LS9 Nightmare episode #5: Trying to Balance this molested crankshaft.....
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2024
- Ls9 Nightmare: trying to balance this molested crankshaft
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"I hate this job!" No you don't~ Your business that you have worked so hard for, to provide for your family is fantastic! You have a great family! You own it all! You're a perfectionist, and you go out of your way to make people more happy than most deserve! Let me tell you! I'd love to have a place I could do good work like you do and stand behind it~ Great job as always!
We really appreciate that 🙏, 💯! I definitely try hard
Wow. That crank looked like something the whole class at the trade school took a turn at.
Lol definitely
Whoever designed the crank balancing machine was one smart cookie 👍🏻 I wouldn’t even know where to begin.
Definitely
I learned the same techniques balancing automotive wheels. I enjoy this channel.
You would be amazed how much you teach us in these videos. I never would have thought you could work around where the computer actually tells you to remove weight. That's the kind of tedious work that tries your nerves, well at least mine!
We call it tribal knowledge!
The shop I used for years would have told the owner of that crankshaft to take it somewhere else😂. You are a good man Daniel and I appreciate you trying to help someone out but you nailed it when you said the next person who touches this crank is going to blame that mess on you. Thankfully you have this video. Thanks for the video.
Absolutely 💯
I think you are spot on. To many variables once out of your hands.
Sir we your customers depend on your knowledge and your experience when we come to you with our TURD. We are extremely grateful to you for your patience in trying to correct said TURD. We would all love to be able to afford to build a race motor but life (wife) gets in the way!! We are extremely grateful to have you to come to. Thanks
Ty, we really appreciate that!
I wish I could pop into his shop to show him how to do this a little quicker. I have too much going on right now, though.
I really like how you explain things in your videos.
Thank you, we try hard
Turner balancers are awesome
Absolutely
I see people grind a bunch off counter weights at home that looks nice and think they can just send it the local machine shop and get a proper balancing. Thank you for the information and thank you for your time.
With the amount of labor to try correct a compromised piece like that I imagine their must be times you just tell a customer they would be better off buying a new one.
Thats like a $900 crank. If you want a different one you are looking at an aftermarket forging. You still need to balance it either way. The front imbalance was less than 10grams. Thats only about 1.5cc of material.
I have find more and more that it is almost impossible to get quality work done on anything. Everyone wants a paycheck and could care less about the quality of work. I have ended up doing so many things myself simply because you can not find anyone willing to do it correctly.
Facts
Nightmare, you named that right
Yup
Hey Brother, I showed this Vid to my semi famous Machinist Bro In Law, and he said, "how does this guy make any money". Really doing a favor is on thing, but that crank needed to be deep Sixed. I think you are on the right track, even the block with the weird crank caps, guarantee that did not come from the factory that way. Anyway great series, and one great effort to save this boat anchor.
Ty!!
Great video....thx brother
I've lightened a few bottom ends, rods and pistons then knife edged the crank and been more lucky than knowledgeable as the balance shop didn't have any issues.
Just an old school machinist making lots of guesses.
These videos are priceless
Thx again
Good deal
Glad to see you feeling better and back at it. Good grief is there anything that wasn't screwed up on that engine? Definitely can't say you're not up to a challenge. Looking forward to the next installment, something tells me it will be very entertaining.
Yeah, it's pretty bad all over
Sir, your knowledge and perseverance, paid off! That, engine can live now! Great upload, sir!
Thank you very much!
That’s funny , Powell machining and turd polishing …….. when’s the tee shirt coming out?😁😁😁😁😁😁. Great video!
Coming soon....
Great video Daniel. Welcome to my world !!! Sometimes, if you have plenty of work, it's best to say NO !!! The other side of the coin is the customer has to be willing to pay you for ALL of your time.
Absolutely!
I like the saying, “sneak up on it.” Kinda like sneaking up on a big trout instead of crashing into the stream.
Exactly
I really like your videos. The way you explain things you're just like the machine shop. I used to use when I was younger before he passed old school. the work you put into that crank. I would have told the customer to throw it in the junk and get another one cost and time is worth something keep up the good work
Ty, we appreciate it
I was unaware that you could drill on the next to last counterweight. Most balancing I’ve seen they drill two holes on opposite sides of the spot where the machine tells them to.
I have balanced cranks before, never seen such a screwed up original job, I would have back off and kept my name out of the trash, love watching your channel, keep up the good work that you do. Like always you can polish a turd all you want and it still a turd.
Ty, we appreciate you being here
Watching this vid made think about the guy at work that just got married, the gal had already been married 5 times previously.
Absolutely 💯
I enjoyed the video buddy first time I've seen a crank being balanced motors that I've had built my engine builder balance the cranks but everything you had to go through with this crank the guy ought to be happy as hell you fixed what somebody else screwed up but an awesome video buddy looking forward to your next one
Awesome, thank you!
Hello and thumbs UP to Powell Machine !
Ty, we appreciated 8t
What an interesting video. I've never actually seen a crank balanced, so watching how you did it was very interesting.Too bad they stuck you with a real turd of a crank! You sure did persevere and get it in spec. I agree with not working on the junk ones in the future. Keep up the amazing work!
Ty very much!!
might have been balanced with the flywheel-combo/flex-combo and race-damper and pully's on 🤔💭or there equipment wasn't calibrated? ect
He needs to invest in some quality equipment, though.
friend of mine is a engine builder and we had a combination in one and sendt it to get balanced and it was 160 grams off
As a shop owner/ machinist I feel your pain on these types of jobs. It’s just my son and myself also. The jobs that come in that are baskets and you fix to make the customer a usable quality part most of the time just don’t pay enough with the extra time and effort it takes. My problem is I see it as a challenge, but it just doesn’t work to be profitable on those jobs. But I agree when that motor comes apart and the next person sees it you get the blame! Pictures and documentation will give you a small defense, but its just not worth the hassle.
That Turner technologies balancer is a nice piece. I converted my stewart warner 2000 to Turner Tech and that guy is super helpful and knows balancing.
💯
Wow I never thought of that,I think your right you have to stop fixing stuff like that as the next builder will think who built this last . Looks bad even though its not your fault.You don,t need that sort of thing getting around ,Even though you have a good name. Cheers from Australia
Absolutely! Thanks mate😉
Yoi inherited a mess!!
Definitely
I had a crank balanced like 40 years ago. Had no idea what it took. That’s a lot of work!
Right on
Great information and great camera work
Glad you enjoyed it
We use to epoxy corks in our suzuki crankshaft holes so they didnt cause any cavitation, i just wonder if that would be a good idea on automotive cranks
Great work fixing that turd and your are totally right you don't deserve to have your reputation on the line for other people's crappie work
💯
The old-timer I used to work with when he had to drill into hard stuff like that Mallory and whatnot for weight he would use a carbide End Mill . He just factored and burning up a carbide End Mill to every job if it was already balanced from before
Well sir, I was in the tool business back in the early eighties (Mac) and I went around to various shops and of course I always heard somebody bad mouthing somebody in this business and of course as you have mentioned "the last guy" to work on something is going to get the bad mouthing. Automobile service shops and supporting businesses are the worst about gossip. Now I do realize that this is commonplace in just about everything and when we are dealing with people nothing is going to go according to hale. But experience tells one that some jobs are not worth the trouble and sometimes the cost of the job can exceed the cost of replacing an item and starting with new. I had a friend of mine who believed that everything could be rebuilt and of course that is true but when you exceed the cost of a new item just to say you "rebuilt" it, then that does not make good business sense unless it is some item that is irreplaceable. I would agree that your assessment of turning down these "football" jobs, but the challenge of saving and fixing up someone else's nightmare is a challenge. My brother does automotive upholstery, and he has learned in his years of experience of what jobs to stay away from because quite frankly "they are not profitable" and this profit is not only money but the time as well. You get this sinking feeling in your gut when you have bit off more time than you can chew for the same price.
Yep!
Any chance you would show us how you calibrate the balancer and how you set it up when you out the crank in. Really appreciate and enjoy your videos!
Working on other peoples mess is a byproduct of being a tad too nice. We have all jad to fix others messes. A lot of times it just aint worth it.
Definitely
Friend of mine bought a fox mustang set up for the strip, seller had receipts for the 1 year old build lots of high dollar parts. Engine had low oil pressure a few months after he bought it. I came over his house when he got the engine on a stand it had a forged internally balance crank and the machine shop drilled so many holes in the rear crank weight to balance a 50 oz flywheel and it wasn’t balanced it vibrated that’s why the bearings were wiped out.
Yep, there's alot of morons out there pretending to be machinist....
@@powellmachineinc3179 Sadly, a lot of guys believe that if they can drill and tap a hole, they are machinists.
All money isn't good money sometimes it better to turn jobs down. I hate cleaning up others crap.
Yup
Surely an owner of a LS9 engine has enough cash to be able spend an extra $1k to buy a replacement crank,
Hope your not going to warrant the engine if the Mallory comes flying out
I can see why you called it nightmare. Would it have been better for him to buy another crankshaft? With that much Mallery is the crank still viable? Your abilities are really good!
Better ? Yes, cost effective, no
You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear but you can make usable bag. Tha crank looks like a raggedy sows ear to start with😂
Amazing Absolutely Amazing
Ty
Could you have split the difference on the rear and drilled two holes on each side of the Mallory slugs..... Thats what I have seen done... I think small holes on the inside counterweight are ok, they do it on factory LS.... but I'm sure you know all this ... liked the video 😊
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
I once had a local shop balance my v6 splayed crank. Charged me 1000 for a clean, polish and balance. He said it was really hard to balance hence the high cost. I got it home and unwrapped it, 4 slugs of Mallory in it! I called because that couldn't be correct, he said it was correct. I new it had to be wrong, so down loaded a Bob weight form and made all my weights. I found that my new rods were lighter! So why all the Mallory? I called him back and asked if he still had his Bob weight form and could we compare them. All of the weights were close, until the end Bob weight, his way WAY more! He asks me how I came up with my low number. I said it's a splayed crank so only 1 piston rod combo per journal, so I didn't have to times that mass by 2. A BIG LONG PAUSE ON THE PHONE! I said that you balanced it as a v12, he said yes and bring it back. Out came the Mallory, in went some tool steel, no idea what a got in the end. He only gave back 200 bucks. After the build, I sold the car. I wish Powell was in my area!
Yea, split pin v6's are different
New to this channel, hell yeah from aussie merica!
Thank you!!
At some point a new crank is going to be a better option. They screwed that up so bad. I know parts are expensive and hard to get but so is your time . Great video
Ty
Great video , at what point do you say "Just Junk It ?"
Why is there so much protrusion of the all thread that sticks out from those things does it actually serve a purpose or it just looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
I think the only reason that people don't go to the inner throw weight since there's no way to drill from the side
Cam kit right here buddy I have a 2007 Caddilac Escalade 6.2 vin 8 come on corn bread let me get that good old cam 😂 for my birtha truck 🛻
Sometimes you just have to say no. Personally I would have cut that one in two and thrown it into the scrap bin. Just because you can fix it doesn't always mean you should.
Better add $75 on rebalance jobs that didn't originate from your shop, and write it up as such - its a repair at the end of the day. That ate up alot of time.
Daniel, so darn interesting! First, what’s the value of the CS? Is it worth the labor cost to jack around all day just to get it close? Considering the cost of a quality overhaul a new crank wouldn’t be a large percentage? Second, why do you not use a drill lube? The residual oil will create an inaccurate balance?
As always, thank you for the learning!!!
I just read a new crank is about $1100 and it cost the customer $400 to balance that one? Is this true? So for $700+- I could have a brand new crank? I’d make a boat anchor out of the old one!
The new crank will need balancing also
“Molested”, seems to be a accurate use of the word, in this instance…
Definitely
Watched Old Man's Garage in Ohio.
They had a slug slung out of crank someone worked on.
Right thru the pan and he wrecked from the oil on the front wheels.
Brand new built car. It was big block .
It was put in radially instead of horizontal, you can't put it in radially unless you want to make a grenade, rookie mistake
@@powellmachineinc3179 i can't tell you how many I've seen from "professional " places have it radially and then welded. I'm like, it's gonna sling out, wth !!!
How do you feel about welding mallory in a crank?
Man, I feel Your pain.
💯
What are the economics of recycling the old crankshaft and purchasing a new crankshaft when you consider the labor and materials to correct the existing crankshaft?
About double
Looks like some shop used a tire balancer in the past....LOL. Interesting stuff and Im a 4 cyl type....Would like to pick your brain with a Q & A video.....Lets talk about valve guide materials, steel vs bronze magnesium and wear, single vs double valve spring wear on valve guides, cam lift vs wear on guides. Im forced to run bronze mag guides with a .50 lift cam and double valve springs on a Toyota 22R. At least thats what the seller says (LCE). Im probably way out of your wheel house with a 1980's 4 banger. Just looking for longevity and 50,000 for guides is not ...Ask your viewers for questions...get more views....Thanks for your reply on shaving pistons...GOOD advice.....
What balancer is that? I have had a Balance Technologies, a Heins, a Winona Van Norman, and a CWT Multi-Bal 5000. I have never seen that before.
Turner technologies
Making chicken salad out of chicken 💩 is never a good thing!
Yep
Curiosity has me, if it's been messed with that much why wouldn't you just restart with a fresh one?
Customer doesn't want to drop another grand, and it's a mess, but 8ts in balance and will work.
Noticed that you have the crank sensor wheel on the crank as you balance. I had a 5.3 ls crank balanced and they charged me to remove and install said it was necessary.
If you have to put Mallory in the rear counter weight you need to remove the reluctor wheel to install it
Fixing other's mistakes is taking on their mistakes and making them your own. Yeah, it can be done but if any problems arise, you take the hit.
Got a question ! Alot of engine Guy hate on the others putting mallory on top off counter weight and not on the side because it can flew off the crank .
How do you ensure that will not happen , even welded it happen sometime
Radial installation it garbage, it's gotta be horizontal
What balancer are you using? I kinda like the setup vs the floor mount jobby
Turner technology
Is there anything a CWT could do that would benefit you vs what ur running now? @powellmachineinc3179
@powellmachineinc3179 I had a OLD Stewart balancer in my hobby shop that no longer works. I've been upgrading from my hobby stuff into full time machining. I do a lot of medium and heavy duty diesel stuff. As well as the normal ls etc. I've got plenty of mills and could easily spare a little more worn machine for this type of setup.
I am not a machinist, and it looks like you are very conchientis. I would also like it if you told us things like what kinds of machines you are using and small things like what is Mallory. Maybe I should know? But I don't, I watch to maybe learn something in my retirement. Never to old to learn. 😅
I also wondered what Mallory was so I searched it on Google. It’s primarily titanium and is 55 percent heavier than lead.
I googled it also. Learn something everyday.
And it’s expensive
@@ellieprice363 *Tungsten
What does it take for cut down counter weight/air plane winged balance jobs on factory LS cranks ?? Costs ?? This is considered for a 5.3 . Would a 6L crank make it easier to balance ??
You would just have to add a bunch of weight back in Mallory to fix what u cut off
Would you be bucks ahead to get a new crank?
Makes you wonder if the last fiy balanced it with a hydraulic damper and flexplate on it instead of bare. Damper still solid instead of liquid.
They probably didn't set the cap right.
I appreciate your explanation and quest for quality workmanship but Please wear safety glasses when you drilling steel cranks. KEEP UP THE QUALITY WORK !!!
Ty, I appreciate you watching
I call it the curse of competency. Because you're good, you get all the problems no one else can fix. At least it makes a great video.
Absolutely 💯
Another great and also well described video btw do you lighten crankshafts I have one I wanted to see about having it lightened
Ty, yes we can
Great video again....question...im building a 406 SBC for the street and I bought a brand new luniti lightweight rotating assembly and should I trust that the crank is ok or should I bring it to you for balancing....thx.
if it does not specifically say that its been balanced then yes you need to have it balanced. take the flywheel or flex plate too if its external balance. ive seen kits both ways. and the non balance kits are usually much cheaper. its been a long time since ive bought one tho.
I'm ignorant to building auto race motors, what does a race crank cost? I very much enjoy the precision and your knowledge sharing.
A factory Ls9 crank is about $900US. an aftermarket crank is just over $1000.
Im wondering how a $30k engine has already had to be rebuilt... now twice. Sounds like more money than ....
I'd like to hear more about this balancing system, being adapted to a milling machine.
Im curious how much it costs to work this crankshaft compared to getting a new one. Although it'd be smart to have a new one balanced as well.
Let me start by saying that I have never even seen a crank balancing machine up close so, this is not a criticism in any way, just a question.
You said the weights are calculculated based on 100% of the rotating mass and 50% of the reciprocating mass. Doesn't an adjustment have
to be made for the conn rods being heavier on the crank end?
We don't care about heavy or light, we care about what the components actually weigh, we are simulating the rotating mass.
When balancing you determine the weight of each end of the rod with a fixture
@@jeffreydurham5342 Tbank you.
You made it happen but I feel like your time envolved with making it happen is a loss for you. Its great dedication to the customer but monetarily jobs like that hurt. Id pass on the next one for sure. Great video as always.
I completely understand where your coming from Brother
Ty
I totally agree about having to work after someone that shouldn't have touched it in the first place. It's really time consuming to turn chicken poop into chicken salad, not to mention the level of aggravation... TH-cam is a great tool for these jobs. Customer gets to see first hand the efforts to make it right and documents that you didn't create this mess.
Couldn't agree more!
Great video! Just curious, what brand of crank is that?
Gm ls9
The crankshaft position wheel seems massively unbalanced - holes V's Solid, seems odd to add an un-balanced piece when it could have perfect primary balance !
What i would try and i know you have something against not doing it. When have both end heavy and cant drill on one end i do start coming to center to dill i pulls down both sides on problem banlance jobs . I dont like doing scat cranks seam like they always land on impossible spots to drill
Is it possible to remove the mallory, weld all the holes from the balancing and mallory, then start over with the balancing? Have you ever seen mallory come out of the crank at high RPM when it is close to the edge of the counterweight? BTW, you have the best engine machining channel I have ever watched. I always learn something from your videos. Thank You for that.
I could, but ultimately it's cost prohibited, normally there's no issues with heavy metal coming out, unless there was a installation error.
@@powellmachineinc3179 I personally would have bought a new crankshaft and hung that one on a wall as a horror story. Thank you and have a great day.
Man, did someone balance the crankshaft in their barn? Is there a reason why you can’t use a little cutting fluid when drilling the crankshaft?
Another great video! Other than don't do it, do you have any tips on lighting a crank to avoid creating a nightmare to balance?
Ultimately you have got to have enough counterweight to offset the rods and pistons, not many cranks can be lightened.
The radius wasn’t right on the first spin.
This might be a stupid but, In the beginning with this crap 15:19 being so screwed up could you press the heavy metal out of the crankshaft and filled it with a round bar stock of what the crankshaft is made out of and just started from scratch? As expensive as Mallory Metal is in the process of going through this multiple times. Wouldn’t it just been cheaper to buy a new crank?
So at this point the customer would be better to just buy a forged crank. . Bring the new one to u. Then have the new one checked..way easier. Cheaper for the customer... Less BS for you. !
I'm with you. At some point you have to turn it down.
Swiss cheese thank you for all of the great work and videos
Glad you like them!
Third wheel .
Not been paid a fair rate for the labor involved is how many shops end up with 'sign'
"Out Of Business"
Could you do a video on how to setup that balancer? I always wonder what those blocks screwed to the journals are.
Definitely ar some point
I agree leave the crap out of the shop
Definitely