How do WE Balance YOUR 383 Stroker?
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Thank you to www.uempistons... for supporting us with a set of flat top forged pistons for this build!
We're moving forward on the 383 stroker build and in this week's video we walk through the process of balancing the rotating assembly!
Our rotating assembly was NOT purchased as a pre-balanced assembly, although it is a common combination of parts when building a 383 stroker. As such, we did go through the process to balance the assembly.
Make sure you check out the entire playlist if you haven't!
• Building A 383 Stroker...
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#383stroker #automotivemachining #jimsautomotivemachineshop
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Love it, that you’re pulling back the veil and showing more in depth engine work that most people never see keep the videos coming.
That's my goal! Help our customers (and the customers of our peers) understand what really goes into quality machine work.
I used to run a gas turbine repair facility and we'd spin 2000 lb fully bladed compressor rotors in a vacuum. I saw one jump off the rollers once, blew through the roof of the chamber, crawled up the 40 foot shop wall and land about 200 feet into the parking lot. Every time a see a shaft spinning now I pucker just a little bit. Great Job guys, you do great work!
I have never seen this type of work done. What an amazing job. Please continue with these great videos. I sit at the computer watching in awe.
Thanks, will do!
i love this channel .. if all familys had this type of relationship our planet would be so much happier
True that. My family is more like World War III...
And Marxism hates families. Transgenic risk and gender confusion reduces good family outcomes.
The world is lacking community
This makes me miss my dad...I'm 63 had plenty of cranks balanced but never witnessed one being done....thanks to the both of you for sharing your time & talent...ps I'm a pontiac guy (hint hint)
👍😎👌
Love this channel, you 2 are so lucky to work together like this, my father past away and I would give anything to do what you to do together, keep uploading videos, it makes my day
Whole new level of respect for what yall do love the channel and content 🤙
I knew someone who bought a salvage yard 400 SBC, but didn't want to spend the extra $25 for the flexplate. Used the old 350 plate instead. Yep shook like a paint mixer!
Lol
I knew a guy that done this as well. Put it together and drove about a mile. Broke 2 rods and spit the block up around the cam. Also one of the rods put a nice inspection hole in the side of the block.
Bought a 77 Chevy from a friend in highschool. Had a 400 small block... they said... somehow my other friend found a 400sbc before i bought the truck. Yep you guess it they swapped a 350 in place of the 400 and never said a word to me.
@@mashidaho1298did you beat the shit out of them for that? Or at least cut them off?
@disturbedrocks1996 never bought anything from them again
I was young and dumb at the time, didnt know enough to know id been dooped until i went to sell the motor as a 400 and was told otherwise by the casting number. You live and learn.
Nice work, fellas. Hats off to the Cleaning Guy!!!
I used to balance rotating assemblies for pumps, turbine’s etc, but not engines.
Nice to see the care and attention to detail here.
I think you just made an internal balance recip assembly 'kit' into an externally balanced assembly. Just remove the balance pad off the flywheel and keep both ends neutral balance. (smaller drilling to get your ends to come in balance) Or am i (probably) missing something?
If they were to spin the finish balanced crank without that flywheel weight or flywheel for that matter it would be out if I remember right around 160grams, ADD weight to the counter weight.
And it will mess the front up a fair amount also. Surprisingly.
You didn't miss anything at all. Well stated.
Had experience carrying cranks from the old Stewart Warner strobing balancer to drill holes .Then the boss got what you have with the integral drill .Big game changer ,get one when you can .Enjoy your videos.
I learned how to balance on one of those SW machines. This new stuff is much easier to get job done quicker.
Working at a small shop in Florida and we just got our first balancer as well. Glad to have some great content like this to compare ourselves to. Love your stuff
I admire all the extra effort you guys put into your work shows you are a great machine shop
It's good for gearheads to see the common machining processes in real time. It makes it very easy to see that your machinist didn't charge enough for the work he did. Add on tooling costs and realize the poor guy is giving his work away.
It looks like if you just removed the counter weight bolted to the flywheel it would just cancel out the needed two big holes that you made on the right side of the crank, they seem to be both on the same axis. Very good and detailed video, I just love watching you guys, thanks and greetings from a subscriber from Qatar!
I thought the same thing. Would've took 1min to pull it off and spin it up. I've seen those cranks come in both ways. Neutral that needed counter weight and external balance that came in neutral.
That weight on the flywheel is set out quite a distance from the crank center line. The weight calculated is based on the diameter of the crank balancer diameter... in other words, it wouldnt work to remove that weight. It would make a bunch more problems.
Did you test the balance with the weight removed from the flywheel? Would it have been better to knock some weight off there to save drilling the crank so much? or is that a normal amount of weight to remove from a crank counterweight?
You want to do it from the crank so if in the future you have to replace the counterweighted flex plate or flywheel with a new one the assembly will remain balanced.
Nice balance job. My best balance was .02 and .03, on a early 350.
I sure miss doing that stuff! From what I remember it was pretty typical on the one piece seal 3.750 cranks to have to drill quite a bit in the exact same spot, if memory serves! Great job love the videos
I knew that balancing was detailed and time-consuming, but I didn't realize to what extent. Thanks for the enlightenment.
I've found that balancing the clutch cover is something many people overlook. I've had some as much as 20 grams out
100% agree, I usually take the pressure plate/cover as part of the rotating assembly when I have things balanced for my personal stuff or customer builds.
You guys got room for an apprentice? I’ve got a camper on my truck and I’d drive to your shop and stay in my camper just to be taught by you 2. I really love your channel. While I know how to turn wrenches and weld…. I’d really love to get on another level. The level you guys so constantly prove. You guys are real pros. Thanks for the content. I learn so much.
It is a great enjoyment to see fathers and son to share the same passion and the real professionalism they put into it on every level.
Then you hear them say: “the cleaning guy”, if one would just imagine that the cleaning guy is the soul and matter of the whole operation.
Never saw such detail In balancing an engine. You guys do a great job.
I am 86 years old and look forward to your videos each day.
Tell us a little more about the clean up guys farming. Do you plant corn every year ?
Thanks,
Joe Roberts
Birmingham, Al
Your attention to detail will show up in the way this motor runs. Excellent work!
I have the same passion for balance. But, back in my crankshaft grinding days, I noticed that quite often the crank pins were not exactly on the degrees that they were supposed to be. Essentially I'd treat each pin(journal) as it's own sphere....it may have been off by 3 degrees maybe. But, no way can grinding make up for that. Twist over time? Bad OEM machining? Beats me. But, after seeing that with crankshaft angles, it made me regard balancing parts as not being all that important. There is far more to balancing than just weight of pieces. I was weighting rings when the journals were so far off seemed sorta silly.
Absolutely correct, I never see this brought up before, especially on small block chevys.
I am 63, i have always wanted to buy a 1970 302 convertible mustang like i had in high school, and make horse power. Not any more and man am i glad i didn't "try this at home"! I had NO IDEA all that is involved. And no wonder this cost what it does. I will now be satisfied vicariously watching "real pros". Thanks men, enjoy these videos.
So much handwork done. Nice tools and computer.
Nice explanation. Remember having a crank for a blown alcohol engine balanced which they used Mallory plugs for balance
Boy I sure enjoyed this one! I’ve been building performance engines for over 50 years and I always farm out the machine work (obviously) and this was the first time I saw how it was actually done. What a great learning video. Kudos
Why ‘obviously’? I also build performance engines for myself but can do everything except grind cranks in house including all machine work, head work, flowing, dynoing…. With time and care I can do a much more precise job than you could pay most people to do.
@@odl21 there is so much information on the internet these days on how to build things, that you no longer have to rely on a performance shop for some of these tasks you did when I was a young fella. But I don't think I ever put an engine together where I didn't at least do a Clayton's balance on it (heaviest piston to the lightest rod etc). Same with matching rings to bores. Sometimes you don't need fancy tools, you just need to think and have patience to do things right.
@@odl21 Well that’s just dandy for you!
“Knife-edge” that counterweight. We used this technique in our engines along with a “crank scraper” metal strip that kept more oil in the bottom AND slightly lessened parasitic power loss. We also used “Mallory metal” which is much heavier than the crank material. Holes would be drilled into the counterweight parallel to the crank and mallory metal would be pressed in and tacked.
I'd mark the pistons and rods with letters instead of numbers for weight matching purposes just because if that writing survives and you're not the next person in it, it might be a little confusing. Then reserve the numbers for the cylinders they go in to. 😀
The markings are to serve the machine shop whilst the parts are in a pristine condition. If the engine is later disassemebled, a competant mechanic will always mark the piston-rod assemblies before they are removed from the engine - that's standard practice that all apprentices are taught.
Thanks for your time guys! Way to sneak up near zero; I hope your balancer doesn't upset the apple cart. Looking forward to the assembly!
I love your atention to detail and how chill and humble you are. many gauys will say theyre the best and everyone else is trash but you are a breath of fresh air
I wish we could hear the ones you worked on running and purring sweet sound of a balanced engine.
Awesome as usual guys
One Q?, what would happen if you removed that counter weight from the flywheel befor drilling. It sems to line up with the big hole you had to drill
Love your work👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
If you remove the flywheel it may improve the situation - not sure. However you then have to balance the flywheel as a 'stand-alone' item which adds cost. My preference would be to balance crank, flywheel, harmonic balancer and clutch pressure plate as seperate items so the latter three can be balanced seperately if they need to be replaced during the life of the engine.
Thank you for your open honest presentation have a great day gentlemen.
Love that you all share these in depth detailed videos!
Thank you Fellas & Mom ! - Explains why the machine bill is what it is !! Great work & THANX
I love the honesty... great business model
I WOULD LOVE TO GET TO USE THOSE TOOLS EVERY DAY, INCLUDING ALL YOUR DAD'S HEAD GUIDANCE HE GIVES YOU .
DADDY CLEANING GUY
You calling him a tool? 😂 Just kidding
Why are you yelling???
SPEEK UP LIBRUL
love me @@arichy4201
Enjoyed watching the process
Good job! I have sent many a crank to be balanced and always wondered how it was done. Thank You!
Great job guys. Great video. Congrats on your results.
I enjoyed what I cought was the last half or so but as long as I'm learning I'm in good video I think I'll stick around 👍
Awesome video! Learn something new each time I watch you guys work. Watching the metal removal and thought I'd suggest an inexpensive shop vac be used to pull those chips away and maybe reduce cleanup time and help keep the area chip free.
That's a cool process and very educational!
Did anyone else see the front of the crank where the harmonic balancer goes wobbling? I would say that has a whole lot to do with the Burlenson of it. It would be just like a bent rim.
I work in an engine machine shop for six years actually a little over five years and I loved that type of work. But life happens and I got old. I wish I had stuck with it. I was about 25 years old when I started and worked till I was a little over 30 at the machine shop. I loved boring and sleeving blocks reconditioning rods, and balancing them.
Good job! I just built 2 383 ,one with a scat crank other with eagle crank .both was drilled just like you done,the scat had 4 drilled holes,eagle had 3 holes.
Between y’all and Gerald at Brand racing engines I’m learning a lot about what goes into machining engines.
Why can’t you just go ahead and make that 383 completely internally balanced complete with an internally balance man trans flywheel like a 350 instead of the much more difficult to acquire 400 flywheel?
It’s an honest question that I’ve often thought about and I’d really like someone to educate me.
on a production engine rebuilt with production parts, just equalizing the weight of the pistons and of the connecting rods usually makes a very perceptible differenge .
I always equalize the weight of the piston /pin / conrod assemblies within 1 gram when I rebuild a marine engine, it makes a very perceptible difference.
Awesome video! I love your dad’s comments “ I took a nap and then let’s go super don’t make the cook mad”. 👍
Great Textbook balance Job guys,....Even almost running out of Counterweight, Youmade Perfection seem easy !! ..... Show us the Job one when the Hole needs to be in the Middle of Empty space & you have to really Work for your Money !!
Or just off the edge of the CW. Can't remove weight switch to add and no place to add weight. Tweener my ex boss and I called them! Lol
Those SUCK!
Fortunately the crank manufacturers have improved that..... mostly.
Awesome video. Love the content. Just subbed 🤙🏼
Half my working life “on the tools” vs half in an office and I finished up with 18 months making carbon fibre parts for McLarens / Aston Martins. If I could start again, butchers and machine shop (assuming I had the talent) would be my choice. The happiest I’ve been at work was always where there was something to physically show for it at the end of the day.
Fantastic video guys.
Don’t forget to check all rods for twist and bend and to re torque the bolts with arp luge and check big end sizes and most importantly wrist pin clearance
New Motto .... It's Not just an engine, it's an adventure
I learn so much from these videos thank you
Great job, guys!
Love these videos. Learning a lot. Wish you were closer to where I live.
Loving the build guys 👌🏻🇬🇧
That counterweight on the flywheel could have come off since you're balancing it internally
I thought that too. I'm sure it's there for a reason or they would have removed it.
I have complete confidence that they know what they're doing.
I just had my scat crank balanced and the mCcloud flywheel came with 2 different counterweights and they put the smaller of the 2 on my flywheel, i wondered the same thing
probably already done.🔧
This was a great video,I learned so much thank you.
Beaumont, Texas here
Definitely much easier with a drill over the balancer. I use a turner brothers setup mounting onto Bridgeport
Great video and really interesting to see things that an every day shade tree doesn’t get to experience. Thank you !
0:31 Nap time! 14:42 Great work! Cleaning guy gets another raise and maybe a new broom!
I enjoy watching your videos and hope one day I can send you a motor. I would like to learn and watch it be done!
Fantastic work yet again. This is what it’s all about. Love it. 🙂
When I leave the bonds of this earth and ride off to my own personal Valhalla, I am going to have my own machine shop like these guys and build lots and lots of cool stuff. With a harem of never complain cooks as well. 😅😂👍
Nice work gentleman, and happy birthday young man. I can say that because I am 12 years your senior. Keep on smiling.
Wow.. so much time and labor to balance a rotating assembly. And folks wonder why it's not cheap to balance their engines.
Nice job!
Very interesting process . Thanks for sharing .
Very interesting! Thanks fur the explanation.
I love the balancing. I’ve seen some high dollar cranks that were pretty Swiss cheesed.
Wonderful content,thank you for sharing and keep it coming guys,
Good on ya boys!
1958 best year ever Happy Birthday ,
My father was born in that year also
Love watching you to work together
Question: what is the difference in what you are doing and you here it’s balanced and blue printed? Just asking for my own personal information. Thanks for sharing, enjoy your channel!
They just showed you the balance part of balanced and blueprinted. Blueprinting a block is more or less measuring different clearances and heights to make sure the casting is to spec. There is more involved in Blueprinting but thats a general explanation.
@@mikebougher3731
thanks for the explanation!!!
Very impressive, nice work
I put off watching this vid thinking it would be boring. I could not have been more wrong, 17 minutes flew by and I'm honestly looking forward to seeing what happens when the balancer/timing gear gets installed.
Very Informative Video!!! Great work! 😉👍🏽
Minnesota here.
Curious...what's the repeatability of that machine if you break down and re-setup without changing anything? My experienxe only lies within wheel balancing where repeatability often is a variable otherwise you end up chasing weights
Well, to my knowledge and externally balanced flywheel doesn't work because when you bolt on a pressure plate and also the clutch disc clamps up in variegated balances. The crank should have been internally balanced for the manual trans application. I found out the hard way and so has many an engine builder. Additionally maybe you didn't show it but when that weight came at that local on the back counter, I'd have taken that flywheel off and spun it. Money says the weight would have changed significantly. So if you're sticking to the external balance page then you'd better have the clutch cover bolted on there and spin it. Good luck.
Should you wish to spend a bit more time, after balancing the crankshaft on "Sum" or "Total" meaning both ends combined, you could then attach the pressure plate for a separate balance of that unit; assuming you isolated each end for balance, then spun both together. If not, good luck. The type of machine you are using is close, but not accurate compared to the old Stewart-Warner 2000 series machines. These machines required a minimum of 6 months for proper technique, with today's average labor force lasting only 4-5 months at a shop anyway, hence the "hurry up/good enough type machines that spin the crank at a set RPM, programmed by the crankshaft counterweight diameter. The only means of double-checking your balance on this machine is to increase the RPMs above the programmed amount and let it come back down to see if there is any out-of-balance noted on the dial. The other fact for precision balancing is to position the bob weights vertically, instead of horizontally to achieve maximum balance. Testing in both positions will prove that this vertical position shows additional "out of balance" compared to the lesser reading when mounted horizontally. When you visit old-time professional race engine builders, you will notice one or two of the old Stewart-Warner 2000 units sitting there for their best balance results of engines of that time as Ed Pink and others, one example was ABS Balancing Service in CA. The one-mentioned suggestion for "knife edging" was excellent, and prevented oil slobber and frothing from additional holes in the crankshaft stirring liquids up. The average customer fails to understand the horse-power gain from "internally balancing" a crankshaft and sees only the large extra pricing due to the amount of Tungsten/Mallory required. Please remember, the closer you move to the center, the more weight it takes to achieve the same result as the smaller weight on the flywheel. I spent 22 years on a Stewart-Warner 2000 strobe/tube type machine, plus other modern machines such as the fixed rpm machines. Pistons & rods should be marked accordingly for the consumer's future replacement needs.
@@madewithscraps interesting and yeah I've spent a few years building and in the machine shops both experimenting and outright building. I'm old school where you couldn't just buy from a catalog or vender. I was taught that any job worth doing... So your statement of spending a lot of time falls into that refrain also. From the planning of the recipe to the blueprinting it didn't matter. You're also quite right, the individuals entering the trade today don't care about why you have to plug in the toaster, just that you push the leaver and out pops toast a few seconds later. The what or why matters not to them much less the time to learn them. Just ask them about what color the wall is. They don't care that it's colorless without light. There is no way they want to learn the hard way. I've had a young man asking for a job claim a skill is that he could "build a fast motor" in some video game. I don't remember the manufacturer or model of the first balancer I worked on but the owner of the machine shop made me do the weights and show him my math as well as documentation before the crank even got spun one time. The needles would sweep and show us where the modifications were needed and sometimes Pat would say we can't pull from here because there was no counter weight to drill so we'd have to move to the other end and figure out where to place the weight or remove some. I didn't know the indexing of the weights was a double check but do remember doing it. I also remember him slowing and speeding up the spin with the dial on the control panel. I seem to recall also taking from each balance pad or piston strut because he didn't like the total weight even though I'd gotten the weights within a gram. His father was the owner machinist before it became his so I'm sure his dad Red Adams showed him
So well stated for today's time and attitudes towards a genuine "good job". Funny statement regarding the "build a fast engine". Anybody can achieve that feat, but can you make it stay together and for how long? I was fortunate enough to graduate from a trade school, then progressed to a college majoring in "Automotive Technology", plus working at machine shops, starting at the Hot Tank, then the privilege of re-grinding camshafts on Saturday afternoons, eventually working my way into the shop, starting with knurling the thrust side of pistons for rebuilds out front. From there cut the rod & main caps for the head machinist, then sized the rod's large ends, pin fitting for oversized pins on the small end, install new rod pin bushings, and finally to the Sunnen align-hone machine. All this after college and a 50-mile round trip in the opposite direction from school. After lacking a raise from my initial shop, I was employed at the 2nd largest engine building plant on the assembly line with 6 of us one on each side stationed at a small table, and allowed only an electric nonadjustable impact wrench for assembly of the entire engine. I built the old Y-block Ford engines for the "U.D" " plane totes for Miramar Air Base, being responsible for any "yo-yo" and having to go to the field and perform repairs alone if any mistakes were made. Thank goodness all my engines got run on the Dino first before going out! Throughout my young adulthood, worked for many machine shops, also renting spaces in garages for mechanical work on vehicles to pay my way through college. I loved my shop and enjoyed producing a fine product no matter what it came in as. Each engine was balanced in "inch ounces", and priced accordingly, squared on the decks, cranks ground, blocks bored and precession honed, with cylinder heads all equipped with bronze valve guides and all new stainless valves, hard exhaust seats, multi-angle valve job, and springs, valve locks, Viton or Teflon stem seals, etc. By myself, I averaged 1-2 complete engines, plus 2-3 sets of cylinder heads per week, and was always busy. If there is a "Heaven", it will have a hot tank, boring bar, balance machine, rod machine, and cylinder head set-ups-LOL@@irench
@@madewithscraps Well we both been put through the schools of hard knocks. September marks 40 yrs as a professional technician. Alignments to machine shops. Completely agree, anyone can build a time bomb engine. Mexican built 3.0 mits from a caravan just last year put it in the customer's van against my better judgement but not another "rebuilt" or pieces to make one to be had. It leaked and made a metal grinding scream before I could get it up to check for leaks. Pan off later had gray metal in the oil. NEXT. lol.
You also said some horror words to me. Had a client bring me a 55 Capri and the local machine shop said "no problem" to a rebuild of that Y block. 10 years later, custom pistons from Gregg at Jegs. Even Egge didn't have them. Machinists around here are sheit. I couldn't solve the riddles because I'm not that old and all the stuff was destroyed. I got the number of an old Dyno and machine shop owner long retired Mark from M&J was kind enough to help me through it. All while his wife was dying. I've been to Jasper in 94 when they were still east of the Old Miss as was I. I do enjoy watching Lake Speed Jr and all the others of the Engine Expo channel. Most of my career I spent doing drivability and electrical as I foolishly went against the advice of some mentors back years ago. I have owned this shop for 18 yrs as I couldn't stand to slimmy businessmen of this town after just a few years living here. I hope heaven has dogs and my widow. For me I'm not even going to sema this year. My bud was complaining, I told him I've had enough of the catalog rich bitches paying people like his cousin Troy to build million dollar cars. Oh,, I got the itch to make a sand bagged door slammer to take some youngsters down the track. Then pull the bags for me and another friend to get there in just over 10. My days of building certified chassis are no more too.
Keep up the Splendid attitude and work habits. Drivability diagnosis is underappreciated, and time-consuming, while most ignore how important it really is for a proper repair, now just throwing parts at it and charging big bucks. What will the world do when we "Dinosaurs" are gone? The shop owner in this video, regardless of his work shown is indeed fortunate to have his son with him, enjoying and learning the "lost trade" of machine shops in today's world. For the short time I had my youngest son with me at my shop, was a really productive and enjoyable time. The shame of most automotive engines being non-refurbishable today is the intent to force a person still in debt from their purchase of the car, to increase that debt and buy another. I hope the gentleman and his son enjoy enough street motor jobs to keep making a living. There is no real "Profit" in High-Performance engine work, simply that "warm & fuzzy feeling" at the end of completion. @@irench
I am enjoying this engine build.
Interesting title. I would be getting the crank and piston/rods checked/balanced on every performance engine before assembly, no matter what the literature says. Very entertaining and time consuming process.
Titles are meant to be interesting to bring people in 😂
TH-cam titles really have very little to do with anything in the video lol
@@JAMSIONLINEthis one hack makes 40 billion more horsepower, engine builders hate this guy!
"I do cars" just tore apart a 6.0L powerstroke. Kinna funny when he pulls the drain plug to see what comes out. Four valves stuck open.
Like a rizzla paper ! Awesome guys
Good Job !
So interesting
Thank you for the class
Doesn't a 383 require an externally balanced harmonic balancer? That may be why your balancer told you to remove a boatload of weight off the rear counterweight
Depends on the crankshaft, this one is specifically made for a 383 and not a reground 400 crank.
But they make a 383 internally balanced crankshaft also
This particular crank is sold as and intended to be external rear and internal front.
Yes you can get fully internal 383 rotating assemblies. For a price.
A 400 has external weights on both the flywheel and harmonic balancer. Seems odd that this engine only has it on the flywheel
The dad said the balancer was supposed to be zero balanced, in other words no offset weight. So it wouldn't matter if the balancer was on or off during balancing.
Very cool process
That 383 is going to purr. 👍
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
Funny that the heavy drilling was removing material at almost the exact same place that the weight on the flywheel was adding material. It makes you wonder if it would have been close to balanced with an un-weighted flywheel.
"almost the exact same place" and "the exact same place" are two very different things. The largest drill location is nearly 90 degrees out from the center of the weight on the flywheel. The weight on the flywheel is also around an inch further out on radius, and weighs ~150 grams. Without that weight on the flywheel, the crankshaft would be far enough out it would be trying to throw itself off of the machine. The crankshaft is designed for a weighted flywheel, and this is the flywheel we were recommended to use by the manufacturer. In the grand scheme of things, the weight removed is actually very small when compared with what you see on most crankshafts.
Just out of interest but why do you not have the clutch on the flywheel? I’ve watched other engine builders who insist on balancing the crank with the clutch that is being used.
Outstanding channel, thank you.
my first thought when I saw how much weight it wanted you to drill out of the crankshaft was to remove that big honking weight on the flywheel. but I have no idea how much it weighs. the spots where you removed most of the material ar close to that spot.