rating every Smash Bros. series symbol
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- going through all the series symbols used in Super Smash Bros., and assigning them scores.
intro - 00:00
symbols introduced in Smash 64 - 02:01
symbols introduced in Melee - 12:16
symbols introduced in Brawl - 15:22
symbols introduced in Smash for - 21:30
symbols introduced in Smash for (DLC) - 26:39
symbols introduced in Ultimate - 27:50
symbols introduced in Ultimate (DLC) - 29:56
outro - 32:57
/ hbmmaster
conlangcritic.bandcamp.com
seximal.net
/ janmisali - เกม
idk what happened with the audio for this one either
i don’t mind it
Yeah something's funky. Is it on TH-cam's end or just the recording process?
I just call it the "xbox live turtle beach aesthetic"
@@BLiu1OSP's most recent video also had audio issues, and it made the audio sound like this one. idk what's going on tbh :/
Will there be captions soon at least?
F tier for DK is really harsh, that litterally IS the symbol used around donkey kong
Bro never played the best snes games even
It’s on barrels, coins, doors, balloons. It’s arguably more well known of a symbol than the triforce lol
idk man theres not enough oo oo aa aa
@@CosmiKazie in DKC games the barrels with DK on them go "oo oo ah ah" how tf do you expect a logo to do it ?
@@Orbrun you just do it
I think a simple way of making the star icon for Kirby appear more outwardly representative of Kirby would just be to adjust it to make it look like a silhouette of Planet Popstar, which is to say functionally looking about the same, but with the planet's two rings. this way it still evokes the star motif as used in every basically kirby game ever while also being something specific and unique to Kirby.
Such a good idea!!
Nailed it!
oh my god thatd be so sick
Great idea! I love you! Thank you for saving my baby cousin from that burning building last week too!
an additional way of keeping the star design while making it more distinctive would be basing it off of the twinkle stars from the original kirby's dream land (or the projectiles kirby spits after inhaling multiple enemies at once- take your pick for the inspiration). it would again be the same star, but with a second, smaller star off to the side (or ideally a corner), rotated 180 degrees.
i do like that the kirby series symbol is so simple, as kirby games themselves typically are (not in a bad way or anything), but there are better ways of expressing "kirby" than just a single, five-pointed star
I do think it’s pretty inconsistent that Captain Falcon got to be in B-tier for just representing himself but the Sonic series gets to be in C-tier for doing the same thing despite the fact that Sonic’s head is way more distinctive of a logo than the falcon.
I think for fans of Captain Falcon, its distinctive since its on his helmet at all times, so even in Smash you see him with it regardless of the Symbol being it a well. Though outside of people associating it with him, it wouldn't really work for the rest of the series. Whereas Sonic IS represented best as a series with the Sonic Head symbol, so I would put them in the same tier or even have Sonic's higher.
Also, what other symbol could be used for sonic? Because a ring would be nothing more than just a circle.
@@juanrodriguez9971 the best I could think of is a Sonic sneaker with a little spurt of fire coming out the heel. It would be less specific than Sonic while still having iconography from the series as well as showcasing that the series is about speed. That or a chaos/master emerald but that would also probably be too vague.
@@slat1202 what about a spin dash-esque icon similar to the one used in the sonic adventure logo?
It definitely should've been a ring. A Simple design that is extremely Iconic and central to the franchise. Just have it with a slight 3d turn to it like how they spin in the games, and it's perfect.
Tekken's logo being a fist actually makes perfect sense and is really good representation imo. Not only is it Kazuya's glove, it also ties into the meaning of "Tekken" which is "Iron Fist" in Japanese.
Tekken's symbol should've been the kanji for Tekken which literally appears in every logo for every Tekken game ever. It's more iconic than Kazuya's glove.
@ToyotaKudoFan Ah, that's a great point! Though I can see why they didn't go with it, possibly legibility concerns at a small scale, along with maybe wanting to have a symbol more understandable to players of all languages. A fist tells you a lot more about what tekken is about than two characters haha.
@@ToyotaKudoFan - That's like using "DK" for Donkey Kong, is not an icon, is just characters.
@@julianx2rl when stylized in a certain way, they are no longer "just characters"
When you see that specific DK logo in that style you know god damn well they aint talkin about Denmark or something lmao
Yes, but you've got to take into consideration that at least half of SSB''s playerbase isn't fluent in Japanese, thus rendering that reference kind of pointless. As a commenter mentioned above, the Tekken kanji is more iconic and unique.
The Sonic symbol makes more sense when you consider that a picture/silhouette of his head has been the picture for his life-icon ever since literally the first game.
And also the logo of Sonic Team, which is one of the first things you see when you boot up not just Sonic games, but many other Sega games as well.
the ice climbers symbol is a eggplant the main vegetable of the original ice climber nes when you start the game condor hold an eggplant so makes sense to use this symbol
About the pacman symbol: The negative space (the mouth) is exaggerated because we percieve less negative space the more the image is shrunk. It looks off when big but good when small. It's a pretty common technique for logo design. Nice video!
Pac Man looks exactly like that in the original game they didnt exagerate anything in the symbol for smash
Sonic’s head silhouette actually has a lot of significance. It’s the logo for Sonic Team (the dev team that made Sonic) and it’s the perspective you see Sonic’s head at in most Classic games. The symbol is also used for the lives counter, along with many other situations. It definitely should be higher
something like sonics shoes or rings wouldnt work as well
@@tamale413 they’re just not as symbolic to the series. Sure, both of those are very important iconography, but they’re not what Sonic’s famous silhouette is.
@@donstarplayz i said they wouldnt work as well
@@tamale413 oh. I thought that was a typo. My bad 😂
@@tamale413chaos emeralds too
I think the minecraft icon is pretty clearly the grass block. It’s one of the most iconic blocks in minecraft and is used in a lot of the branding, and the choice to highlight the top face of the cube seems deliberate. The next most iconic block that has something significant on the top face is the crafting table but that just doesn’t really look like the icon
Yeah, it's totally the grass block. It's been the series logo for a long time (the entirety of Java Edition's lifespan, iirc) - the dark brown sides and light green top match pretty much perfectly with the block's style in Smash.
Yeah
The only thing that could maybe have topped it is the creeper face
It's literally the desktop icon for the game lmao
when i saw it i literally couldn't tell what game it was from. you say it's obviously the grass block but i feel like that is biased, it does not resemble grass in any way, there is non of the "hanging" grass on the top of the sides like there is for a minecraft grass block. i really don't like this one, i wish they had used a pickaxe or a creeper face or really anything more visually distinctive
i wish they had done it as a cube with the hanging bits of grass on the side. would have made it much more distinctive
My proposal for the Kirby symbol: Planet Popstar. It's still shaped like a star, but the crossed rings orbiting this bizarrely shaped celestial body would make it more distinctly Kirby.
A cracked star referencing the kirby superstar deluxe punching minigame would look absolutely amazing
Yeah, it would specify more that this ain't just any cutesy rounded star, but the very planet Kirby and friends come from, and modern Kirby games like to start with a view at Pop Star, and Pop Star has been the hub world and map in several Kirby games too
@@herivelton1973odd for repping the entire Kirby franchise
@@moosesues8887 I mean, if specific characters got their own specific symbols, it'd nigh-on-perfect for Bandana Waddle Dee (whose first ever appearance was in Megaton Punch), but that's not a thing... at least not yet.
Something I will point out about the Xenoblade one is that in the first game the Monado so important to the plot that _literally no-one will shut up about it._ (there's a compilation of every time Monado is said in a voiced story cutscene and it's 7 minutes long) Not only was the game's original title 'Monado: Beginning of the World', it also manages to sneak in to every other Xenoblade game in some capacity and has huge lore implications. Along with the very recognisable design it's no surprise that it got used as the series' Smash symbol.
While it's true that it's very important to the first game and sneaks into the others, I'd argue that a Trinity Processor core shape is strictly better for that purpose. After all, it represents exactly what the Monado represents, but to an even greater and deeper extent throughout the entire series.
@@rtg_onefourtwoeightfiveseven While I agree, the issue is that Sm4sh came out while Xenoblade 1 was a standalone title, before Xenoblade 2 reintroduced the Zohar. Newcomers to the series through Smash (i.e. most people) would have no idea what the shape represents without making it to the infamous Disc 2 of Xenogears or playing enough of Xenosaga to understand the plot, and the significance of the Trinity Processor is not explained until _the final chapter of Xenoblade 2._ The Zohar shape wasn't even present in 1 until Definitive Edition since it wasn't originally a Xeno game.
Also it was designed after the crucifix, which may have caused some problems...
@@rhiannonbamford8741 Sure, but that's smash 4. Back then it made sense. But the current year is 2023, the current bestselling game in the series is Xenoblade 2, and the Trinity Processor core shape is HUGELY prominent in XC2. Pyra and Mythra are in Smash now, just like Shulk, so the Trinity Processor core is part of the design of at least as many Xenoblade Smash reps as the Monado.
Within Xenoblade the _significance_ of the TP core isn't initially quite as obvious as the significance of the Monado is, but that's temporary. That specific Monado design isn't even a thing for over half of XC1, whereas the Trinity Processor core is relevant for essentially the entirety of XC2 - which, again, more people have played.
And yeah, it's a crucifix, but I can't imagine it'd cause more problems than Simon and Richter who have much more overt Christian iconography.
@@rtg_onefourtwoeightfiveseven Mythra & Pyra came out in the middle of the second fighter pass, so at the time of Ultimate’s launch (where Shulk was still the only Xenoblade fighter) the Monado is still worked as a logo.
@@-AirKat- True but even then it was iffy. XC2 was pretty strongly represented with one of if not the most prominent Mii costumes in the game, and XCX had representation with Spirits. By that point the Zohar/TP core shape was a more consistent emblem of the series - even ignoring the pre-Blades, it showed up in two games to the Monado I's one.
With hindsight offered by the Trinity OST we can of course now definitively say that the TP is Monolith's symbol of choice for the series, but I'd argue that even back then it was a stronger symbol of the series than the Monado I.
It's a little reductive to reduce the scores of the "boring" ones simply because their franchise lacks meaningful iconography. The duck for Duck Hunt may not be particularly interesting, but it is the best possible choice for its game. It, and several other symbols, deserve some recognition for that.
exactly, i feel like mario's mushroom is just as boring and obvious as the duck for duck hunt. but mario goes into S tier for it because mario is a bigger franchise.
Actually, maybe a *crosshair* could’ve worked better as the _Duck Hunt_ logo, since the character Duck Hunt also reps other NES Zapper games. The *NES Zapper itself* has a pretty distinct look; but as a minimalist emblem, it would be just a handgun: the status of _Duck Hunt_ as a light gun game doesn’t change the fact that a Nintendo property would be represented by a symbol of a firearm, facsimile or otherwise. _Meanwhile,_ a crosshair is seen in Duck Hunt’s own attacks, whereas the presence of a Zapper is merely implied. A crosshair, yes.
I feel like the laughing dog will be a better icon for the Duck Hunt than the duck. There were no crosshair in the game, I only had seen crosshair in these very few hybrid games where you can shoot both from the zapper and the controller, while Duck Hunt you can not play without zapper, as controller controls the duck.
I agree with your point though in the case of Duck Hunt the NES Zapper would also fit quite well since the character ends up representing all the games for said accessory.
We could have had a gun, or a crosshair
i think simply wario’s nose + mustache wouldve fit greatly, as its typically used as an icon for him in wario ware games but leaves it open enough to include the wario land franchise as well :3 its also very fitting for his character
And noses are used a hecking lot in WarioWare, many games start up with bouncing dancing Wario noses, most Wario microgames feature his nose and mustache in some capacity, and nose picking is easily the most common joke used in all WarioWare games, which also works very well as a double meaning thing for "Gold Digging", which could refer to Wario's love for money, and how he can go great lengths for sweet treasure and cash money, as well as just nose picking, which is a common habit of his, and could represent how the series isn't afraid of being relatively gross, and they really love nose picking microgames, those have even been bosses on multiple occasions
I think garlic could also work, it appears in the original warioland as well as the warioware series, and the eyes on it would be cute :)
Plus, Wario's mustache is already w-shaped.
:3 could also be warios moustache
@@sunbirth4795 wOw
My guess for why Metroid doesn't use the morph ball as its symbol is probably a fear that people would get it confused with the Pokemon pokeball, and as Pokemon is much more popular/lucrative it gets the priority choice of symbol
I guess that makes sense. They still could’ve gone with a Metroid or even Samus' helmet though.
@@B_Skizzle I totally think a Metroid would have made the most sense since their design also lends itself pretty well to vectorization
Yeah, and if it was the morph ball he'd just complain that it's just a generic orb, like he did with every other symbol that resembled a real thing like Pikmin's flower or Sonic's head, despite Mario's being an S tier as a generic mushroom.
_My_ guess was that it would be way too similar to the logo of Google Chrome
Morphball makes sense why its not that,
Metroid would also be perfect, BUT, also, the screwattack focuses the series symbol on samus specifically, which I think is kinda neat. I just really like the screw attack as a symbol and logo, but that could also just be artifical importance based on the company screwattack.
Jan Misali: Using a sword to symbolize games with swords is poor iconography.
Also Jan: They should have used a sword to represent Final Fantasy
It should have been meteor for FF7 it’s litterally used in Sm4sh for the Midgar stage.
@@taiphonix9232but it doesn't represent the entire series. Only 7 has a buster sword
@@lunasperidot8760 theres literally no other Final Fantasy content in smash bros than FF7 content. With how much love FF7 gets it could even be considered a spin-off the Final Fantasy games.
@@taiphonix9232 okay but I don't think that's good. The fact that jokers logo is the p5 hat is also bad.
@@lunasperidot8760 Sure persona did have other games represented in mii costumes and soundtracks, and for that I can understand MAYBE using the extra effort for the persona series logo, but in my mind comparing a series that has been included as DLC for one game with some content from other games to a series included in 2 games, has consistently only content from one title which is the most popular in its series shows and also has a easy substitute that was even used shows clearly which one is more needed.
The DK symbol is more than just his initials, as it is a symbol that appears on objects all over the Donkey Kong series, everything from barrels to DK's tie to Coins to Golden Relics to Bananas, and is used as shockwaves for some attacks within DK64. i think it would actually be weird if something else represented the Donkey Kong series
Even the barrels wouldn't be iconically DK's barrels if they didn't have the DK symbol on them! They'd just be barrels, and Mario and a thousand other games already have those!
Well a banana bunch would have worked too, but those are just bananas so.
Woah didn't expect to see you here!
I probably would have gone with a barrel with DK on it, but maybe it was too small to read at that scale.
nice pfp
BABE WAKE UP
Wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up
Babe please, it's been so long... just wake up...
JAN MISALI JUST DROPPED
@@mikelp9600 will he ever get back up?!
Babe, we all miss you. Please wake up...
The fists are so distinctive that I feel you judged them rather harshly
also, punch out deserves a pass because the game is CALLED punch out, and there's almost no actions you can even take in this series of games except PUNCH. yes Super smash bros is a fighting game, but punch out is specifically the punching game!
and, more importantly, it's not even a fist! it's a *boxing glove*. which is a piece of sports equipment specifically designed to make punches non-lethal for competitive, organized matches. that's hyper-specific to the punch-out series! no one would ever mistake that for another "punching" game like street fighter, final fight, tekken, double dragon, etc
@@chastermief839 yeah, a boxing glove is not a fist. I don't know why JM decided that was a problem. I enjoyed the video but disagreed on many of the placings.
@@chastermief839 Tekken, on the other hand, is literally a shortening of "Iron Fist" in Japanese. What else would you use as the icon but a distinctively-gloved fist.
And the ARMS logo incorporates the springy detail of the extendable arms of the fighters.
@@FixTheWi-Fi It's also in an uppercut motion, like the electric wind god fist, the most iconic move of the series.
The Mii icon is literally in the same one used to represent them in many titles that include them, like Mii Maker. Also, the crown icon for Mii Plaza could've just been the plant icon used in the 3DS' Home Menu.
I'll also argue that the DK, SF and FF text icons are appropriate because they use the same typeface as the full logo, and in DK's case it is more recognizable than bananas or barrels.
I agree with you on DK but the meteor logo is literally right there, since both FF characters come from FF7
Use the kong barrel from the country games, that way you get a barrel which is still visually distinct.
i still think the fact of why the miis don't have our own playlist i also have an idea for the name for the playlist i gonna call the miis and wii era games
28:04 As a huge CV nerd I feel in the obligation to break a lance in favor of my fav franchise by saying that its not JUST a castle, its THE castle, Draculas Castle, which is LITERALLY called Castlevania, and that logo appears in pretty much all the CV series concept art, like the SotN iconic Alucard portrait, so it makes sense, also, as side tangent, it makes sense for the bat to be there because in the official artworks there are bats flying from and to the castle.
The other choices were either a whip, which is pretty generic looking despite how important it is, or an inverted cross with bat wings that appears in the DS games in the top screen and at the end of the credits sequence, but that could be religiously problematic out of context.
Could the design of the castle be simpler? Maybe, but I would still give it a C tier at the very least.
Also, as it's char are some of the grittiest in smash it kinda makes sense that it's represented with a more detailed icon
Nah, that thing's terrible for the context. At small scale it looks like the face of an angry blob monster.
I think just the bat would be way better. You could say it could also be Bayonettas, but I just associate bats way more with Castlevania than anything else
I heavily disagree with Donkey Kong. DK has been heavily associated with both the series and the character since inception unlike W for Wario and SF for Street fighter.
DK is such an important legacy symbol for Donkey, Diddy, Dixie, and Cranky. It’s been his logo in so many games and is on the barrels in the DKC games. And for the alternatives?
A Barrel I think that could work if the DK is silhouetted on them, but drawing the lines on the barrel is too messy. Bananas would be fine but in general I feel like a giant DK is big and cartoony just like the series it is from.
Also you got... D-K!. DONKEY KONG! The song is literally called the DK Rap.
Yeah it is def not F tier
I really thought it was supposed to be the DK on Donkey's tie
@@mmmmmmggggggcccccc yeah and it’s everywhere in DK64, the most recent DK game when Smash 64 was being made.
@@Magic_Icenot to mention, if the scenario where DK had bananas as his logo, and then fucking Monkey Ball gets added in. What the fuck is gonna be the logo for Monkey Ball???
When that game is literally about collecting Bananas... in a ball.
I love the roulette wheel of “what will jan hyper focus on this week for a video”
jan is toki pona for person, his name is Misali not jan.
@@janNowa jan is the equivalent of Mr. or Ms. or any other title like that, in English.
@@I_Love_Learning kinda, but not really? its not an optional title like in English, its literally just the word for person, and the persons name is an adjective describing it. So literally, "the person named Misali".
@@syro33 I think its just acting as a pronoun here. I see it no different than *singular they, and in the spirit of toki pona it is the most basal way of conveying that, since it is already a word. "what will the person hyper focus on," no?
@@mateostenberg "ona"
It bothers me a little bit that you suggest the Buster Sword as a strong piece of iconography for Final Fantasy while you kind of write off the Monado for Xenoblade.
The Monado is significantly MORE important to Xenoblade’s branding, symbolism, and imagery than the Buster Sword is to FF.
I feel like it was meant as a quick example for what they could have chosen for Final Fantasy.
Honestly for me (even if I haven't played either game) the little comet logo would have probably fit Cloud a lot more, or just a chocobo if they wanted a more general Final Fantasy looking symbol
As for Xenoblade, I think it would have been a lot better if they instead focused on the circle in the sword over drawing the entire sword and cropping it. They could even do something fancy like having the iconic little X logo in the middle of the circle if it looks a little too empty.
isn't the monado (or other monados) essentially the central mcguffin of all three main games?
The symbol for xeno should really be an X in cus it's the one thing the games all have in common and the X has kinda become synonymous with xeno as a whole
Using the buster sword would have at least put it up to D tier. Like sure, might not be the *best* option, but it was right there.
@@cideofsacae Just 1 and 2, and the Monado and Aegis both stop being macguffins in the last leg of each game. The idea of Monado-like weapons and the origins and legacy of such weapons and their wielders is more of a central idea.
Some of these gets messy but even the outline of Draculas Castle on a small scale is definitely noticeable. You might not see every detail in game, but its still recognizable as the Draculas Castle, and i see this mentioned even when people who didn't play any Castlevanias sees it.
The thing is, as much as castles are a common occurrence, a disconected weird castle with a giant bat near the top is such a good way to show what the series is all about, including the hard platforming on the earlier games, and the metroidvania style of the later ones
Im not a fan of the series so i dont know if there is s better symbol than this, only played like 2 games, but always thought this specific symbol was very clever
It's a decent icon. The DS games used a stylized crescent moon as the C in Castlevania in their logos, but that would look pretty similar to Bayonetta. A bat symbol could work too
I'll be honest as a non-fan it feels a bit too literal and lazy. "A game called Castlevania? Make the symbol a castle". A cross would've probably been better
@@squirtleislife1312 Nah, using actual religious symbols is generally a bad idea.
Also aren't crosses just one of several interchangeable weapons you get in those games?
@@nathanl8622 I mean religion is a big deal for the series with the holy water, the cross boomerang and the Grand Cross being the final smash, the games are about killing monsters with the power of God from what I understand. But if not a cross (like the side b to be clear, not the actual religious symbol), the whip I believe is a holy weapon passed down by the Belmonts and the two in smash use it, so I feel that would work too
@@squirtleislife1312 Yeah, but the religious symbol seems to be more about symbolizing the religion itself rather than the actual series it's supposed to represent, that is kind of the issue about it.
FWIW I’d argue as a metroid fan the screw attack is a pretty good symbol for the series. It was almost always the last item you acquire in the sequence in the early games and easily one of the most powerful. It was effectively the item that meant you no longer had to worry about basic enemies as now simply navigating through the room would get rid of the enemies for you whereas you would previously need to slow down and get rid of them manually. For a series about the progression of power from beginning to end, the screw attack is one of the most iconic things in my mind as something that represents that progression.
Agreed F Tier seems really harsh
more distinct than a star or some letters, at least
It also has an S!
For Samus!
folga wooga imoga womp
This sounds like a really good justification, but, I gotta admit, as someone who has never played the Metroid games, I would never have assumed a symbol that looks like an S was a Metroid symbol. In fact, in the times I've seen it before as profile pictures that people had, I thought it was an alternate symbol for Super Smash Bros. itself. F tier's probably too harsh, but definitely kind of a confusing symbol without context.
I think the minecraft symbol actually is supposed to represent a specific cube - a grass block, the one most commonly used to represent Minecraft. The shaded in top is because the grass is a different color from the dirt sides.
I was about to make this exact comment, but I'll just updoot yours instead. o7
I think this symbol is also used somewhere in Minecraft as well? Like the desktop icon or something. But I still think have the grass outlines on the side would be more iconic for it, since its is a bit TOO simplistic. That, or the creeper face would work (but I actually do think the block is better).
@@GBDupree Yes, Minecraft's game icon (e.g, in the taskbar when it's running, and the launcher's desktop icon used to be it as well) is a grass block.
Was also thinking the same thing. The coloured in top instantly made me think it was the grass block.
However you choose the symbol for Donkey Kong, it has to feature the DK letters. If it was a barrel, it would only be recognizable with the DK letters on it, otherwise it could be any random barrel. Same thing with a banana, I feel like it requires the DK letters to be identifiably Donkey Kong.
The DK symbol is the iconic symbol for the modern Donkey King (ie: DK64 and later games, excluding the SNES and Arcade Games)
well dkc games have the DK logo in character barrels
That’s why the bananas would have been better than either DK or a barrel.
I understand why you rank letter logos among the lower tiers but, I do think you overlooked some excellent typographical design on that FF logo. That font is intantly recognizable and FF is one of the only franchises that is commonly just referred to as the two initials. Even Donkey Kong is usually called Donkey Kong instead of DK (with some exceptions).
Also the fact that the logo for EVERY Final Fantasy game uses that font. It's very distinctive!
The words "Final Fantasy" in that specific font is also the only iconography shared by the Final Fantasy series overall.
I am so disgusted with so many of the rankings in this. Was not expecting to disagree this much.
Great video.
how much of it is the letters?
I dont know if im crazy but i love everything he put in F tier lol
@@xjanise2412 Basically all of F (except the metal mushroom, I can see his point with that), and then like half of C and D. The comment he made on Xenoblade especially. That pissed me off lmao. Like that’s certainly one way to say you haven’t played Xenoblade without literally saying “I’ve never played Xenoblade”
@@braintrope4736o be fair I do think the symbol of the Conduit (the one on Pythra/Malos and also worn as a necklace by Alvis in XCDE) would do a better job to sum up the series as a whole. Being the exact reason behind both XC1 and XC2 happening (and I assume XC3 but I didn't finish it yet)
This being said, when Smash4 came out, XC2 didn't even exist and XCX had lots of Easter eggs of stuff shaped like Monado, so it made sense to use the Monado as the symbol. Also it is way more distinguishable and unique, so even today it works fine
I say eggplant was to high
I would've personally bumped the Sonic one at least one rank higher--if only because it's not just the silhouetted head of the main character, but that specific angle and such also distinguishes it as the logo for Sonic Team, the group behind the mainline Sonic games. True, the Sonic Team logo head also has the eyes in it, but the basic shape is near-identical between them.
tbf the sonic team logo is also sonic's stock icon, and reusing the same thing twice kinda removes the extra points it gets for that
Plus, in addition, that Sonic head at that angle is often used to represent extra lives in Sonic games
I feel like there are just too many other good symbols that could be used for Sonic. A ring might be too basic, but like, come on, it's the game with rings! Every single game in the series as far as I'm aware. Another good option could be the gem shape, though that only really references to the chaos emeralds.
@@KingBobXVII disagree. I would've expected they used the sonic team logo rather than just a flat silhouette, but anything else just seems not nearly as recognizable. A ring? Sure, but it's not a good symbol to symbolize the series as a whole? An emerald? Even less so. Maybe the emblem used to represent the title screens of the early games, but that would seem unrecognizable to most.
@@KingBobXVI hard disagree. The Ring is not distinctive enough. It would basically be a hollow circle. As for the Emerald, I feel like that's not 'iconic' enough. Rings and Emeralds are shapes that are connected to Sonic, but aren't unique to Sonic.
The FF symbol actually carries more meaning than what it seems at first.
The Final Fantasy series is notorious for not having a symbol used throughout all games. Yes, there are popular symbols like the Meteor, but usually these types of logos only apply to one game.
However, the FF logo was, at one point, used for the GBA ports of Final Fantasy games; the whole project was called "Finest Fantasy for Advance."
So while it may appear that they just picked the font used in all Final Fantasy games and reduced the franchise's name to its initials, it actually refers to the fact that Final Fantasy is no longer exclusive to Nintendo. Thus, the logo they chose to use in Smash Bros. is one used exclusively in games made specifically for a Nintendo system.
Also for fans of Final Fantasy, FF is pretty iconic. FF in that font, that’s honestly all you need.
Absolutely agree. Because of how different they are from game to game, it would be hard to pick any other symbol to represent all of Final Fantasy. The Buster Sword, for example, only really covers VII. However, the series has been consistently presenting its titles with that font specifically.
17:38 The Snake in Smash Bros. is a composite of Solid and Naked. Besides the beard, he has a 1-in-6 chance of using the C3 from MGS3 instead of Solid’s C4.
It is stated that the Snake in Smash is explicitly Solid Snake, but he does borrow elements from Naked Snake, though they could feasibly have been things Solid Snake could've had. In addition to those you said, his F-Smash uses an RPG-7 which Naked Snake has in MGS3, as well as having him occasionally comment when eating food items like in that game.
That said Solid Snake has had a beard in MGS2 even if not a full beard, and the Codec Calls use Solid Snake's support team.
@@ManuCarrotman312 They do refer to him as “Solid Snake” in the trophy and unlock descriptions, but it never made sense to me to interpret Smash Snake, at least as he appears in Brawl, as purely an adaptation of Solid. Too many details don’t fit, the FOX logo is just the bow on top. The square camo is another example
@@wesshiflet2214 The FOX logo I reckon was used because they wanted a recognizable icon and at the time MGS3 was the latest title, and a very successful one at that. I bet the logo wouldn't have changed had Kojima and Konami stayed in good terms, but honestly I do like the ! more, it's more iconic and broad to the whole series.
And the camo pattens, to be fair they do fit as alternate costumes and Smash is used to use color palettes to reference other characters, so you could say all of Snake's alts (minus his black one in Ultimate based off MGS4) reference Naked Snake.
Overall I'm pretty sure they still meant for it to be Solid Snake, just taking things from Naked Snake that aren't entirely out of the realm of possibility for Solid to have realistically so it can represent the franchise a bit better.
the initials DK in that specific font & rotation appear all over the Donkey Kong series, much like a logo based on text, lots of games have bananas or barrels but the DK logo is very easily recognizable as meaning Donkey Kong
edit: same with Wario’s W, though the case for the Wario bomb is better than that for barrels or bananas
also extremely pedantic correction but the pieces of the triforce arranged in a mitsuuroko symbol actually first appeared in one drawing from the manual of Zelda II: the Adventure of Link
Yeah that's one of the only initial symbols that works, it really is everywhere in the games
Yeah, it has high practicality but arguably low aesthetic, being that it is just letters. Probably not f tier.
I think “letters = lazy” is an ironically lazy take. It ignores the possibility of the letters and their stylization being established and suitable to the series they are meant to represent. There’s a difference between the symbol just being an initialism and the symbols being an established icon of the series
@@user-ow1bc4sx2r yeah i was thinking that around the time he put "FF" in F tier. Sure, there are a lot of things about Final Fantasy games that are iconic to THOSE SPECIFIC GAMES, but what does the Buster Sword have to do with Final Fantasy 4 that the FF logo they've been using in other places for a long time doesn't?
@@PsychoSoldier01 I mean, it's just Final Fantasy 7 content that's represented in Smash. I think the Buster Sword or Meteor would've been fine.
I've always had a problem with the pokeball symbol- not so much its use, but it's coloring, or rather the empty space. because the red used is a darker shade than, well, white, the pokeball symbol has always looked like it was upside-down, at least to me
Personally, I don't necessarily interpret the negative space as dark. If the symbols exclusively (or at least primarily) appeared over dark backgrounds it would make sense to design them with "negative space = dark" in mind, but that isn't really the case. You see them in the character select screen, where the colored part is darker than the background in 4 out of 5 games. They also appear in the stage select screen (except in melee), and here 2 games have the negative space be brighter while 2 have it darker. And during a match it is completely dependent on the stage and position of the camera. All of this to say: It varies.
When the negative space is to be interpreted as a color, I find either black or white to be more natural than anything else, which makes the pokémon symbol perfectly sensible. That said it does make the yoshi symbol a bit jarring, which I suppose serves to prove that my view is no less subjective or flawed.
One aspect of the pokéball design I appreciate is that it works great with player colors. Each player has a differently colored top half while the bottom half stays the same, mirroring how different pokéball types are distinguished by the color and decoration on the top half while the bottom half is usually just white. Some player colors yield pokéball types that exist (or at least simplified versions of them), and the ones that don't at least look like pokéballs that _could_ exist, and I just find that neat.
I always prewferred the older Pokéball icon. On pretty much all Pokéball icons in the official games - including ones with just black/white colouring - there's always a distinct line in the middle of the Pokéball, splitting the two sections. The old icon has the distinct line, while the new icon does not. Even the icon in Legends Arceus (visible on the save screen) - which is almost IDENTICAL to the newer Smash icon - has the distinct line.
Though yeah, the newer icon also feels like it's upside-down, too.
The Wario icon could have also been his nose with his moustache, a pretty iconic and common Wario thing, plus it works for Wario Ware and Wario Land.
A mild defense of FF, the name final fantasy was chosen specifically so that they could have a name that could be shortened into an iconic two letters, (i believe this was inspired by people shortening dragon quest to DQ) so for a series that differs so much between the games, i think it kinda makes sense to summarize them all by the title, since that's essentially the one unifying thing between them. I'm not really a final fantasy fan though, so I'm sure someone else could come up with something that better represents the series as a whole.
To add to your comment, the Final in Final Fantasy was used because if the first Game didn‘t sell well, that would have been the last Game from Squaresoft
So the Title is definitely important.
Another idea I had for a series icon would have been a Crystal but that would only really represent the first few FF Games and not the whole series. Not to mention the FF Crystals look very similar to Zelda‘s Rupees so some people would probably get a bit confused
@@boredgoddesstori6635 i think this was actually recently shown to be untrue sadly. They had originally planned to name it Fighting Fantasy but couldn't for copyright reasons.
one extra cool aspect of the R.O.B. symbol that was pointed out in the Brawl Dojo is that it incorporates both the Gyromite, and the Subspace Emissary logo simultaneously, which is really cool since R.O.B. had a massive role in Subspace, and retroactively became one of the most recognisable aspects of The Subspace Emissary
phenomenal job fitting in the phrase "literally 1984"
not once but twice too. gave me a good chuckle
@@chloeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee too many e
@@chloeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenot enough e
i personally consider it to be just the right amount of e
@@chloeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee A debatably appropriate amount of e
I think the minecraft symbol is specifically meant to imply the grass block, hence why the top is filled in to contrast with the sides. The grass block is used in a lot of places where minecraft needs iconography (the desktop icon has often been a grass block, the website's favicon is a grass block, etc)
Absolutely baffled about the DK one. That has been Donkey Kong's logo for decades, it very clearly is the initials for "Donkey Kong", and even DK himself uses the logo on his tie. Makes it look like you've never heard of Donkey Kong before.
Final Fantasy's font has become so iconic that if you see the "FF" then you'll know what it's from. Definitely lower tier, but based on how well it accomplishes its job I'd give it a D at lowest. Same with Street Fighter, with the arcade cabinet design. Donkey Kong Country uses the letters as collectibles, so that also works. Plus it's on his tie. I feel like "letters = lazy" is only partially true, sometimes it is the most recognizable way to represent an entire series. Good video though
It is kind of weird thou considering Final Fantasy 7 specifically has that comet design in it's logo which was like as perfect as possible to denote the series considering it's literally just FF7 in smash and Persona had no issue using a symbol specific to only a single entry even when it does include stuff from other games.
@@Whispernyanthe Phantom Thieves logo is goated let's be honest, it should've been A tier
@@Whispernyan True, it's not like there are any other FF characters playable in Smash
Its also a bit hypocritical that he said that could have done any other design for FF, and then just showed the buster sword when he complained that Fire Emblem and Xenoblade were bad bc they were just swords
even if you didn't want to use the meteor silhouette for seven specifically (which, given that it's a pretty extensive subseries, i think is warranted), there's two different shapes of crystal that would be pretty quickly recognizable as ff imagery specifically
22:58 Common misconception. Pac-Man's mouth has always gone further from the center. (See: Pac-Man's sprite in his debut game)
The Monado (or the idea of it) is literally the most important thing not only in the original Xenoblade game, but in the entire series. Not to mention the fact that it's design is completely unmistakable at any size. It should be at least A
Well, if you wanna get into it, I’d argue that the trinity processors and conduit/Zohar is more important than the Monado I. The Monado I is the most iconic, but not the most important
@@tylercoon1791 Plot-wise, sure those are more important to the events of the games, but in terms of the central message of the entire series, the ideas the Monado represents are all of it. And when I say Monado, I mean everything that functions as the same role as the Monado from the first game, as each of those also develop the themes that it introduced, these things being the Aegises and Lucky Seven. The Monado I is just the most recognizable visual for those ideas. Even Xenoblade X shares the ideology the Monado represents, despite not having a literal equivalent in the story. The Trinity Processor and the Conduit haven't really been developed enough in this series to really mean anything, as most of what we know about them comes from Xenogears and Xenosaga. This isn't a problem for the games, as the whole point of every Xeno game after Gears is to expand on the ideas it had in ways it never could, but for Xenoblade alone, which is what Smash is trying to represent, the Monado is the best choice.
@@photonbreak9158 the _concept_ of a Monado is the most important thing lore-wise, sure. But the icon isn’t the concept of a Monado, it’s Zanzas Monado I. Now, if it were Shulks Monado, as Shulk was the only XBC character in Smash until the Pyra/Mythra DLC, I’d be singing a different tune.
@@tylercoon1791 I understand what you mean, but the fact remains that the Monado I is the most recognizable version of the sword, therefore, the best candidate for an icon for the series. It gets the same message across without being something that only people who are already fans of the series recognize.
My two cents. The Monodo is the most important symbol in the main Xeno*blade* (1,2,3) franchise, the Conduit/Zorhar is the most important symbol in the Xeno (Gears, Saga) franchise. (X does halfsies with both)
I think the Monado is the better choice for Smash because currently it’s only representing the Xenoblade franchise, but if KOS-MOS were to be in the next Smash then it’d be fitting to change the icon to the Conduit/Zorhar since it’s now representing the entire Xeno franchise.
I think I would place the Kirby logo, Pikmin logo, and second Merso Gear logo all in S tier.
There's something immensely appealing to me about the fact that they are extremely simple and generic symbols at their core (star, glower, exclamation mark), but that the style in which they are draw is enough to set them appart and symbolize the series they're from.
If I see a rounded star I think Kirby. Little five petsl flower? Pilmin. And of course that blocky exclamation mark is Metal Gear.
Extremely simple, extremely effective.
I think the Pac Man logo facing to the left reads well since that's how it appears as the life counter in the arcade game
That and Pac-Man's spirte actually does open that far.
And also he starts in that position when you start a new board or life. i think. i'm not checking to make sure i'm right, i'm just trusting my memory on this one
And most icons are facing left if they have a direction
I think you were overly critical of the initials DK and FF which are iconic to their series and the stars of Kirby and KoF. Each time an alternative was mentioned was appreciated, not just that surely there must be some alternative. Case to me the SF Street Fighter one has the initials I’d be the most critical of, but it’s probably to not be yet another fist. Hadouken is a generic fireball. Ryu’s headband might be my best bet in the end. I just think you rewarded abstract symbols too much and didn’t for straightforward ones, especially series with iconic initialization.
The hadouken isn't just a fireball, it's pretty consistently been an image of the user's hands made of pure ki, flying into the opponent's face... but well the fact that you really have to look into it to see it doesn't exactly make it iconic
@@ExeloMinishalso that's only true for Ken
I disagree that FF is iconic to Final Fantasy. Sure, it is the initials and the font used in the title screens, but it's not... iconic. That said, the problem with Final Fantasy is that while each game has its own iconography, there isn't a whole that that represents the whole series. Maybe a sillhouette of a Moogle or Chocobo. Or, lean into Final Fantasy 7 directly with the Meteor.
@@pkmnfrk That font with the elongated F looked iconic to me having not been so familiar with the series in depth. It’s the kind of series where the general themes carry on while the cast is ever-changing. 7 specifically could’ve even made do with the Buster Sword; it was the entry to make it into the game at face value. If the thing was on title screens it’s iconic. I’m sure of that much.
It’s almost like jan Misali is using vexillological criticisms or something
26:27 I think the symbolism of these three shapes is the common geometric primitives of the cone, the cube, and the sphere. These symbols are strongly associated with 3D modeling programs and game development tools, including level editors. So it makes sense, but it's a bit... inside baseball, to say the least.
The thing about the Fire Emblem logo is that Marth is really the only character that uses a sword called Falchion that looks like that. The Falchion Chrom and Lucina use is supposedly the same but it looks completely different, and then there's Alm from FE2/FE15 who also uses a sword called Falchion but that looks slightly different and exists at the same time as Marth's (so they're definitely not the same sword). The Falchion doesn't even exist in the rest of the series
You could argue that the series could be represented instead by the Fire Emblem itself, but what it is varies widely between games. For Marth it's a shield with gemstones, for Roy it's the big red gem in the hilt of his sword, for Byleth it's another way of referring to his crest, etc etc
I can't think of a symbol that could properly represent the whole series, so since Marth has a lot of "being the first MC" privileges already I guess the Falchion symbol is fine
Ok but Sakurai choose Falchion because it makes a cameo in Kirby Superstar.
(Source : me)
Also, not that it matters for Smash Ultimate but Alear is the Fire Emblem in Engage so his silhouette will be fun to note if Alear makes it into a future smash game and they take the route of “Fire Emblem characters are depicted with the logo of the Fire Emblem from their game”.
@@iantaakalla8180 They'd use the Fire engraving symbol in that case, Alear's silhouette isn't recognizable
I interpreted the subspace emissary logo as being like a foil to the main smash logo. Instead of there being 2 lines, dividing the logo into 4 sections, there’s just 1 line which doesn’t even divide the logo. This symbolizes how the smash bros cast of characters is, at least by the end of the subspace emissary, no longer divided, and are all United and fighting against 1 threat.
Ok
ohh i like that. instead of multiple (often four) parties clamoring to come out on top, there's one side the player(s) will want to succeed in Subspace
I also want to point out the fact that it is an empty circle aside from that single dash.
Unlike the Smash logo, representing the excitement of the crossovers through the cross, The Subspace Army is a collection of empty husks created by shadows, with the dash possibly representing the small silver of the army that proves it isn’t completely evil (The R.O.B. Squad)
Is this an inside joke that I'm not in on, or is everyone deliberately not mentioning the fact that it's literally the head of the Mite enemy.
Subspace also represents the singular aspect of the campaign. Where the smash logo represents an arena divided between 4 combatants of variety, Subspace is all in one, meant for one.
Fun thing about the kingdom hearts symbol. Is that if you look at the negative space of sora's default keyblade. It creates the shape of this crown. It's not that the crown itself is the teeth of the key. It's that the teeth of the key create the crown shape.
"Ugh it's just a sword" - from man who then suggests that the FF symbol should be a sword.
To be fair, the Cloud sword is a LOT more recognizable than the Fire Emblem one, since it has an irregular shape which makes it more distinguishable
@@Lemonpie. Well, to be fair, the rest of the video keeps arguing that the symbols should be repsentative of the series as a whole, not just one game in the series.
So suggesting the sword is even more weird in that case as it only applies to ff7. I'm not saying I can think of something better that relates to the series as a whole, maybe a moogle, or a disembodied spiky anime hair style?
@@AirsickDolphin Me personally I disagree with misali's opinion on the FF being a bad represrntation, I just understand his argument of deeming the blaster sword more recognizable than a "generic sword".
@@Lemonpie. Yea that's true.
@@AirsickDolphin a crystal, should have been the series logo.
It's a small thing, but I admire your comment at the very end. Mr. Sakurai is incredible and responsible for much of the core identity of the Smash series, but the games themselves are made by so many other people. While Sakurai works with all the teams as a game director, I've always found it strange how Smash fans act as if he makes the games by himself. Everyone deserves credit.
The ARMS fist has a spring at the wrist. It's a great representation for a boxing game whose main gimmick is characters with spring *arms*.
I think its okay that some of these symbols have text on them. Give the Mii series for example. The Mii logo itself is already iconic enough that it can shrinked down with the same text and still be read the same, or how despite street fighter's text looks very stylistic enough to where you can get the sense of fighting game enery from it.
The Mii logo has 2 of the letter i in it, and I believe those are meant to be symbolic of Miis, with the torso and head. Also yeah that text style of the word Mii is how it's been used whenever Miis have been used as far as I can remember, including in games like Mario Kart that used them. I think the only real alternative would be to use the default Mii face but then you run into the "problem" of it just being the character's face, like Sonic or Pacman (problem is in in quotation marks here because I don't think there was anything wrong with the Sonic logo, and the Pacman one was good, but jan didn't like Sonic's, and I wouldn't like the Mii icon to be a Mii face instead of The Mii Logo).
Sorry for the long comment reply, I just also wanted to defend the Mii logo.
@@crano8202thry are , the point on the "i"'s usually have a smiley face on them to represent the head
yeah how the fuck else are you supposed to represent miis as a whole when the whole idea of a mii is a character that looks like you. that mii criticism was pretty stupid
Bro wanted the SF logo to be ➡️⬇️↘️
sakurai really did such a good job hand-drawing these symbols
I can't believe Sakurai developed smash brothers on his own all by himself
truly a genius of our time
I mentioned this in the live chat, But I'm pretty sure the logo for Minecraft is a grass block specifically.
In addition to the fact that that block is the only one that's a uniform color on all of its sides* and a different uniform color on its top, the grass block is one of the first things you see in the game itself and before you even boot the game in the form of the game's icon.
It is fair to point out though, It being just a generic block is basically fine and the extra uniform color over the top is just the way to make it look more distinct as opposed to being like a wireframe of a cube. But still, grass block, definitely!
* Obviously the detail shaving for a logo would trim out the side grass lol
ive also always interpreted it as a grass block. and yeah i think it works perfecty for the reasons youve said
I always thought the sides were partially filled in, but I realize now that it's just the isometric perspective
I like to think it's a little bit of both, like it's meant to evoke the dirt block but it could be anything. They could've added more detail to make it more specifically that iconic grass, but the decision to keep it minimal is A Choice, and I absolutely love that confidence.
I still think that the symbol should've been a creeper
In my own comment pointing this out, I recalled back to the console Minecraft's Plastic Texture Pack and its simplicity, which appears to be replicated in the Smash design. it's good that I'm not the only one to point that out.
I think the FF icon for Final Fantasy is really fitting, actually. It's in the immediately-recognizable Final Fantasy title font, and for a series that is (both in English and Japanese) referred to as just "FF" constantly. While the representation in Smash is only FF7, they deliberately wanted to leave it open for other titles as well, so something like the Buster Sword or Meteor would restrict it to just representing FF7. You could do a chocobo, but I'm not sure how well that'd translate to a simple sprite.
I agree, and something that makes this symbol even better is the fact that the initials of the title were chosen before the title itself.
I think a stylized crystal would be the "main" symbol for the series, and for smash a chocobo would also work as it blends well with the less than serious vibes of the crossover
Still think they should have went for the meteor.
Moogle, kupo
I would've gone with a cactuar because it’s similarly recognizable to a chocobo and reads better at a small scale, but yeah, FF is easily the least egregious example of letters-as-a-symbol.
The Tekken series symbol actually does have a bit of meaning, the angle the fist is roughly the same angle that one of the series' most iconic attacks, the Electric Wind God Fist, is at when performing it.
EWGF is so famous in the series that any Tekken fan could recognize it from just a glance, especially considering it's Kazuya's gloved fist doing it. I think that makes it a really good pick for a Tekken symbol that isn't just the series logo.
A shame you slowly stopped giving alternative symbol ideas as the video goes on
For Mega Man, I probably would've chosen either an outline of his helmet (maybe a bit too on the nose) or his arm cannon, which could then be applied to any of the other Mega Man series since they all use some variation of the arm cannon.
An E-tank could work too
Amen to the Mega Buster. The Mega Man symbol should be F tier, you could not see that gear and immediately tell it’s Mega Man.
The use of a fist to represent the Tekken series is sensible, considering that its title literally means "Iron Fist". The particular glove worn on the fist is also worn by both Kazuya and his son Jin.
Otherwise pretty solid list.
The problem isn't that a fist is a bad symbol for Tekken, ARMS, or Punch-Out; it's not. The problem is that Smash as a whole needs distinct symbols for Tekken, ARMS, and Punch-Out, which is difficult when they're all fists.
I think they 3 fists logos are fines.
He just hates fists and it is his vid
@@timothymclean I argue that the fists are distinct enough based on angle.
I do agree that Jin/Kaz’s glove is very recognizable as tekken. It’s literally the first thing seen in the Bandai logo before tekken trailers and such.
@@timothymcleanit’s a boxing glove coming towards the screen like logo and the enemies in Punch Out. An arm with a spring coming out the back for ARMS, and Kazuya’s glove representing the Iron Fist tournament. They are all great and perfectly represent the series as a whole rather than pulling out something that only represents one character for the “benefit” of being more distinct rather than emblematic of their franchise
the pikmin series's flower isn't just a generic flower, and it's more than just the flower of the pikmin themselves. it's Chaenostoma cordatum. i know that it *looks* like the generic image of an "ideal" flower but it (and the pikmin's flowers, respectively) are modeled after a real, actual flower. and if i wanted, i could read into that, and say how part of pikmin's thematic identity is it's connections to our world and to "real life" nature, how it makes us want to pay more attention to the small things we usually stride past from our tall human perspectives. copium tbh
It doesn't matter what your symbol is supposed to look like; if people looking at it can't distinguish between your symbol and a generic flower, it's a generic flower.
I appreciate that its accurate to the flowers of the series, but its doesn't distinguish itself as being for that series enough. I think it should have a stem and be shown at an angle that makes it sort of like a P shape or be the P with all the Pikmin forming it like on the boxart. Or even a silhouette of a Pikmin under the flower (though I'm sure they didn't do this because it wouldn't represent ALL 3 basic Pikmin, since the Yellow would have distinguished ears even in silhouette. I think this makes it more interesting to look at as well. PLUS, the symbol as is, is Daisy's symbol in Mario already, so if they were to give characters their own specific symbols rather than series ones, then Pikmin would need to be distinguished anyways. Even if they don't, people would still get them mixed up since the Pikmin series doesn't use that flower as a symbol as much, so its not as connected.
@@timothymclean it's not Chaenostoma cordatum's fault it happens to look like what the average person might consider generic. you can argue from a pure graphic design perspective it is not ideal and i would not disagree but i think "taking the hit" in that sense is worth it for how otherwise perfect it is.
@@lullaboid jan Misali isn't criticizing the flower, he's criticizing Nintendo. And Nintendo not only chose to base Pikmin flowers off of a generic-looking one, they separately chose to use those generic flowers as the Smash symbol for Pikmin.
if normal people just see the triforce as 3 triangles, does that make it a bad design? The flower being a representation of the nature in PIKMIN as well as the flower PIKMIN grow makes so much sense
On the subject of the Fire Emblem symbol, there really isn’t any good option. The Falchion only appears in 5 out of 17 games and was redesigned three times.
The titular Fire Emblem does appear in almost every game but it has no consistent appearance since it’s just a name given to an important object in each game.
Something that is consistent and important across each game is dragons, but that would still be pretty generic.
ive tried to think of a single visual element constant throughout the series but there literally isn't one at all. But still they could have done better than Marth's Falchion. It's not even an iconic weapon anymore, Chrom and Lucina's Falchion is way more iconic and recognizable, as is the Yato or the Sword of the Creator. All of who's wielders are all playable in smash. But genuinely the only thing the series may have is doing an "FE" in the font that the games have used for their logos since Awakening. But even then it doesn't work like Final Fantasy's FF does because in Japanese the name's written in Japanese, not English like final fantasy. So really there's no good answers and they should have just made their icon a guy shrugging
also not every game even has dragons. Loptous isn't directly present in Genealogy of the Holy War, only mentioned and had his powers channeled. And there aren't any dragons in Thracia 776.
@@ninjabunny9526 I think the reason Marth's falchion is used is because it might be the only aesthetic logo-suitable signifier that unites both kaga and post-kaga (considering shadow dragon)
@@smidlem1117 I don't think Nintendo cares about kaga at all lul. It's probably Marth's Falchion because the series doesn't have an easy icon and they made it his Falchion originally and can't think of anything to change it to. Since my comment tho I've decided that my pick would be five health ticks from the older games. Three that were filled in and two that were empty outlines. I think that would best represent the whole series and is the closest thing it has to iconography. Plus it's already in smash with Marth and Lucina's final smash so people who don't play fire emblem or only played the newest ones would still know what it is.
Best I can think of is the Heroes logo but that might be too esoteric in practice
Isn't there a Falchion in 7 games? (1-3,11-13,15). I know they're not all the same blade, but they are all Falchions nonetheless. Regardless, I think it's important to look at when the symbol was added to Smash: Only fe1-5 existed at the time of Melee, with fe6 on the way. There is also the Tyrfing in fe4 which has the same design as the og Falchion, so the shape of that sword being the symbol kinda made sense at the time.
Really interesting that you gave two simple and understandable baselines by which you'd judge all the icons then went on to be as inconsistent as possible
Oh fuck okay I did not know I needed this until now. Like I absolutely expected one of the dedicated smash channels to do something like this, maybe Panda woulda back in the day or something, but jan Misali tackling this topic… you’re the PERFECT person for this
The block used for Minecraft's Smash representation isn't *just* a block; it's the block that has been used as the desktop icon until just recently, that block being the Grass Block. The way it's represented here is in perfect simplicity, and can even be a reference to one of Minecraft's console texture packs, the Plastic Texture Pack. This texture pack gives it the exact same basic, low detail look with just a solid bit of brown and a thin layer of solid green on the top. This look is noticeably mirrored in the logo, keeping the simplicity of the Plastic Texture Pack while keeping the original Grass Block desktop icon angle. Absolutely an S tier, the symbolism of being a block so recognizable you see it before even deciding to load the game, as well as being distinct enough that the limited simplicity doesn't hinder its recognizability, is all it takes to make a good symbol here.
Okay sure. But
Why would they not use the creeper face?? A million times more adequate in every way, imo
@@pdrt2377 The creeper doesn't really stand for everything Minecraft is. It's iconic, yes, but remember, these logos are supposed to represent a series, like the triforce represents literally everything about LoZ, from the characters to the plot, and the creeper doesn't do that as well as the grass block. For one, yhe creeper can just not appear in Peaceful mode, and someone that has never played in any other difficulty may not even know what a creeper is unless they have seen it from another source. Remember, these symbols are not just meant to be iconic, but represent many things about the game. The creeper, when boiled down, is just an enemy. The grass block, being the thing used to represent the entire game on the desktop, is way more iconic than the creeper. Sure, the creeper has become the new desktop icon, but that's only because of how much popularity the creeper has, not that it actually holds significance on its own.
@@nurfboy7635 I kind of disagree. The creeper face is even in the logo of the game, I don't think there is a single thing more Minecraft than it.
We can disagree on it though, let's not dwell on it for too long
@@pdrt2377 Fair enough.
I prefer the grass block aesthetically but the creeper face better communicates the brand of Minecraft™️. Minecraft is not the only voxel based game and was not even the first, a block is not uniquely Minecraft. The smash icon in specific does not even include the details that allow for it to be recognized as a Minecraft grass block, it just became a generic block. The creeper face can communicate its identity with far less detail.
I feel like the Persona icon could've been a tarot card if it wanted to represent the overall series, or Jack Frost if it wanted to represent the entire SMT series
A butterfly would have also been good for the persona series!!
@@getrope4209correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the butterfly only really used for the save points? I've only played P4G btw
@samt3412 Well, in the earlysonas, butterflies are used to represent philemon (igors boss, and manifestation of the goodness of humanity (?)) And the velvet room in general. It's there at the beginning of p5 where's it's like "you're playing an unjust game..." or something. They've been present throughout the whole series, unlike the PT logo. Sorry if this sounds stupid, I am v tired :)
I feel like the velvet room “v” logo would’ve been sufficient representation the persona series as a whole
How simple the symbols are means that a tarot card would just be a rectangle
The letters for street fighter have so much style and character to them though. They look like they could be grafiti, or a martial arts belt, both important thematic elements in Street Fighter, the game about fighting on the streets.
they shoulda zoomed in to just the topmost two spires of dracula's castle. that weird archiecturally imposible offshooting one is easily one of the most distinctive parts of the castle's design and it would have done a lot to simplify while staying recognizable
Perhaps that would work, maybe they could make it the impossible staircase bridging the one spire to Dracula's spire to make it even more important and iconic.
a cross or an axe would have fit better too, i think
One thing i will note about the three fist icons:
- The Punch Out fist is a boxing glove
- The ARMS fist has a spring at the back end of it
- The Tekken fist is a style of glove that several characters in the games use, notably Kazuya and Jin
I dont think these are ideal, but i do think theyre more distinct than you give them credit for. Especially Tekken and Arms, but for all three of these i think if you showed me the icon and asked me what series it was from id be able to guess correctly.
When they described the Arms symbol as "a closed fist" I was like, "no, come on, you gotta at least give credit to the stylization of it and the elegant conveyance of the springiness from the arm." It's like you said, each of these three is more unique and distinct from the others than a star or a couple letters can be.
I like Tekken’s, I feel Punch Out could be 2 Boxing Gloves colliding like the logo from Wii, why ARMS’ logo isn’t the announcer, Biff I think his name is, baffles me.
The arms fist should be ranked higher
The spring symbolizes the whole gimmick of the game which is extending ur arms in spring-like fashion (some characters can be exempt from this but for most of the cast this remains true)
i feel like punch-out!! and especially arms's logos are fine since they visually represent the defining characteristics of their franchises. i don't know much about tekken so i don't know if its logo is significant, but it's definitely distinct enough from punch-out!! and arms's to tell the difference at a glance
I take issue with the idea of even counting punch out as part of this list of "fists" because... it's not a fist, it's a boxing glove. if they added tom brady from madden 09 to super smash bros and made his symbol a football helmet, would people really say "i dont get it?? his logo is just a head. why is it a head? everyone in this game has heads. bad logo."
The Smash emblems were always really fascinating to me, especially how they try to represent such large franchises and characters with such small images.
The Monado could be higher I think, its literally the most iconic symbol of the first Xenoblade. Its the main focus of the games cover, its the title screen, its the loading symbol, its the weapon shulk uses for most of the game. There is no better choice.
It's only mainly in the 1st game, and with the context of representing the series as a whole, it just doesn't work.
Saying it works for Xenoblade chronicles 2, just, no, shulk has been reduced to a dlc blade, most casual players likely won't even see him.
The 'iconic swords' become redundant in the next entry, it's the same case as fire emblem.
Although, you could make the argument that because shulk was the only Xenoblade character before ultimate, the monado makes sense. I honestly give it a pass for smash ultimate, because you can't really change a logo halfway through a game's life.
Xenoblade has 4 games now. it really needs to change for the next smash game
Tl;Dr: logo doesn't make sense for any other Xenoblade game beside the original
I really like how you start with an objective description of each symbol and then say what it’s supposed to represent.
My favorite youtube niche is highly specific and passionate videos and jan keeps pumping them out.
Me too!
REAL
We’ll you’ve found the right channel
always funny when people refer to mitch as jan
@@RichConnerGMNEspecially because of what jan means in toki pona
The “haha, 1!” joke was gloriously subtle
so subtle i don't even know where it is. what's the timestamp?
@@daveslamjam 18:31
I'd say the most iconic thing for Wario would be Wario's nose and moustache. It's been used as an icon in its own right repeatedly throughout the Warioware games, but is also obvious in referring to Wario even without knowing anything about the games.
I thought the Sonic head choice was pretty accurate and on point, though not for just being Sonic's head but also for being Sonic Team's logo since Sonic Adventure, I believe.
As for Tekken, there really wasn't a logo they could easily use for Kazuya besides his gloves. There was the Mishima Zaibatsu insignia but he hasn't run that since Tekken 2 or the Devil Gene tattoo but that's his son's thing. The gloves are one of his key features to the point where his son inherited those gloves in the third game before unsurprisingly turning on them and the entire idea of being a Mishima. It's a story thing, real fun. Oh, and the name of the tournament in the Tekken series is literally "The King of the Iron Fist".
EDIT: Oh, right. There's the kanji that have been a part of the Tekken logo title. Maybe they just didn't want to use what's essentially a character of the Japanese language, dunno.
Perhaps a Chaos Emerald would have been a better choice for the Sonic universe logo.
I still think the Zaibatsu logo would work fairly well, as not only is it a big force in the Tekken universe, but it’s also hosted a good few of the Iron Fist tournaments (maybe even all of them. IDK, I’m not THAT familiar with Tekken)
@@SebaS_ok Probably not? Strip away the colours and they'd just be generic diamond shapes.
@@seansilv25 All tournaemnts were hosted by the Mishima Zaibatsu as far as I can recall but they've been run by Heihachi more often than not although Jin had a stint with it after 5, which led to the sixth game.
For comparison, Kazuya's been running their rival (G Corporation) since either Tekken 5 or 6 I believe.
I think the Wario logo would kinda work if you made the W into a stylized take on Wario's face. Like, maybe a nose with a mustache under it that forms the W
That actually is the series symbol really, its surprising that wasn't what got used, though I can only guess that they thought that Nose symbol was too connected to the WarioWare series, since the earlier Land series never had it (but the later ones might have?). The W they used is specifically ONLY used on his hat and gloves and isn't even the one in the logos for the games (which is livelier with a slant to it). So in that case they must have thought it better represented all his series uniformly without bias to one or the other?
I don't understand how garlic, Wario's equivalent to the mushroom, wasn't the choice.
30:33 this statement caused me to imagine a world where for the series symbol for Dragon Quest, they just used the Dairy Queen logo with no explanation. That was a funny thought.
Ive never had my faith shaken in jan more than while watching this video
Jan Misali doing a Smash Video? He does such a wide variety of concepts. Math, Linguistics, Gaming, and Internet History. This is 100% why I am Subscribed
all of these topics are things i absolutely enjoy, that is why i've watched just about every video of his.
Also “here’s tree”, the most important video on the channel.
surely they could have used a pair of hammers for ice climbers! it would fit so well!
also the ARMS logo very clearly has some dashed bits on the end of the fist to indicate its being extended, and it helps communicate better the concept of the game, i think its far better than the other two punch logos, honestly
13:44 It took me up until now to realize the reason why Game & Watches are so working class themed is because Game & Watches were intended for workers riding public transportation waiting to be driven to or from work.
The arms symbol does try to set itself apart a little by including some of the games iconic spring arm design below the wrist, but it definitely doesn't go far enough. The spring arm should've been a much bigger focus, they're a huge part of the style and gameplay in arms!
as a splatoon nerd, the splatoon logo is definitely an s tier. its not super distinct but squids stylized in this specific way are used all over the place in splatoon. really couldnt have been anything better.
Something was missing in the world before this was uploaded, and now I realize it was Jan Misali’s opinion on the Smash Bros symbols. You patched the long-hollow hole in my heart with this endeavor, and for that, I am forever grateful. Thank you for producing the most necessary video on the internet. (This video was very entertaining lol)
17:01 or, hear me out, Just use warios moustache
A design aspect about ROB's icon, that you didn't mention is that it ALSO has the Subspace Emissary logo in there, due to ROB's ties to that mode. It is something that was even pointed out on his page on the Brawl Dojo.
For Mega Man, gears are very commonly used to represent the series in Japan, similar to Kirby and stars, so there was some logic behind it.
Still though, I feel like an E tank would've worked just as well, if not better
I feel like that could be mixed up with Metroid
I think Mega Man's arm cannon would have worked the best as a symbol. Its rounded shape plus the little rectangular meter on the side would be enough to distinguish it from Samus's arm cannon while still allowing it to remain uncluttered in terms of detail. And in terms of symbolism, well... the thing that separates Mega Man from other retro platformers is that it's designed around shooting! This is not just Mega Man's primary weapon, it's the primary "verb" of the entire game, the same way jumping is in Mario.
@@pennyfarting this. exactly this.
i think all the fists are distictive enough from each other to be easily told apart and are also all fairly important symbols to their series (at least for punch-out and arms, idk about tekken)
IDK about Arms, but PunchOut has that glove symbol all over the boxart and main menu, so its instantly recognizable by anyone who played the game (and because of its age I think it should be allowed to use "generic" imagery, because it was one of the first to do so). For Tekken, while that fist has never appeared as a symbol specifically (as far as I'm aware), it still represents the iconic gloves that several of the main characters use, specifically the metal buttons in a triangle shape on the back of the hand which the symbol puts a focus on. I'm not all that familiar with Tekken, but that glove design is very much a standout design that makes sense as a symbol of the series as it always stood out to me.
@GBDupree Also Tekken literally means Iron fist, it's a perfect logo in my eyes
i love these videos and i just wanna appreciate you making and putting actual captions, always a true mark of quality for essay-form youtube videos
Tell me you've never played Donkey Kong Country without telling me you've never played it
A lot of these symbols resonate heavily with their respective fanbases and probably should count as "very recognizable," even if jan himself doesn't think so.
jan
imo what matters is that it's recognizable to *anybody,* not just fans. lots of series are in smash, and not everyone is going to know every series
@@redpup112and? just because someone who knows nothing about the series doesn't recognise the symbol doesn't mean it doesn't or shouldn't represent the series
@@redpup112How? Someone who doesn't know Sora is not gonna know what KH or its logo even are. If they don't know the character, they most likely won't recognize the logo either.
The only way I see logos as anything useful to people that don't know these characters is getting to know what other characters are from the same series.
yeah the monado especially, altough next game should definitly switch it for the conduit, which would both represent all three xenoblade game equally but also the whole xeno series
"I just cannot think of a single reason why you would classify the *Mario* Bros arcade game as a *Mario* game, but not Wrecking Crew."
Well. I can think of one reason
(great video Misali!)
Thank you! Was also thinking this lmao
I gave this some thought, and the conclusion I came to was a symbol of an 8-bit Mario head; not from _Super Mario Bros._ and specifically from _Wrecking Crew_ instead. These games are old, and an 8-bit sprite is a simple way to convey their age. I think that makes sense for the pre-"Super" _Mario_ games.
I also considered a *capital letter L* for Luigi, since _Mario Bros._ was his debut, he's also in _Wrecking Crew_ as P2, and the symbol could also be used for the Luigi's Mansion stage. However, the 8-bit Mario head--in my mind--works better for the pre-"Super" _Mario_ games; and, it could be used for the 75m stage and other pre-DKC _Donkey Kong_ content.
I loved all the little blink-or-you'll-miss-it jokes in there, like the number of fighters in the Sonic franchise. Awesome video!
"I will not spend any time explaining Kingdom Hearts"
A wise choice, mr. Misali.
I feel like it’s important to note that I believe the block in the Minecraft logo is very likely a grass block. Although they just recently changed it, a grass block viewed from that specific angle has been Minecraft’s window icon for a long long time. This idea is also supported by the top side being different from all other sides like a Minecraft grass block.
I'd like to point out that the Triforce is pretty much the exact symbol used by the Hojo Clan in ancient Japanese history. It's common knowledge in Japan, kinda like how we know Ring Around the Rosie is based on the bubonic plague.
Also, if the Mushroom logo is S-tier than so is the Yoshi egg. It's never confused for anything else, not Billy Hatcher or Pokemon eggs. Speaking of which, Game Freak's first game was Yoshi NES, which was literally called "Yoshi no Tamago" or Yoshi's Egg. The gaming industry owes a lot to that egg
Except that Ring Around the Rosie didn't actually originate from the plague, lol
@@woopi8003 If it's not about the plague, it's not about anything, which obviously isn't true.
Wtf is a ring around the rosie
12:24 Definitely two hammers. It would emphasize the duo aspect of both their home game and their appearance in Smash, and it's by far one of the most important aspects of the characters.
I'm really loving rewatching these 2018 Jan Misali Videos, although it's almost like i haven't seen this one before...