@@Tigerkaya No, the timeline did get erased in Timeless, but he was probably still Captain of the Challenger in the main timeline. That's why he's Captain in STO, and, in my opinion, STO is canon, but that's debatable.
Burton Directed that Voyager episode (Timeless)! So he, in essence, did it to himself in that one. But he is a great director and led some outstanding ST episodes.
He did eventually get the girl. He and Leah got married, and had three children, in a timeline they subsequently destroyed, in which he and all his friends were killed anyway. God dammit TNG.
Came to say exactly this. I found the comment in All Good Things, that he had ended up with Liah both a nice nod, and at the same time a terrible sentiment "Keep stalking that unavailable woman kids, eventually you'll get your own way!"
@@ryougahibiki941 the person or persons writing that probably got rejected time and again by someone they had similar feelings for and were making it so at least their sci-fi hero could actually get there even if they couldn't. To quote Batman "I can't condone it, but I do understand it"
@@1IbramGaunt i doubt that. It probably was just a small nod to an episode or couple of episodes the writer liked... it's hard enough to make up relevant things to spin into an episode like that which give you the impression of 20 or 30 years of character development and "life going on" without filling the script with walls of exposition... going with something fans would understands and non fans would not be irritated or thrown out of the story by is an elegant shortcut. And it's still less creepy than Robert Beltran demanding they write Chakotay and Seven becoming a couple into the last season of Voyager... *yech*
Steve, this one was genuinely really funny and a great study on how behaving this way is no longer normal, let alone acceptable...I reckon acting like Geordi would have been pretty normal in the late 80s though.
I started laughing and then I wondered, no joke: I wonder what computer / engine program would consider a smoke afterwards...it WAS the 80s / early 90s and that was still very common to see in movies and shows of the time.
@@seanmiller8701 She's an empath who can feel the emotions of people who are thousands of miles away just by seeing them on a viewscreen... I'd assume feeling the emotions of one of her best friends who probably spends a lot of the day less than a thousand feet away from her shouldnt be too hard...
@@karatwilight She got on the show because she asked to be. She was a big fan of the original and how Roddenberry overcame the stereotypes and made minorities (Uhura, Sulu) people of stature and professionalism.
As soon as you mentioned psychological torture, I knew this was where you were going. Having real-Leah show up was one of the most cringe-worthy moments of ST:TNG. Of course, real life is often cringe-worthy...
I always thought that moment was kind of odd, because the twist was that it wasn’t actually an engineering test, it was a test to see if she could make tough calls and sacrifice someone for the sake of the ship, but the whole time I was just sitting there thinking “okay but what if she actually doesn’t know shit about engineering though? That seems pretty important; I feel like there should be an actual engineering test”. Also why would you sacrifice the CHIEF ENGINEER during the middle of a crisis??? Wouldn’t you still need him to oh, I don’t know, fix the ship that just nearly blew up???
I had forgotten this line from Booby Trap, after Geordi asks about Leah's personality: COMPUTER: Access denied. Personal logs are restricted. LAFORGE: Great. Another woman who won't get personal with me in the holodeck.
That scene where Geordi is tortured by the Romulans gave me nightmares. It's horrific and they never deal with the ramifications of what was done to him.
I've been blind my whole life, so Geordi was important to me growing up. I agree his romantic life really could/should have been handled differently. If you look at season #1, it is in away. At least women seem more into him and he seems in the 'friend-zone' more by choice. Anyway, I can also agree with you Steve. While dating was sometimes fun, i was very ready and happy to settle down with my wife...its been 10 years of marriage for us now...time flies, cheers.
When I was a teenager this seemed perfectly normal to me. It was only many years later I realized the issues with it. It's unfortunate it had to be the hard way. Thanks for making this video.
Like many, I also cringed hard at this plotline when I came across it the first time. It's so clumsily handled, it's like every single writer who participated on that episode had never spoken to a real human woman before in their entire life. I did appreciate that we got a connection between seasons, however. Having the situation be set up in season 3 and then furthered in season 4 was not as common as it is now, and I did like that about it. A shame the actual idea was so poorly handled. I also thought it was such a waste to have this little note when later they just rehash it with Barclay. This could have been an opportunity to show that sometimes you can do everything "right" and the woman still won't be interested in you: They aren't prizes to be won for behaving in a particular way. Instead, they wrote it exactly like a horny teenage boy might see the situation, and that's sad.
a lot of men think women are suppsoed to be cartain way, then get frustrated when they dont see results. Its easier to jus deal with the pain by swearing off women all together than develop a better personality that includes empathy.
Three? I know he hooked up with Tasha Yar for a night of steamy robot passion in "The Naked Now" and he tried (and failed) to have a romantic relationship with the very lovely Ensign Jenna D'Sora in "In Theory", but who was the third?
Rick Berman and to a lesser extent also Brannon Braga believed HARD in the "toy box" ... put your characters back into storage after an episode just like you took them out to play with...
I'd love to see a Quark Trek Actually. I'm going back through DS9 for the first time in years and I forgot just how great he is as a character. Maybe something about the differences between him and Guinan.
Dustin Swafford Quark was super interesting, his root beer analogy was awesome, and he helped raise Nog, who was a war hero, and the first ferengi to join star fleet.
Until ds9 they were really just sniveling one dimensional antagonist characters. I'm glad they gave them a lot of back story thru Quark. Plus they brought a lot of humor to the show.
I read this as "I'd love to see a Quark Trek (series), actually" instead of "I'd love to see a Quark (topic) Trek Actually" at first. And now I kind of want a Trek series that's actually following a Ferengi businessman just doing business with the Federation.
@@skeletorkahn For a minute there I thought Quark had a human first and middle name that I missed from the show. Like Moogi would bust them out when Quark was really bad. DUSTIN SWAFFORD QUARK, YOU GET YOUR LOBES IN HERE RIGHT THIS INSTANT!
LaVar is just such a wonderful guy. We actually exchanged a few letters when I was in kindergarten. Between his role as Geordi, Reading Rainbow, and his personal encouragement, he was a major inspiration in my early life. Figures that I would grow up to become an author/illustrator. I think this also has a lot to do with why I love Geordi's character, despite how poorly the writers handled him sometimes.
To be honest with you. The crew on all the star trek shows tends to be amazing people. Strange new worlds was my experience on the show. Dude who plays spock is super friendly and kind.
It would have been better if Geordi didn't behave in such a childish way even when she discovers his little secret on the holodeck. A frustrated outburst I can honestly understand, but that he just stormed off afterwards, and didn't apologise properly for not being open about the whole thing earlier, wasn't what I'd call gentlemanly behaviour. And Geordi's the type of guy who seems to pride himself in that sort of standard, so it's all the more disappointing. As Steve said, he could have used that sort of role model - someone who admits to an infatuation and isn't ashamed of it, but can also apologise if it seems rude and inappropriate. (Then those epilogue scenes could've even worked properly.) Steve's right that the episode is a bit of a missed opportunity. Even though I bet the writers wanted Geordi to come across as a little more inexperienced, they overdid it. He often comes across as more of a rude, entitled prick. That's not really like him, IMHO.
DrTssha I think Sublime is saying Geordi falling for Dr. Brahms in “Booby Trap” was the booby trap for the second episode. Geordi certainly was a boob at any rate.
Thank you! I am so glad someone has pointed these things out. I spent all of ST: TNG waiting for a decent episode featuring Geordi and it never happened. He was given a few moments to shine, but they were rare. Most of the time, as you've said, he was abducted, tortured, mutated by a parasite, accidentally left behind (or on purpose in the episode Timescape), used as a ragdoll in the turbolift in Contageon, left in a phased state by a transporter accident. Even the hologram of him in Thine Own Self wasn't safe, as Troi sent it on a suicide mission. La Forge was an awesome character to follow, and Levar Burton was brilliant in the role, but ultimately he was given underwhelming storylines.
Hi Steve I just watched an I interview with the Levar Burton and he "briefly" spoke about Geordi's creepy interactions with women on the old show (I'm assuming he was mainly talking about the Dr. Brahms episodes). Anyway he said he had problems with his character doing those things but, the studio had final say. I was happy to hear that the actor also didn't like how his character treated women. He actually said that one of his criteria for coming back was that if Geordi had any female romantic interaction on "Picard" season 3 it wouldn't be creepy. I'm just happy to know Levar Burton is an upstanding guy and, doesn't view women as objects. ....... Ok Steve now I have poke the bear a little 😋 because I know how you feel about this BUT... I wish his wife on the new show was Dr. Brahms! Okay Steve now I'm going to duck and run-bye! 🤣
Theory (because i dint have a better Name for it): The Holodeck is just like a djini. It can fulfill all your desired wishes. Just not always in the way you expected. Djini like to twist the wishes of their owners in a way that often ends in catastrophes. Just like the holodeck. So not the nice djini like in Aladdin but the cunning djini that always tries to trick you (Sorry can't express it very well. English isn't my first language)
You make it sound as if the rest of the main characters had healthy long-term relationships. None of them did. Not during this series. Unfortunately, Chief O'Brien & Keiko don't count here. Picard lost one girlfriend to the job and the other to Q. Ironically, it was Picard and Q that may have shared the longest-running romance of the entire show. Bouts of jealousy aside, Will & Diana were not actually dating during the series. Will was portrayed as a serial dater, which may explain him being framed for murder by a femme fatale. He also was seen falling for an androgynous pilot that would later be brainwashed. Diana was impregnated during a speed date with a space cloud and used a vessel for a negotiator's bad karma which led to a fling with a rando. Data was hung--up on a brief sexual encounter with Tasha Yar brought on by space drunkenness. His later experiment with dating was an abject failure. Doctor Crusher had a romance with a guy that immediately ascended to a higher plane of existence or maybe he just had commitment issues. She had a brief encounter with a Trill that immediately changed genders or maybe just had commitment issues. She also ran away with an energy vampire that killed her great aunt I suppose her friendly dinners with Picard were venturing into romantic territory. Wesley went on serval dates and faired well with the young ladies before he decided to go "traveling' with a cosmic entity of undetermined gender. Then there's Worf... I dig the video, but I'm not sure why you signaled out Geordi for his romantic woes. There was plenty to go around.
While none of the other characters really had romantic relationships that worked out, that was mostly because of plot-related circumstances, whereas Geordi was the only one who was shown to be specifically bad at dating. Hologram Leah was probably the closest he got to that kind of “one-off love interest who’s written off by the end of the episode” storyline that all of the other characters had.
Your paraphrases of the script are (as usual) very entertaining. (c: Good points too. Even Barclay doesn't come off this badly. And Social-Awkwardness is HIS core characteristic.
It's not the Geordi fell in love with a hologram, it's that he projected the fantasy of that hologram onto the actual human person who shared it's face and got upset when she wasn't everything he'd made up. Riker arguably fell in love with Minuette (I think it's more accurate to say he was seduced deliberately, for a much shorter period of time) but he didn't then go yell at the 'actual' Minuette for not being exactly like the hologram version. There was no real version of her, and he never projects any of her qualities onto people he wants to date.
You're all very right, that does make it much creepier. I just don't think he was wrong necessarily for falling for the projection, or at least the show suggests that it's very easy to do.
Being blind myself, I have mixed feelings about Geordi’s portrayal as a blind person. The fact that it’s easy to forget that he’s blind is excellent, and sometimes the writers use the visor to powerful effect in terms of plot and symbolism, but it’s always disappointed me that we don’t know what his eye condition is, and he doesn’t have very much of the psychology I encounter in most of my blind friends. Mostly they just occasionally have him express that he really, really, really wants to have normal vision. I don’t really have a problem with what they did with him; the missed opportunities are just disappointing. Case in point: when Deanna loses her empathic abilities and constantly compares herself to a blind person, whom does no one EVER suggest she talk to? They have a disabled person for the entire show, but the disability episode of TNG goes to Deanna?!
I just watched Episode "The Masterpiece Society" And I thought they did a great job there, I loved the line something like "technology coming from what was created for blind man to see helping to keep a society alive that would never have let him be born in the first place"
I love Geordi, so well played by Levar Burton what a legend! I trhink a lot of my interest in science and engineering came from him, Geordi for the win!!!!
Halfway through this video and OMG this may be the funniest episode of Trek Actually ever! You're section on dating, holy crap that was my life when I was dating. Absolutely hated dating!
I"m so mirror image here, I loved dating and flirting and all the romatical crayziness that ensues. I just fail at the maintenance part: not good at relationships (sigh)
I can't relate to dating, but then I've never really been on a date, so there is that. I did end up with a boyfriend in spite of that somehow though. Don't ask me how that works... But it didn't come about through something that you'd typically consider 'dating'. Yay for being super-awkward nerds I guess? XD
I don't know what changed, but this episode is on another level. The pacing, editing, and humor are pitch perfect and best I've ever seen from this series. A+. I can't wait to see your video on my precious, defenseless child, Star Trek Insurrection.
Before there was Harry Kim, there was Geordi Laforge. Honestly, he and Troi were the most abused and ill-used characters in Star Trek TNG. For all the progressiveness of the show, this always made me uncomfortable, especially since he's actually one of favorite characters in TNG, and he really had some of the best moments with Data. I'd argue his relationship with Data was better than the other characters. Romance is never done well in Star Trek. It NEVER goes well; it's always creepy or wrong or just plain bad. I mean, Star Wars has nothing but the most awkward, borderline-creepy romances, but at least you can see those working out with enough effort, but Trek is just cringy, and that's sad.
@@-_-_m Which is really Eddington's machinations. He definitely was involved with her repeated rendezvous in the Badlands, and dropped the hints to Sisko. It's left unsaid but I personally think he was the one who got her to help in the first place - "it's just medical supplies" and so forth. Especially since he was later said to be the leader of his cell and possibly the de-facto leader of other cells they regularly worked with.
I used to wonder how the holodeck got Leah so very wrong, but then I thought about two things from our modern world: email correspondence and targeted advertising. Perhaps, all of Leah's romantic letters to her then fiancee were also in some database somewhere, and when Geordi asked the computer to create her personality, it used them as well. Being a machine, it had now way to screen out the romantic cute stuff from the other data, so it got mixed in, giving us holo Leah. Or, all of Geordi's attempts to be a ladies man left whatever the 24th century equivalent of "cookies" are in the computer, and when it made this personality, it used said cookies to make holo Leah.
I disagree with this assessment completely. I found it very refreshing to have a black male character who wasn't a smooth talking ladies man with a revolving door on his bedroom. His awkwardness with women was endearing and part of his charm.
I live for your Star Trek dialogue paraphrasing, Steve. I actually love Leah as a recurring character (ish) and I wish they had brought her back again somehow. Continuity between eps in TNG is so rare I'll take the smallest crumbs!
To be fair, the drafting room at the Utopia Planitia Feetyards is not a very romantic locale. On the other hand, it is the holodeck. Load something else =)
Stamitz is still responsible for the thing that makes Discovery go vroom in space (sorry for that highly technical language) so he counts as a Chief Engineer.
I’ve been sitting here LITERALLY laughing out loud! Your witty take on his whole situation is spot on! “Was I not supposed to show her your super secret holodeck program?” LOL! Oh, and I totally want that shirt!!!
I would love to see an all engineers squad come together from all the Star Trek shows, hell even the ones people hate would still be fun to bring into the mix probably. I think their group could be called "The Warp Nacelles."
Thank you for another great episode of Trek Actually. I loved how every Guinan intro is "What the hell is your problem?" If it isn't already, that should be a running joke in your show. And I cracked up at the Facebook reference. P.S. Awesome double reference with the rainbow Starfleet Log, supporting LGBT Pride Month and Levar's Reading Rainbow. Whether you meant it or not, take the credit.
You could make a whole video of cringe-worthy relationship tropes from 90s and 80s sitcoms. I think that is why nobody really enjoyed Fuller House because they used the same tropes and they just don't work anymore. Hopefully, Geordi will be in "Picard", but it doesn't look like he will make any appearances in the first season.
You're right about how weird it was Geordi was basically assigned to be friends with Barclay or Scotty! I still love his friendship with Hugh, and given that you brought up Bochra too, it's those several episodes that I always call "Geordi La Forge Saves the Day With The Power of Friendship." Unlike Picard having to tell him to try to be friends, he organically showed how caring he was to Hugh and Bochra in those situations! Your comment about how Trek COULD'VE shown an unlucky-in-love character better also made me think about how DS9 was SO close, but so far, with Julian Bashir and Jadzia Dax. I really love him, in no small part due to Sid's acting even when the writing floundered (especially early on when they were figuring out what to do with the character, but Sid still gave 110%). But his pining for Jadzia... GAH. It was so good until the end of S6 - S3 and S4 both did an amazing job of showing how he and Jadzia had developed a beautiful, platonic friendship. Julian himself said it well in "Distant Voices", about how while he might still want a romantic relationship with her, he'd never trade their friendship. But then out of the absolute blue, YEARS after it was established he'd moved on, the end of S6 suddenly has Quark playing mind games with him and it's like that character development had never happened in the first place (and really, comparing him to QUARK there? He could be so awkward and all, but come on.) And then the less said about the choices made with Julian and Ezri throughout S7, the better. Sighhhhh.
Steve you speak of me when you talk about awkward dating. Me and my wife have been married 18 years this August, and prior to that, dating was so...bad for me. I’m definitely glad I found my “one for me”
I liked the delivery of Picard saying "Geordi do something about this", Picard knowing that his magic chief engineer can rustle up something like always must make ship problems boring.
I just find it hilarious that Riker growing the beard is acknowledged as the point where TNG starts to improve (to the point where a TV Tropes page is named after that event), and they foreshadow the problems with Insurrection and Nemesis by shaving Riker's beard off right at the beginning of the former.
What a great video! The first part about torturing O'Brien had me almost rolling on the floor. I just finished DS9 and after the 3rd season, everytime I realized I was watching an O'Brien-episode I was thinking: Oh no, they are going to make him suffer again. XD
I think that the writers wanted to portray Geordie as being socially compromised period. After all his major and longest relationship/ friendship is with an Android.... Data.. He never seems to get the best fit when it comes to social graces.
Also, Jordi spent most of his life working towards his career. Didnt spend a whole lot of time learning social stuff like dating. Thats why he struggles with it. Plus hes blind, with a visor to help him see. That may make him a little detached from others and make him think he cant relate to normal site people.
If I ever got to ask a question at a TNG q&a (and didn't immediately pass out), I would ask Levar Burton if the writers actually hated him. But not for the characterization; for the mind boggling gobbledygook technobabble dialogue Geordi gets throughout every single episode. He must have opened script after script and just sighed.
Overpowering loneliness has a way of changing people at their core. One can only hear "I like you but..." or something like that so many times before cynicism starts to set in and their personality, their character changes at a fundamental level.
K Big your first sentence is wise. Loneliness can also change a person for the better. Being alone a lot can be humbling and cause a person to become more introspective, leading to an awareness of faults and eventual self improvement.
Thank you for making this. I agree, Jordy was treated poorly when it came to his love life. Unfortunately, this emasculation of smart black men isn't anything new in media, see Urkel. Of course while I can hear someone saying, "what about Capt. Sisco? He was smart and even married." They killed his wife at the beginning of the series, then killed his mirror universe wife, then when he does find love at the end, he has to goes to hang out with the wormhole gods. Contrast to the Big Bang Theory where even Sheldon ends up married.
Thanks for bringing up this glaring omission from the video. I kept waiting for Steve to acknowledge it but maybe it's considered more progressive to ignore the racial angle completely. If I'm not mistaken, it was the actor who pushed for Sisko to stop being the celibate (sexless) Black Knight trope on DS9 so they gave him a romance with Cassidy Yates. Sometimes it seems like the blacker the Black actor the more emasculated the character has to become in the series to permit his mere presence. Like with Sisko, any demonstration to the contrary gets punished in the long run in near-biblical style. John Stewart & Shayera Hol from animated Justice League come to mind. It literally just about cost him the Earth. Alas, poor Geordie! Even in his maternal love relationship he was DENIED.
I feel the need to mention cousin Carlton in the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. He's an intelligent, trustworthy, kind and amiable guy who the show often portrays as a dateless loser and a nerd.
All nerds, of all races, can share in the solidarity that society sees us as sexless, social inept, border-line sociopaths. It's the closest to a truly humanist society we will ever get
Fun video. I just watched Galaxy's Child the other day and never realized how Geordi was "friend zoned" at the beginning. Interestingly enough he wasn't so desperate later in the series when Ensign Tyler had a crush on him.
If you watch the TNG Season 1 episode, The Arsenal of Freedom, Geordi proves himself to be a very competent and capable commanding officer, taking the Enterprise into combat without losing a single life in the process. How many Trek captains can make that claim? Seriously, his only time commanding the Enterprise during combat, and he doesn't have a single casualty on his end. The only other person I'm aware of with that claim is Beverly Crusher in the two parter Descent.
I think that the harsh treatment of Geordi just makes his character a little deeper in that as hard as times are for him or others, he stays strong and continues to be gentle and caring. Yeah, the hologram thing was super weird.
Mr Shives. You are not as bad as your reputation with some of the skeptic community lead me to believe. Subscribing, as while I don't see everything the same way you do, I value the opportunity to compare and contrast things you say that challenge my preconceptions. And maybe there will be times that I will become persuaded to move from where I now stand, to a different place. Thanks for the opportunity. I hope others also avail themselves of the chance. Live long, and prosper!
Lol I feel the same way. First fell in love with this channel on the Jellico video. You know what I like? Not losing federation planets to evil alien empires. This is the first one I caught that is not an older upload, I guess thay finally puts me in obligated patreon territory. Surprised Tuvix didn't win. That episode. Was. Fucked. Up.
Insurrection was, in my book, a great film. It was a throwback to Who Watches The Watchers, and went into much greater depth the issues it presented. It also confronts immortality, or at least "de-aging", in a rather unique way. Not only are we asked what we'd do if we had more time, but it also explores what it means to feel youthful again. Picard figures it out because he feels young again, which would be a shock to anyone. One thing I've noticed about growing up and having kids is that I have changed, a LOT, when it comes to being/feeling youthful. Seeing kids play, simply enjoying themselves with a lack of regard to what onlookers think, heavily reminds me of more youthful times. Data's character growth is also something I love about the film. Nevermind his role in kicking off the issues in the first place, his interactions with the boy (forgot his name, sorry) really show how many adults forget about youth. Having to deal with a changing body and introducing the concept of "playing" are handled really well. Data learns about what humans go through from the perspective of someone going through it, instead of from a computer or adults giving their viewpoint. Sure there are flaws and things to nitpick, like Riker's "manual steering column", but overall the film is good. I think it's greatest suffering point is that if followed First Contact, which is arguably the best Star Trek film of them all. Viewers may have expected more action from the TNG era films, instead of being shown a more insightful and perhaps even philosophical film. The adage of "we don't talk about odd numbered Star Trek films" breaks down at 9, if not before. If you're talking purely about story, I'd take Insurrection over Nemesis anytime.
Totally agree. They did Geordi so dirty. He was smart, competent, hard working, kind and super handsome. He would have made a great boyfriend and I'd date him in a heart beat. It makes me so sad that they wrote this episode in such a cringeworthy manner.
My parents got me the mini-series Roots on VHS when I was growing up. Any time I saw someone torturing La Forge, I half expected a gag-reel would have him whispering, "Kunta… Kunta Kente."
I really love the way you come at these things; like a friend to the show instead of a fanboy. Thanks, they make me appreciate the series even more. This and your Jellico episodes are my favorites. Now, I'm going to play that part about prying open the dilithium chamb--I'll be in my bunk.
I agree with you 100%. My daughter and I always refer to the "Creepy Geordi Episodes" when thinking about these. I think half the problem is that Geordi was always painted as the school nerd: terrible with women, obsessed with computers - err - warp engines, frequently friendzoned. Hell, he even wore the 24th century equivalent to glasses. It's just that - especially in these two episodes - they went right off the rails and turned him into a stalking incel. You're absolutely right: Geordi deserved better.
If you ever get into an argument about Discovery's canonicity again, remember kids, all this is canon too. As much canon as the fact that the Klingon homeworld is called Klinzhai... I mean Kling... I mean Kronos... I mean Qo'noS...
Probably not the subject for a whole video, but maybe one of those Q&A style things, but I'd be kinda interested in seeing that "Discovery isn't canon because it wasn't referenced again" taken to its extreme with all the Star Trek movies. To my knowledge, only the events of First Contact are explicitly referenced again in any of the TV series, though there are occasional references to scenes from The Undiscovered Country as well, but I don't think there have been any mentions of any of the other movies on any of the shows, and the omission of Spock's brother Sybok is the only one I frequently see getting brought up as "that wasn't canon". The events of First Contact are firmly established in Voyager and Enterprise, and at least hinted at in Discovery and Deep Space Nine, so I don't think there's any doubt about that one, but for example I don't think it's ever referenced that Kirk would've suddenly vanished even as Spock, McCoy and Scotty reappear in TNG, nor are there any references to Starfleet having transwarp drives or genesis devices.
The "nice guy/incel" insults are a bit uncool but I do fully agree with the video's point and I've always felt the same way about Geordi. I have a very difficult time with both Booby Trap and Galaxy's Child. A few points: 1.) Geordi also lies to Leah about the dinner they were to have together. Geordi says something like, "I'm sure we'll have a nice dinner -- I do make a great fungilli...!" Some type of fictional food dish, but the point is that he learned that that was Leah's favorite dish from her personnel file, but he plays it off as if he *just happened* to be great at making it. He also lies to her about the modification to the dilithium chamber. Instead of admitting that he got the idea from her program, he said something like, "Well, it's just the next logical step, right?" Really cringey. 2.) The other plot of the 2nd Leah episode (Galaxy's Child) is about detaching the baby space alien from the hull of the ship, and they use this analogy of a "baby suckling mother's milk" and needing to spoil the milk to wean the baby off of it. Man, maybe it's just me, but I find this analogy completely inappropriate *_in an episode that otherwise focuses on the relationship with a female love interest._* Why did they have to do the baby sucking mother's milk analogy in *_this_* episode?!?? That's SO weird. It's almost like the writer thought, "Well this episode is about a woman, so, what's something else about women? OH! I know! They can have babies! So let's make the alien like... like it's a baby breast-feeding!" Jesus Christ, lol. 3.) Geordi was given some bad lines scattered randomly throughout other episodes too. Like, sometimes, he'll just kind of be a jerk for no reason. Or, if not a jerk, he would at least say something really insensitive that only an idiot wouldn't have realized was insensitive to say. "It's a shame we can't tell if they're sentient," comes to mind, in The Loss episode, when Troi loses her empathic sense and the ship is stuck in a field of mysterious particle-like life-forms and the crew doesn't know what to do. He says that right in front of Troi, and of course she gets angry with him for saying it. But then, in _other_ episodes, he's a compassionate and caring friend. I think the writers just didn't know what they were doing sometimes. 4.) To be honest though, other characters suffered too. Again, I think sometimes the writers didn't really know what they were doing and they were _just trying stuff,_ and some characters ended up working well, and some didn't. Tasha's character was so bad for example that she quit the show. And her character really _was_ written terribly. About 80% of Troi's lines comes off as either condescending or annoyingly unhelpful ("Captain, the word that best describes him is... Rogue. :) "). Dr. Crusher's lines mainly consist of, "But we've _got_ to help them!" or, "At least let us send some _medical_ supplies!" Thankfully, even the not-so-greatly-written characters still all have several great moments, though. 5.) I think the writers *did* realize how lame they made Geordi look, and they finally gave him a (more or less) successful relationship in Aquiel. It doesn't feel totally realistic, but they didn't make him a pathetic liar in that episode.
Agreed. It's still a bit up there on the creepy factor at first with his going through her logs, but at least they thought she was dead and he was ordered to. And he immediately came clean about it and mostly let her feel weird about it. I still feel there was a bit too much "you've got to understand, it was my job!!" but he definitely seemed to have learned some lessons. I mean, I can't tell why it was Geordi's job to look through her logs instead of the head of security, or the captain.. but yeah.
You're right, realistically it should've been Worf's job but I suppose they just wanted a Geordi episode. I really do believe that they made the episode Aquiel because the writers looked back at Booby Trap/Galaxy's Child and felt obligated to try to give him a better episode, lol Although I did find Booby Trap and Galaxy's Child *thoroughly* disturbing (and still do), I actually didn't find Geordi looking through Aquiel's logs to be creepy, really at all, because at that point, the crew genuinely did believe she was a murder victim. Here's the line you were referring to, I think: AQUIEL: How do you know about that? LAFORGE: Well, to be honest, when we thought you were dead I needed to review your logs and personal correspondence for any possible clues about what happened. AQUIEL: All of it? LAFORGE: Most of it, yeah. (she gets up here, visibly upset, and looks out the window) LAFORGE: You need to understand, that we thought you'd been murdered. We needed information. AQUIEL: I'm sorry. It's just that I tell my sister things I wouldn't tell anyone else. I guess I was feeling a little exposed. LAFORGE: I'd feel the same way. To me, the line and the delivery didn't actually come off as creepily defensive like he did in Galaxy's Child, where he's clearly in the wrong but is still trying to justify it. I was also really happy that he admitted the truth right away, as opposed to deliberately withholding it (like in Galaxy's Child) My biggest gripe to be honest, about Aquiel (the episode) is the "telepathic alien love crystal" part... Sighhh... lol
Geordi was awesome. Man, I remember an episode of Reading Rainbow where Lavar Burton did a bunch of behind the scenes stuff for TNG and showed how they did a lot of the effects. It was really cool to see as a kid.
Kinda makes you think that Starfleet needs to have some kind of protocol on dating or shoreleave or building up a personal life, because so many of their officers are in one way or another desperate or thirsting for something that comes out at inopportune times. Their only options are trying to date other officers which can mess with work dynamics or trying to date somebody of whatever new alien culture they're meeting which can cause diplomatic incidents (and I don't think has ever resulted in a lasting relationship).
Hey Steve! Another great and on the point video You did there! I also grew up with the show... And I would have needed this role model, too... I've also been a Geordie for nearly the first 30 years of my life! ;)
Just rewatching this video, after I read an interview that suggested that the reason Geordie was so unlucky with women was that he would actually turn out to be gay, but the bigwig studio execs wouldn't have gone with it, so he just ended up alone.
Remember in Voyager when Geordi became a Captain and then the timeline got erased. He just can't catch a break.
Really? I thought that timeline was still going in Stark Trek: online.
@@Tigerkaya No, the timeline did get erased in Timeless, but he was probably still Captain of the Challenger in the main timeline. That's why he's Captain in STO, and, in my opinion, STO is canon, but that's debatable.
Burton Directed that Voyager episode (Timeless)! So he, in essence, did it to himself in that one. But he is a great director and led some outstanding ST episodes.
He apparently isn’t in Picard, though. He’s in charge of building the fleet to save the Romulans at Utopia Planitia.
@@sovak75 Better late than never?
He did eventually get the girl. He and Leah got married, and had three children, in a timeline they subsequently destroyed, in which he and all his friends were killed anyway.
God dammit TNG.
Came to say exactly this.
I found the comment in All Good Things, that he had ended up with Liah both a nice nod, and at the same time a terrible sentiment "Keep stalking that unavailable woman kids, eventually you'll get your own way!"
@@ryougahibiki941 the person or persons writing that probably got rejected time and again by someone they had similar feelings for and were making it so at least their sci-fi hero could actually get there even if they couldn't. To quote Batman "I can't condone it, but I do understand it"
@@1IbramGaunt i doubt that. It probably was just a small nod to an episode or couple of episodes the writer liked... it's hard enough to make up relevant things to spin into an episode like that which give you the impression of 20 or 30 years of character development and "life going on" without filling the script with walls of exposition... going with something fans would understands and non fans would not be irritated or thrown out of the story by is an elegant shortcut.
And it's still less creepy than Robert Beltran demanding they write Chakotay and Seven becoming a couple into the last season of Voyager... *yech*
I actually did just laugh out loud at "Everytime you pry open the dilithium chamber..."
Steve, this one was genuinely really funny and a great study on how behaving this way is no longer normal, let alone acceptable...I reckon acting like Geordi would have been pretty normal in the late 80s though.
I started laughing and then I wondered, no joke: I wonder what computer / engine program would consider a smoke afterwards...it WAS the 80s / early 90s and that was still very common to see in movies and shows of the time.
Yeah, that had me LMAO! :-)
@@ryanedwards7487 The smoke at the end is when they vent hydrogen from the busard collectors!
Geordi: "Enterprise, are you trying to come onto me?"
"Yes."
Another example of Guinan doing the job that Troi should have done.
Matt McNeil El-Aurians are a race of good listeners.🖖
Troi, like every other TV therapist, is a *completely terrible therapist*
True, but he didn't go see Troi, instead he went to the bar, so how was Troi to know?
@@seanmiller8701 She's an empath who can feel the emotions of people who are thousands of miles away just by seeing them on a viewscreen... I'd assume feeling the emotions of one of her best friends who probably spends a lot of the day less than a thousand feet away from her shouldnt be too hard...
@@karatwilight She got on the show because she asked to be. She was a big fan of the original and how Roddenberry overcame the stereotypes and made minorities (Uhura, Sulu) people of stature and professionalism.
As soon as you mentioned psychological torture, I knew this was where you were going. Having real-Leah show up was one of the most cringe-worthy moments of ST:TNG. Of course, real life is often cringe-worthy...
Remember when the answer to Troi's "Engineering Command Test" was to kill Geordi? ...poor Geordi....
@@lucassmart1473 Thine Own Self (episode)
TNG, Episode 7x16
I always thought that moment was kind of odd, because the twist was that it wasn’t actually an engineering test, it was a test to see if she could make tough calls and sacrifice someone for the sake of the ship, but the whole time I was just sitting there thinking “okay but what if she actually doesn’t know shit about engineering though? That seems pretty important; I feel like there should be an actual engineering test”. Also why would you sacrifice the CHIEF ENGINEER during the middle of a crisis??? Wouldn’t you still need him to oh, I don’t know, fix the ship that just nearly blew up???
@@geekgirl_luv4262 Darn right, you're supposed to send a lowly ensign or crewman😁
I had forgotten this line from Booby Trap, after Geordi asks about Leah's personality:
COMPUTER: Access denied. Personal logs are restricted.
LAFORGE: Great. Another woman who won't get personal with me in the holodeck.
That scene where Geordi is tortured by the Romulans gave me nightmares. It's horrific and they never deal with the ramifications of what was done to him.
I've been blind my whole life, so Geordi was important to me growing up. I agree his romantic life really could/should have been handled differently. If you look at season #1, it is in away. At least women seem more into him and he seems in the 'friend-zone' more by choice. Anyway, I can also agree with you Steve. While dating was sometimes fun, i was very ready and happy to settle down with my wife...its been 10 years of marriage for us now...time flies, cheers.
When I was a teenager this seemed perfectly normal to me. It was only many years later I realized the issues with it. It's unfortunate it had to be the hard way. Thanks for making this video.
Jessica Day me too
After I recently re-watched those two episodes, I’m pretty much agreed with him.
Like many, I also cringed hard at this plotline when I came across it the first time. It's so clumsily handled, it's like every single writer who participated on that episode had never spoken to a real human woman before in their entire life.
I did appreciate that we got a connection between seasons, however. Having the situation be set up in season 3 and then furthered in season 4 was not as common as it is now, and I did like that about it. A shame the actual idea was so poorly handled.
I also thought it was such a waste to have this little note when later they just rehash it with Barclay. This could have been an opportunity to show that sometimes you can do everything "right" and the woman still won't be interested in you: They aren't prizes to be won for behaving in a particular way. Instead, they wrote it exactly like a horny teenage boy might see the situation, and that's sad.
Kylie Perry so true, makes us guys look bad.
a lot of men think women are suppsoed to be cartain way, then get frustrated when they dont see results. Its easier to jus deal with the pain by swearing off women all together than develop a better personality that includes empathy.
@@MLBlue30 being a decent person isn't that hard
Heck even Data had better chances than him... He got with 3 girls and Gerodi none.
Word
So data is one of those robots...
That's cause some of Data's parts vibrate.
Three? I know he hooked up with Tasha Yar for a night of steamy robot passion in "The Naked Now" and he tried (and failed) to have a romantic relationship with the very lovely Ensign Jenna D'Sora in "In Theory", but who was the third?
@@leopold7562 Borg queen???
They did the same things to Harry Kim. Straight up punching bag and still an ensign at the end of the show.
They went hard on Be'lanna too
@mike carson Harry Kim got hit on by Seven of Nine. I mean sure, he completely bottled at that point, but still.
He was the *Captain* of the USS Rhode Island in the last episode before Janeway had to go all willy-nilly and break the Temporal Prime Directive.
Rick Berman and to a lesser extent also Brannon Braga believed HARD in the "toy box" ... put your characters back into storage after an episode just like you took them out to play with...
@mike carson Geordi finally got laid near the end of the show lol. The episode with the alien disguised as a dog
"A British tar is a soaring soul,
As free as a mountain bird,
His energetic fist should be ready to resist
A dictatorial word."
Sing, Worf, sing.
Well actually..... (pushes glasses back on my nose) O’Brian was the Chief Engineer of the Defiant.
O'Brien was also a recurring character on TNG as the guy who worked the transporter.
I'd love to see a Quark Trek Actually. I'm going back through DS9 for the first time in years and I forgot just how great he is as a character. Maybe something about the differences between him and Guinan.
Dustin Swafford Quark was super interesting, his root beer analogy was awesome, and he helped raise Nog, who was a war hero, and the first ferengi to join star fleet.
Until ds9 they were really just sniveling one dimensional antagonist characters. I'm glad they gave them a lot of back story thru Quark. Plus they brought a lot of humor to the show.
I read this as "I'd love to see a Quark Trek (series), actually" instead of "I'd love to see a Quark (topic) Trek Actually" at first. And now I kind of want a Trek series that's actually following a Ferengi businessman just doing business with the Federation.
Guinan was a boring character that did nothing and and really no reason to even be there. My least favorite character on TNG
@@skeletorkahn For a minute there I thought Quark had a human first and middle name that I missed from the show. Like Moogi would bust them out when Quark was really bad. DUSTIN SWAFFORD QUARK, YOU GET YOUR LOBES IN HERE RIGHT THIS INSTANT!
LaVar is just such a wonderful guy. We actually exchanged a few letters when I was in kindergarten. Between his role as Geordi, Reading Rainbow, and his personal encouragement, he was a major inspiration in my early life. Figures that I would grow up to become an author/illustrator.
I think this also has a lot to do with why I love Geordi's character, despite how poorly the writers handled him sometimes.
To be honest with you. The crew on all the star trek shows tends to be amazing people. Strange new worlds was my experience on the show. Dude who plays spock is super friendly and kind.
Geordie also dealt directly with Barclay doing the same thing, I think he'd be self aware of the issues at hand.
5:45 Picard: "Geordi, you better not be groping my starship while we're all about to die!"
Sfdebris
I can never watch the second Leah Brahms episode. It's just too cringe worthy.
lol the episode was called 'booby trap', I always wondered whether the writers were having a laugh there....
@@HornyDude83 That's the first episode.
Ditto!
It would have been better if Geordi didn't behave in such a childish way even when she discovers his little secret on the holodeck. A frustrated outburst I can honestly understand, but that he just stormed off afterwards, and didn't apologise properly for not being open about the whole thing earlier, wasn't what I'd call gentlemanly behaviour. And Geordi's the type of guy who seems to pride himself in that sort of standard, so it's all the more disappointing. As Steve said, he could have used that sort of role model - someone who admits to an infatuation and isn't ashamed of it, but can also apologise if it seems rude and inappropriate. (Then those epilogue scenes could've even worked properly.) Steve's right that the episode is a bit of a missed opportunity. Even though I bet the writers wanted Geordi to come across as a little more inexperienced, they overdid it. He often comes across as more of a rude, entitled prick. That's not really like him, IMHO.
DrTssha I think Sublime is saying Geordi falling for Dr. Brahms in “Booby Trap” was the booby trap for the second episode. Geordi certainly was a boob at any rate.
"Naaah, I'm not a writer; I'm more of a reader." Badum-tiss! :)
Thank you! I am so glad someone has pointed these things out. I spent all of ST: TNG waiting for a decent episode featuring Geordi and it never happened. He was given a few moments to shine, but they were rare. Most of the time, as you've said, he was abducted, tortured, mutated by a parasite, accidentally left behind (or on purpose in the episode Timescape), used as a ragdoll in the turbolift in Contageon, left in a phased state by a transporter accident. Even the hologram of him in Thine Own Self wasn't safe, as Troi sent it on a suicide mission. La Forge was an awesome character to follow, and Levar Burton was brilliant in the role, but ultimately he was given underwhelming storylines.
"Why doesn't she love me?" I'm laughing so hard.
The Man With A Million Names the best part is the closed captions are “WHYDOESN’TSHELOVEME?”
Hi Steve I just watched an I
interview with the Levar Burton and he "briefly" spoke about Geordi's creepy interactions with women on the old show (I'm assuming he was mainly talking about the Dr. Brahms episodes).
Anyway he said he had problems with his character doing those things but, the studio had final say. I was happy to hear that the actor also didn't like how his character treated women. He actually said that one of his criteria for coming back was that if Geordi had any female romantic interaction on "Picard" season 3 it wouldn't be creepy. I'm just happy to know Levar Burton is an upstanding guy and, doesn't view women as objects.
.......
Ok Steve now I have poke the bear a little 😋 because I know how you feel about this BUT... I wish his wife on the new show was Dr. Brahms! Okay Steve now I'm going to duck and run-bye! 🤣
Have always thought the Leah Brahms story painted Geordi super creepy. Thanks for the validation.
Thank you for this, that S4 episode with Dr. Brahms has always rubbed me the wrong way for how poorly La Forge handled things.
They just needed a punching bag before introducing Barclay.
The second episode was post-barclay. Barclay was introduced in season 3 iirc
Ryan - Commander Broccoli.
@@geekchris105 When you get a brand new, fancy punching bag you sometimes like to go back to the old one for nostalgia.
Theory (because i dint have a better Name for it): The Holodeck is just like a djini. It can fulfill all your desired wishes. Just not always in the way you expected.
Djini like to twist the wishes of their owners in a way that often ends in catastrophes. Just like the holodeck.
So not the nice djini like in Aladdin but the cunning djini that always tries to trick you (Sorry can't express it very well. English isn't my first language)
Fascinating theory you expressed very well!
Very interesting! Something like the Azazel stories by Asimov. 😝
Wishmaster
You make it sound as if the rest of the main characters had healthy long-term relationships. None of them did. Not during this series. Unfortunately, Chief O'Brien & Keiko don't count here.
Picard lost one girlfriend to the job and the other to Q. Ironically, it was
Picard and Q that may have shared the longest-running romance of the entire show.
Bouts of jealousy aside, Will & Diana were not actually dating during the series. Will was portrayed as a serial dater, which may explain him being framed for murder by a femme fatale. He also was seen falling for an androgynous pilot that would later be brainwashed.
Diana was impregnated during a speed date with a space cloud and used a
vessel for a negotiator's bad karma which led to a fling with a rando.
Data was hung--up on a brief sexual encounter with Tasha Yar brought on by space drunkenness. His later experiment with dating was an abject failure.
Doctor Crusher had a romance with a guy that immediately ascended to a
higher plane of existence or maybe he just had commitment issues. She had a brief encounter with a Trill that immediately changed genders or maybe just had commitment issues. She also ran away with an energy
vampire that killed her great aunt I suppose her friendly dinners with
Picard were venturing into romantic territory.
Wesley went on serval dates and faired well with the young ladies before
he decided to go "traveling' with a cosmic entity of undetermined
gender.
Then there's Worf...
I dig the video, but I'm not sure why you signaled out Geordi for his romantic woes. There was plenty to go around.
Everyone actually had sex but Jordi
@@musicbyterence4655 in the future shown in All Good Things, Geordi was married and had children with someone named Leah (presumably Leah Brahams)
While none of the other characters really had romantic relationships that worked out, that was mostly because of plot-related circumstances, whereas Geordi was the only one who was shown to be specifically bad at dating. Hologram Leah was probably the closest he got to that kind of “one-off love interest who’s written off by the end of the episode” storyline that all of the other characters had.
For a millisecond I thought it said "Why Geordi la Forge Actually Discovered Butter".
" discovered Butterfly in the Sky, he can go twice as high..."
Your paraphrases of the script are (as usual) very entertaining. (c:
Good points too. Even Barclay doesn't come off this badly.
And Social-Awkwardness is HIS core characteristic.
@@Geospasmic Yep, and even with that, he STILL doesn't come across as bad as Geordi does here.
@@Geospasmic Difference being, he didn't then treat real Deanna like crap.
@@chance20m And he is ashamed of what he did, he knows it's wrong, he doesn't defend it like Geordi.
I think the Relics episode would have been better with Barclay becoming friends with Scotty and knowing all about him from the start.
IN real life, Geordi would become an incel and bitch to Barclay about how much he hates women now that hes "gone his own way".
I think people unfairly critise Gordie for falling for the hologram when Riker falls for the hologram minuette before this.
It's not the Geordi fell in love with a hologram, it's that he projected the fantasy of that hologram onto the actual human person who shared it's face and got upset when she wasn't everything he'd made up. Riker arguably fell in love with Minuette (I think it's more accurate to say he was seduced deliberately, for a much shorter period of time) but he didn't then go yell at the 'actual' Minuette for not being exactly like the hologram version. There was no real version of her, and he never projects any of her qualities onto people he wants to date.
You're all very right, that does make it much creepier. I just don't think he was wrong necessarily for falling for the projection, or at least the show suggests that it's very easy to do.
Being blind myself, I have mixed feelings about Geordi’s portrayal as a blind person. The fact that it’s easy to forget that he’s blind is excellent, and sometimes the writers use the visor to powerful effect in terms of plot and symbolism, but it’s always disappointed me that we don’t know what his eye condition is, and he doesn’t have very much of the psychology I encounter in most of my blind friends. Mostly they just occasionally have him express that he really, really, really wants to have normal vision. I don’t really have a problem with what they did with him; the missed opportunities are just disappointing. Case in point: when Deanna loses her empathic abilities and constantly compares herself to a blind person, whom does no one EVER suggest she talk to? They have a disabled person for the entire show, but the disability episode of TNG goes to Deanna?!
I just watched Episode "The Masterpiece Society" And I thought they did a great job there, I loved the line something like "technology coming from what was created for blind man to see helping to keep a society alive that would never have let him be born in the first place"
I love Geordi, so well played by Levar Burton what a legend! I trhink a lot of my interest in science and engineering came from him, Geordi for the win!!!!
Halfway through this video and OMG this may be the funniest episode of Trek Actually ever! You're section on dating, holy crap that was my life when I was dating. Absolutely hated dating!
Yeah I've watched every Trek actually and not actually and this is by far the funniest one
I"m so mirror image here, I loved dating and flirting and all the romatical crayziness that ensues. I just fail at the maintenance part: not good at relationships (sigh)
Yeah, I still hate it. Haven't tried to go on a date in almost a decade. It's really too stressful, and I totally agree with Steve.
I can't relate to dating, but then I've never really been on a date, so there is that.
I did end up with a boyfriend in spite of that somehow though.
Don't ask me how that works...
But it didn't come about through something that you'd typically consider 'dating'.
Yay for being super-awkward nerds I guess? XD
I don't know what changed, but this episode is on another level. The pacing, editing, and humor are pitch perfect and best I've ever seen from this series. A+. I can't wait to see your video on my precious, defenseless child, Star Trek Insurrection.
Before there was Harry Kim, there was Geordi Laforge. Honestly, he and Troi were the most abused and ill-used characters in Star Trek TNG. For all the progressiveness of the show, this always made me uncomfortable, especially since he's actually one of favorite characters in TNG, and he really had some of the best moments with Data. I'd argue his relationship with Data was better than the other characters.
Romance is never done well in Star Trek. It NEVER goes well; it's always creepy or wrong or just plain bad. I mean, Star Wars has nothing but the most awkward, borderline-creepy romances, but at least you can see those working out with enough effort, but Trek is just cringy, and that's sad.
Tareltonlives what about Captain Willard Decker and Lt. Iliya on Star Trek TMP?
Sisko and Kasady Yates are shockingly normal as a couple... Other than the part where he sends her to space jail.
@@-_-_m Which is really Eddington's machinations. He definitely was involved with her repeated rendezvous in the Badlands, and dropped the hints to Sisko. It's left unsaid but I personally think he was the one who got her to help in the first place - "it's just medical supplies" and so forth. Especially since he was later said to be the leader of his cell and possibly the de-facto leader of other cells they regularly worked with.
I used to wonder how the holodeck got Leah so very wrong, but then I thought about two things from our modern world: email correspondence and targeted advertising.
Perhaps, all of Leah's romantic letters to her then fiancee were also in some database somewhere, and when Geordi asked the computer to create her personality, it used them as well. Being a machine, it had now way to screen out the romantic cute stuff from the other data, so it got mixed in, giving us holo Leah.
Or, all of Geordi's attempts to be a ladies man left whatever the 24th century equivalent of "cookies" are in the computer, and when it made this personality, it used said cookies to make holo Leah.
I disagree with this assessment completely. I found it very refreshing to have a black male character who wasn't a smooth talking ladies man with a revolving door on his bedroom. His awkwardness with women was endearing and part of his charm.
"He knows he didn't ask the computer to make him a woman because it didn't come with the rush of shame." Great stuff.
"More of a reader". I see what you did there!
I live for your Star Trek dialogue paraphrasing, Steve.
I actually love Leah as a recurring character (ish) and I wish they had brought her back again somehow. Continuity between eps in TNG is so rare I'll take the smallest crumbs!
"We're gonna die in a few minutes" IS a good reason to get laid on the holodeck.
To be fair, the drafting room at the Utopia Planitia Feetyards is not a very romantic locale.
On the other hand, it is the holodeck. Load something else =)
Geordi was one of favorite characters. I liked him.
Stamitz is still responsible for the thing that makes Discovery go vroom in space (sorry for that highly technical language) so he counts as a Chief Engineer.
We all stan Stamets.
I’ve been sitting here LITERALLY laughing out loud! Your witty take on his whole situation is spot on! “Was I not supposed to show her your super secret holodeck program?” LOL! Oh, and I totally want that shirt!!!
la forge and voyagers Harry Kim could hang out together.
Just two ships passing in an alternate VOY timeline 🖖
I can't believe Harry Kim never got promoted.
I would love to see an all engineers squad come together from all the Star Trek shows, hell even the ones people hate would still be fun to bring into the mix probably.
I think their group could be called "The Warp Nacelles."
Loveable loosers
Thank you for another great episode of Trek Actually. I loved how every Guinan intro is "What the hell is your problem?" If it isn't already, that should be a running joke in your show. And I cracked up at the Facebook reference. P.S. Awesome double reference with the rainbow Starfleet Log, supporting LGBT Pride Month and Levar's Reading Rainbow. Whether you meant it or not, take the credit.
You could make a whole video of cringe-worthy relationship tropes from 90s and 80s sitcoms. I think that is why nobody really enjoyed Fuller House because they used the same tropes and they just don't work anymore. Hopefully, Geordi will be in "Picard", but it doesn't look like he will make any appearances in the first season.
I I like Fuller House but then I like Enterprise so what do I know
Geordie and Leah episodes are weirdly some of my favorites.
The actors have AMAZING chemistry.
You're right about how weird it was Geordi was basically assigned to be friends with Barclay or Scotty! I still love his friendship with Hugh, and given that you brought up Bochra too, it's those several episodes that I always call "Geordi La Forge Saves the Day With The Power of Friendship." Unlike Picard having to tell him to try to be friends, he organically showed how caring he was to Hugh and Bochra in those situations!
Your comment about how Trek COULD'VE shown an unlucky-in-love character better also made me think about how DS9 was SO close, but so far, with Julian Bashir and Jadzia Dax. I really love him, in no small part due to Sid's acting even when the writing floundered (especially early on when they were figuring out what to do with the character, but Sid still gave 110%). But his pining for Jadzia... GAH. It was so good until the end of S6 - S3 and S4 both did an amazing job of showing how he and Jadzia had developed a beautiful, platonic friendship. Julian himself said it well in "Distant Voices", about how while he might still want a romantic relationship with her, he'd never trade their friendship. But then out of the absolute blue, YEARS after it was established he'd moved on, the end of S6 suddenly has Quark playing mind games with him and it's like that character development had never happened in the first place (and really, comparing him to QUARK there? He could be so awkward and all, but come on.) And then the less said about the choices made with Julian and Ezri throughout S7, the better. Sighhhhh.
I appreciate the effort you put in to finding the best still shots from the clips to further the comic effect of your parody of the script.
Steve you speak of me when you talk about awkward dating.
Me and my wife have been married 18 years this August, and prior to that, dating was so...bad for me. I’m definitely glad I found my “one for me”
I liked the delivery of Picard saying "Geordi do something about this", Picard knowing that his magic chief engineer can rustle up something like always must make ship problems boring.
Reasons Why Star Trek: Insurrection isn't that bad: It isn't Star Trek: Nemesis
I just find it hilarious that Riker growing the beard is acknowledged as the point where TNG starts to improve (to the point where a TV Tropes page is named after that event), and they foreshadow the problems with Insurrection and Nemesis by shaving Riker's beard off right at the beginning of the former.
What a great video! The first part about torturing O'Brien had me almost rolling on the floor. I just finished DS9 and after the 3rd season, everytime I realized I was watching an O'Brien-episode I was thinking: Oh no, they are going to make him suffer again. XD
Me: "Lol Geordi fell in love with a hologram, how pathetic."
*attempting to hide my collection of dating sims*
That retelling of the Season 3 episode (totally accurate) was totally hilarious.
In the "beta canon" books "The Genesis Wave" trilogy, Leah winds up widowed by said wave, and finally hooks up with Geordi by the end.
I think that the writers wanted to portray Geordie as being socially compromised period. After all his major and longest relationship/ friendship is with an Android.... Data.. He never seems to get the best fit when it comes to social graces.
Could Geordi be on autism spectrum?
I headcanon Geordie on the ASD bcs he's funny and creative but not close with anyone
Damn, Steve. You nailed it. Thank you for bringing so much awareness to this episode.
I just got frindzoned today... I feel with ya Geordi
Also, Jordi spent most of his life working towards his career. Didnt spend a whole lot of time learning social stuff like dating. Thats why he struggles with it. Plus hes blind, with a visor to help him see. That may make him a little detached from others and make him think he cant relate to normal site people.
Scotty was treated like crap often on TOS by Kirk.
Examples?
If I ever got to ask a question at a TNG q&a (and didn't immediately pass out), I would ask Levar Burton if the writers actually hated him. But not for the characterization; for the mind boggling gobbledygook technobabble dialogue Geordi gets throughout every single episode. He must have opened script after script and just sighed.
Overpowering loneliness has a way of changing people at their core. One can only hear "I like you but..." or something like that so many times before cynicism starts to set in and their personality, their character changes at a fundamental level.
K Big your first sentence is wise. Loneliness can also change a person for the better. Being alone a lot can be humbling and cause a person to become more introspective, leading to an awareness of faults and eventual self improvement.
Thank you for making this. I agree, Jordy was treated poorly when it came to his love life. Unfortunately, this emasculation of smart black men isn't anything new in media, see Urkel. Of course while I can hear someone saying, "what about Capt. Sisco? He was smart and even married." They killed his wife at the beginning of the series, then killed his mirror universe wife, then when he does find love at the end, he has to goes to hang out with the wormhole gods. Contrast to the Big Bang Theory where even Sheldon ends up married.
Thanks for bringing up this glaring omission from the video. I kept waiting for Steve to acknowledge it but maybe it's considered more progressive to ignore the racial angle completely.
If I'm not mistaken, it was the actor who pushed for Sisko to stop being the celibate (sexless) Black Knight trope on DS9 so they gave him a romance with Cassidy Yates.
Sometimes it seems like the blacker the Black actor the more emasculated the character has to become in the series to permit his mere presence.
Like with Sisko, any demonstration to the contrary gets punished in the long run in near-biblical style. John Stewart & Shayera Hol from animated Justice League come to mind. It literally just about cost him the Earth.
Alas, poor Geordie! Even in his maternal love relationship he was DENIED.
Knightshade08 you’re so right.
I feel the need to mention cousin Carlton in the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. He's an intelligent, trustworthy, kind and amiable guy who the show often portrays as a dateless loser and a nerd.
@@puirYorick Thank you! There should be a book about this in Hollywood. Maybe I'll write it.
All nerds, of all races, can share in the solidarity that society sees us as sexless, social inept, border-line sociopaths. It's the closest to a truly humanist society we will ever get
Engineer. The only job too nerdy to get love on Star Trek
That rant on dating...yes. Can confirm too: finally finding the right one is amazing and makes it well worth the process.
"And you don't have to take MY word for it."
Fun video. I just watched Galaxy's Child the other day and never realized how Geordi was "friend zoned" at the beginning. Interestingly enough he wasn't so desperate later in the series when Ensign Tyler had a crush on him.
You forgot that in the future of All good Things Geordi and Leah are married... so it all worked well for him
Shark I came here just to make that comment but I thought I should take a minute to scroll through, I’m sure someone else beat me to it. Well played!
If you watch the TNG Season 1 episode, The Arsenal of Freedom, Geordi proves himself to be a very competent and capable commanding officer, taking the Enterprise into combat without losing a single life in the process. How many Trek captains can make that claim? Seriously, his only time commanding the Enterprise during combat, and he doesn't have a single casualty on his end. The only other person I'm aware of with that claim is Beverly Crusher in the two parter Descent.
I think that the harsh treatment of Geordi just makes his character a little deeper in that as hard as times are for him or others, he stays strong and continues to be gentle and caring. Yeah, the hologram thing was super weird.
Mr Shives. You are not as bad as your reputation with some of the skeptic community lead me to believe. Subscribing, as while I don't see everything the same way you do, I value the opportunity to compare and contrast things you say that challenge my preconceptions. And maybe there will be times that I will become persuaded to move from where I now stand, to a different place. Thanks for the opportunity. I hope others also avail themselves of the chance. Live long, and prosper!
Fun fact real life can do that too engineer's and technicians.... Man I'm personally attacked.
Don't forget the time Geordi was captured by Pakleds.
Ikr? PAKLEDS ffs. 😜
I relate to Geordi, I never managed to date and having a gf
You are not alone with that. One day it will stop causing one self doubt. It's just how it is. It's okay.
As a rule, every post-TNG-era Star Trek show has had one designated character who was the go-to for every "(Name) must suffer..." episodes.
First time I get to see a trek actually when it first is uploaded. Good stuff. Totally digging the shirt.
Lol I feel the same way. First fell in love with this channel on the Jellico video. You know what I like? Not losing federation planets to evil alien empires. This is the first one I caught that is not an older upload, I guess thay finally puts me in obligated patreon territory.
Surprised Tuvix didn't win. That episode. Was. Fucked. Up.
Insurrection was, in my book, a great film. It was a throwback to Who Watches The Watchers, and went into much greater depth the issues it presented. It also confronts immortality, or at least "de-aging", in a rather unique way. Not only are we asked what we'd do if we had more time, but it also explores what it means to feel youthful again. Picard figures it out because he feels young again, which would be a shock to anyone. One thing I've noticed about growing up and having kids is that I have changed, a LOT, when it comes to being/feeling youthful. Seeing kids play, simply enjoying themselves with a lack of regard to what onlookers think, heavily reminds me of more youthful times.
Data's character growth is also something I love about the film. Nevermind his role in kicking off the issues in the first place, his interactions with the boy (forgot his name, sorry) really show how many adults forget about youth. Having to deal with a changing body and introducing the concept of "playing" are handled really well. Data learns about what humans go through from the perspective of someone going through it, instead of from a computer or adults giving their viewpoint.
Sure there are flaws and things to nitpick, like Riker's "manual steering column", but overall the film is good. I think it's greatest suffering point is that if followed First Contact, which is arguably the best Star Trek film of them all. Viewers may have expected more action from the TNG era films, instead of being shown a more insightful and perhaps even philosophical film. The adage of "we don't talk about odd numbered Star Trek films" breaks down at 9, if not before. If you're talking purely about story, I'd take Insurrection over Nemesis anytime.
I like that a story about his shitty love life is entitled “Booby Trap”! 😂
Totally agree. They did Geordi so dirty. He was smart, competent, hard working, kind and super handsome. He would have made a great boyfriend and I'd date him in a heart beat. It makes me so sad that they wrote this episode in such a cringeworthy manner.
Love the shirt, happy pride month to everyone.
My parents got me the mini-series Roots on VHS when I was growing up.
Any time I saw someone torturing La Forge, I half expected a gag-reel would have him whispering, "Kunta… Kunta Kente."
If there was ever a "Get a room" moment in TNG it has to be Reiker and Minuete.
OMG, Steve, this is right on! This has always bugged me. Thank you!
Great episode. So true. Poor Burton.
I really love the way you come at these things; like a friend to the show instead of a fanboy. Thanks, they make me appreciate the series even more. This and your Jellico episodes are my favorites. Now, I'm going to play that part about prying open the dilithium chamb--I'll be in my bunk.
“O’Brien must suffer” was a ST:DS9 trope. ⭐️
I agree with you 100%. My daughter and I always refer to the "Creepy Geordi Episodes" when thinking about these. I think half the problem is that Geordi was always painted as the school nerd: terrible with women, obsessed with computers - err - warp engines, frequently friendzoned. Hell, he even wore the 24th century equivalent to glasses.
It's just that - especially in these two episodes - they went right off the rails and turned him into a stalking incel. You're absolutely right: Geordi deserved better.
"He makes it weiiiiiiiiird." Best line.
I'm glad there are other people that think these eps are fucked up.
I feel you missed an opportunity to show O'Brien with the phaser under his chin when for the line "sadistically creative"
If you ever get into an argument about Discovery's canonicity again, remember kids, all this is canon too. As much canon as the fact that the Klingon homeworld is called Klinzhai... I mean Kling... I mean Kronos... I mean Qo'noS...
Probably not the subject for a whole video, but maybe one of those Q&A style things, but I'd be kinda interested in seeing that "Discovery isn't canon because it wasn't referenced again" taken to its extreme with all the Star Trek movies. To my knowledge, only the events of First Contact are explicitly referenced again in any of the TV series, though there are occasional references to scenes from The Undiscovered Country as well, but I don't think there have been any mentions of any of the other movies on any of the shows, and the omission of Spock's brother Sybok is the only one I frequently see getting brought up as "that wasn't canon".
The events of First Contact are firmly established in Voyager and Enterprise, and at least hinted at in Discovery and Deep Space Nine, so I don't think there's any doubt about that one, but for example I don't think it's ever referenced that Kirk would've suddenly vanished even as Spock, McCoy and Scotty reappear in TNG, nor are there any references to Starfleet having transwarp drives or genesis devices.
This one episode doesn't validate all the horrible writing, massive contradictions, and lack of passion that Discovery has (FOR ME). Sorry :)
Love your star trek videos bro! You were spot on with barkley and love this one too!
The "nice guy/incel" insults are a bit uncool but I do fully agree with the video's point and I've always felt the same way about Geordi. I have a very difficult time with both Booby Trap and Galaxy's Child.
A few points:
1.) Geordi also lies to Leah about the dinner they were to have together. Geordi says something like, "I'm sure we'll have a nice dinner -- I do make a great fungilli...!" Some type of fictional food dish, but the point is that he learned that that was Leah's favorite dish from her personnel file, but he plays it off as if he *just happened* to be great at making it. He also lies to her about the modification to the dilithium chamber. Instead of admitting that he got the idea from her program, he said something like, "Well, it's just the next logical step, right?" Really cringey.
2.) The other plot of the 2nd Leah episode (Galaxy's Child) is about detaching the baby space alien from the hull of the ship, and they use this analogy of a "baby suckling mother's milk" and needing to spoil the milk to wean the baby off of it. Man, maybe it's just me, but I find this analogy completely inappropriate *_in an episode that otherwise focuses on the relationship with a female love interest._* Why did they have to do the baby sucking mother's milk analogy in *_this_* episode?!?? That's SO weird. It's almost like the writer thought, "Well this episode is about a woman, so, what's something else about women? OH! I know! They can have babies! So let's make the alien like... like it's a baby breast-feeding!" Jesus Christ, lol.
3.) Geordi was given some bad lines scattered randomly throughout other episodes too. Like, sometimes, he'll just kind of be a jerk for no reason. Or, if not a jerk, he would at least say something really insensitive that only an idiot wouldn't have realized was insensitive to say. "It's a shame we can't tell if they're sentient," comes to mind, in The Loss episode, when Troi loses her empathic sense and the ship is stuck in a field of mysterious particle-like life-forms and the crew doesn't know what to do. He says that right in front of Troi, and of course she gets angry with him for saying it. But then, in _other_ episodes, he's a compassionate and caring friend. I think the writers just didn't know what they were doing sometimes.
4.) To be honest though, other characters suffered too. Again, I think sometimes the writers didn't really know what they were doing and they were _just trying stuff,_ and some characters ended up working well, and some didn't. Tasha's character was so bad for example that she quit the show. And her character really _was_ written terribly. About 80% of Troi's lines comes off as either condescending or annoyingly unhelpful ("Captain, the word that best describes him is... Rogue. :) "). Dr. Crusher's lines mainly consist of, "But we've _got_ to help them!" or, "At least let us send some _medical_ supplies!" Thankfully, even the not-so-greatly-written characters still all have several great moments, though.
5.) I think the writers *did* realize how lame they made Geordi look, and they finally gave him a (more or less) successful relationship in Aquiel. It doesn't feel totally realistic, but they didn't make him a pathetic liar in that episode.
Agreed. It's still a bit up there on the creepy factor at first with his going through her logs, but at least they thought she was dead and he was ordered to. And he immediately came clean about it and mostly let her feel weird about it. I still feel there was a bit too much "you've got to understand, it was my job!!" but he definitely seemed to have learned some lessons. I mean, I can't tell why it was Geordi's job to look through her logs instead of the head of security, or the captain.. but yeah.
You're right, realistically it should've been Worf's job but I suppose they just wanted a Geordi episode. I really do believe that they made the episode Aquiel because the writers looked back at Booby Trap/Galaxy's Child and felt obligated to try to give him a better episode, lol
Although I did find Booby Trap and Galaxy's Child *thoroughly* disturbing (and still do), I actually didn't find Geordi looking through Aquiel's logs to be creepy, really at all, because at that point, the crew genuinely did believe she was a murder victim.
Here's the line you were referring to, I think:
AQUIEL: How do you know about that?
LAFORGE: Well, to be honest, when we thought you were dead I needed to review your logs and personal correspondence for any possible clues about what happened.
AQUIEL: All of it?
LAFORGE: Most of it, yeah.
(she gets up here, visibly upset, and looks out the window)
LAFORGE: You need to understand, that we thought you'd been murdered. We needed information.
AQUIEL: I'm sorry. It's just that I tell my sister things I wouldn't tell anyone else. I guess I was feeling a little exposed.
LAFORGE: I'd feel the same way.
To me, the line and the delivery didn't actually come off as creepily defensive like he did in Galaxy's Child, where he's clearly in the wrong but is still trying to justify it. I was also really happy that he admitted the truth right away, as opposed to deliberately withholding it (like in Galaxy's Child)
My biggest gripe to be honest, about Aquiel (the episode) is the "telepathic alien love crystal" part... Sighhh... lol
Geordi was awesome. Man, I remember an episode of Reading Rainbow where Lavar Burton did a bunch of behind the scenes stuff for TNG and showed how they did a lot of the effects. It was really cool to see as a kid.
Kinda makes you think that Starfleet needs to have some kind of protocol on dating or shoreleave or building up a personal life, because so many of their officers are in one way or another desperate or thirsting for something that comes out at inopportune times. Their only options are trying to date other officers which can mess with work dynamics or trying to date somebody of whatever new alien culture they're meeting which can cause diplomatic incidents (and I don't think has ever resulted in a lasting relationship).
Hey Steve! Another great and on the point video You did there! I also grew up with the show... And I would have needed this role model, too... I've also been a Geordie for nearly the first 30 years of my life! ;)
Just rewatching this video, after I read an interview that suggested that the reason Geordie was so unlucky with women was that he would actually turn out to be gay, but the bigwig studio execs wouldn't have gone with it, so he just ended up alone.