1 billion percent correct. GM isn’t nearly as bad at taking hyped up words to the extreme like Nissan , Renault and now Toyota. I know they exploit everything, I mean the poor guy who coined the word “ solid state battery “ may be dead by now and I truly believe he may have made them in some sort of R&D capacity but the actual solid state battery if Toyota finally figured it out through a process of elimination is about a .00000001 chance of have been developed. Like where did the idea come from? I’m almost 💯 % certain the actual creator saw through the auto industries hype for what it is and rather than just let the Chinese steal his idea said “ mmmmmmFukIt “ they’re all the same, hands in someone else’s pockets taking someone else credit for another thing they can exploit. Take Tesla , Elon is by no means nikola, but projecting a graven image of a man like figure sitting in a chair with electric arch’s flying over his head is one of the intents of these sensationalistic spectacles. I made wireless transmission of energy/electric packs back in the early 2000, trust me, it’s nothing like arch’s of lightning jumping across a room but that’s what sells. Flashing lights and spectacular imagery made possible by bluescreen effects is what people want today. Nobody gets rich off just work , has to have hype like musicians dressed in ridiculous garb make it and even more if they’re obese and can dance. Why would the innovation makers want any of it, just gets stolen.
I had a chance to visit SolidPower in Colorado two years ago and got the impression that they're pretty sober in their projections. No hype, no implausible time lines or efficiency claims. Overall I'm guessing it's more likely that solutions will come from smaller outfits rather than from in-house research by big auto because there are many, and because they don't have to maneuver through a corporate labyrinth.
Big corporations exist to operate the status quo efficiently. They can make more of the same possibly more efficiently (though unlikely) but they can’t change direction. Their huge infrastructure goes directly against any change of direction on anything.
@@Dave5843-d9m Too many executives, too little power, means nothing gets done quickly, efficiently, possibly zero innovation. The opposite corp architecture in a corp will bury them.
To me it's is plainly obvious why Toyota isn't held to account. Toyota advertises heavily, and most "journalists" rely on advertising revenue. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"
Newest LFP+ batteries are getting so good... higher density, longer life, lower cost, faster charge....and these batteries are being made now! No doubt there will be more advances in batteries coming on many fronts, some to suit cars and some to suit stationary uses but for cars being made NOW, LFP+ are the way to go.
Faster charge is just like building a faster race car, they're great, but the don't last very long. I had an uncle who built and raced. My favorite quote from him( when we drove up with the wrecker just after he crashed). " ...ooh, that's gonna leave a mark, get as much of the car as you can on the truck , we'll put it together for next week! "
Yep. That’s why they keep announcing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, hydrogen engines, a hydrogen V8, etc. They have to make it seem like they have something.
Even if you have viable SS battery tech right now. You need to mass produce them which required an actual factory that take multi-years to construct. Until we can see factory being build, tell people you have SS battery mean absolutely nothing.
Developing new Battery chemistry in clearly very hard, with so many unknowns. I don't think anyone can confidently predict either the timescale or the likelihood of being able to bring a scaleable product to market. It looks like Toyota have hit a roadblock that's making it impossible to do this. The Japanese find it very hard to admit it when they've made a mistake, and this looks like a huge one. Part of the problem is that non-solid state batteries have improved so much that many of the advantages of solid state batteries have been met or nearly met. With an ever imroving target, the longer they are unable to make these work, the harder it gets. I can't see them ever bringing them to market.
It's not just that solid state batteries can't be produced economically at scale -- they also can't be produced in a form that can power a car at any price. The state-of-the art are small bench-top pouch samples that stack only a few electrode layers. QuantumScape's also need to be compressed and maintained at a fairly high temperature to operate. QuantumScape is fairly transparent, and has a roadmap stretching out most of a decade before commercialization.
Agreed. Those who knows what and How .. Solid State Batteries ... wroks. Then many will know that "Electrons" need a "Media " to work. It is NOT easy to make such " miracle material " at MASS volume , reasonable cost and durability !
Wow! WOW and Wow. Only you and Alex at E for Electric has semi outed him. It's a bit dissopointing because I was a fan. But I have rewatched his videos and compared his stories against other stories about Toyota's solid state battery. But I get it! As a company Toyota (family) image for some outside of Japan is above reproch. Good Story Sam.
Timed myself, takes me 16sec.s longer to leave in my car after unplugging the charger than to Leave without having it on the charger. A little less to leave my Tesla after plugging it in as opposed to not. Something to think about next time somebody says “if only they charged faster”. Every day I leave with a full battery and I’m good for at least 225 mi.s 300 if I want to push it. Don’t have to find a cheap station don’t have to use credit card, no listening to annoying ads from pump, don’t have to pay five times as much per mile, no oil changes. Got 63000+ miles on it after 2.5 years. Charging time is great as it is right now.
Viking, I think your past videos that hyped just about every new battery startup announcement is part of the problem. I distinctly remember seeing several “This new battery is the future” hype videos you made, which turned me off on watching them. Simply because you were merely echoing the same hype other media made about them. You also had an issue being critical of such announcements as if they were already guaranteed to succeed and replace current technology sooner than later. You reminded me of that E for Electric guy when he hyped other EVs and championed them over Tesla’s EVs before they were even produced. Which made it obvious that he became a sellout. You have since improved your take on emerging battery tech with more critical/cautious opinions, but it’s still quite an issue with EVs you yourself haven’t even tested/reviewed. Hard to take your “this car is really good” opinion seriously when it’s hasn’t even hit the market yet and specially when you haven’t experienced it yourself. Maybe stick with “I’ll believe it when I see it and experience it for myself” kind of opinions would help your credibility. Take that for what it’s worth to you.
Sometimes companies register patents so that they can lock up the production of a product by a competitor and not for their own production. Possibly Toyota is leading the way on stopping the production of solid state batteries by any of its competitors?
Wow...what a twist of logic. Toyota has been involved with solid state research since the 90's and poured millions of dollars in the research. It is to their advantage to use solid state,
So true. Tesla is rightly called out for some of their vaporware. But, Toyota's history of solid state battery vaporware makes Tesla look like amateurs. The only reason Toyota hasn't received the same amount of scrutiny is because few people were really paying much attention to their claims.
Correct Sam, the truth about Toyota is slowly leaking out of the bag…. I think the Americans will be the first with solid state because they need it and that’s where real advances come, Lithium batteries tech has plateaued, semi solid state tech will be the next big jump.
Other than solid state batteries not having an liquid electrolyte, I truly don't know what a solid state battery is. It might be the new "thing", but when I was in elementary school we were supposed to have jet cars by now - like the Jetsons
It has a solid electroyte equivalent as you note. The issue with liquid electroyte is that the electrode material can migrate through the liquid causing degregation over time. Particularly at high charge and discharge rates. Hence solid electroyte solves some high power issues,
@@Tom55data I am optimistic that the future solid state batteries are a practical solution and not something that only NASA or military hardware could use. That;s because I only purchase 2nd hand cars and solid state might be a lifetime battery. Then we can have beater EVs that never die
It's such a shame. Toyota is an amazing company. I remember riding in a Celica in 1983 , it was like a spaceship compared to the minis and Austins we all drove then. I really hope they get their act together.
It’s highly likely that solid state batteries are impossible. Every chemical compound has a different density. So the battery will expand and contract as the chemicals change. No problem when there’s a liquid content. A major problem when they are locked into a solid brick. In addition, who says a solid battery is better than a “normal” battery? It’s not written in stone even if Toyota say it is stone.
Our current understanding of what a solid state battery is would tell us that they should solve most of our issues with current batteries. That’s all of course something that may change, but at least with our current understanding they are the most desirable. Although I don’t believe for a second that Toyota has any chance in bringing them to market period, let alone first
Yeah I've been laughing at them for the last few years especially after they said it's based on having over 1000 patents. That means nothing. There are literally brands that patent everything they can imagine. That doesn't mean they even remotely have a product on the level of their claims.
. . You gotta remember, these are the same nearsighted narcissistic oafs who bombed Pearl Harbor(even the one of them who actually went college here said, ". .don't mess with America, there's a rifle behind every blade of grass!" ). I always wondered why the movie " 1941" wasn't more popular, I love it!
Toyota have just made the same claim yesterday. There was a good review saying the real issue is can the batteries be scaled up and even if Toyota do eventually produce a scaled up version by that time lithium batteries will be so much cheaper. I find it interesting that Toyota are currently pushing the US to defer the car environment rules, to keep ICE cars on the road.
I'm glad somebody with some credibility finally noticed what Toyota's been doing (or rather not doing) and that finally competitors are telling it as it is. Toyota is the modern equivalent of horse cart producers when the ICE came out - big mouth, zero technological prowess.
From what I understand tesla 4860 battery when fully developed will actually be a semi solid state battery when you consider they’re using the dry coating process on the anode and cathode in the near future.?
My opinion of quantumscape.. 1. Down the wrong path, speficically targeting vehicles. In that sense very poor judgement on the part of their executive leadership. Here's why- for vehicles they have to solve multiple problems simultaneously, energy density, power density, longevity, cost and fast charging. Energy density and power density are the easy ones. Fast charging goes hand and hand with longevity. Now if you have those two easy ones are solved, and the cost is high, but under six figures per kwh, Samsung and Apple would be lining up.. because cell phones, laptops, just about any electronics. Also they could care less about longevity..because who has a 6 year old cell phone. If quantumscape did solve all of those.. again, electronics makers first in line because deeper pockets, and you would see super fast chargers, sacrificing longevity for charging speed. Because what cell phone maker wouldn't want batteries to charge in 10 minutes? Then add in the "intrinsically safe" part of solid state batteries.. just the liability insurance for Apple would decrease.. nobody wants a 3rd degree burn on their crotch, and an electronics maker definitely does not want to get sued because the person gets a 3rd degree burn on their crotch. Now in terms of upcoming battery companies. I like BYD and CATL. Cheap long-lasting batteries are king. I like CATL more. I also like Panasonic, but that is because their batteries and products have been good to me. I do not like LG.. it's like every other day they are recalling batteries due to defects, and that is going to weigh them down, and I think the automakers patience is wearing thin.. how many black eyes before the automakers cut ties? (We all know about the Bolt recall, so you would think LG would have made damn sure their next batteries they supplied to GM were defect free, or at least make sure GM does everything right, right? Well, Hummer EV recall about improper sealing for the pack- like really WTF?
Here is a good metric to test future battery claims. Cell phone makers are paying and charging close to $1000 per kwhr for their batteries Car companies have to pay less than $100 per kwhr to be competitive. Cell phone batteries do not have to have as rigorous longevity as EV batteries.. so where do you think huge breakthroughs will appear first?
Worked with Japanese for years. Hard working, smart but can’t handle being outsmarted. Some just don’t know what to do. Good people but sometimes surprisingly prideful to a fault. Seeing that fault now with batteries, hydrogen, extremely too cheap new products etc. they’re squirming. I believe they are saying what they need to do and then desperately work to that goal.
The only reason Toyota is undoubtedly the solid state battery leader in the automotive sector is the simple fact that they’re the only ones currently road testing a car with a solid state battery. That’s a pretty big point to miss in the video. I don’t own a Toyota, in fact I probably never will. They’re boring, soulless cars. That said, it’s undeniable that they’re rock solid. Toyota tests things for years longer than any other automotive manufacturer before they produce it for the mass market. Look at their engines and how long they’ve been manufacturing the same motor for. Their “new” engines are just minor modifications to engines from 10+ years ago.
I can’t claim to be any kind of expert about battery tech. But what I do know is that the global auto industry used to spend many billions $ annually on R&D usually squeezing out tiny enhancements to their ICE vehicles. They aren’t anymore, it’s either swinging toward EV or already has swung. Add to this the fact that the global battery industry is now ramping up to meet the EV led demand. They know the prize is the tsunami of money to be made for those leading in the transport revolution we are now in. They also know the threat for not leading is potential bankruptcy. When so much cash, energy, determination, government support and entrepreneurship is thrown at something, miracles can happen. At the start of WW2 air forces were flying double wing planes, by the end jet fighters roamed the skies. We’re going to see something similar in vehicle transport.
There had been a video showing a corolla typ car turning rounds on a test strip that was supposed to have solid state batteries. But who knows? Maybe they made the Nikola and installed a small Lithium pack from a prius.
You know what happened, same as tryin' to take a 12oz. bag of Hersey Kisses to the beach in July!( " hey, that gives me an idea, I mean look, they already are contained in a conductor! Michael Keaton in "Nightshift" "Note to self, feed mayonnaise to tunafish")
Got news for you things sometimes fail in production engineering. Building a good battery that works fine on a bench is one thing but will it hold up at minus 20 while driving over frozen potholes?
I highly doubt a company of Toyota's credibility is "lying" about solid state batteries. Far more plausible they are just having difficulties trying to move technology from the lab to cost competitive mass production. Companies invent great prototype products all the time that they later have difficulty commercializing due to high manufacturing costs. Just because something exists in lab doesn't mean it necessarily is price competitive once it reaches manufacturing stage. There often needs to be innovation in manufacturing that differs how the prototype was created in a lab. A prime example of this common problem is graphene. In the lab, it's the most revolutionary material of the modern era. Mass producing it cheaply is a whole different can of worms.
Just because I dislike Tesla for valid reasons, doesn't mean I'd ever defend Toyota. Frankly, I'm disappointed in every car company. There's not a single one I can point to and be like, "Yep, they're doing all the right things."
Outside of all of this nonsense, No one is asking in-depth questions about WHY? Why are solid state without cobalt another decade away? They don't have to be better batteries people, just cheaper and lighter.
Toyota isn't the even the only one to lie and hype up solid state batteries. Fisker hyped up that they had made a major breakthrough on solid state batteries, only to quietly abandon all solid state battery research completely just a few months later. They basically said "the first 80% is easy, but the last 20% is really hard and/or maybe even impossible". Bottom line, I've heard so many lies about Solid State Batteries over the years that I automatically assume anyone is lying when they claim to be bringing them to market. I'll believe them when they can bring it to market and not see the batteries fail in real world environments.
In the words of George Costanza, it's not a lie if you believe it. I don't think Toyota is lying about solid state batteries and I don't think Elon was lying about FSD, in both cases I think they massively underestimated the difficulty of the problem. Nobody is close to delivering a solution to either of those problems. Lots of companies have been perpetually two years away from shipping solid state batteries, so far nobody has. The same is true with autonomous driving. Elon has finally stopped saying end of the year and Ford has thrown in the towel altogether. In the next year or two I expect that you'll see some of the solid state battery companies go under. For Toyota they've already said they are rethinking their EV strategy. My guess as to why Toyota has done nothing with EVs yet is that they were so confident that they would have solid state batteries in the near future that they've put EVs on hold until the SS batteries were ready. If they had them and nobody else did they could leapfrog the industry. Unfortunately for them they still can't make them in volume and might not be able to anytime soon. By the time they can build them it might not matter because conventional batteries will be just as good and be cheaper. Toyota may have just realized this which is why they are going back to the drawing board.
I still think there will be 3 new types of batteries per year for the next decade. It's going to be amazing. Materials are another wildcard, just think if someone makes a room temp superconducting material. Can you image how much more efficient and powerful electric motors would be wound with superconducting windings? The other big orange cables in the car could also be much smaller and lighter and charging stations might have tiny cables that don't even need liquid cooling.
VW group should have gone under in 2015 with the Dieselgate scandal, I can't believe people still buy their crap cars, I guess birds of a feather flock together.
I have a simple standard. Can I buy a Lead-Acid battery - YES. Can I buy an Alkaline Battery - YES. Can I buy a Lithium-Ion Battery - YES. Can I buy a Solid State Battery - NO!
& do I hate them all because they let you down just when you need them most. Give me 200 gallons of diesel & I'll hay this 1000 acre field. Now that's a battery!
Sulfer based illumination was all the rage awhile ago, beautiful like the sun , very bright and efficient!. . . . . . . then nothing, it got the "10 years from now" kick in the can , I guess.
semi-solid battery has been put into car and doing test driving for 2 years now in China. 2023, you will see many model will adopt it. in the hand, solid battery can't be fast charged, this is why they can only be used in hybrid cars. yes, this is the irony.
viking i have written about this several times. It is possible to make a wonder battery that is 1cm by 1 cm but very difficult to produce x 1 gigawatt. ... but you will get clicks ... not truly honestly. Then when it is nonsense you get more clicks. some batteries like silver are too expensive. Other minerals are too rare. others like silicon are too difficult or are not long lasting. some inventors will take 10 seconds to research a battery then claim their battery cost 10c per megawatt and it lasts a million years. elon said it simply. Any inventor will first go to tesla to sell their patent, and tesla has listened to hundreds of these would be miracle inventors. You have been caught several times. it gets clicks and then the rebuttal gets more clicks but .... viking.... i love you ..... its not honest
Supercaps (solid state batteries) are real and have been in industrial use for years so it's not really a new or special technology. The work has been on making them suitable for automotive use and there are several companies working on it.
NIO’s semi-solid-state battery supplier, Beijing WeLion New Energy Technology, recently closed a RMB 1.5 billion ($208 million) new funding deal. The only thing Toyota is ahead of is: on its path to bankruptcy.
While I’m not up to date on the claims NASA has made, the price NASA is willing to pay for cutting edge space tech is a little higher than what consumers are willing to pay for a car. It’s possible to make a working solid state battery, just not at any realistically useable cost for consumers, and also not at a manufacturable scale
Who owned the solid-state's battery? Do you know if there is anything else you can get it done so I am going to have a good idea for sure that I can buy?
Elon has said repeatedly that Tesla is always looking for the next battery breakthrough and is currently using best chemistry available for volume production. Tesla has the next battery breakthrough it's called the 4680! Science projects do not help Tesla. It's all about smaller, faster, lighter, denser, cheaper! There's a great book on the subject.
Toyota's history always depends on buying US tech to utilize in its industry. What made it outstanding are just reliable product they've made , not advance tech cars. So if US don't have solid state batt , Its Toyota either.
The Toyota's Solid Lies.
LoLz
I believe NOTHING Toyota says these days. I will never buy another after their 'Self Charging' marketing lies and trying to treat buyers like idiots!
I think the reason Toyota has so many solid state battery patents is they are trying to create roadblocks for other companies working on SS batteries.
I'm glad "they" are getting around that hurdle by making other kinds of batteries.
Those patents will expire before it matters.
@@Mrbfgray haha
Toyota is trying to pump their stock price so the toyoda family can dump their shares onto unsuspecting chumps.
1 billion percent correct. GM isn’t nearly as bad at taking hyped up words to the extreme like Nissan , Renault and now Toyota. I know they exploit everything, I mean the poor guy who coined the word “ solid state battery “ may be dead by now and I truly believe he may have made them in some sort of R&D capacity but the actual solid state battery if Toyota finally figured it out through a process of elimination is about a .00000001 chance of have been developed. Like where did the idea come from? I’m almost 💯 % certain the actual creator saw through the auto industries hype for what it is and rather than just let the Chinese steal his idea said “ mmmmmmFukIt “ they’re all the same, hands in someone else’s pockets taking someone else credit for another thing they can exploit.
Take Tesla , Elon is by no means nikola, but projecting a graven image of a man like figure sitting in a chair with electric arch’s flying over his head is one of the intents of these sensationalistic spectacles. I made wireless transmission of energy/electric packs back in the early 2000, trust me, it’s nothing like arch’s of lightning jumping across a room but that’s what sells. Flashing lights and spectacular imagery made possible by bluescreen effects is what people want today. Nobody gets rich off just work , has to have hype like musicians dressed in ridiculous garb make it and even more if they’re obese and can dance. Why would the innovation makers want any of it, just gets stolen.
I had a chance to visit SolidPower in Colorado two years ago and got the impression that they're pretty sober in their projections. No hype, no implausible time lines or efficiency claims. Overall I'm guessing it's more likely that solutions will come from smaller outfits rather than from in-house research by big auto because there are many, and because they don't have to maneuver through a corporate labyrinth.
In-house = worker-unions = {mafia=fascist + retards=failure}.
Big corporations exist to operate the status quo efficiently. They can make more of the same possibly more efficiently (though unlikely) but they can’t change direction. Their huge infrastructure goes directly against any change of direction on anything.
@@Dave5843-d9m Too many executives, too little power, means nothing gets done quickly, efficiently, possibly zero innovation. The opposite corp architecture in a corp will bury them.
To me it's is plainly obvious why Toyota isn't held to account.
Toyota advertises heavily, and most "journalists" rely on advertising revenue.
"Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"
Exactly!
Newest LFP+ batteries are getting so good... higher density, longer life, lower cost, faster charge....and these batteries are being made now!
No doubt there will be more advances in batteries coming on many fronts, some to suit cars and some to suit stationary uses but for cars being made NOW, LFP+ are the way to go.
Faster charge is just like building a faster race car, they're great, but the don't last very long.
I had an uncle who built and raced.
My favorite quote from him( when we drove up with the wrecker just after he crashed).
" ...ooh, that's gonna leave a mark, get as much of the car as you can on the truck , we'll put it together for next week! "
Thanks Sam for cutting through all the fake stuff in many places, including some media and ect
Welcome!
Ya, that "Future Unity" TH-cam channel is one hella' nexus of bizarre garbage clickbait in general...
haha this video is fake stuff
I'm also disappointed with Toyota, but I hope they don't patent the solid state battery technology so that others can't make them
Zero chance of that happening. Tesla is the only auto manufacturer opening up their patents for use with some restrictions.
@@TecnamTwin what patents has Tesla 'opened up'?
Those patents will expire before it matters.
@@TecnamTwin NO Tesla does not open their patents. Not sure where you read that info.
Thanks for calling out the bs.
Why is the media blind?
Ah, advertising - of course!
hmm... fake it until you make it... all about keeping those interested in their stocks? 💡
Yep. That’s why they keep announcing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, hydrogen engines, a hydrogen V8, etc. They have to make it seem like they have something.
Aptera.
If toyota is leading in the EV battery then they wont need to use BYD blade battery.
Love the double standard. Unlimited excuses for Tesla.
"Solid State Batteries" is just Toyota's version of the "clean diesel" fabrication.
What planet are you from x Miller ? th-cam.com/video/LmbbBfXWMhE/w-d-xo.html
Why so many Toyota vids from this channel last 2 months ??? Obsessed with Toyota for some reason.
Be very careful about using Toyota's B rolls as I think they will pull a Nikola and copyright strike you.
Even if you have viable SS battery tech right now. You need to mass produce them which required an actual factory that take multi-years to construct. Until we can see factory being build, tell people you have SS battery mean absolutely nothing.
do not worry about that...SS research started in the late 90's at Toyota. th-cam.com/video/LmbbBfXWMhE/w-d-xo.html
I have been waiting 2 years to see Toyota's super battery technology in vehicles
keep on waiting, mate.🤣
Toyota bever been leading anything Think again
"Toyota Bever" , from the agriculture division, it makes a maintains the berms of rice paddies( I patented it).
2025 - or - did they mean 2502 ?
Toyota hybrid has has just been voted most reliable vehicles by CR. Tesla are 19th out of 24
This guy is obviously a Toyota-hater. Who is paying him?
It's like tesla saying they will be a tesla for 20000 USD for 2 to 4 year ago...
Developing new Battery chemistry in clearly very hard, with so many unknowns. I don't think anyone can confidently predict either the timescale or the likelihood of being able to bring a scaleable product to market. It looks like Toyota have hit a roadblock that's making it impossible to do this. The Japanese find it very hard to admit it when they've made a mistake, and this looks like a huge one. Part of the problem is that non-solid state batteries have improved so much that many of the advantages of solid state batteries have been met or nearly met. With an ever imroving target, the longer they are unable to make these work, the harder it gets. I can't see them ever bringing them to market.
It's not just that solid state batteries can't be produced economically at scale -- they also can't be produced in a form that can power a car at any price. The state-of-the art are small bench-top pouch samples that stack only a few electrode layers. QuantumScape's also need to be compressed and maintained at a fairly high temperature to operate. QuantumScape is fairly transparent, and has a roadmap stretching out most of a decade before commercialization.
Agreed. Those who knows what and How .. Solid State Batteries ... wroks. Then many will know that "Electrons" need a "Media " to work. It is NOT easy to make such " miracle material " at MASS volume , reasonable cost and durability !
Japanese used to be honorable and somewhat accountable but they now seemed to learn too much from their master
Toyota said solid state battery come in 2027!!!🎉
Sam, you have covered Magnis Energy/C4V twice, as well as Graphene Manufacturing Group...twice. Those are your best calls, in my opinion.
"Prototypes are easy, production is hard.", Elon Musk. You would presume someone at Toyota understands english
They are just now figuring out how to keep the wheels from falling off. What???
Saw a Ford Mach-E advertisement lying to me! They claim to have the largest supercharging network! LMAO!
Wow! WOW and Wow. Only you and Alex at E for Electric has semi outed him. It's a bit dissopointing because I was a fan. But I have rewatched his videos and compared his stories against other stories about Toyota's solid state battery. But I get it! As a company Toyota (family) image for some outside of Japan is above reproch. Good Story Sam.
Timed myself, takes me 16sec.s longer to leave in my car after unplugging the charger than to Leave without having it on the charger. A little less to leave my Tesla after plugging it in as opposed to not. Something to think about next time somebody says “if only they charged faster”. Every day I leave with a full battery and I’m good for at least 225 mi.s 300 if I want to push it. Don’t have to find a cheap station don’t have to use credit card, no listening to annoying ads from pump, don’t have to pay five times as much per mile, no oil changes. Got 63000+ miles on it after 2.5 years. Charging time is great as it is right now.
So what. The most important thing is that solid state batteries are possible.
Viking, I think your past videos that hyped just about every new battery startup announcement is part of the problem. I distinctly remember seeing several “This new battery is the future” hype videos you made, which turned me off on watching them. Simply because you were merely echoing the same hype other media made about them. You also had an issue being critical of such announcements as if they were already guaranteed to succeed and replace current technology sooner than later. You reminded me of that E for Electric guy when he hyped other EVs and championed them over Tesla’s EVs before they were even produced. Which made it obvious that he became a sellout. You have since improved your take on emerging battery tech with more critical/cautious opinions, but it’s still quite an issue with EVs you yourself haven’t even tested/reviewed. Hard to take your “this car is really good” opinion seriously when it’s hasn’t even hit the market yet and specially when you haven’t experienced it yourself. Maybe stick with “I’ll believe it when I see it and experience it for myself” kind of opinions would help your credibility. Take that for what it’s worth to you.
Sometimes companies register patents so that they can lock up the production of a product by a competitor and not for their own production. Possibly Toyota is leading the way on stopping the production of solid state batteries by any of its competitors?
Wow...what a twist of logic. Toyota has been involved with solid state research since the 90's and poured millions of dollars in the research. It is to their advantage to use solid state,
You could make the point in one half of the time. Now, that's production efficiency.
I'd like to hear more about Nio and their battery swapping cars.
So true. Tesla is rightly called out for some of their vaporware. But, Toyota's history of solid state battery vaporware makes Tesla look like amateurs. The only reason Toyota hasn't received the same amount of scrutiny is because few people were really paying much attention to their claims.
Has Akio Toyoda become the Mary Barra of the East?
Correct Sam, the truth about Toyota is slowly leaking out of the bag….
I think the Americans will be the first with solid state because they need it and that’s where real advances come, Lithium batteries tech has plateaued, semi solid state tech will be the next big jump.
Other than solid state batteries not having an liquid electrolyte, I truly don't know what a solid state battery is. It might be the new "thing", but when I was in elementary school we were supposed to have jet cars by now - like the Jetsons
It has a solid electroyte equivalent as you note. The issue with liquid electroyte is that the electrode material can migrate through the liquid causing degregation over time. Particularly at high charge and discharge rates. Hence solid electroyte solves some high power issues,
Flying cars are stupid idea most people have trouble with 2 dimentions.
Funny how it's been the "10 years from now" poster boy for about a century now.
@@Tom55data I am optimistic that the future solid state batteries are a practical solution and not something that only NASA or military hardware could use. That;s because I only purchase 2nd hand cars and solid state might be a lifetime battery. Then we can have beater EVs that never die
I have a solid state dump every time I eat Sushi. It's painful.
It's such a shame. Toyota is an amazing company. I remember riding in a Celica in 1983 , it was like a spaceship compared to the minis and Austins we all drove then. I really hope they get their act together.
I guess it was a good thing that I didn't cancel my Cybertruck reservation.
Toyota look like they are crapping themselves. The share price is one game. Keeping customers from buying a Tesla is their main game.
It’s highly likely that solid state batteries are impossible. Every chemical compound has a different density. So the battery will expand and contract as the chemicals change. No problem when there’s a liquid content. A major problem when they are locked into a solid brick.
In addition, who says a solid battery is better than a “normal” battery? It’s not written in stone even if Toyota say it is stone.
Our current understanding of what a solid state battery is would tell us that they should solve most of our issues with current batteries. That’s all of course something that may change, but at least with our current understanding they are the most desirable. Although I don’t believe for a second that Toyota has any chance in bringing them to market period, let alone first
Sam, you are incredibly credible 👌 I love the way you do research and how you present the facts. Keep going Sam...
Thank you! Will do!
Yeah I've been laughing at them for the last few years especially after they said it's based on having over 1000 patents. That means nothing. There are literally brands that patent everything they can imagine. That doesn't mean they even remotely have a product on the level of their claims.
. . You gotta remember, these are the same nearsighted narcissistic oafs who bombed Pearl Harbor(even the one of them who actually went college here said, ". .don't mess with America, there's a rifle behind every blade of grass!" ).
I always wondered why the movie " 1941" wasn't more popular, I love it!
Toyota have just made the same claim yesterday. There was a good review saying the real issue is can the batteries be scaled up and even if Toyota do eventually produce a scaled up version by that time lithium batteries will be so much cheaper. I find it interesting that Toyota are currently pushing the US to defer the car environment rules, to keep ICE cars on the road.
I'm glad somebody with some credibility finally noticed what Toyota's been doing (or rather not doing) and that finally competitors are telling it as it is. Toyota is the modern equivalent of horse cart producers when the ICE came out - big mouth, zero technological prowess.
From what I understand tesla 4860 battery when fully developed will actually be a semi solid state battery when you consider they’re using the dry coating process on the anode and cathode in the near future.?
With the rubbish you spout about Toyota, calling another website out for wrong information is the perfect example of "pot calling kettle black"!! 🤣
Your opinion on quantumscape? And any interesting battery stocks?
My opinion of quantumscape..
1. Down the wrong path, speficically targeting vehicles. In that sense very poor judgement on the part of their executive leadership.
Here's why- for vehicles they have to solve multiple problems simultaneously, energy density, power density, longevity, cost and fast charging.
Energy density and power density are the easy ones.
Fast charging goes hand and hand with longevity.
Now if you have those two easy ones are solved, and the cost is high, but under six figures per kwh, Samsung and Apple would be lining up.. because cell phones, laptops, just about any electronics. Also they could care less about longevity..because who has a 6 year old cell phone.
If quantumscape did solve all of those.. again, electronics makers first in line because deeper pockets, and you would see super fast chargers, sacrificing longevity for charging speed. Because what cell phone maker wouldn't want batteries to charge in 10 minutes?
Then add in the "intrinsically safe" part of solid state batteries.. just the liability insurance for Apple would decrease.. nobody wants a 3rd degree burn on their crotch, and an electronics maker definitely does not want to get sued because the person gets a 3rd degree burn on their crotch.
Now in terms of upcoming battery companies. I like BYD and CATL. Cheap long-lasting batteries are king. I like CATL more. I also like Panasonic, but that is because their batteries and products have been good to me.
I do not like LG.. it's like every other day they are recalling batteries due to defects, and that is going to weigh them down, and I think the automakers patience is wearing thin.. how many black eyes before the automakers cut ties? (We all know about the Bolt recall, so you would think LG would have made damn sure their next batteries they supplied to GM were defect free, or at least make sure GM does everything right, right? Well, Hummer EV recall about improper sealing for the pack- like really WTF?
Here is a good metric to test future battery claims.
Cell phone makers are paying and charging close to $1000 per kwhr for their batteries
Car companies have to pay less than $100 per kwhr to be competitive.
Cell phone batteries do not have to have as rigorous longevity as EV batteries.. so where do you think huge breakthroughs will appear first?
Worked with Japanese for years. Hard working, smart but can’t handle being outsmarted. Some just don’t know what to do. Good people but sometimes surprisingly prideful to a fault. Seeing that fault now with batteries, hydrogen, extremely too cheap new products etc. they’re squirming. I believe they are saying what they need to do and then desperately work to that goal.
Should have mentioned, don’t count them out they may yet pull it off!
The only reason Toyota is undoubtedly the solid state battery leader in the automotive sector is the simple fact that they’re the only ones currently road testing a car with a solid state battery. That’s a pretty big point to miss in the video.
I don’t own a Toyota, in fact I probably never will. They’re boring, soulless cars. That said, it’s undeniable that they’re rock solid. Toyota tests things for years longer than any other automotive manufacturer before they produce it for the mass market. Look at their engines and how long they’ve been manufacturing the same motor for. Their “new” engines are just minor modifications to engines from 10+ years ago.
Where is the car they’re road testing? Idiot.
But Sam have you not heard Toyota 's advertised claim that all there new cars are self charging. I think that's amazing 👏.
Toyota is in Trouble a Company with the Wheels Falling Off
I can’t claim to be any kind of expert about battery tech. But what I do know is that the global auto industry used to spend many billions $ annually on R&D usually squeezing out tiny enhancements to their ICE vehicles. They aren’t anymore, it’s either swinging toward EV or already has swung. Add to this the fact that the global battery industry is now ramping up to meet the EV led demand. They know the prize is the tsunami of money to be made for those leading in the transport revolution we are now in. They also know the threat for not leading is potential bankruptcy. When so much cash, energy, determination, government support and entrepreneurship is thrown at something, miracles can happen.
At the start of WW2 air forces were flying double wing planes, by the end jet fighters roamed the skies. We’re going to see something similar in vehicle transport.
Has anyone done a deep dive into what the patents cover?
It’s about time for Toyota to prove the doubters wrong.
There had been a video showing a corolla typ car turning rounds on a test strip that was supposed to have solid state batteries. But who knows? Maybe they made the Nikola and installed a small Lithium pack from a prius.
You know what happened, same as tryin' to take a 12oz. bag of Hersey Kisses to the beach in July!( " hey, that gives me an idea, I mean look, they already are contained in a conductor!
Michael Keaton in "Nightshift"
"Note to self, feed mayonnaise to tunafish")
beyond zero (negative value, minus) reliability
Got news for you things sometimes fail in production engineering. Building a good battery that works fine on a bench is one thing but will it hold up at minus 20 while driving over frozen potholes?
Kinda like Elon lying about totally driverless cars, Tesla cabs, shall I go on? Elon the biggest bs artist known to man!😂
I highly doubt a company of Toyota's credibility is "lying" about solid state batteries. Far more plausible they are just having difficulties trying to move technology from the lab to cost competitive mass production. Companies invent great prototype products all the time that they later have difficulty commercializing due to high manufacturing costs. Just because something exists in lab doesn't mean it necessarily is price competitive once it reaches manufacturing stage. There often needs to be innovation in manufacturing that differs how the prototype was created in a lab. A prime example of this common problem is graphene. In the lab, it's the most revolutionary material of the modern era. Mass producing it cheaply is a whole different can of worms.
Sounds like Toyota is gearing up to become a patent troll instead of an automaker.
I give them zero percent chance at success. Correction, make that Beyond Zero.....
Just because I dislike Tesla for valid reasons, doesn't mean I'd ever defend Toyota. Frankly, I'm disappointed in every car company. There's not a single one I can point to and be like, "Yep, they're doing all the right things."
I always thought Toyota were a good brand but they're destroying their own name
Wil financing for EV's change to longer terms say 10 year financing ?
Outside of all of this nonsense, No one is asking in-depth questions about WHY? Why are solid state without cobalt another decade away? They don't have to be better batteries people, just cheaper and lighter.
The 4680 makes solid state battery unnecessary
Toyota isn't the even the only one to lie and hype up solid state batteries. Fisker hyped up that they had made a major breakthrough on solid state batteries, only to quietly abandon all solid state battery research completely just a few months later. They basically said "the first 80% is easy, but the last 20% is really hard and/or maybe even impossible". Bottom line, I've heard so many lies about Solid State Batteries over the years that I automatically assume anyone is lying when they claim to be bringing them to market. I'll believe them when they can bring it to market and not see the batteries fail in real world environments.
In the words of George Costanza, it's not a lie if you believe it. I don't think Toyota is lying about solid state batteries and I don't think Elon was lying about FSD, in both cases I think they massively underestimated the difficulty of the problem. Nobody is close to delivering a solution to either of those problems. Lots of companies have been perpetually two years away from shipping solid state batteries, so far nobody has. The same is true with autonomous driving. Elon has finally stopped saying end of the year and Ford has thrown in the towel altogether. In the next year or two I expect that you'll see some of the solid state battery companies go under.
For Toyota they've already said they are rethinking their EV strategy. My guess as to why Toyota has done nothing with EVs yet is that they were so confident that they would have solid state batteries in the near future that they've put EVs on hold until the SS batteries were ready. If they had them and nobody else did they could leapfrog the industry. Unfortunately for them they still can't make them in volume and might not be able to anytime soon. By the time they can build them it might not matter because conventional batteries will be just as good and be cheaper. Toyota may have just realized this which is why they are going back to the drawing board.
I still think there will be 3 new types of batteries per year for the next decade. It's going to be amazing. Materials are another wildcard, just think if someone makes a room temp superconducting material. Can you image how much more efficient and powerful electric motors would be wound with superconducting windings? The other big orange cables in the car could also be much smaller and lighter and charging stations might have tiny cables that don't even need liquid cooling.
Disappointing from Toyota...
VW group should have gone under in 2015 with the Dieselgate scandal, I can't believe people still buy their crap cars, I guess birds of a feather flock together.
Solid state electrolyte has its advantages but also drawbacks. Complete solid state battery is unlikely to be be-all and end-all technology.
I have a simple standard.
Can I buy a Lead-Acid battery - YES.
Can I buy an Alkaline Battery - YES.
Can I buy a Lithium-Ion Battery - YES.
Can I buy a Solid State Battery - NO!
& do I hate them all because they let you down just when you need them most.
Give me 200 gallons of diesel & I'll hay this 1000 acre field.
Now that's a battery!
@@aaronsmith5433 Unless it is a John-Deere tractor, and then they own your soul.
sulfur based batteries may be useful for static use (as in UPS / utility)
Sulfer based illumination was all the rage awhile ago, beautiful like the sun , very bright and efficient!. . . . . . . then nothing, it got the "10 years from now" kick in the can , I guess.
Every other car brands have issues and problems except for Tesla. What a loyal Tesla fanboy. Good boy. Good boy 😂🤣😂🤣
semi-solid battery has been put into car and doing test driving for 2 years now in China.
2023, you will see many model will adopt it.
in the hand, solid battery can't be fast charged, this is why they can only be used in hybrid cars.
yes, this is the irony.
“Patents are for the weak” - Elon Musk.
viking i have written about this several times. It is possible to make a wonder battery that is 1cm by 1 cm but very difficult to produce x 1 gigawatt.
... but you will get clicks ... not truly honestly. Then when it is nonsense you get more clicks.
some batteries like silver are too expensive.
Other minerals are too rare.
others like silicon are too difficult or are not long lasting.
some inventors will take 10 seconds to research a battery then claim their battery cost 10c per megawatt and it lasts a million years.
elon said it simply. Any inventor will first go to tesla to sell their patent, and tesla has listened to hundreds of these would be miracle inventors. You have been caught several times. it gets clicks and then the rebuttal gets more clicks but .... viking.... i love you ..... its not honest
Supercaps (solid state batteries) are real and have been in industrial use for years so it's not really a new or special technology. The work has been on making them suitable for automotive use and there are several companies working on it.
The lies were so obvious. Solid state batteries, yeah right, in a lab maybe, yes.
NIO’s semi-solid-state battery supplier, Beijing WeLion New Energy Technology, recently closed a RMB 1.5 billion ($208 million) new funding deal. The only thing Toyota is ahead of is: on its path to bankruptcy.
I’m done with all Japanese vehicles
What about NASAs recent claims?
While I’m not up to date on the claims NASA has made, the price NASA is willing to pay for cutting edge space tech is a little higher than what consumers are willing to pay for a car. It’s possible to make a working solid state battery, just not at any realistically useable cost for consumers, and also not at a manufacturable scale
@@SyntheticSpy If they can make successfully working model of SSB i think they can work upon cost reduction with next mission.
Toyota executives have been sniffing their own farts for too long.
Toyota Solid Bogus.
Who owned the solid-state's battery? Do you know if there is anything else you can get it done so I am going to have a good idea for sure that I can buy?
It's Ok Toyota I'm never going to buy anything you offer. 🤷♂️
Elon has said repeatedly that Tesla is always looking for the next battery breakthrough and is currently using best chemistry available for volume production. Tesla has the next battery breakthrough it's called the 4680! Science projects do not help Tesla. It's all about smaller, faster, lighter, denser, cheaper! There's a great book on the subject.
Is it Toyota or The Electric Viking that has zero credibility? We'll find out soon.
Damn bruh you have some deep feelings for Toyota :D
It's the Theranos Elizabeth Holmes story in EV.
It’s American’s turn now
Sam, I think you may have uncovered Toyota's plan to survive, they are becoming the world leader in the field of "Solid State Battery Patent Trolls" 🤣
Toyota's history always depends on buying US tech to utilize in its industry. What made it outstanding are just reliable product they've made , not advance tech cars.
So if US don't have solid state batt , Its Toyota either.