterred me from getting more for Kingdom Forlorn, a game I'm sure I'm going to like since I played KDM and tried the KF TTS mode. But it costs so freaking much money to get into these games. And worst of all, I want Aeon Trespass too 🤪 I might pass on the 2nd printing solely based on the price. I got plenty of campaign games anyway and I could wait until I finish all my previous campaigns before getting more. I'm currently playing ISS Vanguard. I have Frosthaven, Etherfields and The Isofarian Guards and there is still more to come.
@@dobrzpe it's not because the base game costs 127$, that I only want that. They come with so much content that just getting the base game feel like you'll be missing out by quite a bit. Hey don't worry, I get the argument and I went base pledge on certain games, hell I did with Kingdom Forlorn because I could boot fully grasp how the kingdom were intertwined. I'm having a bigger problem discerning how much content I need for Aeon Trepass. Just saying. Oh and I rarely base pledge because most if the time, these games are hard to come by. I get what you're saying btw, I'm just not convinced that backing only the base game will be satisfying enough for me.
@@Renegade_KT oh, i hear ya!! i'm wanting everything myself. prob just going to do the full ATO/5 cycles and skip Heraklese myself... and i want to add the luxury tiles. both of them. and the binder. and, and, and... LOL! you're right - sometimes these things are hard to come by if you're not in on the KS. and the crap *DOES* add up. but ultimately, the base game - for either - is *probably* more content than most will ever get into.
@@dobrzpe could not agree more. Atm I'm considering going with Heracles and skipping Odyssey. I probably won't get any add-on as a Fate pledge will already be expensive enough. But if I decide to go with it, I'll have to stop backing for a while especially campaign game. I think I have 5 to up to 10 years of campaign games to play already and Aeon feels like another 5 years by itself 😅
So its even more money I think. 129$ for Herakles core box. 300$ for the reprint of the last game. 647$ for the Herakles, the reprint of Obyssey, and acts IV and V. However their is also the fates pledge, for 489$ you can get Herakles Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring. So their is even more to Herakles if you want everything this can go up to the 1000$ range. Good thing I got everything from the original.
It looks good, intresting, but since my groups stoped Oathsworn after 8 chapters, not sure if this will ever be played. Frosthaven replaced Oathsworn for now, we might finish it when we done with Frosthaven. And to get everything 600$ + Shipping + VAT, no thanx. As you sayed so much money for something that gonna stand on shelf, got to many boxes allready doing that.
My impression right now is 12 Sins is good if cost or length of content is an issue--or if you are going to be done with ATO and are ready for more content ofc. But if youre ready to enter at a meatier, pricier point, the original does seem like the better option. Just can't justify both or the all in. Gotta get things to the table some first!
Definitely preferring ATO over KDM in so many ways, though I am not entirely sure about the new set - open world can always be problematic, and the corpse delve mechanic...seems outright bad to me. I don't like this sort of loot mechanic. That said, ATO itself has been so exceptionally good... and the price overall is fair given the gameplay I got out of it so far. I just wish there was a standee pledge to get the game for cheaper, so more people could experience it :/ It really is a bit expensive. Worth, sure, but...still.
Hey Chris! Another great video. Never played ATO but I am very interested. If you had to choose between backing ATO or backing Guards of Atlantis II, which would you choose/recommend?
Probably an easier question for him to answer if the comparison game was remotely similar. Like Herakles vs ATO, or either of those vs another campaign game.
All stretch goals are going into either SOH or the expansions for ATO (cycles 4 and 5 which are yet to deliver). They're even adding the stretch goals to expansions to ATO from the previous campaign. No stretch goals impact cycles 1-3
I think the price is fair. They sold the original at a loss to fund development. Now they are asking a fair price. And when you compare it to KDM, or Middara (now asking close to $1000 for gameplay all-in), it is a steal. And, really, ATO is that good, and SoH looks amazing.
@nifarious Lol You're absolutely correct! I just got Moonrakers and Pursuit of Happiness shipped to me. I expect the Witcher pretty soon. I haven't even opened Endless Winter. I still need to get Frostpunk, Dice Throne, Frosthaven, Zombicide and many others to the table. Unsettled, Oathsworn, Mythic Battles and several others are still in production. I definitely do not NEED this game! Thank you for the simple dose of reality. It is often needed during Kickstarter campaigns.
I appreciate the highlight of the differences, but I vastly prefer a set of 50 hour campaigns to Odyssey. It sounds to me like thanks to the shorter campaigns that let's them up the difficulty. I don't want a lifestyle game and one box of Sins sounds more than enough to me. If I love it, great - the game had done well enough that the additional boxes will be obtainable preferably one at a time with direct orders.
They really should have distilled the experience down to battling and growth. The exploration is very... meh. Just let us fight monsters, grow our characters and gear. Settlement phase of KDM makes more sense to the type of game this is. I also don't really like how the gear is done in this game by cycle.
After reading the campaign page I feel it is simply too much. I have KDM, the Aeon trespass All in, Kingdom Forlorn is coming, same for Middara and we are currently playing Oathsworn. There is simply not enough time / too much other stuff to spend ~500 hours on Aeons Trespass to make this worth it.
I am really curious how Kingdoms fForlorn turns out. I was tempted to get late pledge but initial reviews were not promising with the campaign part, but it seems that they have been working on resolving it.
@@TheTintinjb Yes, but I also felt that they were quite unlucky with the playthroughs - a few mistakes were made which in part is due to many solo gamers + 4 characters at once = too difficult for an early playthrough. I really liked the art and the rest, so I went for it (but not all in).
Exactly. The price point, the amount in the Herakles, with all these stretch goals, is way more content than i can play in a short time. By the time I'm done, I will have the opportunity to get additional content.
The kickstarter campaign is absolute lunacy, like not in a good way it's actually stupid in ambition. $640 not including the other Herakles seasons, probably looking at ~$800 including those whenever they're announced, not including shipping which is easily $200. $1000 to go all in and get 1000+ hours of gameplay that will take probably 5+ years to deliver and a year or so to actually play it all. By all accounts it's a good game but it's out of control now, I might back the core box only and be perfectly happy...
Excellent, very lucid thinking there. Thanks for sharing it with us! I missed the first KS, and as much as I love the idea of ATO, your conclusive thoughts bring food for though. I'm a lifestyle gamer through and through, but I have so many games already, and so little time! Again, I really appreciate your point of view.
No time for this epic game, despite the fact that I am almost certain that I would love it. So many large campaign games are already in my collection, that this would just be taking up space...like Tainted Grail, that hasn't hit the table for 6 months!
Same
Insanely excited for this one. Everything new all-in! I actually put in a late pledge for ATO for 299. I did not for one second figured that the price was anything but fair. When I heard about 129 I was floored. Those people got the deal of a lifetime. I also think that because they adjust their price we wont have another Mythic games on our hands...
I am going in with Herakles to get my taste, and if I like it then consider getting the rest during a future reprint. Bummer is that Herakles is a Spring 2025 projected delivery
I still prefer KDM to ATO but both games are fantastic. I really like the settlement building phase in KDM and the two things about ATO that slightly knocked it down for me was there is far move intricate rules to learn and remember and the constant getting out and setting up then putting away of the map tiles became a real pain. Both easily top 5 games for me but KDM still number 1 but my opinion is no more valid than anyone else's, just views. Will be backing all the new stuff in a few hours.
the price change for ATO core box is warranted, in my opinion. the amount of content and the level of quality contained in it are unmatched. it should absolutely warrant a price tag similar to other big box boutique "lifestyle" games like KDM. whether it's "worth it" is up to the individual, obviously, but you will definitely get your money's worth.
can't wait for Sins of Herakles, i think it will be my final big box purchase. :)
Already 100 hours in this game in a (lost after all) first Cycle Campaign. This is the best Campaign game I own. Amongst fantastic games like Middara, Gloomhaven, tainted Grail, ISS Vanguard, Drunagor and Eatherfields. This is also my favorite boss battler amongst Fantastic boss battlers like Oathsworn and Vagrantsong. (Never played KDM 😢). I Can say for sure it is worth every dollar it asks x 3.! And if you love video games RPG' s too and DnD, buy whatever you can from it!
7:35 -ish
Do note that Carcass Delves only lose the resource card you gambled with, not all resource cards you earned from that fight. Still, I can understand the hesitation. I mostly see it as gambling a resource card you don't really need, and either trying to get a couple of re-rolls for what you do need, or risking it all for the rare resource (the Beady Eye for the Lioneater), or even the Core, so you can unlock a Titan form, or craft some of the more advance equipment that might require it (like Unique Items in ATO).
Thank you for the review, I'm on the fence..
I With one season of Herakles, including 150 hours of gameplay, I do not even consider other seasons. I was thinking of a more accessible/cheaper entry to ATO, now to think if the changes keep it as an option or now. But the campaign is doing great with almost 1 million already, way past their initial stretch goals. As others here I am waiting for Oathsworn and Hexplore to come, so now thinking if it is time to look at something else that is not a campaign '
Going all in baby!
I started a KDM campaign again last week for the first time in about a year and all I can think is "I'd rather be playing ATO." ATO is an absolute masterpiece. It is admittedly fiddly but so is Gloomhaven. I am with you, this would be my one game if I was forced to keep only one game in my collection.
Awesome. Thank you.
I have fomo issues, but it does seem companies are offering exclusives more than once now.
I wish their games were more accessible upfront to get into. Their price increases during the PM kind of deterred me from getting more for Kingdom Forlorn, a game I'm sure I'm going to like since I played KDM and tried the KF TTS mode. But it costs so freaking much money to get into these games. And worst of all, I want Aeon Trespass too 🤪
I might pass on the 2nd printing solely based on the price. I got plenty of campaign games anyway and I could wait until I finish all my previous campaigns before getting more. I'm currently playing ISS Vanguard. I have Frosthaven, Etherfields and The Isofarian Guards and there is still more to come.
Herakles is $127... that's "too much"? you don't need EVERYTHING. it's price is on par, and even CHEAPER than, most other games on KS. just sayin'.
@@dobrzpe it's not because the base game costs 127$, that I only want that. They come with so much content that just getting the base game feel like you'll be missing out by quite a bit.
Hey don't worry, I get the argument and I went base pledge on certain games, hell I did with Kingdom Forlorn because I could boot fully grasp how the kingdom were intertwined.
I'm having a bigger problem discerning how much content I need for Aeon Trepass. Just saying.
Oh and I rarely base pledge because most if the time, these games are hard to come by.
I get what you're saying btw, I'm just not convinced that backing only the base game will be satisfying enough for me.
@@Renegade_KT oh, i hear ya!! i'm wanting everything myself. prob just going to do the full ATO/5 cycles and skip Heraklese myself... and i want to add the luxury tiles. both of them. and the binder. and, and, and... LOL! you're right - sometimes these things are hard to come by if you're not in on the KS. and the crap *DOES* add up. but ultimately, the base game - for either - is *probably* more content than most will ever get into.
@@dobrzpe could not agree more. Atm I'm considering going with Heracles and skipping Odyssey. I probably won't get any add-on as a Fate pledge will already be expensive enough. But if I decide to go with it, I'll have to stop backing for a while especially campaign game. I think I have 5 to up to 10 years of campaign games to play already and Aeon feels like another 5 years by itself 😅
If you’re new to this; do you advice to get AoT original or Herakles?
Not sure if it’s worth getting herakles if you backed the original ATO?
Our group will try out the TTS game first before making a decision
So its even more money I think. 129$ for Herakles core box. 300$ for the reprint of the last game. 647$ for the Herakles, the reprint of Obyssey, and acts IV and V. However their is also the fates pledge, for 489$ you can get Herakles Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring. So their is even more to Herakles if you want everything this can go up to the 1000$ range. Good thing I got everything from the original.
It looks good, intresting, but since my groups stoped Oathsworn after 8 chapters, not sure if this will ever be played. Frosthaven replaced Oathsworn for now, we might finish it when we done with Frosthaven. And to get everything 600$ + Shipping + VAT, no thanx. As you sayed so much money for something that gonna stand on shelf, got to many boxes allready doing that.
My impression right now is 12 Sins is good if cost or length of content is an issue--or if you are going to be done with ATO and are ready for more content ofc. But if youre ready to enter at a meatier, pricier point, the original does seem like the better option. Just can't justify both or the all in. Gotta get things to the table some first!
A prime IP for an epic video game
I love ATO enough to go all in on sins of Herakles... i want more of it for the next 10 years...
647 isn't all in its only 1-5 cycles plus summer, you would still need to add Autumn winter and spring, so maybe 900 or 950 all in
Definitely preferring ATO over KDM in so many ways, though I am not entirely sure about the new set - open world can always be problematic, and the corpse delve mechanic...seems outright bad to me. I don't like this sort of loot mechanic.
That said, ATO itself has been so exceptionally good... and the price overall is fair given the gameplay I got out of it so far. I just wish there was a standee pledge to get the game for cheaper, so more people could experience it :/ It really is a bit expensive. Worth, sure, but...still.
Hey Chris! Another great video. Never played ATO but I am very interested.
If you had to choose between backing ATO or backing Guards of Atlantis II, which would you choose/recommend?
Probably an easier question for him to answer if the comparison game was remotely similar. Like Herakles vs ATO, or either of those vs another campaign game.
@Rakkadeedoo that's why it's tricky...
Was wondering the same
Skytear Horde instead for both of you, if you insist on purchasing a current campaign.
Oh I'm just curious I backed both.
PSA. If you are buying the reprint of ATO Core (1-3) you get no stretch goals because they don't apply (they've said it's just if you buy 4-5 cycles).
All stretch goals are going into either SOH or the expansions for ATO (cycles 4 and 5 which are yet to deliver). They're even adding the stretch goals to expansions to ATO from the previous campaign. No stretch goals impact cycles 1-3
I think the price is fair. They sold the original at a loss to fund development. Now they are asking a fair price. And when you compare it to KDM, or Middara (now asking close to $1000 for gameplay all-in), it is a steal. And, really, ATO is that good, and SoH looks amazing.
Yeah my Middara preorder is over $900 shipped… 😑 better be worth it is all I’m sayin
@@toddcontino7271I played Middara at Pax U. Not my kinda game, but hope you enjoy it! Have you played it yet?
I'm already getting Kingdom Forlorn.
Do I need this too?
Need? Unlikely.
Enjoy? Likely.
@nifarious
Lol
You're absolutely correct!
I just got Moonrakers and Pursuit of Happiness shipped to me.
I expect the Witcher pretty soon.
I haven't even opened Endless Winter.
I still need to get Frostpunk, Dice Throne, Frosthaven, Zombicide and many others to the table.
Unsettled, Oathsworn, Mythic Battles and several others are still in production.
I definitely do not NEED this game!
Thank you for the simple dose of reality.
It is often needed during Kickstarter campaigns.
Reasonable questions&doubts. I have full confidence in ITU delivering the best thing ever :D
I appreciate the highlight of the differences, but I vastly prefer a set of 50 hour campaigns to Odyssey. It sounds to me like thanks to the shorter campaigns that let's them up the difficulty. I don't want a lifestyle game and one box of Sins sounds more than enough to me. If I love it, great - the game had done well enough that the additional boxes will be obtainable preferably one at a time with direct orders.
Hercules????
Lol I noticed too. Hair-uh-klees 😂
Yeah I was also very confused
They really should have distilled the experience down to battling and growth. The exploration is very... meh. Just let us fight monsters, grow our characters and gear. Settlement phase of KDM makes more sense to the type of game this is. I also don't really like how the gear is done in this game by cycle.
Well I just can’t afford going all in, guess I’ll pass till next campaign
After reading the campaign page I feel it is simply too much. I have KDM, the Aeon trespass All in, Kingdom Forlorn is coming, same for Middara and we are currently playing Oathsworn. There is simply not enough time / too much other stuff to spend ~500 hours on Aeons Trespass to make this worth it.
I am really curious how Kingdoms fForlorn turns out. I was tempted to get late pledge but initial reviews were not promising with the campaign part, but it seems that they have been working on resolving it.
@@TheTintinjb Yes, but I also felt that they were quite unlucky with the playthroughs - a few mistakes were made which in part is due to many solo gamers + 4 characters at once = too difficult for an early playthrough. I really liked the art and the rest, so I went for it (but not all in).
I own Aeon Trespass Odyssey, won't be looking at Sins of Herakles - way too expensive
Wait, it’s pronounced like Hercules??
No. Hair-uh-kleez
Pretty sure he’s just pronouncing it wrong
Probably intentional! Haha. You do you Liege!
Is it me or you keep saying Hercules instead of Herakles? 😅
I feel like this game would have been under $200 3 years ago and I would have backed it. At $500-600 I am going to pass.
Seems easy enough to just get Herakles and forget about the original...
Exactly. The price point, the amount in the Herakles, with all these stretch goals, is way more content than i can play in a short time. By the time I'm done, I will have the opportunity to get additional content.
not alcohol just carbonated beverages hahahah
The kickstarter campaign is absolute lunacy, like not in a good way it's actually stupid in ambition. $640 not including the other Herakles seasons, probably looking at ~$800 including those whenever they're announced, not including shipping which is easily $200. $1000 to go all in and get 1000+ hours of gameplay that will take probably 5+ years to deliver and a year or so to actually play it all. By all accounts it's a good game but it's out of control now, I might back the core box only and be perfectly happy...
Spamming the same comment across multiple channels. Get a grip and stop trolling what is obviously a project that appeals to many people.
i *think* you are/keep confusing Hercules with Herakles! two totally different people/gods/things. LOL!
It is a different name for the same person! One is the English way of saying the name the other is how it's said in greek!!🙂