UndergroundMan1223 thanks but I know that. I’m taking about a programme on MTV where he broke it down from $1,000,000 advance to $15,000 being the average musician’s salary 👍
Nope. You have ppl that have ideas but are not actually able to make a cool song because layering multiple instruments actually takes a lot of knowledge. You have ppl that have spent years studying but are old and fat and not fit for the pop industry and you have loans and new gear for the artist and the cut that the big arena owners have to make and the plain tickets of a 100 ppl staff and gear rental and the gear crew and omg, so much stuff. The artist really make what they are worth. Just listen to Hey there Delilah live and notice that without the string section it sound like that cool teenage boy in high school that can play a few love songs and not like a super star.
@@magmaman253 the song has one in the official video, but in some live situations, it doesn't. When it doesn't you can hear how the song is still good but not amazing anymore and why the artist is not worth millions. It's just a small example of course but you get the point
@@magmaman253 The string section is there but subtle. Ppl remember the beauty of a song that includes a string section without remembering the string section itself(just ask a non-musician friend out of nowhere, what he/she remembers about the song and they will tell you guitar and voice) so they think that the musician is somehow magical. Also, ppl don't know how harmony and melody work and why you can do things that seem impossible but are actually easy( witch the industry does) and why ppl that resort to those tricks can't play in the same city to many times in a row and why they need to fly around the world. And those flights cost money witch the industry pays for the artist. Anyway, artist in the industry are pricks that don't understand that the industry ppl are investing millions in them and the artist don't just get paid s*&t, it just comes in different forms. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk :))
@@thediminished98 Even tho labels invest into the artists that still doesnt mean the labels are not exploiting artists. Since the investment is miniscule compared to the profit labels make. Also strings make an otherwise mediocre or bad song now worth millions yeaaah.
Expired Tylernol but if you are my bitch because you owe me 500,000 dollars and I need my money, you will do what I say no its or buts. Thats gotta be the most satanic shit ever.
@@expiredtylernol no actually that stuff does exist, musicians used to be more open about their occult practices back in ‘60s and ‘70s. Today they’re a little more discreet, they don’t talk about who they worship openly, and they don’t confirm nor deny it when confronted about it, but it’s all in the symbols they use in their music.
A famous and well-respected artist once said that if the record labels weren't so greedy since the 60s, stealing artist's royalties, then maybe those artists would have gone to bat for the labels. Napster may have killed record labels, but their artists watched them burn.
Yup. Is why there was such a split and drama within the artists/industry... maltreatment/unfair contracts didn't start with Napster. Response by artists was split because of the way things were and so many actively backed downloading from a place of "fuck the label, I'm not getting paid so they shouldn't be getting pad for me.... hell, I recall some major bands started leaking things onto download platforms, selling music at the concerts "under the table" as though they were still high school bands trying to promote themselves at a State Fair, etc. Not to mention the news casts of record labels complaining how they were losing money because people were listening to a greater variety of artists and they didn't feel it was fair that people were broadening their tastes.
Napster didn't kill the labels; mergers killed the labels. Bill Clinton signed a paper that allowed for a lot of mergers and within about ten to twenty years America went from 150+ labels to, like, 6.
Except Shiteallica and Dr Dreck. Since that, I've hated both. I mean, I don't generally listen to hip-hop so I don't know Dr Dre, but I used to love Metallica. But it became easier to hate them as everything after Justice was crap anyway.
let me put y’all on❤️ - take a smaller advance upfront - DONT sign your masters and publishing to the same company (be sure to make sure that label and the other label aren’t under the same umbrella) keep them separate - start a touring company and sign yourself to it (you’ll keep all of your touring money) - keep the rights to your merchandise, you can do this by doing the same thing as the last bullet point. - don’t fall for the red carpet treatment they do that to EVERYONE but be sure you let everyone interested take you out to eat because i’m not gonna lie they ball out for those dinners pre signing and take you to the most fire restaurants. but that doesn’t mean you have to sign to them. - get an attorney who will tell you to take the lower offer for better terms. this way you know if you can trust them or not. - once you sign keep “market share” in mind. they’ll have you collaborate with smaller artists under that label if you have traction under your own music. you can choose to collaborate or not but remember favors come in handy sometimes. so weigh your options. - all songs you make matter. if you use them great, if you don’t, pitch it to other artists and get publishing points. make your publishing bag from your songs you release personally and songs you write that you think are trash cause you never know who will get as for it and use your “trash” - and ultimately believe in yourself and never let one company / person have complete control or say over your work. splitting the deals up get you less money in the beginning but then you have more leverage later once they’re all working to try to blow you up. different connects with different companies and you still get the label power house. - and oh yeah!!! main thing!!! PUT RENEGOTIATION CLUSES AFTER EVERY TERM;) this way if something blows up - you have room to negotiate more money per project. - and eventually start your own label and sign artists and producers under you (respect them with equally favorable contracts so everyone eats and you get respected. hope this helps you guys. independent is a wave but you can also finesse your way through the label stuff and everyone can win just be careful and make wise choices and don’t jump on the big bag promises early. keep creating, love what you do & keep hustling for your dreams. (no matter what your gf or bf says lmao)
Start your own touring company? Sure! - At what level!? Touring around your local city, town or region!? - Have you got any idea about the costs and expenses, and the administrative and management work involved in setting up tours, even at a relatively 'small regional level', let alone national and international tours!? - When you are dealing with....Accomodation, food, transport, vehicles, bookings, ticket, and various other sales? - Then let's throw in promotions, advertising concert venue arrangements and management. - The many contractors and skilled technical and support staff required!? Security arrangements and costs? Insurance costs etc? Sorry, but it doesn't seem like you do! (?) And certainly at the high end...For instance....With any of the current 'hot name acts' who might tour nationally and internationally....While they are still playing a venue in one city. - Up to a third of the operation has already moved on, to set up the gig at the next city - and so on. Sure, the punters might turn up for the party! And good on them! They are paying to be taken out of their ordinary zone - for a time! That's show biz! But it sure doesn't just all fall neatly into place out of the sky! PS. Being involved in this business, it was intriquing to hear about development funding. This of course isn't new. There certainly have been aspiring bands and singers, who were 'given' pretty generous development grants. - And 'suddenly' they had all this money. So got into the "rock star lifestyle" and never went anywhere near a studio for months. I can remember we were asked by one Record Co boss....If we could please go around and give one band a tactful little "tune up" over exactly, that issue. So yes, there can be issues on both sides.
Let me just say as someone in his late 20s. I was starved for content like this during my teen years. You have access to more content than you have time to digest.
@Preston The smartest people I've met in my life who have extremely extensive knowledge about multiple subjects and are very critically thinking were very modest and agreed that although they do know quite a lot, the more they know, the more they realize they don't know. And people like you? Who put others down just to feel superior? There's a reason why they do that. When one can't lift himself up, he/she will put other people down. Let that sink in before you start screaming "what the fuck are you even talking about?" Although I don't expect you to understand.
North American TH-camr yea but they wouldn’t have anything without there people Financing them. And no ones forcing them to make this deal. They’re welcome to do it on their own. If they can’t, then they have to make the deal that they can. If they really are such an asset the company will negotiate with them.
North American TH-camr yea but they wouldn’t have anything without there people Financing them. And no ones forcing them to make this deal. They’re welcome to do it on their own. If they can’t, then they have to make the deal that they can. If they really are such an asset the company will negotiate with them.
Jesse Collins exactly, I’m not saying that some artists that are truly talented at making content aren’t getting screwed if they’re no good at business but with tech becoming easier and easier to use it’s going to be easier to have artists self publish. In the old days if you didn’t have a label backing you, you had no chance to make your name known out there. And sure labels take gambles on other artists to find the unicorns but that’s just part and parcel of the business. And also brings artistic diversity to the masses even if it doesn’t succeed.
@@WhyThoOz Easier said than done... until you have to pay the price for hiring others to write your shit, edit your shit, market your shit, etc etc. These fuckers keep onto their jobs with a cruel vengeance though. The actual musician should absolutely be able to dip.
@@SearchIndex In medicine you get paid a respectable wage for what you work, but only because if you don't you can literally kill people due to improper equipment and training. More industries should be treated with the high respect medicine is, just saying.
@Alpha Omega release your album on bandcamp, streaming platforms. These days it's hard to find labels. And you don't really need them anyway. Everything you can do on your own.
Hopsin once said that when he was signed to Ruthless Records he met a girl who was also signed to them but she was there for roughly a decade before him and her debut album never saw the light of day
@@jvnxiie2441 yeah I'm thinking the same thing I'm sure when they mean pretty accurate it's like it's generally accurate and instances you know because there's people that don't do this not that this isn't true
You might become famous one day, but please forget about the riches, if they follow so be it, but don't let those words touch your lips. And youll have a happy career. It's like they say, without money, we'd all be rich.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
@Usa mabaho You'd have an argument if there was some way to back out of the contract. I own everything you say, create, post, and do for the the rest of your life. You cannot back out and you will be paid very little. This is indentured servitude, this is repugnant.
@Usa mabaho the time you took to write this could have been better spent on any other form of education. every argument isn't personal , try to distant yourself so you aren't so triggered.
Fortunately, most parents don't have 95% of their children turn out to be total failures. Since we are comparing musicians to families, I did know a guy who was the only person in a large family to have a good income while everyone else was content to make minimum wage or straight up unemployed. Despite his six figure income, he was broke because he was guilted into financially propping up his parents and paying to raise his nieces and nephews.
Back then music had a load of quality and you could remember that so song for decades. Now, you hear a song and you forget it so quick because a new song and artist is out!!
When I was littler and started varsity, I wanted to have my own record label. I then read a book on the business model of record labels. My dream died that day. Even though I was studying a degree in business, I looked at it and thought "This is not right. This is unethical." I don't like this industry and it's not scrutinised enough.
@@lakaperse6995 but that’s the thing, it’s at times impossible to start without being unethical You need to decide whether you want a profit or better ethics before beginning one It’s a sad world
@@marketbiz38 look up chance the rapper deal with apple. These types of deals are extremely seldom though. And it was more for the promotion of apple music back then, they don't need this anymore. You can still get endorsement deals if you have a radio hit and unique esthetics/image.
@@ros3m4ries They are keeping all the profits, an artist deserves 5% .. 20% max .. also producers can tell the artists what subjects they are allowed to sing about and what they are not allowed to sing about. Also Zionists have the right to make money.
I read that Olivia Rodrigo insisted on owning her own masters, after reading the problems Taylor Swift had. What a 17 year old badass she was last year!
They kept being forced to release new music, that's why they sound bad because they dont have time to put thoughts or creativity into their records. Exception like Kendrick Lamar, where he realised the evil of the company on tpab, that's why his music felt genuine, and creatively good
Perspective is everything. A "record" company isn't really selling you recording expertise - anyone can mix in their own studio or garage these days. The 1930's [with its bulky and difficult to move equipment] are over and gone - long gone. What they are really selling is distribution. That means exclusive rights to them [along with their self imposed restrictions]. Never ever accept the premise of a "recording contract" - that's not whats really on the table. So if you are shopping for distribution, then ask those questions - not when you can book studio time. And most importantly is do you know how most millionaires became billionaires? Controlling intellectual property.
There is a song by Andre 3000 on his kids show Class of 3000 called “all we want is your soul” He was warning the children about the industry as well. It was cancelled pretty quickly.
I was an artist back in the 90s. I actually got some attention by a few record executives but KRS One sat down with me and explained how the money flows. I actually turned down a contract and started an independent label a few years later. I lost a little money because I had no decent financial backing for my work but atleast i didn't get caught up in a record deal debt trap
Im picturing the dirty playing suit persuading you. Its like signing your soul to the devil. Its like, 🤔 college predatory loans, among other financial schemes that exist in the USA. Its all about their money they will make off exploiting you.
@@Starry_Night_Sky7455 Its like? Whatch some videos on the industry here pn the tube. They do sell their soul. Theres no doubt about that. And many of them have spoken about it. So its not like it is.
@@marytc2714 well if u work hard enough and have quality in your music and art, you can become mainstream, you can become probably the most famous artist in the world and no kidding here....... the best examples are BTS & Taylor Swift BTS were from an indie agency and rn they are quite literally the most famous artist right? they turned a struggling, almost bankrupt company to one of the most profitable companies in the world! As for Taylor, she also signed to an indie record label and made it so successful and she is also one of the most famous artists in the world rn but unfortunately for her, the ppl she signed to were awful jerks and A-holes but at least, now she has control for her music Im just saying if you work damn hard and dont give up, even if you are an indie artist, you CAN become successful
And they always got someone in red or a bunch of red cars to honor & symbolize their god. It's bananas how dark this shit goes. I'm not even religious, I just can't stop reading.
when you study the inner workings of both they're almost identical. its frightening. the reason the labels spend so much money to make someone LOOK like a star is because they know fleeting fame and fortune are like alcohol and will lower the inhibition's of a normal person to sign back breaking deals. its insane how a person can change with fame. and its like a wink of an eye.
I just watched THE NEW EDITION STORY. In the movie, after having a #1 song and completing a world wide tour, after they got back home to Boston, the 5 boys had a check to split among them. It was for $1.97. The manager of New Edition talks about recoupable expenses down to a tee. Also, that same manager did not get paid at all for himself.
Many of the ones with larger net worths have branched out to starting other businesses (Dre had beats, others are getting their hand in the label money by starting their own label...etc). But it explains why so few musicians have billionaire status in spite of ridiculous sales and investments...
never look up net worth calculations. There's truly NO WAY to know someone's net worth. But generally, those who do make money in the business do so in other ventures. Jay Z and 50 Cent are perfect examples. Leverage your following into getting other business ventures. And once you become an empire builder, you will have more leverage on the labels. 50 Cent is still locked into a terrible deal which is why he's stopped releasing music. But Jay Z got a 360 deal worth like 100 million because of his clout.
This is exactly why I play 15 instruments, read and write music, and have a job with my name on my shirt. I’m not gonna put steak on somebody else’s table while I eat baloney.
Trevor Daniel makes VERY valid points but the most important is to get a lawyer who specializes in the music industry contracts. This has been going on since way, way earlier than 1999 !!! Years before, Paul McCartney, Wham, and lots of other world famous artists have been stiffed by the Labels, but hey listen : You signed the deal. First big mistake. You do not have to agree to everything in the contract. Another word for Contract is 'An Agreement' and until you can both 'agree' then you don't sign. Simples. Don't let greed rule your life.
Social media had made it easier for artists to “pop” without a label. SoundCloud is another vehicle that has helped independent artists grow their name. The need for labels is diminishing by the day. That is why the labels signed equity deals with the streaming services. The Joe budden podcast talks about this topic a lot. Overall being independent is not as hard as it once was
would u trust small soundcloud labels for the underground like helix tears? they’re like a label some of their more notable members are 8485, blackwinterwells, osquinn, and dollywood, it’s not a label it’s a collective of artists managed and promoted by helix tears , but u do have to sign to helix tears
@@Dascoo77 its a platform with more complications and lesser quality music so artists get paid lesser then what they would going to an actual label but they pro with soundcloud is that your able to flood your music so depending on how much music you put it out and how much views it revenues then your pretty under another "label"
Actually, there's a third solution to the ones you proposed at the end: you build your audience all in DIY so you can then attract a label and have the leverage to negotiate a fair deal. Streams payout are not great if you have to split between 70 people when you are just starting out, this is not necessary. Realistically, labels these days will give a fair contract opportunity for an artist that has already made a part of the road to success. Owning your songs, having a great audience and the ability to create more great songs is what gives you leverage. Without leverage or proof, you are basically asking the record company to be an industry plant, meaning they'll have to invest a shit-ton of money to get you to the pro level. In these cases, to be fair, I think the record label has 99% of the rights. The "industry plant" artist is more like an employee since he does maybe 1% of the whole work involved in his own career. On the other side of the spectrum, you can have a hard working artist that built something overtime, and the record label is there just to ignite more of the fire by pouring money into great marketing. I think it all depends on the level of investment needed in the artist's development. Building a music career is probably the most brutal business there is. But that's a ton of fun as well! Just don't sign stupid contracts mmkay? It's 2020, there are 1000 things you can do to help your career without losing your soul in the process.
Why would you sign a record deal if you are making it as an indie/diy? It's like giving them free money. If an indie is profitable on their own, why ruin a good thing? Labels don't bring anything to the table for a successful diy/indie artist. Why would I take an advance when I can just earn that money? This is just my point of view.
@@kpec3 I think that's my point: you don't want any advances except the money that's going to put into marketing. No fancy dinners, no overhead. But as I write this, you make me think that having a great team that you pay for their services could potentially produce great results. I'm just wondering in terms of "making it bigger", maybe a big label is the only way to get massive marketing power to get to the next level. Question mark.
@@RememberingGames you have a good point cause once you have a large audience there not much the label can do, other than getting you radio play and pushing money into marketing etc. There is a saying that says easy come easy go. The faster you rise to stardom with the labels help aka 360 deal, the faster you fall. I really found what you said helpful!
Duran Duran found this out way back in the 80s while they were still the biggest band in the world. They criticized the record labels in songs like 'I Dont Want Your Love' and 'Too Much Information' in the 90s. They only became rich when they started their own record label and started touring heavily.
They say blues musician Robert Johnson went to the crossroads where he sold his soul to the devil. It was actually where he signed a contract to record his songs. Nothing has changed. Thanks for posting this in greater detail!
@@tanio7639 some are, but a lot of the “slave” contracts are a thing of the time. Most kpop contracts are pretty much the same as western artist contracts, hence why more and more kpop artists are writing and producing more music.
@@maddie9655 I’m sure the contracts are similar in terms of payment but man... I’ve seen one too many “Kpop artists passing out on stage” compilations to say that it’s the same
Correct me if im wrong, imo the difference between western and kpop artist is their freedom. Kpop artist, especially band get a lot of pressure by their masters. Even in some case, this pressure cause suicide. They can't ask for help to anyone, even their fans cause some of kpop fans is.......uknowwhatimsayin
@@wm_9640 western artists also pass out, I’m not sure about all fainting and sicknesses on stage, but I know most of them are due to outsider conditions like heat and clothing. I’m not saying they are not overwork, but the biggest difference is that kpop artists get more pushback when in reality almost every single issue is in the western music industry as well. I mean western record labels and managing companies are insanely cruel and sometimes even more cruel to their artists.
Great stuff, I work in the graphic design and music industry and the treatment is even worse for artists, photographers, illustrators, and stylists, and dozens of production level people where plagiarism is rampant and time deadlines essentially guarantee the sloppiest dirtiest solution every time which are then used to screw an artist out of a raise either for being too derivative or taking to long to concept, it's incredibly disheartening to endure for any period of time and one of the reasons why most people don't last more than 5 years in a creative field. Most people quit or conform to management and take a job working excel, instead of adobe, for 3x the pay and 1/3 the work.
Just when you think your favorite artist makes 5 million to 15.5 million a year. That is 10 times more than the average doctor, lawyer, or airline pilot make in a year. However in reality it is just like working a normal job at McDonald's or Walmart. So don't use music sharing websites. These musicians are not made of money like you thought.
If you want to be a musician for the love of music, become an indie artist and work your butt off, it eventually pays way more than 90% of those artists that are on "labels". If you just want attention and to be famous, sign a record label, have tons of photo shoots/videos and social media then end up broke(overhead and lawyers cost) and getting more attention for going broke then suing or being sued. I've been in the industry for quite a while and make a decent living at it by treating it like a business and establishing trustworthy contacts and keeping a tight network of reliable people. In the end this was a way better route for me personally that gave me 100% control of my own destiny and music (which is why I still love being a musician). The only downside recently for us indie artists or at least me personally has been to expansion of streaming. While it offers you much more reach and bigger platform for being "discovered" the downside is more and more people are choosing to stream your music instead of actually downloading or buying an actual CD or vinyl. If you really want to support your favorite indie artist buy their actual record or CD. i.e. I make $15 on a CD sell. I make 3 cents if you listen to it on spotify.
The issue is that music is not selling. Most of the claimed figures of sales are nonsense at best. Only a few big artists make anything. Cultural creativity is at an all time low. Modern art is like a toilet seat.
Its all in the manager you have. Genesis has always had control over every aspect of their career. Their manager, Tony Smith is extremely smart and extremely loyal to the band. He gets them as big of the piece of the pie as possible. All of the time
And that's why Genesis managed not only to survive when Peter Gabriel "exited the machinery", which was pretty huge, but survive the lost of Steve Hackett as well, the main force which kept them prog. Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford was the main force that kept Genesis very successful and pretty damn good on most of the albums. It wasn't greed, it was the love to make music by three amazing men. Genesis was also the band that appeared to help Peter Gabriel who became broke when he organised the first, unsuccessful WOMAD festival in 82.
Yup I don’t remember exactly the right number but someone said 3000 or 4000 plays is equivalent to one cd sale some bullshit like that I was shock when I saw that lol
@@juliobello4561 It depends on where the CD was sold. Album sales are weighted. An independent store will generate more "sales" for a single CD sold than a box store like Target would, for example.
And why there was such the massive split then between major artists where so very many were backing and actively urging downloading vs buying.... or releasing their own on the DL at concerts and such. Some fought downloading hard, some fought for it hard. Depended on how much they were getting screwed, how, and for how long they had to wait it out.
First thing if you want to go into music: do you want to just do the music? Or do you want to manage it all, yourself? Second thing: hire a lawyer, regardless. Third thing: don't sign anything until you know what it is you're signing. This whole thing is not a new problem or topic of conversation.
@@ct2651 They aren't all bad though. Plenty of smart artists made sure to have their deals scrutinized to make sure they weren't getting screwed. Take Rage Against the Machine. They basically demanded and got total creative control from a major label. Prince is another one. He did whatever he wanted and made a ton of money while maintaining control. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign. The artists ALWAYS choose to sign. If they don't read what they sign then they are fucking idiots. Plain and simple.
@@doublestrokeroll you would be able to cite way more than two example if what you said didnt need some kind of genius intellect... when most people are indeed idiots, maybe the system shoud accomodate a little more.
@@ct2651Besides your first sentence not even making sense, every rich musician who owns their own masters. Jay Z. Rhianna, U2, Metallica, the list is large. Do I really need to name them all? Or are you that lazy you can't do your own google search? And there are still plenty of bands who may not own their masters but negotiated great deals for themselves. Or maybe they should just know it's a business because it's obviously a business, and stop being naive little children. How far is the "system" supposed to go to provide you with an education about the thing YOU chose to do? Absolutely ridiculous to even suggest that people should be hand held and not take responsibility for their own decisions.
A big surprise to me was when Duff McKagan allegedly said in an interview about the UYI Tour. "Guns N' Roses only broke even after more than 2 years of touring when we finished in July of 1993." Something had to have gone really wrong and many times over.
Yes, I read this too. Duff went back to school after that was over. He focused on finance because he had no idea what was going on. These musicians dont have a clue when they sign. They are not lawyers. In the case of Guns N Roses, they were all strung out on drugs ☹ back then. They were their own hey-kids-dont-do-drugs-like-us experiment. Its shocking they all lived this long.
Yeah, this BS has been happening in one way or another since the 1930s, when people REALLY started buying records. I'm reminded of the story of Sean Combs meeting David Bowie. Sean was shocked that Bowie had such a firm handshake and asked him, _"Man, I want to know what exercise machine you use?"_ Bowie replied, _"It's called holding on to your money."_ Bowie had been screwed out of millions for a decade by his managers and RCA Records from 1971-1982. Starting with 1983's "Let's Dance" album, he never let that happen to him again.
Desperation. Not many artists have the balls to actually go independant. If you could get signed now for an upfront payment of $300k chances the average artist would take it, not knowing going independant, they could make that in a month at some point and only have to worry about the tax man.
Marketing is a bigger factor to being a star than talent. Alot of artist know that. If you want to big a star it is all about marketing and promotion. I love to do karaoke and sometimes a person sings a song so good that its clear they have a God given talent yet they aren't stars. Why is that? It is because being a star is for the most part a result of good marketing.
It tells that the industry does not want to see a black man thrive, Michael Jackson was a black man and before he was even 30, he owned the Beatles catalog, was dubbed the king of pop, 20 guiness world records, the best selling album of all time and a record of 8 grammys in one night, and more achivements than i can name. They couldn't believe it so they made up stories and rumors about him to bring him down and turn the public against them e.g "he's a pedo" "he hates his race" etc. Everything is just fucked, rip mj.
@@simoncowell8238 BS Michael Jackson was the most financially backed and supported artist in history. He was one of the wealthiest artists in history. Records companies spent more for MJ than any other artist. MJ/Jacksons was making 15 minute long professional video clips in the 70's when most white bands didnt have a video clip for their songs. Everything turned to shit for MJ when he refused to stop sleeping with young boys and his reputation was damaged and his album sales tanked. The US is the only country where people get very rich from art, like singing and songwriting.
I’m 30 years in the business as an artist advocate and consulates and a lot of the money is outright stolen from artists, and the major entertainment lawyers and accountants sell out the artists and represent the record Labels (which is a major conflict of interest) Jess S. Morgan & Company baaed in L.A. is embezzling from major artists right now.
Yes! Also look at what happened to The Romantics over the rights to their Eighties hit "What I Like About You." Musicians have to be as cautious of their managers, too. It *is* a business and trying to ignore that's like jumping into a shark tank with bloody meat tied to your clothes. Count on getting torn apart ☠️☠️☠️☠️
Until artists create their own medium nothing will change. Right now the whole industry is in a death spiral. The musical product for the last two decades has been trash. This has driven sales down and has also pushed the creativity of the culture out. People are not adventurous anymore in creativity. Name a truly great song in the last 20 years?
bighand69 What you consider “great” music is completely subjective dude. Also even (ESPECIALLY) 20 years ago, chart-topping musicians were still going broke and getting completely fucked over with insane, immoral contracts so I‘m not sure what your point is
This is the best, most comprehensive but approachable breakdown of how the music industry works and takes advantage of people. These days, especially in electronic music, we're seeing the rise of indie labels that sign artists on a song by song or album by album basis, and it seems to be a much more equitable deal a lot of the time. Also, I can confirm firsthand that Spotify, while great for discovery, does NOT pay well.
There are deals on a song by song basis?? Wow that's interesting. I haven't come across that yet, although I didn't spend any time analyzing electronic music industry much
@@SpencerCornelia Electronic music is the best. As an EDM Producer, I can tell you that labels are really better than the majors! Mostly the labels owned by big DJs are really cool. I got signed to a label where I could make 75%
Yes, I can confirm. I'm an electronic music producer & DJ and for last 10 years I signed only singles or EPs to different labels. I chose not to be exclusive to any label :)
You're right about spotify not paying well, but quiet wrong about it being great for artist discovery. People think it is the greatest platform for artists discovery because they have no better option. Spotify is the worst at promoting new artists. There is an absolute way new unknown artists can easily be discovered outside of streaming platforms and I am starting a company to do just that
The problem is many “artists” these days aren’t even real artists. The record label is the one supplying them with hit song writers and award winning producers. All they do is show up and do vocal takes and that’s their entire involvement in the writing process. These people should not be getting the lions share of the money because they’re not doing the lions share of the work. It’s also an insult to actual artists to refer to these folks that way. I call them “performers” - that’s what they are. They perform. I still don’t agree with 360 deals but let’s not sugar coat what’s happening in the state of pop music today. It’s a disgrace. And don’t even get me started on the “live” shows where there’s lip syncing backing tracks galore and IF there’s a live mic, it’s got pitch correction and it’s turned down lower than the pre recorded backing vocals 🤦♂️
Billie and her brother are what the music industry looked like as a whole, before the Milli Vanilli boy band days. It was rare to have “fake” groups like the Monkees, etc.
I definitely agree with what you're saying Nick. It's the same in hip hop right now where a lot of "artists" are basically just faces because they have small input on the record.
Spencer Cornelia Well... at least Hip Hop is a lyrics dominated genre, ie the lyrical content is one of the most important elements to a good track. But yeah, there are definitely a lot of ghost writers out there in the hip hop world right now, way more than there were during the golden days during the 90s.
The publishing side of the industry (songwriting) is probably the most honest side of the music industry. Most publishing deals are a 50/50 split between the writer and the publisher and most publishers are very scrupulous about paying the songwriters. They'll even find performers for them. Writer gets paid, publisher gets paid. If you write your own stuff, you are entitled to less royalties, so the record company LOVES it if you can write your own songs because they don't have to pay more to you or a publisher.
@@jasonclegg1999 I totally agree man. That's why I generally listen to more underground artists. They're usually artists who care more about their craft and less about the cash
Then you have to spend more time running the business and less time actually making music. The choice is yours. EDIT: I don't mean that as a bad thing. Sometimes you do need to run a business in order to make a living.
Was in bands for over 20 yrs. Luckily I got to hang out with some pretty big tour managers and learned a lot from them. We talked to several labels over the years but had little luck cause we just wanted a promotion deal. They wanted to give us more and more money so we'd turn them down. Never ended up landed a good deal but still got to play with all my favorite bands over the years just doing diy. No debt and good memories.
You never would have made money unless you were in the pre 1990s. Music sales over the last few decades have massively dropped off. Most consumers are not interested in trashy products that obsess over destruction. Culturally we are at an all time low in terms of creativity. Movies, films, TV shows, books and art is creating dreadful products in the modern world. Could you name one great pop song in the last two decades or a style of clothing that you could recognise as part of the culture?
A band like My Chemical Romance was lucky because they got in RIGHT BEFORE 360 Deals became the norm. So, basically any band/artist later than about 2005 has had a 360 Deal. If you want to see a story of somebody who took on the record industry and won, see Tom Petty. He refused to hand over the master tapes of Damn The Torpedos unless his contract was renegotiated and even went as far as to declare bankruptcy to get out of his current contract at the time. He won.
I’ve never actually heard anything about how MCRs contracts worked out! I’d be gutted to this very day if they’d gotten screwed like some of the more recent artists I’ve seen. They were one of the last bands i spent a ton of $ supporting with every physical CD, merch etc
As an independent artist this is scary to think about, I am grateful that somehow with no publicity I was able to get a few thousand streams as a Spotify artist and a few here on TH-cam but it opened my eyes to see how little they actually make.
Some of you commenting are songwriters or aspiring songwriters, That part of the industry too has plenty of shady opportunists. A good friend of mine was offered a single song publishing contract with a publisher that has been around for years. My friend's demo was killer, very professional and well produced and no doubt part of what sold the song to the publisher. Almost immediately the publisher informed him his demo needed more this or that as far as production, so he asked my friend to call a producer friend of his so the demo could be re-done. When my friend called the publisher's friend here's what he found: the man was an aged vet of the old school glory days of vinyl records. When my friend insisted there was nothing wrong with his original demo this man said, "You need to give it more of a feel like the Four Seasons' "1973- Oh What a Night'. I can do that for you." (Yes, he actually said this in 2015!) My friend asked for how much and he said "$600.00" (So they were asking for $600 AFTER my friend had spent $1200 already on a demo produced and arranged by a man who has worked w/ everyone from Katy Perry to Kesha! I sensed that this publisher was hoping my friend was a naive and inexperienced struggling songwriter. (In actuality he had had 3 songs previously released and made some pretty impressive royalties). I couldn't help but think of how many unwitting or naive songwriters paid this publisher to have their demos re-done. Songwriters: never pay to have your songs published. If the publisher is convinced it's a hit he should not be asking for money from you! If he wants your tune he will pay to re-demo it. (P.S. My own online research on my friend's publisher revealed his company has never had a substantial hit song even after being in business for decades.)
Watch out for a company called Taxi.....Bad News......Trying to get a decent songwriting deal is near impossible. They have all the entry points covered. It will cost YOU money just to get your material seen and heard with no guarantees. Most publishing houses don't want indie writers at all or it seems like that. My song writing partner and myself tried for years to get a break but without a substantial amount of money upfront it was near impossible. Yeah we still write songs and record them as demos just in case but they will never see the light of day because its all stitched up. Have fun!
@@wideyxyz2271 Yes, they present themselves shrewdly with songwriters testifying about how they got a break from signing up with them, etc. Are they genuine and ethical? I don't know. There were hundreds of songwriters trying to get a break when I first moved to L.A. The National Academy of Songwriters, "American Songwriting" competitions, certain attorneys, and sometimes even formerly successful songwriters or lyricists presented themselves as being supportive of young songwriters, but I suspect some of them were just exploiting the flood of Hollywood dreamers in order to make an easy buck.Success stories were rare. I think the most despicable ones were and are the "songwriting contests". There is one right now being advertised on FB that , as usual, includes the word "American" in its contest name to make it sound wholesome or like "American Idol". This one is so bald in its intentions it doesn't even ask for a full song, just lyrics, which will effectively protect them from lawsuits yet allow them to lure anyone who has written a few lines on a napkin to enter. The music industry has always had loads of "bottom feeders". Pursue it as a hobby if you wish but don't torture yourself over it and do keep your day job (if you are so lucky as to have one right now). What's really "all-American" when it comes to show biz dreams? Financial exploitation, scams, liars, fake "publishers" with not track record whatsoever... be smart!
I think a huge part of the issue is just people in general have had their money stretched so thin, and music has become something that most people take for granted. Major music fans still exist, we still buy albums and physical media, but the rise in popularity of digital streaming was always going to water down the income. Not to mention that most "popular" artists are just a face these days. I support my favorite artists by buying physical copies of their music, following them on social media, pledging for their new album campaigns. That is the future of the industry, connect with the fans, cut out as much of the middle men as possible. Check ot artists like: Die Happy, The Birthday Massacre, The Subways, Guano Apes, Silbermond...
I was an aspiring artist In the late 90s and early 2000s. Once I took the time to learn the business and found out the very facts that he is speaking about. I quickly bowed out left the rapper ambitions on the corner and went back to school.
The whole industry is producing trash. If Billie Eilish is the best they can do there is no hope. Cinema is the same who wants to watch films that are all about racism, sexism and rape.
That 'nine to five' doesn't sound so bad after all! Some will throw everything aside to become a 'personality' or a 'celebrity' no matter what it 'costs' them!!!
Sweet deal when you can have a movie that grosses $1 billion dollars and not pay any taxes on it due to 'losses' in marketing, production and distribution by companies that you actually own.
@@lilliesinthegard32 Some of the Independent Record Labels which I follow are C.I. Records, Red Cord Records, Capeside Records, Polyvinyl Records, Rottweiler Records, Safe Inside Records, Merge Records, Sancrosanct Records, A-F Records. There are a ton more labels I follow, being an audiophile I enjoy finding new up and coming artists through small independent labels.
@@EliBTR5.3 How to know if they are better to their artists? Genuinely curious because I heard independent labels are worse and put more pressure even (Sorry english is not my first language)
@@lilliesinthegard32 Honestly it can be a crapshoot it just depends honestly on the label themselves. Victory Records is the #1 Independent Record Label here in the states but the owner of the label is a tyrant and there is a huge history of artists being held hostage by that label or just in general being promised things and those things not happening. Independent Record Labels are usually more artist friendly in that depending on the label and contract that is signed the artists are able to keep the rights to their music, as well they will have more control over what they want to put out on the label as well. Independent labels have their draw backs usually being smaller budgets but Independent labels generally will always be much more artist friendly to up and coming new artists versus corporate label that will just release most artists if they're not producing to their expectations.
I’d say look into the way Hybe and Big Hit has handled BTS’ career. From training them and preparing them to for the industry, to keeping most things in-house and allowing the members of the group get their own studios within the record label’s building.
That's because they cleared off all the debt with the huge sum of money they made after they took off. Most of the reputable companies work that way, they'll spend whatever is required from forming the group to promotions and once you start making money and slowly clear off the debt, they'll start paying you / increase your salary
I had a deal. Seen what it was and literally quit rapping. I probably wasnt going to be the next Drake so it just wasn’t worth it. I was the most depressed i had ever been in my life.
Good for you for not falling into the trap. But don't quit king, if you love making music that is. do it as a side thing maybe you end up becoming popular. if yes then great and if not then it doesn't matter cuz it's a side thing you do for fun.
Growing up as an artist in the early 90s indie era, to me this stuff should be 101 for any aspiring talent. We have to get away from this "artist as innocent victim" narrative and teach younger musicians not to walk into anything with their eyes closed. In any line of business there are entities waiting to eat talent and trends for breakfast to make their buck. It's business. In this modern day artists have little excuse not to know better. Protect your art and don't walk into anything blind
: You're simplistic point of view omits the influence of family and ppl "the artist" trusts who convince them to "trust" the labels bc they want to benefit. It happened to me, although it was back in the day. I waited out the contract, and never looked back.
There is, to be fair, an entire multi-trillion dollar industry devoted to convincing first children, then teenagers, then adults that the best possible job they can have in our society is to work for a large media conglomerate.
That includes housing as well. There's contracts in project housing. And they use tenants to feed info other services or create funding for themselves!!
@@RoyalBlood23 Not trying to say the streets are a better alternative. I just think that modern resources allow us to localize media production to be more relevant and helpful in smaller communities instead of culture being monopolized by a few metropolitan areas' idioms and local problems. In that way, older members of individual communities could make sophisticated artistic accounts of those communities that would help younger members navigate them safely and compassionately. That's in contrast to the current situation where people think they have to go to Hollywood, New York, Atlanta, or Nashville if they want a music career.
I released an LP independently on my own this year and my sales have dried up for now. Ok that sounds sad and yep I made no money (which is ok, cos I make a living teaching music anyway) but at least I made the album I wanted to without compromise and I don't owe ANYONE any money WHATSOEVER! I'm free!!!
@@bighands69 modern culture constantly changes and evolves. This stuff hasn't changed since record labels have been made, and that's the issue. Nothing has changed.
I put my years in touring with artists as a stage manager/guitar/backline tech. Generally speaking, unless the artist is selling out arenas, the crew are making more than the band. Macklemore spoke the truth in "Jimmy Lovine" Anyway, you ready? We’ll give you a hundred thousand dollars After your album comes out, we’ll need back that money that you borrowed" "So it’s really like a loan?" "A loan?! Come on, no We're a team, 360 degrees, we will reach your goals! You'll get a third of the merch that you sell out on the road Along with a third of the money you make when you’re out doing your shows Manager gets twenty, booking agent gets ten So shit, after taxes, you and Ryan have 7% to split! That’s not bad, I’ve seen a lot worse No one will give you a better offer than us" "Mm-hm," I replied, "I appreciate the offer" Thought that this is what I wanted Rather be a starving artist Than succeed at getting fucked
In every industry, there are loan sharks waiting to convince newbies that in order to do anything big, they’ll need deep pockets. While this is often true, at least be honest & frame this as debt and that taking a huge controlling share of the masters is basically the same as a high interest %. I worked for a private bank that loaned small companies $ at 36% to be able to do large business deals. These clients were minutes away from a heart attack every day calling the office checking in. I’d say, DIY and grow & invest in your own budget one concert/tour at a time. Then buy property, and then leverage that for a regular bank loan for which the interest % is at least known.
The original, and biggest lesson about this kind of thing is the relatively small amount of money The Beatles made, and the fact that they lost their songs to their publisher, Dick James (as did Elton John, to the same fellow). And The Beatles (and they were really the only ones in their earning category) were paying 98% INCOME TAX IN THE UK in the late 60s (it was called 'Super Tax'). Then, the British Government taxed George Harrison ONE MILLION POUNDS in the early 70s for putting on the charity 'Concert for Bangladesh' - which he did in the U.S.!!!! Margaret Thatcher taxed the Bandaid charity record. TLC went broke when they were at No. 1 on Billboard in the 1990s; the examples are endless. David Coverdale was broke and in debt to the tune of several milliion dollars when Whitesnake finally hit big.
The key to success in the music business is to connect with a certain audience who will willingly buy your merch and stream your songs and go to your concerts. You don't have to be a professional singer, guitarist, etc, but you have to show some degree of skill in whatever genre you play. Only do the music that you like and have fun playing. Never stop learning. Make sure that you're sounding like you and not like what others sound like. Looks do sort of matter, so you have to dress with the style of music your aiming for, but don't go too far.
@@WilliamFuckingButcher they don't just *want* money, they need money. Getting started with no connections and team is too hard and to get all that you need money. Now they think that the money they get from the labels will make them successful enough that you can pay it off but it's mostly not the case as you end up needing to pay back a shit ton. It's just wrong, can't blame the artists
This is exactly why I was so shocked and impressed by the group ICP after listening to an interview about their experiences with labels. You'd think that a gimmick band like Insane Clowns would be broke as a joke right now... but they actually found a way to maneuver around the record companies and mainstream outlets to keep the money they were making.
Prince was shouting this from the rooftops decades ago.
Damn right!
Michael jackson did too about Sony
Taylor Swift was saying this last year.
And so did Q-tip when he broke down all the expenses in that MTV episode ‘the life of’ years ago
UndergroundMan1223 thanks but I know that. I’m taking about a programme on MTV where he broke it down from $1,000,000 advance to $15,000 being the average musician’s salary 👍
This sums up the whole entertainment industry: "you have bright eyed people that create art, and people that take advantage of them"
Nope. You have ppl that have ideas but are not actually able to make a cool song because layering multiple instruments actually takes a lot of knowledge. You have ppl that have spent years studying but are old and fat and not fit for the pop industry and you have loans and new gear for the artist and the cut that the big arena owners have to make and the plain tickets of a 100 ppl staff and gear rental and the gear crew and omg, so much stuff. The artist really make what they are worth. Just listen to Hey there Delilah live and notice that without the string section it sound like that cool teenage boy in high school that can play a few love songs and not like a super star.
The Diminished hey there Delilah doesn’t have a string section? Or are you talking about them using strings in live performances
@@magmaman253 the song has one in the official video, but in some live situations, it doesn't. When it doesn't you can hear how the song is still good but not amazing anymore and why the artist is not worth millions. It's just a small example of course but you get the point
@@magmaman253 The string section is there but subtle. Ppl remember the beauty of a song that includes a string section without remembering the string section itself(just ask a non-musician friend out of nowhere, what he/she remembers about the song and they will tell you guitar and voice) so they think that the musician is somehow magical. Also, ppl don't know how harmony and melody work and why you can do things that seem impossible but are actually easy( witch the industry does) and why ppl that resort to those tricks can't play in the same city to many times in a row and why they need to fly around the world. And those flights cost money witch the industry pays for the artist. Anyway, artist in the industry are pricks that don't understand that the industry ppl are investing millions in them and the artist don't just get paid s*&t, it just comes in different forms.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk :))
@@thediminished98 Even tho labels invest into the artists that still doesnt mean the labels are not exploiting artists. Since the investment is miniscule compared to the profit labels make.
Also strings make an otherwise mediocre or bad song now worth millions yeaaah.
I guess that's what people mean when they say "selling your soul"
Yep! Not no superstitious bullcrap that other people say
Expired Tylernol but if you are my bitch because you owe me 500,000 dollars and I need my money, you will do what I say no its or buts. Thats gotta be the most satanic shit ever.
@@expiredtylernol no actually that stuff does exist, musicians used to be more open about their occult practices back in ‘60s and ‘70s. Today they’re a little more discreet, they don’t talk about who they worship openly, and they don’t confirm nor deny it when confronted about it, but it’s all in the symbols they use in their music.
Dennis Van Welker so you’re telling me all these artists do occult practices and worship shit? ok dude
Yup, they own your voice!
A famous and well-respected artist once said that if the record labels weren't so greedy since the 60s, stealing artist's royalties, then maybe those artists would have gone to bat for the labels. Napster may have killed record labels, but their artists watched them burn.
Yup. Is why there was such a split and drama within the artists/industry... maltreatment/unfair contracts didn't start with Napster. Response by artists was split because of the way things were and so many actively backed downloading from a place of "fuck the label, I'm not getting paid so they shouldn't be getting pad for me.... hell, I recall some major bands started leaking things onto download platforms, selling music at the concerts "under the table" as though they were still high school bands trying to promote themselves at a State Fair, etc. Not to mention the news casts of record labels complaining how they were losing money because people were listening to a greater variety of artists and they didn't feel it was fair that people were broadening their tastes.
They didn't really die tho, they're involved in every streaming platform
@@tomlxyz More powerful and invasive than ever. True Dat
Napster didn't kill the labels; mergers killed the labels. Bill Clinton signed a paper that allowed for a lot of mergers and within about ten to twenty years America went from 150+ labels to, like, 6.
Except Shiteallica and Dr Dreck.
Since that, I've hated both. I mean, I don't generally listen to hip-hop so I don't know Dr Dre, but I used to love Metallica. But it became easier to hate them as everything after Justice was crap anyway.
let me put y’all on❤️
- take a smaller advance upfront
- DONT sign your masters and publishing to the same company (be sure to make sure that label and the other label aren’t under the same umbrella) keep them separate
- start a touring company and sign yourself to it (you’ll keep all of your touring money)
- keep the rights to your merchandise, you can do this by doing the same thing as the last bullet point.
- don’t fall for the red carpet treatment they do that to EVERYONE but be sure you let everyone interested take you out to eat because i’m not gonna lie they ball out for those dinners pre signing and take you to the most fire restaurants. but that doesn’t mean you have to sign to them.
- get an attorney who will tell you to take the lower offer for better terms. this way you know if you can trust them or not.
- once you sign keep “market share” in mind. they’ll have you collaborate with smaller artists under that label if you have traction under your own music. you can choose to collaborate or not but remember favors come in handy sometimes. so weigh your options.
- all songs you make matter. if you use them great, if you don’t, pitch it to other artists and get publishing points. make your publishing bag from your songs you release personally and songs you write that you think are trash cause you never know who will get as for it and use your “trash”
- and ultimately believe in yourself and never let one company / person have complete control or say over your work. splitting the deals up get you less money in the beginning but then you have more leverage later once they’re all working to try to blow you up. different connects with different companies and you still get the label power house.
- and oh yeah!!! main thing!!! PUT RENEGOTIATION CLUSES AFTER EVERY TERM;) this way if something blows up - you have room to negotiate more money per project.
- and eventually start your own label and sign artists and producers under you (respect them with equally favorable contracts so everyone eats and you get respected.
hope this helps you guys. independent is a wave but you can also finesse your way through the label stuff and everyone can win just be careful and make wise choices and don’t jump on the big bag promises early.
keep creating, love what you do & keep hustling for your dreams. (no matter what your gf or bf says lmao)
Really liked your music with Selena Gomez....u keep up the good work too
Touring company?? How?? And have any other artists have that?
@treezy yes he is, visit his channel.
Start your own touring company? Sure! - At what level!? Touring around your local city, town or region!? - Have you got any idea about the costs and expenses, and the administrative and management work involved in setting up tours, even at a relatively 'small regional level', let alone national and international tours!? - When you are dealing with....Accomodation, food, transport, vehicles, bookings, ticket, and various other sales? - Then let's throw in promotions, advertising concert venue arrangements and management. - The many contractors and skilled technical and support staff required!? Security arrangements and costs? Insurance costs etc? Sorry, but it doesn't seem like you do! (?) And certainly at the high end...For instance....With any of the current 'hot name acts' who might tour nationally and internationally....While they are still playing a venue in one city. - Up to a third of the operation has already moved on, to set up the gig at the next city - and so on. Sure, the punters might turn up for the party! And good on them! They are paying to be taken out of their ordinary zone - for a time! That's show biz! But it sure doesn't just all fall neatly into place out of the sky! PS. Being involved in this business, it was intriquing to hear about development funding. This of course isn't new. There certainly have been aspiring bands and singers, who were 'given' pretty generous development grants. - And 'suddenly' they had all this money. So got into the "rock star lifestyle" and never went anywhere near a studio for months. I can remember we were asked by one Record Co boss....If we could please go around and give one band a tactful little "tune up" over exactly, that issue. So yes, there can be issues on both sides.
Thanks, Trevor.
Very informative.
Go get 'em!
As a 17-year-old guy who has no idea about how the world works your videos are really helping me out. Keep it up
@Preston I don't think you know jack shit either. Also, at the rate the world is progressing, it's nearly impossible to keep a track on everything.
Don’t get discouraged
Let me just say as someone in his late 20s. I was starved for content like this during my teen years. You have access to more content than you have time to digest.
@Preston ok tough guy. show us what you can do in a real deal scenario. I bet your knees would turn to rubber in no time.
@Preston The smartest people I've met in my life who have extremely extensive knowledge about multiple subjects and are very critically thinking were very modest and agreed that although they do know quite a lot, the more they know, the more they realize they don't know. And people like you? Who put others down just to feel superior? There's a reason why they do that. When one can't lift himself up, he/she will put other people down. Let that sink in before you start screaming "what the fuck are you even talking about?" Although I don't expect you to understand.
I knew that artists got screwed by the industry, but I didn't know it was this bad.
Once they leave they are nothing very few Walked Out hell i doubt eminem has real words on trump hes nothing without his brand!
They should've just kept singing in the McDonald's kitchen. They probably could've made more money.
North American TH-camr yea but they wouldn’t have anything without there people Financing them. And no ones forcing them to make this deal. They’re welcome to do it on their own. If they can’t, then they have to make the deal that they can. If they really are such an asset the company will negotiate with them.
North American TH-camr yea but they wouldn’t have anything without there people Financing them. And no ones forcing them to make this deal. They’re welcome to do it on their own. If they can’t, then they have to make the deal that they can. If they really are such an asset the company will negotiate with them.
Jesse Collins exactly, I’m not saying that some artists that are truly talented at making content aren’t getting screwed if they’re no good at business but with tech becoming easier and easier to use it’s going to be easier to have artists self publish. In the old days if you didn’t have a label backing you, you had no chance to make your name known out there. And sure labels take gambles on other artists to find the unicorns but that’s just part and parcel of the business. And also brings artistic diversity to the masses even if it doesn’t succeed.
Musicians need to actually be musicians. Do your own composition, songwriting, playing instruments and uploads/marketing.
Easier said than done
Bru this is the definition of "easier said than done"
But moooom! That's too hard!! 😭
@@WhyThoOz Easier said than done... until you have to pay the price for hiring others to write your shit, edit your shit, market your shit, etc etc. These fuckers keep onto their jobs with a cruel vengeance though. The actual musician should absolutely be able to dip.
That’s what I’m working on, all in one
This video: Should be mandatory viewing for all aspiring recording artists. Show business is, in fact, a business.
More an industry than a business, I.e. Musicians are not employees or partners, they are raw materials or cattle to be processed.
I bet even then some people will sign it still out of desperation
and for the scientific and medical and eco industries..,industry is industry
@@SearchIndex In medicine you get paid a respectable wage for what you work, but only because if you don't you can literally kill people due to improper equipment and training. More industries should be treated with the high respect medicine is, just saying.
you made deal with devil.. and you hoping they are angel...
Makes you curious as to how many artists we have never heard because the record label didn't see them as profitable.
Everything gets screwed when business guys start stepping in for profit.
B Simm from Louisville, KY
@Alpha Omega release your album on bandcamp, streaming platforms. These days it's hard to find labels. And you don't really need them anyway. Everything you can do on your own.
So many.
Hopsin once said that when he was signed to Ruthless Records he met a girl who was also signed to them but she was there for roughly a decade before him and her debut album never saw the light of day
I've worked in the music industry since 1997. This is pretty accurate info.
what do you do?
@@Jiminy-trx pretty sure they mean the whole thing in general is pretty accurate
@@jvnxiie2441 yeah I'm thinking the same thing I'm sure when they mean pretty accurate it's like it's generally accurate and instances you know because there's people that don't do this not that this isn't true
What do you do?
@@kawaiiplastic5808 Legal affairs for music licensing and several years in A&R Administration. I've read and revised plenty of contracts.
This made me feel better about publishing my music to my 40 spotify monthly listeners !
You just got one more listener!
@@AlliBearASMRVA you should wait for the upcoming single then ! You'll love it
Some people wish they had just 1
Also if you have 40 nothing stops you from going up! Keep it going!
definitely ! become one now haha
mind my marketing skills lol
You might become famous one day, but please forget about the riches, if they follow so be it, but don't let those words touch your lips. And youll have a happy career.
It's like they say, without money, we'd all be rich.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
Hunter S. Thompson
so eloquently worded
I heard it on xplay
Relevant. He was a writer, not a musician.
😅😂😤😂😅
@@kpec3 True, but Hunter Thompson did make that quote.
Imagine the time your parents spent raising you and then getting a 85% cut your lifetime income.
This is the records label argument.
@Usa mabaho You'd have an argument if there was some way to back out of the contract.
I own everything you say, create, post, and do for the the rest of your life. You cannot back out and you will be paid very little.
This is indentured servitude, this is repugnant.
Aaron Brown I agree
@Usa mabaho the time you took to write this could have been better spent on any other form of education.
every argument isn't personal , try to distant yourself so you aren't so triggered.
Fortunately, most parents don't have 95% of their children turn out to be total failures. Since we are comparing musicians to families, I did know a guy who was the only person in a large family to have a good income while everyone else was content to make minimum wage or straight up unemployed. Despite his six figure income, he was broke because he was guilted into financially propping up his parents and paying to raise his nieces and nephews.
Parents? Bad comparison.
This also effects the quality of music, it all sounds the same because the labels are literally shitting out artist every week.
Back then music had a load of quality and you could remember that so song for decades. Now, you hear a song and you forget it so quick because a new song and artist is out!!
Lots of artists but only a handful of songwriters.
Art is subjective tho. It's not the art that's being produced that's the problem.
It is also because these artists are also crap somewhat like diarrhoea
@Magic don’t forget nicki minaj and megan the stallion
When I was littler and started varsity, I wanted to have my own record label. I then read a book on the business model of record labels. My dream died that day. Even though I was studying a degree in business, I looked at it and thought "This is not right. This is unethical."
I don't like this industry and it's not scrutinised enough.
You could have your own record label without doing something unethical .
@@lakaperse6995 but that’s the thing, it’s at times impossible to start without being unethical
You need to decide whether you want a profit or better ethics before beginning one
It’s a sad world
@@nirvaashah168 Yup
What book
This is why so many artist start their own label or just get marketing deals
bingo!
Chance the Rapper is a great example.
When you say marketing deals, are you talking about like commercials or can you specify?
@@marketbiz38 look up chance the rapper deal with apple. These types of deals are extremely seldom though. And it was more for the promotion of apple music back then, they don't need this anymore. You can still get endorsement deals if you have a radio hit and unique esthetics/image.
Facts!!
Now I know why famous bands who seem to have it perfect break up and go solo
What they are doing is ANTI-SEMITIC
@@cinemaparadiso5402 excuse me... What?
@@ros3m4ries They are keeping all the profits, an artist deserves 5% .. 20% max .. also producers can tell the artists what subjects they are allowed to sing about and what they are not allowed to sing about. Also Zionists have the right to make money.
@@cinemaparadiso5402 im not gonna read all of that
@@cinemaparadiso5402 fuck zionists
"...and ghostwriters."
Shows picture of drake 😂
yeah yeah, love my cellphone....
Drake and his ghostwriter.
Wow! I knew it.
This is old news now. Even after everybody knowing it, Drake is still successful and chart topping.
Drake sexual spotted 👆😁
I read that Olivia Rodrigo insisted on owning her own masters, after reading the problems Taylor Swift had.
What a 17 year old badass she was last year!
She was probably buzzing already in a bidding war. You can only ask for your masters if you have leverage to do so
@@Jumpaz416 apparently yes, I read she accepted a smaller sum of money to get the right contact for her. Wise move
Yep, I am glad the she knows how the music business works so young. And hopefully she teaches others about it.
This is why the most popular singers are not always the best or even good.
Bingo
THIS
It’s not about how good you are it’s about how you sell yourself through branding and marketing
They kept being forced to release new music, that's why they sound bad because they dont have time to put thoughts or creativity into their records. Exception like Kendrick Lamar, where he realised the evil of the company on tpab, that's why his music felt genuine, and creatively good
@Balderas Antonio Maddona can sing, dance, and write, don’t even put her in the same category as that mediocre white boy.
“That just sounds like slavery with extra steps.”
No it's not. They had the chance to read the contract, but they didn't. It's their fault.
Ooh la la, somebody’s gonna get laid in college.
“Ooh la la”? That’s a pretty fucked up “eek barba derkle”.
WUBBALUBBADUBDUB
D3ATH_SHADOW AIDS!!!!!!!
Michael Jackson called Sony racist. He died and they bought his whole catalogue for 750mill 🤯
Some would call that price a steal.
How do you know this @mikayi ? I thought his estate owned it
From what I heard he was in debt.
There's levels to this thing.
Ben Caesar debt is fake
Isothrill exactly that’s the point
Perspective is everything. A "record" company isn't really selling you recording expertise - anyone can mix in their own studio or garage these days. The 1930's [with its bulky and difficult to move equipment] are over and gone - long gone. What they are really selling is distribution. That means exclusive rights to them [along with their self imposed restrictions]. Never ever accept the premise of a "recording contract" - that's not whats really on the table.
So if you are shopping for distribution, then ask those questions - not when you can book studio time. And most importantly is do you know how most millionaires became billionaires? Controlling intellectual property.
This
Intellectual property, makes lots of sense
I guess that's why they say famous artists "sell their souls to the devil."
Yep I imagine this is the origination
this is a wage slave planet.
There is a song by Andre 3000 on his kids show Class of 3000 called “all we want is your soul” He was warning the children about the industry as well. It was cancelled pretty quickly.
Jeremy Heartriter2.0 no it’s because they all sell their souls to the devil
that's not just a meaning. It's literally
th-cam.com/video/ftdeb4ejQSg/w-d-xo.html
So legalized debt slavery. Never knew about recoupable money.
Every car sent, every phone call is charged to the artist. The biggest scam? Labels bill the artist for studio time, despite owning the studios!
Try to figure out what high level bankers have in common with music executives and it all makes sense.
SpunkyMonkeyEUW dogwhistle much?
@@tartantulakid666 is it any surprise you subscribe to literal neonazi youtube accounts
@@tartantulakid666 he knows, shut it down
I was an artist back in the 90s. I actually got some attention by a few record executives but KRS One sat down with me and explained how the money flows. I actually turned down a contract and started an independent label a few years later. I lost a little money because I had no decent financial backing for my work but atleast i didn't get caught up in a record deal debt trap
Im picturing the dirty playing suit persuading you. Its like signing your soul to the devil. Its like, 🤔 college predatory loans, among other financial schemes that exist in the USA. Its all about their money they will make off exploiting you.
@@Starry_Night_Sky7455 Big Facts.
@@Starry_Night_Sky7455 Its like? Whatch some videos on the industry here pn the tube. They do sell their soul. Theres no doubt about that. And many of them have spoken about it. So its not like it is.
Anywhere we can still check your work out?
That’s why it’s important to stay DIY and sign to independent labels instead. There are quite a few indie labels with large followings out there.
Indie isn’t mainstream though , you won’t get very famous
@@marytc2714 You don't need to get famous and be a Billionaire
5000 Copies x $20 = $50 000 excluding Touring.
@@marytc2714 well if u work hard enough and have quality in your music and art, you can become mainstream, you can become probably the most famous artist in the world and no kidding here.......
the best examples are BTS & Taylor Swift
BTS were from an indie agency and rn they are quite literally the most famous artist right?
they turned a struggling, almost bankrupt company to one of the most profitable companies in the world!
As for Taylor, she also signed to an indie record label and made it so successful and she is also one of the most famous artists in the world rn but unfortunately for her, the ppl she signed to were awful jerks and A-holes
but at least, now she has control for her music
Im just saying if you work damn hard and dont give up, even if you are an indie artist, you CAN become successful
@@marytc2714 If you tour as an indie group, and play some well-known festivals, you can pull in quite a bit of cash
And now with social media, these musicians are posting cars & big mansions, showing this fake lifestyle
Exactly paid slaves
That's youre 100K for "social media promotion"
Exactly! Living in big houses with rental furniture
Been going on since 'CRIBS'..most of that was faked as well,except Red Man,that episode was great!🤣
And they always got someone in red or a bunch of red cars to honor & symbolize their god. It's bananas how dark this shit goes. I'm not even religious, I just can't stop reading.
These recording labels are essentially banks, that are charging extremely high interest on borrowed time.
Nice.
And the same people. "The harder they comel" is a good movie
Facts. The most important part, making the music, can be done in someone’s garage, spare bedroom, closet, or living room. Thank God for Pro Tools. 🤣
when you study the inner workings of both they're almost identical. its frightening. the reason the labels spend so much money to make someone LOOK like a star is because they know fleeting fame and fortune are like alcohol and will lower the inhibition's of a normal person to sign back breaking deals. its insane how a person can change with fame. and its like a wink of an eye.
Kind of like the old fashioned "loan sharks", but legal....
Nothing in the world is as "glamorous" as it seems.
Thats a fact. Ayo, would you mind giving my song a listen? Im trying to build awareness, just looking for help where i can find it.
Completely agree.
Accurate
The "glamour" part is just cosmetics and packaging.
What about DJs
I just watched THE NEW EDITION STORY. In the movie, after having a #1 song and completing a world wide tour, after they got back home to Boston, the 5 boys had a check to split among them.
It was for $1.97.
The manager of New Edition talks about recoupable expenses down to a tee. Also, that same manager did not get paid at all for himself.
Chile I remember that part smh. Wow
Bruh this is insane. That means that most of the “net worths” you can google for musicians are probably a lot lower.
Many of the ones with larger net worths have branched out to starting other businesses (Dre had beats, others are getting their hand in the label money by starting their own label...etc). But it explains why so few musicians have billionaire status in spite of ridiculous sales and investments...
never look up net worth calculations. There's truly NO WAY to know someone's net worth. But generally, those who do make money in the business do so in other ventures. Jay Z and 50 Cent are perfect examples. Leverage your following into getting other business ventures. And once you become an empire builder, you will have more leverage on the labels. 50 Cent is still locked into a terrible deal which is why he's stopped releasing music. But Jay Z got a 360 deal worth like 100 million because of his clout.
Never trust Google net worths.
Exactly!
@@SpencerCornelia I thought Jay-Z was independent. How could he sign a 360 deal!
This is exactly why I play 15 instruments, read and write music, and have a job with my name on my shirt. I’m not gonna put steak on somebody else’s table while I eat baloney.
I play 22 instruments come at me
@Chris Osorio I play 70, I’ll wait..🤷♂️
I play 154 instruments....all at the same time.
I can only play 3:(
I can only play the drums. Not very good at it.
But I do have songs on TH-cam.
A couple of them are about death.
I'm a starving truck driver.
Thank God, I am an independent artist. I may not make millions but everything I generate is mine.-
Amen.
Were do you live? I also wana live tax free. Here in Sweden i get to keep 24% of what i own.
Independent artists are ANTI-SEMITIC (my opinion)
@@cinemaparadiso5402 did anyone ask for your opinion
@@yv4790 do you even know what anti Semitic means?😭😭
Trevor Daniel makes VERY valid points but the most important is to get a lawyer who specializes in the music industry contracts. This has been going on since way, way earlier than 1999 !!! Years before, Paul McCartney, Wham, and lots of other world famous artists have been stiffed by the Labels, but hey listen : You signed the deal. First big mistake. You do not have to agree to everything in the contract. Another word for Contract is 'An Agreement' and until you can both 'agree' then you don't sign. Simples. Don't let greed rule your life.
Social media had made it easier for artists to “pop” without a label. SoundCloud is another vehicle that has helped independent artists grow their name. The need for labels is diminishing by the day. That is why the labels signed equity deals with the streaming services. The Joe budden podcast talks about this topic a lot. Overall being independent is not as hard as it once was
would u trust small soundcloud labels for the underground like helix tears? they’re like a label some of their more notable members are 8485, blackwinterwells, osquinn, and dollywood, it’s not a label it’s a collective of artists managed and promoted by helix tears , but u do have to sign to helix tears
@@TheyNerfedYou so....it's a label. Lol.
@@acolyteaxiom4054 no not really just a collective of artists managed by helix corp
@@TheyNerfedYou so... a label.... LOL.
@@Dascoo77 its a platform with more complications and lesser quality music so artists get paid lesser then what they would going to an actual label but they pro with soundcloud is that your able to flood your music so depending on how much music you put it out and how much views it revenues then your pretty under another "label"
"Sign a deal with the devil". Well put. Most of these musicians could earn more money driving a truck. Just saying.
Actually, there's a third solution to the ones you proposed at the end: you build your audience all in DIY so you can then attract a label and have the leverage to negotiate a fair deal. Streams payout are not great if you have to split between 70 people when you are just starting out, this is not necessary. Realistically, labels these days will give a fair contract opportunity for an artist that has already made a part of the road to success. Owning your songs, having a great audience and the ability to create more great songs is what gives you leverage. Without leverage or proof, you are basically asking the record company to be an industry plant, meaning they'll have to invest a shit-ton of money to get you to the pro level. In these cases, to be fair, I think the record label has 99% of the rights. The "industry plant" artist is more like an employee since he does maybe 1% of the whole work involved in his own career. On the other side of the spectrum, you can have a hard working artist that built something overtime, and the record label is there just to ignite more of the fire by pouring money into great marketing. I think it all depends on the level of investment needed in the artist's development.
Building a music career is probably the most brutal business there is. But that's a ton of fun as well! Just don't sign stupid contracts mmkay? It's 2020, there are 1000 things you can do to help your career without losing your soul in the process.
Why would you sign a record deal if you are making it as an indie/diy? It's like giving them free money. If an indie is profitable on their own, why ruin a good thing? Labels don't bring anything to the table for a successful diy/indie artist. Why would I take an advance when I can just earn that money? This is just my point of view.
@@kpec3 I think that's my point: you don't want any advances except the money that's going to put into marketing. No fancy dinners, no overhead. But as I write this, you make me think that having a great team that you pay for their services could potentially produce great results. I'm just wondering in terms of "making it bigger", maybe a big label is the only way to get massive marketing power to get to the next level. Question mark.
Kévin Isabelle For me, no. Going bigger is not a solution and adding more people doesn't solve it.
@@RememberingGames you have a good point cause once you have a large audience there not much the label can do, other than getting you radio play and pushing money into marketing etc. There is a saying that says easy come easy go. The faster you rise to stardom with the labels help aka 360 deal, the faster you fall. I really found what you said helpful!
This is basically what Russ did. He was able to enter negotiations with leverage and his tunecore catalog before the deal was off limits.
Duran Duran found this out way back in the 80s while they were still the biggest band in the world. They criticized the record labels in songs like 'I Dont Want Your Love' and 'Too Much Information' in the 90s. They only became rich when they started their own record label and started touring heavily.
😅 love how you mentioned ghostwriters and Drakes photo pops up. Hilarious.
Lmao nice catch
😤😂😤
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
But a rapper with a ghostwriter, what the fuck happened?
Lol, I was looking for this comment because I knew I wasn’t the only one who noticed
They say blues musician Robert Johnson went to the crossroads where he sold his soul to the devil. It was actually where he signed a contract to record his songs. Nothing has changed. Thanks for posting this in greater detail!
Nice to see Robert Johnson’s name brought up here a true legend
YkOsiris made a video saying how the music industry is evil watch the video shits crazy
It's always been this bad, you haven't seen kpop companies yet.
That's next level
@@tanio7639 some are, but a lot of the “slave” contracts are a thing of the time. Most kpop contracts are pretty much the same as western artist contracts, hence why more and more kpop artists are writing and producing more music.
@@maddie9655 I’m sure the contracts are similar in terms of payment but man... I’ve seen one too many “Kpop artists passing out on stage” compilations to say that it’s the same
Correct me if im wrong, imo the difference between western and kpop artist is their freedom. Kpop artist, especially band get a lot of pressure by their masters. Even in some case, this pressure cause suicide. They can't ask for help to anyone, even their fans cause some of kpop fans is.......uknowwhatimsayin
@@wm_9640 western artists also pass out, I’m not sure about all fainting and sicknesses on stage, but I know most of them are due to outsider conditions like heat and clothing. I’m not saying they are not overwork, but the biggest difference is that kpop artists get more pushback when in reality almost every single issue is in the western music industry as well. I mean western record labels and managing companies are insanely cruel and sometimes even more cruel to their artists.
Great stuff, I work in the graphic design and music industry and the treatment is even worse for artists, photographers, illustrators, and stylists, and dozens of production level people where plagiarism is rampant and time deadlines essentially guarantee the sloppiest dirtiest solution every time which are then used to screw an artist out of a raise either for being too derivative or taking to long to concept, it's incredibly disheartening to endure for any period of time and one of the reasons why most people don't last more than 5 years in a creative field. Most people quit or conform to management and take a job working excel, instead of adobe, for 3x the pay and 1/3 the work.
“Industry Rule #4080, record company people are shadyyy” - Q-Tip
A Tribe Called Quest - Check The Rhyme 👍
Indigo Yep! Wisdom from a Long Ago. Still Applicable.
Used to illegally down music all the time when I was younger.. now I don’t mind paying knowing that It helps support my favorite artists.
I used Napster because I was pissed about all the times I wasted money on an artists CD with 2 good songs and the rest bs. 🤷♂️🤷♀️
Same here
Does it help support your favorite artist?
Your helping the artist more by illegally downloading the song and mailing them a quarter.
Just when you think your favorite artist makes 5 million to 15.5 million a year. That is 10 times more than the average doctor, lawyer, or airline pilot make in a year. However in reality it is just like working a normal job at McDonald's or Walmart. So don't use music sharing websites. These musicians are not made of money like you thought.
@@Queenofsole100 same here. Many’s an album I wished I never bought due to awful songs
If you want to be a musician for the love of music, become an indie artist and work your butt off, it eventually pays way more than 90% of those artists that are on "labels". If you just want attention and to be famous, sign a record label, have tons of photo shoots/videos and social media then end up broke(overhead and lawyers cost) and getting more attention for going broke then suing or being sued. I've been in the industry for quite a while and make a decent living at it by treating it like a business and establishing trustworthy contacts and keeping a tight network of reliable people. In the end this was a way better route for me personally that gave me 100% control of my own destiny and music (which is why I still love being a musician).
The only downside recently for us indie artists or at least me personally has been to expansion of streaming. While it offers you much more reach and bigger platform for being "discovered" the downside is more and more people are choosing to stream your music instead of actually downloading or buying an actual CD or vinyl.
If you really want to support your favorite indie artist buy their actual record or CD. i.e. I make $15 on a CD sell. I make 3 cents if you listen to it on spotify.
❤️❤️❤️
The issue is that music is not selling. Most of the claimed figures of sales are nonsense at best. Only a few big artists make anything.
Cultural creativity is at an all time low. Modern art is like a toilet seat.
@@bighands69 then what about those networth online
Its all in the manager you have. Genesis has always had control over every aspect of their career. Their manager, Tony Smith is extremely smart and extremely loyal to the band. He gets them as big of the piece of the pie as possible. All of the time
Same with Grateful Dead
Same with Oasis in the 90s
Ditto Led Zep.
And that's why Genesis managed not only to survive when Peter Gabriel "exited the machinery", which was pretty huge, but survive the lost of Steve Hackett as well, the main force which kept them prog. Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford was the main force that kept Genesis very successful and pretty damn good on most of the albums. It wasn't greed, it was the love to make music by three amazing men.
Genesis was also the band that appeared to help Peter Gabriel who became broke when he organised the first, unsuccessful WOMAD festival in 82.
When Napster came out the record company said “the artist is being ripped off” more like the record company was being ripped off. 😂
Yup I don’t remember exactly the right number but someone said 3000 or 4000 plays is equivalent to one cd sale some bullshit like that I was shock when I saw that lol
@@juliobello4561 It depends on where the CD was sold. Album sales are weighted. An independent store will generate more "sales" for a single CD sold than a box store like Target would, for example.
And why there was such the massive split then between major artists where so very many were backing and actively urging downloading vs buying.... or releasing their own on the DL at concerts and such. Some fought downloading hard, some fought for it hard. Depended on how much they were getting screwed, how, and for how long they had to wait it out.
As i remember their biggest opposition was Metallica the freaking band not the record company.
Ripping the record company (or talking against the record companies) is ANTI-SEMITIC (my opinion)
Industry rule number 4080:
Record company people are shadyyyyyyyyyy
In my notes, I had this song listed to add and I completely forgot to add it
HEAVYVIBRATION STUDIO PL INDEPENDENT METAL PROJECT, JOIN AND ENJOY heavyvibrationstudiopl.bandcamp.com/
oohh a tribe called quest..respect!
its Music Mafia even the court judges are in universal swapping codes to put royalties to other accounts
Kids watch your back.
First thing if you want to go into music: do you want to just do the music? Or do you want to manage it all, yourself? Second thing: hire a lawyer, regardless. Third thing: don't sign anything until you know what it is you're signing. This whole thing is not a new problem or topic of conversation.
yep. Artists have nobody to blame but themselves if they are in a shitty deal.
@@doublestrokeroll when all deal are bad, where is competition or incentive to make a better deal... just saying.
@@ct2651 They aren't all bad though. Plenty of smart artists made sure to have their deals scrutinized to make sure they weren't getting screwed. Take Rage Against the Machine. They basically demanded and got total creative control from a major label. Prince is another one. He did whatever he wanted and made a ton of money while maintaining control.
Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign. The artists ALWAYS choose to sign. If they don't read what they sign then they are fucking idiots. Plain and simple.
@@doublestrokeroll you would be able to cite way more than two example if what you said didnt need some kind of genius intellect... when most people are indeed idiots, maybe the system shoud accomodate a little more.
@@ct2651Besides your first sentence not even making sense, every rich musician who owns their own masters. Jay Z. Rhianna, U2, Metallica, the list is large. Do I really need to name them all? Or are you that lazy you can't do your own google search? And there are still plenty of bands who may not own their masters but negotiated great deals for themselves.
Or maybe they should just know it's a business because it's obviously a business, and stop being naive little children.
How far is the "system" supposed to go to provide you with an education about the thing YOU chose to do? Absolutely ridiculous to even suggest that people should be hand held and not take responsibility for their own decisions.
A big surprise to me was when Duff McKagan allegedly said in an interview about the UYI Tour. "Guns N' Roses only broke even after more than 2 years of touring when we finished in July of 1993." Something had to have gone really wrong and many times over.
Yes, I read this too. Duff went back to school after that was over. He focused on finance because he had no idea what was going on.
These musicians dont have a clue when they sign. They are not lawyers. In the case of Guns N Roses, they were all strung out on drugs ☹ back then. They were their own hey-kids-dont-do-drugs-like-us experiment. Its shocking they all lived this long.
Drugs
Isnt Jonah Hill's father working on GNR UYI tour?
Could have also had something to do with Axl showing up late and starting riots, but yeah imagine the devil's writing those contracts
That’s why they destroyed MJ...he was an equal partner with Sony (through catalog ownership) so they destroyed his reputation before taking him out
Yea the industry is full of interesting stories, especially once artists start gaining control
They got all mj recording masters
ordonize holmes ??
@@SpencerCornelia very interesting indeed..!
Error_ YUK to be fair, if he didn’t have kids sleeping in his bedroom he would never have been accused in the first place
Yeah, this BS has been happening in one way or another since the 1930s, when people REALLY started buying records. I'm reminded of the story of Sean Combs meeting David Bowie. Sean was shocked that Bowie had such a firm handshake and asked him, _"Man, I want to know what exercise machine you use?"_ Bowie replied, _"It's called holding on to your money."_ Bowie had been screwed out of millions for a decade by his managers and RCA Records from 1971-1982. Starting with 1983's "Let's Dance" album, he never let that happen to him again.
I'm surprised that people still sign major record deals...
I know right?!
Desperation. Not many artists have the balls to actually go independant. If you could get signed now for an upfront payment of $300k chances the average artist would take it, not knowing going independant, they could make that in a month at some point and only have to worry about the tax man.
Fax
Marketing is a bigger factor to being a star than talent. Alot of artist know that. If you want to big a star it is all about marketing and promotion.
I love to do karaoke and sometimes a person sings a song so good that its clear they have a God given talent yet they aren't stars. Why is that? It is because being a star is for the most part a result of good marketing.
I assume they do it for the advance and the hope they can turn them into stars
This is why I prefer supporting Indie artists who self-publish themselves.
🤝🤝🤝🤝🤝
Mj was the greatest entertainer of all time yet still Sony tried to rip him off. What should that tell you
and when he tried to leave sony.. Boom he died..
It tells that the industry does not want to see a black man thrive, Michael Jackson was a black man and before he was even 30, he owned the Beatles catalog, was dubbed the king of pop, 20 guiness world records, the best selling album of all time and a record of 8 grammys in one night, and more achivements than i can name. They couldn't believe it so they made up stories and rumors about him to bring him down and turn the public against them e.g "he's a pedo" "he hates his race" etc. Everything is just fucked, rip mj.
Sony killed him off allegedly
@@simoncowell8238 nah they wouldn’t take down they own unicorn.
@@simoncowell8238 BS Michael Jackson was the most financially backed and supported artist in history. He was one of the wealthiest artists in history. Records companies spent more for MJ than any other artist. MJ/Jacksons was making 15 minute long professional video clips in the 70's when most white bands didnt have a video clip for their songs.
Everything turned to shit for MJ when he refused to stop sleeping with young boys and his reputation was damaged and his album sales tanked. The US is the only country where people get very rich from art, like singing and songwriting.
I’m 30 years in the business as an artist advocate and consulates and a lot of the money is outright stolen from artists, and the major entertainment lawyers and accountants sell out the artists and represent the record Labels (which is a major conflict of interest) Jess S. Morgan & Company baaed in L.A. is embezzling from major artists right now.
Like MJ and his lawyer John Branca
Every musician should read Music Law: How to Run Your Band's Business by Richard Stim. If you aren't sure, go and research what happened to Badfinger.
Yes! Also look at what happened to The Romantics over the rights to their Eighties hit "What I Like About You." Musicians have to be as cautious of their managers, too. It *is* a business and trying to ignore that's like jumping into a shark tank with bloody meat tied to your clothes. Count on getting torn apart ☠️☠️☠️☠️
Until artists create their own medium nothing will change. Right now the whole industry is in a death spiral. The musical product for the last two decades has been trash.
This has driven sales down and has also pushed the creativity of the culture out. People are not adventurous anymore in creativity.
Name a truly great song in the last 20 years?
bighand69 What you consider “great” music is completely subjective dude. Also even (ESPECIALLY) 20 years ago, chart-topping musicians were still going broke and getting completely fucked over with insane, immoral contracts so I‘m not sure what your point is
@@52andattitude48 My point is musicians should learn that about the business side of music. It will save them from a lot of pain.
Rick Kaylor My comment wasn’t directed at you haha, I liked your comment
7:20 “Smashing Pumpkins on Joe Rogan” now that’s a band name
This is the best, most comprehensive but approachable breakdown of how the music industry works and takes advantage of people. These days, especially in electronic music, we're seeing the rise of indie labels that sign artists on a song by song or album by album basis, and it seems to be a much more equitable deal a lot of the time.
Also, I can confirm firsthand that Spotify, while great for discovery, does NOT pay well.
There are deals on a song by song basis?? Wow that's interesting. I haven't come across that yet, although I didn't spend any time analyzing electronic music industry much
@@SpencerCornelia Electronic music is the best. As an EDM Producer, I can tell you that labels are really better than the majors! Mostly the labels owned by big DJs are really cool. I got signed to a label where I could make 75%
Yes, I can confirm. I'm an electronic music producer & DJ and for last 10 years I signed only singles or EPs to different labels. I chose not to be exclusive to any label :)
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You're right about spotify not paying well, but quiet wrong about it being great for artist discovery. People think it is the greatest platform for artists discovery because they have no better option. Spotify is the worst at promoting new artists. There is an absolute way new unknown artists can easily be discovered outside of streaming platforms and I am starting a company to do just that
The problem is many “artists” these days aren’t even real artists. The record label is the one supplying them with hit song writers and award winning producers. All they do is show up and do vocal takes and that’s their entire involvement in the writing process. These people should not be getting the lions share of the money because they’re not doing the lions share of the work. It’s also an insult to actual artists to refer to these folks that way. I call them “performers” - that’s what they are. They perform. I still don’t agree with 360 deals but let’s not sugar coat what’s happening in the state of pop music today. It’s a disgrace. And don’t even get me started on the “live” shows where there’s lip syncing backing tracks galore and IF there’s a live mic, it’s got pitch correction and it’s turned down lower than the pre recorded backing vocals 🤦♂️
exactly, then the big names up top say that "artists" like Billie Eilish are some form of hyper-talented virtuosos. what a load of bs...
Billie and her brother are what the music industry looked like as a whole, before the Milli Vanilli boy band days. It was rare to have “fake” groups like the Monkees, etc.
I definitely agree with what you're saying Nick. It's the same in hip hop right now where a lot of "artists" are basically just faces because they have small input on the record.
Spencer Cornelia Well... at least Hip Hop is a lyrics dominated genre, ie the lyrical content is one of the most important elements to a good track. But yeah, there are definitely a lot of ghost writers out there in the hip hop world right now, way more than there were during the golden days during the 90s.
The publishing side of the industry (songwriting) is probably the most honest side of the music industry. Most publishing deals are a 50/50 split between the writer and the publisher and most publishers are very scrupulous about paying the songwriters. They'll even find performers for them. Writer gets paid, publisher gets paid.
If you write your own stuff, you are entitled to less royalties, so the record company LOVES it if you can write your own songs because they don't have to pay more to you or a publisher.
This makes me re evaluate the way I listen to music.
which is why iv always veered away from mainstream
My advice is you should consider buying music to support artists instead of streaming
@@jasonclegg1999 I totally agree man. That's why I generally listen to more underground artists. They're usually artists who care more about their craft and less about the cash
tidal.com/artist/20511770
open.spotify.com/artist/2pxZvWiSaYRGan630bbJFD?si=nGSBkN-pQFGr8WbfN60_-g
soundcloud.com/tilly-grace-nalwanga
music.apple.com/gb/artist/tilli/1520107853
music.th-cam.com/channels/xRfjOWT_0LRfLI9Q2RTINA.html
Yes that is true. But many musicians spend money in a reckless manner.
Yup especially in this flex culture.
“...Or take drugs for a boost of creativity” 😆😆😆
😭😂😂🤣
I'm so pissed off by the industry
Ok, so stop consuming their product.
Then start to listen to independent artist
This is true information. That is why more and more artists are learning music production and marketing these days! Great video man, cheers!
Thats why you stay independent And keep all the money yourself
What money? :))
James Brown was known for traveling on tours with suitcases full of cash and a pistol in his pocket.
Then you have to spend more time running the business and less time actually making music. The choice is yours.
EDIT: I don't mean that as a bad thing. Sometimes you do need to run a business in order to make a living.
@@danielsjohnson well if you want to be a musician, you should also learn business. as music IS a business, rather people want to admit it or not.
Yep
Was in bands for over 20 yrs. Luckily I got to hang out with some pretty big tour managers and learned a lot from them. We talked to several labels over the years but had little luck cause we just wanted a promotion deal. They wanted to give us more and more money so we'd turn them down. Never ended up landed a good deal but still got to play with all my favorite bands over the years just doing diy. No debt and good memories.
You never would have made money unless you were in the pre 1990s. Music sales over the last few decades have massively dropped off.
Most consumers are not interested in trashy products that obsess over destruction. Culturally we are at an all time low in terms of creativity.
Movies, films, TV shows, books and art is creating dreadful products in the modern world. Could you name one great pop song in the last two decades or a style of clothing that you could recognise as part of the culture?
It's hard enough to learn to play guitar, then you have to deal with this?
I picked up guitar quickly piano though is hard
😂😂😂😂
A band like My Chemical Romance was lucky because they got in RIGHT BEFORE 360 Deals became the norm. So, basically any band/artist later than about 2005 has had a 360 Deal.
If you want to see a story of somebody who took on the record industry and won, see Tom Petty. He refused to hand over the master tapes of Damn The Torpedos unless his contract was renegotiated and even went as far as to declare bankruptcy to get out of his current contract at the time. He won.
I’ve never actually heard anything about how MCRs contracts worked out! I’d be gutted to this very day if they’d gotten screwed like some of the more recent artists I’ve seen. They were one of the last bands i spent a ton of $ supporting with every physical CD, merch etc
As an independent artist this is scary to think about, I am grateful that somehow with no publicity I was able to get a few thousand streams as a Spotify artist and a few here on TH-cam but it opened my eyes to see how little they actually make.
This is why Prince was so far ahead of his time.
You so right
even his Music is still reaching people like me today
Bro’s purple rain still touches me 😔🙏🏿
@@MB-nb7yq "everyone
I miss Prince purple majesty could had gave independent musicians a shot to stardom including myself.
Some of you commenting are songwriters or aspiring songwriters, That part of the industry too has plenty of shady opportunists. A good friend of mine was offered a single song publishing contract with a publisher that has been around for years. My friend's demo was killer, very professional and well produced and no doubt part of what sold the song to the publisher. Almost immediately the publisher informed him his demo needed more this or that as far as production, so he asked my friend to call a producer friend of his so the demo could be re-done. When my friend called the publisher's friend here's what he found: the man was an aged vet of the old school glory days of vinyl records. When my friend insisted there was nothing wrong with his original demo this man said, "You need to give it more of a feel like the Four Seasons' "1973- Oh What a Night'. I can do that for you." (Yes, he actually said this in 2015!) My friend asked for how much and he said "$600.00" (So they were asking for $600 AFTER my friend had spent $1200 already on a demo produced and arranged by a man who has worked w/ everyone from Katy Perry to Kesha! I sensed that this publisher was hoping my friend was a naive and inexperienced struggling songwriter. (In actuality he had had 3 songs previously released and made some pretty impressive royalties). I couldn't help but think of how many unwitting or naive songwriters paid this publisher to have their demos re-done. Songwriters: never pay to have your songs published. If the publisher is convinced it's a hit he should not be asking for money from you! If he wants your tune he will pay to re-demo it. (P.S. My own online research on my friend's publisher revealed his company has never had a substantial hit song even after being in business for decades.)
Ouch, that sucks man..! 😅😅😅
Watch out for a company called Taxi.....Bad News......Trying to get a decent songwriting deal is near impossible. They have all the entry points covered. It will cost YOU money just to get your material seen and heard with no guarantees. Most publishing houses don't want indie writers at all or it seems like that. My song writing partner and myself tried for years to get a break but without a substantial amount of money upfront it was near impossible. Yeah we still write songs and record them as demos just in case but they will never see the light of day because its all stitched up. Have fun!
@@wideyxyz2271 Yes, they present themselves shrewdly with songwriters testifying about how they got a break from signing up with them, etc. Are they genuine and ethical? I don't know. There were hundreds of songwriters trying to get a break when I first moved to L.A. The National Academy of Songwriters, "American Songwriting" competitions, certain attorneys, and sometimes even formerly successful songwriters or lyricists presented themselves as being supportive of young songwriters, but I suspect some of them were just exploiting the flood of Hollywood dreamers in order to make an easy buck.Success stories were rare. I think the most despicable ones were and are the "songwriting contests". There is one right now being advertised on FB that , as usual, includes the word "American" in its contest name to make it sound wholesome or like "American Idol". This one is so bald in its intentions it doesn't even ask for a full song, just lyrics, which will effectively protect them from lawsuits yet allow them to lure anyone who has written a few lines on a napkin to enter. The music industry has always had loads of "bottom feeders". Pursue it as a hobby if you wish but don't torture yourself over it and do keep your day job (if you are so lucky as to have one right now). What's really "all-American" when it comes to show biz dreams? Financial exploitation, scams, liars, fake "publishers" with not track record whatsoever... be smart!
6:00 "Many of your favorite artists dont write their own songs"
Yes, they do. Thats why they are my favorite artists.
Same.
Same here
Ion know bout that one, drake my favorite and we all know about drakes ghost writers
There's no way to really know unless you yourself see them write the whole song
@@jesseteno It would be more difficult for them to get some rando to write a song.
I think a huge part of the issue is just people in general have had their money stretched so thin, and music has become something that most people take for granted. Major music fans still exist, we still buy albums and physical media, but the rise in popularity of digital streaming was always going to water down the income. Not to mention that most "popular" artists are just a face these days.
I support my favorite artists by buying physical copies of their music, following them on social media, pledging for their new album campaigns. That is the future of the industry, connect with the fans, cut out as much of the middle men as possible.
Check ot artists like: Die Happy, The Birthday Massacre, The Subways, Guano Apes, Silbermond...
I was an aspiring artist In the late 90s and early 2000s. Once I took the time to learn the business and found out the very facts that he is speaking about. I quickly bowed out left the rapper ambitions on the corner and went back to school.
Only 5% of artists generate a profit? Wow, A&R really suck at their jobs don’t they.
The whole industry is producing trash. If Billie Eilish is the best they can do there is no hope. Cinema is the same who wants to watch films that are all about racism, sexism and rape.
@@bighands69 Its not about topic its about quality.
m.th-cam.com/video/htAxPOj4jF0/w-d-xo.html&lc=Ugz2yAid53tdAW71Oal4AaABAg
The labels control the accounting numbers. The same could be said for Hollywood where no movie has made money.
@@orlock20 If they lose money, why do they keep making them?
That 'nine to five' doesn't sound so bad after all! Some will throw everything aside to become a 'personality' or a 'celebrity' no matter what it 'costs' them!!!
You should talk about ‘Hollywood Accounting’ next
Just upvoted this because I agree. ✌️
this would be an interesting topic to do a video on. I'll add it to the list.
Music Mafia swapping codes to put money into other account ive seen it first hand
Sweet deal when you can have a movie that grosses $1 billion dollars and not pay any taxes on it due to 'losses' in marketing, production and distribution by companies that you actually own.
@@Veaseify 😅💰😅💰😅
Independent Record Labels tend to be more Artist friendly then Major Labels
What are some independent record labels?
@@lilliesinthegard32 Some of the Independent Record Labels which I follow are C.I. Records, Red Cord Records, Capeside Records, Polyvinyl Records, Rottweiler Records, Safe Inside Records, Merge Records, Sancrosanct Records, A-F Records. There are a ton more labels I follow, being an audiophile I enjoy finding new up and coming artists through small independent labels.
@@EliBTR5.3 How to know if they are better to their artists? Genuinely curious because I heard independent labels are worse and put more pressure even
(Sorry english is not my first language)
@@lilliesinthegard32 Honestly it can be a crapshoot it just depends honestly on the label themselves. Victory Records is the #1 Independent Record Label here in the states but the owner of the label is a tyrant and there is a huge history of artists being held hostage by that label or just in general being promised things and those things not happening. Independent Record Labels are usually more artist friendly in that depending on the label and contract that is signed the artists are able to keep the rights to their music, as well they will have more control over what they want to put out on the label as well. Independent labels have their draw backs usually being smaller budgets but Independent labels generally will always be much more artist friendly to up and coming new artists versus corporate label that will just release most artists if they're not producing to their expectations.
@@EliBTR5.3 Thank u so much for explaining this to me
I’d say look into the way Hybe and Big Hit has handled BTS’ career. From training them and preparing them to for the industry, to keeping most things in-house and allowing the members of the group get their own studios within the record label’s building.
That's because they cleared off all the debt with the huge sum of money they made after they took off. Most of the reputable companies work that way, they'll spend whatever is required from forming the group to promotions and once you start making money and slowly clear off the debt, they'll start paying you / increase your salary
I had a deal. Seen what it was and literally quit rapping. I probably wasnt going to be the next Drake so it just wasn’t worth it. I was the most depressed i had ever been in my life.
We got your back on TH-cam.
Good for you for not falling into the trap. But don't quit king, if you love making music that is. do it as a side thing maybe you end up becoming popular. if yes then great and if not then it doesn't matter cuz it's a side thing you do for fun.
Who cares about rap?
Why would you never even try to gain traction from TH-cam?
@@mrshenanigans8487 It was before TH-cam was big like that. That’s why none of my stuff is really on here. MySpace was my era.
Growing up as an artist in the early 90s indie era, to me this stuff should be 101 for any aspiring talent. We have to get away from this "artist as innocent victim" narrative and teach younger musicians not to walk into anything with their eyes closed. In any line of business there are entities waiting to eat talent and trends for breakfast to make their buck. It's business. In this modern day artists have little excuse not to know better. Protect your art and don't walk into anything blind
: You're simplistic point of view omits the influence of family and ppl "the artist" trusts who convince them to "trust" the labels bc they want to benefit.
It happened to me, although it was back in the day. I waited out the contract, and never looked back.
There is, to be fair, an entire multi-trillion dollar industry devoted to convincing first children, then teenagers, then adults that the best possible job they can have in our society is to work for a large media conglomerate.
That includes housing as well. There's contracts in project housing. And they use tenants to feed info other services or create funding for themselves!!
@@andythedishwasher1117 nearly fooled me, thank God the streets kept me back..I thank them now.
@@RoyalBlood23 Not trying to say the streets are a better alternative. I just think that modern resources allow us to localize media production to be more relevant and helpful in smaller communities instead of culture being monopolized by a few metropolitan areas' idioms and local problems. In that way, older members of individual communities could make sophisticated artistic accounts of those communities that would help younger members navigate them safely and compassionately. That's in contrast to the current situation where people think they have to go to Hollywood, New York, Atlanta, or Nashville if they want a music career.
I released an LP independently on my own this year and my sales have dried up for now. Ok that sounds sad and yep I made no money (which is ok, cos I make a living teaching music anyway) but at least I made the album I wanted to without compromise and I don't owe ANYONE any money WHATSOEVER! I'm free!!!
Until modern culture is rejected none of this will change.
@@bighands69 modern culture constantly changes and evolves. This stuff hasn't changed since record labels have been made, and that's the issue. Nothing has changed.
I put my years in touring with artists as a stage manager/guitar/backline tech. Generally speaking, unless the artist is selling out arenas, the crew are making more than the band. Macklemore spoke the truth in "Jimmy Lovine"
Anyway, you ready? We’ll give you a hundred thousand dollars
After your album comes out, we’ll need back that money that you borrowed"
"So it’s really like a loan?"
"A loan?! Come on, no
We're a team, 360 degrees, we will reach your goals!
You'll get a third of the merch that you sell out on the road
Along with a third of the money you make when you’re out doing your shows
Manager gets twenty, booking agent gets ten
So shit, after taxes, you and Ryan have 7% to split!
That’s not bad, I’ve seen a lot worse
No one will give you a better offer than us"
"Mm-hm," I replied, "I appreciate the offer"
Thought that this is what I wanted
Rather be a starving artist
Than succeed at getting fucked
A lot of rappers say the music industry is just like the street drug industry SMH
More like prostitution.
Yup!
"Just remember that, it's a Grand Illusion, and deep inside we're all the same". Thank you Tommy Shaw and Styx for the warning!
Dennis DeYoung wrote that, not Shaw
@@jerviejervie2204: You are correct and I knew that. For some reason, I was thinking about"Angry Young Man, Fooling Yourself". Right album, at least.
In every industry, there are loan sharks waiting to convince newbies that in order to do anything big, they’ll need deep pockets. While this is often true, at least be honest & frame this as debt and that taking a huge controlling share of the masters is basically the same as a high interest %. I worked for a private bank that loaned small companies $ at 36% to be able to do large business deals. These clients were minutes away from a heart attack every day calling the office checking in.
I’d say, DIY and grow & invest in your own budget one concert/tour at a time. Then buy property, and then leverage that for a regular bank loan for which the interest % is at least known.
Tom Petty damn near bankrupted himself fighting for the rights to his music.
The original, and biggest lesson about this kind of thing is the relatively small amount of money The Beatles made, and the fact that they lost their songs to their publisher, Dick James (as did Elton John, to the same fellow).
And The Beatles (and they were really the only ones in their earning category) were paying 98% INCOME TAX IN THE UK in the late 60s (it was called 'Super Tax').
Then, the British Government taxed George Harrison ONE MILLION POUNDS in the early 70s for putting on the charity 'Concert for Bangladesh' - which he did in the U.S.!!!!
Margaret Thatcher taxed the Bandaid charity record.
TLC went broke when they were at No. 1 on Billboard in the 1990s; the examples are endless. David Coverdale was broke and in debt to the tune of several milliion dollars when Whitesnake finally hit big.
All the gold watches, jewelry, and cars are rented in Rap videos. Red carpet jewelry and dresses are on load for the most part for promotional.
companies just want the exposure
Well, yeah...
The key to success in the music business is to connect with a certain audience who will willingly buy your merch and stream your songs and go to your concerts.
You don't have to be a professional singer, guitarist, etc, but you have to show some degree of skill in whatever genre you play. Only do the music that you like and have fun playing. Never stop learning. Make sure that you're sounding like you and not like what others sound like.
Looks do sort of matter, so you have to dress with the style of music your aiming for, but don't go too far.
If artists weren't such show-offs and act as if they stand above everyone else, then maybe I could have some compassion for them.
Why would they sign such contracts? That’s what confuses me.
@@yaboi-km2qn Ofcourse they want money
@@WilliamFuckingButcher they don't just *want* money, they need money. Getting started with no connections and team is too hard and to get all that you need money. Now they think that the money they get from the labels will make them successful enough that you can pay it off but it's mostly not the case as you end up needing to pay back a shit ton. It's just wrong, can't blame the artists
Sounds like the Medical Insurance Industry
Jared Dines on TH-cam.
"I'm not selling millions of songs monthly with a record label but I'm keeping more money then radio artists so whatever."
Nobody is buying the music.
@@bighands69 yet he still makes more isnt that the funny part
Artistes, save your best work until the contract expires, then relaunch
This is exactly why I was so shocked and impressed by the group ICP after listening to an interview about their experiences with labels. You'd think that a gimmick band like Insane Clowns would be broke as a joke right now... but they actually found a way to maneuver around the record companies and mainstream outlets to keep the money they were making.
the TLC had already made a doc themselves long ago and it was so understandable
"All we want is your soul!" - Class of 3000
Andre knew what was up
3 stacks but no money stacks
Rock superstar by cypress hill spells the music industry