@@defconcreativeIf it is engineered properly, 10mm ammo and firearms works fine for all sorts of applications. What's great is, we can disagree on what is "best," but you can't say 10mm is terrible.
I was expecting to hear something about lack of 10mm reliability, So your very first reason for not liking 10mm is because of other people....As soon as i heard that I knew every other reason would be non sense
This guys opinions are based on total nonsense. I don’t care that you’re annoyed by 10 mm questions. I also don’t care if you don’t like where it came from. The 10 mm is badass and is very effective. Oh and it can kill bears
Dinner, IF they're rebuilt correctly. The G20s in particular are blowing up all over the place. The gen 4s need a full case support KKM bbl & a 22-24 lb recoil springs to be reliable & the gen 5s DO have the proper full case support rifled bbls but their springs still suck. Maybe by gen 8-9 Klunk will finally get it right. XDMs never fail & eat the hot bear loads w ease.
I have the full size xdm and full size glock 20 gen 5 in 10mm. Have roughly 3000 rounds through each running multiple underwood ammo loads 0 failures so far. Also got the FN 510 prolly only 500 rounds through it but again no failures. There are definitely reliable options.
@@tristantimothy1004 I got the Glock 20 Gen 4 and I shoot the heavy rounds for years now I never had a problem the Glock was made for that round him 1911 was made for the 45 which is another great cartridge
@@AlexM-ej4ph, Ya, I've been hearing that a lot about the Glocks. Also seen 3 blow out ( gen 4s) w the stock bbls & FTFs w/o the 22-24 lb recoil springs replacements. My gen 5 has had nothing but problems from day one. Double feeds, FTFs. All 3 mags are jammomatics w the hot loads. Runs regular low powered crap just fine but hates the full power loads. Here in Alaska as a bear gun that is NOT acceptable & like all Glock triggers even the new Gen 5 " improved" trigger sucks. Never had a problem with the XDMEs ( have 5) except 1 hang up on the 2nd shot of a new one using S&B. Have run hundreds of hot loads through the XDMs and they run no matter what I feed em. On the G20 gen 5 that shitty sheet metal end cap on the factory spring is bending & it refuses to stay down in its bottom notch on the bbl. The new, full case support, rifled bbls in the gen 5 are impressive. But I still can't trust a gun w so many jamming problems. Bears ain't gonna wait while I have to clear a jam. Even tried a brand new Gen 4 mag. Same old jamming crap. My unit just sucks. If it were the 1st Glock I ever bought it would be the LAST one. Springfield got it right initially. Glocks got some catching up to do. Up here, new KKM bbl & recoil springs is S.O.P. in the gen 4s. Blown out cases & cracked slides from the hot ammo just doesn't cut it. HAVE seen where both the Glocks & the XDMEs have problems with the 230 grain WFNHCs . But the ballistics w the 200 grain is superior not only in speed but penetration as well.
Imma let you finish, but you're wrong, and there's proof. You stated that the 10mm doesn't perform well in YOUR PREFFERED CARRY GUN, aka the 1911. And because it doesn't reliably function, it's trash. First off, it's the furthest shooting and most powerful handgun caliber below the magnums n Deagles when loaded to correct specs. Second, factually you're wrong. Glock, Sig, Springfield, and now FN all have reliable 10mm handguns. The fact that the 1911 doesn't do it is a YOU problem. YOU work for the premier 1911 maker on the planet, fucking build one. The platform YOU BUILD ON A DAILY BADIS can't cycle it reliabley sounds like a SKILL ISSUE to me. So clearly, you should GIT GUD like everyone else has.
Brand new cleaned and oiled stock Glock 20SF Gen 3 ( I'm in gay CA), lots of issues over the weekend trying my brand new toy out. Hoping it just needs to break in.
@gunpolygamist Was my 1st time ever shooting a Glock, might need to work on my grip. The wife had more issues than I did, so possibly limp wrist. I used Winchester Silvertip JHP, Fiocchi Dynamic Defense JHP, Sellier and Bellot FMJ, and HSM 200 gr FMJ. The HSM was the only one that didn't give me any issues. I'll keep trying out other ammo to see what it likes to eat and working on my grip. Probably be best to swap the plastic guide rod for something better for a start.
@@hopatrol9475, It's Glocks flexible frame causing the " limp wrist" problems. Was never designed for 10mm power. You might want to go to a full case support KKM bbl & a 22-24 lb recoil springs w S.S. guide rod too so it doesn't blow up on you. The G20s in particular are blowing out at the retractor spring cutout w the stock bbls w the really hot full power loads. Here in Alaska the 10s are taking over for up close bear defense because they WORK. The rebuild is SOP w the gen 4s. The new Gen 5s HATE UNDERWOOD & Buffalo Bore bear thumpers. RIGHT BBLS but still the same weak recoil springs causing many to have FTFs. Sadly, most 10mm factory ammo is weak but works fine. Full power loads however, not so great until rebuilt properly.
That reminds me of the battle between Winston Churchill & the Queen. She called him a drunk & he replied, " Tomorrow I will be sober but you will still be ugly." They didn't like each other much. 😁
Yep....I've seen so many tactical wanna-bes, saying the 10mm only exists because of M-D shootout. BS....the 10mm was out three years before the shootout happened. So let's see....the fbi came to the rifle and body armor party with duty sized handguns....what could possibly go wrong with that strategy?
Good thing it's only his opinion, because a lot of the statements he made were just pure bullshit. I have almost 3,000 rounds through my 10 mm and it's nowhere near worn out and it doesn't beat itself up. Maybe the older gun designs beat themselves up, but my M&P does quite fine.
3000 rounds is not much for a pistol. I shoot IPSC and can use 300-400 rounds in just one match. And i expect my 9mm guns to last tens of thousands of rounds before anything brakes.
I spend lots of time in the outdoors hiking, camping, stream fishing. I EDC a Glock 20. Even when not in the outdoors I carry it. I shoot it well. You can never have enough gun. I don't hunt with it. I hunt with a rifle or shotgun. I'm retired LEO but the G20 is purely for defense, against all forms of predators. Where I live there are cougars, bears, moose, elk, and even a dogman or bigfoot or two. Some are considered the ultimate apex predators and are far superior to mankind. Never fear, 10mm is very versatile and can be had in any combo you need for defensive purposes-from 2 legged to 4 legged. It has enough capacity with quick reloads, something a revolver doesn't. Since this is America, we can all rejoice in the fact we can carry whatever we want. And for those who carry 10mm for the ego, I say more power to them. Just watch your backstop. My G20 has several thousands of rounds through it...I change out recoil springs every 1500-2000 rounds along with any other parts that look like they might need it. I use a KKM barrel... I also own a 2011 RIA like yourself and a Tanfoglio Limited Custom in 10mm. I prefer the G20 for EDC because I think it's stronger. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. IF I was on the offense I'd carry the aforemention long arms. G20 is very portable for defense -it works for me in that role.
it's wildly known that factory set 10mm is largely under powered with the exception of very specific brands. So unless you run genuine full powered 10mm. You're essentially going around with a gun that is is the same size as other full size handguns while having less capacity and slightly better performance than 40 S&W with factory set ammo. So at the end of the day you have a handgun that has more cons than pros. If we're talking animal defense there's a reason people in Alaska will always run big bore revolvers over a 10mm if given the option; they are literal hand cannons that surpass 10mm in every single way, and if we're talking defense against people shot placement and number of potential shots than can be fired matter infinitely more than whatever gain 10mm can give you. So lets not kid ourselves here, you have a handgun that excels in nothing is worse off in all other categories.
@@yohannjardiniano6726 Thanks for the reply. YES! There are many watered down 10mm cartridges out there. I only carry full power loads and do the research before carrying. I'm fond of Underwood Ammo and use it exclusively. There are several good Underwood full power Underwood cartridges and I have a stock of several different flavors depending on what I'm doing. You're right, might as well carry 40 S&W if you're not taking advantage of the proper ammo for 10mm. I use Sellier Belot, Winchester White box, CCI etc for range practice
Nice, I carry a g29 with a threaded kkm barrel that makes it the length of a g20. I also love my fn510 but it prints more. Kinda hard to go back to carrying a 9mm once you get used to 10.
You know, a lot of people make the same argument about 1911 guys. They will tell you they only shoot 1911 and 45 is the only caliber that can stop a threat etc.... so it kinda funny you led with that being your reason you don't like 10mm lmao. Pot calling the kettle black
Yep, but 45 is arguably the best round for self defense, and the 1911 was designed around this round so…not really a great comparison. 45 was born out of a necessity for a larger, more powerful cartridge due to the 38 long not being up to par. By contrast, 10mm, and by extension, 40, was born out of the politics of a fucked up situation, not because it was actually necessary, or even desirable. I believe the fbi even wanted to switch to the 45 after the event, but couldn’t ask the government for money to buy 45 caliber pistols after the army just got done negotiating a contract for 9mm berettas.
My SIG XTEN has north of 10k Norma spec rds. through it. Only part changed is the recoil spring assembly between 4K-5k rds. per SIG’s guidance. No issues to date. My XTEN Comp has nearly 3k rds. without issue. I have several 10mm pistols, and the aforementioned manages recoil the best. I shoot 300-800 rds per range session. My SA TRP 10mm and S&W M&P 2.0 Compact recoil the “worst,” but not bad to shoot. The 10mm Auto cartridge is the most versatile pistol cartridge made! The 9mm is simply anemic, and while it will kill, it’s not the cartridge I trust my life to, and I am a former LEO & criminal investigator. Oh, the .40 is an excellent fight stopper, especially the Winchester 180 gr. Ranger-T.
10mm, as I have seen is not a well suited round for the 1911 platform. It makes sense why someone associated with a 1911 company would say this. There are also not as many options for 10mm handguns overall. But the Glock 20 and 29 are proven reliable designs and have been so for decades. The cartridge was not developed for bear defense, it was developed for personal defense and judging from the ballistics and data we have on it, it is well suited for that purpose. Want it for bear defense? Get it. Want it for personal defense? Also get it. Just don't get it in a 1911 platform.
All facts....also, consider even if money isn't an issue, you can't escape the grinding wheel of time. I've shot a LOT of 10mm, 44 mag, 357mag etc from several platforms over the decades and despite being a 6'4" dude and staying fit, I can feel it. I just can't shoot them the way I used to and I feel beat up the day after if I try.
10mm penetrants more than a 9mm and has more velocity over a 45 ACP. It takes a minimum of 900-1000 fps to get most hollow points to mushroom. 9mm has the velocity but the 10mm has the punch. 45 ACP has around 700 fps.
What "punch" are you talking about? Both 9mm and 10mm makes about the same size hole. And for it to be effective that hole has to go trough something vital. For a bipedal uraban target the 9mm has enough penetration so that doesn't make much difference either.
I've carried and trust my life with my G20 for 31 years, sadly majority of commecial 10mm loads are so watered down. I highly recommend Buffalo Bore, Grizzly 80 JHPs or the PMC 170 JHP. Buffalo Bore and Grizzly perform at 1350 fps and deliver 728 ftlbs. PMCs 170 JHP is 1200 fps and 550 ftlbs. Recoil is very managable and have fired several thousand out of my G20 with no excessive wear and tear. The 1911 was designed for 45 acp and no suprise to me it would wear out in 10mm. The original 10 mm load is a awesome handgun round but was watered down to 40 S&W.
You wont find many 10mm handguns with a lot of rounds shot through them because the ammo is too damn expensive. But my Glock 20 has about 5,000 through it with minimal wear with full power loads being the majority.
i have an FN 510 and a new Colt delta elite. Both are amazing pistols. 300 to 400 rounds through both, and there is nothing wrong internally with them. This is the land of the free, and we can have opinions, i just disagree with yours. also, you're drinking an ipa while wearing a flannel... not to be stereotypical but if the shoe fits.....
My takeaway is current Cabot gun manufacturing can't handle 10mm and they don't know how to make a pistol that can support sustained use of high pressure rounds so they are bitter. Other than that, I'd be happy if 9mm and 40S&W went away and 10mm was considered the mainstream, lightweight general purpose caliber most commonly found. Kind of level up the entire pistol culture until someone invents something better. May put Cabot out of business due to their lack of ability to make a 10mm pistol for long term use but there are plenty of other manufacturers out there ready to do the work. I'm not even a 10mm guy but I like evolution.
Great video I understand your complaints and issues with the cartridge. I like 10mm for a backup gun for wild hogs and black bears 🐻 when I go bow hunting. I have a bunch of handguns .357mag is my favorite round for pistol and 9mm is my go to carry cartridge. There is a place for 10mm if you want to run it in your rotation. I load Underwood ammo in my hunting 10mm Glocks and Kimber.
Love 10mm myself but agree with your assessment. I. Like it because it’s a good teacher. It magnifies shortcomings a makes for a better shooter. Shoot different guns in different calibers then shoot your favorite and you’ll shoot your favorite better. Going back and forth between Harley Davidson and BMW motorcycles made me a better police motorcycle operator. 10mm great training aid and skill builder.
Maybe you should watch a 10mm history video yourself. 10mm was here long before the FBI, he'll, it was on Miami vice. Glock had a foothold already. Their 10mm models are very low volume sellers. Tell the truth. You work on a 120 year old design. Sorry that your baby was not strong enuf for a modern high-pressure cartridge. Your problems ARE 1911 problems. What you don't like is either you are 9mm (like most everyone) or you are 10mm. Sadly, everything between is really fading.
It's not that the 1911 is too weak. The problem is that they are under sprung to function with the low power practice ammo. When sprung for Full power 10mm it won't function with the low power practice ammo. The simple solution involves having a recoil spring assortment tailored to the different ammo.
I disagree with you on the 40SW. I have a collection of 40SWs and I love them. You mentioned chamber pressures; I reload the 40 and many other handgun calibers up to a 44 Mag. Chamber pressures of 40SW are comparable to that of a 9mm. The worst gun for it was the discontinued Walther PPS. The SigSauer P229, Glock 27 G3 and PX4 Storm handles the 40SW quite well. I reload and found that using a lighter bullet will soften recoil. For EDC my preferred is Barnes 140g HP TAC-XP. Weight weight weight. Stay away from the 165g an 180g bullets for EDC.
I understand all the reasons you state. For me, I'm a big fan of 10mm because I'm also a big fan of the .357 magnum. I just prefer semi-autos for CCW over revolovers and my G29 with the right defense loads gives me .357 performance in a semi-auto package. That for me is the biggest draw of the 10mm. Also, I live in Los Angeles and oftentimes have to go into areas infested with the walking dead i.e. the Skid Row area where you will find all of the zombies that are hopped up on meth, crank, trank, drayno and God knows what else. Needless to say, I feel more confident in a one shot stop on an attacking zombie from my 10mm vs the other smaller caliber guns in my rotation. I agree with your assessment of development of 10mm for the FBI. As you mentioned, the agents were going up against heavily armed assailants while packing only pistols and shotguns. Mostly .38 special revolvers as I recall, and a couple of guys with a 9mm, one of whom shot one of the assailants with the bullet stopping within an inch of his heart, a Slivertip if memory serves. 9mm and the Silvertip were quickly scapegoated for the lack of proper preparation on the part of the FBI. Though I will also contend that the 9mm offerings from back then were quite inferior to what's available today. As for bears, the only ones I'm likely to ever encounter are the ones I run into in West Hollywood.
Sig 220 legion 10mm is a combination of the Most reliable and durable for pistol.❤ Cmmg 10mm banshee for carbine ❤ Totally disagree with most of his opinions 😂
The FBI wanted a more powerful one shot stop because they had a kill shot that hit by his heart with the 9mm and the man still lived 10 more minutes killing several more officers even being shot several times. The officers 357 revolver fell to the ground in the beginning of the fight and je couldn't get to it. Anyone will tell you the 40 has better one shot stop that a 9 all day long specialy in 165 grain. Pistols are for self defense and the best cartridge for all around hunting self defense scenarios thats not a revolver is the 10 mm so i would say it doesn't suck just people have different preferences
Yes 10 mm is harder on guns, but if Hipoint can make one out of zamak zinc cast metal that can shoot hot loads. This argument is invalid. The biggest issues with glock 10 mm was early chamber support, which has been improved. Also 10mm just isn’t as hot as people think. Sure top quality loads can push to the 700 ft lbs of energy area most commercial loads are in the 450-600 ft lbs range. Really this makes it like a semi auto 357 magnum. And no one complains about. 357. My personal opinion is 9 mm and 45 need to die. 10mm needs to replace 45 acp, more power more capacity in the same size platform. My opinion with a bit more load development 30 sc should take over 9mm. More speed more capacity. I think it’s time to bring loads into the 21st century. 9 and 45 are great but development and new technology is stagnant. The thing that bothers me is so many people develop compensators and recoil reducing technology for 9mm which I think is redundant. Why would t you make it for 10mm to make it more acceptable recoil for most people. That said I love 1911s but making them in 9mm is dumb. Cz platform is much better for that in my mind
30 Super Carry is a joke. It cost more than the 9mm, not as much power, and you only get two more rounds. If two more rounds is going to make that much difference, you're in some place you never should have been...
@@raybell9091cost goes down if it is produced more. If more people supported it then cost would come into line. Still a new round. I said with 30sc if more load development helped push speed or bullet weight to provide a bit more energy. It doesn’t have to be 30 sc but round like it should replace 9 mm. Similar design where it’s faster than 9mm and holds more but isn’t super long like 5.7. 9mm is over a hundred years old I’m just saying that it’s time to replace it. Everyone is so infatuated with 9 mm because the fbi and military use it currently and yes it’s a decent round that has stood the test of time. But something needs to happen. And in my examples the 30sc is great for concealed carry personal protection, everything else should be 10mm like the military and police.
Nick's information on the FBI shootout and subsequent adoption of 10 mm is off. 1. I agree that the FBI agents were mostly under gunned at this horrible trajedy. But let's not forget that agent Morales finished the shooting with a 12 gauge that he pumped with one hand due to an arm wound. 2. The reason the FBI wanted more penetration was due to a 9mm 115 grain Winchester Silvertip that penetrated Platt's bicep prior to entering his body cavity and falling short of his heart. It was not due to a request for more power but for more penetration. 3. Main stream FBI agents never received the full power load. Same was tested by the Marksmanship Training Unit in an agent's personally owned Colt Delta Elite and was deemed too much for general agents to handle. Hence the development of the lower powered 10mm round which gave the FBI the penetration it wanted at the time. The agents never "limp wristed" full power loads due to never being issued them. 😮Most of us know and agree this all lead to the development of the .40 short and weak. I just wanted to clear a few misconceptions out there about the FBI and 10mm. Please carry on with the debate. 😅
As the owner of two Cabot 1911s, I couldn't care less about the price of the ammo. I'll call Rob next week to hear his opinion about the 10mm. Bears are not the only reason people want a 10mm pistol. I own a Glock 20 because I wanted a 10mm, not because I'll be hunting bears. I put 130 rounds through it yesterday. It is very accurate and no harder on my hand than the .45 ACP. Why do you give a rip if people purchase a Glock 20? There is no need to disparage whole groups of people because you can't see past a 45 ACP 1911. Grow up. I don't expect Cabot to make a 1911 in 10mm soon. Does that bother me? Absolutely not! You would not hunt bears with a 10mm pistol; it's a SHTF backup weapon. If you try bringing your rifle to point on a charging bear in less than two seconds, it won't happen. Do some research before you run your mouth. Regarding your 44-mag statement, you would be hard-pressed to get off even one shot in three seconds with an adrenaline dump, while I'll get off at least five 10 mm out of my Glock 20! I'm not going to bet my life on one 44-mag round! IMHO, I'd not be drinking a beer and admit to having had two "adult beverages" before you started your post.
I actually agree with 99% of what you say. But the 10mm is a very good round for a very niche need. I live 8 miles from the Yellowstone boundary, I have grizzlies that walk thru my neighborhood on a weekly basis, there are currently grizzly tracks in the snow 20 feet from my front door. And there are many accounts of hunters defending themselves successfully in the nearby back country with 10mm. To be fair, I normally have a Sig P365 on me with 147g Underwood “black cherry” rounds, that should be fine in a pinch. But I do have a Sig XTEN I carry when I go hiking. And a Benelli M4 loaded with bear slugs in case Yogi tries to break into my cabin.
Respectfully, I know something about firearms as well, having been a certified instructor of police and civilians in the venue of personal protection. I am a tactical firearms instructor and defensive tactics instructor, which is the basis for qualifying me to make the following observations. I am familiar with people as well; I'm curious if this is just another example of clickbait or if you are serious. As a retired cop, among other things, I would never tell anybody that their personal choice of firearm was silly, worthless, or wrong. Besides, where do I have the right to say to you that what you select is wrong... maybe it is the only one you can afford. Liberals and Progressives are more inclined to dictate how we should spend our money or what we should buy! Again, just an observation. I don't have a "TH-cam" channel, and I can't say I want one. However, I digress. Making blanket statements can make some people believe you know what you are talking about, and others will see it as questionable on the light side but as foolish on the flipside; just saying. I shoot my firearms often; my 10mm is included in the frequently fired as well. Any gun fired or taken care of will always experience punishment just from being fired, let alone neglected. It is the "Second Law of Thermodynamics." The "entropy" law states that everything moves from a state of order to disorder. I don't care how often you change the oil in your car, and I highly recommend doing it frequently; that engine will get beaten down. Does that mean I shouldn't own one, or maybe buy one but don't drive it? What the hell kind of logic, or lack of it. Does that mean that a hot load will punish a particular platform more than one less hot, of course? However, should that mean that you shouldn't have one and shoot it, if for no other reason than your right as an American to do so? Shoot a twenty-two pistol or rifle long enough, and the bore will get worn. A firearm is a tool, I use it until it wears out, then I get another one. What do you have in your life that you can use forever? I will wait for your answer... I have a 10mm and a bunch of other calibers I own because I wanted one! I can't say I will be hunting in "Bear" country, but here is one example you so flippantly dismissed. I am a traditional bowhunter; I can't have a bow in one hand and a rifle in the other. For the majority of my time in the military and as a police officer, I carried a semi-auto on-duty undercover, as a detective, and off-duty. I carry one in the woods, not because I can't shoot a bow accurately, but because I want protection from two-legged and four-legged bad actors, and they can be found in the wilderness, too! I love my 10mm Kimber pistol; if it requires service, I will get it serviced, which is the same as the maintenance required for any other type of firearm shooting a cartridge. Intelligent information sharing is always welcomed; I have just taken this rare opportunity to express another side of the equation: Why so few people will be misled. I have discovered a superpower I often use: the ability to hear things I disagree with, minus the need or desire to get upset or take it personally. It didn't come easy, but my time as a cop was a great training ground for it! You see, after having people try to run over me, threaten my life, shoot at me, yes, many times, and fighting alone in the dark of night against "Ex-Cons" who looked me in the eye and said, "I ain't going back to jail." Stupid shit doesn't get my ire up anymore. Have a good day, and be blessed... Oh, and try not to insult people's intelligence; some folks just don't cotton to such things.
I'm sensing the 10mm might have bullied Nick some... Any cartridge can be criticized, even the world's greatest has negatives. What matters most is if the end user enjoys it and the needs are met.
If a bear charges you you would rather have a 10mm with hard cast ammo than all your arguments against it. I own several and practice regularly on moving targets . not a single one of my 10mm has reliability issues.
Yeah acting like there a no reliable 10mm options is just goofy at this point there are several. Xdm. Glock. FN. Rock island and Kimber 1911s..ect. I have 3000 plus rounds in my xdm and glock 10mm no failures so far with variety of ammo. But as far as a bear charging I wouldn't want a 10mm I would want my 500 magnum with underwood 350 grain extreme penetrators. Or better yet a rifle. 300 win mag perhaps
In the mid 80’a I bought ret new handgun. I didn’t just go buy the first thing I saw, I did a lot of research prior to my purchase. I came across a magazine article that discussed one shot stops, shootings in which the attacker stopped their assault on the would be victim. Evan Marshall and Massad Ayoob complied records on the the shooting that there was police files available. Now, at this time 10MM and .40 Smith and Wesson rounds weren’t on the market yet, but what I found was interesting. The statistics showed that 9 MM Parabellum averaged 85% on the one shot stops, and they were tied with 45 ACP taking every bullet into account. The best performing round at that time was the 357 magnum with a 125 grain bullet. That said, there is no magic bullet that will work 100% of the time in handguns. I say that because a believe a shotgun slug would pretty much put anyone down. Anyway I purchased a Taurus 669 revolver. It was a heavy barreled 357 magnum. After that purchase I kept reading everything I could find and two articles caught my attention. Both were gelatin tests on two different calibers. First was the 357. The second was the 40 smith and Wesson 180 grain bullet. When looking at the pictures provided in those articles their performance in gelatin was identical! So the weak 10MM thing is total bullshit. As for the 10MM, it’s higher velocity would increase the bullet’s stopping power, but it’s recoil prevents most people rom getting a quick second shot on target. Still, with today’s improved bullet design it would be a good performer against human targets. The biggest problem with it would be over penetration, which is why I never bought a pistol in the caliber. Now if I could have a toy, I’d love an old Thompson in 10MM with a rotary magazine.
I must not be as big of a 10mm fan as I thought. As I do not meet any of Nick's description. Though you for forgot about 3 things. 1) the reason 10mm ammo is not purchased is due to it being close to 40S&W pressures on big box shelves. Speak with Buffalo Bore or Fenix and it is their hottest sellers. 2) Because of number 1 10mm is loved by the reloading community. Not all of us subscribe to hunting loads above saami spec I for one do not. When I need something stronger than 180gr at 1300fps I jump to a larger caliber. 3) i know I will be run away from here but 10mm in a Revolver is very handy.
Hey I know you! You’re great! If you have a 10mm revolver, have you looked into converting it to 10mm magnum? As a handloader of wildcat cartridges, that could be an interesting direction for your channel, if you’re looking for ideas. Starline makes brass for it, and I’ve read that it can reach 41 and 44 mag levels of power.
@@michaelestrada2772 It can reach 41magnum for sure. I would only do that in like a Ruger Blackhawk. I have given it some thought as soon as I get close another project comes up LOL.
One problem with 10mm is the double standards that were set for it. If you sell a 10mm handgun, it better be able to handle the max. As soon as a Guntuber shows how 1000 rounds of Bison Backwater 225 grain hardcast will jam or break the gun, no one will want it. But it still has to function perfectly with Walmart low-powered ammo thanks to the FBI. 10mm already existed, BTW. The FBI just made super low-powered 10mm a "standard" thing that these guns should be able to function with. 45ACP is watered down from the start. Easier bar to meet for a handgun design. Then if you want to convert a gun to shoot 45 Super levels out of the same sized case, same OAL? That's on you to sort out the kinks.
Well that's great but 13+ bear attacks this year alone stopped that were killed with 10 mm handguns ( Grizzlies )... would say differently in a handgun platform. But you can have your own opinion on whatever you want. I don't own a 10mm , And the reason you carry a pistol with you, like i have in, the wilderness for many many years... Insted of a rifle or shotgun is because you can't shoot an animal with a long gun (When it's on top of you) or if you are fishing or doing something else so a handgun is easy to carry draw and aim ... That's a objective truth, factual reality, you can't always have a long gun on, you depends on what you are doing. You set your rifle down to clear your deer and get attacked and your pistol is always on your body that's why.
Clever way to get engagement to feed the algorithm. 😛 I've been in love with the 10mm since it first came out and the first handgun I ever purchased was a Gen 2 Glock 20 back in 1991. While I've owned a number of other 10mm's over the years, that one is still what I carry the vast majority of the time and I'm up near 80,000 rounds through it, many of them nuclear handloads. Aside from regular replacement of the small parts and springs just for maintenance sake, the thing has just been stupid reliable and trouble free. Its pretty rough looking from all of the handling and holster wear, but it is without any doubt, my "one gun" if I had to get rid of all others. That said, having had several 1911 platform 10mm's and a couple of S&W's (1006, 1076), I will agree on them beating themselves up. If they're reliable, they're probably fine for the occasional shooter... but as you eluded to, if you're running several hundreds rounds a month through them, they're not super likely be around for very long.
As I sit here laughing my tail off, I agree with everything you said...as I stroke my Glock 10mm. Btw as a 1911 guy, it doesn't get any better then Cabot. Love to hear you on your 4th adult beverage my friend.
You should probably not drink before trying to have an intelligent fireside chat. 40S&W still outperforms 9mm EVERYDAY all day is #1.#2, 10mm is a hell of a cartridge that you dislike for no valid reason, other than, other people like it. 10mm is also versatile enough or self defense or big game. 10mm yes I agree takes more skill and technique than the average shooter has, but that is every shooter's choice. People who don't like 10mm are those that can't shoot it well. Next time you want to make an argument bring some proof of a "beat up gun" 9mm blows up as many guns as 10mm if that's your argument. Stupid video, Not that it matters, but I know to never waste another second of my life watching any of your videos. Cool.🤙✌
Van, Neither am I. 5'8", 130 lbs, 75 year old Alaska Bushman & I LOVE my 10mms. Best bear stopper handguns around & taking over Alaska like a tidal wave because they WORK. I don't even carry my 45/70 rifle anymore. Don't need it to stop a charging grizzly. Underwood's 200/ 220 gr Hardcasts & same for Buffalo bores asst. Bear thumpers. I prefer the XDM-Es. Either one. 3.8 but my favorite is the 4.5. They've never failed & unlike the Klunks they don't need rebuilding. This clown is so full of shyt it's leaking out of his mouth.
I'm definitely with you on point number one. If I was going to intentionally arm myself to protect myself against bears a semi-auto cartridge that is the ballistic equivalent of 357 Magnum would not even be in my mind.
@@defconcreativewanna prove your retardation? See how many times 10mm has been used successfully in bear and wild game defense and get back to me. Or keep deleting my comments like a pussy.
I dont see a lot in here to sour my love for 10mm. Yes, it is harder on guns and they need to be beefier to stand up. Pretty much everybody knows and accepts that. I still have a delta elite that I bought in 1987. It is very reliable with original norma clear up to buffalo bore but it is a low rounds gun. .357 and .44 mag are also rough on guns but you didnt say that they suck. .357 is the only caliber I have experienced to damage a gun. My Colt Python got sloppy loose after a steady diet of 125g JHP magnum rounds. In my recollection it was Jeff Cooper that brought the 10mm into existence before the disasterous FBI gunfight in 1986. The FBI simply adopted the 10mm because it was available and had more power than the 9mm. The 1986 fight had a terrible outcome not so much because the agents were completely outgunned. They actually hit the bad guys multiple times with their weapons but it failed to stop them. This allowed the bad guys to kill many more agents than they should have been able to. This is more of an indictment of the 9mm Winchester Silver Tip 115g which was found to not reliably penetrate to the vitals. Actually you fail to mention the major reasons NOT to carry 10mm. These being the increased recoil making follow-up shots more difficult and the possibility of over-penetration on human type targets. There is no free lunch in this universe. There are always trade offs we have to consciously weigh and decide upon. 10mm is basically a magnum cartridge for auto-loaders. There are compromises to carrying any caliber, The important thing is to be aware of them and act accordingly. One last suggestion. Dont drink multiple "adult beverages" right before you talk to a bunch of people.
Yes for self defense there will not be much difference in performance between a 9mm and a 10mm. Both will penetrate far enough and both will make about the same wound cavity with the same design of bullets. With pistol calibers you have to hit a vital organ directly no matter what caliber you use, and the wound cavity does not go much beyond the diameter of expanded bullet because it does not have enough speed for any meaningful hydrostatic effect. So with a 10mm you are left with more recoil and less magazine capacity for about the same terminal performance as a 9mm. And for bears you really want a minimum of a hot .44 mag or more power. And i don't really see the point in handgun hunting.
You make some decent points. I think that some of the newer pilymer frame designs help to take advantage of the flexibility of polyer though to mitigate some of the abuse parts take from 10mm. The other interesting thing is that the avereage 10mm buyer is most likley going to buy cheap range/practice ammo which if you arent paying close attention is more like 10mm lite and loaded more to .40sw specs (180 gr bullet about 1000 fps). I had a buddy let me shoot his 10mm, and i was expecting more recoil since it was in a sub-compact like frame. I shot a mag through it and was like it doesnt recoil much more than my Walther P99AS .40sw (compact size ish). Then i looked at the box of ammo and was like well that explains a lot. I tokd him if he really wanted full 10 mm power to look for some ammo with more than 1200 fps velocity.
My issue with the 10mm isn't the caliber really it is the loadings available by most ammo brands. You're getting a neutered 10mm that's barely stronger than the .40 S&W factory loads. Unless you load your own or buy ammo brands like Buffalo Bore you'd be better served by the .40S&W.
I would prefer a higher powered rifle over 10 mm for bear, but it is bow hunters that can’t carry a rifle that use 10mm. I remember the Bren 10, Delta, etc. had problems with metal fracturing with 10mm. Strangely enough, Glock’s polymer held up better. Glock 10mm is still the choice in many places for government game management (other than a rifle) handgun in many countries after all these years.
As a revolver guy, I’ve always struggled with regular semi auto pistol calibers. 10mm doesn’t offer anything over a good 45 Super/450 SMC, and we still have the availability of 45 ACP. I might play with the V2 buffer from 460 Rowland, because I like the extra firepower…but maybe in a cheaper gun. I don’t want to beat up my TRP. This is what makes semi autos so hard. Everything stated about timing, spring weights, and whatnot is true. So much easier to chase more ft lbs of energy in a revolver.
I disagree because With liberty civil defense 10mm 60 grains, from a 6.5” aftermarket barrel I achieved nearly 2700 fps. So I’m getting actual rifle ballistics from a Glock 😂
6.5in kkm barrel is what I've got in my G40, I've also got a few boxes of those civil defense rounds, just never got a chance to chrono them, now I know! 2700fps that's insane coming out of a handgun!
@@timblack131 I almost had to use it on someone couple months ago. Luckily I was able to escape the situation however another bystander was armed and shot and killed the guy. Anyway, the velocity fluctuates a lot, between 2550 and 2650 most of the time with some outliers below or above that. Average velocity around 2600.
The big problem I see with 10mm: If you actually read the box adn compare velocities, a not insignificant number of 10mm rounds are travelling at the same velocity as 40 S&W rounds. It's easy for me to spot because my carry gun is a 40 S&W and I fixate on slug weight and speed. I like the idea behind the 10mm. I have one pistol chambered in it. I would consider getting more more. But there's no value in buying another gun in 10mm when I'm going to have to either scrounge for appropriately loaded cartridges travelling at 1,200-1,300 FPS (or more), pay the 10mm premium for ammo that's no more powerful than 40 S&W, or just shoot 40 S&W through the pistol. In 2 of 3 of those scenarios, the best bet is to just go with 40 S&W instead.
I have to admit, I was pondering getting a 10 mill. However I haven’t pulled the trigger is for the reasons you mentioned. If I ever scratch that itch, It will be a Delta elite. Not that I would carry it, but because of potential collector status. I do carry a 1911 frequently in 9mm or Gods caliber. Thanks for your input.
My 10mm pistols are for hunting hogs, deer etc.. If I want something that has little recoil, noise etc. to plick with I use a 22, not a 9mm. If I want a pocket gun I grab my .380. 9mm is a great gun but it is a compromise. If I know I'm going to a gun fight I leave my 9mm at home and grab a rifle or shotgun. If I want something concealable and I know I'm going to a gun fight I grab my 45 or 10. 9mm is seldom a first choice and most of mine are micro compacts as I'm more likely to actually carry them, that is one of the very few advantages and I can usually match that with the more powerful 40 S&W. While you are entitled to your opinion I pretty much disagree with most of what you said. Call it a preference, not a factual account of why the 10mm sucks because that improper terms pretty much... sucks!
I think 10 mm could be a very good daily carry cartridge. I'm going to buy one on me to carry while I'm hunting out in the field. I want one with at least a 6-inch barrel so that's going to be a little more difficult. I am hunting in Nevada I'm not worried about bears. I just think it would be a decent all-around self-defense cartridge. In Nevada it is perfectly legal to hunt with a pistol. a scenario that has played out for me. I'm squatting next to a tree by myself with my rifle on the ground a few feet away, just out of reach, when a nice-looking book just wanders by about 30 yards down the hill. I had my handgun on. But I didn't feel comfortable taking that shot with a Glock 17. If I had had a 10 mL on me or even a 357 Magnum or 44 revolver I would have definitely taken that shot
I'm on vacation in the US right now, so I am a bit in rush. When I come back in France, I will watch the video. I was interested in a delta elite in 10 mm. Maybe you will change my mind.
It's a good cartridge in general, but I only own one in a revolver for a reason. It's a bit much for a semi auto handgun. I hear lots of bear defense stories where 10mm is involved that start with "and he was able to clear the malfunction and put more rounds into the animal". Now with 10mm ammo for 2 legged defense - it's no surprise that most 10mm hollow point defensive ammo is basically a .40 S&W in a long case, has to be to run reliably.
If 10mm sucks, why would you spend so much to customize yours? The FBI was upset because the main bad guy was shot in the arm and into the chest with a standard 9mm silvertip and it stopped an inch from his heart, thus the penetration issue. FBI just adopted it but had nothing to do with the development. The brass did not fly that far. Mag-na-port!!!
You make some valid points but in the end 10mm is pretty awesome. I think it lends it's self more to polymer frame handguns though due to the battering issues in all metal guns.
There were quite a few bears killed by 10mm pistols this year in Alaska. I carry a 9mm most of the time unless I am in the mountains or something, then I carry a glock 20 because it has been proven when it comes to defense from large animals, the capacity is is better than a revolver, and it is much easier to shoot than a 44mag. Now the glock 20 is usually my backup gun in the woods, I prefer to have a semi-auto 308 or a 4570, but if I can't always have a rifle.
Dont shoot 10mm, its not for you. With the money you save you can buy a higher quality beer, and review that.
If I knew a 10mm would make me a pilot, I would have gotten one a long time ago.
A lot of people will look at 10mm and see that north of 700 Foot Pounds of energy as something they just gotta have.
If someone was pointing a 10mm at me, I definitely would not tell him his gun sucks amd to choose something else to pop me with
Despite your loathing of the 10mm, it is still a mighty fine cartridge.
Until you put it in a gun and actually use it…
@@defconcreativeIf it is engineered properly, 10mm ammo and firearms works fine for all sorts of applications.
What's great is, we can disagree on what is "best," but you can't say 10mm is terrible.
I’m glad you get my sense of humor and sarcasm…. Some people miss it
@@defconcreativejust don't use weak 1911 platforms
@@tbjtbj4786 You shut your whore mouth. Now repent and pray for the forgiveness of our Lord and Savior, John Moses Browning.
I was expecting to hear something about lack of 10mm reliability, So your very first reason for not liking 10mm is because of other people....As soon as i heard that I knew every other reason would be non sense
This video was worse than Kamala Harris word salad.
"My gun can't handle 10mm, so I don't like it"
It's very common to hate the 10 mm when you have hands like your wife.😂. Just a joke here.
The best jokes are rooted in truth.
OMG, my team can’t figure out to how to make a 10mm run, so let’s make fun of the FBI?!!!! Come on bro.
Well let's make fun of the FBI for not being able to handle the round and weakening it to 40s&w. AND this dumb ass.
This guys opinions are based on total nonsense. I don’t care that you’re annoyed by 10 mm questions. I also don’t care if you don’t like where it came from. The 10 mm is badass and is very effective. Oh and it can kill bears
Does well in Glock's
Dinner, IF they're rebuilt correctly. The G20s in particular are blowing up all over the place. The gen 4s need a full case support KKM bbl & a 22-24 lb recoil springs to be reliable & the gen 5s DO have the proper full case support rifled bbls but their springs still suck. Maybe by gen 8-9 Klunk will finally get it right. XDMs never fail & eat the hot bear loads w ease.
I have a Glock 20 Gen 4 I shoot the heavy rounds through it I never had a problem best 10 mm ever made is the Glock 20 Gen 4 @@tristantimothy1004
I have the full size xdm and full size glock 20 gen 5 in 10mm. Have roughly 3000 rounds through each running multiple underwood ammo loads 0 failures so far. Also got the FN 510 prolly only 500 rounds through it but again no failures. There are definitely reliable options.
@@tristantimothy1004 I got the Glock 20 Gen 4 and I shoot the heavy rounds for years now I never had a problem the Glock was made for that round him 1911 was made for the 45 which is another great cartridge
@@AlexM-ej4ph, Ya, I've been hearing that a lot about the Glocks. Also seen 3 blow out ( gen 4s) w the stock bbls & FTFs w/o the 22-24 lb recoil springs replacements. My gen 5 has had nothing but problems from day one. Double feeds, FTFs. All 3 mags are jammomatics w the hot loads. Runs regular low powered crap just fine but hates the full power loads. Here in Alaska as a bear gun that is NOT acceptable & like all Glock triggers even the new Gen 5 " improved" trigger sucks. Never had a problem with the XDMEs ( have 5) except 1 hang up on the 2nd shot of a new one using S&B. Have run hundreds of hot loads through the XDMs and they run no matter what I feed em. On the G20 gen 5 that shitty sheet metal end cap on the factory spring is bending & it refuses to stay down in its bottom notch on the bbl. The new, full case support, rifled bbls in the gen 5 are impressive. But I still can't trust a gun w so many jamming problems. Bears ain't gonna wait while I have to clear a jam. Even tried a brand new Gen 4 mag. Same old jamming crap. My unit just sucks. If it were the 1st Glock I ever bought it would be the LAST one. Springfield got it right initially. Glocks got some catching up to do. Up here, new KKM bbl & recoil springs is S.O.P. in the gen 4s. Blown out cases & cracked slides from the hot ammo just doesn't cut it. HAVE seen where both the Glocks & the XDMEs have problems with the 230 grain WFNHCs . But the ballistics w the 200 grain is superior not only in speed but penetration as well.
Imma let you finish, but you're wrong, and there's proof. You stated that the 10mm doesn't perform well in YOUR PREFFERED CARRY GUN, aka the 1911. And because it doesn't reliably function, it's trash. First off, it's the furthest shooting and most powerful handgun caliber below the magnums n Deagles when loaded to correct specs. Second, factually you're wrong. Glock, Sig, Springfield, and now FN all have reliable 10mm handguns. The fact that the 1911 doesn't do it is a YOU problem. YOU work for the premier 1911 maker on the planet, fucking build one. The platform YOU BUILD ON A DAILY BADIS can't cycle it reliabley sounds like a SKILL ISSUE to me. So clearly, you should GIT GUD like everyone else has.
The problem is manufacturers making nerf 10mm
10MM IS SUPERIOR HANDS DOWN NO DEBATE ESPECIALLY IN GLOCK 20 10MM
Brand new cleaned and oiled stock Glock 20SF Gen 3 ( I'm in gay CA), lots of issues over the weekend trying my brand new toy out. Hoping it just needs to break in.
@hopatrol9475 MY EXPERIENCE WHEN I FIRST GOT MINE WAS LIMP WRISTING ONCE I FIXED THAT IT WAS SMOOTH SAILING
@gunpolygamist Was my 1st time ever shooting a Glock, might need to work on my grip. The wife had more issues than I did, so possibly limp wrist. I used Winchester Silvertip JHP, Fiocchi Dynamic Defense JHP, Sellier and Bellot FMJ, and HSM 200 gr FMJ. The HSM was the only one that didn't give me any issues. I'll keep trying out other ammo to see what it likes to eat and working on my grip. Probably be best to swap the plastic guide rod for something better for a start.
@hopatrol9475 10MM IS A VERY SPICY ROUND TRY AMERICAN EAGLE AMMO IT'S PRETTY TAME SEE HOW THAT WORKS AND THEN GO UP TO THE HOTTER STUFF
@@hopatrol9475, It's Glocks flexible frame causing the " limp wrist" problems. Was never designed for 10mm power. You might want to go to a full case support KKM bbl & a 22-24 lb recoil springs w S.S. guide rod too so it doesn't blow up on you. The G20s in particular are blowing out at the retractor spring cutout w the stock bbls w the really hot full power loads. Here in Alaska the 10s are taking over for up close bear defense because they WORK. The rebuild is SOP w the gen 4s. The new Gen 5s HATE UNDERWOOD & Buffalo Bore bear thumpers. RIGHT BBLS but still the same weak recoil springs causing many to have FTFs. Sadly, most 10mm factory ammo is weak but works fine. Full power loads however, not so great until rebuilt properly.
You'll eventually sober up, but you won't smarten up.
This guy @Defconcreative is a total knucklehead - how and why I clicked here still bewilders me. Moving on, clicking right past ya!
That reminds me of the battle between Winston Churchill & the Queen. She called him a drunk & he replied, " Tomorrow I will be sober but you will still be ugly." They didn't like each other much. 😁
First bullshit. The Miami Dade shootout happened in 1986. The 10 mm was created in 1983 so you’re wrong.
Correct
Yep....I've seen so many tactical wanna-bes, saying the 10mm only exists because of M-D shootout. BS....the 10mm was out three years before the shootout happened. So let's see....the fbi came to the rifle and body armor party with duty sized handguns....what could possibly go wrong with that strategy?
I hope 10mm stays under the Radar... it will keep the prices down for ammo and accessories- for those of us who like it.
All I hear is 10mm beats up whimpy 1911😅
I own a S&W 610 4", built on the N frame, it can handle any load. Now what?
Good thing it's only his opinion, because a lot of the statements he made were just pure bullshit. I have almost 3,000 rounds through my 10 mm and it's nowhere near worn out and it doesn't beat itself up. Maybe the older gun designs beat themselves up, but my M&P does quite fine.
3000 rounds is not much for a pistol. I shoot IPSC and can use 300-400 rounds in just one match. And i expect my 9mm guns to last tens of thousands of rounds before anything brakes.
When they say bears, do they mean hungry quadripeds or their Grindr dates?
It’s not actually clear…. So probably both?!
😂😂😂
Yes.
As a Grindr bear myself I found this question hilarious 😂
Why can’t it be both?
I spend lots of time in the outdoors hiking, camping, stream fishing. I EDC a Glock 20. Even when not in the outdoors I carry it. I shoot it well. You can never have enough gun. I don't hunt with it. I hunt with a rifle or shotgun. I'm retired LEO but the G20 is purely for defense, against all forms of predators. Where I live there are cougars, bears, moose, elk, and even a dogman or bigfoot or two. Some are considered the ultimate apex predators and are far superior to mankind. Never fear, 10mm is very versatile and can be had in any combo you need for defensive purposes-from 2 legged to 4 legged. It has enough capacity with quick reloads, something a revolver doesn't. Since this is America, we can all rejoice in the fact we can carry whatever we want. And for those who carry 10mm for the ego, I say more power to them. Just watch your backstop. My G20 has several thousands of rounds through it...I change out recoil springs every 1500-2000 rounds along with any other parts that look like they might need it. I use a KKM barrel... I also own a 2011 RIA like yourself and a Tanfoglio Limited Custom in 10mm. I prefer the G20 for EDC because I think it's stronger. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. IF I was on the offense I'd carry the aforemention long arms. G20 is very portable for defense -it works for me in that role.
it's wildly known that factory set 10mm is largely under powered with the exception of very specific brands. So unless you run genuine full powered 10mm. You're essentially going around with a gun that is is the same size as other full size handguns while having less capacity and slightly better performance than 40 S&W with factory set ammo. So at the end of the day you have a handgun that has more cons than pros. If we're talking animal defense there's a reason people in Alaska will always run big bore revolvers over a 10mm if given the option; they are literal hand cannons that surpass 10mm in every single way, and if we're talking defense against people shot placement and number of potential shots than can be fired matter infinitely more than whatever gain 10mm can give you. So lets not kid ourselves here, you have a handgun that excels in nothing is worse off in all other categories.
@@yohannjardiniano6726 Thanks for the reply. YES! There are many watered down 10mm cartridges out there. I only carry full power loads and do the research before carrying. I'm fond of Underwood Ammo and use it exclusively. There are several good Underwood full power Underwood cartridges and I have a stock of several different flavors depending on what I'm doing. You're right, might as well carry 40 S&W if you're not taking advantage of the proper ammo for 10mm. I use Sellier Belot, Winchester White box, CCI etc for range practice
Nice, I carry a g29 with a threaded kkm barrel that makes it the length of a g20. I also love my fn510 but it prints more. Kinda hard to go back to carrying a 9mm once you get used to 10.
You know, a lot of people make the same argument about 1911 guys. They will tell you they only shoot 1911 and 45 is the only caliber that can stop a threat etc.... so it kinda funny you led with that being your reason you don't like 10mm lmao. Pot calling the kettle black
Well…the 1911 is the champ so we ain’t lying
@@defconcreative No bias ;)
Oh quite the contrary…. I am the MOST biased person alive.
Yep, but 45 is arguably the best round for self defense, and the 1911 was designed around this round so…not really a great comparison.
45 was born out of a necessity for a larger, more powerful cartridge due to the 38 long not being up to par. By contrast, 10mm, and by extension, 40, was born out of the politics of a fucked up situation, not because it was actually necessary, or even desirable. I believe the fbi even wanted to switch to the 45 after the event, but couldn’t ask the government for money to buy 45 caliber pistols after the army just got done negotiating a contract for 9mm berettas.
@@austinmurphy6359 If you swapped two letters in your username it would start with autism. Just sayin'...
My SIG XTEN has north of 10k Norma spec rds. through it. Only part changed is the recoil spring assembly between 4K-5k rds. per SIG’s guidance. No issues to date.
My XTEN Comp has nearly 3k rds. without issue.
I have several 10mm pistols, and the aforementioned manages recoil the best. I shoot 300-800 rds per range session.
My SA TRP 10mm and S&W M&P 2.0 Compact recoil the “worst,” but not bad to shoot.
The 10mm Auto cartridge is the most versatile pistol cartridge made! The 9mm is simply anemic, and while it will kill, it’s not the cartridge I trust my life to, and I am a former LEO & criminal investigator. Oh, the .40 is an excellent fight stopper, especially the Winchester 180 gr. Ranger-T.
10mm, as I have seen is not a well suited round for the 1911 platform. It makes sense why someone associated with a 1911 company would say this. There are also not as many options for 10mm handguns overall. But the Glock 20 and 29 are proven reliable designs and have been so for decades. The cartridge was not developed for bear defense, it was developed for personal defense and judging from the ballistics and data we have on it, it is well suited for that purpose. Want it for bear defense? Get it. Want it for personal defense? Also get it. Just don't get it in a 1911 platform.
I started packing a 9 MM for bear. I have a nice chunky Blackhawk in .44 Mag but it stays in storage. I'm thinking of upgrading to 10 mm.
I bought a crappy gun and I’m blaming the caliber because I’m stuck up
Naw, he's just drunk & pissed that Glock & Springfield's are kicking his guns butt.
All facts....also, consider even if money isn't an issue, you can't escape the grinding wheel of time. I've shot a LOT of 10mm, 44 mag, 357mag etc from several platforms over the decades and despite being a 6'4" dude and staying fit, I can feel it. I just can't shoot them the way I used to and I feel beat up the day after if I try.
10mm penetrants more than a 9mm and has more velocity over a 45 ACP. It takes a minimum of 900-1000 fps to get most hollow points to mushroom. 9mm has the velocity but the 10mm has the punch. 45 ACP has around 700 fps.
What "punch" are you talking about? Both 9mm and 10mm makes about the same size hole. And for it to be effective that hole has to go trough something vital. For a bipedal uraban target the 9mm has enough penetration so that doesn't make much difference either.
I've carried and trust my life with my G20 for 31 years, sadly majority of commecial 10mm loads are so watered down. I highly recommend Buffalo Bore, Grizzly 80 JHPs or the PMC 170 JHP.
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly perform at 1350 fps and deliver 728 ftlbs. PMCs 170 JHP is 1200 fps and 550 ftlbs. Recoil is very managable and have fired several thousand out of my G20 with no excessive wear and tear. The 1911 was designed for 45 acp and no suprise to me it would wear out in 10mm. The original 10 mm load is a awesome handgun round but was watered down to 40 S&W.
I want kimber eclipse custom 2. Any suggestion?😊
Im a 2011/1911 guy, but lwts just get this over with. The Glock is the best 10mm platform. Hence why he hates the cartridge haha
Yes…. That’s probably truer than I want to admit
You wont find many 10mm handguns with a lot of rounds shot through them because the ammo is too damn expensive. But my Glock 20 has about 5,000 through it with minimal wear with full power loads being the majority.
i have an FN 510 and a new Colt delta elite. Both are amazing pistols. 300 to 400 rounds through both, and there is nothing wrong internally with them. This is the land of the free, and we can have opinions, i just disagree with yours. also, you're drinking an ipa while wearing a flannel... not to be stereotypical but if the shoe fits.....
My takeaway is current Cabot gun manufacturing can't handle 10mm and they don't know how to make a pistol that can support sustained use of high pressure rounds so they are bitter. Other than that, I'd be happy if 9mm and 40S&W went away and 10mm was considered the mainstream, lightweight general purpose caliber most commonly found. Kind of level up the entire pistol culture until someone invents something better. May put Cabot out of business due to their lack of ability to make a 10mm pistol for long term use but there are plenty of other manufacturers out there ready to do the work. I'm not even a 10mm guy but I like evolution.
L-O-L…. Not making 10mm will not put any company of business 🤣🤣
Great video I understand your complaints and issues with the cartridge. I like 10mm for a backup gun for wild hogs and black bears 🐻 when I go bow hunting. I have a bunch of handguns .357mag is my favorite round for pistol and 9mm is my go to carry cartridge. There is a place for 10mm if you want to run it in your rotation. I load Underwood ammo in my hunting 10mm Glocks and Kimber.
Love 10mm myself but agree with your assessment. I. Like it because it’s a good teacher. It magnifies shortcomings a makes for a better shooter. Shoot different guns in different calibers then shoot your favorite and you’ll shoot your favorite better. Going back and forth between Harley Davidson and BMW motorcycles made me a better police motorcycle operator. 10mm great training aid and skill builder.
Thats what i was thinking
I regret watching till the end. Last time I field advice from a 1911 guy xD
Maybe you should watch a 10mm history video yourself.
10mm was here long before the FBI, he'll, it was on Miami vice.
Glock had a foothold already. Their 10mm models are very low volume sellers.
Tell the truth. You work on a 120 year old design. Sorry that your baby was not strong enuf for a modern high-pressure cartridge.
Your problems ARE 1911 problems.
What you don't like is either you are 9mm (like most everyone) or you are 10mm. Sadly, everything between is really fading.
It's not that the 1911 is too weak. The problem is that they are under sprung to function with the low power practice ammo. When sprung for Full power 10mm it won't function with the low power practice ammo. The simple solution involves having a recoil spring assortment tailored to the different ammo.
Actually most hunters in alaska carry 10mm as a side arm. And people get shot by 9 and return fire often. 135 grain 10mm hollows dont over penetrate .
I disagree with you on the 40SW. I have a collection of 40SWs and I love them. You mentioned chamber pressures; I reload the 40 and many other handgun calibers up to a 44 Mag. Chamber pressures of 40SW are comparable to that of a 9mm. The worst gun for it was the discontinued Walther PPS. The SigSauer P229, Glock 27 G3 and PX4 Storm handles the 40SW quite well. I reload and found that using a lighter bullet will soften recoil. For EDC my preferred is Barnes 140g HP TAC-XP. Weight weight weight. Stay away from the 165g an 180g bullets for EDC.
I agree. I have a P226 chambered in .40 S&W, and it's fantastic. It runs the really hot Underwood stuff with no issues too.
@ I also run Super Vel 125g JHP in 40SW and 180g JHP in 44 Magnum.
I understand all the reasons you state. For me, I'm a big fan of 10mm because I'm also a big fan of the .357 magnum. I just prefer semi-autos for CCW over revolovers and my G29 with the right defense loads gives me .357 performance in a semi-auto package. That for me is the biggest draw of the 10mm. Also, I live in Los Angeles and oftentimes have to go into areas infested with the walking dead i.e. the Skid Row area where you will find all of the zombies that are hopped up on meth, crank, trank, drayno and God knows what else. Needless to say, I feel more confident in a one shot stop on an attacking zombie from my 10mm vs the other smaller caliber guns in my rotation.
I agree with your assessment of development of 10mm for the FBI. As you mentioned, the agents were going up against heavily armed assailants while packing only pistols and shotguns. Mostly .38 special revolvers as I recall, and a couple of guys with a 9mm, one of whom shot one of the assailants with the bullet stopping within an inch of his heart, a Slivertip if memory serves. 9mm and the Silvertip were quickly scapegoated for the lack of proper preparation on the part of the FBI. Though I will also contend that the 9mm offerings from back then were quite inferior to what's available today.
As for bears, the only ones I'm likely to ever encounter are the ones I run into in West Hollywood.
Sig 220 legion 10mm is a combination of the Most reliable and durable for pistol.❤
Cmmg 10mm banshee for carbine ❤
Totally disagree with most of his opinions 😂
This combination of firearms is at the front of my wishlist, but so far I have neither yet. I'm glad you're having good luck with both of them.
The FBI wanted a more powerful one shot stop because they had a kill shot that hit by his heart with the 9mm and the man still lived 10 more minutes killing several more officers even being shot several times. The officers 357 revolver fell to the ground in the beginning of the fight and je couldn't get to it. Anyone will tell you the 40 has better one shot stop that a 9 all day long specialy in 165 grain. Pistols are for self defense and the best cartridge for all around hunting self defense scenarios thats not a revolver is the 10 mm so i would say it doesn't suck just people have different preferences
So where can I buy your ria 10mm if you are indeed selling it.
Yes 10 mm is harder on guns, but if Hipoint can make one out of zamak zinc cast metal that can shoot hot loads. This argument is invalid. The biggest issues with glock 10 mm was early chamber support, which has been improved. Also 10mm just isn’t as hot as people think. Sure top quality loads can push to the 700 ft lbs of energy area most commercial loads are in the 450-600 ft lbs range. Really this makes it like a semi auto 357 magnum. And no one complains about. 357. My personal opinion is 9 mm and 45 need to die. 10mm needs to replace 45 acp, more power more capacity in the same size platform. My opinion with a bit more load development 30 sc should take over 9mm. More speed more capacity. I think it’s time to bring loads into the 21st century. 9 and 45 are great but development and new technology is stagnant. The thing that bothers me is so many people develop compensators and recoil reducing technology for 9mm which I think is redundant. Why would t you make it for 10mm to make it more acceptable recoil for most people. That said I love 1911s but making them in 9mm is dumb. Cz platform is much better for that in my mind
That’s a whole lotta 10mm coping right there
@@defconcreativegod damn right
30 Super Carry is a joke. It cost more than the 9mm, not as much power, and you only get two more rounds. If two more rounds is going to make that much difference, you're in some place you never should have been...
@@raybell9091cost goes down if it is produced more. If more people supported it then cost would come into line. Still a new round. I said with 30sc if more load development helped push speed or bullet weight to provide a bit more energy. It doesn’t have to be 30 sc but round like it should replace 9 mm. Similar design where it’s faster than 9mm and holds more but isn’t super long like 5.7. 9mm is over a hundred years old I’m just saying that it’s time to replace it. Everyone is so infatuated with 9 mm because the fbi and military use it currently and yes it’s a decent round that has stood the test of time. But something needs to happen. And in my examples the 30sc is great for concealed carry personal protection, everything else should be 10mm like the military and police.
What’s the blacked out 1911 to the left?
It’s a Cabot
Nick's information on the FBI shootout and subsequent adoption of 10 mm is off.
1. I agree that the FBI agents were mostly under gunned at this horrible trajedy. But let's not forget that agent Morales finished the shooting with a 12 gauge that he pumped with one hand due to an arm wound.
2. The reason the FBI wanted more penetration was due to a 9mm 115 grain Winchester Silvertip that penetrated Platt's bicep prior to entering his body cavity and falling short of his heart. It was not due to a request for more power but for more penetration.
3. Main stream FBI agents never received the full power load. Same was tested by the Marksmanship Training Unit in an agent's personally owned Colt Delta Elite and was deemed too much for general agents to handle. Hence the development of the lower powered 10mm round which gave the FBI the penetration it wanted at the time. The agents never "limp wristed" full power loads due to never being issued them.
😮Most of us know and agree this all lead to the development of the .40 short and weak.
I just wanted to clear a few misconceptions out there about the FBI and 10mm. Please carry on with the debate. 😅
@johnklatt3522 You are correct sir. That was my mistake.
As the owner of two Cabot 1911s, I couldn't care less about the price of the ammo. I'll call Rob next week to hear his opinion about the 10mm.
Bears are not the only reason people want a 10mm pistol. I own a Glock 20 because I wanted a 10mm, not because I'll be hunting bears. I put 130 rounds through it yesterday. It is very accurate and no harder on my hand than the .45 ACP.
Why do you give a rip if people purchase a Glock 20? There is no need to disparage whole groups of people because you can't see past a 45 ACP 1911. Grow up.
I don't expect Cabot to make a 1911 in 10mm soon. Does that bother me? Absolutely not!
You would not hunt bears with a 10mm pistol; it's a SHTF backup weapon. If you try bringing your rifle to point on a charging bear in less than two seconds, it won't happen. Do some research before you run your mouth.
Regarding your 44-mag statement, you would be hard-pressed to get off even one shot in three seconds with an adrenaline dump, while I'll get off at least five 10 mm out of my Glock 20! I'm not going to bet my life on one 44-mag round!
IMHO, I'd not be drinking a beer and admit to having had two "adult beverages" before you started your post.
Cool
I actually agree with 99% of what you say. But the 10mm is a very good round for a very niche need. I live 8 miles from the Yellowstone boundary, I have grizzlies that walk thru my neighborhood on a weekly basis, there are currently grizzly tracks in the snow 20 feet from my front door. And there are many accounts of hunters defending themselves successfully in the nearby back country with 10mm. To be fair, I normally have a Sig P365 on me with 147g Underwood “black cherry” rounds, that should be fine in a pinch. But I do have a Sig XTEN I carry when I go hiking. And a Benelli M4 loaded with bear slugs in case Yogi tries to break into my cabin.
Respectfully, I know something about firearms as well, having been a certified instructor of police and civilians in the venue of personal protection. I am a tactical firearms instructor and defensive tactics instructor, which is the basis for qualifying me to make the following observations.
I am familiar with people as well; I'm curious if this is just another example of clickbait or if you are serious. As a retired cop, among other things, I would never tell anybody that their personal choice of firearm was silly, worthless, or wrong. Besides, where do I have the right to say to you that what you select is wrong... maybe it is the only one you can afford. Liberals and Progressives are more inclined to dictate how we should spend our money or what we should buy! Again, just an observation.
I don't have a "TH-cam" channel, and I can't say I want one. However, I digress. Making blanket statements can make some people believe you know what you are talking about, and others will see it as questionable on the light side but as foolish on the flipside; just saying.
I shoot my firearms often; my 10mm is included in the frequently fired as well. Any gun fired or taken care of will always experience punishment just from being fired, let alone neglected.
It is the "Second Law of Thermodynamics." The "entropy" law states that everything moves from a state of order to disorder. I don't care how often you change the oil in your car, and I highly recommend doing it frequently; that engine will get beaten down. Does that mean I shouldn't own one, or maybe buy one but don't drive it? What the hell kind of logic, or lack of it.
Does that mean that a hot load will punish a particular platform more than one less hot, of course? However, should that mean that you shouldn't have one and shoot it, if for no other reason than your right as an American to do so? Shoot a twenty-two pistol or rifle long enough, and the bore will get worn. A firearm is a tool, I use it until it wears out, then I get another one. What do you have in your life that you can use forever? I will wait for your answer...
I have a 10mm and a bunch of other calibers I own because I wanted one! I can't say I will be hunting in "Bear" country, but here is one example you so flippantly dismissed. I am a traditional bowhunter; I can't have a bow in one hand and a rifle in the other. For the majority of my time in the military and as a police officer, I carried a semi-auto on-duty undercover, as a detective, and off-duty. I carry one in the woods, not because I can't shoot a bow accurately, but because I want protection from two-legged and four-legged bad actors, and they can be found in the wilderness, too!
I love my 10mm Kimber pistol; if it requires service, I will get it serviced, which is the same as the maintenance required for any other type of firearm shooting a cartridge.
Intelligent information sharing is always welcomed; I have just taken this rare opportunity to express another side of the equation: Why so few people will be misled. I have discovered a superpower I often use: the ability to hear things I disagree with, minus the need or desire to get upset or take it personally.
It didn't come easy, but my time as a cop was a great training ground for it! You see, after having people try to run over me, threaten my life, shoot at me, yes, many times, and fighting alone in the dark of night against "Ex-Cons" who looked me in the eye and said, "I ain't going back to jail." Stupid shit doesn't get my ire up anymore.
Have a good day, and be blessed... Oh, and try not to insult people's intelligence; some folks just don't cotton to such things.
I'm sensing the 10mm might have bullied Nick some... Any cartridge can be criticized, even the world's greatest has negatives. What matters most is if the end user enjoys it and the needs are met.
I can point to where 10mm touched me on a doll
I like and use the 40, but don't see any use for the 10mm.
I'm pretty sure I rather make out with my grandmother than fly with this guy.
You’d make out with your grandmother?
@@defconcreative never.
If a bear charges you you would rather have a 10mm with hard cast ammo than all your arguments against it. I own several and practice regularly on moving targets . not a single one of my 10mm has reliability issues.
I would rather not have a bear charge me TBH
Yeah acting like there a no reliable 10mm options is just goofy at this point there are several. Xdm. Glock. FN. Rock island and Kimber 1911s..ect. I have 3000 plus rounds in my xdm and glock 10mm no failures so far with variety of ammo. But as far as a bear charging I wouldn't want a 10mm I would want my 500 magnum with underwood 350 grain extreme penetrators. Or better yet a rifle. 300 win mag perhaps
In the mid 80’a I bought ret new handgun. I didn’t just go buy the first thing I saw, I did a lot of research prior to my purchase. I came across a magazine article that discussed one shot stops, shootings in which the attacker stopped their assault on the would be victim. Evan Marshall and Massad Ayoob complied records on the the shooting that there was police files available. Now, at this time 10MM and .40 Smith and Wesson rounds weren’t on the market yet, but what I found was interesting. The statistics showed that 9 MM Parabellum averaged 85% on the one shot stops, and they were tied with 45 ACP taking every bullet into account. The best performing round at that time was the 357 magnum with a 125 grain bullet. That said, there is no magic bullet that will work 100% of the time in handguns. I say that because a believe a shotgun slug would pretty much put anyone down. Anyway I purchased a Taurus 669 revolver. It was a heavy barreled 357 magnum. After that purchase I kept reading everything I could find and two articles caught my attention. Both were gelatin tests on two different calibers. First was the 357. The second was the 40 smith and Wesson 180 grain bullet. When looking at the pictures provided in those articles their performance in gelatin was identical! So the weak 10MM thing is total bullshit. As for the 10MM, it’s higher velocity would increase the bullet’s stopping power, but it’s recoil prevents most people rom getting a quick second shot on target. Still, with today’s improved bullet design it would be a good performer against human targets. The biggest problem with it would be over penetration, which is why I never bought a pistol in the caliber.
Now if I could have a toy, I’d love an old Thompson in 10MM with a rotary magazine.
Just get an M&P or XDM and stop ur fussin
I must not be as big of a 10mm fan as I thought. As I do not meet any of Nick's description. Though you for forgot about 3 things. 1) the reason 10mm ammo is not purchased is due to it being close to 40S&W pressures on big box shelves. Speak with Buffalo Bore or Fenix and it is their hottest sellers. 2) Because of number 1 10mm is loved by the reloading community. Not all of us subscribe to hunting loads above saami spec I for one do not. When I need something stronger than 180gr at 1300fps I jump to a larger caliber. 3) i know I will be run away from here but 10mm in a Revolver is very handy.
Hey I know you! You’re great!
If you have a 10mm revolver, have you looked into converting it to 10mm magnum? As a handloader of wildcat cartridges, that could be an interesting direction for your channel, if you’re looking for ideas. Starline makes brass for it, and I’ve read that it can reach 41 and 44 mag levels of power.
@@michaelestrada2772 It can reach 41magnum for sure. I would only do that in like a Ruger Blackhawk. I have given it some thought as soon as I get close another project comes up LOL.
IPA drinkers 😂
One problem with 10mm is the double standards that were set for it. If you sell a 10mm handgun, it better be able to handle the max. As soon as a Guntuber shows how 1000 rounds of Bison Backwater 225 grain hardcast will jam or break the gun, no one will want it. But it still has to function perfectly with Walmart low-powered ammo thanks to the FBI. 10mm already existed, BTW. The FBI just made super low-powered 10mm a "standard" thing that these guns should be able to function with.
45ACP is watered down from the start. Easier bar to meet for a handgun design. Then if you want to convert a gun to shoot 45 Super levels out of the same sized case, same OAL? That's on you to sort out the kinks.
By sucks, you mean hard to get to feed correctly in a 1911. other folks have figured it out, and you all could too. :)
Well that's great
but 13+ bear attacks this year alone
stopped that were killed with 10 mm handguns
( Grizzlies )...
would say differently in a handgun platform.
But you can have your own opinion on whatever you want.
I don't own a 10mm ,
And the reason you carry a pistol with you,
like i have in,
the wilderness for many many years...
Insted of a rifle or shotgun is because you can't shoot an animal with a long gun
(When it's on top of you) or if you are fishing or doing something else
so a handgun is easy to carry draw and aim ...
That's a objective truth, factual reality,
you can't always have a long gun on, you depends on what you are doing.
You set your rifle down to clear your deer and get attacked and your pistol is always on your body that's why.
Did you know that statistics on bear attacks show that bear spray is far more effective at stopping a charging bear than a pistol or a revolver?
Clever way to get engagement to feed the algorithm. 😛 I've been in love with the 10mm since it first came out and the first handgun I ever purchased was a Gen 2 Glock 20 back in 1991. While I've owned a number of other 10mm's over the years, that one is still what I carry the vast majority of the time and I'm up near 80,000 rounds through it, many of them nuclear handloads. Aside from regular replacement of the small parts and springs just for maintenance sake, the thing has just been stupid reliable and trouble free. Its pretty rough looking from all of the handling and holster wear, but it is without any doubt, my "one gun" if I had to get rid of all others. That said, having had several 1911 platform 10mm's and a couple of S&W's (1006, 1076), I will agree on them beating themselves up. If they're reliable, they're probably fine for the occasional shooter... but as you eluded to, if you're running several hundreds rounds a month through them, they're not super likely be around for very long.
As I sit here laughing my tail off, I agree with everything you said...as I stroke my Glock 10mm. Btw as a 1911 guy, it doesn't get any better then Cabot. Love to hear you on your 4th adult beverage my friend.
40 short and weak beats 9mm everyday hands down. Think in terms of volume of powder.
You should probably not drink before trying to have an intelligent fireside chat. 40S&W still outperforms 9mm EVERYDAY all day is #1.#2, 10mm is a hell of a cartridge that you dislike for no valid reason, other than, other people like it. 10mm is also versatile enough or self defense or big game. 10mm yes I agree takes more skill and technique than the average shooter has, but that is every shooter's choice. People who don't like 10mm are those that can't shoot it well. Next time you want to make an argument bring some proof of a "beat up gun" 9mm blows up as many guns as 10mm if that's your argument. Stupid video, Not that it matters, but I know to never waste another second of my life watching any of your videos. Cool.🤙✌
I can see he's searched hard for an argument against. 10mm. He can just admit he's just not built to effectively fire .10mm.
Van, Neither am I. 5'8", 130 lbs, 75 year old Alaska Bushman & I LOVE my 10mms. Best bear stopper handguns around & taking over Alaska like a tidal wave because they WORK. I don't even carry my 45/70 rifle anymore. Don't need it to stop a charging grizzly. Underwood's 200/ 220 gr Hardcasts & same for Buffalo bores asst. Bear thumpers. I prefer the XDM-Es. Either one. 3.8 but my favorite is the 4.5. They've never failed & unlike the Klunks they don't need rebuilding. This clown is so full of shyt it's leaking out of his mouth.
@tristantimothy1004 exactly, well said
I'm definitely with you on point number one. If I was going to intentionally arm myself to protect myself against bears a semi-auto cartridge that is the ballistic equivalent of 357 Magnum would not even be in my mind.
Even MP5/10s beat themselves to death. But 8in 10mm performance is hard to beat.
It really isn’t a very good round
@defconcreative there is nothing wrong with the round. The round is fine. Everything else is the problem
@@defconcreativewanna prove your retardation? See how many times 10mm has been used successfully in bear and wild game defense and get back to me. Or keep deleting my comments like a pussy.
I love my 1006....had it for prolly 20 years, opinions are opinions and I dont live in bear country.
I dont see a lot in here to sour my love for 10mm. Yes, it is harder on guns and they need to be beefier to stand up. Pretty much everybody knows and accepts that. I still have a delta elite that I bought in 1987. It is very reliable with original norma clear up to buffalo bore but it is a low rounds gun. .357 and .44 mag are also rough on guns but you didnt say that they suck. .357 is the only caliber I have experienced to damage a gun. My Colt Python got sloppy loose after a steady diet of 125g JHP magnum rounds. In my recollection it was Jeff Cooper that brought the 10mm into existence before the disasterous FBI gunfight in 1986. The FBI simply adopted the 10mm because it was available and had more power than the 9mm. The 1986 fight had a terrible outcome not so much because the agents were completely outgunned. They actually hit the bad guys multiple times with their weapons but it failed to stop them. This allowed the bad guys to kill many more agents than they should have been able to. This is more of an indictment of the 9mm Winchester Silver Tip 115g which was found to not reliably penetrate to the vitals. Actually you fail to mention the major reasons NOT to carry 10mm. These being the increased recoil making follow-up shots more difficult and the possibility of over-penetration on human type targets. There is no free lunch in this universe. There are always trade offs we have to consciously weigh and decide upon. 10mm is basically a magnum cartridge for auto-loaders. There are compromises to carrying any caliber, The important thing is to be aware of them and act accordingly. One last suggestion. Dont drink multiple "adult beverages" right before you talk to a bunch of people.
Yes for self defense there will not be much difference in performance between a 9mm and a 10mm. Both will penetrate far enough and both will make about the same wound cavity with the same design of bullets. With pistol calibers you have to hit a vital organ directly no matter what caliber you use, and the wound cavity does not go much beyond the diameter of expanded bullet because it does not have enough speed for any meaningful hydrostatic effect. So with a 10mm you are left with more recoil and less magazine capacity for about the same terminal performance as a 9mm. And for bears you really want a minimum of a hot .44 mag or more power. And i don't really see the point in handgun hunting.
You make some decent points. I think that some of the newer pilymer frame designs help to take advantage of the flexibility of polyer though to mitigate some of the abuse parts take from 10mm.
The other interesting thing is that the avereage 10mm buyer is most likley going to buy cheap range/practice ammo which if you arent paying close attention is more like 10mm lite and loaded more to .40sw specs (180 gr bullet about 1000 fps). I had a buddy let me shoot his 10mm, and i was expecting more recoil since it was in a sub-compact like frame. I shot a mag through it and was like it doesnt recoil much more than my Walther P99AS .40sw (compact size ish). Then i looked at the box of ammo and was like well that explains a lot. I tokd him if he really wanted full 10 mm power to look for some ammo with more than 1200 fps velocity.
My issue with the 10mm isn't the caliber really it is the loadings available by most ammo brands. You're getting a neutered 10mm that's barely stronger than the .40 S&W factory loads. Unless you load your own or buy ammo brands like Buffalo Bore you'd be better served by the .40S&W.
Didn’t Glock say they sell more 10mm than 45 ACP ?
If Glock sells it I don’t want it
For Bear use Desert eagle government 45/70 single action revolver trust me I live in Wisconsin
I would prefer a higher powered rifle over 10 mm for bear, but it is bow hunters that can’t carry a rifle that use 10mm.
I remember the Bren 10, Delta, etc. had problems with metal fracturing with 10mm. Strangely enough, Glock’s polymer held up better.
Glock 10mm is still the choice in many places for government game management (other than a rifle) handgun in many countries after all these years.
As a revolver guy, I’ve always struggled with regular semi auto pistol calibers. 10mm doesn’t offer anything over a good 45 Super/450 SMC, and we still have the availability of 45 ACP. I might play with the V2 buffer from 460 Rowland, because I like the extra firepower…but maybe in a cheaper gun. I don’t want to beat up my TRP. This is what makes semi autos so hard. Everything stated about timing, spring weights, and whatnot is true. So much easier to chase more ft lbs of energy in a revolver.
Long OAL can cause problems that are already compounded by the already long OAL
The 10mm is nearly the only reason to own a 1911..(Mine is a custom STI). When a cheaper 1911 fails... you have a club in your hand.
i like my vector in 10 mm
I disagree because With liberty civil defense 10mm 60 grains, from a 6.5” aftermarket barrel I achieved nearly 2700 fps. So I’m getting actual rifle ballistics from a Glock 😂
That’s what I’ll be looking at when I finally pay off my 1st 10mm. That light weight screaming round haha. I’ll check them out !!
6.5in kkm barrel is what I've got in my G40, I've also got a few boxes of those civil defense rounds, just never got a chance to chrono them, now I know! 2700fps that's insane coming out of a handgun!
@@timblack131 I almost had to use it on someone couple months ago. Luckily I was able to escape the situation however another bystander was armed and shot and killed the guy. Anyway, the velocity fluctuates a lot, between 2550 and 2650 most of the time with some outliers below or above that. Average velocity around 2600.
40 S&W is my favorite round. You're just yappin captain.
The big problem I see with 10mm: If you actually read the box adn compare velocities, a not insignificant number of 10mm rounds are travelling at the same velocity as 40 S&W rounds. It's easy for me to spot because my carry gun is a 40 S&W and I fixate on slug weight and speed. I like the idea behind the 10mm. I have one pistol chambered in it. I would consider getting more more. But there's no value in buying another gun in 10mm when I'm going to have to either scrounge for appropriately loaded cartridges travelling at 1,200-1,300 FPS (or more), pay the 10mm premium for ammo that's no more powerful than 40 S&W, or just shoot 40 S&W through the pistol. In 2 of 3 of those scenarios, the best bet is to just go with 40 S&W instead.
Most loads are watered down.
That is why I buy the virgin brass and load my own...
When ya gonna do one of them there fancy schmancy meteorite guns in 10mm?
Hahahaha…. NEVER!!!
Thugs have used the 9mm for years. I like the xdm 10mm
We don’t say anything about XDs here
I have to admit, I was pondering getting a 10 mill. However I haven’t pulled the trigger is for the reasons you mentioned. If I ever scratch that itch, It will be a Delta elite. Not that I would carry it, but because of potential collector status. I do carry a 1911 frequently in 9mm or Gods caliber. Thanks for your input.
My 10mm pistols are for hunting hogs, deer etc.. If I want something that has little recoil, noise etc. to plick with I use a 22, not a 9mm. If I want a pocket gun I grab my .380. 9mm is a great gun but it is a compromise. If I know I'm going to a gun fight I leave my 9mm at home and grab a rifle or shotgun. If I want something concealable and I know I'm going to a gun fight I grab my 45 or 10. 9mm is seldom a first choice and most of mine are micro compacts as I'm more likely to actually carry them, that is one of the very few advantages and I can usually match that with the more powerful 40 S&W.
While you are entitled to your opinion I pretty much disagree with most of what you said. Call it a preference, not a factual account of why the 10mm sucks because that improper terms pretty much... sucks!
Sounds like you get into a lot of gunfights
I think 10 mm could be a very good daily carry cartridge. I'm going to buy one on me to carry while I'm hunting out in the field. I want one with at least a 6-inch barrel so that's going to be a little more difficult. I am hunting in Nevada I'm not worried about bears. I just think it would be a decent all-around self-defense cartridge. In Nevada it is perfectly legal to hunt with a pistol. a scenario that has played out for me. I'm squatting next to a tree by myself with my rifle on the ground a few feet away, just out of reach, when a nice-looking book just wanders by about 30 yards down the hill. I had my handgun on. But I didn't feel comfortable taking that shot with a Glock 17. If I had had a 10 mL on me or even a 357 Magnum or 44 revolver I would have definitely taken that shot
I'm on vacation in the US right now, so I am a bit in rush.
When I come back in France, I will watch the video.
I was interested in a delta elite in 10 mm.
Maybe you will change my mind.
Well since you guys can't really shoot a lot, you'll probably be fine
@defconcreative yep, in fact, it would be more a collectible gun than a shooter, I wouldn't carry such a gun.
It's a good cartridge in general, but I only own one in a revolver for a reason. It's a bit much for a semi auto handgun. I hear lots of bear defense stories where 10mm is involved that start with "and he was able to clear the malfunction and put more rounds into the animal". Now with 10mm ammo for 2 legged defense - it's no surprise that most 10mm hollow point defensive ammo is basically a .40 S&W in a long case, has to be to run reliably.
If 10mm sucks, why would you spend so much to customize yours? The FBI was upset because the main bad guy was shot in the arm and into the chest with a standard 9mm silvertip and it stopped an inch from his heart, thus the penetration issue. FBI just adopted it but had nothing to do with the development. The brass did not fly that far. Mag-na-port!!!
While HK built a usp around the 40 sw they did not build a 10 mm usp. I think they know what they are doing.
I started crying when you dissed my .40 EDC. Waaaa😢 Hahahaha 😂
I had one so I’m not immune to my own insults
Maybe you should work on wrist strength. You are wrong, the 10mm predates the FBI shootout.
You make some valid points but in the end 10mm is pretty awesome. I think it lends it's self more to polymer frame handguns though due to the battering issues in all metal guns.
There were quite a few bears killed by 10mm pistols this year in Alaska. I carry a 9mm most of the time unless I am in the mountains or something, then I carry a glock 20 because it has been proven when it comes to defense from large animals, the capacity is is better than a revolver, and it is much easier to shoot than a 44mag. Now the glock 20 is usually my backup gun in the woods, I prefer to have a semi-auto 308 or a 4570, but if I can't always have a rifle.
Love Cabot handguns. They are absolutely awesome. I have two and if I wasn't so old I'd have more. Good video.
Aren't most handgun bear encounters ended with 9mm anyway?
I have a box of rocks that totally agrees with you.