Angel: "I'd never hurt someone I care about." Buffy season 2: Buffy season 3: Angel season 1: Buffy season 4: Angel season 2: ....yeah, buddy. Not your strongest argument.
So, Wesley gets to survive but with one big catch, he doesn't get forgiveness. Wesley's path in character development has gone down a much darker path than you'd expect from that nerdy, uptight British guy who first showed up in Sunnydale.
Wesley thought he was doing the right thing but this was too major of a decision to make entirely on his own. He should've confided in the others about the signs he was getting. It was a bit hypocritical of him to keep that information to himself after he gave Gunn a warning for doing the same thing in "That Old Gang of Mine". I think if Cordelia had been around at the time, he would've told her before taking any action. He probably only saw Lorne as a house guest and not a fully trusted team member, and he's still harboring feelings about Fred and Gunns relationship and keeping some distance. But that's no excuse to keep everyone in the dark when they're supposed to operate as a team. As shocking as it was for Angel to attack Wesley, it is an understandable human response. Angel making sure he knows who's "in the driver's seat" before he attacks him was a nice personal touch. Though it was pretty obvious because "Angelus" never tried to kill someone out of anger, but pleasure. This was an act of pure rage from a father who just had the most important thing in the world taken from him by his best friend.
This arc was fascinating for me. Great fun for Uncle Wes. Just loads of interesting episodes. Oh the White Room. Cool. Creepy Little Girl. I like Angel consoling the innocent bystander. Nice twist. Road to hell is paved with good intentions. Wes should have been more skeptical about the prophecy.
You may be right about Wesley never being part of the team again. On the other hand, no one would have thought-even a few weeks ago-that things with Wesley would end up where they are right now. So you never know what might happen in the future.
Ooh boy, this a good one, but boy is it tough (I know that describes most Buffy and Angel episodes). That final scene is one of the best, but most shocking of the entire series and I love it. I absolutely adore how they lull you into a false sense of security, with Angel assuring Wesley that he hasn't turned evil, then bam! I love that he really wanted Wesley to know that it was Angel and not Angelus - it's such an incredible moment! We're really in the thick of things, now Jules. Let's just hope poor Wesley can catch a break.
“I’m the boss at this agency. You’ll have to talk to HR about assaulting your boss, and you’ve jeopardized any positive references for future job applications.”
It's time for more Angel today and ready to see what happens next especially with finding Connor have a wonderful week Thank You my Friend Juliette.🎄🇦🇺🎄
Under the circumstances, hoping but not hopeful makes perfect sense. This is it by the way: the prediction that the prophesy is not only false, but planted. Sahjhan rather than Wolfram & Hart, but closer than anyone else I've seen. W&H would make sense seeing as they were the ones that had the scroll, want Angel dark instead of dead, & they had already started feeding Angel Conner's blood. It fits. Lovely reaction, as always! Hope you have a wonderful week!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Yeah, it's a bit of an inconsistency you just have to go with. If Angel truly wanted to, he could kill Wesley easily and Gunn and some security guards aren't going to hold him back. Also, the fuck happened to that guy who got yeeted against thr wall? Did he ever sue Angel for injuries? Lol
4:02 That has to be the most hart breaking reason to not tell the other heroes about what's happening. If Angel calls Cordelia to tell her what happened to Connor then it's real, he can't bring himself to admit that this happened. He wants to fix it before he needs to tell anyone.
In Forgiving we see Justine being confronted by Fred and Gunn, and get great satisfaction when they are hitting her only for the awful Sahjhan to turn up. Even though we see Sahjhan just about to kill Angel, Justine manages to trap in back in the urn, even though she has done this we still feel we need revenge against her. Possibly one of the most dramatic scenes in the whole Buffyverse is when Angel tries to kill the defenceless Wesley in the hospital, once again the writers trying to show the metaphor of 'blood is thicker than water' and families act irrationally when it involves one of their own, even though Angel knows that Wesley was trying to protect both him and Connor. Angel even says to Wesley you know it's me Angel and not Angelus. A shocking ending to this episode but brilliant drama again.
“Oh, you want your baby boy back?” (/sarcasm) Those Panabaker sisters are talented. I can believe that the White Room girl was amoral, but also not to be messed with.
If Angel actually wanted Wesley dead, he could have snapped his neck in under a second. This was his rage and guilt at a high boil, with the steam being directed to make Wesley suffer. I thought Broreanaz did a great job. That fleck of foam in the corner of his mouth was a nice touch, to show that he lost rational control. If you’ve ever seen the original “12 Angry Men”, then you know that “I’ll kill you!” can be a sign of fury rather than a course of action.
As someone that's been watching horror since i was a kid there isn't much i find hard to watch but that sene with angel and Wesley in the hospital even i find hard to watch and knowing how close thay were it just breaks my heart to see it
I think Angel let the Orderlies pull him away because, while he did 100% want to kill Wesley, in his anger he hadn't found a way to truly pay him back for the betrayal. So the smothering was less of a true murder attempt and more of a statement of intent. He wants to kill Wesley, he's just not quite sure how yet. But he doesn't want it to be fast.
Can you envision any way to keep Wesley in the Buffyverse if he isn't working for Angel? Do you think Angel will make good on his promise to kill Wesley?
I suspected Angel wouldn't forgive Wes, but I didn't expect the attempted murder until he made sure Wes knew exactly who was talking. Well played, David.
I almost thought he would give him the "Don't come back or I'll kill you" talk or tell him the prophecy was a lie and leave him in his tears. But trying to kill Wesley sounds angry enough for him.
Hello, Jules. 💜 Another surprisingly tough one here. 🫢 Wesley? Yes, he should have talked with someone, but he also should not have put his faith in Holtz, over Angel. As Angel reminds him toward the end … Wesley was dealing with Angel, Holtz was stuck on Angelus - Wesley should have known better … had a little Faith. Wesley should have spoken with Cordelia, about his fears, instead of those times he wasted discussing Fred with her. She would have stuck up for Angel, as much as Lorne would have dissuaded Wesley from his actions. Even though Lorne, said long ago, that he is prevented from giving exact details of paths and outcomes, he would still have, probably, been able to sow some seeds of doubt, with Wesley over the wisdom and outcomes of his plan. Even Fred, who would have given guidance with both issues - Angel, and the kidnapping. He certainly had a perfect example sitting in front of him - Holtz, was so desperate for revenge he turned to a demon for help - a killer of demons, he gave up, and used them as a path to revenge. In a similar way, Wesley, knowing full well that Holtz was now unbalanced and mad, turned to him for an answer to his problem, even though he had plenty of foreknowledge how that would turn out, if he had only thought about the consequences, and not been so sure he was correct, and had only one option. The same old Wes, hiding under the new, improved person he appeared to be, with Angel Investigations. Instead he sort of became a new Holtz, making a snowballing cascade of misery, for those he knows. 🤔 What was the heartbreaker, for me, was the hopeful look on your face, as you were so sure the nightmare events were on the verge of being corrected - as at 4:42, and throughout the episode, with the slam, bang ending. 🥲 Unexpected, indeed. 😲 A great script - and I liked Lorne’s line to Lilah - “Not speaking would be a really good look for you.” 🤣 Have a great day, Jules. 💜🤗💜Get out, wave at the rooftop, relax with a little crime scene cleaner viewing, just enjoy the time. 😅
I have a son and i can honestly say without hesitation ,i would have done the same as angel except i would have ended the job right then and their. I'm a mama bear and i wouldn't let anyone live if something happened to my son. As a teenager i didn't get angels actions but now i do.
Yes I've seen the whole series, but .... If Jules believes that Wes is being written out of Angel, would he return to Sunnydale or maybe get his own series? Pure conjecture here.
![Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring [Extended] Reaction](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G-g9Ilx3XrQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You couldn't really expect Angel to forgive Wes that easily...still, that ending was a shocker to watch! Amazing acting by David Boreanaz!
Angel: "I'd never hurt someone I care about."
Buffy season 2:
Buffy season 3:
Angel season 1:
Buffy season 4:
Angel season 2:
....yeah, buddy. Not your strongest argument.
16:47 The ending was very unexpected but also really great. :)
The show only gets better from here!
So, Wesley gets to survive but with one big catch, he doesn't get forgiveness. Wesley's path in character development has gone down a much darker path than you'd expect from that nerdy, uptight British guy who first showed up in Sunnydale.
I like that Angel let Wesley (and the audience) know it was him and not Angelus. His grief gets the better of him and he goes postal.
There's something so primal about the use of "Pryce" and its stuck with me since i first watched this episode over 20 years ago
This arc is partly why I don't get people saying not to watch Angel. And miss this type of development?!
Wesley thought he was doing the right thing but this was too major of a decision to make entirely on his own. He should've confided in the others about the signs he was getting.
It was a bit hypocritical of him to keep that information to himself after he gave Gunn a warning for doing the same thing in "That Old Gang of Mine".
I think if Cordelia had been around at the time, he would've told her before taking any action. He probably only saw Lorne as a house guest and not a fully trusted team member, and he's still harboring feelings about Fred and Gunns relationship and keeping some distance. But that's no excuse to keep everyone in the dark when they're supposed to operate as a team.
As shocking as it was for Angel to attack Wesley, it is an understandable human response. Angel making sure he knows who's "in the driver's seat" before he attacks him was a nice personal touch. Though it was pretty obvious because "Angelus" never tried to kill someone out of anger, but pleasure. This was an act of pure rage from a father who just had the most important thing in the world taken from him by his best friend.
I knew that ending was going to shake you! 😂
FOR REAL! 🙀🙀
This arc was fascinating for me. Great fun for Uncle Wes. Just loads of interesting episodes.
Oh the White Room. Cool. Creepy Little Girl.
I like Angel consoling the innocent bystander.
Nice twist. Road to hell is paved with good intentions. Wes should have been more skeptical about the prophecy.
The end is always my favorite
David boreanz acting in this episode is brilliant
That ending was like.... am I watching this for real... SO GOOD. Guess guys who suffer for 100 years do hold a grudge
You may be right about Wesley never being part of the team again. On the other hand, no one would have thought-even a few weeks ago-that things with Wesley would end up where they are right now. So you never know what might happen in the future.
Anger, denial, acceptance...geez, I think you went through all 12 stages of grief during the opening credits.
Ooh boy, this a good one, but boy is it tough (I know that describes most Buffy and Angel episodes). That final scene is one of the best, but most shocking of the entire series and I love it. I absolutely adore how they lull you into a false sense of security, with Angel assuring Wesley that he hasn't turned evil, then bam! I love that he really wanted Wesley to know that it was Angel and not Angelus - it's such an incredible moment!
We're really in the thick of things, now Jules. Let's just hope poor Wesley can catch a break.
I always loved that ending. So effective.
I reckon Wesley came into work the next day like “what’s up you guys” 😂
“I’m the boss at this agency. You’ll have to talk to HR about assaulting your boss, and you’ve jeopardized any positive references for future job applications.”
It's time for more Angel today and ready to see what happens next especially with finding Connor have a wonderful week Thank You
my Friend Juliette.🎄🇦🇺🎄
Under the circumstances, hoping but not hopeful makes perfect sense. This is it by the way: the prediction that the prophesy is not only false, but planted. Sahjhan rather than Wolfram & Hart, but closer than anyone else I've seen. W&H would make sense seeing as they were the ones that had the scroll, want Angel dark instead of dead, & they had already started feeding Angel Conner's blood. It fits.
Lovely reaction, as always! Hope you have a wonderful week!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Hello Mrs Jules! Love your work on the second channel. Superb work!
They were lucky in that hospital room that Angel hold his strength back, otherwise they all would be dead in there.
Yeah, it's a bit of an inconsistency you just have to go with. If Angel truly wanted to, he could kill Wesley easily and Gunn and some security guards aren't going to hold him back. Also, the fuck happened to that guy who got yeeted against thr wall? Did he ever sue Angel for injuries? Lol
I would have screamed if Angel forgave Wesley. Sorry he just lost his son and IT WAS WESLEY’S FAULT. That would have been super unrealistic.
4:02 That has to be the most hart breaking reason to not tell the other heroes about what's happening. If Angel calls Cordelia to tell her what happened to Connor then it's real, he can't bring himself to admit that this happened. He wants to fix it before he needs to tell anyone.
In Forgiving we see Justine being confronted by Fred and Gunn, and get great satisfaction when they are hitting her only for the awful Sahjhan to turn up. Even though we see Sahjhan just about to kill Angel, Justine manages to trap in back in the urn, even though she has done this we still feel we need revenge against her. Possibly one of the most dramatic scenes in the whole Buffyverse is when Angel tries to kill the defenceless Wesley in the hospital, once again the writers trying to show the metaphor of 'blood is thicker than water' and families act irrationally when it involves one of their own, even though Angel knows that Wesley was trying to protect both him and Connor. Angel even says to Wesley you know it's me Angel and not Angelus. A shocking ending to this episode but brilliant drama again.
“Oh, you want your baby boy back?” (/sarcasm)
Those Panabaker sisters are talented. I can believe that the White Room girl was amoral, but also not to be messed with.
17:10 🤔No way! This has to be a dream or something Angel would never do that.
Thanks so much Juliette 🥰Hope you have a wonderful night!
It's all just gone SO BADLY 😭😭
I was waiting for this moment. That was one hell of a shocking ending when I saw it back then. A seriously amazing arc.
If Angel actually wanted Wesley dead, he could have snapped his neck in under a second.
This was his rage and guilt at a high boil, with the steam being directed to make Wesley suffer.
I thought Broreanaz did a great job. That fleck of foam in the corner of his mouth was a nice touch, to show that he lost rational control.
If you’ve ever seen the original “12 Angry Men”, then you know that “I’ll kill you!” can be a sign of fury rather than a course of action.
Your Buffyverse reactions always make my day!
As someone that's been watching horror since i was a kid there isn't much i find hard to watch but that sene with angel and Wesley in the hospital even i find hard to watch and knowing how close thay were it just breaks my heart to see it
Emotional violence and its consequences can be far more horrifying than the physical variety.
I think Angel let the Orderlies pull him away because, while he did 100% want to kill Wesley, in his anger he hadn't found a way to truly pay him back for the betrayal. So the smothering was less of a true murder attempt and more of a statement of intent. He wants to kill Wesley, he's just not quite sure how yet. But he doesn't want it to be fast.
Definitely one of the standout moments of the entire series. I'd say more but y'know.
Can you envision any way to keep Wesley in the Buffyverse if he isn't working for Angel? Do you think Angel will make good on his promise to kill Wesley?
From a writing standpoint when I watched this the 1st time I knew they'd have the homeless guy rob him and leave him for dead.
I suspected Angel wouldn't forgive Wes, but I didn't expect the attempted murder until he made sure Wes knew exactly who was talking. Well played, David.
I almost thought he would give him the "Don't come back or I'll kill you" talk or tell him the prophecy was a lie and leave him in his tears. But trying to kill Wesley sounds angry enough for him.
Hello, Jules. 💜
Another surprisingly tough one here. 🫢
Wesley? Yes, he should have talked with someone, but he also should not have put his faith in Holtz, over Angel. As Angel reminds him toward the end … Wesley was dealing with Angel, Holtz was stuck on Angelus - Wesley should have known better … had a little Faith.
Wesley should have spoken with Cordelia, about his fears, instead of those times he wasted discussing Fred with her.
She would have stuck up for Angel, as much as Lorne would have dissuaded Wesley from his actions.
Even though Lorne, said long ago, that he is prevented from giving exact details of paths and outcomes, he would still have, probably, been able to sow some seeds of doubt, with Wesley over the wisdom and outcomes of his plan.
Even Fred, who would have given guidance with both issues - Angel, and the kidnapping.
He certainly had a perfect example sitting in front of him - Holtz, was so desperate for revenge he turned to a demon for help - a killer of demons, he gave up, and used them as a path to revenge. In a similar way, Wesley, knowing full well that Holtz was now unbalanced and mad, turned to him for an answer to his problem, even though he had plenty of foreknowledge how that would turn out, if he had only thought about the consequences, and not been so sure he was correct, and had only one option. The same old Wes, hiding under the new, improved person he appeared to be, with Angel Investigations.
Instead he sort of became a new Holtz, making a snowballing cascade of misery, for those he knows. 🤔
What was the heartbreaker, for me, was the hopeful look on your face, as you were so sure the nightmare events were on the verge of being corrected - as at 4:42, and throughout the episode, with the slam, bang ending. 🥲
Unexpected, indeed. 😲
A great script - and I liked Lorne’s line to Lilah - “Not speaking would be a really good look for you.” 🤣
Have a great day, Jules. 💜🤗💜Get out, wave at the rooftop, relax with a little crime scene cleaner viewing, just enjoy the time. 😅
👏👏🙌🙌👋👋✨✨⭐⭐🌟🌟🌠🌠
JULES
if you liked the episode of
ANGEL
the RING
you should watch the
STAR TREK : VOYAGER episode
TSUNKATSE
My favorite ending of an episode in this series. GET HIM ANGEL!
I have a son and i can honestly say without hesitation ,i would have done the same as angel except i would have ended the job right then and their.
I'm a mama bear and i wouldn't let anyone live if something happened to my son.
As a teenager i didn't get angels actions but now i do.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
I don’t know why this episode is called Forgiving 😅😅 it should have been called unexpected 😂
It feels to me like it's called "forgiving" to throw us off how it might end.
Yes I've seen the whole series, but ....
If Jules believes that Wes is being written out of Angel, would he return to Sunnydale or maybe get his own series? Pure conjecture here.