How the Holodeck Is an HR Nightmare
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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I never understood why there were no locks on the door. You would think you’d need permission before walking in on someone’ “private” holodeck session.
We've seen all the times when the holodeck malfunctions and something else keeps the crew from staging a rescue. You want to put another barrier in their way?
It is possible this would be a method for discouraging the more depraved uses people would have with a holodeck.
Roddenberry "In the future there will be no locks! No shame! I have so perfectly extrapolated the free love movement in the 1960s, people will only become less uptight about sex in the future."
I guess that's where the holosuite's in DS9 come in.
I would imagine, since it's the holodeck on a Starfleet vessel, it's similar to a company allowing employees to use the office network for LAN parties after-hours. Sure, you get to blow off some steam, but you get no privacy so keep it SFW. And official use/training gets priority.
I always assumed the reason Starfleet ships had the ability to suddenly conjure up crewmates and Quark's Holosuites didn't is because Starfleet has extremely detailed scans of crew on file, be it for medical or transporter purposes. And, though I know you don't like Lower Decks, Boimler said he used (with apparently unrestricted access) everyone's Starfleet personal logs to make accurate representations of crewmates in his holodeck program. Meanwhile Quark and other public holo programs need to be programmed the hard way. So that begs the question... are ALL Starfleet crew records just a massive HR disaster??
I never thought about that... But yeah, Boimler's program is a massive breach of confidentiality.
My personal logs should be my business and my business alone.
When Voyager starts communicating with Star Fleet via Barclay The Doctor glibly lists some of B.'s medical conditions. Apparently medical privacy does not exist in the 24th century. So yeah probably, apparently they have evolved beyond the need for privacy and other such hang-ups. 🤪
Forget diary entries - crew members have access to each other's MEDICAL RECORDS!!!
Sounds like Starfleet needs to work on their Identity and Access policies, 😆
Plus, DS9 is a Cardassian station not a Starfleet one. Given how security focussed the Cardassians are, the holodecks were less likely to have access to crew scans.
The usage of holodecks in Quark's Bar, and the fact his brother has to clean them up with a mop afterwards, makes drastically more sense than anything they did with the holodecks in Next Generation.
Never portrayed on the show, Enterprise D definitely had a crewman known affectionately as 'Ensign Spoogemopper'
The fact that Geordi *can* accidentally create a hologram of Leah so easily without intending to, and that hologram is apparently into him without him intending to seems to suggest to me that the use case is design intent. Or at least common enough that the templates have become default.
"Damn, I need to keep track of all these notes. Computer, create a secretary for me."
"Male or female?"
*shrugs* Female... I guess.
*porn music kicks in*
"Dammit, not this again!"
Lol, pornogram is the default setting. Must’ve been Gene Roddenberry designing Star Fleets holodeck.
It indicates the computer knows him really well, I think.
Enterprise D's main computer really just wanted to justify that D.
Enterprise E's computer picks up right where the D left off, though was more literary in its attempt.
Enterprise F's computer: Lets get it ON!
AKA it's the sex room often enough that the programmers just default to horny mode.
The weirdest holodeck use to me for the implications it had was from "We'll Always Have Paris", where Picard encounters his old flame and he goes to the holodeck and gives it the time and place of a date he was supposed to have with her back in the day and the program depicts his old girlfriend as a younger woman having a conversation with her friend about him. It was weird because it either means that Picard programmed that in himself some time ago, OR the holodeck came pre-loaded with the data it needed to accurately depict those events. Those events being a private conversation between two civilians. Is Federation Earth a surveillance state???
The modern US is a fascist surveillance state, I imagine a government hundreds of years in the future will have 100x our capabilities and use them with wild abandon.
Yes. Multiple episodes show that Earth is constantly monitored and each Starfleet crew member gives detailed recorded personal and professional logs kept in the Starfleet database. Crew members are discouraged from having any secrets and their personal time is often logged in numerous ways even when they go on vacation or leave Starfleet.
Nah. Probably like, how Roombas have cameras or cars or some surgical equipment has cameras in our reality... I figure there's so much smart tech on Earth in Trek that a sufficently advanced computer such as a Starship could pull archived 'data' like that.
@@simondaniel4028 you’re describing a surveillance state - where we buy Roombas, Ring doorbells, internet connected lights, and other devices that allow law enforcement to see exactly what citizens are doing. Perhaps even to tease out other behaviors, like visits to an abortion clinic in a different state, or other things that could be charged as crimes.
There are actually deep learning-based systems (such as GPT-3) today that can infer made-up but "realistic" information given a few clues. I imagine that is what the holodeck was doing in "We'll Always Have Paris". The computer didn't actually know what happened, but it made realistic guesses based on available information.
Unofficial SHCR rules (Starfleet Holodeck Crew Recreation)
1: What happens on the holodeck stays on the holodeck.
2: When creating a SHCR always program a visual error or mark on the SHCR only you know off and detect to let you know if it's SHCR or the real crewmate.
3: Always maintain a strong understanding of difference between Reality and Holodeck.
4: Never base your relationships and interaction with crewmates on holodeck interactions.
5: Remember Your out in outer space where your life and theirs depend on each other. (better to forgive then die in a vacuum)
6: Seek out counsel for you or them ASAP if you or them either one break SHCR rule 1.
7: Should you find someone SHCRing you take a moment to see how they are SCHRing you, You might find the SHCR might show how much more trusting they are of you. (refer to rule 5 if in any way prevents you or them working together).
8: Better they do questionable things to your SHCR then real you.
9: When all else fails remember this phrase: "Sorry chief, holodeck is broken again" followed up with: " No captain I can't explain phaser burned iceoliner chips".
10: When in doubt and the SCHR is not a serious proplem for you or them refer to SHCR rule 1.
Number 9 is my favorite rule lol
It's kind of an existential nightmare too. I mean, people in the real world sometimes wonder if they're "living in the matrix", imagine how much more pronounced that would be in a world where high quality false realities are an everyday fact. I bet quite a few Federation types have, in a moment of stress, shouted "Computer, end program!", just in case they're in a holodeck simulation.
None other than Barclay does precisely this at the end of TNG S6: "Ship In A Bottle", though more out of playful curiosity than stress. I suppose sci-fi fantasy and sci-fi nightmare are really two sides of the same coin.
By the 24th century, "end program" is the universal safe-word.
@@graemebart6818 Picard also speculates in the second Moriarty episode, again light heartedly and as a meta-joke that it's possible that just like Moriarty they are living out a simulated life in a device sitting on someone's table.
@@PrincessOzaline I forgot about that part!
Would have been an interesting take on the "it was all a dream" trope. Things start normally enough, everything goes to shit and at the last moment, as the ship burns, the MC, or some previously dead character calls out "COMPUTER, End program!" MC sits on the ground for a second, then gets up and walks out, past a slew or command staff with data pads. A one-shot Kobayashi Maru type of thing but unlike Troy's attempt, the audience doesn't know until the end.
In Lower Decks they talked about replacing the holodeck's biofilter. The captain was shocked to learn that the crew mostly used the holodeck in a way that would require a filter to pick up their "biological waste". Also on the Orville (not really ST but might as well be) an officer almost got fired when he introduced a virus to the ship's computer in an attempt to get more porn into the holodeck (or whatever they call it on the Orville). So some writers have explored what lonely people in space would really use a holodeck for.
To paraphrase the words of the most famous captain in the fleet: "the last time the holodeck malfunctioned, I got hit with three paternity suits."
Yeah, OK so it was Zapp Brannigan.
Yeah, and then he heads right back to it. It's probably not fixed yet, Evil Lincoln is still out. Well, it's Zapp.
That's the holoshed. Completely different technology.
I know you don't care for Lower Decks, but they were right...they're gonna use it for mostly THAT.
Having to clean the sperma collection tank of the holodeck 😂
The holodeck truly does represent the... if not the best, then the most indulgent part of Gene's vision.
I need a USS Cerritos like series without the supposed humor from Lower Decks.
Seeing how they function as part of the fleet, if Enterprise is the Flagship then what are the ships under their command doing
THAT is an anus!
Tuvok uses it for that.
I think a better Voyager example of their typical attitude would be in that episode where they think they've found a holonovel of an alternative universe where the Maquis took over the ship, and what they want most is the author to finish the darn thing!
But Tuvok had a very logical reason for using them in a tactical training scenario to cover that situation and hiding it when it became unnecessary The unusual part of that episode was submitting to the mistaken assumption that it was a holonovel instead of just letting Tuvok just finish the training simulation. I would think that was why on TNG they were used to having training simulations using their crew mates as holograms.
The optimistic side of my brain imagines that crew members can set permissions on who has access to their likeness in the holodeck. As well as access records of who accessed it. It could serve as replacement for dating apps.
"Computer, send Lt. Virginslayer the following message. 'Hey Brett. I noticed you've accessed my holodate profile five times this month. I'll be at Ten Forward at 8 all this week. Either make a move, or I'm cutting you off."
"Worst case Scenario" was the episode's title. I had wondered, if the holo-Bajorans had been told of Seska's secret; [surgically and genetically altered CARDASSIAN] would they have turned on holo-Seska?
@@ArgonTheAware did Tuvok also have a logical reason to use a copy of Neelix to murder over and over when he mind melded with a murderer?
@@Katie-hj5eb Obviously since that was a form of therapy, would you rather the have Tuvok try it out on the real Neelix instead, how logical would that have been? The whole purpose was that Tuvok was trying to learn to control those impules
The only problem I would have with somebody creating a version of me to live out their sex fantasies is that they didn't include the real me! I'm right here, don't keep that shit to yourself! 😁
Yeah! At least let me watch with a bucket of popcorn!
The sheer POWER of this statement!
This just made me realise that the future version of camming would be selling an interactive holographic template of yourself…
@@kaitlyn__L I think that's highly likely. It stands to reason.
Works fine until its someone you don't like at all,
As a team leader in a call centre, now that you've put this in my brain - Oh holy Christ what an HR nightmare this would be. If something like the holodeck existed, I can think of a dozen things already that could go wrong with it and how it could be abused. Never mind actually sitting down to think of it, there's probably an ocean of HR issues that would need to be looked into there.
My sister does work in HR, I'm going to send her this video and ask her opinion.
HR put up with so much shit.
“I’m trying to find out who the snackroom fiddler is.”
“*Wait, we had something for this. Pita-predator.*”
“What, that’s dis-“
“*You’re right, we should call it what it is.
Food rapist.*”
“Don’t you have a job to do??”
So what did she say?
They'd definitely have to build in some way to make photos and other recordings of the holograms impossible. Otherwise it would lead to all sorts of social problems. Even then you'd always have couples disagreeing about whether or not relations (of whatever level) with holograms count as cheating.
When your superior officer calls you to the holodeck for your annual review, and you walk in to find it configured as a vast abattoir, strewn with countless copies of you, each tortured to death in horribly imaginative ways. 😱
Maybe the Enterprise D Crew's lack of reaction has to do with how tame Barclay's fantasies are; or maybe, the entire chill atmosphere on the ship is down to Troy's secret emotional control powers, deadening their feelings?
And then your performance review goes great, and you ask what was going on with the torture dungeon.
"Oh, I just asked the computer for something that would make you motivated to listen, and this was the first program it had that was technically safe for work."
Or they're all secretly at it and don't want to be the one that rocks the boat!
Interesting trivia tidbit from DS9; it's illegal in the Federation to enter an occupied holodeck without the occupier's permission.
Something mentioned only once and seemingly never enforced.
EDIT: It's also illegal to use a person's likeness without their consent. Again, mentioned once and never enforced.
Yeah, imagine if Bashir had been fucking that lady when Garak entered instead of just kissing her. lol.
@@bipolarminddroppings Higher rank doesn't put you above the law though.
@@manoffewtalents9992 be good if police knew this
Which DS9 episode? I wanna re-watch it ; )
@@mikeoyler2983 It's "Our man bashir", wherein garak gatecrashes bashir's James Bond fantasy and much of the remaining main cast wind up as characters due to a station malfunction. It's a great episode.
Looking back on it, how was there not a month's long waiting list for use of the holodeck? Cast members seem to just be able to walk in and use whenever they want. Maybe the regular crew were terrified of being the next victim of the Ship's computer's need for blood.
How do we know they could use it whenever they wanted?
It could be a schedule. Your time is this time and you must be finished 5 minutes before the slot ended.
@@catprog It will be a schedule. Time allowance according to rank. What you can do inside (such as creating crew members or how far you can go with those characters) set according to rank.
Of course the crew won't get access during their working hours and I guess the "censorship" for lower ranks will be very high so that they are not too much interested in the Holodeck.
I think an interesting thing to consider is maybe the culture aboard the Enterprise D is more chill about holodeck personalities, because they're simply more familiar with the advanced holodecks that can do such things on demand, and since the ship is their home for an extended period of time, that holodeck (and making other people on it) becomes a lot more casually regarded.
Exactly. There's no "how dare you be unclothed in a _Federation provided_ shower?". Same deal for the 'deck. Long voyage; folks are folks. Just a Roddenberry-style understanding of humaniforms ... and humaniform randiness. Okay, maybe divide Roddenberry-level by roughly 20 to get to the median.
Hey Steve, remember the one where Troi takes the bridge officer's exam and orders (simulated) LaForge to his death?
I think the only time most people who are not Barkley simulate their co-workers, it is for purposes the person being simulated would not hesitate to grant permission for, and nobody would ever really think to do otherwise, so the issue just never comes up.
If you re-watch the episode, I get "Barkley is a loss" vibes, as if the computer has highlighted Barkley for underperformance in his duties. The inevitable conclusion seems to be that junior officers on the Enterprise are taken for granted and do not necessarily have anyone looking out for them. I would assume a system of mentorship was in place. But, Command seems blind-sided by Barkley and his extra curricular activities.
Since Barkley is not dismissed/transferred, we see a mentorship start: one that should have already been in place. I get a feeling like therapy is commonplace, though not everyone avails themselves of the service.
Barkley is not breaking law or regulation. But, his behavior is embarrassing. Maybe 'juvenile'? If you want to beat up a peer, maybe you should talk to someone about it. If you want to kiss a co-worker, maybe you should talk to someone about it? Therapy. 12-year-olds use a holodeck. Adults work things out or at least talk the problem through with someone.
I think Barkley should never have gotten to the point he was at. It was a command failure and an HR/Troy failure. Picard might even be considering the embarrassment of the transfer when he decides to make Barkley a "project".
My colleague spends a lot of time on his phone at work. So much that it interferes with his work. It may be a HR problem but I can tell you that there is no mentor or counselor there.
I mean bluntly there is not a substantial difference between what he is doing and writing escapist fiction from a moral standpoint. I think their reaction was entirely correct. He was never doing any serial killing either.
my thoughts exactly, see my comment.
One thing that always gets me about the holodeck and the technology in general is that no one seems to consider the possibility of it being used to fake one’s own identity. We even see this done or more than one occasion where the visual communications are forged to make it look like the speakers are someone else. As this is clearly possible, why doesn’t anyone in the Trek universe ever assume or consider that who they can see on the other end of their com link might not actually be the person that they appear to be taking to. No one ever seems to suspect this could be the case, and where this kind of deception is employed, it usually works.
Starfleet Intelligence could have been laying down all kinds of effective espionage and counter intelligence just by using their Weyoun Insta filter.
You missed an important bit of canon information that is said on Lower Decks: holodecks have *beep* filters always so full that need manual cleaning
Biowaste. Just call it biowaste.
@@LexYeen the beep is funnier than biowaste.
@@LexYeen I can definitely imagine the ensigns calling it a cum filter even if biowaste separator is the official Starfleet term!
Can we pretend that never happened? Lower Decks had some decent jokes, but that was not one of them.
@@johncattley5919 Nope, it's a great joke
"Oh hi Bark!" Oh no, I think that joke was for me as well. :) It actually sounds way more sincere and meaningful if it were coming from one crewmate who liked him enough to come up with a distinctive nickname.
I guess to me it's always been a mix of "don't ask don't tell" and the type of personality that finds a 6 inch hull between you and the Void fascinating sort of situation.
7:58 there was an episode in TNG where they revived some 1990's civilians from deep space. They got on the intercom at one point, and when Picard questioned them about it, they asked why isn't this function cut off to only certain personnel. Picard's response was, "because we just know not to do that..." (I may not have that scenario accurate, but it was roughly that)
There would totally be a legal precedent set of not getting to use someones likeness after holodeck tech became ubiquitous in the Federation. I can imagine an entire culture of asking & consenting to the use of someone’s likeness. DS9 touched on this briefly with Quark and Kira. I always interpreted Barclays holodeck misappropriation as being him using his engineering clearance to use his co workers likeness.
maybe in their contracts or w/e there's a clause saying their likeness can be used by the on board holodeck, like for training or w/e? making it a whole lot more complicated legal mess
I doubt he'd be using a work around as you'd assume the crew would be more shocked n maybe investigate more but who knows he could've
dont forget Quark wasn't in star fleet and DS9 doesn't have to follow federation rules.
Odds are in a universe where there is no need to protect your likeness for financial gain personal use of your exact look may not be considered worth fighting about to rigidly.
But as we've seen depending on how it's used it could be considered rude. Which is honestly the logical considering the technology and the pure amount of data available on everyone.
I can't help but think that Barclay's holodeck adventures get much more adult. Like how he instructs the computer to delete all his programs, and then just before leaving the holodeck, he says "...except Program 9." Something tells me that's the dirty one.
haha "THE" dirty one!
More likely, that's the *ONE* clean one!
@@AndrewD8Red I mean, it's easier to dirty up a clean program, I'd assume. Since I'm told basically every hit film and TV show has it's, uhm, *very* adult 'parody', but you don't really see any movement the other way, despite what I'm sure are the most strenuous efforts of pornographers to incorporate character driven, emotionally-uplifting thematic content into their smut.
Y'ever see the episode of Black Mirror where a dude makes digital copies of his work colleagues, puts them in a VR simulation of "Not the Enterprise" from a TV show that's "Not Star Trek" and just tortures them endlessly and horribly?
That's basically what I think Barclay was up to, and that's why I don't really like Barclay. He's got Nice Guy/Incel vibes.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t one exception I can think of would be Valerie Halla, some characters which originated in her smut also show up in her SFW stuff, and both of her flavours of game, comic, or prose tend to be quite character-and emotion-driven. But then, I guess she’s hardly mainstream, except among online trans women in their 20s and 30s. (The popularity there is probably because estrogen tends to make Feels enhance the effects of smut by an order of magnitude; also hence why pre-online, women tended to go for “spicy romance novels” rather than “porn” - but really, both are types of smut, let’s be honest.)
And now I have semantic satiation on a bunch of these words lmao
In the Barkly episode I think the writers were using the Holodeck program mostly as a metaphor for Barkly's imagination and internal life. So they reacted more like they would to learning about someone's fantasies about them. They found the fantasies odd and maybe unflattering, but never considered to be a violation because what someone does with their imagination is their own business until they make it a problem for someone else. Addressing the very valid concern that your image is being used without your permission in that episode would have undercut the metaphor for that episode which was about mental health not, sexual exploitation and I think it was probably the correct call.
Most other episodes dealing with the Holodeck usually don't engage with it in such an abstract manner, which I think is why you find very different attitudes about the holodeck in other episodes.
Falls under if it ant hurting no one mentality :)
And the if i dont know about it and it never hurts me directly then there is no problem.
I am sure in a more commercial or public use scenario there are some checks and balances if you feel slighted.
i mean it's a holodeck :) just reroll the look of the avatar.
The holodeck could be great for practicing difficult conversations with people, or learning to work with someone difficult.
Remember that VOY episode where Tuvok murderered Neelix in the holodeck. Its suggested in a conversation with Sudor and Tuvok that violence against real people in the holodeck isn’t against the rules.
I like the prohibition idea, it would seem to explain why people are disapproving but no longer try and stop people from doing what they want in there.
To be fair, I am sure everyone has murdered Neelix in the holodeck at lest once.
I think it is interesting to compare this to how various communities and their celebrities react to "rule 34" of themselves. Reactions vary from enthusiasm to disgust to "meh, what are you gonna do". Also, a starship kind of blurs the line on when you are at work. You're there for years, right? And the current military is not exactly known for addressing it's sexual harassment issues openly. I think the wide range of reactions you see in "The Next Generation" is quite believable.
There was another episode where the likenesses of the Voyager crew were used against their will. Tuvok's Maquis Mutiny program from "Insurrection Alpha." By comparison to "I, Author," the crew were pretty excited by the program. The former Maquis crewmembers weren't even bothered at being cast as the villains.
As an aside, that's one of those episodes where I wish there hadn't been real stakes added in the last act.
Vulcans write the best holonovels.
A few things came to mind with this one. First, and to get it out of the way, I think the meta reason why the crew don't get too upset about it is because of Roddenberry's design directive that the crew generally get along and solve issues amicably. In that way, it makes them appear to be "emotionally evolved" people rather than at their throats over every minor slight.
As for social attitudes towards the holodeck in-universe, the impression I got was that it's generally taboo to recreate people you know, but if you do it's okay to blow off a bit of steam during your private time. Like, if everyone understands the separation of indulgent fantasy and reality, it'd still be embarrassing but not the end of your career. I mean, the fact that they weren't nude or being tortured is probably why he was let off so easily. But I totally agree that, if it had been on any other ship, he'd risk alienating most people.
To put it in another perspective; anyone is free to cut up magazines or do a bit of Photoshop and craft fake nudes of people they know or famous people. Anyone is free to write fan-fiction about anyone. And as long as you keep it private, it won't creep anyone out or think you're stalking them. It's not illegal in itself unless you're meeting the definition of stalking. And if all you're doing is writing bad fantasy fanfic... what's the harm in letting it continue?
And yet if your cut up pictures and fanfics accidentally slip out, they ARE an issue.
everyone is justifiably creeped out by you.
_everything_ is fine with other people if they don’t know about it existing
@@joearnold6881 that’s why people say “ew, keep it to yourself”, right?
Yeah I have to agree. The man ultimately did nothing worse than writing escapist fiction with himself as the protagonist. Sure it's creepy escapist fiction, but there's nothing unethical about it.
@@joearnold6881 As Gruncle Stan says, "Everything is legal when there are no cops around!"
In this case, everything is socially acceptable as long as nobody finds out to ostracize you over it. That's how gay people lived their lives for centuries.
As a kid reading X-Men comics at the time, when TNG came out, I've always called it the Danger Room
Yep the danger room and the holodeck are very similar
"I've got her cleaning (bleep) from the holodeck's (bleep) filters!"
"Do people use it for that?"
"Yeah, it's mostly that."
Devil's advocate here: what is the moral difference between fantasizing about getting intimate with a co-worker in your mind vs living out a fantasy in a supposedly private computer simulation?
I honestly can't quite figure out if the show is trying to make the case that the fantasies themselves are bad or the fact that he used the holo-deck for them is bad.
I've had this discussion of the moral implications numerous times in the last few years due to VR wank games and people, yeah, recreating the likenesses of friends and coworkers in them. It's my opinion that fantasizing is a perfectly normal human behavior, _to a point._ But once you use technological means to _realize_ that fantasy _outside_ of your head, a line is crossed. And using the likenesses of real people, especially people you know, is a bit of a creep move. (And demonstrates a lack of imagination, honestly.) There's nothing necessarily wrong with utilizing said technology, but if you're going to fantasize...go all the way; put effort into making idealized or fantastical characters, instead of recreating the likenesses of people you know without their permission. 🤔
@@Bakamoichigei except the holodeck has replaced tv in their time so it’s essentially the same as making a sim that looks like someone you know or throwing darts at a picture of someone. As long as it is private then there shouldn’t be a problem.
The issue wasn't the fantasies, it was the fact the he is living in a fantasy and only working in the real world. It actually even starts to effect his job. Its a allegory for drug addiction.
morally hmm depends who you ask and their background. from a practical perspective i think it's hard to legislate & police, edge cases of identical twins is one thing when one gives permission and the other not. true their likeness isn't 100% identical but if such small difference in likeness counts then it would be pretty easy to just take someone's profile and change it by that same amount and be good no?
and in case of fictional realistic faces. what if one was made and in the future one gets born and grows up to be that exact fictional profile by stupid coincidence?
going further wouldn't someone just create crazy amount of profiles before people with those profiles exist? Something like that happened with trademark logo's i think?
its not like the image resembles the crew but the crew resembles a selection of pre-made images. >.< well i dunno >.<
I'm inclined to say it might be creepy but can't find moral fault with it.
This was my objection as well, it seemed like the show and of this video just skips over this issue and assumes that everyone knows. But the case hasn't yet been made. The moment humans could see we didn't own our physical likeness.
I figured that the Enterprise and some other Starfleet vessels would have full holo profiles on the crew and others to assist in training simulations, and other types of programs like Geordi used with Dr. Brahms. That would explain why the privately owned suites at DS9 were lacking.
This reminds me of Red Dwarf, especially since one of the main characters is an hologram, and he got punished for abusing it. Rimmer, as a nanobot creation, was thrown in the brig when Red Dwarf became revived. The rest of the main cast was thrown in for stealing Red Dwarf (not really since they didn't know they died, and only they were left), but Rimmer tried to get ahead the same way Barclay was.
Back to Earth and the typewriter. Better than Life (the book version is particularly grim). Whatever the episode with Lisa Yates was called...gimme a sec. Thanks for the Memory.
I was actually thinking of Holo-Chakotay who was literally created to be a Real Doll for Seven of Nine (which was a terrible mistake because we know Seven's perfect partner is Samantha Wildman). They definitely use the technology for romantic escapades with replicas of coworkers.
And didn’t Tuvok murder holo-Neelix?
@@johncattley5919 That program must be one of the most popular in the library.
Maybe the crew is so chill due to some selection process in Starfleet to pick especially low-drama people for ships that take long exploration voyages due to how dangerous it could be if the crew start to annoy each other too much.
In gaming, there's what we call gameplay/story segregation - where things that would normally be nonsensical in the plot, must be accepted because they need to actually make a game of it. I think there's something similar taking place with Star Trek TV shows - where certain things that wouldn't make sense in the context of reality, must happen to create the TV show, and make it engaging.
If Star Trek was reality, a person's holodek program would only be accessable by them, and the door would be locked while such a program is in session. I would imagine for anyone else to see such program, such as for evidence purposes, some form of warrant would be required. However, as showing is more interesting than telling, and it isn't a crime procedural, the episodes choose to show.
In terms of a workplace, the closest thing would be having content on your password protected user folder on the company network. While administration/IT may have access to it, they're not going to poke around without reason.
Now, let's say that only the person who made it, can see it - as would generally be the reality of the situation. The question remains, is it more, or less creepy than fantasizing (mentally) about said person? Either way the person of interest would be horrified and disgusted, if they found out. And there most certainly would be disciplinary action from walking up and telling said person that you "blow your own mind" while picturing them doing it, so I think that such holodeck programs would be treated the same way.
Unlike current "media" such as deep fakes, revenge porn, or edited videos, there wouldn't really be a need to pass such a thing around the office - as literally anyone can fantasize about whoever they wanted in a holodeck program.
Steve, you should consider that there would be a protocol to announce that you're going into a holodeck. Sometimes, people might want to go into the holodeck to have a private conversation or scene like when Gordi was on a date on the beach in the holodeck. That way, the people in the holodeck would have an opportunity to turn off the scene.
I know! I thought there should be a lock on the door or a notification that someone has entered. I guess realism doesn’t always make the best TV.
@@dr.moneypenny9748 Well, there is in a way. You don't just walk into a holodeck unless you want to walk into a black void filled with yellow grid lines on everything, you go to a panel and input your program there then, when the computer says 'Holodeck ready', then you walk inside. Even Scotty did it that way in Relics.
It might not be that easy to make realistic simulations of real people even on the Enterprise's holodeck. Despite his quirks, Reg is a genius engineer with a holodeck obsession. He has the talent and the motivation to make programs that most people probably can't.
In Meridian, it would have been possible to make an image of Kira if she had used the holosuite. Quark’s desperation was because she never used it.
Don't forget the holodeck was new technology when we see it in Encounter at Farpoint. The best it could do at first were landscapes and a sparring partner for Tasha. It's wasn't until after upgrades in The Big Goodbye that we even saw interactive characters and settings, let alone what happened in 11001001. So they're in uncharted waters as far as policy and ethics and all that. It's not until DS9 that we even get a hint that they've started catching up, where Bashir mentions to Garak that it's illegal to enter someone else's program while it's running.
"What's up Barc" would inevitably evolve into people barking at him from across the room. This would create for the fun scene when someone has to explain this to Data where he eventually does a spot on impression (AKA recording of a real dog).
Personally, I'd prefer "Barks" in homage to Carl. Plus, there's that Disney connection ...
Don't forget that in early TNG, there was the (I'm guessing Roddenberry-pushed) notion that people in that era were supposed to be capable of self restraint. S1 episode The Neutral Zone comes to mind where the obnoxious money-driven guy that they defrost uses the intercom to speak to Picard, and then gets a talking to. You could argue that that same philosophy also applied to holodeck use. I mean don't get me wrong, that philosophy was quickly forgotten, but it could provide an explanation as to why the crew reacted like Berk was just a weirdo and it was no real biggie.
Actually, the Holosuits were able to recreate a member of staff on DS9 later on in the show. It was the likeness of Kira Nerys, that was brought to live in the Holosuit by singer Vic Fontaine in the episode "His Way" to help Odo get more comfortable around the major, which he was in love with..
Yeah, I think Quark's problem was just that being the owner of a private business he didn't have access to the personnel files for the crew, whereas the Enterprise holodecks have access to the main computer and all the personnel files, transporter logs and medical records held there.
The only reason the Kira hologram was possible was the events of Our Man Bashir
Vic is using the Anastasia Komananov hologram that looks like Kira Nerys from Our Man Bashir.
In season 3, Kira had apparently never been into the holosuites so there was no holoscan of her, which was why Quark couldn't use her likeness yet. In season 4, Jadzia roped her into joining her in a number of programs (as seen in "The Way of the Warrior"), then later on "Our Man, Bashir" happened. In "His Way" Vic says the Kira likeness he used was from "Our Man, Bashir" and it apparently took him ages to get rid of the fake Russian accent
So does that mean that ANYONE who went to Vic Fontaine's club, that their holoscan or whatever is now in the computers memory and could Be used in future programs?
Think about what will happen when the entire ships gets holo emitters so they can have holograms in their private quarters and they can obviously lock the doors then (Even if it’s overridden it will give them enough time to end any program)
It reminds me of Google Glass and how the concept of a wearable, ever-present camera forced a lot of people to evaluate what privacy is. While it was a commercial failure (at least the consumer version), there will be a time when that technology is everywhere (much like how we all carry around 4K video cameras at all times). Those who are adults when this technology becomes common will struggle with the idea, but those who grow up with it won't give it a second thought. Apprehension and prohibition will eventually give way to etiquette and a world with very different expectations of what privacy is.
Which is also means that the topic of this video is much closer than you'd think. Software already exists today to make 3D models from 2D images, and technology like LiDAR scanning is becoming common on consumer products. We're on the cusp of consumer-level AR, which models the world around us as we move through it. Not only will having virtual models of the people around us be possible in the near future, it will be necessary for certain technologies to work. Where today one pulls up photos to reminisce, a time is coming soon where you can literally walk through your past. And after that, a point when you can interact with it.
While physical interaction is a ways off, the rest of the holodeck technology is really only a decade or so out, if not much sooner.
Keeping a calm and assertive mindset is likely one of the pillar qualifications in being accepted into Starfleet. Makes sense that they'd be the best of the best considering that they are Starfleet's flagship. Mindset is one of most important qualities for the real world military as well. I think the writers and actors considered that while developing these characters. And also why Counselor Troi role was not more robust; it wouldn't make sense for the senor staff to be in constant need of counseling.
Ever since I first saw TNG, I knew we would never realize the society as portrayed by the show. Because the holodeck will be humanity’s last invention.
"Milks his prostate" is absolutely insane lmaoooo
I think of the holodeck as an extension of the imagination. One can fantasize about all kinds of depraved scenarios with people they know and it doesn't hurt the subjects of the fantasy because it exists only in ones mind.
10:05 "Who would even think to eat it in the first place?"
This one's actually very straightforward: The companies manufacturing the packets sell the same product to the shoe manufacturers as they do to (for example) beef jerky manufacturers. In the latter case the message makes a little more sense and the consequence is that it's present in thef ormer case.
As for HR reactions, I agree that today it'd be a nightmare - but as this was filmed in the late 80s and 90s, and this was a time where it was still considered acceptable to go for a couple of beers on your office job's lunch break, I think it makes a little more sense.
We're old dude, and TNG's dated. Though I still love it, much of it simply doesn't stand up to the moral standards of >30 years hence.
You know "The Orville" tackled this in season 2 right? As a matter of fact it led to a virus infecting the entire ship.
10:59 it's all about the data. There's data for all the characters that the holodeck creates, so when you say it it can make them. One of the ways quark tries to get Kira's data is literally just to get her in the suite once.
All the people Barclay created use the holodeck all the time.
Also it can be assumed that the enterprise has access to a larder database than quark's backroom suite. His suite isn't hooked onto the stations entire network. It's also, presumably, a mixture of cardasskan and ferengi tech rather than federation tech.
I always thought that holodecks had protocols and safeguards to prevent stuff like this from happening. Barclay is a unique case due to him being an extremely talented engineer who specialized in holodeck technology. He just had the means to override the protocols. Most of the time you might be able to recreate a person who is true to that person's character, and that person may legitmately be capable of falling in love with you like in geordi's case, but you cant alter people in a way in which they'd have sex with you when they normally wouldnt.
I think a good real world analogy is with deep fakes
Honestly, this is already becoming a thing in the real world. I've had this discussion of the moral implications numerous times because of what has been enabled by the offerings of _certain sectors of the VR games industry._ There are totally people making VR wank fantasies using even their friends' and coworkers' likenesses, and it's kind of messed up. Fantasizing is perfectly normal to a point, but once you're using technological means to realize those fantasies _outside_ of your head, a line's been crossed. If you're going to fantasize like that, go all the way and make something fantastical or idealized, don't use people you know. That's a creep move, and frankly just demonstrates a lack of imagination. 😬
It's only a matter of time before the VR wank stuff intersects with deepfakes, and it's at that point I think we're going to see laws made... (Or at least lawsuits.) Considering what AI like Dall-e can do, we're only a couple years away from having all the different pieces of technology required to emulate the TNG holodeck's ability to recreate the likeness of someone upon request for whatever you want. So, _yeah._ I'm sure _it'll be fine._ 😬
I always assumed the reason why Quark couldn't just make a hologram of Kira was because the holodeck/holosuites could only create holograms of people who've been inside that particular holodeck/holosuite. It wasn't until later that Kira went into one for the first time herself. And the personality the holograms are based on data stored on the ship's computers, so maybe Quark had the data needed to make the personality of Kira but not the image of her
I always looked at the "HR" issue like this;
Ok so we can all agree Barklay is a representation of the type of person that would snap and "go postal" on his coworkers. But with the holodeck he can create a program and "go postal" in there. Kinda like playing GTA when you are stressed. On the DS9 I figured all Starfleet members have scans of themselves for simulation reasons. Since Kira wasn't in starfleet she doesn't have a holoscan of her. So Quark couldn't just "download" her representation
On the self restraint or lack of rules - I am reminded of "The Neutral Zone" where one of the 20th century humans is told by Picard that they don't need locks on the comm system because people aboard just have the restraint not to abuse it.
Really random, but you’re thing about whether or not Barcley actually likes being called “Reg” or night reminds me of when I was in the Army. I have an XO that randomly started calling me “Billy” because he said I looked like a Billy (my name is Christopher). I never really told him to stop because it didn’t hurt anyone or anything, but I didn’t care for the nickname. Now I’d definitely say something, but 20 year old me didn’t.
What about the "Picard burger"?
All you need to do is store some data from the transport-buffer and then feed it into the food replicators to find out who in the command staff tastes best when ground up grilled and put between some buns with few veggies and condiments?
As implications go, this is both hilarious and disturbing. The TNG crew would probably be fine with it.
The Donner Party of the 24th century! A la carte or the meal combo with fries and soft drink. Make your reservations today. BYOB. 😁
I guess if it was Wesley Crusher.. it could be considered veal..
One more example: In the Voyager season 6 episode 'Pathfinder' where Barcley re-did the voyager crew on the holodeck, Admiral Paris mentioned it and seemed disturbed of the idea
"[I did not hit her, I did nooaat.]
Oh hi, Barc."
:D I loved it.
I thought it was interesting in "Hollow Pursuits" that everyone thought it was funny, until they ran across images of themselves. Troi, especially, is in the middle of telling Riker how he should have a sense of humor about it, when she runs into holo-Troi and immediately switches to, "Burn it, burn it with fire" mode. I guess it's only wrong if it's not you?
As far as the comment about Picard recreating a subordinate, we all know that's wrong and should never happen. He should jump to the Mirror Universe and go to town on the MU versions of his subordinates, like Sisko did, instead. Jokes aside, not enough is said about how gross that was.
Yes, that's a very realistic human reaction. "People are perfect now" doesn't make good storytelling.
It's fascinating to me that we're now having the exact same discussions in the Age of AI, where the whole actors guild went on strike to prevent their likeliness being used in movies or TV series. We're now able to recreate people with AI, just like in an actual holodeck. So now those questions about whether we should, are no longer questions for the future.
It'd be interesting to juxtapose the reaction of the Enterprise crew's reaction to the holodeck replications of them with the open disdain they express for the non-consented cloning they went through... I realize there'd be a few practical differences that come up, but on one level it's not as though holodeck entities aren't capable of gaining their own sentence and manifesting physical representations of themselves pretty much anywhere, particularly by the time of doctor in Voyager....
Just interesting to consider the contrast.
I work in a place where a lot of employees live in dorm housing on property. There are actually some accomodations made for things that you'd think would be against the rules. Sex with coworkers is fine behind closed doors as long as its consentual. Getting drunk off duty is fine. Stuff like that. Hell, you'd really have to try to get written up while off duty. Pretty much the biggest no no is being rude to a coworker on or off the clock.
Also, the reason that Quark's holodecks don't have access to crew data and images is because his system is independant of the federation systems on that station. On the enterprise the holodeck is tied in with every other system on the ship, which includes the medical library which would have all of the data needed to make a likeness of anyone as was done with Leah Brahms.
What has always got me is that when Quark tries to create a holographic version of Kira, Odo is on him like a hawk, but a few seasons later Vic Fontaine creates a holographic Kira for Odo to 'practice' on and he seems to think it's perfectly acceptable. What's more, Kira is furious when Quark does it, but when she finds out that the friend she trusted did it, she doesn't seem pissed off. Not for that reason anyway. She's annoyed at Vic, but that's for tricking them, not for creating the hologram.
Vic didn't create holo-Kira, she was a leftover image from Dr. Bashir's spy program that Vic tinkered on for Odo to practice on
Kira was somewhat into Odo but found Quark repulsive. Same reason that 50 Shades is received positively by many but if you switch Christian Grey with a broke middle age man it would be an episode of Law & Order: SVU. 😂
One thing I always thought about the Holo Deck was despite how advanced it is literally anything including someone sneezing next to the console before you go in sends it haywire and sometimes it almost destroys the ship.
The amount of times I've watched Trek and saw a holodeck episode I went "Ahh fantastic I can't wait to see what cosmic space fart is gonna appear from nowhere and malfunction the holodeck for the episode" like seriously it's one of the most advanced pieces of tech on the Enterprise yet at the same time it's as delicate as a flower 🤣
Judging it by "our real world standards", I have to say, what is the problem?
I may have a fantasy about a colleague. That is entirely my business. I might write my fantasy down, create artworks to illustrate that fantasy, maybe even create an animation. And as I live in the 21st century, i could do all this using an online system, maybe even a VR platform. It wouldn't be "my own personal platform at my house", but my use of it could be private to myself It only becomes other peoples' business at the point I share my fantasies, or what I have created from those fantasies, with others.
And the Enterprise is not simply a place of work - it's a place where over 1,000 people live, often for years at a time. That would mean that there would need to be shared access to the ship's online systems for non-work uses, and a reasonable expectation of privacy for that use.
To my mind, Barclay only oversteps the line at the pont at which he starts telling others about the use he's made of colleagues' likenesses, and it makes no essential ethical difference that he's describing activities in the holosuite or in his own head.
I actually find it more worrisome that Kira's image was replicated by Quark & "enjoyed" by Odo (whose reward was dating the real Kira.) Seven also dated a Chakotay hologram & was rewarded (?) with dating real Chakotay. Even Geordi got to marry Leah Brams according the series ending "All Goods Things" (only 1 possible future.) We know holograms can be sentient thanks to Voyager's Doctor, Moriarty, and potentially even Janeway's boyfriend (you know when she famously said "delete the wife" to date the town hottie? Barclay being the only one focused on seems to ignore he did change when called out on it & he didn't get "rewarded" by getting to date either Troi or Dr Crusher. Also Barclay already had a nickname he hated: Broccoli
Wayne Alexander is the Jeffrey Combs of Babylon 5
Immediately after Barclay has his meeting with HR:
Riker goes to the holodeck, "Computer, delete Riker Programs 1 through 1786".
"Oh hi Barc."
I see what you did there.
It made me laugh. I'm not too proud to admit this.
I’m six months late on this video, but I really appreciated the Orville reference of the “holographic simulator” approved by the legal team in the opening sketch.
Lol. Nice catch. I have no doubt I get in trouble for using it to simulate Alara doing such disgusting things with me, that she would never stop slapping me.
The little boy who was in quarantine in the episode "Brothers" said that silica gel beads are really tasty.
Steve Shives: Computer exit. COMPUTER EXIT!
Computer: I'm sorry Steve, I'm afraid I cannot do that.
The algorithm hasn't recommended your videos to me for an age! So glad it finally hit me up with this one XD
The holodeck scene is in the orville when Bortus has a porn addiction and downloads a holodeck program that has a virus. So the virus of course locks out the ship and Isaac is in the holodeck trying to physically stop the virus and there's all these naked Mauklins stroking and caressing him as he tries to work 😂😂😂
If I remember right the Dr. on voyager encouraged the captain to use the holodeck for romantic and sexual pleasure deeming it appropriate for her situation. So I am sure this is a common thing that happens. In fact i'd say it's very common considering many married officers are not on the same ship together and may use it to avoid cheating. Tuvok used it for the pon farr also. I think the reason reg fantasy was odd is because if you can make up a person of your dreams would they really be a coworker?
I think that's the point-Barclay's fantasies are self-therapy for his social anxiety, and interactions with those very people are his problem.
I’ve long thought they missed a trick by not using the holodeck for physical telepresence - you’re assigned on different ships, but once a week you get an hour in the holodeck to be intimate together. Obviously in Voyager’s situation it had to be a recreation, but when you’re in live communication range, it could be a totally lifelike version of the modern video call date.
@@kaitlyn__L That idea is explored in the "New Frontier" books, where a married couple are on separate ships in the same sector.
I love the way Futurama parodies the "Holo-shed" and how it malfunctions
I wonder why holodecks aren't monitored for mental health reasons. Like excessive holodeck use time or violent content.
Because it is the vision a better future, where people mind their own business as long as nobody other gets hurt and freedom and privacy are not just empty words. There is a ships counselor if you really need help.
I've heard the reason for the 'do not eat' on the packs of silica gel is because when they're manufacturing those, they don't know whether the end use will be for a pair of shoes or to go in a pack of beef jerky, and there's a risk that someone will think it's a seasoning meant to go on the beef jerky.
Barkley was actually treated for holodeck addiction. Maybe there is a redlight district with high quality holodecks where people get addicted?
Just a thought as to why it's possible on crafts vs DS9:
Crafts like the Voyager and Enterprise are far more likely to encounter various combat scenarios, so perhaps making copies of crew members is unrestricted for the sake of practicing combat scenarios and drills and such.
Your acting skills are definitely getting better Steve :)
YES, finally an episode on Space HR!
about the silica gel…
I’m an electrician, and this one time about ten years ago, I was installing a ceiling fan at this lady’s house. she had a toddler, and when I was on my ladder, not looking at my little pile of tools and fan parts, the kid reached in and grabbed a packet of gel pellets and started eating them. I guess it must have looked like candy to her. The lady had to call the paramedics to come make sure the kid didn’t die from poisoning.
Now, any time I’m opening a new fan package or anything else, I always get those gel packets and stuff them in a garbage bag first.
Holo- character Vic Fontaine found major Kira's likeness apparently saved from our man Bashir(he had a hard time getting rid of her Russian accent) to fool Odo Into thinking it was her to help him loosen up,to date and show his true feelings for her. Then having the real Kira show up for the date.it was an entertaining and interesting,thought provoking episode. And who can forget Nog using Vics holo program to deal with his pstd,heart breaking and inspiring.
11:30
I figured the reason for why Quark couldn't just make a holo program of sexy Kira was because she didn't ever use the holosuites. She didn't care for them, so he couldn't just generate an image. That's why he tried to lure her in a suite so the computer could process her, then tried to snap a holo photo of her from across the Prominade and then, finally, resorted to stealing classified files.
In the Next Gen episode with Barclay, we see a lot of his fantasies involve people who are holodeck regulars. We've seen everybody he generated use the holodeck regularly for recreation or training simulations. It's sorta shown to be required use for command officers based on Diana having to do that unwinnable scenario to be an official person in rotation to command the ship. Their holodeck computer has plenty of data stored to just generate an image of Riker or Diana on command.
Another holodeck offender, Geordi, keeps conjuring up pretty scientists that he can flirt and proceed to fall in love with in time to make things awkward for the real woman to show up. From the sound of things, it seems he does this through cobbling together reports and whatever files he can find on the person. Now, of course, the simulation is never anything like the real person. It's a fantasy babe for him to flirt about science and ship design to like a weirdo.
What I'm getting at here is that the holodecks can't necessarily conjure ANYONE. It needs to have something to work off of, whether that be information collected through previous holodeck visits or someone manually programming it.
It a good thing that star fleets ships are self cleaning especially when you know what the vast majority of adults would use it for lol
Some thoughts: IRL, we have pretty good tech for this kind of thing already. Not in 3D, but digital images that pretty convincingly resemble real people can be made. The legal precedents in the Federation are plausibly centuries old, with the Holodeck technology feeling somewhat violating to some because it's solid and 3D. Whether a Federation made Holodeck would let you do naughty things with Holodeck replicas is also not settled: Quark is a Ferengi and presumably using Ferengi made or modified holosuites, which may have been built to different standards. (Discounting Lower Decks, which... well, as fun as I find it, I don't personally consider canon). Finally, the Enterprise crew being unflappable makes sense: the Enterprise is a prestige posting often intentionally put in difficult situations. Even for Starfleet they're presumably elite.
What a treat! I found Steve’s channel because of his political satire, and then discovered this Star Trek content. Talk about a happy bonus!
Lost a musical hero today. Still in mourning. But this made smile. Thanks. Peace.
Being able to use the likeness of crewmen would be important in the event of trying to create simulations of inventions, new ideas, planning possible outcomes, and for training. It can be used if for example you invented a new shuttle and need to know if it can carry certain crewmen safely, figure out if it can withstand certain situations, and it can be used to train these crewmen while the shuttle is being made.
I don't recall the name of the episode (and I'm too lazy to go find it), but there was an episode of Voyager where Tuvok was going through ponn farr and was having difficulty managing his emotions. Paris made him a copy of his wife on the holodeck. When Tuvok objected Paris said that since it was the holodeck it doesn't count. Granted Paris isn't Trek's moral paragon, but it does show what I assume is a common attitude to using the holodeck for that purpose.