This video takes this old man back to the late 60's and early 70's when I did this same process to my 2stroke race bikes. I have been using electric yard tools for a long time. I just bought a 2stroke trimmer so I could smell some castor oil burning. Then I got sidetracked to saws and now I am down that rabbit hole. I have enjoyed your video!
Stihl guy here, but building myself a couple of 372's with the same Hyway kits.This type of cylinder is a little different for me, but this video is a great help. Thank you. 👍
Yes tinman! You've Been a big part of my porting journey so far. I rate those BB hyway cylinders. Done a few on my channel with them. Take it steady man 👍
Your explanation and actual work is first class on porting a chain saw. Details are important for most of us who are not familiar with porting saws. 👍. Blessings to you on your trip to the Bunyan my friend. 🙏♥️👍
Good video! Hyway actually have big transfers for the EX at 100. I calculate port area timing using my CNC to probe there exact width and model the cylinder in Fusion. Then run the numbers through a spreadsheet that uses Gordon Jennings calculations. On the cylinder I just did I left the transfers totally stock and the exhaust for that matter although the port was lope sided and needed the left side widened out to balance it up. Unfortunately the plating was chipping badly and only a Dimond could safely be used so I opted to leave the Exhaust alone. Anyhow the transfers were fine by the calculation but the Exhaust did need to be widened to get it right so there is an imbalance there still. The stock intake is too small. I did a lot of piston work and some lower transfer and basically deburr. The intake got widened and lowered to 79 ATDC. The real issue with the Hyway is the dirty great grove at the to of the cylinder. If you cut the combustion chamber and deck the cylinder it will drop the ring in the groove. For this reason I cut the cylinder head off and CNC a new head up. As I was building the head from scratch I had a clean sheet to design my own combustion chamber. I opted for a 13degree squish band with 43% area and a shallow combustion chamber of 32mm dia with a 4mm rad chamfer. I calculated my volume using my spreadsheet and designed in Fusion at 10.5:1 compression ratio and then CNC the whole thing. It come out beautiful. 10.5:1 is very stout to pull over. I had to cut the 13 degree squish into the top of the piston as well. As I had not cut the base this effectively raised my stock exhaust and transfer numbers but the blowdown was stock. Even so I ended up with Ex 100 and trans at 121. For sometime I have been suspicious the carb is too small but the Tillerson 390 carb is very little bigger. I had a 660 carb so I 3D Printed a new intake and fitted the 660 carb which is 1mm bigger in the bore. I have extended the intake take by 43mm on the centerline and this has added resonance at about 10k rpm this feels very much like a powerband from a tuned pipe. The muffler has also been modified by adding a 72mm port shaped tube inside the stock muffler. The idea here is to trap any fresh air fuel that gets blown out of the exhaust port largely uncontaminated by exhaust gas so when it sucks back its gets as best as possible fuel air mix. In theory this is a thing in reality I have not noticed much on my other saws. However on this build along with all the other shit I have done I think I'm seeing some gains. The end result is this saw is off its head fast, all while running pump gas. I have a lot of work to do now to package it all up. I don't want to give up any of the gains I have with the intake so I will design a new Air filter and 3D print a new top hat and modify the top cover to accommodate the center mounted spark plug and and I will need to raise the airbox to house the intake and carb. In the end this will be a very tidy and presentable work saw. I have every intent of beating this thing to death at every opportunity. I don't want a race saw that can only run for a short time I want a saw that runs like a race saw as this does but I can use all day. It was a huge amount of work but happy with the result. Just disappointed with the cylinder. There was no sign of chipping in your cylinder I note. Maybe its a quality control thing. As far as I can tell all the aftermarket stuff is pretty average. I was a big fan of meteor but they have clearly done a deal with Hyway, I guess you will get a good piston with the Meteor kit. As I really want to stick with the 52mm I have been searching for another after market kit that has actual Nikasil plating. I may have found one so I'll order that to see what they are like but if anyone reading this has a good suggestion please let me know. You have a good channel Tinman, keep up the good work.
P.S If you would like to try a cylinder head I'd make you one. You can come up with a recipe that you think would suit your build, I'll cad it up and you can see it before I cut it. Then easily cut the head off and drop the head on. Seriously, now that I have done it I don't think I'll build another saw for myself any other way. I have never got this much power out of a 372. Not even close. This thing runs like a motocross bike.
@@toast47624all the power is in the head ! Just limited by heat - a two piece removable head with various domes ala banshee cool head wood allow you to swap domes to suit application - from a Hotwoods all day ripper on pump gas … to a full out racer (hi octane fuel) - I only have a manual lathe but have experimented with this and the power increase is phenomenal! FAR superior to just cutting squish and base or just using a thinner base gasket - like I said “all the powa is in the head” tuned intake and exhaust achieving resonance doesn’t hurt performance either 😉
@@fabzacres-blackcat For a while now I have been cutting the combustion chamber with the CNC and it certainly has helped. The issue I kept having was you end up with a contradiction in configuration. You would have a combustion chamber better suited in shape for mid range torque but drop the intake so far it would ultimately wanted to run faster which meant raising the ex port about 5 degrees then of course you lowered the compression ratio again and had to cut more. Hence I ended up mapping the cylinders so I knew exactly what I had before I started. In the end I arrived at a best compromise between combustion chamber shape and port map. Yes it worked and quite well and I've ported these things every which way and configuration but in the end you are limited as to what you can get. Meanwhile my sons KTM 50 is pushing 12hp. WTF? My saw is 76cc and maybe 8 ported. Some bastard has robbed me of about 10hp. I want it back! So I'm on a quest to find it. I'll end up building a dyno to properly test these things. As I was building this Hyway cylinder over the last week I had pretty low expectations as I did not port the cylinder very much at all. But I was able to get the port numbers I wanted and for the first time I was able to get the compression ratio up to 10.5:1. I gave it a couple of heat cycles then punched it too full throttle and the response was pretty breath taking. Fair to say it made me grin. Clearly you have played this game before me and you have worked out that there is far more in the head than I previously gave credit. To off set the heat I have very carefully designed the head to fill the void under the cover and cut fins in the top to aid cooling. It must be working because the O-ring I have sealing the head is only rated to 200C and it's holding up fine. I have some better O-rings on order but for now while I'm still testing these will be fine. Certainly there seems to be some sort of resonance going on. If I remove the air filter duct the saw runs awful. So it seems my best guess was somewhere in the ball park for intake design. It is a rather odd experience to run the saw. The top end appears to have no end. I need to get another tac but I'd guess it's pulling 16-18k. It seems to keep building rpm. To be honest I let go before it peaks out. I know what I did to the piston and I don't think there is enough left of it to handle what ever peak rpm is and it's a Hyway pot metal piston. I destroyed a saw a few years back piss revving, bit shy of it now.😆 I do have a 272 Meteor here but they are different so I will use that in my next build. I need to deck the cylinder higher to make them work but I may use them in the future. I fully expect this Hyway to implode before too long. The other thing is the bore is .05mm smaller at the bottom than the top FFS. I wish Meteor of old made a 52mm kit.
Your getting me excited to get my new hyway cylinder for my 046 from Ryan at wolf creek. Also, your discount with him is awesome and hes an awesome dude to deal with on the phone
All I can say your videos got me into porting got a nwp crank hwy cylinder and a 272piston to put into my 372 I know everyone say oem but dang price and availability of oem cant beat the hwy when I get my saw going I'll have to send you a video thanks again for all the info you share teach and show all of us it is greatly appreciated! Oh and i did use wolf creek.
I’m seriously serious folks!!! This is some of the best plating that I’ve ever ground!!! LMFFAO!!! I’m definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed either and I’m just like a little kid on Christmas when I’ve finished a cylinder that goes super smooth and turns out perfectly!!! LMFFAO! I’ve been a huge fan of the regular Hyway topend kits and I’ve only found them great aside from the titanikel issues I’ve had flake off and kill a few… love Hyway part’s for sure
I just installed a Hyway top end in the FT 372XP, and I'm happy with it, no complaints performancewise, but I did note that a base gasket delete was not possible, piston hit top of cylinder. So it's gasket at the base, to give me 0.020" squish, and it runs purty strong, pulling a 28" full comp w/o much difficulty.
I have tried two of the exact same cylinders, doing very close to the same porting. On both cylinders the plating actually lifted off, it peeled off like it was just a pop can inside. the first one I thought I was doing something wrong (And I may have been) second one started peeling after first start up and was no where near where I did any work.
Haven’t got to watch in quite some time but you always do an excellent job with you camera and explaining things in a clear way also not assuming everyone know what your talking about. Thank you
Generally, removing material on the 'cylinder-wall' side of port towards the turn is a bad idea as the fuel/air mix will follow the wall and can't turn through a sharp edged port which reduces high speed flow If there is enough material on the outside wall, your better off deepening that side to make port more rounded.
I ported a 372 big bore, I found that when I pressed on the intake side of the piston skirt, it would fall into the intake port, and make a clunk going up and down. Have you noticed that before?
I just finished my g372 the outer day. °8 taper chamber °7 piston. 0.130 off the bace 227psi compression. Has very similar port numbers to yours it's a beast lol. There's a video in my channel.
Wood saw chips mixed with rock salt, I tried it on an icy road and it works pretty decent. I'm in no physical shape to do much in the way of tough stuff
Nice work Tinman! And thanks for the 372xp info. I'm guessing that's not the Titan nickel that people says the plating will flake off when you grind. Thanks again...
@@tinmanssaws hasn't been my best year...in January my sister passed and up until a few weeks ago, been dealing with some depression. I'm on the mend, working on porting a 372xp xtorq with BB pop up but brittle titan nickel cylinder. Chainsaws have been a wonderful distraction for me. But this too shall pass, one day at a time...
Hey man, this is great. Studying these porting videos!! think you mentioned before but what cutters are using? Need to get stuck in with some porting but don't know which to buy!! TIA
Tinman, how many rings are you going to run, 1 or 2? Run 1 in the top ring groove so that WE can see just how well it runs and THEN tear it apart and show us the different way that it runs with 2. Show us on a log with the time difference as well. PLEASE 😊
I have a 562 that the intake ramp thats on the piston side that are sharp and the metal is curling towards the carb side. Is there a reason for that? I havent pulled the cylinder yet.
I'm a stranger to saws ( but not 2 strokes, ) what's the hole in the cylinder wall for up near the squish band? I don't think it was there on the stock one
So you don’t recommend going for their titanikel cylinders over the standard ones for porting is my main take away here, are those too hard? Just curious, because they looked beautifully plated from what I’ve seen
Hi tinman I’m trying to learn to port by watching your channel I ground on a cylinder and my results were a saw that runs so rich it doesn’t really run I didn’t change the intake or exhaust timing I just cleaned everything up and widened the exhaust would my grinding cause that ?
Yes I rebuild the carb and it’s not really changing much when I adjust it I have checked for air leaks using the carb spray method there doesn’t seem to be any I’m kinda stumped
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This video takes this old man back to the late 60's and early 70's when I did this same process to my 2stroke race bikes. I have been using electric yard tools for a long time. I just bought a 2stroke trimmer so I could smell some castor oil burning. Then I got sidetracked to saws and now I am down that rabbit hole. I have enjoyed your video!
Stihl guy here, but building myself a couple of 372's with the same Hyway kits.This type of cylinder is a little different for me, but this video is a great help. Thank you. 👍
Yes tinman! You've Been a big part of my porting journey so far. I rate those BB hyway cylinders. Done a few on my channel with them. Take it steady man 👍
Dude this is exactly what I emailed you this morning Holy cow. Love it see you at Bunyan can't wait to see that cylinder ❤
Heyyy Tinman! Been following this 372 build series and am getting really excited to see this saw come together!
Your explanation and actual work is first class on porting a chain saw. Details are important for most of us who are not familiar with porting saws. 👍. Blessings to you on your trip to the Bunyan my friend. 🙏♥️👍
Good video!
Hyway actually have big transfers for the EX at 100. I calculate port area timing using my CNC to probe there exact width and model the cylinder in Fusion. Then run the numbers through a spreadsheet that uses Gordon Jennings calculations. On the cylinder I just did I left the transfers totally stock and the exhaust for that matter although the port was lope sided and needed the left side widened out to balance it up. Unfortunately the plating was chipping badly and only a Dimond could safely be used so I opted to leave the Exhaust alone. Anyhow the transfers were fine by the calculation but the Exhaust did need to be widened to get it right so there is an imbalance there still. The stock intake is too small. I did a lot of piston work and some lower transfer and basically deburr. The intake got widened and lowered to 79 ATDC.
The real issue with the Hyway is the dirty great grove at the to of the cylinder. If you cut the combustion chamber and deck the cylinder it will drop the ring in the groove. For this reason I cut the cylinder head off and CNC a new head up. As I was building the head from scratch I had a clean sheet to design my own combustion chamber. I opted for a 13degree squish band with 43% area and a shallow combustion chamber of 32mm dia with a 4mm rad chamfer. I calculated my volume using my spreadsheet and designed in Fusion at 10.5:1 compression ratio and then CNC the whole thing. It come out beautiful. 10.5:1 is very stout to pull over.
I had to cut the 13 degree squish into the top of the piston as well. As I had not cut the base this effectively raised my stock exhaust and transfer numbers but the blowdown was stock. Even so I ended up with Ex 100 and trans at 121.
For sometime I have been suspicious the carb is too small but the Tillerson 390 carb is very little bigger. I had a 660 carb so I 3D Printed a new intake and fitted the 660 carb which is 1mm bigger in the bore. I have extended the intake take by 43mm on the centerline and this has added resonance at about 10k rpm this feels very much like a powerband from a tuned pipe.
The muffler has also been modified by adding a 72mm port shaped tube inside the stock muffler. The idea here is to trap any fresh air fuel that gets blown out of the exhaust port largely uncontaminated by exhaust gas so when it sucks back its gets as best as possible fuel air mix. In theory this is a thing in reality I have not noticed much on my other saws. However on this build along with all the other shit I have done I think I'm seeing some gains.
The end result is this saw is off its head fast, all while running pump gas. I have a lot of work to do now to package it all up. I don't want to give up any of the gains I have with the intake so I will design a new Air filter and 3D print a new top hat and modify the top cover to accommodate the center mounted spark plug and and I will need to raise the airbox to house the intake and carb. In the end this will be a very tidy and presentable work saw. I have every intent of beating this thing to death at every opportunity. I don't want a race saw that can only run for a short time I want a saw that runs like a race saw as this does but I can use all day. It was a huge amount of work but happy with the result.
Just disappointed with the cylinder. There was no sign of chipping in your cylinder I note. Maybe its a quality control thing. As far as I can tell all the aftermarket stuff is pretty average. I was a big fan of meteor but they have clearly done a deal with Hyway, I guess you will get a good piston with the Meteor kit. As I really want to stick with the 52mm I have been searching for another after market kit that has actual Nikasil plating. I may have found one so I'll order that to see what they are like but if anyone reading this has a good suggestion please let me know.
You have a good channel Tinman, keep up the good work.
P.S If you would like to try a cylinder head I'd make you one. You can come up with a recipe that you think would suit your build, I'll cad it up and you can see it before I cut it. Then easily cut the head off and drop the head on. Seriously, now that I have done it I don't think I'll build another saw for myself any other way. I have never got this much power out of a 372. Not even close. This thing runs like a motocross bike.
@@toast47624all the power is in the head ! Just limited by heat - a two piece removable head with various domes ala banshee cool head wood allow you to swap domes to suit application - from a Hotwoods all day ripper on pump gas … to a full out racer (hi octane fuel) - I only have a manual lathe but have experimented with this and the power increase is phenomenal! FAR superior to just cutting squish and base or just using a thinner base gasket - like I said “all the powa is in the head” tuned intake and exhaust achieving resonance doesn’t hurt performance either 😉
@@fabzacres-blackcat For a while now I have been cutting the combustion chamber with the CNC and it certainly has helped. The issue I kept having was you end up with a contradiction in configuration. You would have a combustion chamber better suited in shape for mid range torque but drop the intake so far it would ultimately wanted to run faster which meant raising the ex port about 5 degrees then of course you lowered the compression ratio again and had to cut more. Hence I ended up mapping the cylinders so I knew exactly what I had before I started. In the end I arrived at a best compromise between combustion chamber shape and port map. Yes it worked and quite well and I've ported these things every which way and configuration but in the end you are limited as to what you can get. Meanwhile my sons KTM 50 is pushing 12hp. WTF? My saw is 76cc and maybe 8 ported. Some bastard has robbed me of about 10hp. I want it back! So I'm on a quest to find it. I'll end up building a dyno to properly test these things.
As I was building this Hyway cylinder over the last week I had pretty low expectations as I did not port the cylinder very much at all. But I was able to get the port numbers I wanted and for the first time I was able to get the compression ratio up to 10.5:1. I gave it a couple of heat cycles then punched it too full throttle and the response was pretty breath taking. Fair to say it made me grin. Clearly you have played this game before me and you have worked out that there is far more in the head than I previously gave credit. To off set the heat I have very carefully designed the head to fill the void under the cover and cut fins in the top to aid cooling. It must be working because the O-ring I have sealing the head is only rated to 200C and it's holding up fine. I have some better O-rings on order but for now while I'm still testing these will be fine.
Certainly there seems to be some sort of resonance going on. If I remove the air filter duct the saw runs awful. So it seems my best guess was somewhere in the ball park for intake design. It is a rather odd experience to run the saw. The top end appears to have no end. I need to get another tac but I'd guess it's pulling 16-18k. It seems to keep building rpm. To be honest I let go before it peaks out. I know what I did to the piston and I don't think there is enough left of it to handle what ever peak rpm is and it's a Hyway pot metal piston. I destroyed a saw a few years back piss revving, bit shy of it now.😆 I do have a 272 Meteor here but they are different so I will use that in my next build. I need to deck the cylinder higher to make them work but I may use them in the future. I fully expect this Hyway to implode before too long. The other thing is the bore is .05mm smaller at the bottom than the top FFS. I wish Meteor of old made a 52mm kit.
Your getting me excited to get my new hyway cylinder for my 046 from Ryan at wolf creek. Also, your discount with him is awesome and hes an awesome dude to deal with on the phone
All I can say your videos got me into porting got a nwp crank hwy cylinder and a 272piston to put into my 372 I know everyone say oem but dang price and availability of oem cant beat the hwy when I get my saw going I'll have to send you a video thanks again for all the info you share teach and show all of us it is greatly appreciated! Oh and i did use wolf creek.
Very informative Tinman . Love it buddy. That’s my next build a big bore 372 . Thanks for sharing ✊🏻🇦🇺
I’m seriously serious folks!!! This is some of the best plating that I’ve ever ground!!! LMFFAO!!! I’m definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed either and I’m just like a little kid on Christmas when I’ve finished a cylinder that goes super smooth and turns out perfectly!!! LMFFAO! I’ve been a huge fan of the regular Hyway topend kits and I’ve only found them great aside from the titanikel issues I’ve had flake off and kill a few… love Hyway part’s for sure
That's some tidy grinding on that there intake
Cool stuff
Hi Tinman, keep up the good work. I am new to this and learning heaps form you.
I just installed a Hyway top end in the FT 372XP, and I'm happy with it, no complaints performancewise, but I did note that a base gasket delete was not possible, piston hit top of cylinder. So it's gasket at the base, to give me 0.020" squish, and it runs purty strong, pulling a 28" full comp w/o much difficulty.
I have tried two of the exact same cylinders, doing very close to the same porting. On both cylinders the plating actually lifted off, it peeled off like it was just a pop can inside. the first one I thought I was doing something wrong (And I may have been) second one started peeling after first start up and was no where near where I did any work.
Been waiting for this one, thanks!
Have a 371xpg, which will be my next project. TC Mahalo Tinman 🤙🤙🤙
Very nice !!!
Haven’t got to watch in quite some time but you always do an excellent job with you camera and explaining things in a clear way also not assuming everyone know what your talking about. Thank you
Good job bud
Generally, removing material on the 'cylinder-wall' side of port towards the turn is a bad idea as the fuel/air mix will follow the wall and can't turn through a sharp edged port which reduces high speed flow
If there is enough material on the outside wall, your better off deepening that side to make port more rounded.
I ported a 372 big bore, I found that when I pressed on the intake side of the piston skirt, it would fall into the intake port, and make a clunk going up and down. Have you noticed that before?
I just finished my g372 the outer day. °8 taper chamber °7 piston. 0.130 off the bace 227psi compression. Has very similar port numbers to yours it's a beast lol. There's a video in my channel.
Would you mind posting a link to the new tooling you are using? Just got an offbrand fordom and trying to decide what to buy for burrs. Thanks.
Hey how do you like using the opti2 oil for your gas mix
Wood saw chips mixed with rock salt, I tried it on an icy road and it works pretty decent. I'm in no physical shape to do much in the way of tough stuff
Nice work Tinman! And thanks for the 372xp info. I'm guessing that's not the Titan nickel that people says the plating will flake off when you grind. Thanks again...
Chuck buddy where you been?? Seems like forever since I seen you here!! Good to have you back!!
@@tinmanssaws hasn't been my best year...in January my sister passed and up until a few weeks ago, been dealing with some depression. I'm on the mend, working on porting a 372xp xtorq with BB pop up but brittle titan nickel cylinder. Chainsaws have been a wonderful distraction for me. But this too shall pass, one day at a time...
They are correct on the titanikel cylinder. We won't grind on them at all now in our shop. The regular hyway seems to be ok
Hey man, this is great. Studying these porting videos!!
think you mentioned before but what cutters are using? Need to get stuck in with some porting but don't know which to buy!! TIA
would that cylinder with these big primary not gain from using a windowed piston?
Tinman, how many rings are you going to run, 1 or 2? Run 1 in the top ring groove so that WE can see just how well it runs and THEN tear it apart and show us the different way that it runs with 2. Show us on a log with the time difference as well.
PLEASE 😊
Is that the Nikasil cylinder?
I have a 562 that the intake ramp thats on the piston side that are sharp and the metal is curling towards the carb side. Is there a reason for that? I havent pulled the cylinder yet.
Woohoo! Love FNS!
TinMan!!! What cutters are you using that you spoke about?!?
I'm a stranger to saws ( but not 2 strokes, ) what's the hole in the cylinder wall for up near the squish band? I don't think it was there on the stock one
That's the hole for the decomp
So you don’t recommend going for their titanikel cylinders over the standard ones for porting is my main take away here, are those too hard? Just curious, because they looked beautifully plated from what I’ve seen
I've ported those titanickel cylinders. They were very hard but I will say I had no issues with them.
Hi tinman I’m trying to learn to port by watching your channel I ground on a cylinder and my results were a saw that runs so rich it doesn’t really run I didn’t change the intake or exhaust timing I just cleaned everything up and widened the exhaust would my grinding cause that ?
Have ypu adjusted the carb since you ported it?
Yes I rebuild the carb and it’s not really changing much when I adjust it I have checked for air leaks using the carb spray method there doesn’t seem to be any I’m kinda stumped
Hey tinman is a Husky 141 worth getting ported and reworked it's a 1997or 98 model and no compression it'used up
TinMan, What is the setup you use to shave the cylinder Base surface?
1950 Colchester master 13x36 lathe
Are those the 50 or 52 mm cylinders you have?
52mm
On the “Ladybugs”: red is a Ladybug but ORANGE is the Asian version that is an invasive species, probably the one that bites as well 😢
Di mana kalau mau beli boring hywey itu bro
Do you think I can use one ring on a two ring piston , would there be a downside.
I pretty much only use one ring, no issues to report so far.
@@tinmanssaws thanks, planned on trying it!
Tinman, tell him to cut two small slits on the choke shaft and put a small c clip on it!!! Ken
Friend, if you were going to be in the states, you need to go to Sawfest
How's the Tinman family
The s bend is to shallow.
Our dollar is .70 cents LOL
Try 25 cents
…..
Good to see you brother, i wish i had you skills and knowledge to build up my McCulloch super 33, i love that saw ✌️❤️🌲🪓 stay elevated