Well… this video has aged like milk… I’m going back and forth on whether or not to leave it up, but I want to reinforce that it’s fine to have opposing opinions and viewpoints *SO LONG AS they aren’t damaging.* When your viewpoints border on the violently ignorant, enough to be indifferent about violence against innocent groups of people who have lost all autonomy, that poses a serious problem. I lose all willingness to want to hear you out.
This is not a knock on any of your points, I just had to take a moment to say that it's so sad how another AAVE term (woke) has been completely watered down into something that's not only useless but tends to have a negative connotation. This was a word used by the Black community to celebrate how aware one was of the current socio-political issues (especially with systemic oppression of black people). I remember it putting an instant smile on people's faces when they were declared 'woke'. And now is used to describe when one is hypersensitive about these issues. People immediately get defensive when they're called woke. It really isn't fair.
This 💯.. this is actually the first way I’ve learned the term woke (besides its literal meaning lol) and it’s truly disappointing the way the term is used now..
@@nublock5000 well just because someone is black doesn’t mean they automatically know what a term means. Not to mention she’s not even of the AA diaspora, she’s Zimbabwean if I’m not mistaken. So that doesn’t really mean anything.
I think when I started my Ktube channel I had a very narcissistic perspective with my takes and how I presented them. When I first started gaining traction and received varying levels of backlash on different videos, my initial reaction was one of vitriol and anger. "Why do these people disagree with my POV? How can they be this foolish?" sort of thoughts. But overtime I started to realize how many young impressionable fans are present within the online space, and there were most likely a fair amount of young stans who saw my videos and were angry because it went against their views on a specific situation. Like take my iconic Aespa video, were some of those angry stans maybe, misguided in their anger? Maybe, but plenty were probably young stans who have yet to develop different perspectives on a song or maybe their favorite group, and the longer I thought about it the less angry I became, because in maybe some different universe that could've been me leaving that hate comment because I found the video to be an attack on my views. So when I see some issue that is totally overblown, or one that can be defined as "Gen Z being sensitive", I take more time to not only think about the situation and it's impact on others, but also attempt to see the other person's POV. Like the Hyuna situation, I saw many say that she "never stood for empowerment and you're just projecting your ideals onto idols" and while that can be true. I had easily 4 or 5 dozen fans tell me how she stood for empowerment for them personally, how they drew meaning out of her music and why her actions went against that. Are those people, wrong because Hyuna herself never meant for that to be her impact? I don't think so, I think those people have the right to be disappointed. It's important to take our time with sensitive topics and see all angles, instead of quickly formulating opinions or rushing to conclusions because that's just how we see the world. A lot of immature kpop stans who said some things they don't mean online, will reflect 5 or 6 years down the road and think to themselves, "why was I like that?", and I think that's just a natural step in being a human.
I definitely think the key is removing yourself from a situation enough to be able to evaluate all sides of an issue. That’s easier said than done, and is difficult when applied to kpop, where often more than half of the issue is unavailable via companies’ non-disclosure policies. Hyuna is a bit of a unique situation to me, where I believe more information was available than what people were willing to search for and worth with. It either comes from ignorance, or just an immediate dismissal of her as an individual over what she has done. It’s such a tricky thing to navigate, because I can’t really blame people for not wanting to give her any sort of lenience over what happened
@@choujimi so contradiction was something you brought up in your video but here you are contradicting yourself . First of all this is a hate comment this big TH-camr just called another Ktuber immature which is against everything you preached in your video . Next time look in the mirror before you come for everglow-up sir .
@@KevinMullings-j2j Taejiu is not calling everglow-up immature here, maybe read it again? It’s also not inherently hateful to see someone as immature in their views. I don’t perceive it as hateful, could you tell me why you do?
I truly respect everglow-up as a creator, but i feel like sometimes she just wants to be "edgy", not in a bad way, but i think she wants to cause a reaction. The problem is that people hate whenever someone points out an issue, as it makes people think, and it feels like an attack on the thing they enjoy. Usually people just say its woke because its something kinda progressive that they disagree with. The american point i kind of agree with. Not individual Americans, but the way American culture leans on hyper awarness and obsession. Which leads to some things she mentioned. However, pointing fingers at young people who are just growing up, amd had their ideals influenced by the older generation seems silly to me. The older generations always have that superiority complex
“New Kpop fans need something like tumblr” K-pop tumblr is alive and well!! It’s my main source of K-pop content behind yt :) if you have never been on K-pop tumblr, I encourage it, it’s actually great
Yeah definitely! I feel bad about making it seem like Tumblr isn’t a thing anymore, I was more trying to express that the “older” function of Tumblr for young people in general was that it was a space where they could bounce social viewpoints off of each other without much of a consequence in the grand scheme of social media Nowadays, and as you said, Tumblr seems to be more of a community-focused space rather than an echochamber as it used to be. I think the absence of that echochamber function is what has caused the community of kpop at large to suffer, as social issues are brought up across every social media platform for most members of the kpop community to be able to see
a lot of these ‘issues’ that are discussed in your and Everglow-up’s videos are quite ambiguous and complex, Gen Z and Gen Alpha are growing up, a lot of these people are children, literal children! I think it’s unfair to blame them on things as they are still growing up, their ‘troubles’ are not new (maybe expect for growing up on the internet but that’s up for debate), however it is being taken in an extreme, they’re ‘doomed’ and i think that’s even more harmful for them rather than their ‘troubles’, things are definitely being exasperated by the older generations probably because of their fear of the rapid change that is happening in society right now With the ‘iPad kids’ thing, I think children are being handed technology and social media dangerously young, and are only being chastised for being immature on these platforms when it is in line with their age, this will have an effect and will consequences wether good or bad, whatever we do now is irreversible though in the future and will have an effect on these people my bad if this does not seem in line with your video or misses the point completely, I have a lot of thoughts about this, I could go on for a long time about these topics as it is something that’s really engaging and interesting to me! great video, keep it up! oh and also not saying that children shall not be policed, children shall be properly and righteously treated by society, which unfortunately does not happen, before anyone comes for me lol
I agree - there’s a LOT more to this issue than I think anyone on ktube could ever cover comprehensively. Development in behavioral psychology research regarding the “iPad kids” phenomenon is still very much under progress, and will hopefully tell us more about these issues in the future - In the end, I think it’s a matter of research rather than social problems, but as this problem regards society so much as we all now share the kpop community together, we can’t help but try and make it a social issue lol
@@choujimi yes definitely! it is a social topic in all its right as this does effect us in our every day lives, this should be talked about in all communities, especially the K-pop one. as we are greeted with new and younger fans every day it is only a matter of time before we see what the consequences of whatever the issues are effect this community, change will happen to our delight or dismay nevertheless lol
Something a lot of people in the general "is gen Z too sensitive" discussion seem to forget is that most of us in the generation either grew up in the pandemic or had just grown up when it started. In march 2020, I was 21 and had just started my first ever job and suddenly everything closed and meeting friends didn't feel safe. Being essentially "forced" into seeing the world through screens if you didn't want to somehow help spread covid does a lot more to the psyche than some of the holier than thou's like egu realize imo.
Kpop fan since 2005 here. I'm a 90s born person. I don't think it has to do with a certain generation needing to be a scapegoat at all. The problem moreso lies with the American culture and mannerisms that since the massive adding of American audiences to the kpop fandom, has significantly caused for a mass toxicity we've never seen before prior in kpop without them. And I find it hard to even say, because some of my good friends are American and we're all doing okay. It's not that they're toxic as a friend, from person to person. But the way the US consumes music and in general has this very loud form of entitlement on average (not all people!!!), is the problem itself. I def don't think we should put this on "Oh it's just young people." We had young people throughout 2005 to 2024 and I don't think the majority of them were ever super noisy or problematic. We were just vibin til the pandemic hit and BTS was picked up by the US, thus suddenly exposing masses of US audiences to the kpop music market and THEN creating a social nuclear field.. that says a lot. Btw if you're a nice American, who doesn't do crazy things in kpop: Bless you, you are welcome. We need you!
This is such a good point. I'm American and have been listening to kpop since 2010. Back then, you were made fun of for liking K-pop. Even though BTS was gaining traction since 2017, the fandom was still very niche, and most of us were nerds and definitely not the "cool kids". Comparing ARMY concert vlogs from 2017 to now there is definitely more fanfare in how we dress and carry ourselves. I started noticing this during the 2019 tour. Tiktok started gaining traction in the states in September 2018. This lines up with the US dates for the LY tour and explains the growing need to be dressed up for these concerts that wasn't really there in BTS' earlier tours (of course there are a lot of factors that go into this). Then the pandemic hit, and Dynamite exposed the general public to BTS and K-pop. Now it is seen as the it thing to like. Just like how bc of Taylor Swift, the Cheifs have a lot of bandwagon fans. Fans that are in it as if it were a status symbol. Now, K-pop has the status as cool. This is good for K-pop, but bad for fans that rather not see the toxic side of fandoms. Real fans like kpop for the music and artistry that goes into it, while fake fans cling on to what is popular just for popularity sakes. At the end of the day social media seems to thrive on toxicity and community outrage. Also, I think as international fans, we were kind of out of the loop on the toxicity of Korean kpop community. It was like being in our own bubble. There was definitely toxicity back then and even in the years before the pandemic (BTS ARMY really documented the toxicity that some other fandoms dished out to us and even BTS and that all happened prepandemic), but it did not blow up on social media. So it could also be the rise of social media that gives voice to toxicity in general instead of just an uptick in toxicity. Plus the pandemic really erased some people's ability to show respect to others. I think this extends worldwide though. I've seen many mean comment towards American kpop fans bc of how Americans are viewed. Everytime a tour is announced or an American fan wishes for a city close to them, hate rains down. I've also seen a lot of mean tweets from Americans or racist tweets from Brazilians or Koreans (the list goes own). Some parts of kpop social media is such a cesspool. A lot of people have a warped ego and Id that social media gives a platform to that wasn't really there ten years ago. I've even seen videos talking about this for western artists or even communitiessuch as book tok or the knitting community. It's really mind boggling.
@@bluesidecollection uhhhh no?? Not rly. bts initially exploded since late 2016/2017 onwards and had the biggest fandom from then on. thats why they won the top social artist at the bbmas with like a 90% margin in votings continuing to do so in 2018 and beyond, winning vmas, pcas, tcas other awards which required voting in some capacity (ofc getting their korean, uk, japan etc etc awards too) and army has always been loud and proud of BTS. Thats how fans spread the word about them over the years, we had armys making flyers to give out prior to a cb release back then and make interesting pamphlets/posters that would get put up all over different cities to hype up the release. Like majority of army has never given a fkc about others and what they think is "cool" or "in" this is why to this day you will have a tweet with thousands of likes and retweets about kpop stans being embarrassed to say they listen to kpop or xyz group/artist and have the replies and quotes agree with them😭 meanwhile an army is quoting that same tweet being like "this could never be me with bts" or something of the sort and the army quote gets 20k+ likes because its simply the truth also while i do see a correlation with tiktok being in the rise 2018/2019 when they had their LY tour i wouldn't be so quick to pin people dressing up more because of it as you said there r a lot of factors and a couple of them could be: - the fans simply have been growing up with bts, the fans r older so they know themselves more as people/know how to dress for big social event like be it a concert, festival, seminars etc etc/having more disposable income because a lot of people started working or were working for some time having full time or part time jobs - BTS tours became more of an EVENT add in their tours growing larger and larger in scale to the stadium tours they do now, that all started in 2019 too. There r some fans that go to multiple stops but for majority its just that ONE (maybeee 2) shows they get the chance to go to and they wont be seeing the guys until they come back and do another one, with no guarantee they could go see BTS again because whewww getting your hands on their tickets is impossible. So the fans want to make the most of it dress crazy, experiment with their outfit makeup hair nails, do one of the guys looks from an mv or go with a silly costume like those inflatable dinosaur ones lol BTS were already massive before the pandemic and dynamite (ofc all that made them bigger not denying that) but they had sold out stadium shows wherever they went, 3 consecutive bb200 #1s, a top #10 hit with multiple other entries on hot100, IFTP (i think thats the acronym hahaa) best selling albums worldwide, breaking 30-40 year old records, UN speech, youngest recipients awarded the order of cultural merit for spreading korean language and culture worldwide and many more all prior to their second explosion that took place post 2020. All that to say they already brought massive massive audiences and new stans to kpop and its really crazy to think about because bts is like 10 times bigger now than they were back in 2017-2019 yet they unintentionally did so much free promo to their home country and the kpop industry just by existing. Mannn they're so crazy like they the goats fr fr 😵💫😌😌☝️ Your last paragraph so true!! Its not that there is an uptick of toxicity but just social media is more present in peoples lives so we just see it more and r more aware of it now, but it has always been there. Like this time we r living in right now is the first time in history people from all corners of the world get to interact, talk, video chat with others on the other side of the world in real time. See and read about things we probably would have never known had it not been for the internet and social platforms so there is information overload, sensory overload add in a lot of these algorithms favoring negative posts/tweets/tiktoks that spread quicker than a post with the right information for example too and its just fkcd all around. There's echo chambers, misinformation, too much too much just too much everywhere that some people end up spiraling from all of it. AND what you said about people never recalibrating correctly because of the pandemic to where people have that level of respect that was always present but now js missing not only in the US but other countries as well like people rly became a$$holes after going through a global crisis 😭😭💀💀 like understandable on one hand but on the other man we rly lost BAD my god Soo yeah by this point idk where i am going with this fjdjdks imma stop typing this was enough for today 😭😭😭😩😩
Toxic fans have existed in Kpop since before there were light sticks. Since I became a fan maybe 5 years ago, I've learned about a lot of problems with Kpop fans going back to the days of H.O.T. when there was a huge brawl between 2 fandoms. So, I don't think this is a problem with American fans.
Tbh I don't really watch everglowup anymore, since she once opened a video with a line that had a transphobic undertone stating that it was absurd that men could act like women or 'pretend' to be women
@@valtaep1ece796 hmm no, i don't know what you're referring to but the everglowup video (if I remember correctly) was a stage presence analysis video, and she opened it up with analogies of absurd things that people say and do, one of which is men 'thinking they could pretend to be women' or something of the sort, which I personally felt uncomfortable with as it seemed clear she was alluding to trans women
I definitely got that too, man 😕 even in the video this one is responding to, the language she used was quite…problematic and I cant help but see how it would leak over to people and their identities if she were confronted w the conversation. She brought up cultural appropriation as an example and it felt like a “read between the lines” kind of statement 💀
Everglow-up did a good job on that video and u did a good job on this video. I genuinely agree with everglow-up and even tho I am young(13). I really do think young people are running Kpop and the internet because they just don't understand how things work in the real world and I don't like it because they give young people a bad and stupid presence online and I hope they would learn in the future
not an attack or anything but i think the main issue of your statement is that so many children are being given unlimited access to social media, which then leads to children/early teens online being immature mostly in line with their age about certain things, then this gets taken out of proportion with the rest of K-pop community as it gains more traction. I think the bad/stupid presence online of young people is mostly due to; a - society having the mentality of expecting 12 year olds to go to 21 overnight, b - young children being handed technology and social media at a dangerously young age they may never learn in the future as their perspective on the world is skewed from social media, they may do and be hit with the reality of their actions I think the issue of young people on social media is a very complex matter, we do not fully know the consequences yet, however whatever we do now is going to be irreversible in the future again no hard feelings or an attack i just have some thoughts of my own towards your statement! you do seem very thoughtful with your opinions and I do partially agree with you, I hope you have a good day :)
I genuinely do think that most, there will always be exceptions would grow out of it gen z at least, gen alpha is suspicious as they are starting out from a young age but if the adults in their life take action of wouldn't be that bad. In what I've noticed since I always just love to observe the the world and how people behave, most teenagers my age and above while immature are not stupid and I really do think most of us would grow out of it Me and a couple of my friends want to start a podcast called the hypocritical podcast because we as we are entering our teenage years know want to talk about serious issues in an environment where people would not just dismiss our words and opinions and genuinely listen and come up with more points for the argument. and since we spent our whole lunch period last.Friday yelling and ranting about our parents and the most immature way we have ever acted in a while, but we are still serious about our podcast. This is my biggest example of gen z can and most will grow up even if we stay sassy little monster forever we will mature over time But thanks for replying you made a really good point I hadn't thought about most will grow up but there will be the exceptions who wouldn't want to accept reality and thrive on tic tok.
Woke, as a negative term, simply refers to a cultural climate of social activism that is regarded as exaggerated (whether the causes as such are valid depends on your politic). This difference with Gen Z and Alpha is that they are not only unduly influenced by social media, but social media in turn gives young people a power they never had before - and they don't always use it wisely. And no, it's not always good to have differing opinions - if your opinions aren't based on facts and you won't change them even when the facts are corrected, that's detrimental to public discourse. An example of your own: If with "Pilgrims" you mean the American "Pilgrim fathers" that came to the USA - this was in 1620, and people were long able to write then, education was just not very widespread, if someone couldn't it wasn't because the species homo sapiens wasn't evolved enough to have the requisite fine motor skills. Whether "sensitivity" is a good thing depends on what people are sensitive about - if it just regards something that is relevant for yourself, it can be narcissism, and there are studies that show that this has actually increased.
i agree with this video! it is important to recognize all of the stances, situations and nuances that exist alongside this discussion. that being said, to add a bit to the discussion myself: the conversation about these two generations being destined to fail almost completely dismisses their ability to become proper members of society. i think it should be noted that every generation that came before gen z & alpha all faced the same flack and belief that they were some “evil” group of individuals who would go on to ruin our world as we know it… and that never happened (depending on who you ask buuuut that’s another conversation lol). i think, similarly to what you touched on, each generation brings in change and differences as they develop alongside the ever changing world we live in and that thought scares older generations, whether they are conscious of it or not. humans are quick to dismiss and not react kindly to things they are not familiar with as they are confused by what exactly it is. i think gen z and gen alpha are too early in their societal participation to discern whether or not they are “acceptable” members of society. i do believe that there are negative aspects that are exclusive to these two generations, no doubt, but majority of them are children we are talking about. and who exactly are these children modeling after..? the internet has some influence of course, but then again, that behavior still goes back to those who came before them. i think the only way to make an “ideal” generation develop would require previous generations to be more conscious of their actions because as you said, adults are just as capable of behaving in an unfavorable manner. undoubtedly, when the next generation begins, we will have this same conversation again. when that happens i just think people need to ask themselves what exactly they plan on doing to change the trajectory of these children if they’re such nuisances and lack skills they deem relevant or acceptable. because sitting and waiting on the downfall of those who are supposed to be our future instead of uplifting them is both unproductive and incredibly sad. within reason, gen z and alpha need to be given a proper chance. everything has positives and negatives and those developing right now are absolutely no different.
I definitely agree! I see a lot of ethical conversations brought up around the behaviors of a class of 5-year-olds, and it seems to me like that is way too early of an age to be at all definitive of what the future of our society will be like. I think we need to give it more time, especially with behavioral psychology research, and come to a conclusion later on to see if it really is as widespread as people are worried about
@@choujimi you're right! but at the same time, i can't help but wonder. even with extensive research, would we be able to conclude this discussion with something that both satisfies the demographic in question and prescribes a reason why __ number of factors exist, occur, and have shaped the future society that is universal? there's really so much to consider, and with time and change, there's really no concrete way of knowing... not to prolong this conversation, just some food for thought
This was such a refreshing video and earned a sub! I appreciated your dicussion on gaining social awarness for global injustices. All too often, that kind of social growth is belittled instead of encouraged so I want to give you props for that. We are watching America support another genocide, and I hope everyone can deconstruct their biaes as you have. On egu...I really admire egu's outspokeness and expertise. I admired her stances on defending Wonyoung and her choice to not promote newjeans cuz they're underaged, but I unfortunately am steering away from her content. As an adult enby, some of egu's gender comments have made me side eye her. And her vid on gen alpha really just sounded like the same stuff boomers said about millennials. I'm entering my late 20's and have been into kpop for over a decade: without fail--younger stans get blamed for ruining kpop. The reasons change, now its for being too woke...but honestly...fans aren't woke--not really. Fans will excuse racism, transphobia, sexism--as long as its for their faves, and that isnt something that woke people do. As other comments have said, wokeness comes from the black community and it is when a person "wakes up" to the racial and social inequalites around them. Wokeness isnt the problem--its fan culture in a media that encourages parasocial consumption. Fans will find ANY reason to argue their fave is being mistreated, and now that we have kpop idols from different nationalites--they found a new angle. None of this is new, because being a child or a teen is not new. There is room for discussion around it. Overall, wokeness, feminism, and anti-racist thought has had a positve impact on the community. We are seeing greater lenency towards dating, awarness around blackface and slurs, more kpop idols of different nationalites, and so on. Yes, that comes with growing pains, but its worth it. I understand that she has to directly deal with angry child fans in a way that I dont, but I am leaning away from her content. Edit: holy fuck I just saw the stuff about Palestine!
Honestly, I don't think Americans are more sensitive. Like, your median American doesn't think about Korea at all. But Americans who care about Kpop are a different subset that is more open to caring about foreign cultures. Meanwhile, if you're living in East or South East Asia, Kpop is kind of a default. So you're getting a more representative sample. This would explain some behavior difference trends without being an overarching thesis about how America is so different.
I think an important thing people forget about young Americans, even myself as an older member of gen Z, is that our view of education has probably been warped in ways we won't fully understand for a long time... because of- and I know this is heavy- gun violence, specifically at schools. We are told we need to spend so much time and energy and effort somewhere we feel increasingly unsafe. Millennials had 9/11, yes. And, being from that area, I know it was awful, even if I don't remember the day itself. But young Americans today are having constant drills in case of someone coming to the place they go almost every day with an automatic weapon. It only makes sense that kids today are harping on education and sensitive topics because I imagine we're all pretty desperate to think of and be engrossed in something other than fear. Granted, online learning during quarantine has also probably affected the way kids feel about this, but I think the psychology of it all is important to take into consideration. Young Americans are desperate to take a walk in others' shoes to escape the way their own make them feel.
Omg that's such a good point nayeonchantix! A lot of societal pressure cuz of various other acts of violence (such as gun violence as you mentioned and parents fighting as my example) can also affect even the littlest of people. I would also like to add the pressure from peers (such as the general notion of parents setting sky high expectations for their kids to get good grades to become doctors or lawyers to gain that good $$$, etc) can definitely take a toll on a child and their way of finding their identity. It's adds onto the many ways living as a teen can be so tough not just in current day but for all eras of life so far
I'm born in the 90s. I don't want to sound like "aaaah, these young people are ruining everything these days" BUT I don't think this is just older people looking for something to blame. While the older generations are capable of acting like hypocritical a-holes, I think it's a lot more common for younger people to act this way. Back in the day, we don't have this "cancel culture" thing nor issues that blow waaaaaay out of proportion, only to get contradicted/forgotten the next week. I think this comes down to the fact that, social media and technology in general are being introduced to people a lot younger than before. I see 5 y.o. having phones and ipads nowadays. Before we know it, they'll be interacting with the bad tomatoes of the older generation. They're younger, so whenever they get exposed to any negativitiy, they think it's a huge deal. Older people are generally immune to this. I remember being young and only thinking about toys, and feeling like those toys are the only things that matter in the whooole world. That's exactly what's happening nowadays, but instead of toys, it's social issues. Well, I think I blew that out of proportion 😂 but you get what I mean. It's meant to be hyperbolic. Also, "being sensitive and aware of the problems of the people around you", we call that compassion. Being aware AND acting on it is being compassionate. To me, being overly-sensitive is just making a huge mess out of nothing. They're different. I remember renting an apartment for a month with a bunch of Asians and an American, and it honestly feels like I'm walking on eggshells everytime I'm near him. Also also, I think, one of the reasons why Americans are overly sensitive has something to do with it being a first world country. I- I'd like to elaborate on this, I don't want to invalidate anything or offend anyone here, so I'm just gonna put it this way, in a lot of Asian countries, mostly 3rd world countries, we have a lot of issues involving our own survivability. Inflation hits poor people like a truck. Rich people are affected too, but they don't feel it as much as poor people does. We are so pre occupied with these issues because we need to it to survive. We pay no mind to emotional issues (which is a bad thing) because there are other things that needs to be prioritized. Survival > Emotional well being. I think 1st world countries aren't like that. I COULD BE WRONG. But that's just from my perspective. You are correct. In the end, it's all about people are just young. I just think things are getting worse as generations go by. Idk. I can't really know for sure. I haven't lived to see 3 younger generations. Haha. I still feel like I'm in a younger generation despite being in my late-ish 20s. Lol. Good video. Well thought out. I'd check out everglowup's vid after this. Thanks for making this. Y'all are so brave for making vids like this. I could never. 😭 Edit: forgot to add, as someone who has been in a debate club throughout my highschool life, ad hominem attacks are just vile. People who attack the person itself rather than the argument are disgusting people. Like, ya got nothing of value to say, just shut it. Lol. Also, woke = what I am rn. It's 5am, i just woke up. That's what woke is. Lol.
Yeah cancel culture is an interesting thing to me! Part of me feels like it’s just “your actions have consequences” but tenfold because it’s on the Internet, but as you said, the inclusion of the Internet in this practice makes it a lot more difficult to deal with. The consequences are often blown out of proportion, as nobody has control over how much an individual is punished by the online community. It’s guaranteed to always go way too far 😭
I don‘t think that the reason why americans are so sensitive, because they they are a 1st world coutry. People from other 1st world coutry don‘t really act like that. I think the reason why americans are so sensitive is, because they have right now an identity crisis. For a long time they were the most powerfull and influencial country in this world and amercans were toke a lot of pride in this. But now they are realising that a many people from other coutrys hate americans, because of their past action and how pridefull they were. And on top of that, tihis nation is falling apart.
the problem i've found with a lot with american online is that their oversensitivity only servers them and there's a huge lack of empathy. I've seen a lot of americans being extremely hurtful while being super sinsitive over their own views. So I do belive that over sensitivity is a problem, because it often violates other peoples limits in order to get your point across. I don't think sensitivity needs an adverb to be a good quality
Im a sensitive American child from two emotionally stunted/unavailable immigrants. Ive heard the “youre too sensitive” comment in many scenarios my entire life and imo, a lot of people arent sensitive enough. I think thats why people INTERNATIONALLY keep recreating similar human rights issues and other problems that have already happened. Its less that were sensitive and more “being aware” is important so therefore we should *be aware*. were taught that caring and/or being “sensitive” is a bad thing. It took me a v long time to learn that apathy is not “cool” or healthy bc things supposedly roll off my back. Objectively, there are somethings people should not say or do because it causes harm, or j simply some people j dont like it. Its like meeting someone new; you dont typically go in for a hug with a stranger. You dont tell an inside joke between your years long friends to a stranger either. Its simple boundaries. We should hold ourselves and others in check. Funnily enough, i feel like boundaries, at least especially for a lot of BIPOC and/or immigrants, “boundaries” are a *new thing* were suddenly teaching people to have. Things still hurt, there is interconnected history w everything and there are mistakes we objectively should not make anymore, even though we are and are currently watching those “mistakes” happen in real time. At the end of the day, apathy is generational trauma and/or lack of heart. Frankly, this world doesnt have a lot of heart. Its easier not to care than to care tm, but bridges and relationships are not sustained w apathy.
As someone who's been a teen on tumblr during its heyday I kind of agree. I've been part of similar things Gen Z & Alpha are accused of in different contexts and the way tumblr was cut off (a little more, at least) from your online life gave me the space to grow up, reassess my beliefs and learn more to do better. That's not necessarily a generational thing and it's kind of sad that younger people aren't being given the same grace to fine-tune their beliefs and opinions without immediately being accused of ruining society. I will also say, as a non-American, that I think my personal issue with the way things are often handled is that with the prevalence of English as an international language and the USA being a cornerstone of entertainment (whether we like it or not) I think a lot of Americans online kind of expect that everyone else's idea of sensitivity overlaps with theirs, and that's not always true or fair. I've definitely been judgemental towards Americans in frustration over how it feels like only American social justice values are used as a reference point 😅The truth of it though is that this kind of entitlement isn't exclusive to Americans, just like blowing issues in KPop out of proportion isn't exclusive to Gen Z or Alpha.
You know what this makes me think about? Recently a lot of video essays about the loss of an alward teen phase, a third place or even the teen pop idol like the disney stars have been showing up on my feed. And I think there is kind of a parallel here especially with your point about tumblr. We need this safe space to be akward Teenagers that wont get thrown into your face if you evolve your opinion. You cant do that on kpop yt or twt. In any argument that gets thrown into the Argument if you ever said anything different before or anything that could be used to show you are a hypocrite. People get attacted for changing their mind on a song. So that does show these younger kids that having your point and commiting to it and not questioning or changing opinion based on new information is the thing to do even when its not the right thing.
That’s a really good point! The nature of online interactions makes it so young people feel like they can’t change their mind or idea on an issue, even if they wanted to, to avoid looking weak or misinformed. It’s unfortunate that people aren’t given the lenience or patience to develop their own viewpoints over time
Another awesome video, Choujimi! Firstly, I really respect your honesty and I agree with you on the points you bring up. I also think it's important to note that young people are indeed young. They have a lot to learn, but I think we all do. Like knowing my nieces are so young and having iPads is concerning. But, that does not negate my agreements with you. As for Everglow-Up, I do really appreciate her perspectives. She's honestly one of my favorite K-Tubers, but I also am disagreeing with her more often. Though, that's not a personal attack on her character, at all. I think people can disagree and still be able to get along with each other, in my opinion. As for the "apology tour"... Well, I don't want to get too deep into it, but in my last two to three semesters of college learning history, particularly American history (as an American, myself lol), I felt it. I felt myself being so apologetic over basically everything I learned, but also simultaneously frustrated that so much of what I learned in those college history courses was either left out completely or censored in my early school years. So, yea, the apology tour is a real thing. And, the whole "You either die a hero, you live long enough to see yourself become a villain" quote... All I can say is, Choujimi, with your positivity, and the warmth you bring, you're like "a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a dark knight...". (Sorry, lol, I had to). Great work, as always, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your content. :) Stay safe and have a great rest of your week - Skye.
i do agree everything like everything has a exception like you talked about certain cases like liz’s weight gain wasn’t a problem but it could have been history plays a part in a lot of ways people behave of a country like certain things like how we think is how our history played like the white skin obsession and million other traditions as well and trauma is something everyone had and it’s just that genZ had more means of expressing themselves but sometimes it feels like they do so just for attention which can be problematic but yeah other than that it better to say it then keep it bottled up sorry for the rant loved the video idk what i shared 😂💗💗
That’s a good point - we really will never know the behavior of the managing teams behind the idols, so Kitsch could’ve very well been some kind of punishment in the end. The problem with never knowing the answers is that we’ll always be stuck with one piece of the issue, and we can’t ever come to a definitive conclusion without context we’ll never know about… That’s why I don’t know if discussing social issues via kpop is ever going to be truly effective
@@choujimi yeah agreed discussing kpop social issues via kpop can work but it’s just everyone might just view it from a different lens and perspective it i can be interesting what social commentary it can bring to the table also for kitsch as matpat said that’s just a theory a kpop theory 🫠💗
in my opinion, the problem definitely lies with education. The kids are just not thought how to set boundaries and adult are not doing anything to help. the kids can't learn how to adapt well in society if they haven't had a role model to help them with it. I also hope like what you said that everything will be okay, but it is only with adult helping these children that things will get better
It seems to me as a millennial that it doesn't matter what generation you are from. There is always tension between young people and their elders. Mostly because young folks think they know everything, and older folks also think they know everything. Young people don't want to learn from older people's experience, and older people don't want to listen to younger people's new ideas.
As I enter my late 20s, I have found that learning to navigate and tolerate some ideological differences within your community is such an important part of growing up. This is even more difficult when those differences affect your most salient social and political beliefs. I work in public policy where I my allies often have radically opposing views on everything save for the issue area that brought us together. These coalitions of "strange bedfellows" have made me less mean towards conservatives in a way that I would have thought impossible 8-10 years ago when I was first becoming political aware. This is not the same as working in door-to-door sales with conservative people (which I also did in high school). Politics is our job and therefore we consciously choose to put our unrelated differences aside for a common political end. In many ways, the internet reduces the consequences of intolerance. In Kpop communities, this manifests in "woke" people being more punitive towards their more conservative peers. In American right wing communities, the MAGA/pro-Trump community conducts the same type of purity testing and social alienation. I believe that so much of this problem is people (1) learning to navigate tolerance, (2) escaping their IRL persecution, powerlessness, and traumas, and/or (3) cultural differences that us Americans want to forcefully bridge in other countries. That is not to say that I oppose criticizing conservative people and their ideas. Powerful conservative people/institutions cause myriad harms that I strongly oppose IRL. But that shouldn't also cause me to socially ostracize the powerless Trump voter who I met in a gaming Discord server. I would consider everglow-up a less extreme version of that latter group (harmless conservative), but that might be my American brain doing (3). I do think we, as people more likely to be labelled "woke" than be disparaging the ideology, need to be more patient and tolerant of conservative/insensitive views. This is inherently easier to me to prescribe to a 35 year old than it is to a 15 year old, which is why Gen Z gets the blame for woke intolerance.
love this, you are so eloquent with your words !! and i really appreciate your perspective + the fact that you framed it as a malleable thing; youre open to change and i already really respect you from the few videos of yours that ive watched 💞
Hi friend! Great job on making this video :))) I did watch egu's content for a good while (even some recent content of her) + have joined her discord server where I met so many amazing people and friends that I feel so grateful and appreciative for :>> I'll say this tho as a preface, I (21 Female ish from Canada) did watch egu's vid bout this topic and was left genuinely confused and even decided to ask my non kpop loving sis (who mind me is a year older than me) to help explain this. We ended up with the this conclusion: "what was the point of the video, why focus on gen z and alpha who are a part of west (aka America, etc 😂)? Teens and tweens already kinda lost a kinda tween phase means in life thanks to having boundless amounts of info online both good and bad. They also suffer a lot from hate from society cuz society just loves blaming them (yes I'm very ironic cuz we both count as that demographic of gen z but I digress) " I also felt like the fact that we developed critical thinking at 8 years old was definitely strange cuz I don't think kids would be thinking too hard to the point of actual critical thinking taking place lol Ah anywho my apologies. I like the point you mention bout teens shouting out their trauma, to me it shouldn't never be a crutch that expressing your trauma makes one weaker, in fact it makes you feel stronger :)) especially during your youth, every emotion you felt gets heightened by like 10 times so I feel that teens are still growing up and with society's expectations and shit, It's natural to feel like the world is against you at odds Thanks again hope you have a great week 💙💙
The thing is many US fans don't balance by realising Kpop is Asian culture. I'm not Korean. But many times I do realise those comments must not understand Asian culture.
My problem is that kpop is Korean so I feel like Americans need to take a little step back when it comes to all of their opinions, because at the end of the day K-pop’s main focus is the Korean public and they really don’t care much if something isn’t up to American social standards
I agree that Americans need to take a step back, but I believe it’s a bit too much of a generalization to say that “they don’t care if something is up to American standards,” as a significant amount of companies have shifted their focus to promoting internationally. From universal English captioning, to partnerships with western media companies and producer groups, it seems like companies are particularly sensitive to the international market in a lot of ways, no?
I know I’m late but this is just proving the videos point. Everyone not just west should be less toxic online. KPOP Is a music genre it’s only a toxic environment if you make it. Don’t want toxic kpop stuff only listen to the music. There should be a video saying “kpop isn’t that deep”
i mean the ipad kids i see are well behaved but there is not many people likke that. if they exist its bc there are multiple reasons but not as massive as tik tok says LOLOLOLOLO im glad i never got into tik tok i only hear about it and laugh at how ridiculous they make things in america when it really depends and hardly is true for me. If anything this talk is good bc the educational system in america has gotten so bad that finally people are finding out! I was born in the 90s and it was just as bad as its today its just got more attention now bc of the internet made it more widespread.
I'm sorry but I'm so distracted by you acting like Tumblr doesn't exist anymore. I know you offhand say well I guess it still exists but still is killing me. A better way to discuss this would be: Tumblr served as this kind of anonymous echo chamber before but now it's heavily populated by millennials and up and is not used by the younger gens. Whenever a poll goes around Tumblr asking the age of the userbase it's pretty much 20+ and people who've been on the site forever. Also, I hate to tell you but I still see kpop people on Tumblr. The more toxic side of it just is occupying different social spaces online.
Yeah, I apologize and should’ve been more careful about explaining this… I did not realize people rode so hard for tumblr I meant to say that while tumblr and kpop tumblr communities still exist, they don’t function in the same way they used to that were useful to young people developing their world views. Like any other social media website today, it’s become more of an open-space echochamber that shares itself with other online communities - no disrespect meant to the denizens of tumblr
While Ill agree that America fighting its proxy war vs Communism on the Korean peninsula was bad for all Koreans there is one reality that's worth remembering. If we hadn't done that the entirety of Korea would be North Korea today-- there would be no k-pop, it would simply never have happened.
I love how you are contradicting yourself in the beginning of the you said that you are going to delete comments that you think are weird but you are allowing hate comments in the comment section and replying to people calling you out… don’t you think that’s weird for yourself to do?
Hello again - I sincerely apologize if I’ve upset you in some way. That wasn’t my intention with this video, and I want to let you know that I have deleted overly hateful comments from here. There are some comments that are constructive towards everglow-up and how she approaches making an argument, but nothing that outright attacks her character or her as a person has been left up to what I can see. Also… why is it a bad thing that I’m replying to people calling me out? I said in the video I was willing to have my mind changed on this, yet the “call out”didn’t give any constructive feedback for me to work with. I don’t know what’s being asked of me here
While watching your video, I couldn't help but to get stuck on the question of "What is woke?" I have used this word a lot in recent videos, but if I'm being honest, I do hate the word quite I bit lol. Personally, I think virtue signaling is a better term but it's way too long, so I often default to "woke" a lot. However, the question is definitely one that needs to be answered so I think it's time I answer that question (at least from my own perspective). I think one of the reasons I haven't explained the meaning in the past, is because it's a ideology that was ingrained within the socio-political sphere of this country ever since the civil rights movement, and I don't want to sound super political or state any of my political opinions on my channel, but now I think there is a way I can explain it without saying anything too politically charged. Your video has given me a motivation to talk about it in a little more depth. I hope to shed some light on this in the very near future. As always, very well thought out and good explanations. Thank you for making this video Chouj. 🫡🙏
I’ll be interested to hear what you have to say! Someone else in the comments brought this up, how the word “woke” has kind of been stripped of its original meaning and transformed into something with a much more negative connotation. It was something that I didn’t consider when making this video, and definitely makes me think more about how (and why) it’s used today in all its ambiguity
@@choujimi Yes, thats very true. That word has definitely been used as an “Uno reverse card” on people who are virtue signaling and viewing certain groups of people one way, when everyone in said group is not the same. That’s the way I’ve been using it, but I admit , I get a little frustrated hearing the word woke these days and even saying the word woke lol. The original intention of the word woke was to call out racial discrimination, prejudice, and injustices within American society, but now it’s used to call out virtue signalers who believe themselves to be more morally superior then others and who hold others to a standard they don’t hold themselves to in real life. While, some of them do actually hold themselves to that standard, I find a lot of their beliefs and views to be unfair towards others, and if you disagree with them, you’re in danger of being labeled as an enemy, ist, phob, problematic, sick, etc. All for the sake of silencing others who don’t agree with the echo chamber you talked about, Which is why I really love the comment you made about interacting with people who may not have the same view as you because every opportunity is a learning opportunity on both sides. There’s not a lot of people that have the heart to understand the plight of both sides of an argument like you do. I don’t know if you realize how rare a thing that is in today’s time. The more I dive into K-tube, the more I start to see that, so I appreciate your transparency. It’s really tricky to explain this whole woke thing lol but I’ll best foot forward. Sorry for the long reply lol
@@moonlight_antonioI agree, but just clarification, woke nowadays is usually used in a totally opposing. It’s now nothing but a political, conservative, buzzword when describing “stupid” left-ideologies. It’s like the 4th version of the definition of woke.
Well… this video has aged like milk… I’m going back and forth on whether or not to leave it up, but I want to reinforce that it’s fine to have opposing opinions and viewpoints *SO LONG AS they aren’t damaging.*
When your viewpoints border on the violently ignorant, enough to be indifferent about violence against innocent groups of people who have lost all autonomy, that poses a serious problem. I lose all willingness to want to hear you out.
So glad to see this note.
bby ur whole channel aged like milk
@@nogirlIonlyusevenmothe heart react is sending me 😭😭😭
This is not a knock on any of your points, I just had to take a moment to say that it's so sad how another AAVE term (woke) has been completely watered down into something that's not only useless but tends to have a negative connotation. This was a word used by the Black community to celebrate how aware one was of the current socio-political issues (especially with systemic oppression of black people). I remember it putting an instant smile on people's faces when they were declared 'woke'. And now is used to describe when one is hypersensitive about these issues. People immediately get defensive when they're called woke. It really isn't fair.
This 💯.. this is actually the first way I’ve learned the term woke (besides its literal meaning lol) and it’s truly disappointing the way the term is used now..
Fwiw, everglow-up is Black. 🙃
@@nublock5000 well just because someone is black doesn’t mean they automatically know what a term means.
Not to mention she’s not even of the AA diaspora, she’s Zimbabwean if I’m not mistaken. So that doesn’t really mean anything.
@@bbi2.052 Sounds like tone policing but okay.
@@nublock5000 ummm…ok? That doesn’t even make sense.. but wtv
I think when I started my Ktube channel I had a very narcissistic perspective with my takes and how I presented them. When I first started gaining traction and received varying levels of backlash on different videos, my initial reaction was one of vitriol and anger. "Why do these people disagree with my POV? How can they be this foolish?" sort of thoughts. But overtime I started to realize how many young impressionable fans are present within the online space, and there were most likely a fair amount of young stans who saw my videos and were angry because it went against their views on a specific situation. Like take my iconic Aespa video, were some of those angry stans maybe, misguided in their anger? Maybe, but plenty were probably young stans who have yet to develop different perspectives on a song or maybe their favorite group, and the longer I thought about it the less angry I became, because in maybe some different universe that could've been me leaving that hate comment because I found the video to be an attack on my views.
So when I see some issue that is totally overblown, or one that can be defined as "Gen Z being sensitive", I take more time to not only think about the situation and it's impact on others, but also attempt to see the other person's POV. Like the Hyuna situation, I saw many say that she "never stood for empowerment and you're just projecting your ideals onto idols" and while that can be true. I had easily 4 or 5 dozen fans tell me how she stood for empowerment for them personally, how they drew meaning out of her music and why her actions went against that. Are those people, wrong because Hyuna herself never meant for that to be her impact? I don't think so, I think those people have the right to be disappointed. It's important to take our time with sensitive topics and see all angles, instead of quickly formulating opinions or rushing to conclusions because that's just how we see the world.
A lot of immature kpop stans who said some things they don't mean online, will reflect 5 or 6 years down the road and think to themselves, "why was I like that?", and I think that's just a natural step in being a human.
I definitely think the key is removing yourself from a situation enough to be able to evaluate all sides of an issue. That’s easier said than done, and is difficult when applied to kpop, where often more than half of the issue is unavailable via companies’ non-disclosure policies.
Hyuna is a bit of a unique situation to me, where I believe more information was available than what people were willing to search for and worth with. It either comes from ignorance, or just an immediate dismissal of her as an individual over what she has done. It’s such a tricky thing to navigate, because I can’t really blame people for not wanting to give her any sort of lenience over what happened
@@choujimi so contradiction was something you brought up in your video but here you are contradicting yourself . First of all this is a hate comment this big TH-camr just called another Ktuber immature which is against everything you preached in your video . Next time look in the mirror before you come for everglow-up sir .
@@KevinMullings-j2j Taejiu is not calling everglow-up immature here, maybe read it again?
It’s also not inherently hateful to see someone as immature in their views. I don’t perceive it as hateful, could you tell me why you do?
Im on the younger half of gen z and i don’t go on TikTok much anymore. Whenever I go on I see some weird BS abt an idol and it just ruins my mood.
same
same
I left tiktok bc moa and stay kept telling each other to kys
I agree with you :)
same
I truly respect everglow-up as a creator, but i feel like sometimes she just wants to be "edgy", not in a bad way, but i think she wants to cause a reaction.
The problem is that people hate whenever someone points out an issue, as it makes people think, and it feels like an attack on the thing they enjoy. Usually people just say its woke because its something kinda progressive that they disagree with.
The american point i kind of agree with. Not individual Americans, but the way American culture leans on hyper awarness and obsession. Which leads to some things she mentioned.
However, pointing fingers at young people who are just growing up, amd had their ideals influenced by the older generation seems silly to me. The older generations always have that superiority complex
“New Kpop fans need something like tumblr”
K-pop tumblr is alive and well!! It’s my main source of K-pop content behind yt :) if you have never been on K-pop tumblr, I encourage it, it’s actually great
Yeah definitely! I feel bad about making it seem like Tumblr isn’t a thing anymore, I was more trying to express that the “older” function of Tumblr for young people in general was that it was a space where they could bounce social viewpoints off of each other without much of a consequence in the grand scheme of social media
Nowadays, and as you said, Tumblr seems to be more of a community-focused space rather than an echochamber as it used to be. I think the absence of that echochamber function is what has caused the community of kpop at large to suffer, as social issues are brought up across every social media platform for most members of the kpop community to be able to see
a lot of these ‘issues’ that are discussed in your and Everglow-up’s videos are quite ambiguous and complex, Gen Z and Gen Alpha are growing up, a lot of these people are children, literal children! I think it’s unfair to blame them on things as they are still growing up, their ‘troubles’ are not new (maybe expect for growing up on the internet but that’s up for debate), however it is being taken in an extreme, they’re ‘doomed’ and i think that’s even more harmful for them rather than their ‘troubles’, things are definitely being exasperated by the older generations probably because of their fear of the rapid change that is happening in society right now
With the ‘iPad kids’ thing, I think children are being handed technology and social media dangerously young, and are only being chastised for being immature on these platforms when it is in line with their age, this will have an effect and will consequences wether good or bad, whatever we do now is irreversible though in the future and will have an effect on these people
my bad if this does not seem in line with your video or misses the point completely, I have a lot of thoughts about this, I could go on for a long time about these topics as it is something that’s really engaging and interesting to me! great video, keep it up!
oh and also not saying that children shall not be policed, children shall be properly and righteously treated by society, which unfortunately does not happen, before anyone comes for me lol
I agree - there’s a LOT more to this issue than I think anyone on ktube could ever cover comprehensively. Development in behavioral psychology research regarding the “iPad kids” phenomenon is still very much under progress, and will hopefully tell us more about these issues in the future -
In the end, I think it’s a matter of research rather than social problems, but as this problem regards society so much as we all now share the kpop community together, we can’t help but try and make it a social issue lol
@@choujimi yes definitely! it is a social topic in all its right as this does effect us in our every day lives, this should be talked about in all communities, especially the K-pop one. as we are greeted with new and younger fans every day it is only a matter of time before we see what the consequences of whatever the issues are effect this community, change will happen to our delight or dismay nevertheless lol
Something a lot of people in the general "is gen Z too sensitive" discussion seem to forget is that most of us in the generation either grew up in the pandemic or had just grown up when it started. In march 2020, I was 21 and had just started my first ever job and suddenly everything closed and meeting friends didn't feel safe. Being essentially "forced" into seeing the world through screens if you didn't want to somehow help spread covid does a lot more to the psyche than some of the holier than thou's like egu realize imo.
Kpop fan since 2005 here. I'm a 90s born person. I don't think it has to do with a certain generation needing to be a scapegoat at all. The problem moreso lies with the American culture and mannerisms that since the massive adding of American audiences to the kpop fandom, has significantly caused for a mass toxicity we've never seen before prior in kpop without them. And I find it hard to even say, because some of my good friends are American and we're all doing okay. It's not that they're toxic as a friend, from person to person. But the way the US consumes music and in general has this very loud form of entitlement on average (not all people!!!), is the problem itself. I def don't think we should put this on "Oh it's just young people." We had young people throughout 2005 to 2024 and I don't think the majority of them were ever super noisy or problematic. We were just vibin til the pandemic hit and BTS was picked up by the US, thus suddenly exposing masses of US audiences to the kpop music market and THEN creating a social nuclear field.. that says a lot. Btw if you're a nice American, who doesn't do crazy things in kpop: Bless you, you are welcome. We need you!
This is such a good point. I'm American and have been listening to kpop since 2010. Back then, you were made fun of for liking K-pop. Even though BTS was gaining traction since 2017, the fandom was still very niche, and most of us were nerds and definitely not the "cool kids". Comparing ARMY concert vlogs from 2017 to now there is definitely more fanfare in how we dress and carry ourselves. I started noticing this during the 2019 tour. Tiktok started gaining traction in the states in September 2018. This lines up with the US dates for the LY tour and explains the growing need to be dressed up for these concerts that wasn't really there in BTS' earlier tours (of course there are a lot of factors that go into this). Then the pandemic hit, and Dynamite exposed the general public to BTS and K-pop. Now it is seen as the it thing to like. Just like how bc of Taylor Swift, the Cheifs have a lot of bandwagon fans. Fans that are in it as if it were a status symbol. Now, K-pop has the status as cool. This is good for K-pop, but bad for fans that rather not see the toxic side of fandoms. Real fans like kpop for the music and artistry that goes into it, while fake fans cling on to what is popular just for popularity sakes. At the end of the day social media seems to thrive on toxicity and community outrage.
Also, I think as international fans, we were kind of out of the loop on the toxicity of Korean kpop community. It was like being in our own bubble. There was definitely toxicity back then and even in the years before the pandemic (BTS ARMY really documented the toxicity that some other fandoms dished out to us and even BTS and that all happened prepandemic), but it did not blow up on social media. So it could also be the rise of social media that gives voice to toxicity in general instead of just an uptick in toxicity. Plus the pandemic really erased some people's ability to show respect to others. I think this extends worldwide though. I've seen many mean comment towards American kpop fans bc of how Americans are viewed. Everytime a tour is announced or an American fan wishes for a city close to them, hate rains down. I've also seen a lot of mean tweets from Americans or racist tweets from Brazilians or Koreans (the list goes own). Some parts of kpop social media is such a cesspool. A lot of people have a warped ego and Id that social media gives a platform to that wasn't really there ten years ago. I've even seen videos talking about this for western artists or even communitiessuch as book tok or the knitting community. It's really mind boggling.
@@bluesidecollection uhhhh no?? Not rly. bts initially exploded since late 2016/2017 onwards and had the biggest fandom from then on. thats why they won the top social artist at the bbmas with like a 90% margin in votings continuing to do so in 2018 and beyond, winning vmas, pcas, tcas other awards which required voting in some capacity (ofc getting their korean, uk, japan etc etc awards too) and army has always been loud and proud of BTS.
Thats how fans spread the word about them over the years, we had armys making flyers to give out prior to a cb release back then and make interesting pamphlets/posters that would get put up all over different cities to hype up the release.
Like majority of army has never given a fkc about others and what they think is "cool" or "in" this is why to this day you will have a tweet with thousands of likes and retweets about kpop stans being embarrassed to say they listen to kpop or xyz group/artist and have the replies and quotes agree with them😭 meanwhile an army is quoting that same tweet being like "this could never be me with bts" or something of the sort and the army quote gets 20k+ likes because its simply the truth
also while i do see a correlation with tiktok being in the rise 2018/2019 when they had their LY tour i wouldn't be so quick to pin people dressing up more because of it as you said there r a lot of factors and a couple of them could be:
- the fans simply have been growing up with bts, the fans r older so they know themselves more as people/know how to dress for big social event like be it a concert, festival, seminars etc etc/having more disposable income because a lot of people started working or were working for some time having full time or part time jobs
- BTS tours became more of an EVENT add in their tours growing larger and larger in scale to the stadium tours they do now, that all started in 2019 too. There r some fans that go to multiple stops but for majority its just that ONE (maybeee 2) shows they get the chance to go to and they wont be seeing the guys until they come back and do another one, with no guarantee they could go see BTS again because whewww getting your hands on their tickets is impossible.
So the fans want to make the most of it dress crazy, experiment with their outfit makeup hair nails, do one of the guys looks from an mv or go with a silly costume like those inflatable dinosaur ones lol
BTS were already massive before the pandemic and dynamite (ofc all that made them bigger not denying that) but they had sold out stadium shows wherever they went, 3 consecutive bb200 #1s, a top #10 hit with multiple other entries on hot100, IFTP (i think thats the acronym hahaa) best selling albums worldwide, breaking 30-40 year old records, UN speech, youngest recipients awarded the order of cultural merit for spreading korean language and culture worldwide and many more all prior to their second explosion that took place post 2020.
All that to say they already brought massive massive audiences and new stans to kpop and its really crazy to think about because bts is like 10 times bigger now than they were back in 2017-2019 yet they unintentionally did so much free promo to their home country and the kpop industry just by existing. Mannn they're so crazy like they the goats fr fr 😵💫😌😌☝️
Your last paragraph so true!! Its not that there is an uptick of toxicity but just social media is more present in peoples lives so we just see it more and r more aware of it now, but it has always been there. Like this time we r living in right now is the first time in history people from all corners of the world get to interact, talk, video chat with others on the other side of the world in real time. See and read about things we probably would have never known had it not been for the internet and social platforms so there is information overload, sensory overload add in a lot of these algorithms favoring negative posts/tweets/tiktoks that spread quicker than a post with the right information for example too and its just fkcd all around. There's echo chambers, misinformation, too much too much just too much everywhere that some people end up spiraling from all of it. AND what you said about people never recalibrating correctly because of the pandemic to where people have that level of respect that was always present but now js missing not only in the US but other countries as well like people rly became a$$holes after going through a global crisis 😭😭💀💀 like understandable on one hand but on the other man we rly lost BAD my god
Soo yeah by this point idk where i am going with this fjdjdks imma stop typing this was enough for today 😭😭😭😩😩
I feel like you're romanticizing the past. There absolutely were controversies and fan wars before 2020.
Toxic fans have existed in Kpop since before there were light sticks. Since I became a fan maybe 5 years ago, I've learned about a lot of problems with Kpop fans going back to the days of H.O.T. when there was a huge brawl between 2 fandoms. So, I don't think this is a problem with American fans.
Tbh I don't really watch everglowup anymore, since she once opened a video with a line that had a transphobic undertone stating that it was absurd that men could act like women or 'pretend' to be women
Oh ? Are talking about that one video of that trans woman talking about how she was biological female 💀
@@valtaep1ece796 hmm no, i don't know what you're referring to but the everglowup video (if I remember correctly) was a stage presence analysis video, and she opened it up with analogies of absurd things that people say and do, one of which is men 'thinking they could pretend to be women' or something of the sort, which I personally felt uncomfortable with as it seemed clear she was alluding to trans women
@@beccabowen4292basic biology isn’t phobic btw
@@valtaep1ece796 please educate yourself if you're not open to having a constructive discussion about this!
I definitely got that too, man 😕 even in the video this one is responding to, the language she used was quite…problematic and I cant help but see how it would leak over to people and their identities if she were confronted w the conversation. She brought up cultural appropriation as an example and it felt like a “read between the lines” kind of statement 💀
Everglow-up did a good job on that video and u did a good job on this video. I genuinely agree with everglow-up and even tho I am young(13). I really do think young people are running Kpop and the internet because they just don't understand how things work in the real world and I don't like it because they give young people a bad and stupid presence online and I hope they would learn in the future
not an attack or anything but i think the main issue of your statement is that so many children are being given unlimited access to social media, which then leads to children/early teens online being immature mostly in line with their age about certain things, then this gets taken out of proportion with the rest of K-pop community as it gains more traction. I think the bad/stupid presence online of young people is mostly due to; a - society having the mentality of expecting 12 year olds to go to 21 overnight, b - young children being handed technology and social media at a dangerously young age
they may never learn in the future as their perspective on the world is skewed from social media, they may do and be hit with the reality of their actions
I think the issue of young people on social media is a very complex matter, we do not fully know the consequences yet, however whatever we do now is going to be irreversible in the future
again no hard feelings or an attack i just have some thoughts of my own towards your statement! you do seem very thoughtful with your opinions and I do partially agree with you, I hope you have a good day :)
I genuinely do think that most, there will always be exceptions would grow out of it gen z at least, gen alpha is suspicious as they are starting out from a young age but if the adults in their life take action of wouldn't be that bad.
In what I've noticed since I always just love to observe the the world and how people behave, most teenagers my age and above while immature are not stupid and I really do think most of us would grow out of it
Me and a couple of my friends want to start a podcast called the hypocritical podcast because we as we are entering our teenage years know want to talk about serious issues in an environment where people would not just dismiss our words and opinions and genuinely listen and come up with more points for the argument. and since we spent our whole lunch period last.Friday yelling and ranting about our parents and the most immature way we have ever acted in a while, but we are still serious about our podcast. This is my biggest example of gen z can and most will grow up even if we stay sassy little monster forever we will mature over time
But thanks for replying you made a really good point I hadn't thought about most will grow up but there will be the exceptions who wouldn't want to accept reality and thrive on tic tok.
Oh God not the Tumblr comparasions, so that's why a Lot of Kpop stans have 'I'm not like the other Girls' type of energy 😦
Woke, as a negative term, simply refers to a cultural climate of social activism that is regarded as exaggerated (whether the causes as such are valid depends on your politic). This difference with Gen Z and Alpha is that they are not only unduly influenced by social media, but social media in turn gives young people a power they never had before - and they don't always use it wisely.
And no, it's not always good to have differing opinions - if your opinions aren't based on facts and you won't change them even when the facts are corrected, that's detrimental to public discourse. An example of your own: If with "Pilgrims" you mean the American "Pilgrim fathers" that came to the USA - this was in 1620, and people were long able to write then, education was just not very widespread, if someone couldn't it wasn't because the species homo sapiens wasn't evolved enough to have the requisite fine motor skills.
Whether "sensitivity" is a good thing depends on what people are sensitive about - if it just regards something that is relevant for yourself, it can be narcissism, and there are studies that show that this has actually increased.
i agree with this video! it is important to recognize all of the stances, situations and nuances that exist alongside this discussion.
that being said, to add a bit to the discussion myself: the conversation about these two generations being destined to fail almost completely dismisses their ability to become proper members of society. i think it should be noted that every generation that came before gen z & alpha all faced the same flack and belief that they were some “evil” group of individuals who would go on to ruin our world as we know it… and that never happened (depending on who you ask buuuut that’s another conversation lol). i think, similarly to what you touched on, each generation brings in change and differences as they develop alongside the ever changing world we live in and that thought scares older generations, whether they are conscious of it or not. humans are quick to dismiss and not react kindly to things they are not familiar with as they are confused by what exactly it is. i think gen z and gen alpha are too early in their societal participation to discern whether or not they are “acceptable” members of society. i do believe that there are negative aspects that are exclusive to these two generations, no doubt, but majority of them are children we are talking about. and who exactly are these children modeling after..? the internet has some influence of course, but then again, that behavior still goes back to those who came before them. i think the only way to make an “ideal” generation develop would require previous generations to be more conscious of their actions because as you said, adults are just as capable of behaving in an unfavorable manner.
undoubtedly, when the next generation begins, we will have this same conversation again. when that happens i just think people need to ask themselves what exactly they plan on doing to change the trajectory of these children if they’re such nuisances and lack skills they deem relevant or acceptable. because sitting and waiting on the downfall of those who are supposed to be our future instead of uplifting them is both unproductive and incredibly sad.
within reason, gen z and alpha need to be given a proper chance. everything has positives and negatives and those developing right now are absolutely no different.
I definitely agree! I see a lot of ethical conversations brought up around the behaviors of a class of 5-year-olds, and it seems to me like that is way too early of an age to be at all definitive of what the future of our society will be like. I think we need to give it more time, especially with behavioral psychology research, and come to a conclusion later on to see if it really is as widespread as people are worried about
@@choujimi you're right! but at the same time, i can't help but wonder. even with extensive research, would we be able to conclude this discussion with something that both satisfies the demographic in question and prescribes a reason why __ number of factors exist, occur, and have shaped the future society that is universal? there's really so much to consider, and with time and change, there's really no concrete way of knowing... not to prolong this conversation, just some food for thought
This was such a refreshing video and earned a sub! I appreciated your dicussion on gaining social awarness for global injustices. All too often, that kind of social growth is belittled instead of encouraged so I want to give you props for that. We are watching America support another genocide, and I hope everyone can deconstruct their biaes as you have.
On egu...I really admire egu's outspokeness and expertise. I admired her stances on defending Wonyoung and her choice to not promote newjeans cuz they're underaged, but I unfortunately am steering away from her content. As an adult enby, some of egu's gender comments have made me side eye her. And her vid on gen alpha really just sounded like the same stuff boomers said about millennials. I'm entering my late 20's and have been into kpop for over a decade: without fail--younger stans get blamed for ruining kpop. The reasons change, now its for being too woke...but honestly...fans aren't woke--not really. Fans will excuse racism, transphobia, sexism--as long as its for their faves, and that isnt something that woke people do. As other comments have said, wokeness comes from the black community and it is when a person "wakes up" to the racial and social inequalites around them. Wokeness isnt the problem--its fan culture in a media that encourages parasocial consumption. Fans will find ANY reason to argue their fave is being mistreated, and now that we have kpop idols from different nationalites--they found a new angle. None of this is new, because being a child or a teen is not new. There is room for discussion around it. Overall, wokeness, feminism, and anti-racist thought has had a positve impact on the community. We are seeing greater lenency towards dating, awarness around blackface and slurs, more kpop idols of different nationalites, and so on. Yes, that comes with growing pains, but its worth it. I understand that she has to directly deal with angry child fans in a way that I dont, but I am leaning away from her content.
Edit: holy fuck I just saw the stuff about Palestine!
it's not even just over sensitivity it's also self entitlement
Honestly, I don't think Americans are more sensitive. Like, your median American doesn't think about Korea at all. But Americans who care about Kpop are a different subset that is more open to caring about foreign cultures.
Meanwhile, if you're living in East or South East Asia, Kpop is kind of a default. So you're getting a more representative sample.
This would explain some behavior difference trends without being an overarching thesis about how America is so different.
I think an important thing people forget about young Americans, even myself as an older member of gen Z, is that our view of education has probably been warped in ways we won't fully understand for a long time... because of- and I know this is heavy- gun violence, specifically at schools. We are told we need to spend so much time and energy and effort somewhere we feel increasingly unsafe. Millennials had 9/11, yes. And, being from that area, I know it was awful, even if I don't remember the day itself. But young Americans today are having constant drills in case of someone coming to the place they go almost every day with an automatic weapon. It only makes sense that kids today are harping on education and sensitive topics because I imagine we're all pretty desperate to think of and be engrossed in something other than fear. Granted, online learning during quarantine has also probably affected the way kids feel about this, but I think the psychology of it all is important to take into consideration. Young Americans are desperate to take a walk in others' shoes to escape the way their own make them feel.
Omg that's such a good point nayeonchantix!
A lot of societal pressure cuz of various other acts of violence (such as gun violence as you mentioned and parents fighting as my example) can also affect even the littlest of people.
I would also like to add the pressure from peers (such as the general notion of parents setting sky high expectations for their kids to get good grades to become doctors or lawyers to gain that good $$$, etc) can definitely take a toll on a child and their way of finding their identity. It's adds onto the many ways living as a teen can be so tough not just in current day but for all eras of life so far
I'm born in the 90s. I don't want to sound like "aaaah, these young people are ruining everything these days" BUT I don't think this is just older people looking for something to blame. While the older generations are capable of acting like hypocritical a-holes, I think it's a lot more common for younger people to act this way. Back in the day, we don't have this "cancel culture" thing nor issues that blow waaaaaay out of proportion, only to get contradicted/forgotten the next week.
I think this comes down to the fact that, social media and technology in general are being introduced to people a lot younger than before. I see 5 y.o. having phones and ipads nowadays. Before we know it, they'll be interacting with the bad tomatoes of the older generation.
They're younger, so whenever they get exposed to any negativitiy, they think it's a huge deal. Older people are generally immune to this. I remember being young and only thinking about toys, and feeling like those toys are the only things that matter in the whooole world. That's exactly what's happening nowadays, but instead of toys, it's social issues. Well, I think I blew that out of proportion 😂 but you get what I mean. It's meant to be hyperbolic.
Also, "being sensitive and aware of the problems of the people around you", we call that compassion. Being aware AND acting on it is being compassionate. To me, being overly-sensitive is just making a huge mess out of nothing. They're different. I remember renting an apartment for a month with a bunch of Asians and an American, and it honestly feels like I'm walking on eggshells everytime I'm near him.
Also also, I think, one of the reasons why Americans are overly sensitive has something to do with it being a first world country. I- I'd like to elaborate on this, I don't want to invalidate anything or offend anyone here, so I'm just gonna put it this way, in a lot of Asian countries, mostly 3rd world countries, we have a lot of issues involving our own survivability. Inflation hits poor people like a truck. Rich people are affected too, but they don't feel it as much as poor people does. We are so pre occupied with these issues because we need to it to survive. We pay no mind to emotional issues (which is a bad thing) because there are other things that needs to be prioritized. Survival > Emotional well being. I think 1st world countries aren't like that. I COULD BE WRONG. But that's just from my perspective.
You are correct. In the end, it's all about people are just young. I just think things are getting worse as generations go by. Idk. I can't really know for sure. I haven't lived to see 3 younger generations. Haha. I still feel like I'm in a younger generation despite being in my late-ish 20s. Lol.
Good video. Well thought out. I'd check out everglowup's vid after this. Thanks for making this. Y'all are so brave for making vids like this. I could never. 😭
Edit: forgot to add, as someone who has been in a debate club throughout my highschool life, ad hominem attacks are just vile. People who attack the person itself rather than the argument are disgusting people. Like, ya got nothing of value to say, just shut it. Lol.
Also, woke = what I am rn. It's 5am, i just woke up. That's what woke is. Lol.
Yeah cancel culture is an interesting thing to me! Part of me feels like it’s just “your actions have consequences” but tenfold because it’s on the Internet, but as you said, the inclusion of the Internet in this practice makes it a lot more difficult to deal with. The consequences are often blown out of proportion, as nobody has control over how much an individual is punished by the online community. It’s guaranteed to always go way too far 😭
I don‘t think that the reason why americans are so sensitive, because they they are a 1st world coutry. People from other 1st world coutry don‘t really act like that. I think the reason why americans are so sensitive is, because they have right now an identity crisis. For a long time they were the most powerfull and influencial country in this world and amercans were toke a lot of pride in this. But now they are realising that a many people from other coutrys hate americans, because of their past action and how pridefull they were. And on top of that, tihis nation is falling apart.
the problem i've found with a lot with american online is that their oversensitivity only servers them and there's a huge lack of empathy. I've seen a lot of americans being extremely hurtful while being super sinsitive over their own views. So I do belive that over sensitivity is a problem, because it often violates other peoples limits in order to get your point across. I don't think sensitivity needs an adverb to be a good quality
Im a sensitive American child from two emotionally stunted/unavailable immigrants. Ive heard the “youre too sensitive” comment in many scenarios my entire life and imo, a lot of people arent sensitive enough.
I think thats why people INTERNATIONALLY keep recreating similar human rights issues and other problems that have already happened. Its less that were sensitive and more “being aware” is important so therefore we should *be aware*. were taught that caring and/or being “sensitive” is a bad thing. It took me a v long time to learn that apathy is not “cool” or healthy bc things supposedly roll off my back.
Objectively, there are somethings people should not say or do because it causes harm, or j simply some people j dont like it. Its like meeting someone new; you dont typically go in for a hug with a stranger. You dont tell an inside joke between your years long friends to a stranger either. Its simple boundaries. We should hold ourselves and others in check. Funnily enough, i feel like boundaries, at least especially for a lot of BIPOC and/or immigrants, “boundaries” are a *new thing* were suddenly teaching people to have.
Things still hurt, there is interconnected history w everything and there are mistakes we objectively should not make anymore, even though we are and are currently watching those “mistakes” happen in real time.
At the end of the day, apathy is generational trauma and/or lack of heart. Frankly, this world doesnt have a lot of heart. Its easier not to care than to care tm, but bridges and relationships are not sustained w apathy.
As someone who's been a teen on tumblr during its heyday I kind of agree. I've been part of similar things Gen Z & Alpha are accused of in different contexts and the way tumblr was cut off (a little more, at least) from your online life gave me the space to grow up, reassess my beliefs and learn more to do better. That's not necessarily a generational thing and it's kind of sad that younger people aren't being given the same grace to fine-tune their beliefs and opinions without immediately being accused of ruining society.
I will also say, as a non-American, that I think my personal issue with the way things are often handled is that with the prevalence of English as an international language and the USA being a cornerstone of entertainment (whether we like it or not) I think a lot of Americans online kind of expect that everyone else's idea of sensitivity overlaps with theirs, and that's not always true or fair. I've definitely been judgemental towards Americans in frustration over how it feels like only American social justice values are used as a reference point 😅The truth of it though is that this kind of entitlement isn't exclusive to Americans, just like blowing issues in KPop out of proportion isn't exclusive to Gen Z or Alpha.
You know what this makes me think about? Recently a lot of video essays about the loss of an alward teen phase, a third place or even the teen pop idol like the disney stars have been showing up on my feed. And I think there is kind of a parallel here especially with your point about tumblr. We need this safe space to be akward Teenagers that wont get thrown into your face if you evolve your opinion. You cant do that on kpop yt or twt. In any argument that gets thrown into the Argument if you ever said anything different before or anything that could be used to show you are a hypocrite. People get attacted for changing their mind on a song. So that does show these younger kids that having your point and commiting to it and not questioning or changing opinion based on new information is the thing to do even when its not the right thing.
That’s a really good point! The nature of online interactions makes it so young people feel like they can’t change their mind or idea on an issue, even if they wanted to, to avoid looking weak or misinformed. It’s unfortunate that people aren’t given the lenience or patience to develop their own viewpoints over time
Another awesome video, Choujimi! Firstly, I really respect your honesty and I agree with you on the points you bring up. I also think it's important to note that young people are indeed young. They have a lot to learn, but I think we all do. Like knowing my nieces are so young and having iPads is concerning. But, that does not negate my agreements with you. As for Everglow-Up, I do really appreciate her perspectives. She's honestly one of my favorite K-Tubers, but I also am disagreeing with her more often. Though, that's not a personal attack on her character, at all. I think people can disagree and still be able to get along with each other, in my opinion. As for the "apology tour"... Well, I don't want to get too deep into it, but in my last two to three semesters of college learning history, particularly American history (as an American, myself lol), I felt it. I felt myself being so apologetic over basically everything I learned, but also simultaneously frustrated that so much of what I learned in those college history courses was either left out completely or censored in my early school years. So, yea, the apology tour is a real thing. And, the whole "You either die a hero, you live long enough to see yourself become a villain" quote... All I can say is, Choujimi, with your positivity, and the warmth you bring, you're like "a silent guardian, a watchful protector, a dark knight...". (Sorry, lol, I had to). Great work, as always, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your content. :) Stay safe and have a great rest of your week - Skye.
i do agree everything like everything has a exception like you talked about certain cases like liz’s weight gain wasn’t a problem but it could have been
history plays a part in a lot of ways people behave of a country like certain things like how we think is how our history played like the white skin obsession and million other traditions as well
and trauma is something everyone had and it’s just that genZ had more means of expressing themselves but sometimes it feels like they do so just for attention which can be problematic but yeah other than that it better to say it then keep it bottled up
sorry for the rant loved the video idk what i shared 😂💗💗
That’s a good point - we really will never know the behavior of the managing teams behind the idols, so Kitsch could’ve very well been some kind of punishment in the end. The problem with never knowing the answers is that we’ll always be stuck with one piece of the issue, and we can’t ever come to a definitive conclusion without context we’ll never know about… That’s why I don’t know if discussing social issues via kpop is ever going to be truly effective
@@choujimi yeah agreed discussing kpop social issues via kpop can work but it’s just everyone might just view it from a different lens and perspective it i can be interesting what social commentary it can bring to the table
also for kitsch as matpat said that’s just a theory a kpop theory 🫠💗
in my opinion, the problem definitely lies with education. The kids are just not thought how to set boundaries and adult are not doing anything to help. the kids can't learn how to adapt well in society if they haven't had a role model to help them with it. I also hope like what you said that everything will be okay, but it is only with adult helping these children that things will get better
It seems to me as a millennial that it doesn't matter what generation you are from. There is always tension between young people and their elders. Mostly because young folks think they know everything, and older folks also think they know everything. Young people don't want to learn from older people's experience, and older people don't want to listen to younger people's new ideas.
As I enter my late 20s, I have found that learning to navigate and tolerate some ideological differences within your community is such an important part of growing up. This is even more difficult when those differences affect your most salient social and political beliefs. I work in public policy where I my allies often have radically opposing views on everything save for the issue area that brought us together. These coalitions of "strange bedfellows" have made me less mean towards conservatives in a way that I would have thought impossible 8-10 years ago when I was first becoming political aware. This is not the same as working in door-to-door sales with conservative people (which I also did in high school). Politics is our job and therefore we consciously choose to put our unrelated differences aside for a common political end.
In many ways, the internet reduces the consequences of intolerance. In Kpop communities, this manifests in "woke" people being more punitive towards their more conservative peers. In American right wing communities, the MAGA/pro-Trump community conducts the same type of purity testing and social alienation. I believe that so much of this problem is people (1) learning to navigate tolerance, (2) escaping their IRL persecution, powerlessness, and traumas, and/or (3) cultural differences that us Americans want to forcefully bridge in other countries.
That is not to say that I oppose criticizing conservative people and their ideas. Powerful conservative people/institutions cause myriad harms that I strongly oppose IRL. But that shouldn't also cause me to socially ostracize the powerless Trump voter who I met in a gaming Discord server. I would consider everglow-up a less extreme version of that latter group (harmless conservative), but that might be my American brain doing (3). I do think we, as people more likely to be labelled "woke" than be disparaging the ideology, need to be more patient and tolerant of conservative/insensitive views. This is inherently easier to me to prescribe to a 35 year old than it is to a 15 year old, which is why Gen Z gets the blame for woke intolerance.
love this, you are so eloquent with your words !! and i really appreciate your perspective + the fact that you framed it as a malleable thing; youre open to change and i already really respect you from the few videos of yours that ive watched 💞
Thank you!! I really appreciate it
Hi friend! Great job on making this video :))) I did watch egu's content for a good while (even some recent content of her) + have joined her discord server where I met so many amazing people and friends that I feel so grateful and appreciative for :>>
I'll say this tho as a preface, I (21 Female ish from Canada) did watch egu's vid bout this topic and was left genuinely confused and even decided to ask my non kpop loving sis (who mind me is a year older than me) to help explain this. We ended up with the this conclusion:
"what was the point of the video, why focus on gen z and alpha who are a part of west (aka America, etc 😂)? Teens and tweens already kinda lost a kinda tween phase means in life thanks to having boundless amounts of info online both good and bad. They also suffer a lot from hate from society cuz society just loves blaming them (yes I'm very ironic cuz we both count as that demographic of gen z but I digress) "
I also felt like the fact that we developed critical thinking at 8 years old was definitely strange cuz I don't think kids would be thinking too hard to the point of actual critical thinking taking place lol
Ah anywho my apologies. I like the point you mention bout teens shouting out their trauma, to me it shouldn't never be a crutch that expressing your trauma makes one weaker, in fact it makes you feel stronger :)) especially during your youth, every emotion you felt gets heightened by like 10 times so I feel that teens are still growing up and with society's expectations and shit, It's natural to feel like the world is against you at odds
Thanks again hope you have a great week 💙💙
The thing is many US fans don't balance by realising Kpop is Asian culture. I'm not Korean. But many times I do realise those comments must not understand Asian culture.
My problem is that kpop is Korean so I feel like Americans need to take a little step back when it comes to all of their opinions, because at the end of the day K-pop’s main focus is the Korean public and they really don’t care much if something isn’t up to American social standards
I agree that Americans need to take a step back, but I believe it’s a bit too much of a generalization to say that “they don’t care if something is up to American standards,” as a significant amount of companies have shifted their focus to promoting internationally. From universal English captioning, to partnerships with western media companies and producer groups, it seems like companies are particularly sensitive to the international market in a lot of ways, no?
I know I’m late but this is just proving the videos point. Everyone not just west should be less toxic online. KPOP Is a music genre it’s only a toxic environment if you make it. Don’t want toxic kpop stuff only listen to the music. There should be a video saying “kpop isn’t that deep”
5:30 the simplicity of this itzy mv is distracting me 😭 what's this song??
I think it was just a cheap performance video lol
It's not a mv lol, it's cake dance practice
I like your voice. You sound so cute~
YES ABSOLUTELY THEY ARE!
i mean the ipad kids i see are well behaved but there is not many people likke that. if they exist its bc there are multiple reasons but not as massive as tik tok says LOLOLOLOLO im glad i never got into tik tok i only hear about it and laugh at how ridiculous they make things in america when it really depends and hardly is true for me. If anything this talk is good bc the educational system in america has gotten so bad that finally people are finding out! I was born in the 90s and it was just as bad as its today its just got more attention now bc of the internet made it more widespread.
I'm sorry but I'm so distracted by you acting like Tumblr doesn't exist anymore. I know you offhand say well I guess it still exists but still is killing me. A better way to discuss this would be: Tumblr served as this kind of anonymous echo chamber before but now it's heavily populated by millennials and up and is not used by the younger gens. Whenever a poll goes around Tumblr asking the age of the userbase it's pretty much 20+ and people who've been on the site forever. Also, I hate to tell you but I still see kpop people on Tumblr. The more toxic side of it just is occupying different social spaces online.
Yeah, I apologize and should’ve been more careful about explaining this… I did not realize people rode so hard for tumblr
I meant to say that while tumblr and kpop tumblr communities still exist, they don’t function in the same way they used to that were useful to young people developing their world views. Like any other social media website today, it’s become more of an open-space echochamber that shares itself with other online communities - no disrespect meant to the denizens of tumblr
While Ill agree that America fighting its proxy war vs Communism on the Korean peninsula was bad for all Koreans there is one reality that's worth remembering. If we hadn't done that the entirety of Korea would be North Korea today-- there would be no k-pop, it would simply never have happened.
I love how you are contradicting yourself in the beginning of the you said that you are going to delete comments that you think are weird but you are allowing hate comments in the comment section and replying to people calling you out… don’t you think that’s weird for yourself to do?
Hello again - I sincerely apologize if I’ve upset you in some way. That wasn’t my intention with this video, and I want to let you know that I have deleted overly hateful comments from here. There are some comments that are constructive towards everglow-up and how she approaches making an argument, but nothing that outright attacks her character or her as a person has been left up to what I can see.
Also… why is it a bad thing that I’m replying to people calling me out? I said in the video I was willing to have my mind changed on this, yet the “call out”didn’t give any constructive feedback for me to work with. I don’t know what’s being asked of me here
When people say woke theyre talking about the things that the left wing party promote .
Nah when i use the word woke i mean progressive anti white/anti male stuff, dont act like none of that exits
While watching your video, I couldn't help but to get stuck on the question of "What is woke?" I have used this word a lot in recent videos, but if I'm being honest, I do hate the word quite I bit lol. Personally, I think virtue signaling is a better term but it's way too long, so I often default to "woke" a lot. However, the question is definitely one that needs to be answered so I think it's time I answer that question (at least from my own perspective).
I think one of the reasons I haven't explained the meaning in the past, is because it's a ideology that was ingrained within the socio-political sphere of this country ever since the civil rights movement, and I don't want to sound super political or state any of my political opinions on my channel, but now I think there is a way I can explain it without saying anything too politically charged. Your video has given me a motivation to talk about it in a little more depth.
I hope to shed some light on this in the very near future. As always, very well thought out and good explanations. Thank you for making this video Chouj. 🫡🙏
I’ll be interested to hear what you have to say! Someone else in the comments brought this up, how the word “woke” has kind of been stripped of its original meaning and transformed into something with a much more negative connotation. It was something that I didn’t consider when making this video, and definitely makes me think more about how (and why) it’s used today in all its ambiguity
@@choujimi Yes, thats very true. That word has definitely been used as an “Uno reverse card” on people who are virtue signaling and viewing certain groups of people one way, when everyone in said group is not the same. That’s the way I’ve been using it, but I admit , I get a little frustrated hearing the word woke these days and even saying the word woke lol.
The original intention of the word woke was to call out racial discrimination, prejudice, and injustices within American society, but now it’s used to call out virtue signalers who believe themselves to be more morally superior then others and who hold others to a standard they don’t hold themselves to in real life.
While, some of them do actually hold themselves to that standard, I find a lot of their beliefs and views to be unfair towards others, and if you disagree with them, you’re in danger of being labeled as an enemy, ist, phob, problematic, sick, etc. All for the sake of silencing others who don’t agree with the echo chamber you talked about, Which is why I really love the comment you made about interacting with people who may not have the same view as you because every opportunity is a learning opportunity on both sides.
There’s not a lot of people that have the heart to understand the plight of both sides of an argument like you do. I don’t know if you realize how rare a thing that is in today’s time. The more I dive into K-tube, the more I start to see that, so I appreciate your transparency.
It’s really tricky to explain this whole woke thing lol but I’ll best foot forward.
Sorry for the long reply lol
@@moonlight_antonioI agree, but just clarification, woke nowadays is usually used in a totally opposing. It’s now nothing but a political, conservative, buzzword when describing “stupid” left-ideologies.
It’s like the 4th version of the definition of woke.