🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:19 🎙️ Solid-state batteries promise higher energy density but face challenges in mass production due to material processing and cost factors. 03:06 ⚖️ Solid-state batteries offer the potential for double the energy density of lithium-ion batteries, making them a viable option for electric vehicles and other applications. 04:08 🚗 Leading companies like CATL, QuantumScape, ProLogium, and Solid Power are investing in solid-state battery research and development for future applications in various industries. 10:54 🔄 Solid-state batteries require careful optimization of interface and interfacial resistance between different materials to enhance performance and stability. 17:19 🔋 Solid-state batteries can potentially revolutionize electric vehicles, providing higher energy density, longer ranges, and reduced carbon footprint. 24:37 🔥 Solid-state batteries are considered safer than traditional lithium-ion batteries due to reduced flammability and improved material safety. 26:00 🌐 Sodium batteries show promise in terms of sustainability due to greater availability of sodium compared to lithium, but technical challenges remain to achieve equivalent energy density. 27:23 ♻️ Solid-state batteries present recycling challenges due to fused interfaces and high-temperature assembly, requiring advancements in low-temperature disassembly and refining techniques. Made with HARPA AI
One thing is for sure, the race is on. There is development going on 24 hours a day all over the world both public and in secret. The next few years will be amazing. Not all of the new batteries will be useful in cars but that is not the only market. Grid storage, home storage, and many other uses will take advantage of almost all of them. The important thing is to have many different designs using different minerals so the price and availability of any one mineral or material doesn't become a limiting factor.
Good comments. Yes it’s not just about cars. For example petrol powered machines like lawnmowers, grass trimmers, leaf blowers are all now available using battery power. I changed all three and now recharge them from my solar system. A small but useful contribution when the global market is considered. There are so many applications for battery storage already in use. Many are not critically limited by weight, public lighting is a good example of a stationary application. Having a range of different battery chemistries in use sounds like the right way to go.
If we could create lithium air batteries we would be set. There was a breakthrough in 2023 making one solid state battery at room tempature, but a ton of work is needed to make them usable. We have batteries already that are very very good compared to something like Tesla. Tons of new technologies out in the lab, but actually scaling them or things like longetitivty is the problem. I think some tech will go from certain sectors like aerospace, medical, or any industry where they will upfront the cost. Then trickle down.
The next battery breakthrough has been 5 years away for the last 100 years... The problem is when a laboratory battery meets the real world, we already see Tesla refusing warranty because the 'battery was abused' - by fast charging too often, letting battery run too low etc etc....
Solid state as said in the video have issues with connectivity due to difficulties with connection surfaces between solids. A simular approach of using lithium metal but still having a liquid electrolyte that is non flamable is the likely winner.
I think a lot of it comes down to business models. Battery companies spent a ton of money on research and development on the current battery structure, and they need to get that back.
@@Anomize23 As in BP spending $100 million to buy super chargers. Sure they can read the writing on the wall. They still want to milk oil while they can.
I agree, TV sales in the uk and for that matter virtually all technologies are available historically in Japan firstly, although this has shifted now to China and Taiwan etc to some extent. Mainstream shops where selling flat screen TVs for ages which were still analogue and didn’t have a digital receiver, likewise led TVs arrived in UK maybe 10 years after coming to market in Japan. This latency allows the manufacturer’s to maximise the profit on older technologies, a proportion of the profit being reinvested into new technology development. We are in a permanent state of delay in the UK, 5-10 years behind
My first view of your youtubes Patrick, great discussion with Professor Jennifer. Good information. Yes I am convinced that solid state batteries are the next milestone, although, as pointed out the chemistry involved needs continued research. I commend you and Professor Rupp for bringing this information to a broader audience
meanwhile yoshimo is already marketing one. the weight advantage is clear. the output is higher but it doesn't seem to have a charging advantage. the power tool market could heat up again with these.
Lithium as a resource is quite abundant throughout the earth's crust. The problem I believe has to do with existing suppliers ability to meet marked demands based on inadequate production methods as well as certain countries and battery companies buying up existing mining capacity around the world.
There is one more point though and that is environmental considerations no one wants a mining operation as there closest neighbor and the impact to plants, animals, water and air.
Fairly optimistic video I think.. huge research is ongoing, and batteries will get better and better.. we are gradually piecing together a low carbon future...
Very good interview Patrick to the Mit professor Jennifer Rupp, thank you for sharing it. I wish you could to also interview to Dr. Billy Wu, associate professor (reader) in the Dyson School of desigh enginnering at Imperial College London, Reaserching batteries, fuel cells and 3D printing, teaching materials, manufacturing and energy related topics, to get his point of view on the matter. I will be waiting for the video of the interview, thanks a lot. Also Greetings from Peru and many successes.
Wh/kg is technically not an energy density measure used in the battery industry, but the "specific energy". Rather, the volumetric energy density is measured in Wh/L. The energy density of the latest batteries is now reaching 1000Wh/L for Amprius products and they also claim specific energy of around 500Wh/kg. Both of these measures are important for mobile applications where weight and space are always in design considerations.
Hi, thanks a lot for this brilliant video and reportage. It's not the problem of chemistry itself- the density mesured in KW/h per mass storage are more significant to develop batteries with high energy densities (+/- 500 - 800 W/kg) and of course interresting recharging capabilities. It's true, we must find the "Holy Grail" to keep out most incovenients and benefits from diverse battery-chemistries like sodium with better cathodes and anodes to charge them faster, if it could be possible to charge a Electric-cars with the speed and power like gasoline powered cars, then we have more people to buy this motorisation in future... I drive electric today, and I'm happy with my car for short distances a electric car is a must-have... For myself it's the future of transportation - just like to charge a little bit faster... 🙂
SS Bats will eventually overtake liquid, simply because they have a higher energy density per cost ceiling. Liquid will continue to be more cost-efficient for a while, because we've poured decades into refining the design and manufacture of that tech. SS will take some time to catch up, but will inevitably do so, because liquid will hit a maximum that is much lower than that of SS bats. Hard to say when that will happen but probably within the decade.
The real question is the resource of the raw materials in the manufacture of lithium ion batteries , the cost and the safety of lithium ion batteries when it comes to a global market ! The raw materials used in the manufacture of sodium batteries are possibly less expensive, and I am sure with the development of sodium batteries equal to that of lithium ion, in the future , sodium batteries will be the ultimate global winner, for many practical and functional reasons!
I have a question maybe you could answer during discharge positive Lithium Ions flow from the anode to the cathode how do they over come the 3.7v voltage potential of the cathode?
Further down the line once capacity is sufficient, which it arguably already is , people will look for the battery technology that gives the most lifetime in combination with the intial purchase cost. The cost effect of life expired batteries in the future is an unpredictable thing so to me it's worth a premium to have the security of a higher warranted/expected lifetime at point of inital purchase
How do the batteries get charged? I have many lipo batteries. I charge them with electricity from my home that comes from different energy sources. Thank you very excited about the future.
I came back to watch this video again but noticed the negative comment about quantum scape was removed from the older version of this video. I wonder why?
The solid state batteries are likely usable in airplanes of the future. Especially smaller airplanes flying up to 1000 km Also in drones (especially race drones)
I think the biggest part of the problem is manufacturing you hear about tons and tons of new technology breakthroughs on much better batteries it’s one thing to create a new battery in a lab but it’s another thing to be able to mass produce it and actually get it into the market I think that’s part of the problem as I said many companies have made a much better battery, but can they get it into mass production properly? That’s a part of the problem
Many thanks for this video and competent introduction into this technology. Never got described such particular. I agree to the voices in comments the sodium technology will at least win the race of the chemistries for mass production. SIB will instantly benefit from this researches and appliances, because Li+ and Na+ is same kind of nature. What I miss, and I afraid its related by companies IP, that no closer details are granted how to manufacture and improve production chain for more sustainability and in future aspects of environmental production and recycling. And here especially the german inventions in possible 3D-Printing of anodes/cathodes as well the seperator materials to enable EU-Industrie to gain and conserve german inventions for own battery mass production. Instead of this e.g. we had get notice the inovative silicone anode production goes to Australia, and is not keeping hold within EU. Its seems to be german technology leadership let once more far-east economies grow, instead better let benefit germany/EU economy for a while. Might an argument not to spend more money for EU-High-Tec-Education, when not pay off. But as we know, its declared cruitial.
This discussion is not for the uneducated. I need a car guy level discussion. I feel we will move towards EV but, the government needs to step up and help the movement get organized. Right now we still can’t get rid of mirrors in vehicles. We have a dysfunctional government and culture. JMO❤️✌️👍
Vielen Dank für diesen interessanten Beitrag. Ein gutes Format um die Menschen bei den Entwicklungen mitzunehmen.😊 Als Keramiker interessiert mich vor allem diese Seite. Welche Keramik kommt zum Einsatz,wie hoch sind die Brenntemperaturen, wie wird die Homogenität der verwendeten Rohstoffe gewährleistet, welcher Formgebungsprozeß ist vorgesehen, wo verlaufen die Schnittstellen zwischen Industrie und Forschung? Manchmal ist der Blick von außen auch hilfreich. Viele Dinge müssen auch nicht immer neu erfunden werden. 🤔
this was very informative, one of the things I'm most curious about is why are solid state batteries as tough as they are to develop, what are the major issues? Surely it can't be just dendrites.
"Another energy storage and conversion scheme" ....yes, something beyond these 250 W/kg playthings is needed. e=mc2 suggests we have yet to scratch the surface of the possible.
Hi, She said 22:28, 10,000 cycle so 10,000cycles (if 1 cycle means the battery getting charged fully once)*1000kms/cycle = Meaning car can run for 10,000,000 Kms on Solid State Battery??
10k cycles possible on many chemistries. Just depends on the chosen maximum voltage and time at that voltage plus temperature control. th-cam.com/video/rOAYjcO6kao/w-d-xo.html
Quantumscape is a SPAC scam they have never showed any proof. And even Volkswagen said that they never received any proof or any kind of demo cells. And they rather keep silent about it because they don't want to speculate or have the stock implode more than it does. Even now Volkswagen has profit on the investments. But Volkswagen doesn't actively involve with Quantumscape. They are busy with Northvolt and Gotion. THeir current factories are build with them. Gotion for LFP factories for their Volkswagen ID2 in 2025. And Northvolt they are close working with regarding their Natrium-Ion batteries. Volkswagen isn't interacting with Quantumscape at all. It's just investments to reduce risks, Quantumscape was purely a hedge. Nothing else. Volkswagen does not invest any pennyt more in Quantumscape nor do they have any projects together in the realm of factories or production at all. Volkswagen has NO interaction with Quantumscape they just invested 300 million early and are still in profit and it's just a hedge.
CATL's Condensed Battery is reported to have up to 500 Wh/Kg energy density. Silicon anode nanostructured materials from companies like Amprius Technologies and Sila Nanotechnologies offer similar or greater energy densities Lithium Ion, LFP, Sodium Ion and other battery chemistries. Tesla's 3rd generation 4680 cells, forecast for production near the end of next year, are also likely to incorporate silicon anodes for significantly higher energy densities. Solid state batteries will likely continue to have medical and aerospace applications (including EVTOLs, high performance drones, and medical device implants) as well as potential newer applications such as untethered robots and high end mobile devices.
Lithium has drawbacks, to include fire, slower recharge, cold weather weakness, and degradation. Look at all of the factors to grade which would be the future champion, once built out.
JamesVan - It was fresh water; not it gets put into solution with ore. While in this condition it is no longer fresh water so it is destroyed while in solution for purposes like drinking it, providing water to crops etc. Much of it eventually evaporates but it will not stay where it came from. More importantly; it simply won't happen. No one is going to let the equivelent of Lakes Michigan and Lake Erie be put to this use; that is 10% of all fresh water on earth. Lithium wont work for this reason, something else will need to come which can scale.
Where did you read that? Good to know though. We need more durable batteries so people will switch over to BEVs. Reliable ICE easily last 20 years. Mine almost 14 and 13 years and no signs of failing. Do want to save on fuel costs though.
Unless new battery technology is lighter per kilowatt than lithium and cold isn't it's Kryptonite I don't care. Lighter and less costly to the ecosphere.
You worded that like someone suggested they can't be made right now... the issue is reaching the energy density per cost of lithium ion, which will take some time.
How about a doped graphite like the NASA Neutrino Cube uses called graphine. Doped appropriately for N material and P material, spread into thin layers and separated by a polymer insulator-barrier. Or a Germanium semiconductor true solidstate battery.
The most annoying thing is when you ask what the cycles are, you get two different answers. A cycle could still be a cycle even though it still has 80% or ever 50%.
The carbon footprint is still very much existing during mining, manufacturing, transportation and charging with all batteries. There will never be a net zero or carbon neutral unless we stop manufacturing basically everything.
@dinosshed7462 Zero is the objective, but we should never let perfection get in the way of progress. Not to mention when using batteries, they are easy to repurpose and recycle, which will reduce the need for mining, and manufacturing, Not to mention as more Solar and Wind is used, this will reduce the level of emissions. Zero or carbon neutral is perfection, but we are making progress to these goals.
@tonespeaks unfortunately the objective is not attainable and is being driven by washed up lawyer's (also known as politicians) who have no idea how any of this works. Basic facts are that we cannot consume our way to net zero or close to it. Lithium battery production and EV'S are the biggest sideshow to what is actually happening. Burning coal and gas is literally where 80% of the emissions exist whilst transportation is not even 10%. Where's the focus? It's on transportation and not much else.
like us breathing it will never happen we need to breathe so trees to produce oxygen a symbiosis catch 22, chicken or the egg came first. we will never be net zero only when we die.
Once we eliminate the exhaust pipe we can address the one time costs you mentioned. These are thing we can improve. Salt instead of sodium etc. Recycled batteries using green energy will be very close to net zero.
I had trouble understanding what she was saying. She would zip through important concepts and I could not recognize the words she was saying, even after replaying.
well solid state means ultracap (solid dielectric nano layer capacitor), something like graphene style super caps up to 200Wh/kg or so already, try carbon fiber with znso4 water electrolysis electroplating bath, will cover the carbon fiber with zinc oxide as ultra thin dielectric oxide. in other words ALD thin film ultracaps/supercaps.
Current lithium batteries are really not safe. Causing house fires/garbage truck fires with ordinary consumer goods lithium batteries. In my opinion a safer battery technology is the priority.
If the solid state has more density and the lithium battery has a better discharge put them together in a layer where the power is stored in the solid state battery and discharged through the liquid part.
I feel the ability of ai with large language models can build batteries of ten times storage ability and being solid state batteries that really don't wear during discharge and charge we will be able to even have small personal Quad copters that haul a person 300 miles. We need to get these over to Ukraine pronto as they could carry land mines to good effect to stop the invader. Also they could easily carry the Carl Gustof for a killer unit.
As with any commercial interest it's all about money & ultimately control. The investors expect to at least double their money so don't want to develop a technology that you buy once and it lasts a lifetime, they want a technology that you have to renew periodically which increases profit and drives further R&D. I have a calculator made by Casio with a small solar cell and I have never replaced the battery since I bought it new 40 years ago, that was not a great commercial design for calculator or battery manufacturers. Point I am making is you can be damn sure technologies already exist that could give everyone on Earth energy independence that use abundant, sustainable materials like oxygen, hydrogen, silicon, aluminium, iron, calcium, sodium, etc. These technologies can NEVER be released open source as the population would just spiral out of control... and there is the quandary. Only mediocre technologies that can easily be controlled will be allowed to develop.
It's regulations, epa, permits, and bribes that stalls any battery factories to produce. China's model: make it first and deal with permits, copy rights and regulations later.😅
Solid state batteries may eventually go into production, but liquid electrolyte batteries are progressing so rapidly, that the advantages of solid state batteries may come too late to be useful. For grid scale energy storage, flow batteries seem ideal.
Unfortunately, for electric cars I live in rural Midwestern USA where almost all your driving distances are about 32 miles or longer one way. We lack charging stations and a common electric plug to charge many different electric vehicles. Solid state batteries could offer vehicles with longer ranges. The other facture is the cost of the batteries. Most Americans need a $20,000 to $25,000 car which even lithium ion batteries can not produce. For the adoption of all electric cars we will require a larger electrical grid/generating capacity as well as an up-dated electrical grid. Researching on and improving solid state batteries could make the possibility of electric cars feasible in the USA, but we also have other major hurdles to cross for a feasible electricified transportation structure. The most urgent need is an economical storage system for electrical power within the electric grid. This would allow more renewable energy sources without grid destabilization and the reduction in the amount of generating stations needed to meet grid demand.
We have some agrement there Dan; but if you agree that to reach the potential of taking over or at least most of light vehicles in by 2030 which is 7 years; a totally new battery tech is needed. While there are some attempts to process lithium without water; the time to change this will be probably on the order of a decade. We also don't know what impacts these may have. To have success, BEVs need a higher density, more scalable, safe battery; maybe Sodium or solid state will achive this but if not then you are looking at much flattened lithium production. Higher density safer batteries would make them lighter and safer, probably cheaper... but it is an IF.
REMEMBER THE OLD CAR BATTERIES WHICH NEEDED REFILLING WITH DISTILLED WATER A FEW TIMES IN THEIR LIFE CYCLE - THAT IS BECAUSE ALL OTHER ELEMENTS INSIDE HAVE LIFE BUT WATER WENT DRY... SAME NOW ALSO, SOLID STATE BATTERIES NEED SOME MOISTURE TO WORK AS INTENDED...
I need solid state battery’s just so my Ebike want burn 🔥 down my she shed or house 🏠 because I do sleep 🛌 with my Ebike, thieves are everywhere it’s always chained to my leg 🦵.
Do you sleep with your mobile phone ? Or do you lock that in your shed as well ? Let’s see , phone battery catches fire ignites composite wood bedside table, table starts pouring poison gas from the glue barely holding it together into the room , table ignites artificial bed cover, more poison gas, which sets fir to cheep mattress, mainly foam. Entire bedroom filled with flaming poisoned gas. Really lock the phone in the shed. Or perhaps admit lithium battery fires are so rare that the only time you think about them is when a right wing paper pretends one has happened.
Unfortunately, solid state lithium batteries will lose out to sodium ion, sodium sulphur, sodium aluminum, sulphur selenium, and more. I think their biggest threat is sodium whatever, because they are so much cheaper, like 1/10 the cost of solid state. A sodium ion battery pack for small cars will eventually be only $750 vs. $6000 for lithium ion and maybe $8000 for solid state. Nobody wants to pay 10 times more than sodium. Also, sodium batteries are less likely to catch fire than lithium.
HiNa told the world sodium batteries are about 30% cheaper than LFP in mass production in a few years. Today they cost about double of a LFP. That would make it 4615,-- US$ instead of 6000,-- in a few years. I don't know what batteries you have in mind. I do not know any 6000 US$ Li-Ion Batteries. But your numbers are heavily skewered.
Sodium has the potential to be 40 dollars per kwh at the best case and LFP 45 dollars. It's not a huge difference. Nobody talks about Sodium main draw back though which is high voltage drop as it discharges that can half the amount of power it produces as it is in the lower third of its state of charge which makes it hard for most applications. Also, the volumetric density is much lower.
@@matthewmanzi9504 And the voltage is lower than lfp which means more cells, more cell walls and supporting structure in between. Sodium has two real advantages which would make it a perfect fit for truck and agricultural applications. It stands very low temperatures and it has a much higher charge/discharge capacity than LFP. But if you pair LFP with a bank of NMC cells or Supercaps and a built in heater those would be even better than Na+ cells.
Notice these interviews don’t give the the reason why Chinese developers are so far advanced in the electrical storage segment? Having unlimited funding because they are government partnerships. R&D sectors capable of working on hundreds of individual project trials, with thousands of engineers at one time. What R@D capacity can others muster to even compare? NASA going to the moon would be comparable recently. Energy production and storage, reducing oil consumption in China is a priority to reduce reliance on foreign resources, so it is strategic. A group of individual profit driven companies in other countries will never keep up.
There is currently a Japanese owned cargo ship "on fire" off the Dutch coast. The "Freemantle Highway" is carrying nearly 3000 motor cars, of which 500 are said to be Mercedes Benz battery electric vehicles. It is believed that the origin of the fire is one of these vehicles. It only took one defective vehicle. The ship is in danger of sinking. One crew-member has lost his life. The energy density of sodium batteries is less than that of lithium batteries (160 watt-hours per kilogramme instead of 220 watt-hours per kilogramme), but they are less likely to explode. I don't know why this is so. I understood Frau Rudd to have told us that in normal use, her solid state batteries are totally safe. The interviewer was correct to express surprise, because whatever you use to make a battery, its purpose is to concentrate a lot of energy into a very small space. And that sounds like a recipe for a bomb. The Freemantle Highway will (of necessity) be left to burn. It will probably sink.
It's not the first time a ship has catched fire and sunk . Gas powered cars burn down all the time. I don't see this accident as reason to believe Li-Ion batteries are especially unsafe.
@@EinzigfreierName And bicycles? Do they catch fire? In the UK there have been eight deaths attributable to the Li-ion batteries in bicycles, since 2021. Yesterday there was another such fire near my own home, blocking the exit path from a communal building. The occupants were lucky to escape. Petrol fires can at least be extinguished - by depriving them of oxygen. Batteries bring their own oxygen supply with them.
@@paulsutton5896 A lot of things can catch fire. Do we ban all of them from our lifes? Houses burn down for a lot of reasons. Electric bicycles are just one of them. There are ships that transport gasoline and LNG. This is not a problem but transporting electric cars is? Doesn't make sense to me.
@@EinzigfreierName We already have laws which ban dangerous products. For instance, the electrical wiring in your house must (by law) meet certain standards. Gasoline and LNG are transported in specialized containers. It is not as if we try to carry petrol around in open buckets. But that is the equivalent of where we are with batteries. Rechargeable batteries are relatively new, and the laws do not yet reflect their possible dangers and defects. It is still possible to sell batteries based on metallic lithium (ie not compounds), where the batteries grow internal "dendrites" and short themselves out, usually explosively. Most of the the dodgy batteries come from China, and we rely on assurances given by the sellers. Do you trust them? I would rather not have to.
AND NOW The fire IS out. The ship is in port. AND "The Dutch coast guard stressed the cause of the fire on the 11-deck ship was unknown and authorities were careful not to speculate." . STOP GUESSING . And btw, it was nearly 4,000 cars on board.
No one wants to spend half+ the total cost of the vehicle after an accident with an EV that affects its battery. No one wants to pay crazy insurance premiums on an EV if repair/replacement costs are that high. No one wants to pay more for an EV than they would a comparable ICE vehicle. Then there are the safety aspects to consider of various battery technologies, as well as the typical climate conditions they are used in, charging infrastructure, etc.
One what? The issue is not making a functioning solid-state battery; that is pretty easy nowadays. The issue is making them cost effective vs lithium ion, which no one has managed to do yet. It will happen but will take some time.
China automaker is powering its EVs with Sodium Solid State batteries within a year. It’s cheaper, faster charging and safer than the current Lithium-Ion battery.
The Lithium ion battery market is dead following numerous EV fires caused by them with the result the insurance industry has made it difficult for Jo Blow to insure such a car with the result that EV sales have tanked with Ford and GM stopping production and VW reducing their output by 30%. GM, Toyota and even Tesla see the future of EV in hydrogen fuel cells or modified fossil fuel engines. The battery powered car is going the same way as those at the beginning of the 20th century and solid state batteries will not change the range limits from limited charging stations and the intermittency of wind and solar power on which they are supposed to rely or the pollution and slavery linked to the raw materials required to make such batteries.
the problem of thermal runaway is still not manageable. Nobody talks about it? EV fires can't be put out and the fumes produced are killing firefighters.
Science needs to figure out the standard model a little better. Something is wrong somewhere! Figure out how to use the power of the proton or nuetron. Then there is nuclear. Endless possibilities. Some may just need safety concerns to work out. Dealing primarily just with the electron. Millions of possibilities exist, however. Very interesting topic.
how much water is required to refine a ton of lithium - search that - your first results should say 2.2 million liters or about 500,000 gallons. Multiply by the number of tons processed in 2022 which is 120,000 tons. You will then be able to compare that to the volume of all fresh water on the planet - current for lithium processing is 1% of all fresh water - simple math some clowns can't manage.
Lithium refining as we know it is 100s of years old process. It is wrong to think we can not improve on it. The SXEW process uses about 10 gallons of fresh water per ton of lithium hydroxide produced. This water is used to dissolve the lithium ore and to extract the lithium from the solution. The water is then recycled and reused in the process. This is the process Tesla will be using at it's new lithium refinery. No evaporation ponds.
"In terms of the materials used". She uses that phrase a few times, and I think the correct way to interpret this is - theoretically. Thats so annoying with SSB - is there any real world proof on the cell level that any gof these statements is true? I do know but looking at Sphere's paper(Navigating Solid state battery hype: Industry-Driven assessment of potential and limitations) the answer is NO
Holy shit why is your default audio levels so loud compared to other channels and even adverts are a whisper compared to your recording audio levels. Standardize your audio levels.
...because it's all propaganda to lure us to buy EVs that in fact aren't as great as they paint them to be? Don't get me wrong I love EVS, just not the current ones, in the distant future I'm sure EVs will be real good. Don't believe me? Just buy one and never sell it and you will see what I mean.
It is generally acknowledged that those who buy an EV, or even rent one for a while, never want to go back to an ICE car. That isn't propaganda, that's experience.
@@danielcarroll3358 Tell that to that guy that set it's tesla on fire after buying it second hand and discovering he needed to replace the battery for 20,000 euros.
The key for meeting the promise of BEVs is to get a more scalable chemistry. 130,000 tons of lithium used 1% of the fresh water on the planet in 2023. This production was only enough to make about 3% of new vehicles. To increase Lithium production to increase the market share to 10% therefore would require 10% of the fresh water on the planet equivelllent to the Great Lakes Michigan and Erie. This is not going to happen. Thus a Non lithium chemistry is required.
Agreed on the necessity of new battery chemistry. In terms of fresh water consumption of lithium production we would love to see these numbers. We hardly doubt that 1%! 2,200 litre of fresh water to produce one ton of lithium carbonate. That doesnt add up to 1% of the world's fresh water consumption.
That is nonsense. Around 10% of global new vehicle sales in 2022 were fully battery electric and the global market share will very likely be over 75% by the end of this decade. All the batteries in almost all of those vehicles will be lithium-ion. Other chemistries will make up a small proportion of all automotive battery production. Fresh water use will not be an issue and neither will anything else.
@@batterygeneration Humans have been evaporating water to refine lithium for centuries. The SXEW process planed for use in Tesla's new lithium refinery now under constructions uses 10 gallons of water per ton to dissolve the lithium and recycles it to use again. People who take a snapshot and project it ahead generally are very wrong. This process is not unique to Tesla.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:19 🎙️ Solid-state batteries promise higher energy density but face challenges in mass production due to material processing and cost factors.
03:06 ⚖️ Solid-state batteries offer the potential for double the energy density of lithium-ion batteries, making them a viable option for electric vehicles and other applications.
04:08 🚗 Leading companies like CATL, QuantumScape, ProLogium, and Solid Power are investing in solid-state battery research and development for future applications in various industries.
10:54 🔄 Solid-state batteries require careful optimization of interface and interfacial resistance between different materials to enhance performance and stability.
17:19 🔋 Solid-state batteries can potentially revolutionize electric vehicles, providing higher energy density, longer ranges, and reduced carbon footprint.
24:37 🔥 Solid-state batteries are considered safer than traditional lithium-ion batteries due to reduced flammability and improved material safety.
26:00 🌐 Sodium batteries show promise in terms of sustainability due to greater availability of sodium compared to lithium, but technical challenges remain to achieve equivalent energy density.
27:23 ♻️ Solid-state batteries present recycling challenges due to fused interfaces and high-temperature assembly, requiring advancements in low-temperature disassembly and refining techniques.
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Walk in the park compared to the manufacturing challengers of early LCD flat screens !
Multivariate, indeterminate prognosis?
excuse me!@@davidwilkie9551
One thing is for sure, the race is on. There is development going on 24 hours a day all over the world both public and in secret. The next few years will be amazing. Not all of the new batteries will be useful in cars but that is not the only market. Grid storage, home storage, and many other uses will take advantage of almost all of them. The important thing is to have many different designs using different minerals so the price and availability of any one mineral or material doesn't become a limiting factor.
Good comments. Yes it’s not just about cars. For example petrol powered machines like lawnmowers, grass trimmers, leaf blowers are all now available using battery power. I changed all three and now recharge them from my solar system. A small but useful contribution when the global market is considered. There are so many applications for battery storage already in use. Many are not critically limited by weight, public lighting is a good example of a stationary application. Having a range of different battery chemistries in use sounds like the right way to go.
If we could create lithium air batteries we would be set. There was a breakthrough in 2023 making one solid state battery at room tempature, but a ton of work is needed to make them usable.
We have batteries already that are very very good compared to something like Tesla. Tons of new technologies out in the lab, but actually scaling them or things like longetitivty is the problem.
I think some tech will go from certain sectors like aerospace, medical, or any industry where they will upfront the cost. Then trickle down.
@@dianapennepacker6854 Yep.
I think it's the key point you mentioned
The next battery breakthrough has been 5 years away for the last 100 years... The problem is when a laboratory battery meets the real world, we already see Tesla refusing warranty because the 'battery was abused' - by fast charging too often, letting battery run too low etc etc....
Solid state as said in the video have issues with connectivity due to difficulties with connection surfaces between solids. A simular approach of using lithium metal but still having a liquid electrolyte that is non flamable is the likely winner.
I think a lot of it comes down to business models. Battery companies spent a ton of money on research and development on the current battery structure, and they need to get that back.
The problem with that is that if your competitor is offering a significantly better battery you lower the price to sell yours.
Even big oil have a portfolio for EVs in case you guys didn’t know.😉
Markets don't care about business models or how much the businesses have invested into a specific technology.
@@Anomize23 As in BP spending $100 million to buy super chargers. Sure they can read the writing on the wall. They still want to milk oil while they can.
I agree, TV sales in the uk and for that matter virtually all technologies are available historically in Japan firstly, although this has shifted now to China and Taiwan etc to some extent. Mainstream shops where selling flat screen TVs for ages which were still analogue and didn’t have a digital receiver, likewise led TVs arrived in UK maybe 10 years after coming to market in Japan. This latency allows the manufacturer’s to maximise the profit on older technologies, a proportion of the profit being reinvested into new technology development. We are in a permanent state of delay in the UK, 5-10 years behind
Another great video. I can't pretend to understand it all but I did gain some knowledge.
My first view of your youtubes Patrick, great discussion with Professor Jennifer. Good information. Yes I am convinced that solid state batteries are the next milestone, although, as pointed out the chemistry involved needs continued research. I commend you and Professor Rupp for bringing this information to a broader audience
meanwhile yoshimo is already marketing one. the weight advantage is clear. the output is higher but it doesn't seem to have a charging advantage. the power tool market could heat up again with these.
Would have liked to hear more on just the safety component from this researcher. for example comparing lithium-ion vs solid state
Maxell of Japan already commercialized solid state batteries for medical equipment.
Lithium as a resource is quite abundant throughout the earth's crust. The problem I believe has to do with existing suppliers ability to meet marked demands based on inadequate production methods as well as certain countries and battery companies buying up existing mining capacity around the world.
There is one more point though and that is environmental considerations no one wants a mining operation as there closest neighbor and the impact to plants, animals, water and air.
Fairly optimistic video I think.. huge research is ongoing, and batteries will get better and better.. we are gradually piecing together a low carbon future...
Shame we left it until far to late . GHG`s are still accelerating upwards at there fastest ever rate .
Very good interview Patrick to the Mit professor Jennifer Rupp, thank you for sharing it.
I wish you could to also interview to Dr. Billy Wu, associate professor (reader) in the Dyson School of desigh enginnering at Imperial College London, Reaserching batteries, fuel cells and 3D printing, teaching materials, manufacturing and energy related topics, to get his point of view on the matter. I will be waiting for the video of the interview, thanks a lot.
Also Greetings from Peru and many successes.
Wh/kg is technically not an energy density measure used in the battery industry, but the "specific energy". Rather, the volumetric energy density is measured in Wh/L. The energy density of the latest batteries is now reaching 1000Wh/L for Amprius products and they also claim specific energy of around 500Wh/kg. Both of these measures are important for mobile applications where weight and space are always in design considerations.
Hi, thanks a lot for this brilliant video and reportage. It's not the problem of chemistry itself- the density mesured in KW/h per mass storage are more significant to develop batteries with high energy densities (+/- 500 - 800 W/kg) and of course interresting recharging capabilities. It's true, we must find the "Holy Grail" to keep out most incovenients and benefits from diverse battery-chemistries like sodium with better cathodes and anodes to charge them faster, if it could be possible to charge a Electric-cars with the speed and power like gasoline powered cars, then we have more people to buy this motorisation in future... I drive electric today, and I'm happy with my car for short distances a electric car is a must-have... For myself it's the future of transportation - just like to charge a little bit faster... 🙂
You hit the nail on the head, an EV is a second car for school run and shopping, with an ICE vehicle for proper travel...
SS Bats will eventually overtake liquid, simply because they have a higher energy density per cost ceiling. Liquid will continue to be more cost-efficient for a while, because we've poured decades into refining the design and manufacture of that tech. SS will take some time to catch up, but will inevitably do so, because liquid will hit a maximum that is much lower than that of SS bats. Hard to say when that will happen but probably within the decade.
Thank you for recording this.
Your intro is too goddamn loud. Thanks for the info tho.
Loved the podcast ! Thank you.
Thank you for the informative session
Great guest!
The real question is the resource of the raw materials in the manufacture of lithium ion batteries , the cost and the safety of lithium ion batteries when it comes to a global market ! The raw materials used in the manufacture of sodium batteries are possibly less expensive, and I am sure with the development of sodium batteries equal to that of lithium ion, in the future , sodium batteries will be the ultimate global winner, for many practical and functional reasons!
Yoshino is claiming that they are using Solid State batteries that have comparable output to other lithium chemistries. Any comments on this?
I have a question maybe you could answer during discharge positive Lithium Ions flow from the anode to the cathode how do they over come the 3.7v voltage potential of the cathode?
Further down the line once capacity is sufficient, which it arguably already is , people will look for the battery technology that gives the most lifetime in combination with the intial purchase cost. The cost effect of life expired batteries in the future is an unpredictable thing so to me it's worth a premium to have the security of a higher warranted/expected lifetime at point of inital purchase
How do the batteries get charged? I have many lipo batteries. I charge them with electricity from my home that comes from different energy sources. Thank you very excited about the future.
current Liit msy have increase in energy denesty but not charging fast as numbers that SSB showing
Thank you
I came back to watch this video again but noticed the negative comment about quantum scape was removed from the older version of this video. I wonder why?
Great video
The solid state batteries are likely usable in airplanes of the future. Especially smaller airplanes flying up to 1000 km
Also in drones (especially race drones)
25% solid state battery aur 75% Namak ki battery
I think the biggest part of the problem is manufacturing you hear about tons and tons of new technology breakthroughs on much better batteries it’s one thing to create a new battery in a lab but it’s another thing to be able to mass produce it and actually get it into the market I think that’s part of the problem as I said many companies have made a much better battery, but can they get it into mass production properly? That’s a part of the problem
But we are....Yoshino makes some great solid state batteries
GO SOLID GO! :D
Many thanks for this video and competent introduction into this technology.
Never got described such particular.
I agree to the voices in comments the sodium technology will at least win the race of the chemistries for mass production. SIB will instantly benefit from this researches and appliances, because Li+ and Na+ is same kind of nature.
What I miss, and I afraid its related by companies IP, that no closer details are granted how to manufacture and improve production chain for more sustainability and in future aspects of environmental production and recycling.
And here especially the german inventions in possible 3D-Printing of anodes/cathodes as well the seperator materials to enable EU-Industrie to gain and conserve german inventions for own battery mass production.
Instead of this e.g. we had get notice the inovative silicone anode production goes to Australia, and is not keeping hold within EU. Its seems to be german technology leadership let once more far-east economies grow, instead better let benefit germany/EU economy for a while. Might an argument not to spend more money for EU-High-Tec-Education, when not pay off. But as we know, its declared cruitial.
This discussion is not for the uneducated. I need a car guy level discussion. I feel we will move towards EV but, the government needs to step up and help the movement get organized. Right now we still can’t get rid of mirrors in vehicles. We have a dysfunctional government and culture. JMO❤️✌️👍
Vielen Dank für diesen interessanten Beitrag.
Ein gutes Format um die Menschen bei den Entwicklungen mitzunehmen.😊
Als Keramiker interessiert mich vor allem diese Seite. Welche Keramik kommt zum Einsatz,wie hoch sind die Brenntemperaturen, wie wird die Homogenität der verwendeten Rohstoffe gewährleistet, welcher Formgebungsprozeß ist vorgesehen, wo verlaufen die Schnittstellen zwischen Industrie und Forschung? Manchmal ist der Blick von außen auch hilfreich. Viele Dinge müssen auch nicht immer neu erfunden werden. 🤔
this was very informative, one of the things I'm most curious about is why are solid state batteries as tough as they are to develop, what are the major issues? Surely it can't be just dendrites.
What about the Uramkum battety? What happened to them?
Great!
So eine coole kluge Frau, toller Beitrag wieder
Very difficult to watch and get educated on batteries when jennifer rupp is very beautiful 😍
"Another energy storage and conversion scheme" ....yes, something beyond these 250 W/kg playthings is needed.
e=mc2 suggests we have yet to scratch the surface of the possible.
Will it last and how safe?
Hi, She said 22:28, 10,000 cycle so 10,000cycles (if 1 cycle means the battery getting charged fully once)*1000kms/cycle = Meaning car can run for 10,000,000 Kms on Solid State Battery??
10k cycles possible on many chemistries.
Just depends on the chosen maximum voltage and time at that voltage plus temperature control.
th-cam.com/video/rOAYjcO6kao/w-d-xo.html
Hybrid batteries, lets do it now
QuantumScape will genuinely change the world and I'm excited to be able to witness that
Quantumscape is a SPAC scam they have never showed any proof. And even Volkswagen said that they never received any proof or any kind of demo cells. And they rather keep silent about it because they don't want to speculate or have the stock implode more than it does. Even now Volkswagen has profit on the investments. But Volkswagen doesn't actively involve with Quantumscape. They are busy with Northvolt and Gotion. THeir current factories are build with them. Gotion for LFP factories for their Volkswagen ID2 in 2025. And Northvolt they are close working with regarding their Natrium-Ion batteries. Volkswagen isn't interacting with Quantumscape at all. It's just investments to reduce risks, Quantumscape was purely a hedge. Nothing else. Volkswagen does not invest any pennyt more in Quantumscape nor do they have any projects together in the realm of factories or production at all. Volkswagen has NO interaction with Quantumscape they just invested 300 million early and are still in profit and it's just a hedge.
Maxell will sell you some if you need.
CATL's Condensed Battery is reported to have up to 500 Wh/Kg energy density. Silicon anode nanostructured materials from companies like Amprius Technologies and Sila Nanotechnologies offer similar or greater energy densities Lithium Ion, LFP, Sodium Ion and other battery chemistries. Tesla's 3rd generation 4680 cells, forecast for production near the end of next year, are also likely to incorporate silicon anodes for significantly higher energy densities. Solid state batteries will likely continue to have medical and aerospace applications (including EVTOLs, high performance drones, and medical device implants) as well as potential newer applications such as untethered robots and high end mobile devices.
Volume setting too high..🗣️
Everyone is sitting on the edge of their seat, chewing their nails about batteries. Must be important. 😉
Lithium has drawbacks, to include fire, slower recharge, cold weather weakness, and degradation. Look at all of the factors to grade which would be the future champion, once built out.
JamesVan - It was fresh water; not it gets put into solution with ore. While in this condition it is no longer fresh water so it is destroyed while in solution for purposes like drinking it, providing water to crops etc. Much of it eventually evaporates but it will not stay where it came from. More importantly; it simply won't happen. No one is going to let the equivelent of Lakes Michigan and Lake Erie be put to this use; that is 10% of all fresh water on earth. Lithium wont work for this reason, something else will need to come which can scale.
👍
This was fantastic, informative, and free of the Musky sensationalized aroma.
Musk is your Daddy.
Current energy density 200Wh /kg is a big joke , industry needs at least 400Wh/kg to go forward .
👍👍👍
Solid state will be coming by Panasonic in a year or so!
Where did you read that? Good to know though. We need more durable batteries so people will switch over to BEVs.
Reliable ICE easily last 20 years. Mine almost 14 and 13 years and no signs of failing. Do want to save on fuel costs though.
Unless new battery technology is lighter per kilowatt than lithium and cold isn't it's Kryptonite I don't care. Lighter and less costly to the ecosphere.
There is literally a new battery company from Japan selling them right now. Yoshino solid state batteries
You worded that like someone suggested they can't be made right now... the issue is reaching the energy density per cost of lithium ion, which will take some time.
until there is a true graphite nanotechnology solid state power source, we're still in the infancy. LiOn is not the long term answer...
How about a doped graphite like the NASA Neutrino Cube uses called graphine. Doped appropriately for N material and P material, spread into thin layers and separated by a polymer insulator-barrier. Or a Germanium semiconductor true solidstate battery.
Space and military (NOT tanks - idiotic!) and medical (maybe) I expect are high on the list of customers for SSBs!
AI will SPEED things up.
You mean Skynet. Yes. Soon.
The most annoying thing is when you ask what the cycles are, you get two different answers. A cycle could still be a cycle even though it still has 80% or ever 50%.
The carbon footprint is still very much existing during mining, manufacturing, transportation and charging with all batteries. There will never be a net zero or carbon neutral unless we stop manufacturing basically everything.
It'll probably have to be a combination of slashing emissions to a managable amount, and the rest needs to be captured onsite or so.
@dinosshed7462 Zero is the objective, but we should never let perfection get in the way of progress. Not to mention when using batteries, they are easy to repurpose and recycle, which will reduce the need for mining, and manufacturing, Not to mention as more Solar and Wind is used, this will reduce the level of emissions. Zero or carbon neutral is perfection, but we are making progress to these goals.
@tonespeaks unfortunately the objective is not attainable and is being driven by washed up lawyer's (also known as politicians) who have no idea how any of this works. Basic facts are that we cannot consume our way to net zero or close to it.
Lithium battery production and EV'S are the biggest sideshow to what is actually happening. Burning coal and gas is literally where 80% of the emissions exist whilst transportation is not even 10%. Where's the focus? It's on transportation and not much else.
like us breathing it will never happen we need to breathe so trees to produce oxygen a symbiosis catch 22, chicken or the egg came first. we will never be net zero only when we die.
Once we eliminate the exhaust pipe we can address the one time costs you mentioned. These are thing we can improve. Salt instead of sodium etc. Recycled batteries using green energy will be very close to net zero.
The next battery breakthrough has been 5 years away for the last 100 years....
I had trouble understanding what she was saying. She would zip through important concepts and I could not recognize the words she was saying, even after replaying.
Then add captions in your viewing 😉
well solid state means ultracap (solid dielectric nano layer capacitor), something like graphene style super caps up to 200Wh/kg or so already, try carbon fiber with znso4 water electrolysis electroplating bath, will cover the carbon fiber with zinc oxide as ultra thin dielectric oxide. in other words ALD thin film ultracaps/supercaps.
Current lithium batteries are really not safe. Causing house fires/garbage truck fires with ordinary consumer goods lithium batteries. In my opinion a safer battery technology is the priority.
Meanwhile, yoshino is offering solid state batteries to buy right now.
If the solid state has more density and the lithium battery has a better discharge put them together in a layer where the power is stored in the solid state battery and discharged through the liquid part.
Dry batteries have been around since the 19th century.
I feel the ability of ai with large language models can build batteries of ten times storage ability and being solid state batteries that really don't wear during discharge and charge we will be able to even have small personal Quad copters that haul a person 300 miles. We need to get these over to Ukraine pronto as they could carry land mines to good effect to stop the invader. Also they could easily carry the Carl Gustof for a killer unit.
Stating desired results is mind-boggling simple. Science fiction even, like Olaf Stapledon's universe.
As with any commercial interest it's all about money & ultimately control. The investors expect to at least double their money so don't want to develop a technology that you buy once and it lasts a lifetime, they want a technology that you have to renew periodically which increases profit and drives further R&D. I have a calculator made by Casio with a small solar cell and I have never replaced the battery since I bought it new 40 years ago, that was not a great commercial design for calculator or battery manufacturers. Point I am making is you can be damn sure technologies already exist that could give everyone on Earth energy independence that use abundant, sustainable materials like oxygen, hydrogen, silicon, aluminium, iron, calcium, sodium, etc. These technologies can NEVER be released open source as the population would just spiral out of control... and there is the quandary. Only mediocre technologies that can easily be controlled will be allowed to develop.
It's regulations, epa, permits, and bribes that stalls any battery factories to produce. China's model: make it first and deal with permits, copy rights and regulations later.😅
Solid state batteries may eventually go into production, but liquid electrolyte batteries are progressing so rapidly, that the advantages of solid state batteries may come too late to be useful.
For grid scale energy storage, flow batteries seem ideal.
Unfortunately, for electric cars I live in rural Midwestern USA where almost all your driving distances are about 32 miles or longer one way. We lack charging stations and a common electric plug to charge many different electric vehicles. Solid state batteries could offer vehicles with longer ranges. The other facture is the cost of the batteries. Most Americans need a $20,000 to $25,000 car which even lithium ion batteries can not produce. For the adoption of all electric cars we will require a larger electrical grid/generating capacity as well as an up-dated electrical grid. Researching on and improving solid state batteries could make the possibility of electric cars feasible in the USA, but we also have other major hurdles to cross for a feasible electricified transportation structure. The most urgent need is an economical storage system for electrical power within the electric grid. This would allow more renewable energy sources without grid destabilization and the reduction in the amount of generating stations needed to meet grid demand.
This battery will take time to come on smartphones sadly
We have some agrement there Dan; but if you agree that to reach the potential of taking over or at least most of light vehicles in by 2030 which is 7 years; a totally new battery tech is needed. While there are some attempts to process lithium without water; the time to change this will be probably on the order of a decade. We also don't know what impacts these may have. To have success, BEVs need a higher density, more scalable, safe battery; maybe Sodium or solid state will achive this but if not then you are looking at much flattened lithium production. Higher density safer batteries would make them lighter and safer, probably cheaper... but it is an IF.
REMEMBER THE OLD CAR BATTERIES WHICH NEEDED REFILLING WITH DISTILLED WATER A FEW TIMES IN THEIR LIFE CYCLE - THAT IS BECAUSE ALL OTHER ELEMENTS INSIDE HAVE LIFE BUT WATER WENT DRY... SAME NOW ALSO, SOLID STATE BATTERIES NEED SOME MOISTURE TO WORK AS INTENDED...
I need solid state battery’s just so my Ebike want burn 🔥 down my she shed or house 🏠 because I do sleep 🛌 with my Ebike, thieves are everywhere it’s always chained to my leg 🦵.
Do you sleep with your mobile phone ? Or do you lock that in your shed as well ? Let’s see , phone battery catches fire ignites composite wood bedside table, table starts pouring poison gas from the glue barely holding it together into the room , table ignites artificial bed cover, more poison gas, which sets fir to cheep mattress, mainly foam. Entire bedroom filled with flaming poisoned gas. Really lock the phone in the shed. Or perhaps admit lithium battery fires are so rare that the only time you think about them is when a right wing paper pretends one has happened.
Wake up guys There here Yoshino B4000
Solid state battery aur Namak ki battery donon sath mein Karon Mein Lagegi
Unfortunately, solid state lithium batteries will lose out to sodium ion, sodium sulphur, sodium aluminum, sulphur selenium, and more. I think their biggest threat is sodium whatever, because they are so much cheaper, like 1/10 the cost of solid state. A sodium ion battery pack for small cars will eventually be only $750 vs. $6000 for lithium ion and maybe $8000 for solid state. Nobody wants to pay 10 times more than sodium. Also, sodium batteries are less likely to catch fire than lithium.
Cheaper but less densinity
HiNa told the world sodium batteries are about 30% cheaper than LFP in mass production in a few years. Today they cost about double of a LFP. That would make it 4615,-- US$ instead of 6000,-- in a few years. I don't know what batteries you have in mind. I do not know any 6000 US$ Li-Ion Batteries. But your numbers are heavily skewered.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Thank you for putting things in context, using the correct figures.
Sodium has the potential to be 40 dollars per kwh at the best case and LFP 45 dollars. It's not a huge difference. Nobody talks about Sodium main draw back though which is high voltage drop as it discharges that can half the amount of power it produces as it is in the lower third of its state of charge which makes it hard for most applications. Also, the volumetric density is much lower.
@@matthewmanzi9504 And the voltage is lower than lfp which means more cells, more cell walls and supporting structure in between. Sodium has two real advantages which would make it a perfect fit for truck and agricultural applications.
It stands very low temperatures and it has a much higher charge/discharge capacity than LFP. But if you pair LFP with a bank of NMC cells or Supercaps and a built in heater those would be even better than Na+ cells.
Solid-State Batteries are much safer no worries with fires ! 😉
Notice these interviews don’t give the the reason why Chinese developers are so far advanced in the electrical storage segment? Having unlimited funding because they are government partnerships. R&D sectors capable of working on hundreds of individual project trials, with thousands of engineers at one time. What R@D capacity can others muster to even compare? NASA going to the moon would be comparable recently. Energy production and storage, reducing oil consumption in China is a priority to reduce reliance on foreign resources, so it is strategic.
A group of individual profit driven companies in other countries will never keep up.
yeah?
🤨
There is currently a Japanese owned cargo ship "on fire" off the Dutch coast. The "Freemantle Highway" is carrying nearly 3000 motor cars, of which 500 are said to be Mercedes Benz battery electric vehicles. It is believed that the origin of the fire is one of these vehicles. It only took one defective vehicle. The ship is in danger of sinking. One crew-member has lost his life.
The energy density of sodium batteries is less than that of lithium batteries (160 watt-hours per kilogramme instead of 220 watt-hours per kilogramme), but they are less likely to explode.
I don't know why this is so.
I understood Frau Rudd to have told us that in normal use, her solid state batteries are totally safe.
The interviewer was correct to express surprise, because whatever you use to make a battery, its purpose is to concentrate a lot of energy into a very small space.
And that sounds like a recipe for a bomb.
The Freemantle Highway will (of necessity) be left to burn. It will probably sink.
It's not the first time a ship has catched fire and sunk . Gas powered cars burn down all the time. I don't see this accident as reason to believe Li-Ion batteries are especially unsafe.
@@EinzigfreierName
And bicycles? Do they catch fire?
In the UK there have been eight deaths attributable to the Li-ion batteries in bicycles, since 2021.
Yesterday there was another such fire near my own home, blocking the exit path from a communal building. The occupants were lucky to escape.
Petrol fires can at least be extinguished - by depriving them of oxygen.
Batteries bring their own oxygen supply with them.
@@paulsutton5896 A lot of things can catch fire. Do we ban all of them from our lifes? Houses burn down for a lot of reasons. Electric bicycles are just one of them. There are ships that transport gasoline and LNG. This is not a problem but transporting electric cars is? Doesn't make sense to me.
@@EinzigfreierName
We already have laws which ban dangerous products. For instance, the electrical wiring in your house must (by law) meet certain standards.
Gasoline and LNG are transported in specialized containers. It is not as if we try to carry petrol around in open buckets.
But that is the equivalent of where we are with batteries.
Rechargeable batteries are relatively new, and the laws do not yet reflect their possible dangers and defects.
It is still possible to sell batteries based on metallic lithium (ie not compounds), where the batteries grow internal "dendrites" and short themselves out, usually explosively.
Most of the the dodgy batteries come from China, and we rely on assurances given by the sellers.
Do you trust them?
I would rather not have to.
AND NOW
The fire IS out.
The ship is in port.
AND
"The Dutch coast guard stressed the cause of the fire on the 11-deck ship was unknown and authorities were careful not to speculate."
.
STOP GUESSING
.
And btw, it was nearly 4,000 cars on board.
No one wants to spend half+ the total cost of the vehicle after an accident with an EV that affects its battery. No one wants to pay crazy insurance premiums on an EV if repair/replacement costs are that high. No one wants to pay more for an EV than they would a comparable ICE vehicle. Then there are the safety aspects to consider of various battery technologies, as well as the typical climate conditions they are used in, charging infrastructure, etc.
There is less chance of fire with solid state batteries
Wait and see
Isn’t Already Toyota made one??
Promised for the last 10 years????
yoshimo already has one on the solar home generator market. very promising since it is a lot lighter.
One what? The issue is not making a functioning solid-state battery; that is pretty easy nowadays. The issue is making them cost effective vs lithium ion, which no one has managed to do yet. It will happen but will take some time.
@@catbert7 cost effective depends on the use.
China automaker is powering its EVs with Sodium Solid State batteries within a year. It’s cheaper, faster charging and safer than the current Lithium-Ion battery.
Where? Brands and models, please.
@@umka7536 It was announced for the BYD Seagull at least, but information from China is generally far from reliable...
There are downsides to sodium, density is bad and it's not that much cheaper. Seems perfect for grid storage and smoothing
Chinese car? Yikes!
😂. Additional weight , cost to manufacturer and low density are still huge barriers for the auto market. Come back in 5 to 10 years
The Lithium ion battery market is dead following numerous EV fires caused by them with the result the insurance industry has made it difficult for Jo Blow to insure such a car with the result that EV sales have tanked with Ford and GM stopping production and VW reducing their output by 30%. GM, Toyota and even Tesla see the future of EV in hydrogen fuel cells or modified fossil fuel engines. The battery powered car is going the same way as those at the beginning of the 20th century and solid state batteries will not change the range limits from limited charging stations and the intermittency of wind and solar power on which they are supposed to rely or the pollution and slavery linked to the raw materials required to make such batteries.
the problem of thermal runaway is still not manageable. Nobody talks about it?
EV fires can't be put out and the fumes produced are killing firefighters.
Science needs to figure out the standard model a little better. Something is wrong somewhere! Figure out how to use the power of the proton or nuetron. Then there is nuclear. Endless possibilities. Some may just need safety concerns to work out. Dealing primarily just with the electron. Millions of possibilities exist, however. Very interesting topic.
how much water is required to refine a ton of lithium - search that - your first results should say 2.2 million liters or about 500,000 gallons. Multiply by the number of tons processed in 2022 which is 120,000 tons. You will then be able to compare that to the volume of all fresh water on the planet - current for lithium processing is 1% of all fresh water - simple math some clowns can't manage.
Does the water get destroyed?
Lithium refining as we know it is 100s of years old process. It is wrong to think we can not improve on it.
The SXEW process uses about 10 gallons of fresh water per ton of lithium hydroxide produced. This water is used to dissolve the lithium ore and to extract the lithium from the solution. The water is then recycled and reused in the process. This is the process Tesla will be using at it's new lithium refinery. No evaporation ponds.
"In terms of the materials used". She uses that phrase a few times, and I think the correct way to interpret this is - theoretically. Thats so annoying with SSB - is there any real world proof on the cell level that any gof these statements is true?
I do know but looking at Sphere's paper(Navigating Solid state battery hype: Industry-Driven assessment of potential and limitations) the answer is NO
Holy shit why is your default audio levels so loud compared to other channels and even adverts are a whisper compared to your recording audio levels. Standardize your audio levels.
...because it's all propaganda to lure us to buy EVs that in fact aren't as great as they paint them to be? Don't get me wrong I love EVS, just not the current ones, in the distant future I'm sure EVs will be real good. Don't believe me? Just buy one and never sell it and you will see what I mean.
It is generally acknowledged that those who buy an EV, or even rent one for a while, never want to go back to an ICE car. That isn't propaganda, that's experience.
@@danielcarroll3358 Tell that to that guy that set it's tesla on fire after buying it second hand and discovering he needed to replace the battery for 20,000 euros.
Cancelled my interest in nickel for EV batteries.. Better using solar power as BMW build its new car.
The key for meeting the promise of BEVs is to get a more scalable chemistry. 130,000 tons of lithium used 1% of the fresh water on the planet in 2023. This production was only enough to make about 3% of new vehicles. To increase Lithium production to increase the market share to 10% therefore would require 10% of the fresh water on the planet equivelllent to the Great Lakes Michigan and Erie. This is not going to happen. Thus a Non lithium chemistry is required.
Agreed on the necessity of new battery chemistry. In terms of fresh water consumption of lithium production we would love to see these numbers. We hardly doubt that 1%! 2,200 litre of fresh water to produce one ton of lithium carbonate. That doesnt add up to 1% of the world's fresh water consumption.
That is nonsense. Around 10% of global new vehicle sales in 2022 were fully battery electric and the global market share will very likely be over 75% by the end of this decade. All the batteries in almost all of those vehicles will be lithium-ion. Other chemistries will make up a small proportion of all automotive battery production. Fresh water use will not be an issue and neither will anything else.
@@batterygeneration
Humans have been evaporating water to refine lithium for centuries. The SXEW process planed for use in Tesla's new lithium refinery now under constructions uses 10 gallons of water per ton to dissolve the lithium and recycles it to use again. People who take a snapshot and project it ahead generally are very wrong. This process is not unique to Tesla.