I test drove the R12 Ninet last Friday about two hours. Yes, It's a well made one. All I can say is that if you currently have a Speed Twin or R nineT, there is absolutely no need to spend that much money on a replacement.
I have owned both - R9T and Speed Twin 1200. I would say the Triumph is smoother, faster, better to manage in the city, lighter, easier to manoeuvre and more fun. The R9T looks cooler (subjective) but has a clunky gearbox, rocks from side to side on pull away. The cylinder heads also get in the way a lot of the time and I caught my shins on them when trying to foot paddle the bike around. I was also paranoid about dropping the bike and damaging them.... Also, with the right exhaust ( i had a Motone) the Speed Twin sounds better too.
I like the looks of the BMW, but nothing compares to the simple and ultra clean lines of the Triumph Speed Twin (or Street Twin). It 's so clean and tidy, that makes you wonder why other manufacturers have bike 's components sticking out all over the place!
I was choosing between Triumph Speed Twin 1200 and R9T Scrambled and chose a BMW. Speed Twin is a tiny little bike and being 6'2 I looked at it like I was riding on a dog 😂 My R9T Scrambler gives an amazing rough and real motoring feel. It wobbles and vibrates and smells hot oil and is so authentic. A tonne of power and fun! Love it!
I may be in the minority, but I have a 2013 BMW R1200R with panniers and over the years, with all the new model upgrades and tech additions, I still see no reason to buy a new bike. Even the bike shows appear to be repetitive and more marketing hype than substance. Sorry manufacturers, but something seems to be missing.
I had an R1200R that I replaced with a R1250R and an original RnineT. All fantastic bikes but the best by far, was the 1250R with a load of extras it could do everything brilliantly
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As a long time R9T owner, the speed twin is hard to beat. The character of an air cooled boxer is undeniable, but so is the value of a speed twin. Maybe the price of the R12 bikes wouldn’t be so high if bmw didn’t have to recoup the R&D/production cost of the R18 that they never should have built
I went with a Triumph and don't regret it. Cheaper, more modifications and (in my opinion) looks better. For example - I bought a 22' model Street Twin 900cc (no, not the 1200 but still) used for $7,000 and have put $3k in mods on it to have a truly customized 1 off bike that is 'mine' and I'm nowhere near the stock base price of the R9t. I went with the Street Twin 900cc because it's my first bike and was right in my price range but you could find a used 22' or 23' Speed Twin for roughly that amount and put a few thousand into it and have a wonderful custom bike and be nowhere near that 18k mark. That's what is holding the BMWs back in my opinion. what would be closer to $19,500 usd is CRAZY money to me for that bike.
I've test riddent the R12 ninet twice now. And I really did want to love everything about it. But, doing a lot of city riding, I would say that first and second gear are too on/off and the clutch is stiff. Otherwise, once in third and above it comes into its own and is lovely. But I the still-rustic low gears and changes are off-putting for commuters in big cities.
The one thing I found between my BMW and Triumph is that the Triumph is so easy to work on. When I added heated grips I could get the kit from Triumph and fit is my self and it fully integrated into the screen. Moving to LED indecators, just a few clicks and it was done. The BMW was not setup to be worked on at home.
I'm a fan of hi-fi audio, Especially I like British audio (Tannoy, Quad, Rogers, Mullad ~~etc) My favorite air plane is also Spitfire and band is Beatles most ever According to my personal preferences, In conclusion I like the color of British culture better than German So Triumph is my favorite motorcycle brand ~~! I like it
Having trialed both of these I bought .....a Moto Guzzi v7 stone special edition. Only 66 bhp but a bit of a combination of these two. Fine with a pillion too.
These are the two bikes I compared and I ended up going with the Triumph because of all the reasons you outlined including the polarizing boxter engine look. The BMW is nice but specd out it was 4-5 grand more.
Nice video. 2020 speed twin owner here. Just ride both before you decide. Both are great, it boils down to personal taste ! For me , first gen speed twin with Vance & Hines and bitubo suspension forward and rear is a combination that is difficult to beat :)
A few years ago, I testrode both. And I went with the BMW. Today I would probably go with the Triumph. Why? Well, I've had the BMW! A good bike, indeed. But the Triumph engine looks so much better! Well, the whole bike looks actually better. And here in Denmark a whole lot cheaper. Thank you mr Bob!
Make sure you test ride them and for as long as possible. Heat transferred to rider and stuttering, jerky throttle on Bonnies are real deal breakers for me. One month in with my new R9T and I couldn’t be happier.
Not suffered 'Jerky throttle' myself. You can fit throttle spacers to remove any slack in the throttle grip mechanism if you find this a problem. Every Euro5 bike I've ridden gets hot, I guess they run pretty lean to get through emissions legislation. Fit and finish on the Triumph is way above competitors in my opinion.
@@dt6949 Weird. My EU Euro5 bike is absolutely fine, no stuttering or anything. Maybe you have poor fuel quality or something, my bike is smooth as silk in all 3 rider modes.
I laughed a little bit when he said that the BMW would be better for carrying a passenger. I invite you to sit on it and have someone take a picture of what remains of the seat behind you. There’s almost nothing left to sit on.
Oooh Bob, what a choice. I'm a self confessed Triumph fanboi, having owned 5, including one 865cc Bonnie. BUT I currently own a 1250GS and have fallen in love with the boxer twin. I think that... if cash wasn't an issue, the Option 719 R12NineT would be in my driveway. I've even toyed with trading the GS in on one. But they're about $32k here in Australia and that's a lot of money - even if someone else was paying. Give me the Speed Twin and a couple of grand to spend at British Customs and I'd be a very happy man. See. Very hard to chose.
We have the Breitling Speed Twin, with the Olins suspension, and a 100th Anniversary RnineT. For us, they are both great bikes, and very hard to nit-pick between the two. My suggestion is get one of each 🤪. You won't e disappointed. Love the BeeLine too. Great job on the review,.
Current triumph owner, I am so drawn to the r12 nine t. I'd have it either in black with the cockpit fairing and the tail hump, or the option 719. But forget the BMW, if the XSR 900 GP was available here, that is what I would get.
Excellent match up, it seems to be a choice of personal preference and how the bike fits you….of course the price always plays a role. Both are worth the money.
The R 12 Nine T comes standard with heated grips and the cruise control is in my opinion very good. The cruise control on the Triumph is rudimentary. The brakes are good on both models but slightly better on the speed twin, not for a large margin though. The looks are nice on both bikes. The R12 nineT has lot of new features concerning the modernization of the bike . The gearbox is smoother now and the quick shifter is flawless. On the speed twin there is no quick shifter option. On the R 12 Nine T the ignition is Keyless, and on the Triumph this is not even offered has an option ( I personally find the keyless on these retro looking bikes, not a plus but a minus). 110 bhp against 98,6 bhp is a big sensible difference. It’s not something to pay less consideration. On the BMW we have no chain maintenance and at night front lights are excellent. on the Triumph speed twin the gas tank is full capacity 14,5L, on the R12 Nine T is of 16 L and the ranges are respectively 286 kms and 353kms per gas tank. The price is different but what we get from both bikes is something very different too. If we were talking about the Thruxton (that Triumph discontinued the production…), maybe we could be doing a more even comparison.
The speed twin sounds awesome. Especially with some decent pipes on it but personally I'd go for the BMW. They're just a more interesting bike all round. However I have a ducati scrambler 1100 and wouldn't swap it for either!!
Both are on the top of my list. For a while it was the dream of owning the r129t in that green color, but stealth 1200ST won. I will go for that one...
How can that be? No fuel gauge on a 2024 BMW? I have a 2020 Triumph Bonneville T100 (900cc) and I love having a fuel gauge. And sorry MotoBob, the Speed Twin sounds infinitely better than the R12 which is weedy in comparison like all RNine Ts I’ve heard. As for the boxer engine…it’s a crazy concept IMHO for all the reasons others have stated. Initially I really liked the look of the R12 - but then it turned out it’s £14.5 grand versus £12 for the Speed Twin. And the Triumph is better for low-down torque and real life performance generally. A pair of better shocks can be bought if you really feel the need. I’d buy the Speed Twin over the R12 any day.
Considering the price difference and if you were in the market for either. I'd still get the Triumph, pay a bit extra for custom suspension components and brake upgrades. This would still be cheaper than 18K and I'd have the best of both worlds.
Would go with the R12, it wins on driveline, tech and I think the rear suspension on the Triumph looks wierd and the samme goes for the instrument cluster.
Wondering if Triumph will make updates to it for 2025 to stay competitive. Yet, Speed twin takes my vote regardless. It feels special. And sounds wonderful.
I'm always worried that someone will review these 2 bikes and I find out I've got the wrong one as I quite like the BMW. However your review I think was pretty fair on this occasion and I'm quite happy with my Speed Twin. For now. I think.
Sound. The BMW has a 360 degree crank and sounds the same as say a 1974 model. (more or less) A 1974 Norton commando also has a 360 degree crank and sounds completely different. The Triumph with its 270 degree crank sounds like a 90 degree V twin. So whats it down to. Bore and stroke ratio? It would be more "retro" if Triumph had gone with a 360 degree crank for there modern version. The 270 has a counter balance shaft. (I think) A 360 with a counter balance shaft could be just as smooth. I wonder how much the "sound" is a purchasing factor.
As for the styling, I like them both equally, for different reasons. Besides that, unless we are talking about some special, limited edition, handmade painting, I think it is plain robbery to charge extra for just a different color!
Difficult for me, cause I’m a Boxer-fan, on the other hand since years have a look at the SpeedTwin … Your result isn’t mine: I would choose the SpeedTwin for a better classic look, this wonderful Bonneville motor & the price ❤ (cause I drive a 2012-GS at the moment, which is a keeper 😜🤷🏻♂️). But still lots of money for a second bike 🙄, anyway: maybe a used one. Thx 🙏🏻
I have a 2020 Speed, by far take it over the beemer. It’s so much cleaner to look at. As a designer I don’t like al the shapes over the BMW, round here, curve there, just to much going on. Took the 2020 Speed over a new one because a.) paintscheme and b.) suspension balance
I so wish Triumph would do a Speed Twin RS with decent suspension a bit of an engine tune, then it would be the twin all day, but the 12R9T with full spec in brushed ally and red frame looks proper tasty…. But is it 18.5k tasty, not sure 🤔
A fuel gauge would be nice, but I just zero the trip on my R Nine T when I fuel up and know from experience that I will get around 240km before the fuel light comes on, so no issue at all.
Well the R1250R isn’t a retro but at a basic price of £12,330 it’s much better value compared to the R12 nineT and performance wise it betters both bikes here. Like others have already commented I’ll be sticking with my old non ride by wire R nineT 🇬🇧
@@stewy62 I see your point but, aren’t all Boxers (especially the dry clutch versions) retro by default? The R1250R strikes me as a retro wannabe, half NASA, half Massey-Ferguson and marketed by virtue of “character”?
@@UncleWally3 Everyone has a different opinion of what a retro is, I’ve had discussions here with people who think a retro can’t have a single sided swinging arm, but the same people seem happy to have upside down forks because they are on a Triumph or Norton. Personally I think BMW have engineered the character out of their liquid cooled shiftcam Boxers which are not retro in the slightest. And MotoBob has never included any liquid cooled Boxers in his Retro videos.
I pick the Triumph all day long. For the price and the look. I think all BMW are ridicilous pricey from the start and then all the extra in their package. Same strategy in the BMW cars. The only thing i cant get around is the breakes on the Triumph. I testrode a demo bike and didnt like them at all. Maybe it was just that bike. Have to try another one.
No comparison looks and sound speed twin; 1000x better looking and sound. You spend that extra money on triumph all benefit of bmw go away. Nitron shocks you have carver of a bike that looks retro part.
Love the style of both of these bikes, but the chain drive is a deal a killer for me. I’ve been riding Moto guzzi bikes for a while and after experiencing shaft drive, it’s VERY hard to ever go back to anything else. Something very liberating about just getting in your bike and spending your time riding than sitting around fiddling with chain tension, cleaning waxing, etc. The real shame here, though, js BMW charging that much for the R12/t. A few options added that should be standard and the price is astronomical. The bike isn’t THAT good for the price.
I had an s1000rr, a zx14 and a rockster all at the same time. Surprisingly to me, the rockster got the most attention. Wasn't the fastest by far and a bit quirky but still an overall great bike. I sold it to a very happy buyer 3 years ago and I occasionally regret it. I would really like to get modern version of that bike, but in that $ range there are infinitely better choices. Triumph all day, then spend $1500 or so customizing/upgrading it. It'd still be a much better buy than the bmw. Or just get a used r9t. Tonsa of em out there w super low miles here in merica'
The Triumph looks nicer, has better finish and detail. The BMW will always look messy with that Boxer engine. But pays your money and makes your choice.
BOTH twin cylinder does cry and whine in high revs and high gear.. Sounds like a loan mower, though. I personally like a whining, screaming and crying sound bike.
@@churchofbrap876 the bmw peaks higher sure but it has loads of torque through the entire rev range. Probably near the Triumph at 4k rpm as well. Anyway, both are great bikes and have ample torque imo
Tough one. Love the BMW engine but as a tall rider it feels small. Triumph looks better from a distance but the engine case is so ugly. For me the best looking retro by far is the Kawasaki z900RS. But that's really a sports bike and is not relaxing to ride.
You could get properly sorted suspension on the Triumph and still have cash left over compared with the BMW. All the extra tech is just B.S. in my opinion, and irrelevant to the riding experience (ABS excepted), so that would be a 0-0 draw. Less tech and cheaper bikes please! Also I'm not sure there's anything less "special" than the sound of a boxer twin, what with all the GSs around. :) Great vid though.
I'm biased because I have the R9T, a head turning city bike. Am also blessed with a Multistrada for touring. I tell you, not having to jack with a chain drive makes life so much easier. Akin to having a sweet vrs bitchy wife. Makes life so much easier....no matter the price.
The Speed Twin not having cruise control, not even as an option, is absolutely idiotic, especially when Triumph already developed the system for the T120 and the Bobber (on TbW bikes that thing is literally 3 lines of code). Hence, R12 NineT.
Speed Twin all the way. Can’t we all just admit the boxer engine looks weird. It sticks out like a sore thumb and ruins the look on any bike. Also BMW lacks soul because they have no character. Triumph nails fit and finish better than anyone except maybe Ducati. I predict an update to the 2025 Speed Twin. You heard it here first 😊
Each to their own, but I love the look and feel of the air/oil cooled boxer engines (not so much the water-cooled ones though) and the one on my R Nine T sounds fantastic.
Secondhand R9T for me. Character, great looks and shaft drive at potentially a third of the price of that test bike. I do like the look of the Triumph but their terrible dealers put me off.
I have a Speed Twin 900 but really want to try a Moto Guzzi v7, I just don't have a dealership anywhere close and have never seen a used one for sale in my area. Maybe someday.
I test drove the R12 Ninet last Friday about two hours. Yes, It's a well made one.
All I can say is that if you currently have a Speed Twin or R nineT, there is absolutely no need to spend that much money on a replacement.
what if you can afford it...
I have owned both - R9T and Speed Twin 1200. I would say the Triumph is smoother, faster, better to manage in the city, lighter, easier to manoeuvre and more fun. The R9T looks cooler (subjective) but has a clunky gearbox, rocks from side to side on pull away. The cylinder heads also get in the way a lot of the time and I caught my shins on them when trying to foot paddle the bike around. I was also paranoid about dropping the bike and damaging them.... Also, with the right exhaust ( i had a Motone) the Speed Twin sounds better too.
I can only dream of even ever riding one, let alone owning one. But I'd go for the Triumph every time. Those Cylinder heads scare me to death.
@@y0u5uf First thing I put on the R9T was SW Motech engine guards! Still paranoid about dropping and scratching them.
I have also owned both and I totally agree with everything you said 👍
Haven’t ridden either but the BMW looks so much better
I like the looks of the BMW, but nothing compares to the simple and ultra clean lines of the Triumph Speed Twin (or Street Twin). It 's so clean and tidy, that makes you wonder why other manufacturers have bike 's components sticking out all over the place!
I was choosing between Triumph Speed Twin 1200 and R9T Scrambled and chose a BMW. Speed Twin is a tiny little bike and being 6'2 I looked at it like I was riding on a dog 😂 My R9T Scrambler gives an amazing rough and real motoring feel. It wobbles and vibrates and smells hot oil and is so authentic. A tonne of power and fun! Love it!
I love my R9T Scrambler. I’d never trade. I had a 800 XRx once. There’s no comparison! 🏍️💨🏁🇩🇪
I may be in the minority, but I have a 2013 BMW R1200R with panniers and over the years, with all the new model upgrades and tech additions, I still see no reason to buy a new bike. Even the bike shows appear to be repetitive and more marketing hype than substance. Sorry manufacturers, but something seems to be missing.
I had an R1200R that I replaced with a R1250R and an original RnineT. All fantastic bikes but the best by far, was the 1250R with a load of extras it could do everything brilliantly
Good call. I had this model from new, though eventually sold for a RS. These latest models are no better at all.
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The R1200 is arguably the best engine BMW ever made. I’ve owned several in the GS platform. Now I love my R9T. ♥️🏍️💨🏁
I've had the R1200R since 2011. For some reason it is very unpopular in the UK but sought after in continental Europe.
As a long time R9T owner, the speed twin is hard to beat. The character of an air cooled boxer is undeniable, but so is the value of a speed twin. Maybe the price of the R12 bikes wouldn’t be so high if bmw didn’t have to recoup the R&D/production cost of the R18 that they never should have built
and... here comes the R20 concept!
They should offer wired spoke wheels on speed twin.
I went with a Triumph and don't regret it. Cheaper, more modifications and (in my opinion) looks better.
For example - I bought a 22' model Street Twin 900cc (no, not the 1200 but still) used for $7,000 and have put $3k in mods on it to have a truly customized 1 off bike that is 'mine' and I'm nowhere near the stock base price of the R9t. I went with the Street Twin 900cc because it's my first bike and was right in my price range but you could find a used 22' or 23' Speed Twin for roughly that amount and put a few thousand into it and have a wonderful custom bike and be nowhere near that 18k mark. That's what is holding the BMWs back in my opinion.
what would be closer to $19,500 usd is CRAZY money to me for that bike.
I have the Speed Twin. Always think that boxer engine looks weird. Just can’t get past that.
I've test riddent the R12 ninet twice now. And I really did want to love everything about it. But, doing a lot of city riding, I would say that first and second gear are too on/off and the clutch is stiff. Otherwise, once in third and above it comes into its own and is lovely. But I the still-rustic low gears and changes are off-putting for commuters in big cities.
I ended up buying one and love it! Very addictive torque machine. Beautiful to boot.!
I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs. The R9T is too small for me, so the choice here, for me, is the Speed Twin.
I bought the Triumph…and love it!!
The one thing I found between my BMW and Triumph is that the Triumph is so easy to work on. When I added heated grips I could get the kit from Triumph and fit is my self and it fully integrated into the screen. Moving to LED indecators, just a few clicks and it was done. The BMW was not setup to be worked on at home.
I'm a fan of hi-fi audio, Especially I like British audio (Tannoy, Quad, Rogers, Mullad ~~etc)
My favorite air plane is also Spitfire and band is Beatles most ever
According to my personal preferences,
In conclusion I like the color of British culture better than German
So
Triumph is my favorite motorcycle brand ~~!
I like it
Fellow HiFi fan here. Just picked up a pair of Mission 770 speakers and they are a blast
@@keithchelini5776 Good choice~~!!
I've 751 speakers still 🙂
Ha,ha! you got me! as an Triumph Speed Twin 1200 owner, I can't agree more!
Having trialed both of these I bought .....a Moto Guzzi v7 stone special edition. Only 66 bhp but a bit of a combination of these two. Fine with a pillion too.
You can’t beat the Guzzi exhaust note either. Sounds like the heavens opened up and the angels are signing
These are the two bikes I compared and I ended up going with the Triumph because of all the reasons you outlined including the polarizing boxter engine look. The BMW is nice but specd out it was 4-5 grand more.
Nice video. 2020 speed twin owner here. Just ride both before you decide. Both are great, it boils down to personal taste ! For me , first gen speed twin with Vance & Hines and bitubo suspension forward and rear is a combination that is difficult to beat :)
My speed twin is currently dead due to a failed abs modulator - bike is 2 yr and 7 months old - new part is about 20% the value of the bike @motobob
I’d have thought you’d compare the BMW to the Thruxton which would be a closer comparison
A few years ago, I testrode both. And I went with the BMW. Today I would probably go with the Triumph. Why? Well, I've had the BMW!
A good bike, indeed. But the Triumph engine looks so much better! Well, the whole bike looks actually better. And here in Denmark a whole lot cheaper.
Thank you mr Bob!
Make sure you test ride them and for as long as possible. Heat transferred to rider and stuttering, jerky throttle on Bonnies are real deal breakers for me. One month in with my new R9T and I couldn’t be happier.
Not suffered 'Jerky throttle' myself. You can fit throttle spacers to remove any slack in the throttle grip mechanism if you find this a problem. Every Euro5 bike I've ridden gets hot, I guess they run pretty lean to get through emissions legislation.
Fit and finish on the Triumph is way above competitors in my opinion.
@@dt6949 Weird. My EU Euro5 bike is absolutely fine, no stuttering or anything. Maybe you have poor fuel quality or something, my bike is smooth as silk in all 3 rider modes.
I'd pick a low milage cable throttled s'hand 2019 BMW RnineT for £9k
I laughed a little bit when he said that the BMW would be better for carrying a passenger. I invite you to sit on it and have someone take a picture of what remains of the seat behind you. There’s almost nothing left to sit on.
He's talking about the R12ninet not outgoing rninet
Funny thing is am 45yrs old,cant ride a bicycle but i love motorbikes with a passion!😂
Time to pickup one man
Why didn’t you compare the BMW with the 2024 ST 1200 with its updated engine adding more HP Ect.
Oooh Bob, what a choice. I'm a self confessed Triumph fanboi, having owned 5, including one 865cc Bonnie. BUT I currently own a 1250GS and have fallen in love with the boxer twin.
I think that... if cash wasn't an issue, the Option 719 R12NineT would be in my driveway. I've even toyed with trading the GS in on one. But they're about $32k here in Australia and that's a lot of money - even if someone else was paying.
Give me the Speed Twin and a couple of grand to spend at British Customs and I'd be a very happy man. See. Very hard to chose.
We have the Breitling Speed Twin, with the Olins suspension, and a 100th Anniversary RnineT. For us, they are both great bikes, and very hard to nit-pick between the two. My suggestion is get one of each 🤪. You won't e disappointed. Love the BeeLine too. Great job on the review,.
I like BMW Motorrads as well because their look and style but overpriced. That is why this battle had been won by Triumph on my side.
Current triumph owner, I am so drawn to the r12 nine t. I'd have it either in black with the cockpit fairing and the tail hump, or the option 719. But forget the BMW, if the XSR 900 GP was available here, that is what I would get.
Excellent match up, it seems to be a choice of personal preference and how the bike fits you….of course the price always plays a role.
Both are worth the money.
The R 12 Nine T comes standard with heated grips and the cruise control is in my opinion very good. The cruise control on the Triumph is rudimentary. The brakes are good on both models but slightly better on the speed twin, not for a large margin though. The looks are nice on both bikes. The R12 nineT has lot of new features concerning the modernization of the bike . The gearbox is smoother now and the quick shifter is flawless. On the speed twin there is no quick shifter option. On the R 12 Nine T the ignition is Keyless, and on the Triumph this is not even offered has an option ( I personally find the keyless on these retro looking bikes, not a plus but a minus). 110 bhp against 98,6 bhp is a big sensible difference. It’s not something to pay less consideration. On the BMW we have no chain maintenance and at night front lights are excellent. on the Triumph speed twin the gas tank is full capacity 14,5L, on the R12 Nine T is of 16 L and the ranges are respectively 286 kms and 353kms per gas tank.
The price is different but what we get from both bikes is something very different too. If we were talking about the Thruxton (that Triumph discontinued the production…), maybe we could be doing a more even comparison.
Thanks motobob. Exac6what i been looking for for the last three weeks. Test drive the bmw yesterday.
The speed twin sounds awesome. Especially with some decent pipes on it but personally I'd go for the BMW. They're just a more interesting bike all round. However I have a ducati scrambler 1100 and wouldn't swap it for either!!
Both are on the top of my list. For a while it was the dream of owning the r129t in that green color, but stealth 1200ST won. I will go for that one...
I ride a 2023 RNineT and love it.
You gave the BMW the nod on tec...Yet It still docent have a gas gauge = deal breaker , Speed twin for me . Great video mate .
How can that be? No fuel gauge on a 2024 BMW? I have a 2020 Triumph Bonneville T100 (900cc) and I love having a fuel gauge. And sorry MotoBob, the Speed Twin sounds infinitely better than the R12 which is weedy in comparison like all RNine Ts I’ve heard. As for the boxer engine…it’s a crazy concept IMHO for all the reasons others have stated.
Initially I really liked the look of the R12 - but then it turned out it’s £14.5 grand versus £12 for the Speed Twin. And the Triumph is better for low-down torque and real life performance generally. A pair of better shocks can be bought if you really feel the need. I’d buy the Speed Twin over the R12 any day.
Very fair comparison. I like both very much but if I were spending my own money the sale would go to Triumph.
I had a Rninet 19 model, lovely bike to ride however no fuel gauge which you skipped in the technology bit, that is a big massive huge bugbear
You forgot to mention an important difference which makes handling of SpeedTwin more nimble - rear tyre is 160 on SpeedTwin VS 180 on R12.
Considering the price difference and if you were in the market for either. I'd still get the Triumph, pay a bit extra for custom suspension components and brake upgrades. This would still be cheaper than 18K and I'd have the best of both worlds.
Would go with the R12, it wins on driveline, tech and I think the rear suspension on the Triumph looks wierd and the samme goes for the instrument cluster.
I’d choose the Triumph because of the price.
Wondering if Triumph will make updates to it for 2025 to stay competitive. Yet, Speed twin takes my vote regardless. It feels special. And sounds wonderful.
such R12 nineT is a bike for years and a low depreciation , I like take the NineT ,, I have a R1200GS with the same engine
The tank looks like it took its design cue from the BSA B25 Starfire.
I'm always worried that someone will review these 2 bikes and I find out I've got the wrong one as I quite like the BMW. However your review I think was pretty fair on this occasion and I'm quite happy with my Speed Twin. For now. I think.
So why not compare it to the Thruxton?
I’ll have the R129T, with trade clocks, cheers.
After owning a new, late model Triumph and riding a newer 1250GSA I would buy the Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki. Pretty much anything else except for a KTM.
R12 a way nicer bike, but the price difference doesn’t really make comparisons valid.
Sound. The BMW has a 360 degree crank and sounds the same as say a 1974 model. (more or less) A 1974 Norton commando also has a 360 degree crank and sounds completely different. The Triumph with its 270 degree crank sounds like a 90 degree V twin. So whats it down to. Bore and stroke ratio? It would be more "retro" if Triumph had gone with a 360 degree crank for there modern version. The 270 has a counter balance shaft. (I think) A 360 with a counter balance shaft could be just as smooth. I wonder how much the "sound" is a purchasing factor.
As for the styling, I like them both equally, for different reasons. Besides that, unless we are talking about some special, limited edition, handmade painting, I think it is plain robbery to charge extra for just a different color!
Get the speed twin and spend £3k in upgrades, especially adjustable suspension and the rest in accessories.
Difficult for me, cause I’m a Boxer-fan, on the other hand since years have a look at the SpeedTwin …
Your result isn’t mine: I would choose the SpeedTwin for a better classic look, this wonderful Bonneville motor & the price ❤ (cause I drive a 2012-GS at the moment, which is a keeper 😜🤷🏻♂️). But still lots of money for a second bike 🙄, anyway: maybe a used one. Thx 🙏🏻
I have a 2020 Speed, by far take it over the beemer. It’s so much cleaner to look at. As a designer I don’t like al the shapes over the BMW, round here, curve there, just to much going on. Took the 2020 Speed over a new one because a.) paintscheme and b.) suspension balance
I so wish Triumph would do a Speed Twin RS with decent suspension a bit of an engine tune, then it would be the twin all day, but the 12R9T with full spec in brushed ally and red frame looks proper tasty…. But is it 18.5k tasty, not sure 🤔
boxer please. Great job
R12 all the way
There is another huge caveat… The RNineT doesn’t have a flippin’ fuel gauge.
I've owned 29 different bikes and not a single one has had a fuel gauge, total non issue for many people.
A fuel gauge would be nice, but I just zero the trip on my R Nine T when I fuel up and know from experience that I will get around 240km before the fuel light comes on, so no issue at all.
As I can’t afford either one i will go for the top of the range BMW!!
Speed Twin anytime: Bmw sounds boring, is havier, doesn’t look as sharp as the Speed and is soooo much more expensive…
Cheers
If money was no object I'll pick the BMW
No software updates on the Speed Twin. And I'm sure cheaper to maintain.
What about the riding comfort?
Performance wise, isn’t the R1250R the direct competitor of the Speed Twin 1200?
Well the R1250R isn’t a retro but at a basic price of £12,330 it’s much better value compared to the R12 nineT and performance wise it betters both bikes here. Like others have already commented I’ll be sticking with my old non ride by wire R nineT 🇬🇧
@@stewy62 I see your point but, aren’t all Boxers (especially the dry clutch versions) retro by default? The R1250R strikes me as a retro wannabe, half NASA, half Massey-Ferguson and marketed by virtue of “character”?
@@UncleWally3 Everyone has a different opinion of what a retro is, I’ve had discussions here with people who think a retro can’t have a single sided swinging arm, but the same people seem happy to have upside down forks because they are on a Triumph or Norton.
Personally I think BMW have engineered the character out of their liquid cooled shiftcam Boxers which are not retro in the slightest. And MotoBob has never included any liquid cooled Boxers in his Retro videos.
For me is R12 nineT on the looks boxer engine looks great
Both are the same price for me, I wanted the Twin Speed 900cc but its €11.000 and that kind of pissed me off a bit
I pick the Triumph all day long. For the price and the look. I think all BMW are ridicilous pricey from the start and then all the extra in their package. Same strategy in the BMW cars. The only thing i cant get around is the breakes on the Triumph. I testrode a demo bike and didnt like them at all. Maybe it was just that bike. Have to try another one.
No comparison looks and sound speed twin; 1000x better looking and sound. You spend that extra money on triumph all benefit of bmw go away. Nitron shocks you have carver of a bike that looks retro part.
Love the style of both of these bikes, but the chain drive is a deal a killer for me. I’ve been riding Moto guzzi bikes for a while and after experiencing shaft drive, it’s VERY hard to ever go back to anything else. Something very liberating about just getting in your bike and spending your time riding than sitting around fiddling with chain tension, cleaning waxing, etc. The real shame here, though, js BMW charging that much for the R12/t. A few options added that should be standard and the price is astronomical. The bike isn’t THAT good for the price.
Another option - Speed Twin or 2nd hand R Nine T?
I have a speed twin 1200. Love the BMW through… but would stick to British beauties! Does the Job with extra miles!
I had an s1000rr, a zx14 and a rockster all at the same time. Surprisingly to me, the rockster got the most attention. Wasn't the fastest by far and a bit quirky but still an overall great bike. I sold it to a very happy buyer 3 years ago and I occasionally regret it. I would really like to get modern version of that bike, but in that $ range there are infinitely better choices. Triumph all day, then spend $1500 or so customizing/upgrading it. It'd still be a much better buy than the bmw. Or just get a used r9t. Tonsa of em out there w super low miles here in merica'
The number of used R9Ts on the used market is telling, isn't it?
I’m might trade my Thruxton R for the new Speed Twin RS. Won’t consider the retro BMW as I also have the R1300GS Triple Black I the garage.
The Triumph looks nicer, has better finish and detail. The BMW will always look messy with that Boxer engine. But pays your money and makes your choice.
BOTH twin cylinder does cry and whine in high revs and high gear.. Sounds like a loan mower, though. I personally like a whining, screaming and crying sound bike.
I choose moto guzzi V7
Always a secret option C
😂
The price difference narrows once you upgrade the suspension
When are you posting the R12 review?
Do the R12 vs the Speedmaster?!
Can't beat the torque of the Speed Twin!
And yet…the BMW does 🙃
@@johnlaw5762Speed Twin peak torque is about 2000 rpm lower. Love that, it's a key difference.
@@churchofbrap876 the bmw peaks higher sure but it has loads of torque through the entire rev range. Probably near the Triumph at 4k rpm as well. Anyway, both are great bikes and have ample torque imo
Tough one. Love the BMW engine but as a tall rider it feels small. Triumph looks better from a distance but the engine case is so ugly. For me the best looking retro by far is the Kawasaki z900RS. But that's really a sports bike and is not relaxing to ride.
You could get properly sorted suspension on the Triumph and still have cash left over compared with the BMW. All the extra tech is just B.S. in my opinion, and irrelevant to the riding experience (ABS excepted), so that would be a 0-0 draw. Less tech and cheaper bikes please!
Also I'm not sure there's anything less "special" than the sound of a boxer twin, what with all the GSs around. :)
Great vid though.
Triumph all day everyday for me even if they were the same price.
I'm biased because I have the R9T, a head turning city bike. Am also blessed with a Multistrada for touring. I tell you, not having to jack with a chain drive makes life so much easier. Akin to having a sweet vrs bitchy wife. Makes life so much easier....no matter the price.
The Speed Twin not having cruise control, not even as an option, is absolutely idiotic, especially when Triumph already developed the system for the T120 and the Bobber (on TbW bikes that thing is literally 3 lines of code).
Hence, R12 NineT.
Would you be worried about the longevity of the BMW's dry clutch if you were slipping through London traffic day in and day out?
That dry clutch setup has taken rider all over the world for years in their GS’s so I’m pretty sure it survive a bit of London commuting
The BMW everyday!
That BMW just looks the part
I can’t warm to the BMW styling at all
Speed Twin all the way. Can’t we all just admit the boxer engine looks weird. It sticks out like a sore thumb and ruins the look on any bike. Also BMW lacks soul because they have no character. Triumph nails fit and finish better than anyone except maybe Ducati. I predict an update to the 2025 Speed Twin. You heard it here first 😊
Each to their own, but I love the look and feel of the air/oil cooled boxer engines (not so much the water-cooled ones though) and the one on my R Nine T sounds fantastic.
Super review. Best in class! Thank you
I like the BMW but I will never trust that company or give them my money ever again.
BMW - shaft drive and low slung weight.
Speed Twin all day every day
There is no comparison: once again, Triumph wins the 3rd world war against BMW
Secondhand R9T for me. Character, great looks and shaft drive at potentially a third of the price of that test bike. I do like the look of the Triumph but their terrible dealers put me off.
Triumph. 15 times out of 10.
Z900 RS SE 👑
Yep if it was my $ I would (and have bought A Triumph) . If I had one bike for the rest of my life it would be the BMW ..
Moto guzzi v7 win
I have a Speed Twin 900 but really want to try a Moto Guzzi v7, I just don't have a dealership anywhere close and have never seen a used one for sale in my area. Maybe someday.
It would be the triumph for me , sorry but BMWs are to expensive and I don’t like the ride or the look of them 😊👍👍