Happy new year guys! Our course is currently at HALF THE PRICE for a limited amount of time, in the hopes that this will motivate you to take the leap and become a game dev in 2024: www.gamedevrocket.com/
This type of challenge are an awesome idea, you have a great format of content You have a platform to makes indie games devs shine. You can give them a medium to be broadcasted to a much larger audience Stop ruined it. Just host. You dont need to showcase yourself, just keep bringin more devs to this format and showcase them. By just doing that and offer this platform, you could shine too, in a better way Really, this is a diamond in brute, but I dont see you actually realized or could handle the type of direction that is needed for take this to its full potential
This almost felt like a mobile game ad. Like, the first dev made an interesting premise that kinda hooks you, and you're like heck yeah let's see where this goes aaaaand it's a top down management mobile game.
i actually feel like the management game is unique, the clowns and stuff is pretty cool, it's kinda weird how in this video it's the opposite reaction of the usual "wow they had such a good premise and then it turned into a shooter game"
@@TactfulWaggle Yeah, it was a nice change from the usual "lets make it a shooter". That being said, the original change _to_ a shooter I feel was necessary to push the other devs to actually put some substance into the game, seems up until that point it really just was a random hodge-podge of animations thrown into a blank space for nothing. I think the problem was everyone wanted to have a go at the MOCAP tech, which was the point of the video after all, but that didn't leave them much time to refine their idea into something that could benefit from the application of the MOCAP. Really it ended up not being relevant to how the game played at all; With the exception of the fun intro, the animations really could have been swapped for anything or even removed altogether and the game would have played and pretty much still looked the same. When it came to that gameplay though, maybe combining the management sim with the shooter would have been better than removing the one aspect completely. Could have made it a sort of "build your fairground, then fight your way out of it" kind of concept. Change that combat concept into a melee brawler or something rather than generic shooter, and you'd have had something that could have taken advantage of the MOCAP better too.
The initial developer really nailed it! I love the funny voice acting and the wakeup animation post getting sucked into the TV. Would love to see the game continued again from that point.
Yeah, maybe they can try again on developing a game with a different set of devs with fp in mind. Like a REDO video to give the first dev’ labor some justice!
Hmm, I disagree tbh. The first Dev made a really cool intro cutscene to a game, but he didn't make a game in any sense. I think for these challenges you NEED to establish a game loop first, and then worry about aesthetics a bit later. The first Dev, if they wanted to make a creepy horror game, should have made some creepy gameplay first. E.g. Walking through an environment with a flashlight that stops working occasionally, or something like that. Then, on their second development cycle they could have made the start to the game that they invisioned (because that start could be the intro to literally any game, even though the tone hints at something creepy it doesn't establish a genre). As it was they just made a cool cutscene, but a cutscene isn't a game. I did find it odd that Noa didn't make a FPS from that point though... Like, very bizarre move deciding to make it an isometric RTS style game when the start of the game is an FPS.
Bruh thornprod did not ignore the other guys ideas once but TWICE. The first guy actually did something interesting, but no, noah obviously had to make his simulator managing game like he always does.
I'm never taking a lessons from him. Especially since it seems like he is capable of making only one kind of game and disregarding everyone else's hard work lol.
Tbf, the first time, there wasn't a game, so i think he gets the pass there The second time, i think both BTP and LRG had dropped the ball -- they'd both just completely scrapped what was already there instead of building on it
@@fartfish1880Hahahahaha you are goofy. Completey disregarding your own statement😂😂 noone was handed a game until LRG made a objective. Rethink every opinion you’ve ever had lol
@@fartfish1880Damn LRG realllly did mess it up with ADDING AUDIO during his second cycle😂😂😂 You really got something going on up there, or maybe itd be easier to say not much lololol
@@Domedwho he messed up by completely scrapping everything that the prev 4 devs worked on yes -- there wasn't much going on gameplay-wise yet -- and that is why you build up from what other devs have done rather than get rid of everything and start from scratch. it's the whole point of the series
Yeah it was the only one that actually took advantage of the motion capture. Neither the bullet heaven version nor the circus management version of the game made good use of it. If you're going to bother naming the video motion capture edition maybe you should try to use the damn thing.
@@son9012yeah blackthornprod messed it up TWICE first he went from a first person game to a random circus management game, which eventually got turned into a shooter which would've worked if they just moved the camera onto the shooter to make it first person but NO blackthornprod doubbles down like a spoiled brat and makes the circus management game again
For some reason, Blackthorn always ends up doing sort of the same thing in these, topdown unit command games with behaviours and a bit of a "simulatiom" flair
And always drags the game in his own direction instead of building on what is in the game already. Would love to see people stop switching genres all the time unless they are going to flesh it out.
I know, this video bugged me because the first dude did such a great job. There was one other video a while back that the same thing happened. I kind of hate this content because all of the games have blackthornprod graphic style and it's not bad, it just makes them all feel identical. The whole point of this is that it is a mix of everyone's style, not just his.
Bruh I cant believe the host is the one that ruined this game lol to be fair, I did really like the family tree idea he had that also got scrapped into a pig sim thing
@@T1nyRaccoon Why respect someone that forces his own ideas and removes other devs work just so it fits his vision? He is the one that disrespects the other devs in his videos over and over agian. Also respect is earned not just given for free..
Agreed, I really dislike how it ended up being forcibly turned into a business simulator, rts game, even though all the other devs wanted to make it some sort of first-person or shooter game.
I was excited after that first dev's awesome animated intro for a spooky fps. It would have been so smooth from that transition jumping straight into first person, changing to top down was kinda meh
If they really wanted to show off the fancy suits, a first person view would have been the way to go anyway.. all that animation potential down the drain
i mean ur not wrong, but unlike the viewer he just had a cinematic without any context and no clue fo what he was suposed to do, we have a voice over explaining everything, the dev didt have that and no comunication, so i would have love to see the continuation of the first idea but i totaly understand why that have very low chance of actualy hapening, he should have create at least the first seconde of "gameplay" in first person after the cinematic to avoid a complete switch in top down, the second uy probably just go in confort zone since he has no clear direction and no clue of what to do at this point
@@noakeyharding9437 based on the video( not the voice over) the cut scene dropped them into first person as far as i can tell the choice to switch to top down resulted in the removing the first devs content.
"We'll be adding a 'Don't remove' rule to the challenge to make things a little less like tug-of-war" Alright cool, makes sense "I am now going to remove everything the 1st and 4th devs created" Ah, genius!
The problem is that he technically didn't remove anything for the first dev, he just took the game into a different direction as there was no gameplay to begin with. It would be like if the penguin developer transitioned the game into a permanent rhythm game. The rule needs to be "Innovate on the original vision", which you would think would be obvious, and the Noot shooter should be the prime example of what should be allowed when it comes to branching out. A random penguin dancing minigame that still loops back to the core of the original game. But the truth is rules aren't the problem, it's bad developers. A "don't remove" rule can't stop a bad developer from forcing their own vision, like look at the piggie game and how one of the devs placed down non-functional military buildings for the sole purpose of messing with the next dev (which fortunately didn't have much impact since it was near the end), which you now can't remove because of the rule.
@@avez-ch1nphe did remove from the first dev. Literally everything he did was dropped except for the clown idea. He scrapped the whole intro and everything.
Yeah it feels like he lost track of the fact that nobody knows what the other person is thinking and he got offended that his idea that nobody knew about was scrapped.
Especially since he played the clip of an older episode where a dev changed a hand model into a lower poly hand model, as if that's what he was talking about and not his own forced concepts.
I've noticed blackthornprod likes to make these into managment/building games, which really shows how each developer goes in with their own idea of what kind of game they want which is part of what makes these interesting but also part of what kinda kills potential sometimes
nah, most devs go into it knowing the challenge it to build upon what is previously established. you can do that with your own ideas and not change the core
@@tumultuousv I mean more near the begining, I've noticed sometimes in the first few Devs the entire idea behind the game will change for example here it went from horror to managment because that's what blackthornprod wanted to do going into the project.
Seems like it. He needs to learn Iteration. it's a very important skill in game development. It's good to recognize what one has and find the strengths and work with it. It will also help his skill set to get out of this comfort zone, trying and working on new things (like an FPS game), and not just tack things he wants to force at the end. At the end of the day this video is mainly just an advertisement so no loss but it would be nice to see them try something new and not just what they're used to or prefer.
Blackthorn always turn everything into a top down, buy upgrades, tower defense.Its so boring and just gets rid of all originality. First dev had such a good idea and intro. You get sucked into a tv, just to be flying above a circus you have to manage... like what? No remove policy is good (plz dont be super strict with it tho) but stop turning everything into a management game. Not everything needs a "gameplay loop", as black thorn seems too think those two words mean "management game". Series is getting a little stale now.
I do think every game needs a gameplay loop, but the problem was that wasn't even established until the Aussie dev came in and had to fix everything (i.e. start again) by establishing one. Gameplay loop doesn't mean actually loop of a cyclical game that you can do forever, a campaign game like Halo or Zelda have gameplay loops in them (explore, shoot/hit, explore, shoot/hit etc.). But it's definitely something the first dev should try to establish. Making a cinematic as the first contribution seemed like a wasted opportunity (even if it was a kickass cinematic). Then BlackThornProd throwing out the tone of that, changing the gameplay style (from First Person to isometric management game) and still failing to establish a gameplay loop was pretty frustrating. The next dev then needed to pretty much start again, but at least established a game loop (even if it was a generic top-down survival shooter). Frustrating that BTP then scrapped things AGAIN to try to force the boring generic management game again...
Gameplay loop just means to turn a sandbox of unrelated systems and actions into something that has a defined goal for the player to do and rules for using the systems in a specific manner repeatedly. Its the core idea of any game.
That non-removal rule actually can cause more harm than good. On the 7th turn that dev removed hard-to-read number in UI and added a easier-to-read bar instead. I feel like future games can become heavily cluttered if it is strict. And if we go by loose definition then really almost nothing got removed in this video since almost all things that got trashed came back in another form. Thus the rule either causes heavy clutter or leads into same results as this video anyway.
Blackthorn did step back after the first stint of controversy. I think people take this stuff way too seriously and take it out too harshly on all the devs including btp.
blackthorn really has to read the room if they're gonna be chipping in too. most of the time, no matter the implied prompts, BTP just disregards the previous devs and turns it into some sort of management game, it's so disappointing and boring
The first person didn’t give them much to go off of once they were sucked into the television. Like literally how was he supposed to know it was supposed to be a first person horror game? Although I will admit he totally disregarded the previous work on his second time developing.
agreed but it's not just a blackthorn problem; I've noticed a lot of devs just kinda...defaulting to what they're used to making & changing everything towards that, instead of running with what's already there.
"So I totally ignored the first dev's work and started making my own thing. Hey, somebody tries to fix my mess. Here is a disclaimer and a new rule that you can't remove stuff in the future"
To be perfectly honest, I didn't mind the first change this time, mostly because he was kinda right, there wasn't any game to begin with anyway at that point. But then reverting it back just felt... idk.. petty? I mean changing the genre of a game that didn't have a gameplay loop yet is one thing, but then treating it like a tug of war felt a little icky. I wish they at least tried to mix and match both ideas, that would actually be cool to see. Biggest missed opportunity was not going with making a indie horror imo, but that wasn't really anyone's fault. it just kinda comes with no communicating.
Yeah, I didn’t really feel like this was a “classic pass-the-game challenge misunderstanding,” this was blackthornprod ignoring the work of the previous dev (who actually developed gameplay mechanics) and insisting their original idea was what everyone should be working on. There literally CAN’T be a tug-of-war in a pass-the-game challenge; it’s ALWAYS on the current dev to either roll with the project as-is, or nuke it. This was blatantly just blackthornprod ignoring previous devs and nuking the project again.
Tbh, that's expected to happens when a dev is proficient to do specific things. The genre and style has changed many times before, even with one cycle only.
I feel like Lost Relic actually didn't remove anything. He was correct that the game was lacking a game loop at that point and, in response, he took the game in a new direction to create a game loop while still respecting and using all the parts that had come before. It will be interesting to see how the "cannot remove" rule plays out in 2024 because I feel the ability to shift and go in new directions is a huge part of what makes these projects so unique and fun. When you play Telephone, you rarely expect to hear the same sentence you started with.
Bloated buggy incoherent games is what's going to happen. I think it'd be more interesting if devs were allowed the trendiest amount of communication. Honestly, just like 3 words or something. Or 25 characters or whatever. Just enough to communicate one core idea so that features are scrapped because the second dev is on a different wavelength. Imagine if the first dev could have left a note that just said "first person horror" or "alternate reality adventure" or "parallel universe puzzles". That's still really broad, but might have helped people realize they weren't just making a title scene. I think the TV idea would have been pretty cool if you could choose a channel and then get pulled into different games/genres. That might be to big for this style of challenge, but would have given more room for different uses of the mocap suits. It was cool to see what the suits could do, but it was basically utilised the same way for everyone. Record animation for NPCs to loop. Would have been cool to see it used to make player actions more immersive. Like striking a match to light the canons. Making balloon animals that then come to life as mascots or helpers or something. Include a balance mini-game instead of watching AI when the perfect balance loop a tightrope animation
We see a very good example in this video when on 7th turn the dev REMOVES ugly hard-to-read number in UI and replaces it with simpler to understand bar. If the new rule is strict then that wouldn't be allowed. Thus during 2024 many of the games can become hella cluttered hard to read mess. Then again if the rule is loose and you can replace stuff and build on top of it.... people still can force their ideas on the game and pretty much this same video could still happen. I am happy that they are trying to tackle the problem but imo this rule isn't the answer.
@@decentsingersclub I think it's more the opposite. I get the feeling that when btp aren't being Devs in the challenge, the other Devs are likely to mention big changes and they'll get okayed. I think the change to shooter would have been okayed but the change back would not have been, had it been a different dev. While it's no Comms between Devs, having someone to not allow you to intentionally retcon what had been done (which btp did, not the other Dev) is good.
@@nic5423 Re-watch the video my dude btp did a Double Retcon. He basically forced the game to be exactly his vision. Ajack's work? ALL GONE! LostRelics work? ALL GONE! It's only thanks to Codeer that a game even emerged out of that pile of junk. Ajack and LostRelic had the best Theme/Game of all of them, and neither one has their work in the game. It's a real crying shame, to be honest!
Literallyyyy! Like after the disclaimer i thought everything was gonna be GONE but Lost Relic kept the assets, just changed it to a shooter. I liked the clown nose bullets, bc the color pallette was so hard to see and it gave some pops of red to watch.
I honestly dont know if blackthornprod can make anything but topdown resource management tower deense games. Thats all they ever bring to these projects it seems
@@danielglatz1643That was his idea for it since like 2 minutes in the video bud, he didnt plan on making anything else but the ideas he had before making this.
I will say, while lost arc definitely shifted the game in a seemingly random directly I definitely think you had the bigger sin of not at least trying to incorporate his idea. The bigger problem with people removing other's contributions is at least for me more in nature that they're removing the other's ideas rather than work. Recontextualizing, modifying, and refocusing as aspects are all fine. So for example in first cycle what most of you did was just put together assets and some very loose 'gameplay' that didn't give a lot of direction. When lost arc came in and saw this he did his best to give it some direction and re-used most of the ideas presented. I'd say the bigger sin of the chaos is when you scrapped what contributions lost arc made entirely. You absolutely could have made a hybrid of the two games where it was both a shooter and a carnival simulator. You were already working with the idea the clowns might eat the kids, why not have just made it so they kidnapped them instead? Forcing the player to run a carnival on one side to earn money for upgrades and run a shooter on the other with primary focus being freeing kids that go captured. Then the one that wanted to turn it into a horror game could have easily built off that idea at that point, turning the levels into more confined spaces with clowns and possibly centipedes ready to jump out from around corners to catch the player by surprise. I guess that's all to say most of these pass the game challenges have room for all of your ideas, and that I think the 'don't remove' rule should apply to those more so than the individual work. Might necessitate giving each developer longer as the project goes on to account for the fact they need to at the minimum shape their idea and the ideas to work cohesively in the final product, but that also might just result in better final products overall.
yes, I'd rather the devs have more time or two different types of time, one to analyze the project and think of the idea, and the second would be coding time to execute it. either way, hopefully this no removal rule starts to make some changes for the good and inspire creativity
I give up on this series. Every video happens the same "I changed every single thing the previous dev implemented cause I wanted to". This is not an airport, I don't need to announce my departure, but I'm tired of watching every video expecting a change, but for nothing. Good luck for the next devs
I totally agree. There shouldn't be a don't remove rule in this form as lost arc did a good thing. It should be defined in a different maybe not "don't remove" but instead "incorpate all previous work". Because don't remove implies you can't make a major game play direction change and sometimes that's needed, like it was here.
Would you guys be willing to do a "combine the game" challenge? Where 4 people make 4 unique games with no communication, 2 people then combine 2 of those games and then build upon what's there, and then the last person combines those 2 games into 1 large final game? I think it'd be a fun twist on the challenge!
Blackthorn almost always disregards the previous work of the devs and decides to add some contrived game idea that undercuts the previous works. Pretty whack especially since theyre the main channel devs, they should know better,
i know right, starting to question if it's the only type of game they can make while i know they can make other games they always make top down games in these new no communicating videos in the old versions of these videos they didn't always do top down games but now that's all they do and it saddens me
blackthornprod started out by not going with the obviously implied first person game, and then they removed the entirety of Lost Relic's work by simply removing the entire gameplay loop he added. This was insanely direspectful, and honestly immature.
I'm cool with the first cycle. That's the point of no communication. But the BTP's second cycle of scrapping the LRG's game mechanics in the pursuing closemindedly his shitty idea was dissapointing.
I'm kind of sad about the result. The devs did an amazing job, but there was really something missing. Like, all of you wanted something else and watching and playing your different games might have been way more enjoyable and overall interesting, but from what I can judge abouit the result... Well, it unfortunatelly dissapoints a lot. The initial point of motion capture is missing, working with someone elses idea was a theme that was forcefully avoided and basically anything that would make this a "game" was removed over and over...
I really enjoyed the direction the first dev was going in. There was a lot of room for creativity to build off of it but it really felt like it was really watered down in the end. The first dev should def continue the idea he had on his own, I’d def play it.
The first guy had something good going. The forth guy did a great job making the "Game" a "Game" and not a sim. I don't understand why we scrapped the entire first guys plan. He sucked you into a TV from a first person view. You took that and made it into a 3rd person sim? Blackthorn Productions man, you are selling game dev kits. To teach people. You have to make something great, be the best in these videos. You actively hurt your brand when you come in, and do worse then every other dev. Im seriously disappointed. I come in wanting to love every video, actively forcing myself to stay so I can give a like, leave a nice comment, ext. But every video blackthorn joins becomes the same game. Its seriously killing the vibe of the video. Idc how you fix it. But take a step back and look at the reaction to your work. People like the ideas. Hate the implementation.
Fr, and i don’t like the no delete rule either because some things are just placeholders,and the pivots in game direction are the best parts of a lot of videos.
You should begin the challenge with "Design Pillars". Three specific pillars that each developer has to ensure the game sticks to. Most game studios implement these at the beginning of the project to give it direction and to stop feature creep, or worse take the project down the wrong direction. For example, "horror, fps & clowns." The chaos of each developer removing work can be fun to watch, but it's mostly just frustrating to see the good work of the previous dev removed. It's more fun to watch an awesome project being created. The new non-delete rule feels more like a band-aid to the problem rather than an actual fix. Also, @Blackthornprod you should use these videos as a way to broaden your skills, you clearly favour 2D game development, but when somebody starts the project off in FPS and you shoehorn in another top down 2D game it gets really frustrating to watch.
@@Nephenon Not really, they will still be able to take the art style and main mechanics of the game however they like, they just have to stick to keeping it to a specific genre. This will mean we actually get a wider range of games shown on the channel.
Maybe for future projects all of the devs agree on a type of game before hand. Then from there they all blindly work on that game as usual and add their own personal touch. That way everyone understands the direction of the project so we prevent a tug of war between devs. This would lead to a much higher quality game.
@@averagegamingplayer Yeah I was really excited for the game after the first dev and then it just got ruined, had so much promise all for nothing. Wonder what it wouldve turned out to be had a different dev got it instead of blackthorn
That would defeat the point of the challenge. The point isn’t exactly to make a ‘great’ game. It’s to test the abilities of the devs themselves. Full expression of creativity is what each dev needs to bring to the table, so any restrictions, yes, even in genre, would change the dynamic too far towards the ‘make a game together challenge’, rather than ‘passing the game’.
@@Magrijack i do agree with that but there needs to be something that prevents a tug of war and doesn't prevent them from removing anything. a specific path does limit creativity, but stops if from being crabs in a bucket. maybe limit it to a few categories that the devs are good with. perhaps each dev has a number of votes equal to half the devs. each dev submits one category. you pick the genres in the top 50% for when there are 4 devs or less. and the percentage decreases with the amount of devs. so maybe 2-5 genres the devs can take the game in.
It's impressive that in these videos someone has a very good idea, like the first developer, and then they turn the game into something extremely generic
@@42069memes true but he also added something i haven't seen in other games like it. saving the kids and the tents, what you mentioned is typically just waves. also i think more could be done with his idea. while it was a top down. it could have easily been redesigned as a first person. in other words i think it had more potential compared to a management game especially since they are trying to show off the tracking gear. you can make animations for attack moves. but what could you possibly do for for a management game. yeah you could do the juggling and tight rope and other circus stuff but with the time limit and lack of assets that would have to be made for those as well as well the animation outside of tracking. I don't think it was possible. also you can get those cloned games for free on mobile including the original game, and they work just as well.
ughhhh why is every game they make for these literally the same safe top down shooter or tower defense or purhcase upgrades game? like seriously they couldnt possibly come up with any other kind of game... the first dude came in strong basically forcing them to make a story and they immediately came in with the only think incapable of telling a story. i get they had to use the mocap suit but come onnnnnnnn i only watch these to see if they get better but its feeling like a lost cause of unoriginality
Agree & btp are usually the ones causing it to go this way. Not every game needs a "gameplay loop" and not every gameplay loop needs to be action > get cash > upgrade > repeat. How boring.
i fully agree, its basically the same thing and i find these type of games boring as hell. You never see them do any other kind of game, not even a simple thing like a sidescroller or sth.
lol i think it's a bit sad a dev had to make a way to zoom in so you could actually see the mocap, first person was the way that's why the intro (the best part of the game) was fp, making it top down probably wasn't the best idea. sadly the first dev only did the intro and added no gameplay so it was fair game for the next dev. one could say that taking the hints from the previous dev would've been ideal, but there was nothing there gameplay wise so it makes sense
The no remove rule could be a backfire, sometime devs add little features that are bugged and make the game worst and hard to add more things, you'll need exceptions to the rule and will make more complex to know if you can edit than you have time to do it.
it could , but it eliminate the frustration of seeing someone remove all the previous devs hard work , like that one guy who are on this channel remove all the previous devs that trying to make a horror game into a boss fight game
i think the no remove rule isn't literal. Like you're allowed to remove mistakes, but you can't remove a decision another dev made. Like you can't change the genre of game twice in one video
Blackthorn is just always going to go first and start the game off as a top-down tower defense/management game. Honestly, what other people have suggested should be the case: Blackthorn should host these events, not take part in them.
I swear blackthorn only knows how to make one type of game, worst part is they don’t even design it they just force the concept so that the OTHER DEVS have to work hard to make a passable game out of their bs. I really wish BTP opted out of these challenges more often because it’s one thing to mess up something but they always either ruin the trajectory from the start, or they ruin the game at the end. I always get excited for some devs here because they consistently add new cool stuff and make the video unique, but it doesn’t even feel like BTP are even devs in comparison atp 💀
I think the can’t remove rule a bit unnecessary, nothing was going on and that’s why the circus sim got scratched in the first round. he couldn’t do anything with the concept. Also didn’t you guys then remove his idea that’s hypocritical??
The problem won't be fixed by "can't remove" Lost Relic Games cycle one was a really good fix to a directionless gallery of a game. If you can't remove anything, it would be impossible to rework and evolve the game (All good games remove content during development for a reason) I feel like the problem is inflexibility and ego: "I can model 3d hands better than this pixel art style" "my original idea/ ideas i get from my other games I make is better than the other ones" Its probably subtle when you are making it, but seeing the play by play of what each dev did, you cringe whenever someone says "this is cool, but..." instead of actually playing with the idea and developing it. I know you guys can all be better with a liitle focus, rooting for you! TLDR, no remove rule is a bad idea, drop the ego and just try to actually develop ideas instead of adding your own random crap each time
It's definitely not a bad rules. There is a difference between No Remove and Editing/Improving. This rule is needed so people don't do things like scrap an entire intro sequence like what was done in this video. So people don't change the genre twice because they don't like the direction of the game. Hell, the game would have been forced to be a 1st person game in this one IF the rule was in place. It might have been a first person simulation game which would have been FAR more interesting imo.
@@sanguinepub Adding any kind of rule regarding content is a problem already. Its the reason large game studios are getting so slow. Noone wants to step on the other departments toes by changing things, unless the upper management makes a decision. But there is no management here. In a no communication challenge that would end up just like large studios end up in development hell, everyone working on unrelated or redundant details.
This one was really interesting. It annoyed me how one dev basically scrapped everything that was built already, but at the same time... It was difficult to tell where the game was going at that point. I liked the idea of an FPS horror game, and it was in my opinion a mistake to turn it into an "RTS" top-down game. You seem to like these unit-commanding games, but I don't think they are a great fit for quick jams like this. That kind of game needs a lot of established mechanics to make them satisfying, and there really was no time for that. As I said, a very thought-provoking video for me! Good drama, too.
Yeah the unit commanding games are also not fun to watch as a viewer especially when they aren't fully fleshed out and easy to understand. They dev that changed everything imo, did a good job. I only say that cause he still used stuff everyone else made. All the animations and models were all used BUT he changed the direction and game play, which SHOULD be allowed because honestly... it looked like it was going in a bad direction, and a dev needs to do what they need to do to fix it as long as they don't throw away all the past work
Yeah. I really loved the idea of combining the first-person and shooter aspect from the other devs. There are enough "tycoon" games in the world, we don't need another.
what the hell just happened here?!! It was just so random. I really liked the idea of the first dev, but then out of nowhere, bro changed the whole concept!!
When you see Noah come out and say, "Hey, don't be mean, part of this is about the changes. IN the future we will be making new rules to stop this, but don't be mean in the comments" You know that it is going to be BAD.
For real. I was instantly like "oh boy..." But the first changes helped the game feel more like a game imo. I think changing it back after hurt it more, but it came together in the end. That said, unfortunately, this game is very similar to many games that come out of this challenge.
Wow. Poor Ajackster. His intro was great, then he and his work was totally ignored with full premeditation, there is no place to blame it on the no communication part. Then Lost Relic Games made a game out of whatever it was at this point. And then the part of going back to what Blackthornprod wants... unbearable. Blackthornprod should not take part in anything that requires teamwork
The fourth dev acrually did a good job as well - he was right, there was no game when it was passed to him and no clear or nice way to turn it into a game. Im fact, he still utilized most of what was there in making his shooter. BTP then turns around and scrapped an entire gameplay premise to just go back and undo two devs worth of work.
Glad you guys listened about the "no removing" rule. Obviously it'll need to be loosey goosey but that's the entire point of these videos, so I'm hyped! Hopefully it'll inspire the developers to think about how their choices will affect the next dev a lot more.
Reading the comments on these videos makes me feel better about being upset at what blackthorn does. It’s a constant pattern in all of these videos, and seen as the comments are almost always like this, criticizing him and basically begging for him to be a cooperative team player instead of a controlling host, he obviously sees it as simply engagement and ignores what everyone says. Since he is unwilling to change, I really hope to see another game developer/TH-camr (possibly someone who participates in these blackthorn game jams) start making their own videos with the same concept, but in a way that’s more satisfying for the viewers and lets us be interested in the games being made. I’m tired of seeing the same things happen over and over again. The only times I’ve felt okay with these is when blackthorn isn’t on the project.
I personally find that although Blackthornprod knows what he's doing with game dev, the project feels like it's been ruined if he's got his hands on it too early. i think he should be the last person who gets his hands on it so he can spend some more time reviewing what has been made then adding a twist. I just dont like watching colony management every video.
Btp you might want to take a back seat on a few of these.. running out of your own feet to shoot now and it's such a shame because the concept is amazing and the editing is always on point x
I just remember when btp made devlogs more and whatnot. They clearly want to make things based off what they think (I mean they were the ones who were very stubborn on their idea in this pass the game challenge) but it just seems they want to keep milking this goat. Idk but just having these challenges feels extremely stale and I miss seeing more ingenuity from btp
This is a great series, I think you have to understand that once you have the golden goose. You let it lay its egg. They want to do game dev n youtube as a job, But one of those popped off first, so they pivoted into doing it more, until they grow enough that they can do both.
@@Salmacream I mean yeah it’s a good series but I struggle to see why they couldn’t even do some other things on top of it adding variety. At first it was really cool but it just feels jaded. I understand their strategy and it’s smart but I just wish for more variety I suppose
@@HoodedOliveI think that had more to do with the fact that a lot of these games end up being the same concept. Maybe they should pick a genre before not communicating so there's more chances for variety without someone switching the genre.
@@MillennialHippiethat's pretty much how i feel, i loved these videos at first, but they all end up just ending up being some sort of management or a kind of shooter game...
@@MillennialHippie That could be it. I think it could be just the lack of variety of types of videos. If they want to stick with challenges that’s fine but what if they tried to branch out more? Like that engine battle was pretty cool. Trying some new ideas and spins on gamedev challenges could be fun and innovative if they want to stay within this niche of gamedev challenges. The btp team have shown themselves to be very creative with things such as games so I’m sure they could come up with some new ideas for video types.
First dev had a good idea on creating a fps horror game, then this guy built some terrible circus tycoon, next guy changed it into a classic top down shooter that wasn’t bad, then this dude changed it back to his terrible circus, and this guy is a developer.
Its not the first time I strongly disagree with the type of direction or expectations that Blackthorn introduce in the games of this type of challenges... The first dev came with an original and amassing idea then.. a circus tycoon? Totally disconnected. The forth dev do a totally cohesive turn and then... back to tycoon-esque game. And this is a trend in various of their videos, almost every single one of this challenges
Kind of sad it ended up as a top-down management game instead of the original fps horror game but I still loved the video, good job to everyone involved!
Holy crap. The first dev actually made an interesting intro to a game I would actually play! And of course bthorn screws it up making it ANOTHER place your buildings down and manage it type of game. Thankfully the 4th dev actually scrapped it, which I’m unusually thankful for. His shooter game, although not original, looked fun! The AGAIN bthorn throws it all out and makes it a manage your carnival game. READ THE ROOM my guy. Absolutely disappointing. Can’t wait to see the no change rule and I’m interested to see if it stays the whole year or not.
I really hope you actually read the comments and notice a lot of fans are dissatisfied and disappointed with you being unable to work alongside creators and following their path and overall just changing the games perspective to whatever you dream to be “the best.”
I love these videos, but I feel like it’s gotten to a once you’ve seen one you’ve seen all anytime blackthorne is involved. It just turns into a management sim or a top down over and over. Could be doing it just to get interactions to push the algorithm, in which case clearly it’s working, but it overall just makes these less of a must watch and more of an oh a new video
you guys should host one thats like charades so the devs can "communicate" by uploading a 10 second video of them doing like some weird pose or something and that is supposed to encapsulate their ideas on the game, and the other devs can see it and try to base it off that, like gartic phone or something.
I think that the "no deleting rule" is good but maybe have some episodes where devs can still delete stuff because I really liked where lostrelicgames was taking it personally.
To be honest, I hated where both LostRelic and Blackthorn were taking it. These games as of late have seemed like they are always management games or shooters. There are exceptions, but I'm tired of all these games feeling like mobile games.
@@Jargoed It doesn't help when a developer changes the game and another changes it back right after... also removing the initial person's work completely. Two out of 8 time slots to develop the game were removed. Also- they've done games that didn't feel like a mobile game in the past. Having a fully complete game isn't a requirement. Even if they made a demo for a larger game, that would be more interesting.
@@sanguinepub Yes you are definitely right! when you put it like that I understand a lot more. I was thinking more from a different perspective that if the developers are unable to redo work then it can limit creativity but I suppose if it is a bad result then it is a bad result. At the end of the day it is a challenge and challenges are made to be failed and learned from :)
@@Jargoed Exactly. It's honestly refreshing to have a conversation with someone instead of seeing negativity and arguments. To make points and to listen one another is always great. :D I was actually talking to the person I was watching the video with. I told them how I didn't like what Blackthorn did because there was a basis for the first person already in place. Not only from the intro sequence being in first person, changing the channels, but there was a brief scene where the player wakes up in first person and a level ready to be made. I mentioned that I loved the concept of the wacky commercials and building off the hypnosis would be cool. To me, it does scream you need something weird, first person, and to do with the antagonist that was modeled. I personally may not have gone with the circus theme, but let's say I did. A fun idea I can think of on the spot is a first person horror game where the circusmaster is making the player have fun. You are forced to do circus themed events like shoot yourself from a canon, trapese act, all the while listening to the circusmaster. If you listen to him, you slowly lose yourself being fully controlled by him (bad ending). Nothing bad happens if you listen to him. But if you disobey him, then horror events happen and the game becomes difficult. This could be story or maybe a game where you have to blend in with the crowd in order not to get caught. There are a lot of ways you could go about this. Even getting a demo of that, I feel, would make a very interesting scenario to build on. It's likely impossible to have that vision passed on to the next dev but doing as much as you can and to try and push it in that direction should be the fun of it. If it doesn't go that way, they have to build off your work and go in the direction they think you are taking it. Then in the end, what is made is made. Be it a demo or a full game. It's about the fun and that is what I want to see. Not this game where everyone is trying to change the game into their vision.
I don't know if this has been suggested before but the game should have a set theme and genre before anything starts. It keeps the spirit of a game jam still where there is still room for interpretation amongst the devs. The no removal rule seems like it's going to backfire big time as others have pointed out. In this game for example the first dev had something really cool going and made amazing use of the motion capture and clearly had a genre and theme in mind. BlackThorn then just went and did their own thing afterwards. Sure nothing was removed but it went so off target from where it started. The first dev shouldn't have all the say either that's not what I'm saying but a theme and a genre at the outset imposes some limitations and let's the devs go from there and work creatively within the limitations as well as make informed decisions when building on previous work. This is a great but frustrating series sometimes. It's at it's best when it feels like great improv the holy rule of yes and. Sometimes what happens here is yes but instead or yes but no. Also: I do like this structure of each dev getting to have another round after it's been passed through. It gives everyone a chance to maybe leave their mark still in the game instead of completely being erased.
Including my own comment, you're the third person saying this (the other person had 10 likes, so more agree, too). A lot of people in the comments are getting bored of the game turning into the same concept, and this is the easiest way to fix that without having the no- communication thing changed.
i agree with your last statement but at the same time it felt too chaotic. what i mean is that the order that the devs went it seemed random. shouldn't it have lopped back to the first or start at the end and then move in the opposite direction? here is a visual of what i mean "1 2 3 4_1 2 3 4" or "1 2 3 4_4 3 2 1" instead it went "1 2 3 4_2 3 1 4" i mean i get scheduling might be a problem but i would have preferred to have waited longer for the video if it was one of the first two orders. especially since 2 did the same thing each time it was their turn. change the entire game to what they want it to be.
Please DONT ADD the no REMOVE RULE!!! Not only would it cripple devs in their freedom, it would in many cases make the game worse. Sometimes things have to be removed to make the game better, remember the helicopter that got removed and replaced by a flying super hero? Yeah that game was awesome. So please just keep it as it is, even if it sometimes goes a bit wrong, thats part of the fun.
Game looked like it was going to be fun until you added whatever you did and then it looked better when someone else changed it again you decided to do the same thing and it was still a bad idea by you imo. Ik that they don’t communicate but it woukdve been much better game if it was a creepy horror game
Like, the first person horror would have shown off the suits they were using but that second dev decided “NOPE, lets use this opportunity to do a management game that is more unappealing design than acting and atmosphere. That’s the best use of the tools we wanna display for sure” 😂
I'd love to see a more host-like role for Blackthorn in the future, so the games created are a bit less of that Blackthorn style. Don't get me wrong, I love the Blackthorn games and they're often always fun and interesting, but they're still that: *Blackthorn* games. I think the point of *different* devs collaborating is to create something completely new, not to replicate an older formula. Anyway, sadly I agree with many of the less positive comments on this video. I think deleting (Or rather, editing) is an important part of the game dev process, if handled graciously like Lost Relic Games did in his first round. The switch from the Fps back to the original Blackthorn Idea I thought was perceived as petty, when it could've been taken as feedback to improve the game. Overall as a viewer and for the channel's future in mind, more patience and compatibility with the other dev's ideas is what makes these videos entertaining, and the creative and new approaches, not just tried-and-true Blackthorn approaches, is what earned my subscription in the first place. Please keep this sense of creativity alive.
honestly if i was in the same situation i wouldve completely changed it aswell because it was hard to figure out how the game worked and if there was an end goal or not
I really like the revamp the 4th dev made. I think sometimes the removals are necessary! Otherwise you’re just digging a deeper hole when you could use the time of these talented devs to make something spectacular.
Yeah I dont think forcing devs to use everything is the solution. Just don't try to force your own idea into the game if it does not fit with what's already there
I'm going to be very honest here and I'm sorry if it hurts any of the devs feelings. These started out super fun and interesting-seeing multiple creative minds make something was a video I looked foward to.. but they've since become rather bland and repetitive, it's always some kind of world builder game or shooter, and this video makes it evident that the video format is really falling apart. There could of been something truly interesting with what that first dev created, but it immediately was muddled down in a generic soulless click, drag and drop. Why is that? I respect that you finally added a "no remove" feature but how about adding some sort of theme? Or restrictions, this way we don't just get re-hashed versions of the same game concept over and over. Much love to everyone involved. No hate, I admire what you do and I hope it can continue
Actually, I misunderstood this too. The no remove rule is for the benefit of blackthornpod. The guy that messed up the 3D shooter game, the literal host. His carnival idea got scrapped and it turned into a top down shooter. He wanted his carnival sim back. When in reality, he removed the 3D FPS part of the game first..
I really appreciate Lost Relic games and how they changed it. At first I wasn't sure how I felt about him scrapping everything before and changing it, but when I saw how he changed it I actually thought it worked. He was being very respectful about it, reusing the assets in a different way rather than just scrap them, and giving it an actual gameplay loop, because he was right, it was boring with it not going anywhere yet. And you can very much tell that Noa got the game back and went 'oh no fires are gonna start in the comments' and decided to backtrack to try and prevent that from happening. Because we have gotten upset by those changes before! The thing with this one is that it was done in a respectful way so it was actually ok, particularly because it didn't have much meat yet so a change like that wasn't groundbreaking. So this time him changing it was actually a bit more upsetting because it nullified all the progress Lost Relic had made on it. That's our main problem with that sorta stuff. Nullifying progress. Makes it so the game doesn't end up finished sometimes and it's a bit frustrating to see people constantly try to take control by changing core things so frequently. But I'm ok with both of them in this video, because they had very good reasons for why they made those changes, even if it is still a bit of an annoyance, it's an ok one that you can understand and grow to like because it's not too drastic of a change. You guys are doing well with this pass the game series. I think the no removing rule will help people become more creative with what they're given once it's implemented, and am looking forward to it. Sorry for all the times we've gotten worked up in the comments, we just wanna see you guys make something cool because we know you can and it's just a bit frustrating when it doesn't turn out to be as good as it could've because of backtracking. You guys are great for getting all these people together and getting all this sorta stuff to work though. Keep up the great work. ^^
I feel like the amusement park manager was a bit too different from what the intro would imply and I would have preferred a fph (First person Horror) experience and I also think that the top down shooter was good as well
Happy new year guys!
Our course is currently at HALF THE PRICE for a limited amount of time, in the hopes that this will motivate you to take the leap and become a game dev in 2024: www.gamedevrocket.com/
First 🎉
You read the comments of the last one people did not like wishbone😊
Stop participating in the challenge yall ruin the game flow and the process… :( just host it.
@@peyz21 totally agreed
This type of challenge are an awesome idea, you have a great format of content
You have a platform to makes indie games devs shine. You can give them a medium to be broadcasted to a much larger audience
Stop ruined it. Just host.
You dont need to showcase yourself, just keep bringin more devs to this format and showcase them. By just doing that and offer this platform, you could shine too, in a better way
Really, this is a diamond in brute, but I dont see you actually realized or could handle the type of direction that is needed for take this to its full potential
This almost felt like a mobile game ad. Like, the first dev made an interesting premise that kinda hooks you, and you're like heck yeah let's see where this goes aaaaand it's a top down management mobile game.
lmao
i actually feel like the management game is unique, the clowns and stuff is pretty cool, it's kinda weird how in this video it's the opposite reaction of the usual "wow they had such a good premise and then it turned into a shooter game"
nevermind i somehow forgot the entire first half of the video and thought the first dev was lost relic 😭
@@TactfulWaggle Yeah, it was a nice change from the usual "lets make it a shooter". That being said, the original change _to_ a shooter I feel was necessary to push the other devs to actually put some substance into the game, seems up until that point it really just was a random hodge-podge of animations thrown into a blank space for nothing. I think the problem was everyone wanted to have a go at the MOCAP tech, which was the point of the video after all, but that didn't leave them much time to refine their idea into something that could benefit from the application of the MOCAP. Really it ended up not being relevant to how the game played at all; With the exception of the fun intro, the animations really could have been swapped for anything or even removed altogether and the game would have played and pretty much still looked the same.
When it came to that gameplay though, maybe combining the management sim with the shooter would have been better than removing the one aspect completely. Could have made it a sort of "build your fairground, then fight your way out of it" kind of concept. Change that combat concept into a melee brawler or something rather than generic shooter, and you'd have had something that could have taken advantage of the MOCAP better too.
@@KotCR i agree with literally everything you just said
The initial developer really nailed it! I love the funny voice acting and the wakeup animation post getting sucked into the TV. Would love to see the game continued again from that point.
Yeah, maybe they can try again on developing a game with a different set of devs with fp in mind. Like a REDO video to give the first dev’ labor some justice!
@@widdershinnzi think besides the file and no communication, the first dev should be able to send the genre along. For example: horror
Hmm, I disagree tbh. The first Dev made a really cool intro cutscene to a game, but he didn't make a game in any sense. I think for these challenges you NEED to establish a game loop first, and then worry about aesthetics a bit later.
The first Dev, if they wanted to make a creepy horror game, should have made some creepy gameplay first. E.g. Walking through an environment with a flashlight that stops working occasionally, or something like that. Then, on their second development cycle they could have made the start to the game that they invisioned (because that start could be the intro to literally any game, even though the tone hints at something creepy it doesn't establish a genre). As it was they just made a cool cutscene, but a cutscene isn't a game.
I did find it odd that Noa didn't make a FPS from that point though... Like, very bizarre move deciding to make it an isometric RTS style game when the start of the game is an FPS.
@@moocowp4970 number 1 participant in yapfest
@@moocowp4970
Yeah like FPS clown game.
I was kind of expecting that
Ok, honestly the game got ruined when it become a scary circus building game.
Bruh thornprod did not ignore the other guys ideas once but TWICE.
The first guy actually did something interesting, but no, noah obviously had to make his simulator managing game like he always does.
I'm never taking a lessons from him. Especially since it seems like he is capable of making only one kind of game and disregarding everyone else's hard work lol.
Tbf, the first time, there wasn't a game, so i think he gets the pass there
The second time, i think both BTP and LRG had dropped the ball -- they'd both just completely scrapped what was already there instead of building on it
@@fartfish1880Hahahahaha you are goofy. Completey disregarding your own statement😂😂 noone was handed a game until LRG made a objective. Rethink every opinion you’ve ever had lol
@@fartfish1880Damn LRG realllly did mess it up with ADDING AUDIO during his second cycle😂😂😂 You really got something going on up there, or maybe itd be easier to say not much lololol
@@Domedwho he messed up by completely scrapping everything that the prev 4 devs worked on
yes -- there wasn't much going on gameplay-wise yet -- and that is why you build up from what other devs have done rather than get rid of everything and start from scratch. it's the whole point of the series
i think the first devs plan for a first person horror game would have been best, didn't really care for random clown game
Yeah it was the only one that actually took advantage of the motion capture. Neither the bullet heaven version nor the circus management version of the game made good use of it. If you're going to bother naming the video motion capture edition maybe you should try to use the damn thing.
im kind of sad tje intro thing just got scrapped too
exactly
tbh blackthornprod (idk his real name) kinda idk made the game not that interesting, even lost relic tried to fix it but he just jumbled it up again.
@@son9012yeah blackthornprod messed it up TWICE first he went from a first person game to a random circus management game, which eventually got turned into a shooter which would've worked if they just moved the camera onto the shooter to make it first person but NO blackthornprod doubbles down like a spoiled brat and makes the circus management game again
Love how blackthorne saw that his idea got changed and instead of going with it just reset it to what he wanted anyway
it's pretty cringe and the game turned into the most boring crap ever
For some reason, Blackthorn always ends up doing sort of the same thing in these, topdown unit command games with behaviours and a bit of a "simulatiom" flair
And always drags the game in his own direction instead of building on what is in the game already. Would love to see people stop switching genres all the time unless they are going to flesh it out.
The ones without their input always end up betyer
@@XrayTheMyth23 Yeah there needs to be rules to prevent players from ignoring previous work to make an entirely new game... and deleting ideas too.
I know, this video bugged me because the first dude did such a great job. There was one other video a while back that the same thing happened. I kind of hate this content because all of the games have blackthornprod graphic style and it's not bad, it just makes them all feel identical. The whole point of this is that it is a mix of everyone's style, not just his.
I’ve noticed that to
the circus management idea was probably the worst decision I have ever seen, you literally take a great hook and turn it into that?!
I love how he only adds the no remove rule once his idea gets trashed
Bruh I cant believe the host is the one that ruined this game lol to be fair, I did really like the family tree idea he had that also got scrapped into a pig sim thing
The simulators are getting annoying
@@T1nyRaccoon Why respect someone that forces his own ideas and removes other devs work just so it fits his vision? He is the one that disrespects the other devs in his videos over and over agian. Also respect is earned not just given for free..
@@T1nyRaccoon 200 games in five years just makes it sound like those games are all going to be very shallow
I think he may added the no remove rule because he was the one who thrashed the other idea.
the first dev plan was cool fps horror would have been good
Agreed, I really dislike how it ended up being forcibly turned into a business simulator, rts game, even though all the other devs wanted to make it some sort of first-person or shooter game.
unironiclly the ONE time a dev "removed" a big aspect of the game in progress and actually improved it
@@ira-jay nah uh
I was excited after that first dev's awesome animated intro for a spooky fps. It would have been so smooth from that transition jumping straight into first person, changing to top down was kinda meh
If they really wanted to show off the fancy suits, a first person view would have been the way to go anyway.. all that animation potential down the drain
first dev had such a cool idea and execution. that's why it's so disappointing
i mean ur not wrong, but unlike the viewer he just had a cinematic without any context and no clue fo what he was suposed to do, we have a voice over explaining everything, the dev didt have that and no comunication, so i would have love to see the continuation of the first idea but i totaly understand why that have very low chance of actualy hapening, he should have create at least the first seconde of "gameplay" in first person after the cinematic to avoid a complete switch in top down, the second uy probably just go in confort zone since he has no clear direction and no clue of what to do at this point
@@noakeyharding9437 based on the video( not the voice over) the cut scene dropped them into first person as far as i can tell the choice to switch to top down resulted in the removing the first devs content.
"We'll be adding a 'Don't remove' rule to the challenge to make things a little less like tug-of-war"
Alright cool, makes sense
"I am now going to remove everything the 1st and 4th devs created"
Ah, genius!
rule is for next videos and its obvious this video is the reason to do it lol
The problem is that he technically didn't remove anything for the first dev, he just took the game into a different direction as there was no gameplay to begin with. It would be like if the penguin developer transitioned the game into a permanent rhythm game.
The rule needs to be "Innovate on the original vision", which you would think would be obvious, and the Noot shooter should be the prime example of what should be allowed when it comes to branching out. A random penguin dancing minigame that still loops back to the core of the original game.
But the truth is rules aren't the problem, it's bad developers. A "don't remove" rule can't stop a bad developer from forcing their own vision, like look at the piggie game and how one of the devs placed down non-functional military buildings for the sole purpose of messing with the next dev (which fortunately didn't have much impact since it was near the end), which you now can't remove because of the rule.
@@avez-ch1nphe did remove from the first dev. Literally everything he did was dropped except for the clown idea. He scrapped the whole intro and everything.
@@alextheonewarrior 3:14 He never said he scraped the intro, the whole game happens after the intro
@@avez-ch1np you're right, blackthorn is a creatively bankrupt dev
Seeing blackthornprod add a little disclaimer about the 4th dev as if they're the one that ruined the game is beyond cringe, have some self awareness
Right! I don't mind a disclaimer, but put it up front so it's being applied to all devs. Don't single a person out.
Yeah it feels like he lost track of the fact that nobody knows what the other person is thinking and he got offended that his idea that nobody knew about was scrapped.
It's funny you say that because it was them (dev 2) who really shifted things in the wrong direction
Especially since he played the clip of an older episode where a dev changed a hand model into a lower poly hand model, as if that's what he was talking about and not his own forced concepts.
agree. I was cringing so hard lol
I've noticed blackthornprod likes to make these into managment/building games, which really shows how each developer goes in with their own idea of what kind of game they want which is part of what makes these interesting but also part of what kinda kills potential sometimes
nah, most devs go into it knowing the challenge it to build upon what is previously established. you can do that with your own ideas and not change the core
@@tumultuousv I mean more near the begining, I've noticed sometimes in the first few Devs the entire idea behind the game will change for example here it went from horror to managment because that's what blackthornprod wanted to do going into the project.
Seems like it. He needs to learn Iteration. it's a very important skill in game development. It's good to recognize what one has and find the strengths and work with it. It will also help his skill set to get out of this comfort zone, trying and working on new things (like an FPS game), and not just tack things he wants to force at the end. At the end of the day this video is mainly just an advertisement so no loss but it would be nice to see them try something new and not just what they're used to or prefer.
@@tumultuousv when blackthornprod jumps in and changes the direction, that's what ruins it
@@otallono for real. Dude has no range in game development apparently lol.
Blackthorn always turn everything into a top down, buy upgrades, tower defense.Its so boring and just gets rid of all originality. First dev had such a good idea and intro. You get sucked into a tv, just to be flying above a circus you have to manage... like what? No remove policy is good (plz dont be super strict with it tho) but stop turning everything into a management game. Not everything needs a "gameplay loop", as black thorn seems too think those two words mean "management game". Series is getting a little stale now.
Yeah this series is starting to become boring because the games keep turning out mostly the same
I do think every game needs a gameplay loop, but the problem was that wasn't even established until the Aussie dev came in and had to fix everything (i.e. start again) by establishing one. Gameplay loop doesn't mean actually loop of a cyclical game that you can do forever, a campaign game like Halo or Zelda have gameplay loops in them (explore, shoot/hit, explore, shoot/hit etc.). But it's definitely something the first dev should try to establish. Making a cinematic as the first contribution seemed like a wasted opportunity (even if it was a kickass cinematic). Then BlackThornProd throwing out the tone of that, changing the gameplay style (from First Person to isometric management game) and still failing to establish a gameplay loop was pretty frustrating. The next dev then needed to pretty much start again, but at least established a game loop (even if it was a generic top-down survival shooter). Frustrating that BTP then scrapped things AGAIN to try to force the boring generic management game again...
Gameplay loop just means to turn a sandbox of unrelated systems and actions into something that has a defined goal for the player to do and rules for using the systems in a specific manner repeatedly. Its the core idea of any game.
That non-removal rule actually can cause more harm than good. On the 7th turn that dev removed hard-to-read number in UI and added a easier-to-read bar instead. I feel like future games can become heavily cluttered if it is strict. And if we go by loose definition then really almost nothing got removed in this video since almost all things that got trashed came back in another form. Thus the rule either causes heavy clutter or leads into same results as this video anyway.
Tbf in one of them he had a cool idea and others had turned it into a stupid top down game it was the family tree one
Once again, Blackthorn totally ignores what was sent to them and does their own thing. Once again, they ruined it.
I was so mad dude
Yea this game looked pretty bad bc of that lol
he always does that, he’s literally the worst part of this series
@@hayothegunosaurus can you give me the title of a video where he does that. For fun
And they added a new rule :(
If black thorn just hosted these instead of doing them these would be a lot more fluid and better
Like he completely ignored the person ahead of him
YEP, like narration is better for him til he can “yes, and” instead of “no, but”
Blackthorn did step back after the first stint of controversy. I think people take this stuff way too seriously and take it out too harshly on all the devs including btp.
He actually sucks. lol
@@Loki- Nah. He always completely ignores what's already in the game and replaces it with his own, generic "vision" of a completely different game.
blackthorn really has to read the room if they're gonna be chipping in too. most of the time, no matter the implied prompts, BTP just disregards the previous devs and turns it into some sort of management game, it's so disappointing and boring
it really is, also just sad to see, because it could've been so much better
real
Bro really tried to do the management game twice
The first person didn’t give them much to go off of once they were sucked into the television. Like literally how was he supposed to know it was supposed to be a first person horror game? Although I will admit he totally disregarded the previous work on his second time developing.
agreed but it's not just a blackthorn problem; I've noticed a lot of devs just kinda...defaulting to what they're used to making & changing everything towards that, instead of running with what's already there.
"So I totally ignored the first dev's work and started making my own thing.
Hey, somebody tries to fix my mess. Here is a disclaimer and a new rule that you can't remove stuff in the future"
To be perfectly honest, I didn't mind the first change this time, mostly because he was kinda right, there wasn't any game to begin with anyway at that point.
But then reverting it back just felt... idk.. petty? I mean changing the genre of a game that didn't have a gameplay loop yet is one thing, but then treating it like a tug of war felt a little icky. I wish they at least tried to mix and match both ideas, that would actually be cool to see.
Biggest missed opportunity was not going with making a indie horror imo, but that wasn't really anyone's fault. it just kinda comes with no communicating.
true but with how the intro was done it would make sense to do something first person. but instead the intro was completely removed
As @@sparky-xz1nb said and It was pretty clear what the first dev had in mind. It was intentionally ignored
there's never a game to begin with after the first developer, why do you think it gets passed to several others
Yeah, I didn’t really feel like this was a “classic pass-the-game challenge misunderstanding,” this was blackthornprod ignoring the work of the previous dev (who actually developed gameplay mechanics) and insisting their original idea was what everyone should be working on. There literally CAN’T be a tug-of-war in a pass-the-game challenge; it’s ALWAYS on the current dev to either roll with the project as-is, or nuke it. This was blatantly just blackthornprod ignoring previous devs and nuking the project again.
Tbh, that's expected to happens when a dev is proficient to do specific things. The genre and style has changed many times before, even with one cycle only.
I love that everyone unanimously agreed that blackthornprod shouldn’t have done what he did
I feel like Lost Relic actually didn't remove anything. He was correct that the game was lacking a game loop at that point and, in response, he took the game in a new direction to create a game loop while still respecting and using all the parts that had come before. It will be interesting to see how the "cannot remove" rule plays out in 2024 because I feel the ability to shift and go in new directions is a huge part of what makes these projects so unique and fun. When you play Telephone, you rarely expect to hear the same sentence you started with.
Bloated buggy incoherent games is what's going to happen. I think it'd be more interesting if devs were allowed the trendiest amount of communication. Honestly, just like 3 words or something. Or 25 characters or whatever. Just enough to communicate one core idea so that features are scrapped because the second dev is on a different wavelength.
Imagine if the first dev could have left a note that just said "first person horror" or "alternate reality adventure" or "parallel universe puzzles". That's still really broad, but might have helped people realize they weren't just making a title scene.
I think the TV idea would have been pretty cool if you could choose a channel and then get pulled into different games/genres. That might be to big for this style of challenge, but would have given more room for different uses of the mocap suits. It was cool to see what the suits could do, but it was basically utilised the same way for everyone. Record animation for NPCs to loop.
Would have been cool to see it used to make player actions more immersive. Like striking a match to light the canons. Making balloon animals that then come to life as mascots or helpers or something. Include a balance mini-game instead of watching AI when the perfect balance loop a tightrope animation
We see a very good example in this video when on 7th turn the dev REMOVES ugly hard-to-read number in UI and replaces it with simpler to understand bar. If the new rule is strict then that wouldn't be allowed. Thus during 2024 many of the games can become hella cluttered hard to read mess. Then again if the rule is loose and you can replace stuff and build on top of it.... people still can force their ideas on the game and pretty much this same video could still happen. I am happy that they are trying to tackle the problem but imo this rule isn't the answer.
"We backtracked A LITTLE and REIMPLEMENTED OUR DREAM." bruh had a established game loop already
I think this series would just be better for if blackthornprod had no input 😂
fr the videos are always better when they dont interfere
@@decentsingersclub I think it's more the opposite. I get the feeling that when btp aren't being Devs in the challenge, the other Devs are likely to mention big changes and they'll get okayed.
I think the change to shooter would have been okayed but the change back would not have been, had it been a different dev.
While it's no Comms between Devs, having someone to not allow you to intentionally retcon what had been done (which btp did, not the other Dev) is good.
@@nic5423 Re-watch the video my dude btp did a Double Retcon. He basically forced the game to be exactly his vision.
Ajack's work? ALL GONE!
LostRelics work? ALL GONE!
It's only thanks to Codeer that a game even emerged out of that pile of junk. Ajack and LostRelic had the best Theme/Game of all of them, and neither one has their work in the game.
It's a real crying shame, to be honest!
Sad but true
I hope they read the comments.
this guy is the definition of “my house, my rules”
@@GWENprd and only recently is it being implemented. Wasn't he originally against it?
The game in the middle before they scrapped it was cool. 😢😢😢
The way it was edited to make it look like LostRelic was the person changing the idea...
Yeah he wasn’t the one who ruined the promising game by making another farming simulator
Literallyyyy! Like after the disclaimer i thought everything was gonna be GONE but Lost Relic kept the assets, just changed it to a shooter. I liked the clown nose bullets, bc the color pallette was so hard to see and it gave some pops of red to watch.
I honestly dont know if blackthornprod can make anything but topdown resource management tower deense games. Thats all they ever bring to these projects it seems
He did make a centipede boss fight to be fair…
Still top down
Still top down
@@danielglatz1643That was his idea for it since like 2 minutes in the video bud, he didnt plan on making anything else but the ideas he had before making this.
You should title the video: 4 devs make Blackthornprod's game without communicating!
Exactly!!
This :')
I will say, while lost arc definitely shifted the game in a seemingly random directly I definitely think you had the bigger sin of not at least trying to incorporate his idea. The bigger problem with people removing other's contributions is at least for me more in nature that they're removing the other's ideas rather than work. Recontextualizing, modifying, and refocusing as aspects are all fine. So for example in first cycle what most of you did was just put together assets and some very loose 'gameplay' that didn't give a lot of direction. When lost arc came in and saw this he did his best to give it some direction and re-used most of the ideas presented.
I'd say the bigger sin of the chaos is when you scrapped what contributions lost arc made entirely. You absolutely could have made a hybrid of the two games where it was both a shooter and a carnival simulator. You were already working with the idea the clowns might eat the kids, why not have just made it so they kidnapped them instead? Forcing the player to run a carnival on one side to earn money for upgrades and run a shooter on the other with primary focus being freeing kids that go captured. Then the one that wanted to turn it into a horror game could have easily built off that idea at that point, turning the levels into more confined spaces with clowns and possibly centipedes ready to jump out from around corners to catch the player by surprise.
I guess that's all to say most of these pass the game challenges have room for all of your ideas, and that I think the 'don't remove' rule should apply to those more so than the individual work. Might necessitate giving each developer longer as the project goes on to account for the fact they need to at the minimum shape their idea and the ideas to work cohesively in the final product, but that also might just result in better final products overall.
yes, I'd rather the devs have more time or two different types of time, one to analyze the project and think of the idea, and the second would be coding time to execute it. either way, hopefully this no removal rule starts to make some changes for the good and inspire creativity
Honestly arc makes a game based off his own idea in this video I would buy the game
I give up on this series. Every video happens the same "I changed every single thing the previous dev implemented cause I wanted to". This is not an airport, I don't need to announce my departure, but I'm tired of watching every video expecting a change, but for nothing.
Good luck for the next devs
I totally agree. There shouldn't be a don't remove rule in this form as lost arc did a good thing. It should be defined in a different maybe not "don't remove" but instead "incorpate all previous work". Because don't remove implies you can't make a major game play direction change and sometimes that's needed, like it was here.
@@liriolira1772 its a shame because at the start it was amazing.
Would you guys be willing to do a "combine the game" challenge? Where 4 people make 4 unique games with no communication, 2 people then combine 2 of those games and then build upon what's there, and then the last person combines those 2 games into 1 large final game? I think it'd be a fun twist on the challenge!
oh yeah that's fun!
The different lines of code would probably create a debugging nightmare for the combiners.
Hey this would be so fun!
cool idea!
Yeah@@Blackthornprod
Blackthorn almost always disregards the previous work of the devs and decides to add some contrived game idea that undercuts the previous works. Pretty whack especially since theyre the main channel devs, they should know better,
First dev: *makes a good intro for a horror game*
Second Dev: clearly it is a business sim
Low-key bummed that this turned into just another top down game, the horror game would have been such a cool twist
i know right, starting to question if it's the only type of game they can make while i know they can make other games they always make top down games in these new no communicating videos in the old versions of these videos they didn't always do top down games but now that's all they do and it saddens me
blackthornprod started out by not going with the obviously implied first person game, and then they removed the entirety of Lost Relic's work by simply removing the entire gameplay loop he added. This was insanely direspectful, and honestly immature.
Yeah this is the worst case I've seen yet, he just wanted to make his own game rather than collaborate with others.
They Kinda ruined the game when they removed the Horror vibes. The starting intro looked so good! What would make you want to delete it?!?!
Jealousy
I like how the first dev's idea of getting a player sucked into the TV by a clown to just clown and big head kids doing weird dance.
I'm cool with the first cycle. That's the point of no communication. But the BTP's second cycle of scrapping the LRG's game mechanics in the pursuing closemindedly his shitty idea was dissapointing.
Ain’t no way bro tried to make a management game twice
I'm kind of sad about the result. The devs did an amazing job, but there was really something missing. Like, all of you wanted something else and watching and playing your different games might have been way more enjoyable and overall interesting, but from what I can judge abouit the result... Well, it unfortunatelly dissapoints a lot. The initial point of motion capture is missing, working with someone elses idea was a theme that was forcefully avoided and basically anything that would make this a "game" was removed over and over...
it probably should've been a first person game like the first dev intended, not that easy to see the detailed animations on an rts
@@JD-wv1yi 100% agreed, so much wasted potential on animations too small to appreciate
I really enjoyed the direction the first dev was going in. There was a lot of room for creativity to build off of it but it really felt like it was really watered down in the end. The first dev should def continue the idea he had on his own, I’d def play it.
Same. I would at least like to see where he might have took it.
The first guy had something good going.
The forth guy did a great job making the "Game" a "Game" and not a sim.
I don't understand why we scrapped the entire first guys plan. He sucked you into a TV from a first person view. You took that and made it into a 3rd person sim? Blackthorn Productions man, you are selling game dev kits. To teach people. You have to make something great, be the best in these videos. You actively hurt your brand when you come in, and do worse then every other dev.
Im seriously disappointed. I come in wanting to love every video, actively forcing myself to stay so I can give a like, leave a nice comment, ext. But every video blackthorn joins becomes the same game. Its seriously killing the vibe of the video.
Idc how you fix it. But take a step back and look at the reaction to your work. People like the ideas. Hate the implementation.
Something tells me Blackthornprod really loves management games. And it's always the same one too.
Yes thank you!!
Fr, and i don’t like the no delete rule either because some things are just placeholders,and the pivots in game direction are the best parts of a lot of videos.
I feel that even the devs at the end were disappointed with the outcome, I mean even from before but by the end to me at least it was very noticeable
Couldn't agree more. I watch these videos for the other devs at this point. Let their work shine
You should begin the challenge with "Design Pillars". Three specific pillars that each developer has to ensure the game sticks to. Most game studios implement these at the beginning of the project to give it direction and to stop feature creep, or worse take the project down the wrong direction. For example, "horror, fps & clowns." The chaos of each developer removing work can be fun to watch, but it's mostly just frustrating to see the good work of the previous dev removed. It's more fun to watch an awesome project being created. The new non-delete rule feels more like a band-aid to the problem rather than an actual fix. Also, @Blackthornprod you should use these videos as a way to broaden your skills, you clearly favour 2D game development, but when somebody starts the project off in FPS and you shoehorn in another top down 2D game it gets really frustrating to watch.
That's actually a great idea instead of a No Remove Rule !
I think this seems like the best idea so far. It would allow for games that aren't just an RTS or a top-doen shooter
@@ExplosiveGeek They could even let the community vote on the pillars before they start the challenge.
That defeats the purpose of no communication
@@Nephenon Not really, they will still be able to take the art style and main mechanics of the game however they like, they just have to stick to keeping it to a specific genre. This will mean we actually get a wider range of games shown on the channel.
me waiting for a video where blackthorn changes the entire game because he didnt want a shooter game... oh wait
Maybe for future projects all of the devs agree on a type of game before hand. Then from there they all blindly work on that game as usual and add their own personal touch. That way everyone understands the direction of the project so we prevent a tug of war between devs. This would lead to a much higher quality game.
I'm thinking this is the best version of "don't remove" while also stopping people from doing a 180 on a game that is starting to have promise.
Yes! I just commented something similar!
@@averagegamingplayer Yeah I was really excited for the game after the first dev and then it just got ruined, had so much promise all for nothing. Wonder what it wouldve turned out to be had a different dev got it instead of blackthorn
That would defeat the point of the challenge. The point isn’t exactly to make a ‘great’ game. It’s to test the abilities of the devs themselves.
Full expression of creativity is what each dev needs to bring to the table, so any restrictions, yes, even in genre, would change the dynamic too far towards the ‘make a game together challenge’, rather than ‘passing the game’.
@@Magrijack i do agree with that but there needs to be something that prevents a tug of war and doesn't prevent them from removing anything. a specific path does limit creativity, but stops if from being crabs in a bucket. maybe limit it to a few categories that the devs are good with.
perhaps each dev has a number of votes equal to half the devs. each dev submits one category. you pick the genres in the top 50% for when there are 4 devs or less. and the percentage decreases with the amount of devs. so maybe 2-5 genres the devs can take the game in.
It was an honor to be involved in this challenge!! Happy new year to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I actually liked that you changed the game up
You definitely made a good choice when deciding to re-make the gameplay, shame they decided to backtrack... Happy new year!
I understand why you did it, I understand it should have been done. However, it really did break the spirit of the whole video and collaboration.
I love you bro (no homo)
I’m just about to watch your part and that disclaimer before it has got me excited to see how you mix it up! 😂
BTP just made me break my table after seeing him scrap the first guy's game.
he didn't scrap anything. it was completely open ended
@@thatoneguywhosaysbyethenwa1720 Who do you think you are with your reasonable takes and measured opinions?
@@not_ever My bad, I let my arrogance take over me 😔
Lost Relic Games thank you for changing the game. I honestly did not like the direction it was going.
I just watched more and now im disappointed.
hehe, I tried! :)
@@Structed-2no I think he did good
Facts bro
nah too many of these vids end up being a top down shooter like this so it’s good that it was changed after
Not only did He mess up up once, but ladies and gentlemen he ruined the whole entire game twice. 😂
It's impressive that in these videos someone has a very good idea, like the first developer, and then they turn the game into something extremely generic
Lost relic shifted the game in a good direction
It was a generic top down shooter, theres thousands of vampire survivor clones just like that on steam for like $5.
@@42069memes Ik but if he didn’t’ make it a top down shooter,the game wouldn’t have become the final produce we see in the ending of the video.
At least he had a clesr game loop@@42069memes
@@42069memes true but he also added something i haven't seen in other games like it. saving the kids and the tents, what you mentioned is typically just waves. also i think more could be done with his idea. while it was a top down. it could have easily been redesigned as a first person.
in other words i think it had more potential compared to a management game especially since they are trying to show off the tracking gear. you can make animations for attack moves. but what could you possibly do for for a management game. yeah you could do the juggling and tight rope and other circus stuff but with the time limit and lack of assets that would have to be made for those as well as well the animation outside of tracking. I don't think it was possible.
also you can get those cloned games for free on mobile including the original game, and they work just as well.
@@42069memes better than blackthornprods 100th top down management simulator
ughhhh why is every game they make for these literally the same safe top down shooter or tower defense or purhcase upgrades game? like seriously they couldnt possibly come up with any other kind of game... the first dude came in strong basically forcing them to make a story and they immediately came in with the only think incapable of telling a story. i get they had to use the mocap suit but come onnnnnnnn i only watch these to see if they get better but its feeling like a lost cause of unoriginality
Totally agree with you, especially with a mocap suit, why move the camera miles away into top down?
Agree & btp are usually the ones causing it to go this way. Not every game needs a "gameplay loop" and not every gameplay loop needs to be action > get cash > upgrade > repeat. How boring.
I'd love to see this series with an episode of just the best from the past videos. The devs who liked making stories and bosses and artistic designs.
i fully agree, its basically the same thing and i find these type of games boring as hell. You never see them do any other kind of game, not even a simple thing like a sidescroller or sth.
lol i think it's a bit sad a dev had to make a way to zoom in so you could actually see the mocap, first person was the way that's why the intro (the best part of the game) was fp, making it top down probably wasn't the best idea. sadly the first dev only did the intro and added no gameplay so it was fair game for the next dev. one could say that taking the hints from the previous dev would've been ideal, but there was nothing there gameplay wise so it makes sense
My honest reaction
Cycle 1 Cycle 2
First dev : First dev:
Second dev : Second dev :
third dev : third dev :
forth dev : fourth dev :
Accurate af
Blackthorn has zero awareness
Where tf did dev 2 get that ass idea from looking at the intro
The no remove rule could be a backfire, sometime devs add little features that are bugged and make the game worst and hard to add more things, you'll need exceptions to the rule and will make more complex to know if you can edit than you have time to do it.
it could , but it eliminate the frustration of seeing someone remove all the previous devs hard work , like that one guy who are on this channel remove all the previous devs that trying to make a horror game into a boss fight game
i think the no remove rule isn't literal. Like you're allowed to remove mistakes, but you can't remove a decision another dev made. Like you can't change the genre of game twice in one video
Blackthorn is just always going to go first and start the game off as a top-down tower defense/management game.
Honestly, what other people have suggested should be the case: Blackthorn should host these events, not take part in them.
@@GalakyllzThe other devs had a better idea than him and he forces the idea in twice. He must be hell to work with when he brainstorms with a team.
I swear blackthorn only knows how to make one type of game, worst part is they don’t even design it they just force the concept so that the OTHER DEVS have to work hard to make a passable game out of their bs. I really wish BTP opted out of these challenges more often because it’s one thing to mess up something but they always either ruin the trajectory from the start, or they ruin the game at the end. I always get excited for some devs here because they consistently add new cool stuff and make the video unique, but it doesn’t even feel like BTP are even devs in comparison atp 💀
I think the can’t remove rule a bit unnecessary, nothing was going on and that’s why the circus sim got scratched in the first round. he couldn’t do anything with the concept. Also didn’t you guys then remove his idea that’s hypocritical??
The one time i approve of someone scrapping everything and revamping 🤣 Good job lost relic
4 devs make a game except blackthornprod undoes their work
blackthornprod should manage the challenge without participating since they love top down management games so much 😐
wtf does blackthorn doing? scraping the horror game then scraping the bullet hell game, bruh, classic blackthorn
The problem won't be fixed by "can't remove" Lost Relic Games cycle one was a really good fix to a directionless gallery of a game. If you can't remove anything, it would be impossible to rework and evolve the game (All good games remove content during development for a reason) I feel like the problem is inflexibility and ego: "I can model 3d hands better than this pixel art style" "my original idea/ ideas i get from my other games I make is better than the other ones" Its probably subtle when you are making it, but seeing the play by play of what each dev did, you cringe whenever someone says "this is cool, but..." instead of actually playing with the idea and developing it. I know you guys can all be better with a liitle focus, rooting for you!
TLDR, no remove rule is a bad idea, drop the ego and just try to actually develop ideas instead of adding your own random crap each time
Right! The Devs need to be saying “yes, and” when they get the file
Woke up and decided to spit facts 🗣
It's definitely not a bad rules. There is a difference between No Remove and Editing/Improving. This rule is needed so people don't do things like scrap an entire intro sequence like what was done in this video. So people don't change the genre twice because they don't like the direction of the game. Hell, the game would have been forced to be a 1st person game in this one IF the rule was in place. It might have been a first person simulation game which would have been FAR more interesting imo.
@@sanguinepub Adding any kind of rule regarding content is a problem already. Its the reason large game studios are getting so slow. Noone wants to step on the other departments toes by changing things, unless the upper management makes a decision. But there is no management here. In a no communication challenge that would end up just like large studios end up in development hell, everyone working on unrelated or redundant details.
This one was really interesting. It annoyed me how one dev basically scrapped everything that was built already, but at the same time... It was difficult to tell where the game was going at that point. I liked the idea of an FPS horror game, and it was in my opinion a mistake to turn it into an "RTS" top-down game. You seem to like these unit-commanding games, but I don't think they are a great fit for quick jams like this. That kind of game needs a lot of established mechanics to make them satisfying, and there really was no time for that. As I said, a very thought-provoking video for me! Good drama, too.
Yeah the unit commanding games are also not fun to watch as a viewer especially when they aren't fully fleshed out and easy to understand. They dev that changed everything imo, did a good job. I only say that cause he still used stuff everyone else made. All the animations and models were all used BUT he changed the direction and game play, which SHOULD be allowed because honestly... it looked like it was going in a bad direction, and a dev needs to do what they need to do to fix it as long as they don't throw away all the past work
Yeah. I really loved the idea of combining the first-person and shooter aspect from the other devs. There are enough "tycoon" games in the world, we don't need another.
Amazing comment and I'm glad he reacted to it. He really tries to make these Challenges better every time and he takes a Lot of feedback.
@@qtpaulie but we need another 3rd person shooter? lol
Nothing was really scrapped
what the hell just happened here?!! It was just so random. I really liked the idea of the first dev, but then out of nowhere, bro changed the whole concept!!
It seems like Blackthorn always put good ideas down
*sarcasm*
When you see Noah come out and say, "Hey, don't be mean, part of this is about the changes. IN the future we will be making new rules to stop this, but don't be mean in the comments" You know that it is going to be BAD.
For real. I was instantly like "oh boy..." But the first changes helped the game feel more like a game imo. I think changing it back after hurt it more, but it came together in the end. That said, unfortunately, this game is very similar to many games that come out of this challenge.
yeah. If the initial lost relic game had just been polished, i would have liked it more. @@MillennialHippie
@@isaaccorpproductions5859 Yessss! Maybe they'll get to it one day!
Wow. Poor Ajackster.
His intro was great, then he and his work was totally ignored with full premeditation, there is no place to blame it on the no communication part.
Then Lost Relic Games made a game out of whatever it was at this point.
And then the part of going back to what Blackthornprod wants... unbearable.
Blackthornprod should not take part in anything that requires teamwork
The fourth dev acrually did a good job as well - he was right, there was no game when it was passed to him and no clear or nice way to turn it into a game. Im fact, he still utilized most of what was there in making his shooter. BTP then turns around and scrapped an entire gameplay premise to just go back and undo two devs worth of work.
Glad you guys listened about the "no removing" rule. Obviously it'll need to be loosey goosey but that's the entire point of these videos, so I'm hyped! Hopefully it'll inspire the developers to think about how their choices will affect the next dev a lot more.
glad they add that rule , i still remember SOMEONE remove all previous devs hard work to add in a boss fight , it's a horror game , IYKYK
It’s so funny that they only implemented it after it was *their* work that got removed
Bro you watch that garbage youtuber to lmao he says everything out of his ass
i think the idea of being able to tag something as "do not remove" as opposed to just assuming everything is do not remove
Reading the comments on these videos makes me feel better about being upset at what blackthorn does.
It’s a constant pattern in all of these videos, and seen as the comments are almost always like this, criticizing him and basically begging for him to be a cooperative team player instead of a controlling host, he obviously sees it as simply engagement and ignores what everyone says.
Since he is unwilling to change, I really hope to see another game developer/TH-camr (possibly someone who participates in these blackthorn game jams) start making their own videos with the same concept, but in a way that’s more satisfying for the viewers and lets us be interested in the games being made. I’m tired of seeing the same things happen over and over again. The only times I’ve felt okay with these is when blackthorn isn’t on the project.
I personally find that although Blackthornprod knows what he's doing with game dev, the project feels like it's been ruined if he's got his hands on it too early. i think he should be the last person who gets his hands on it so he can spend some more time reviewing what has been made then adding a twist. I just dont like watching colony management every video.
Lol I think BTP should have nothing to do with these challenges besides coordinating the devs. IMO they are always they worst additions
Ah yes, because the time he added a centipede boss to the game when he was the final contributor was so much better.
Bruh tf happened with second dev? First dev have solid setting. Somehow the second dev change it totally.
Btp you might want to take a back seat on a few of these.. running out of your own feet to shoot now and it's such a shame because the concept is amazing and the editing is always on point x
Cycle two was edited in the wrong order I think. It seems like Codeer and Ajacksters were accidentally placed in the wrong order.
I just remember when btp made devlogs more and whatnot. They clearly want to make things based off what they think (I mean they were the ones who were very stubborn on their idea in this pass the game challenge) but it just seems they want to keep milking this goat.
Idk but just having these challenges feels extremely stale and I miss seeing more ingenuity from btp
This is a great series, I think you have to understand that once you have the golden goose. You let it lay its egg. They want to do game dev n youtube as a job, But one of those popped off first, so they pivoted into doing it more, until they grow enough that they can do both.
@@Salmacream I mean yeah it’s a good series but I struggle to see why they couldn’t even do some other things on top of it adding variety. At first it was really cool but it just feels jaded. I understand their strategy and it’s smart but I just wish for more variety I suppose
@@HoodedOliveI think that had more to do with the fact that a lot of these games end up being the same concept. Maybe they should pick a genre before not communicating so there's more chances for variety without someone switching the genre.
@@MillennialHippiethat's pretty much how i feel, i loved these videos at first, but they all end up just ending up being some sort of management or a kind of shooter game...
@@MillennialHippie That could be it. I think it could be just the lack of variety of types of videos. If they want to stick with challenges that’s fine but what if they tried to branch out more? Like that engine battle was pretty cool. Trying some new ideas and spins on gamedev challenges could be fun and innovative if they want to stay within this niche of gamedev challenges.
The btp team have shown themselves to be very creative with things such as games so I’m sure they could come up with some new ideas for video types.
First dev had a good idea on creating a fps horror game, then this guy built some terrible circus tycoon, next guy changed it into a classic top down shooter that wasn’t bad, then this dude changed it back to his terrible circus, and this guy is a developer.
Its not the first time I strongly disagree with the type of direction or expectations that Blackthorn introduce in the games of this type of challenges... The first dev came with an original and amassing idea then.. a circus tycoon? Totally disconnected. The forth dev do a totally cohesive turn and then... back to tycoon-esque game. And this is a trend in various of their videos, almost every single one of this challenges
Kind of sad it ended up as a top-down management game instead of the original fps horror game but I still loved the video, good job to everyone involved!
BTP be like "oh crap. Idk how to make shooters, better make a management game." He sells game courses 😂
Holy crap. The first dev actually made an interesting intro to a game I would actually play! And of course bthorn screws it up making it ANOTHER place your buildings down and manage it type of game. Thankfully the 4th dev actually scrapped it, which I’m unusually thankful for. His shooter game, although not original, looked fun! The AGAIN bthorn throws it all out and makes it a manage your carnival game. READ THE ROOM my guy. Absolutely disappointing. Can’t wait to see the no change rule and I’m interested to see if it stays the whole year or not.
I really hope you actually read the comments and notice a lot of fans are dissatisfied and disappointed with you being unable to work alongside creators and following their path and overall just changing the games perspective to whatever you dream to be “the best.”
I love these videos, but I feel like it’s gotten to a once you’ve seen one you’ve seen all anytime blackthorne is involved. It just turns into a management sim or a top down over and over.
Could be doing it just to get interactions to push the algorithm, in which case clearly it’s working, but it overall just makes these less of a must watch and more of an oh a new video
you guys should host one thats like charades so the devs can "communicate" by uploading a 10 second video of them doing like some weird pose or something and that is supposed to encapsulate their ideas on the game, and the other devs can see it and try to base it off that, like gartic phone or something.
First dev: first person horror game. Its really simple. What could be wrong? Second dev: onga bonga
I think that the "no deleting rule" is good but maybe have some episodes where devs can still delete stuff because I really liked where lostrelicgames was taking it personally.
To be honest, I hated where both LostRelic and Blackthorn were taking it. These games as of late have seemed like they are always management games or shooters. There are exceptions, but I'm tired of all these games feeling like mobile games.
@@sanguinepub I mean in their defense they only have so much time and I think that pretty much no matter what it is going to feel like a mobile game.
@@Jargoed It doesn't help when a developer changes the game and another changes it back right after... also removing the initial person's work completely. Two out of 8 time slots to develop the game were removed.
Also- they've done games that didn't feel like a mobile game in the past. Having a fully complete game isn't a requirement. Even if they made a demo for a larger game, that would be more interesting.
@@sanguinepub Yes you are definitely right! when you put it like that I understand a lot more. I was thinking more from a different perspective that if the developers are unable to redo work then it can limit creativity but I suppose if it is a bad result then it is a bad result. At the end of the day it is a challenge and challenges are made to be failed and learned from :)
@@Jargoed Exactly. It's honestly refreshing to have a conversation with someone instead of seeing negativity and arguments. To make points and to listen one another is always great. :D
I was actually talking to the person I was watching the video with. I told them how I didn't like what Blackthorn did because there was a basis for the first person already in place. Not only from the intro sequence being in first person, changing the channels, but there was a brief scene where the player wakes up in first person and a level ready to be made.
I mentioned that I loved the concept of the wacky commercials and building off the hypnosis would be cool. To me, it does scream you need something weird, first person, and to do with the antagonist that was modeled.
I personally may not have gone with the circus theme, but let's say I did. A fun idea I can think of on the spot is a first person horror game where the circusmaster is making the player have fun. You are forced to do circus themed events like shoot yourself from a canon, trapese act, all the while listening to the circusmaster.
If you listen to him, you slowly lose yourself being fully controlled by him (bad ending). Nothing bad happens if you listen to him. But if you disobey him, then horror events happen and the game becomes difficult. This could be story or maybe a game where you have to blend in with the crowd in order not to get caught.
There are a lot of ways you could go about this. Even getting a demo of that, I feel, would make a very interesting scenario to build on. It's likely impossible to have that vision passed on to the next dev but doing as much as you can and to try and push it in that direction should be the fun of it. If it doesn't go that way, they have to build off your work and go in the direction they think you are taking it.
Then in the end, what is made is made. Be it a demo or a full game. It's about the fun and that is what I want to see. Not this game where everyone is trying to change the game into their vision.
I don't know if this has been suggested before but the game should have a set theme and genre before anything starts. It keeps the spirit of a game jam still where there is still room for interpretation amongst the devs.
The no removal rule seems like it's going to backfire big time as others have pointed out.
In this game for example the first dev had something really cool going and made amazing use of the motion capture and clearly had a genre and theme in mind. BlackThorn then just went and did their own thing afterwards. Sure nothing was removed but it went so off target from where it started.
The first dev shouldn't have all the say either that's not what I'm saying but a theme and a genre at the outset imposes some limitations and let's the devs go from there and work creatively within the limitations as well as make informed decisions when building on previous work.
This is a great but frustrating series sometimes. It's at it's best when it feels like great improv the holy rule of yes and. Sometimes what happens here is yes but instead or yes but no.
Also:
I do like this structure of each dev getting to have another round after it's been passed through. It gives everyone a chance to maybe leave their mark still in the game instead of completely being erased.
Including my own comment, you're the third person saying this (the other person had 10 likes, so more agree, too). A lot of people in the comments are getting bored of the game turning into the same concept, and this is the easiest way to fix that without having the no- communication thing changed.
i agree with your last statement but at the same time it felt too chaotic. what i mean is that the order that the devs went it seemed random. shouldn't it have lopped back to the first or start at the end and then move in the opposite direction? here is a visual of what i mean "1 2 3 4_1 2 3 4" or "1 2 3 4_4 3 2 1" instead it went "1 2 3 4_2 3 1 4" i mean i get scheduling might be a problem but i would have preferred to have waited longer for the video if it was one of the first two orders. especially since 2 did the same thing each time it was their turn. change the entire game to what they want it to be.
Love Lost Relic, he really tried to make it fun.
Please DONT ADD the no REMOVE RULE!!! Not only would it cripple devs in their freedom, it would in many cases make the game worse. Sometimes things have to be removed to make the game better, remember the helicopter that got removed and replaced by a flying super hero? Yeah that game was awesome. So please just keep it as it is, even if it sometimes goes a bit wrong, thats part of the fun.
Right! That was my favorite game they’ve made!!
They didn't remove the helicopter, they enhanced it. Removing would be making it from a helicopter to a tank.
Game looked like it was going to be fun until you added whatever you did and then it looked better when someone else changed it again you decided to do the same thing and it was still a bad idea by you imo. Ik that they don’t communicate but it woukdve been much better game if it was a creepy horror game
I was so excited to see the first devs idea! Could easily be fixed by picking a genre at the beginning.
Like, the first person horror would have shown off the suits they were using but that second dev decided “NOPE, lets use this opportunity to do a management game that is more unappealing design than acting and atmosphere. That’s the best use of the tools we wanna display for sure” 😂
I'd love to see a more host-like role for Blackthorn in the future, so the games created are a bit less of that Blackthorn style. Don't get me wrong, I love the Blackthorn games and they're often always fun and interesting, but they're still that: *Blackthorn* games. I think the point of *different* devs collaborating is to create something completely new, not to replicate an older formula. Anyway, sadly I agree with many of the less positive comments on this video. I think deleting (Or rather, editing) is an important part of the game dev process, if handled graciously like Lost Relic Games did in his first round. The switch from the Fps back to the original Blackthorn Idea I thought was perceived as petty, when it could've been taken as feedback to improve the game. Overall as a viewer and for the channel's future in mind, more patience and compatibility with the other dev's ideas is what makes these videos entertaining, and the creative and new approaches, not just tried-and-true Blackthorn approaches, is what earned my subscription in the first place. Please keep this sense of creativity alive.
Well said
needs more giant centipede bosses
honestly if i was in the same situation i wouldve completely changed it aswell because it was hard to figure out how the game worked and if there was an end goal or not
I really like the revamp the 4th dev made. I think sometimes the removals are necessary! Otherwise you’re just digging a deeper hole when you could use the time of these talented devs to make something spectacular.
Yeah I dont think forcing devs to use everything is the solution. Just don't try to force your own idea into the game if it does not fit with what's already there
i love how noa never "leaves something up to the next dev"
To be honest, after Blackthornprod the game took a steep turn...
It always does tbh...
I'm going to be very honest here and I'm sorry if it hurts any of the devs feelings.
These started out super fun and interesting-seeing multiple creative minds make something was a video I looked foward to.. but they've since become rather bland and repetitive, it's always some kind of world builder game or shooter, and this video makes it evident that the video format is really falling apart. There could of been something truly interesting with what that first dev created, but it immediately was muddled down in a generic soulless click, drag and drop. Why is that?
I respect that you finally added a "no remove" feature but how about adding some sort of theme? Or restrictions, this way we don't just get re-hashed versions of the same game concept over and over.
Much love to everyone involved. No hate, I admire what you do and I hope it can continue
Actually, I misunderstood this too. The no remove rule is for the benefit of blackthornpod. The guy that messed up the 3D shooter game, the literal host. His carnival idea got scrapped and it turned into a top down shooter. He wanted his carnival sim back. When in reality, he removed the 3D FPS part of the game first..
I really appreciate Lost Relic games and how they changed it. At first I wasn't sure how I felt about him scrapping everything before and changing it, but when I saw how he changed it I actually thought it worked. He was being very respectful about it, reusing the assets in a different way rather than just scrap them, and giving it an actual gameplay loop, because he was right, it was boring with it not going anywhere yet.
And you can very much tell that Noa got the game back and went 'oh no fires are gonna start in the comments' and decided to backtrack to try and prevent that from happening. Because we have gotten upset by those changes before! The thing with this one is that it was done in a respectful way so it was actually ok, particularly because it didn't have much meat yet so a change like that wasn't groundbreaking. So this time him changing it was actually a bit more upsetting because it nullified all the progress Lost Relic had made on it.
That's our main problem with that sorta stuff. Nullifying progress. Makes it so the game doesn't end up finished sometimes and it's a bit frustrating to see people constantly try to take control by changing core things so frequently. But I'm ok with both of them in this video, because they had very good reasons for why they made those changes, even if it is still a bit of an annoyance, it's an ok one that you can understand and grow to like because it's not too drastic of a change.
You guys are doing well with this pass the game series. I think the no removing rule will help people become more creative with what they're given once it's implemented, and am looking forward to it. Sorry for all the times we've gotten worked up in the comments, we just wanna see you guys make something cool because we know you can and it's just a bit frustrating when it doesn't turn out to be as good as it could've because of backtracking. You guys are great for getting all these people together and getting all this sorta stuff to work though. Keep up the great work. ^^
I feel like the amusement park manager was a bit too different from what the intro would imply and I would have preferred a fph (First person Horror) experience and I also think that the top down shooter was good as well
I was pretty excited for a cool first person story horror and was immediately disappointed