I like it, at the end for me it’s all about reliability. It doesn’t matter if it’s made en Germany, China, Singapour, etc, if a watch lasts for years with everyday use then it is a good watch.
The Roman numerals are just on the top half of the watch, which looks odd once you see it. They are batons from 4 - 8 o'clock. Also, the vertical side pattern is referred to as a coin edge, I believe.
Yeah correct, good observation. Coin edge usually refers to bezel edging - if you search "coin edge bezel" you will see what that refers to. Very common, including on Rolex Submariner.
I know is to much to ask for the price, but if instead of the not very helpful 24hr function at 6:00, would have a moon phase or a gmt function, for me it would be perfect. I would gladly pay more for those features. Nice watch!, definitely considering one.
We got some flak from a few people who said it needs a proper German movement, but then the price would be far higher, and without the nice functions of the Miyota 9100. Glad you don't mind!
Great looking watch!! 👌🏻 I also have a question mark ? About Made in Germany?? I thought that the movement also had to been produced in Germany, like Sinn for example!! Or is it like the swiss made, 60% of the manufacture costs must be in Switzerland!! Maybe some one here can explain!!??🙈🙈👌🏻👌🏻😎😎
Thanks for the response Waldhoff! Indeed I would very interest to hear the Waldhoff approach, as many in forums and other social commentary seem to indicate that "Made in Germany" has very little actual requirement (as compared with Swiss Made for example). Cheers!
Manufaktur Waldhoff Thank you for your answer!! Very good service from you!!👌🏻 I do understand the label Made in Germany must be hard to forfill!! Best regards!! /Torben
Perth WAtch yes Ivan, I noticed it after my comment here!! For me Made in Germany stands for quality, just like the swiss made label. Like that Waldhoff answered here on your Chanel, it easy on paper but not in reality!! Cheers!! 👌🏻😃😃
Very true indeed, I think the problem is, it's stuck between "standard-good" japanese and "cheapo" swiss movements. I've seen micros and big brands who used Miyota 9 series, that either reverted back to the 8's, a Seiko NH35 (4R35) or to a Sellita SW 200. It's just too good for it's own good. Besides that, finding a 9100-watch is not an easy task. Either it's a chinese 200€ Parnis, or this at 700€. A real bummer, Citizen should flood the Market.
I'm sure you're right that it is a pricing thing. Seiko NH35's are "over-represented" in my collection as I've mentioned elsewhere that the factory must be absolutely puking 'em out, driving down the cost. Part of the appeal to me for my Hong Kong divers, like the Pantor SeaHorse, was the Miyota movement. And it is that movement that keeps the siren singing to me for a Phoibos homage Rolex that I really don't need. Lesser non-winding 8 series or Seiko 7's need not apply with such plentiful and nifty choices. I have succumbed to the Swiss on occasion but find 'em too precious for the $$.
@@nightraker Man, I hear ya! Bought a, to be honest, quite nice Seiko from the SRPA line with a 4R35 for 150€, but then bought a Marc & Sons Marine with a Miyota 9015 for 180€, as much as I love Seiko, the Microbrand is just way and above, finish is pretty much equal, but the 9015 just smokes it, way, waaay better. No disrespect for Seiko though, it IS a good movement, and they know how to sell it.
Normal retail brands that sell to wholesalers and retailers need to mark up their products around 7x to make a decent profit and stay alive. Most microbrands sell direct to customers , and mark up their products by about half as much, so one can get more bang for the buck in a micro (generally, but not always). There are some really nice ones around these days, I suspect that some will become mainstream.
sweet looking, but typical microbrand overpricing! Suspect that "made in Germany" is every bit as valid as "made in Switzerland" is on some brands 😉. Good review, cheers 👍👍
Inkitatus - from all I have read/heard Made in Germany certainly does not have the same requirements as having the Swiss Made label... Swiss made have more defined requirements.
This review has no comment on the button on the side of the case at the 2 o'clock position, though the crown is mentioned at the 3 o'clock position. I assume this does nothing and is only a decoration, since it isn't mentioned, but please correct me if that is wrong.
Great review and just what we have come to expect of this channel. And the watch is indeed great looking. The trouble is, is there anything real that differentiates it from any number of Chinese watches at an eighth of the price and would the uninitiated spot anything about it that speaks of discernment that might justify the price difference.
Thanks for the thoughts - worth asking indeed. I think the quality is apparent immediately when handling this piece as compared to something say that's $50 on Chinese market. The dial details, leather strap, certainly superior to anything I have in the lower price range. For the more discerning the movement is certainly of the quality Miyota 9000 range, which would be considered better than essentially anything currently Chinese owned & designed. So it does depend on a modicum of discernment... without that, may as well get a $20 Tevise rather than an $10k Submariner :)
I agree that the movement is a cut above many Chinese offerings. But you an I both have Chinese watches with more than adequate Japanese movements that have cases and faces of equal quality and complexity to your "European" piece. What interests me is not whether the difference between the Rolex and Tevise is easily discernible to the laity but whether the difference between your review watch and say a complicated Seagull dress watch is. And it seems to me that the gap between these pieces is far narrower in quality, design and finish terms whilst the price gap remains at 3 times more for the supposedly European piece. Are we getting to the point where the difference is only the supposed land of origin? Are we heading for the end of days for the micro brand watch that arrives in Europe as almost a kit from China to be assembled in the EU and possibly have a descent leather strap added? Parnis recently sent out a promo email claiming that they offer the equivalent of Swiss quality for 2% of the price. Could that be uncomfortably near to the truth - what do you think?
Some excellent points there David... I think overall when considering the Chinese market, Seagull is the common brand (perhaps only brand) that can come toe-to-toe in quality terms with a product like this one. In that comparison the differences actually become much more difficult to discern, especially for those who have cursory or lower interest in watches. However at the same time I think the realistic price difference is probably not 3 times but more like 80-100% more (considering same level of complications, and that the realistic sale price of this watch is not really $675). I think you're right in that some of the difference then comes down almost purely to country of manufacture/design, in which case the product has to stand up or market forces will dictate that it fails - I am keen to see how Waldhoff fares over the next few years! This is the reality we are already facing at different price points and heritage level with Grand Seiko or Credor being comparable with Swiss pieces more than 2x the cost.
I can't speak for Seagull as we rarely use their movements due to massive reliability issues (apart from a few pieces that are good), but regarding the price, we sell ours for $449 USD after discount, including international shipping. There is not other watch on the market that we can find, using the Miyota 9100 movement, with similar specs, at this price point. There are even brands selling for $1500 USD with this very same movement. Cheers
@@PerthWAtch the complicated Seagull watches I have seen have a price around $300, where can you get a Seagull with this sort of range of complications and a 28,8 movement for under 300? I am very curious I'm sure I just don't know where to look,that is why I ask
Hi I'm interested in the smart watches dn load music heart rate and all that stuff maybe satellite sync for time. I hope you could do something on these watches even though they are not automatic/mechanical. Thanks
No worries - take a search on my channel, I have at least 3-4 videos with smart watches already. I also have many videos on digital quartz multifunction watches including GPS time sync. Cheers! ;)
It is the same as a Mercedes. The company is based in Germany and assembles there, but some of the parts are foreign. We can not offer this watch at this price if all the parts including the movement were from here, so we decided to be sourcing neutral, and just buy the best for the money, while trying to source as much possible from Germany and to a lesser extent from Switzerland.
A well presented watch review. In reference to your video queries, do refer to the following for further information clarity. To pronounce it in Deutsch / German , its "Maarn-Urh-Faarc-Turr Waald-Hoff " due to different "ABC" alphabets pronounciation . The difference between 'Made In ...' and '... Made' are purely legal and trade protection purposes in both references and trademarks that are only enforced and authorized by specific and sanctioned governing authorities. Eg. 'Swiss Made' can only be authorized and issued by Swiss Watch Authority only to Swiss watch makers that fulfills specific Swiss requirements and standard in Switzerland only. Unlike 'Made In ...' including 'Made In Germany', this term is not exclusive nor a trademark designate. Instead, this only serves symbolically as an identification for product origin and or brands in general representation reference.
Ah thank you very much for sharing that... useful to know! So would you happen to know if the designation of "German Made" implies certain requirements have been fulfilled ?
Yes, Perth WAtch. It is equivalent to an internal or manufacturer's 'QC / QA' (Quality Control / Quality Assurannce)' to comply common local industry standards. This is in mutual understanding and trust without direct authorities involvement.
There will always be a standard to which businesses have to comply and adhere as their reputation consequences is paramount. Their external standard or reference is governed by their nation's industry guidelines laws. Even that will always pose downsides as there are no such thing as guarantees for full proof. If products are that good and certified to be qualified for and with 'Made' labels, there will be no such thing as goods / products defects and customer dissatisfaction issues, let alone scandals the likes of Takata's car airbags scandals and Volkswagen's diesel emissions scandals. Ultimately, its their business decisions responsibilities that shows their values. Not their 'Made' labels beyond its purpose.
You make an excellent point there... it seems that "Swiss Made" does have more controls and surveillance over it hence the level of trust that people place in the label (although I have my issues with this, see separate video!), whilst the label for other countries has less stringent meaning. The reputation of the company therefore becomes more important in these cases.
You can get much more handsome pieces from Parnis with a miyota 9100 movement for a 3rd of the price. Definitely paying for that German pretense with this model.
@@PerthWAtch I believe it's called the PA6062. It comes in several different colors, and few different display formats, but I think they consider them all the same model.
That's a very nice piece Ivan. I do like the close up shots in your videos.
Thanks - well I am encouraged that some people have noticed the close-ups and the photography! :)
Wow these spruiking posts are getting very coordinated!
I got one of these off Kickstarter, great watch it's so well made.
Thanks - glad you are enjoying it! :)
@@PerthWAtch great watch, they are really underrated IMHO.
They have a certain design style I think, not to everyone's taste but they do make quality watches.
Just purchased from official website
I like it, at the end for me it’s all about reliability. It doesn’t matter if it’s made en Germany, China, Singapour, etc, if a watch lasts for years with everyday use then it is a good watch.
Fair point - I agree!
I know I'm pretty off topic but do anybody know of a good site to watch newly released movies online?
@Jackson Jeremias flixportal :P
@Genesis Grant Thanks, I went there and it seems to work :D I appreciate it!!
@Jackson Jeremias You are welcome :D
Nice review!
Thanks Nick - glad you appreciated it!
Excellent review
Thank you
The Roman numerals are just on the top half of the watch, which looks odd once you see it. They are batons from 4 - 8 o'clock. Also, the vertical side pattern is referred to as a coin edge, I believe.
Yeah correct, good observation. Coin edge usually refers to bezel edging - if you search "coin edge bezel" you will see what that refers to. Very common, including on Rolex Submariner.
Thanks for the review. Very interesting watch.
Thanks for the ongoing support Chris! :)
Looks good from the top but from the side not so much was bummed out from the side look
Thanks for the comment Brandon... yeah I did find that but don't get me wrong, it's still overall a very decent piece :)
No constructive criticism is bad criticism, thank you for the feedback Brandon.
Love the look of this watch , the dial and finish is very good , perfect for a dress watch but it’s just a little too thick
for my wrist .
Thanks for that - oh yes the thickness is a bit of a killer on this piece!
I know is to much to ask for the price, but if instead of the not very helpful 24hr function at 6:00, would have a moon phase or a gmt function, for me it would be perfect. I would gladly pay more for those features. Nice watch!, definitely considering one.
Yeah those alternative functions would be great!
Quite a handsome piece.
Thanks ronch! :)
This has a very Zeppelin style feel to it. The screws, the height, the reliefs. Beautiful Watch, if I had the ~700€, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Thanks for that - good point about the Zeppelin cues actually, I hadn't thought about that :)
Thank you Savaria. It's actually going for $449 USD on Indiegogo at the moment. Cheers
It's probably because it has the same movement inside.
I want to buy one of these. The Japanese moving is actually a godsend. That’s a fantastic movement
Amazing!!
Regardless of were parts were made in.it is indeed an attractive watch. The Japanese " engine " is not a shame.
Thanks - good thoughts and well said! :)
We got some flak from a few people who said it needs a proper German movement, but then the price would be far higher, and without the nice functions of the Miyota 9100. Glad you don't mind!
Great looking watch!! 👌🏻
I also have a question mark ? About Made in Germany?? I thought that the movement also had to been produced in Germany, like Sinn for example!! Or is it like the swiss made, 60% of the manufacture costs must be in Switzerland!! Maybe some one here can explain!!??🙈🙈👌🏻👌🏻😎😎
Hello Torben, we can send you the origin of all our parts, just shoot us an e-mail. Made in Germany is easy on paper but hard in practice. Cheers
Thanks for the response Waldhoff! Indeed I would very interest to hear the Waldhoff approach, as many in forums and other social commentary seem to indicate that "Made in Germany" has very little actual requirement (as compared with Swiss Made for example). Cheers!
Torben - BTW Sinn often use Swiss movements actually so that certainly does not seem to be a requirement.
Manufaktur Waldhoff Thank you for your answer!! Very good service from you!!👌🏻 I do understand the label Made in Germany must be hard to forfill!!
Best regards!! /Torben
Perth WAtch yes Ivan, I noticed it after my comment here!! For me Made in Germany stands for quality, just like the swiss made label. Like that Waldhoff answered here on your Chanel, it easy on paper but not in reality!! Cheers!! 👌🏻😃😃
Certainly a marvelously complicated design. I wish more micros used Miyota movements as my experience with 90xx divers is entirely positive.
Very true, would be nice if more used the 9000 series Miyota movements but alas it's often the cheaper alternatives we see...!
Very true indeed, I think the problem is, it's stuck between "standard-good" japanese and "cheapo" swiss movements. I've seen micros and big brands who used Miyota 9 series, that either reverted back to the 8's, a Seiko NH35 (4R35) or to a Sellita SW 200. It's just too good for it's own good. Besides that, finding a 9100-watch is not an easy task. Either it's a chinese 200€ Parnis, or this at 700€. A real bummer, Citizen should flood the Market.
I'm sure you're right that it is a pricing thing. Seiko NH35's are "over-represented" in my collection as I've mentioned elsewhere that the factory must be absolutely puking 'em out, driving down the cost. Part of the appeal to me for my Hong Kong divers, like the Pantor SeaHorse, was the Miyota movement. And it is that movement that keeps the siren singing to me for a Phoibos homage Rolex that I really don't need. Lesser non-winding 8 series or Seiko 7's need not apply with such plentiful and nifty choices. I have succumbed to the Swiss on occasion but find 'em too precious for the $$.
@@nightraker Man, I hear ya! Bought a, to be honest, quite nice Seiko from the SRPA line with a 4R35 for 150€, but then bought a Marc & Sons Marine with a Miyota 9015 for 180€, as much as I love Seiko, the Microbrand is just way and above, finish is pretty much equal, but the 9015 just smokes it, way, waaay better. No disrespect for Seiko though, it IS a good movement, and they know how to sell it.
Normal retail brands that sell to wholesalers and retailers need to mark up their products around 7x to make a decent profit and stay alive. Most microbrands sell direct to customers , and mark up their products by about half as much, so one can get more bang for the buck in a micro (generally, but not always). There are some really nice ones around these days, I suspect that some will become mainstream.
sweet looking, but typical microbrand overpricing! Suspect that "made in Germany" is every bit as valid as "made in Switzerland" is on some brands 😉. Good review, cheers 👍👍
Hello, curious to hear what would be a fair price for this watch, considering the movement and specs.
Manufaktur Waldhoff £400-£500 would be about right IMHO.. nice looking design 👍👍
£500 is about what this goes for then, at US$675...
Inkitatus - from all I have read/heard Made in Germany certainly does not have the same requirements as having the Swiss Made label... Swiss made have more defined requirements.
@@PerthWAtch thanks for the reply 👍
This review has no comment on the button on the side of the case at the 2 o'clock position, though the crown is mentioned at the 3 o'clock position. I assume this does nothing and is only a decoration, since it isn't mentioned, but please correct me if that is wrong.
I mentioned that the function of the button (month setting) at 3:45 and also demonstrated its use, pressing it a few times.
@@PerthWAtch I must have somehow missed that. Thanks for correcting me.
Most welcome :)
Great review and just what we have come to expect of this channel. And the watch is indeed great looking. The trouble is, is there anything real that differentiates it from any number of Chinese watches at an eighth of the price and would the uninitiated spot anything about it that speaks of discernment that might justify the price difference.
Thanks for the thoughts - worth asking indeed. I think the quality is apparent immediately when handling this piece as compared to something say that's $50 on Chinese market. The dial details, leather strap, certainly superior to anything I have in the lower price range. For the more discerning the movement is certainly of the quality Miyota 9000 range, which would be considered better than essentially anything currently Chinese owned & designed. So it does depend on a modicum of discernment... without that, may as well get a $20 Tevise rather than an $10k Submariner :)
I agree that the movement is a cut above many Chinese offerings. But you an I both have Chinese watches with more than adequate Japanese movements that have cases and faces of equal quality and complexity to your "European" piece. What interests me is not whether the difference between the Rolex and Tevise is easily discernible to the laity but whether the difference between your review watch and say a complicated Seagull dress watch is. And it seems to me that the gap between these pieces is far narrower in quality, design and finish terms whilst the price gap remains at 3 times more for the supposedly European piece. Are we getting to the point where the difference is only the supposed land of origin? Are we heading for the end of days for the micro brand watch that arrives in Europe as almost a kit from China to be assembled in the EU and possibly have a descent leather strap added? Parnis recently sent out a promo email claiming that they offer the equivalent of Swiss quality for 2% of the price. Could that be uncomfortably near to the truth - what do you think?
Some excellent points there David... I think overall when considering the Chinese market, Seagull is the common brand (perhaps only brand) that can come toe-to-toe in quality terms with a product like this one. In that comparison the differences actually become much more difficult to discern, especially for those who have cursory or lower interest in watches. However at the same time I think the realistic price difference is probably not 3 times but more like 80-100% more (considering same level of complications, and that the realistic sale price of this watch is not really $675). I think you're right in that some of the difference then comes down almost purely to country of manufacture/design, in which case the product has to stand up or market forces will dictate that it fails - I am keen to see how Waldhoff fares over the next few years!
This is the reality we are already facing at different price points and heritage level with Grand Seiko or Credor being comparable with Swiss pieces more than 2x the cost.
I can't speak for Seagull as we rarely use their movements due to massive reliability issues (apart from a few pieces that are good), but regarding the price, we sell ours for $449 USD after discount, including international shipping. There is not other watch on the market that we can find, using the Miyota 9100 movement, with similar specs, at this price point. There are even brands selling for $1500 USD with this very same movement. Cheers
@@PerthWAtch the complicated Seagull watches I have seen have a price around $300, where can you get a Seagull with this sort of range of complications and a 28,8 movement for under 300? I am very curious I'm sure I just don't know where to look,that is why I ask
Hi I'm interested in the smart watches dn load music heart rate and all that stuff maybe satellite sync for time. I hope you could do something on these watches even though they are not automatic/mechanical. Thanks
No worries - take a search on my channel, I have at least 3-4 videos with smart watches already. I also have many videos on digital quartz multifunction watches including GPS time sync. Cheers! ;)
I am from germany and I believe that when the movement is foreign, everything else has to be made in germany. Literally.
Thanks for that - it seems very vague, and very difficult to find any definitely info on this, hence the reservations that people may have.
It is the same as a Mercedes. The company is based in Germany and assembles there, but some of the parts are foreign. We can not offer this watch at this price if all the parts including the movement were from here, so we decided to be sourcing neutral, and just buy the best for the money, while trying to source as much possible from Germany and to a lesser extent from Switzerland.
Thanks for another great review Ivan. Echt Leder = Genuine Leather (thanks Google Translate)
Haha thanks! Yeah I think I did put that thru also but couldn't remember for sure when I filmed this :)
I could see that on my wrist... 👍👍
Cool - are you considering purchase?
@@PerthWAtch Hi, Unfortunately my watch budget is blown for this year so I have to put on my short list for the future! 👍
A well presented watch review. In reference to your video queries, do refer to the following for further information clarity.
To pronounce it in Deutsch / German , its "Maarn-Urh-Faarc-Turr Waald-Hoff " due to different "ABC" alphabets pronounciation .
The difference between 'Made In ...' and '... Made' are purely legal and trade protection purposes in both references and trademarks that are only enforced and authorized by specific and sanctioned governing authorities.
Eg. 'Swiss Made' can only be authorized and issued by Swiss Watch Authority only to Swiss watch makers that fulfills specific Swiss requirements and standard in Switzerland only.
Unlike 'Made In ...' including 'Made In Germany', this term is not exclusive nor a trademark designate. Instead, this only serves symbolically as an identification for product origin and or brands in general representation reference.
Ah thank you very much for sharing that... useful to know! So would you happen to know if the designation of "German Made" implies certain requirements have been fulfilled ?
Yes, Perth WAtch.
It is equivalent to an internal or manufacturer's 'QC / QA' (Quality Control / Quality Assurannce)' to comply common local industry standards.
This is in mutual understanding and trust without direct authorities involvement.
How curious... no external independent standard would mean that it's prone to abuse/misuse no?
There will always be a standard to which businesses have to comply and adhere as their reputation consequences is paramount.
Their external standard or reference is governed by their nation's industry guidelines laws.
Even that will always pose downsides as there are no such thing as guarantees for full proof.
If products are that good and certified to be qualified for and with 'Made' labels, there will be no such thing as goods / products defects and customer dissatisfaction issues, let alone scandals the likes of Takata's car airbags scandals and Volkswagen's diesel emissions scandals.
Ultimately, its their business decisions responsibilities that shows their values.
Not their 'Made' labels beyond its purpose.
You make an excellent point there... it seems that "Swiss Made" does have more controls and surveillance over it hence the level of trust that people place in the label (although I have my issues with this, see separate video!), whilst the label for other countries has less stringent meaning. The reputation of the company therefore becomes more important in these cases.
You can get much more handsome pieces from Parnis with a miyota 9100 movement for a 3rd of the price. Definitely paying for that German pretense with this model.
Nice - which model is that?
@@PerthWAtch I believe it's called the PA6062. It comes in several different colors, and few different display formats, but I think they consider them all the same model.
Read that Parnis watches where made in China, and from various factories, so quality can vary.
The ads on TH-cam are getting ridiculous!
Oh dear... what did they show you?
they started making tourbillions a while ago as well
Yeah mate, checkout my reviews of those too!
Is it 43 or 41?
What
@@PerthWAtch he meant case dial size :)
Case and dial are two different things
I didn’t know what he meant - how do you know? 🤔
Manu-factory Waldhoff
Manufaktur! :)
Great watch mine runs perfect ,i have the bracelet version ❤️it.
Thanks - interesting, there does not seem to be a bracelet option when I look...
There is a new bracelet on the website. Cheers
Good to know! :)
How is the condition of the watch in 2024?
Is it still running? And how well is it running?
What’d ya call me?
You really want me to say it?
😆😆
Made in Germany? It means not Made in China. Ha.
Made in Germany had very little meaning it seems... could just mean some parts (maybe only a few) were made there, rest can be China.
People stop mixing Roman and Arabic numerals. It only looks cheap and unprofessional. STOP
Interesting... so is it ok for Germans to mix it like that??
Perth WAtch no one should mix it up like that... and tasteful minimalism is a virtue IMHO.
Fair enough... so maybe you should take out the "Asian" in your initial comment!
シナ製部品つかう会社の製品は 買わんわ
What?