I’m half way through first cycle and I can’t agree with you more on everything you’ve said. I thought it was only because I’m fairly new to the hobby and so didn’t know better but I feel I have found THE game. Your exuberance matches mine. I’m so glad I backed this. Your run through of all that is happening must seem overwhelming to some folks and you do have to reference the rules a lot but it really does flow well and for the most part things are added gradually so it is very manageable even to a newbie like me.
I've only read the Learn To Play book so far but I'm very happy with the quality of it. The writing is great and the teaching experience is also solid. Bodes well for when I can get this to the table.
I’m so happy to hear this review. Watched a couple of reviews that made me kind of regret purchasing it, but your pure excitement gives me hope (as a fellow KD:M enthusiast).
I think I landed on a goldmine with ATO. Got all expansions. Oh man. The unraveling comment of unlocking new glyphs to learn about and decipher made me smile. I hope there's base building with the Argo (ship) besides technology like XCOM or the Lantern settlement in KDM (crew? etc).
Great review. Better than KDM?! Wow. I got KDM as well. Let's see if the GC does anything. Would be good to also include production quality a little bit more in your review.
This is the game that I started playing beginning of December, now I have around 30 hrs of gameplay and I just cannot stop, this game is freaking fantastic. I don’t even wait now for Hoplamachus that should arrive January, I just don’t care about another games.
I just late pledged this! So excited to get my hands on it. I just casually looked it up while I wait for Kingdoms Forlorn but.....how could I not give into this much excitement?
Well hell Chris. You convinced me. They opened late pledge to sell last copies today and I just pulled the trigger. They will send it priority mail December 29th. I'm LOVING Oathsworn.
I would be curious to have a comparison at Oathsworn vs ATO now that they are both out - it was such a tricky decision when they were both kickstarting at the same time! 😄
I have both but prefer Aeon Trespass way more... Oathsworn is great with the cooldown cycle of abilities. The story is forgettable though. The character growth is unforgettable in oathsworn. When playing Aeons Trespass Odyssey, you will not forget the adventure. Clear winner.
@@Hisokegon88 thanks - do you mean that the character growth is unforgettable in ATO? I backed Oathsworn at the time as I thought that ATO would be too fiddly... But the Greek themed adventure is VERY tempting. Is is a linear story as tainted grail for example?
@@37stu character growth in oathsworn is forgettable... You get a few new cards but it is nothing in the world comparison. In ATO you will remember your characters...
Great video Chris the amount of detail and work you put in is crazy, thank you! Having such a hard time trying to figure if I should late pledge Kingdoms Forlorn (your deep dive video is awesome) or hammer the reprint later this month of AT:O.
Thank you for this. Awesome video. Loving the comparison. Is the “World” different enough for KDM and ATO to provide unique enough experiences? I guess for me it’s more about the immersive World than anything else. Gloomhaven was fun, but I could t quite get into its narrative and characters - so it ultimately got repetitive and more like solving increasingly difficult puzzles.
They're nothing alike world wise. It's the superior game by all accounts. Maybe the Gambler's Chest improves KDM but it won't have the same level of story immersion.
I stumbled on this game by sheer chance. I love KDM (have been playing a bit but never got too far). But I can agree, there is a definitive way to actually play and finish the game (i.e Do SA multiple times in a row to get a bunch of resources and get certain gear by LY X). What truly keeps me hooked is the atmosphere and how deadly it is. How is the replayability in ATO? You talked about having to learn certain glyphs to figure out hidden quests etc. Is that a one off? As in if I got wiped and started over, could I simply do that 'hidden' quest.
Great stuff bud mine should be here in two days and man I can't wait!! I won't have time to even learn the game over the Christmas as il be working non stop outside of a two days but il be painting some of the minis one or two at least ☺️ I backed this just after it ended when the pledge manager opened back up first over two years ago. It just seemed so cool KDM meets Attack on Titan mixed in with a story campaign, exploring and upgrading systems. Come one what is not to love about that pitch ha so far it seems like everyone is happy about this and even loves it!! Hell let's be honest if you just wanted to have some battles with friends you could rig up a simple system to just do battles and basic upgrades if you really wanted to as well ha I heard Poots is angry about it (people making and finishing a massive game in two and a half year to three years) and people are still waiting how long for basic stuff from KDM. I actually cancelled my KDM core game as it was months over due, no communication at all, no answers and I am glad I did tbh hell I still have lots of cool KDM minis and even some smaller stuff like the white lion (cool models either way)
Backing all-in but I think I would still prefer KDM, mainly due to emerging narrative vs just reading stories that were pre-written for me in the book.
To be fair, ATO's 5-cycle is over $540 now, to get the COMPLETE thing, contrasted with $420 for KDM core (or $1400something to get all-current-stuff on KDM, or $870 to get KDM + GCE expansion, or... or... Lots of or. Just covering that 5 cycle vs KDCore isn't QUITE comparable. But the 3 cycle base game is comparable, and favors ATO)
That said, KDM's strength isn't a cheap price, but rather the premium(outdated) HIPS minis and the sandbox gameplay, and the gear-grid system. I agree with you that ATO is a better game, price vs price.
That's apples to oranges. The complete experience of KDM is well beyond $420 (they upped the price). The base core of ATO is $319 now, which is less than the $420 core. But yes, both core and expansions increased in price.
@@zenster1097 I listend the KD core as $420, yes, because that is the current price, and the "1400ish for current expansions" was with the new expansion price.
I loved the L2P but I found they started you in the kiddie pool and then through you into the deep end with starting Cycle 1. They go from just fists, the voyage being a straight line, to "do absolutely everything yourself and it's now more complicated!" The Primordial movement and how crashing, knockdown, movement, and targeting work are very foreign to me and I struggle with how you manage your Titans positioning to not just always rush the Primordial, and then if you miss or wound it, it tramples you and crashes every other Titan along the way which knocks them down and essentially loses each Titan 2 full turns to stand up??
Have to agree after my way through cycle 1. Kingdom Death really seems somewhat juvenile in comparison - nice ideas, but not yet fully formed, not living up to their full potential. In ATO, even the beginner monsters already blow the ones from KDM out of the water - even the ones with direct comparisons available. ATO just feels like a more fully formed version of the idea. Replacing KDM with this is an easy upgrade, I don't see KDM hitting my table again with this on my table.
@ Getting gotcha'd by the story (fire ship -> pyramid to write it in the most nonspoily way possible for those that didn't play yet) was pretty hilarious though. The game definitely has gotchas when it wants to. That got a "no way they can't be serious" at our table.
Im glad this one paid off and im eager to start it, now the question is, what to do with kingdoms forlorn? Is there space in a collection for both? One of the things that kind of push me away is the mobs, at some point i just started liking having less enmies with tons of difference mechanic (aka bosses) over several similar enemies with less variations aka mobs with different stats blocks. Plus kingdom all in feel a bit more expensive
Well, let me tell you that mobs in kf are just great. Not at all "just mobs", they are hard as fuck, and have key mechanics that makes them unique. And having both experiences in the same game is a blast. KF will be really a huge and impressive game.
I've got it but was procrastinating due to the sheer density of the game. Your review got me hyped again :) Do you recommend reading the learn to play book before the rulebook?
ปีที่แล้ว +1
Yes, definitely. it runs you through everything to start playing as you go
KDM still has a better and more unique aesthetic and that is the reason why I chose not to purchase this on top of the Gambler's Chest and Campaigns of Death being more promising.
Almost purchased KDM and 7th Citadel/Continent for overpriced after crowdfunding prices... so glad I did not since this clearly takes the place of those for me just on theme alone and if gameplay is this good then win/win/win!
Hoping this does more for me than oathsworn. With Frosthaven, Oath and ATO in my pipe (and Folklore on my shelf) - one had to go. I chose to purge Oath because it took up way too much space, I previewed the weapon upgrades and they felt higher damaging versions of their predecessor, and the combat wasn't enthralling me. I didn't see much to look forward to other than the next boss miniature. It felt like three boxes of plastic. What are your thoughts?
Different games imo. Oath has a nice narrated perk, its also much simpler. When looking for depth to gameplay that can be disappointing. Others who dont want to spend multiple 6 hr game sessions will find oathsworn easier to learn and stick with.
I love KDM (all time favourite). And I am really looking forward to playing ATO but I am a litte bit concered about the drauma cards killing you on the first strike. In KDM I feel that I can try to avoid sudden death in the first round by preparing appropriately. Are there ways to mitigate these drauma cards?
The Trauma cards are layered by type. I can't recall, but if you draw a Minor trauma, I don't recall any of them being able to kill you. Once you draw major and grave trauma cards, there are chances but they often come with a final strike opportunity for the player. Furthermore, there is an early piece of gear that allows you, once per fight, to draw a different trauma card. So there is some mitigation.
I'm in if they release it with a better box. I missed the campaign. I already have Sator box and the Ice Box... fool me twice shame on you, fool me thrice shame on me. Or better yet maybe I should get this game and store it with the Ice box and Sator on the same shelf and label it "Wall of Shame".
I opened the box and took the game out. Then I play the game. The box sits under the table…I suspect they had the same conversation when the Beatles released the White album. Haha
I can see the appeal but after playing the Tutorial I decided it is not for me. I find the decision space disproportionally small when compared against the dedication everything else requires: 4 titans always regardless of player count, lots of reading with small font and I'm not talking about the books, even when iconography is used it is just too small to see comfortably at a distance, physical upkeep on both modes of the game is a lot, combat token and card shuffling 'fiddlyness' (I personally do not like shuffling small decks of cards (6 for the Hekaton for example), dedicated space at home for a huge and long white box that is also very heavy. It is a lifestyle game than many who like this style of combat will love, I do not doubt it will become very popular, but just like Dice Throne, I went all in then played it and realized I was wrong to go against my instincts just because the bg world seems to love it. With all that said, I think you definitely should tag this with spoilers, you keep saying "no spoilers" but then you instantly proceed to reveal minor spoilers and hints of things to come, even if it was an old prototype you are discussing, a lot of those elements probably carried over to the final product. I know I would have hated how much you let me know if I had not already decided to pass the game to someone else who will enjoy it. But that is me, I want to keep things secret if possible. I know that is not everybody but I am not alone so it always best to tread on the side of alerting for minor spoilers. Thanks for the video! I was interested in your opinion about it now that I have played it. It helps me to know the bias/tastes of the reviewers I depend upon.
Ugh this late pledge pricing is causing me trouble. I just haven't been able to pull the trigger. Alex (BoardGameCo) seemed to assume they would just do another campaign if this is well received (presumably at more reasonable prices than the late pledge) but you would have to wait another 16-24 months or even more for such an event to occur and receive fulfillment? So is it worthy paying nearly double now what the campaign backers paid to get it now? That is a very difficult question and really serious FOMO. Perhaps best I just dig in and commit to playing games I've already bought and wait and see if another campaign is created. Same thing happened to me with Flamcraft and Massive Darkness. Tried my best to decide if I should back but backed out and it looks like they landed on the hot list. Choosing witch games to back isn't easy at all. I continue to be humbled trying to allocate my limited resources to the best games. Its just really hard to figure it out upfront and you are seriously punished by the economics if you don't go all-in with your leap of faith unless you are patient and the publishers give you access to everthing in a future campaign. Yes there are many publishers that have provided pathways to catch up but not all of them do.
You will never again get the game for the original campaign price of $129. This was more than a steal and a heavily subsidized price for all backers and early believers of the project. A much more reasonable price for this game was the actual late pledge price of $299, if you consider the sheer amount of material, miniatures and content. I also highly doubt that we will see a second print run anytime soon. More likely they will announce the big "Sins of Heracles" Expansion at the end of the year (with 12 more bosses to fight), which will probably be on KS sometime next year. In this case I would say that Alex was the worst adviser you could have taken on this, as he just assumed that this will run its life cycle like most other games and was not aware of the different approach of ITU. I'm not saying that there will never be another print run but I surely don't expect another campaign for the core game anytime soon. Best you can do is either follow the updates from ITU or get a copy from the secondary market. Prices are actually not that bad at the moment. But I would expect them to go up over time.
You’re gonna have to bite the bullet if you want it. I missed the Kickstarter and it sucks when you see the price, but it’s just not something you can get anymore or ever again. If you don’t mind waiting a long time, back Kingdoms Forlorn now for a similar experience, but if you like the theme, buy ATO now. I did, haven’t looked back!
@@timcastle5441 Actually I don't think I actually like either Forlorn theme or this one. I had to remind myself that is why I skipped them in the first place. I'm really happy they have a hit on their hands. I love crowdfunding success stories and would be happy to play if invited to the table by someone else that likes the theme but I'll pass for my own collection. Enjoy!
I always describe KDM as a Roguelike Campaign game. The emergent narrative makes it infinitely replay-able. (And the Strain system has essentially added an achievement system to the game.) This seems more like a directed narrative?
So if I hated 7th continent and the exploration and literally everything about it, should I sell ATO or is that aspect of it less pertinent to the gameplay?
I also hated 7th continent. They don’t compare at all . Only that tiles look similar. There are no annoying things u need to collect or word puzzles. I can’t remember exactly but I tried to like 7th but gave up. This is a totally different animal
ปีที่แล้ว +1
if it helps, I sold 7th continent after 1 play so we’re the same in that regard.
New Shiny Thing Syndrome. ATO may, someday, after a number of editions and rewrites, become a game that survives to still be played. But in the morass of boring, irrelevant and uninformed «choices», large amounts of words used to say nothing of any actual relevance to the game, and what I can only describe as «new gamemaster making things really frustrating while sure he’s being very smart», this game has been returned to its box, where it will stay. KDM will kill you. And you will *care*. ATO will give you a new shiny titan-slave and you will ignore its utterly abysmal special rules because it will be dead soon anyway. As for the mnemos cards «building a story» for the character, this is the only point in the game where the words manage both to be few and (still) to say nothing. Meh? Meh. Sorry. If you have it and you’re having fun, carry on. Badwrongfun is not a thing. But as a KDM killer… No.
Killed kdm for me in a lot of ways. While sinilar genre both very different. This is a kdm killer for people who werent happy with kdms emegent narrative and other things. Pther people that loved kdm to begin with likely wont be happy with choices ato made. Both games can be great and scratch different itches. Im not getting rid of kdm anytime soon nor my gamblers chest. I also haven't played either since i received ato.
@@adam551982 I think it depends on why you play the game. If you're after a narrative or boss battler experience ATO all day. But the strength of KDM is in the settlement/civ building side of it. Name any other game you finish the prologue and then have to name 10+ new characters, track their lives for 30 (lantern) years, keep track of who lost an arm or leg, who had their spine crushed, who has kids with who. That side of KDM makes you appreciate those survivors each time you send them on a hunt. That experience is way more impressive than just a huge narrative you play through. To me, KDM is a civ game where the monsters are just really fucking hard to gather resources.
If money isn't an issue you can just buy a copy off ebay then wait for pledge manger to open for the expansions. Like do a little bit of research before complaining there is usually a way to still get a game as long as you can spend some extra.
@@timwanger4491 My apologies. I like watching videos on this channel and posting sarcastic comments sometimes. I should have realized anything less than outright positive comments would trigger the fan boys of this newly crowned king of hotness. I’m sorry I dared tarnish the gate to Hypernia.
Great that you like it, but in my opinion this game is too fiddly, a million rules and you constantly feel like you forgot something.. KDM is streamlined against this and that says a lot. Also the monsters dont change that much on the different levels, you are always using the same decks. I sold my copy and will stick to KDM
Amadeus how could you have possibly played ATO enough to know what the game has to offer 30 hrs in to it? BTW I own KDM, DK, Gorm and Sunstalker and have Campaigns of Death and the Gamblers Chest coming. I am a big KDM fan, but ATO looks to offer so much more. I love that stories are being told instead of just a blurb which KDM generally does. The opening story of KDM is like 8 sentences. To me, not having a story is my biggest disappointment with KDM. I am not sure I'll be keeping my Cod or GC when I receive it. Granted I waited so damn long for it, it will be hard to sell it, but while KDM is a fun boss battler, and imo it's more fun with friends, I want a game that tells me a better story I can get involved in and excited for what's next. Instead of just, did I beat this monster/nemesis? Okay, back to strategizing over what to build with what resources I have.
Hekaton level 2 versus 1 changes more than White Lion level 3 versus White Lion 1. Changing enemies via traits, like ATO does it, is ultimately a better idea, because KDMs way of doing it with extra cards only works when you actually draw them AND get sufficiently different ones. You actually have to draw the cards to see a difference, and I can tell you that after a number of KDM campaigns, only few monsters actually feel different at higher levels as a result. Really, other than the dung beetle knight, most don't even change THAT much.
@@fy8798 While I do agree with you on the whole, you got to admit that the KDM system of leveling up enemies via traits is actually very much the same. White Lion level 1 to 3 gains Cunning, Merciless and Indomitable in addition to +2 accuracy, +1 luck, +2 movement, +6 toughness, +2 speed, +2 damage. And then the additional Basic, Advanced and Legendary Cards (21 in total, whereas AT:O "only" has 18 different ones.
Once the hype calms down a bit, I'm sure there will be more people selling their copies of ATO and keeping KDM.. happened with Oathsworn, after all.. ;)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 78 | คู่เอก "ปกรณ์ vs ฟาบิโอ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LSOmgl0Th2c/mqdefault.jpg)
![🎤 ไปกันต่อออ! จับฉลากร้องเพลง x P’ #XXSIVK [EP.2] (1/2) เพลงของใครจึ้งสุดน้าา 💓🎤 #MXFRUIT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mLI_K0sAS4o/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m half way through first cycle and I can’t agree with you more on everything you’ve said. I thought it was only because I’m fairly new to the hobby and so didn’t know better but I feel I have found THE game. Your exuberance matches mine. I’m so glad I backed this. Your run through of all that is happening must seem overwhelming to some folks and you do have to reference the rules a lot but it really does flow well and for the most part things are added gradually so it is very manageable even to a newbie like me.
agreed!
I've only read the Learn To Play book so far but I'm very happy with the quality of it. The writing is great and the teaching experience is also solid. Bodes well for when I can get this to the table.
This and Kindoms Forlorn will probably be the only games i still play in 10 years !! I'm eager to start cycle 1...
I’m so happy to hear this review. Watched a couple of reviews that made me kind of regret purchasing it, but your pure excitement gives me hope (as a fellow KD:M enthusiast).
I think I landed on a goldmine with ATO. Got all expansions. Oh man. The unraveling comment of unlocking new glyphs to learn about and decipher made me smile. I hope there's base building with the Argo (ship) besides technology like XCOM or the Lantern settlement in KDM (crew? etc).
Great review. Better than KDM?! Wow. I got KDM as well. Let's see if the GC does anything. Would be good to also include production quality a little bit more in your review.
Aeon Tresspass looks amazing in every facet of its production and gameplay.
This is the game that I started playing beginning of December, now I have around 30 hrs of gameplay and I just cannot stop, this game is freaking fantastic. I don’t even wait now for Hoplamachus that should arrive January, I just don’t care about another games.
I would love to see an update to Chris's thoughts om ATO. How has it aged? What about the rest of you who were so delighted a year ago?
Man. I almost backed this, then nearly late pledged it. Now I'm wishing I would have pulled the trigger on it. Excellent video.
You can late pledge right now
I just late pledged this! So excited to get my hands on it. I just casually looked it up while I wait for Kingdoms Forlorn but.....how could I not give into this much excitement?
I just got it today finally! Hooray! I want some stickers for the box still.
Well hell Chris. You convinced me. They opened late pledge to sell last copies today and I just pulled the trigger. They will send it priority mail December 29th.
I'm LOVING Oathsworn.
Thanks for mentioning they opened up late pledges!
It killed me to sacrifice Oath for this game. I want that boss battler too.
@@zenster1097 Oath is Sooooooooo good. I'm very happy with it!
@@JasonSmithPsychedelicTherapist This doesn't help me you know. XD
So excited to hear what you think of the second and third cycle and hopefully those videos come out soon.
I would be curious to have a comparison at Oathsworn vs ATO now that they are both out - it was such a tricky decision when they were both kickstarting at the same time! 😄
I have both but prefer Aeon Trespass way more... Oathsworn is great with the cooldown cycle of abilities. The story is forgettable though. The character growth is unforgettable in oathsworn. When playing Aeons Trespass Odyssey, you will not forget the adventure. Clear winner.
@@Hisokegon88 thanks - do you mean that the character growth is unforgettable in ATO?
I backed Oathsworn at the time as I thought that ATO would be too fiddly... But the Greek themed adventure is VERY tempting. Is is a linear story as tainted grail for example?
@@37stu character growth in oathsworn is forgettable... You get a few new cards but it is nothing in the world comparison. In ATO you will remember your characters...
Oathsworn is easier to learn and play. ATO is rather fiddly so you must like complexity to enjoy it. SUSD did a pretty good review on ATO
I'd enjoy watching a playthrough all the way through, especially as you've played enough to learn the rules.
Thanks for the video! 😊 Would love to hear your update when you’ve finished your first play through of all 3 cycles.
Great video Chris the amount of detail and work you put in is crazy, thank you! Having such a hard time trying to figure if I should late pledge Kingdoms Forlorn (your deep dive video is awesome) or hammer the reprint later this month of AT:O.
Thank you for this.
Awesome video.
Loving the comparison.
Is the “World” different enough for KDM and ATO to provide unique enough experiences?
I guess for me it’s more about the immersive World than anything else. Gloomhaven was fun, but I could t quite get into its narrative and characters - so it ultimately got repetitive and more like solving increasingly difficult puzzles.
100% different worlds. Yes, it is
They're nothing alike world wise. It's the superior game by all accounts. Maybe the Gambler's Chest improves KDM but it won't have the same level of story immersion.
I think I will still like KDM more but this game is definitely tempting me to blow $400
Have both games and I can only see the white box coming off the shelf while the big black box gathers dust 😉
agreed
I stumbled on this game by sheer chance. I love KDM (have been playing a bit but never got too far). But I can agree, there is a definitive way to actually play and finish the game (i.e Do SA multiple times in a row to get a bunch of resources and get certain gear by LY X). What truly keeps me hooked is the atmosphere and how deadly it is.
How is the replayability in ATO? You talked about having to learn certain glyphs to figure out hidden quests etc. Is that a one off? As in if I got wiped and started over, could I simply do that 'hidden' quest.
Glad you liked it so much, my copy is stuck in Koeln, Germany. I am hoping I get before the year ends
Mine got stuck there. Should just be a week than it came all at once
All I'm thinking about now is the cash I can make from KDM resell of GC and Wave 4 over the course of the next few years.
Great stuff bud mine should be here in two days and man I can't wait!! I won't have time to even learn the game over the Christmas as il be working non stop outside of a two days but il be painting some of the minis one or two at least ☺️ I backed this just after it ended when the pledge manager opened back up first over two years ago. It just seemed so cool KDM meets Attack on Titan mixed in with a story campaign, exploring and upgrading systems. Come one what is not to love about that pitch ha so far it seems like everyone is happy about this and even loves it!! Hell let's be honest if you just wanted to have some battles with friends you could rig up a simple system to just do battles and basic upgrades if you really wanted to as well ha I heard Poots is angry about it (people making and finishing a massive game in two and a half year to three years) and people are still waiting how long for basic stuff from KDM. I actually cancelled my KDM core game as it was months over due, no communication at all, no answers and I am glad I did tbh hell I still have lots of cool KDM minis and even some smaller stuff like the white lion (cool models either way)
Have you seen shelfsides 3 hr review?
What!!! Liege is starting to love the massive plastic campaigns now, lol.
😱
Backing all-in but I think I would still prefer KDM, mainly due to emerging narrative vs just reading stories that were pre-written for me in the book.
I cannot freaking wait til mine arrives. If it's as good as that box is ugly, I am in for a real party 🎉
😂
Appreciated buddy! Your best video ever
Wow, thanks!
To be fair, ATO's 5-cycle is over $540 now, to get the COMPLETE thing, contrasted with $420 for KDM core (or $1400something to get all-current-stuff on KDM, or $870 to get KDM + GCE expansion, or... or... Lots of or. Just covering that 5 cycle vs KDCore isn't QUITE comparable. But the 3 cycle base game is comparable, and favors ATO)
That said, KDM's strength isn't a cheap price, but rather the premium(outdated) HIPS minis and the sandbox gameplay, and the gear-grid system. I agree with you that ATO is a better game, price vs price.
That's apples to oranges. The complete experience of KDM is well beyond $420 (they upped the price). The base core of ATO is $319 now, which is less than the $420 core. But yes, both core and expansions increased in price.
@@zenster1097 I listend the KD core as $420, yes, because that is the current price, and the "1400ish for current expansions" was with the new expansion price.
I loved the L2P but I found they started you in the kiddie pool and then through you into the deep end with starting Cycle 1. They go from just fists, the voyage being a straight line, to "do absolutely everything yourself and it's now more complicated!"
The Primordial movement and how crashing, knockdown, movement, and targeting work are very foreign to me and I struggle with how you manage your Titans positioning to not just always rush the Primordial, and then if you miss or wound it, it tramples you and crashes every other Titan along the way which knocks them down and essentially loses each Titan 2 full turns to stand up??
One's in a big black coffin box, the other is in a big white coffin box. Asides from that they seem pretty different.
Chris! Don't forget the pictomons!!
Have to agree after my way through cycle 1. Kingdom Death really seems somewhat juvenile in comparison - nice ideas, but not yet fully formed, not living up to their full potential. In ATO, even the beginner monsters already blow the ones from KDM out of the water - even the ones with direct comparisons available. ATO just feels like a more fully formed version of the idea.
Replacing KDM with this is an easy upgrade, I don't see KDM hitting my table again with this on my table.
I have to say I agree
@ Getting gotcha'd by the story (fire ship -> pyramid to write it in the most nonspoily way possible for those that didn't play yet) was pretty hilarious though. The game definitely has gotchas when it wants to.
That got a "no way they can't be serious" at our table.
@@fy8798 Serves you right for being mean to the Labyrinthians! :D
Im glad this one paid off and im eager to start it, now the question is, what to do with kingdoms forlorn? Is there space in a collection for both? One of the things that kind of push me away is the mobs, at some point i just started liking having less enmies with tons of difference mechanic (aka bosses) over several similar enemies with less variations aka mobs with different stats blocks. Plus kingdom all in feel a bit more expensive
Well, let me tell you that mobs in kf are just great. Not at all "just mobs", they are hard as fuck, and have key mechanics that makes them unique. And having both experiences in the same game is a blast. KF will be really a huge and impressive game.
I've got it but was procrastinating due to the sheer density of the game. Your review got me hyped again :)
Do you recommend reading the learn to play book before the rulebook?
Yes, definitely. it runs you through everything to start playing as you go
It just takes up too much space and too much manual admin playing solo. Make a digital version please lmao. Great game mechanics.
KDM still has a better and more unique aesthetic and that is the reason why I chose not to purchase this on top of the Gambler's Chest and Campaigns of Death being more promising.
Almost purchased KDM and 7th Citadel/Continent for overpriced after crowdfunding prices... so glad I did not since this clearly takes the place of those for me just on theme alone and if gameplay is this good then win/win/win!
Hoping this does more for me than oathsworn. With Frosthaven, Oath and ATO in my pipe (and Folklore on my shelf) - one had to go. I chose to purge Oath because it took up way too much space, I previewed the weapon upgrades and they felt higher damaging versions of their predecessor, and the combat wasn't enthralling me. I didn't see much to look forward to other than the next boss miniature. It felt like three boxes of plastic. What are your thoughts?
Different games imo. Oath has a nice narrated perk, its also much simpler. When looking for depth to gameplay that can be disappointing. Others who dont want to spend multiple 6 hr game sessions will find oathsworn easier to learn and stick with.
My copy is still stuck in Holland according to Fed Ex shipping, I am in the Us.
🥺
I love KDM (all time favourite). And I am really looking forward to playing ATO but I am a litte bit concered about the drauma cards killing you on the first strike. In KDM I feel that I can try to avoid sudden death in the first round by preparing appropriately. Are there ways to mitigate these drauma cards?
The Trauma cards are layered by type. I can't recall, but if you draw a Minor trauma, I don't recall any of them being able to kill you.
Once you draw major and grave trauma cards, there are chances but they often come with a final strike opportunity for the player.
Furthermore, there is an early piece of gear that allows you, once per fight, to draw a different trauma card. So there is some mitigation.
I'm in if they release it with a better box. I missed the campaign. I already have Sator box and the Ice Box... fool me twice shame on you, fool me thrice shame on me. Or better yet maybe I should get this game and store it with the Ice box and Sator on the same shelf and label it "Wall of Shame".
I opened the box and took the game out. Then I play the game. The box sits under the table…I suspect they had the same conversation when the Beatles released the White album. Haha
I can see the appeal but after playing the Tutorial I decided it is not for me. I find the decision space disproportionally small when compared against the dedication everything else requires: 4 titans always regardless of player count, lots of reading with small font and I'm not talking about the books, even when iconography is used it is just too small to see comfortably at a distance, physical upkeep on both modes of the game is a lot, combat token and card shuffling 'fiddlyness' (I personally do not like shuffling small decks of cards (6 for the Hekaton for example), dedicated space at home for a huge and long white box that is also very heavy. It is a lifestyle game than many who like this style of combat will love, I do not doubt it will become very popular, but just like Dice Throne, I went all in then played it and realized I was wrong to go against my instincts just because the bg world seems to love it.
With all that said, I think you definitely should tag this with spoilers, you keep saying "no spoilers" but then you instantly proceed to reveal minor spoilers and hints of things to come, even if it was an old prototype you are discussing, a lot of those elements probably carried over to the final product. I know I would have hated how much you let me know if I had not already decided to pass the game to someone else who will enjoy it. But that is me, I want to keep things secret if possible. I know that is not everybody but I am not alone so it always best to tread on the side of alerting for minor spoilers.
Thanks for the video! I was interested in your opinion about it now that I have played it. It helps me to know the bias/tastes of the reviewers I depend upon.
Ugh this late pledge pricing is causing me trouble. I just haven't been able to pull the trigger. Alex (BoardGameCo) seemed to assume they would just do another campaign if this is well received (presumably at more reasonable prices than the late pledge) but you would have to wait another 16-24 months or even more for such an event to occur and receive fulfillment? So is it worthy paying nearly double now what the campaign backers paid to get it now? That is a very difficult question and really serious FOMO. Perhaps best I just dig in and commit to playing games I've already bought and wait and see if another campaign is created. Same thing happened to me with Flamcraft and Massive Darkness. Tried my best to decide if I should back but backed out and it looks like they landed on the hot list. Choosing witch games to back isn't easy at all. I continue to be humbled trying to allocate my limited resources to the best games. Its just really hard to figure it out upfront and you are seriously punished by the economics if you don't go all-in with your leap of faith unless you are patient and the publishers give you access to everthing in a future campaign. Yes there are many publishers that have provided pathways to catch up but not all of them do.
You will never again get the game for the original campaign price of $129. This was more than a steal and a heavily subsidized price for all backers and early believers of the project. A much more reasonable price for this game was the actual late pledge price of $299, if you consider the sheer amount of material, miniatures and content. I also highly doubt that we will see a second print run anytime soon. More likely they will announce the big "Sins of Heracles" Expansion at the end of the year (with 12 more bosses to fight), which will probably be on KS sometime next year.
In this case I would say that Alex was the worst adviser you could have taken on this, as he just assumed that this will run its life cycle like most other games and was not aware of the different approach of ITU. I'm not saying that there will never be another print run but I surely don't expect another campaign for the core game anytime soon. Best you can do is either follow the updates from ITU or get a copy from the secondary market. Prices are actually not that bad at the moment. But I would expect them to go up over time.
You’re gonna have to bite the bullet if you want it. I missed the Kickstarter and it sucks when you see the price, but it’s just not something you can get anymore or ever again. If you don’t mind waiting a long time, back Kingdoms Forlorn now for a similar experience, but if you like the theme, buy ATO now. I did, haven’t looked back!
@@timcastle5441 Actually I don't think I actually like either Forlorn theme or this one. I had to remind myself that is why I skipped them in the first place. I'm really happy they have a hit on their hands. I love crowdfunding success stories and would be happy to play if invited to the table by someone else that likes the theme but I'll pass for my own collection. Enjoy!
@@timwanger4491 You were right about SOH! And I unfollowed Boardgameco for a reason..
Can we give this game a Evangelion skin? 😂
I always describe KDM as a Roguelike Campaign game. The emergent narrative makes it infinitely replay-able. (And the Strain system has essentially added an achievement system to the game.)
This seems more like a directed narrative?
It is, but other than the major milestones every campaign will go through half or less of the plot points, and each has multiple paths through it.
yes but no. if that makes sense. it’s there but doesnt force itself on you. but if you ignore it, bad stuff will happen.
So if I hated 7th continent and the exploration and literally everything about it, should I sell ATO or is that aspect of it less pertinent to the gameplay?
I also hated 7th continent. They don’t compare at all . Only that tiles look similar. There are no annoying things u need to collect or word puzzles. I can’t remember exactly but I tried to like 7th but gave up. This is a totally different animal
if it helps, I sold 7th continent after 1 play so we’re the same in that regard.
Aeon Trespass Odyssey = The KDM Killer
New Shiny Thing Syndrome. ATO may, someday, after a number of editions and rewrites, become a game that survives to still be played. But in the morass of boring, irrelevant and uninformed «choices», large amounts of words used to say nothing of any actual relevance to the game, and what I can only describe as «new gamemaster making things really frustrating while sure he’s being very smart», this game has been returned to its box, where it will stay. KDM will kill you. And you will *care*. ATO will give you a new shiny titan-slave and you will ignore its utterly abysmal special rules because it will be dead soon anyway. As for the mnemos cards «building a story» for the character, this is the only point in the game where the words manage both to be few and (still) to say nothing. Meh? Meh. Sorry. If you have it and you’re having fun, carry on. Badwrongfun is not a thing. But as a KDM killer… No.
Killed kdm for me in a lot of ways. While sinilar genre both very different. This is a kdm killer for people who werent happy with kdms emegent narrative and other things. Pther people that loved kdm to begin with likely wont be happy with choices ato made. Both games can be great and scratch different itches. Im not getting rid of kdm anytime soon nor my gamblers chest. I also haven't played either since i received ato.
@@adam551982 I think it depends on why you play the game. If you're after a narrative or boss battler experience ATO all day. But the strength of KDM is in the settlement/civ building side of it. Name any other game you finish the prologue and then have to name 10+ new characters, track their lives for 30 (lantern) years, keep track of who lost an arm or leg, who had their spine crushed, who has kids with who. That side of KDM makes you appreciate those survivors each time you send them on a hunt. That experience is way more impressive than just a huge narrative you play through. To me, KDM is a civ game where the monsters are just really fucking hard to gather resources.
Oh great, another KS game that I didn’t back that’s going to be discussed and gushed about ad nauseam.🤮🙄
(I admit, I’m a touch envious 😜)
If money isn't an issue you can just buy a copy off ebay then wait for pledge manger to open for the expansions. Like do a little bit of research before complaining there is usually a way to still get a game as long as you can spend some extra.
@@Urek968 Thanks for missing the point and offering irrelevant advice. 🤦♂️🤣
@@BayonetRecon thanks for posting a completely irrelevant comment in the first place 👍
@@timwanger4491 My apologies. I like watching videos on this channel and posting sarcastic comments sometimes. I should have realized anything less than outright positive comments would trigger the fan boys of this newly crowned king of hotness. I’m sorry I dared tarnish the gate to Hypernia.
pledge manager re-opened today….🤫
Great that you like it, but in my opinion this game is too fiddly, a million rules and you constantly feel like you forgot something.. KDM is streamlined against this and that says a lot. Also the monsters dont change that much on the different levels, you are always using the same decks. I sold my copy and will stick to KDM
Amadeus how could you have possibly played ATO enough to know what the game has to offer 30 hrs in to it? BTW I own KDM, DK, Gorm and Sunstalker and have Campaigns of Death and the Gamblers Chest coming. I am a big KDM fan, but ATO looks to offer so much more. I love that stories are being told instead of just a blurb which KDM generally does. The opening story of KDM is like 8 sentences. To me, not having a story is my biggest disappointment with KDM. I am not sure I'll be keeping my Cod or GC when I receive it. Granted I waited so damn long for it, it will be hard to sell it, but while KDM is a fun boss battler, and imo it's more fun with friends, I want a game that tells me a better story I can get involved in and excited for what's next. Instead of just, did I beat this monster/nemesis? Okay, back to strategizing over what to build with what resources I have.
Hekaton level 2 versus 1 changes more than White Lion level 3 versus White Lion 1. Changing enemies via traits, like ATO does it, is ultimately a better idea, because KDMs way of doing it with extra cards only works when you actually draw them AND get sufficiently different ones. You actually have to draw the cards to see a difference, and I can tell you that after a number of KDM campaigns, only few monsters actually feel different at higher levels as a result.
Really, other than the dung beetle knight, most don't even change THAT much.
@@fy8798 While I do agree with you on the whole, you got to admit that the KDM system of leveling up enemies via traits is actually very much the same. White Lion level 1 to 3 gains Cunning, Merciless and Indomitable in addition to +2 accuracy, +1 luck, +2 movement, +6 toughness, +2 speed, +2 damage. And then the additional Basic, Advanced and Legendary Cards (21 in total, whereas AT:O "only" has 18 different ones.
Once the hype calms down a bit, I'm sure there will be more people selling their copies of ATO and keeping KDM.. happened with Oathsworn, after all.. ;)
Poots? Is it you? 🤣