DC Coupling with the Ferrofish Pulse 16 CV and Bitwig Studio
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- The 16 channel AD/DA Pulse 16 CV has DC Coupled outputs and so I thought I'd demonstrate how to use that with Bitwig Studio to control your modular synthesizer. Meanwhile using the inputs for some multichannel modular recording.
Thanks to Synthax for lending me the Pulse 16 CV for this video. Please note the original Pulse 16 does not have DC coupled outputs - only the "CV" version has.
www.synthax.co.uk
www.ferrofish.com
Index:
Intro - 0:00
Audio Interface connections - 1:11
What is DC Coupling again? - 2:54
Pulse 16 connections - 6:41
Using the right cable - 7:40
Floating Ring Cable - 14:38
Bitwig Studio CV generation - 15:15
Modular connections overview - 15:39
CV Devices in Bitwig - 17:35
Bitwig PolyGrid - 22:28
Thoughts so far - 24:16
Multi-tracking modular - 26:32
Summing up - 31:56 - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I'm glad that the Expert Sleepers ES- products remove the need for floating ring cables and other such confusing things
Not confusing with a little research, depending on your Adat or Soundcard, you don’t always get the full voltage output..still works for modulation ;)
Really enjoyed this Robin. I liked how you kept the information relative to musicians - but gave us a taste of the technical. Really well balanced. I'm intrigued now about Bitwig - I like the idea of the CV controls it provides and am now going to check out how much it differs from Ableton Live. I've got an expert sleepers ES-8 module which does essentially the same thing, and have used it to a small extent in Ableton. I have a Behringer ADA8200 ADAT module - and they aren't very good for DC Coupled duties (some people have reported success, but I didn't).
Love this stuff. Very cool. I’ve been using Reason 11 to control my modular over ADAT via an Expert Sleepers ES-3. Works so well and I’ve not had to concern myself with all the DC coupling malarkey. Amazing to have, especially if you want to keep your modular ........ ‘sensible’ in scope! :-) A lot of the control, sequencing and modulation can come from Reason. So I need less of those devices in my Mantis case. More room for interesting noise making and mangling modules in my rather modest modular set-up. Added an ES-6 so I can go back into the computer for multi-tracking 😎
The ES-3 does seem to be the easiest way to handle controlling modular from a computer assuming you have an ADAT output. The ES-6 is also good for tracking but only has 6 inputs.... so you need the ES-7. I'd really like Expert Sleepers to do a straight ADAT in/out to 8 in/out interface so you can do both in one module - i dont know why he's never done that - seems obvious to me. Or maybe it's time for someone like Ferrofish to make one.
@@MoltenMusicTech I actually upgraded from an Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 to an 18i20 just to get the ADAT I/O! But was handy to have the extra audio I/O + it looks nicer in my rack than on the desktop :D But yes, the ES-3 was an amazing addition. I just plugged it in and it worked. No set-up, no faffing. Just point your source (CV or audio) from Reason to one of the ADAT outputs and that's it. You can even see the activity on the LED port on the ES-3 before you connect anything up. Fantastic.
It's a shame the ES-6 hasn't just got 8 inputs to match the outputs on the ES-3. The ADAT port is underneath the 6 ports so it can be squeezed into 4HP. Having 8-ports it would probably have to be 8HP, like the ES-3. But surely that's not the reason it only has 6 inputs?! I don't know. The ultimate option from Expert Sleepers would be the ES-9. But it's bloody expensive and takes up a fair bit of HP. Nice bit of kit though. Might be the one for you? Actually I've just checked and the ES-9 doesn't have ADAT. It's got SPDIF I/O instead!!! That's odd! :-/
Hi Robin. I think balanced outputs have the full signal on both outputs (tip and ring in your case) but 180 degrees out of phase from one another. I never heard that each output had only the positive or negative "half" of the signal. By having the signals out of phase you can have bigger cable lengths because, at the end, the negative phase signal is inverted and summed with the positive phase sgnal. At this step any interference induced along the way is neutralized because it'll be out of phase in the summing.
Yes, that is true. I'm trying to explain what i see when doing this DC Coupling lark and i'm having to make some conclusive jumps because good information is hard to find. I understand how balanced cables work but that's not what i've found in my testing of dc coupling on interfaces. Maybe the Pulse 16 is the first one i've tried that works properly..... but then why do floating ring cables exist and why are they sold for this purpose? So..... i'm just trying to explain what i see as best i can and welcome the discussion about it :D
Awesome video Robin! Tempts me again....my RME Fireface UFX+ has two ADATs so my mind is bogggled now. The RME equivalanet DC coupled ADAT expansion is very pricey compared to this so its defo worth me thinking about, much that I love RME.
I’m using modules from VCV via Motu 828 mk3. ..fantastic world of modulation, sequencing etc ;)
Thank you for taking the time and show the actual connectivity! i am looking to get this ferrofish so i can utilize the full potential of a Neve 8816 summing mixer (16Mono Channels) - I have just the single ADAT I/O Same as yours on An RME Babyface pro, which i like and want to keep...so according to what you explained here all I really need is to expand my ADAT I/O and set The RME Clock to master and I'm good with all 16 right?...thx stay best
30 mins and 50 seconds in sounded phat!!!
I know it is kinda randomly asking but does anybody know of a good site to watch new movies online ?
@Sean Gunner flixportal :)
@Andy Shepherd Thank you, signed up and it seems like a nice service :D Appreciate it !
@Sean Gunner you are welcome =)
nice one - great when you can find more creative applications of hardware.
incidentally - the Rane Balanced document may explain what is going on here with the floating ring? www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107
Errr... yeah, sort of :D
@@MoltenMusicTech :) maybe not!
well, there' no problem reversing the polarity of the signal to get negative values out of just +/- connection, but I guess balanced jack just adds more voltage range
@@MoltenMusicTech you should chat to Hugh R!
Thank you for sharing us this fantastic information. What website can I get this software?
Are you talking about Bitwig? Try Bitwig.com
Great video! Any idea of how can I get (or most possibly make) a DB-25 to TS snake for that? I'm using an Antelope Orion Studio that actually have 16 DC coupled outputs, but they are on two pairs of DB-25.
Google it, ask an audio store or get it custom made.
That's what the nw2s modules are for. They use balanced D25 connectors and also correctly convert levels between modular and line level, and do electronic balancing. So no special cables or offsets needed. You can use them with the Pulse 16 CV or any other DC interface with D25 (e.g. the Apollo x16)
I wish there was more units that had DC coupled out and IN - perhaps switch out the caps so it could be used for audio and cv IN ?
I think MOTU or Expert Sleepers is what you need
Exellent my friend.Can the routing software of pulse16 can be also seen in computer via adat connector(via Audio interface) as you done??Hope for an answer.Thanks.
Not sure, I only had this for the review, try asking ferofish
Hi! Is this a Pulse 16 or a Pulse 16 CV? I have the former and am trying to figure out whether I should upgrade.
Thanks!
It's the Pulse 16 CV
It´s a pitty that you can´t récord the cvs from your modular into bitwig, I do this with a Roland aíra torcido... and to output cvs I use the vermona´s qmi midi wheel channel... It´s odd I know...
what are the cons and pros of using cv throught pulse 16 vs buying a dedicated midi to cv device like sleeper doepfer dark line? I mean pulse 16 cv will be restocked in 3 months or so and i dont want to wait. I would just buy normal version of pulse16 and additional doepfer dark line and make a connection to midi throught pulse 16. Em i missing smth?
I think you're getting MIDI confused with CV. The ES8 is an audio interface - there's no MIDI involved. The Pulse 16 is useful because it expands an existing audio interface assuming it has ADAT - the ES8 can also do that. Both give you channels of CV for modulation and sequencing, and you'll need special software or plugins that can generate CV - not MIDI. The only advantage of the Pulse 16 is that it has 16 channels as opposed to 8 on the ES8 - and they are in very different forms. If you just want MIDI-to-CV then there are much simpler and cheaper options available. Does that help?
@MoltenMusicTech but on pulse 16 you do have a Midi port so you can use smth like doepfer dark link (midi to cv) or any other midi to cv converter to control modulars yes? So basically what im saying is that you can control modulars without the need of pulse 16 cv version as you can simply utilize midi port on pulse 16 standart version (with a midi to cv converter like doepfer dark link)Em I right?
@MoltenMusicTech I dint realize sleepers es8 has no midi port. I was thinking about smth like doepfer dark link midi to cv converter.
Sure, you can use any MIDI interface and a MIDI-to-CV module to control modular. But MIDI and CV are different. They are used and behave very differently with vastly different resolutions so it really depends on what you are trying to achieve. But no, you don't need a Pulse 16 if you just want midi-to-CV.
@MoltenMusicTech I'm asking becouse I don't know is it worth to wait 3 months for cv version to restock. So I was wondering if I can use midi port on normal version for cv messages. Are there any pros or cons between those two routes? Apart from having to buy external Midi to cv converter. I think external midi to cv converters should be in theory better and more robust in options then those on pulse 16 cv version. The question is it worth to have it in one box rather in two (pulse 16 + doepfer dark)
From what I'm seeing, the Pulse 16 outputs reach only 20dBu. That should correspond to roughly 8V (RMS, not peak). Isn't it a bit low for general CV control (where ideally you'd like to continuously output up to + or -10V sometimes)?
Loads of modular is +-5v, besides if something does what you need then the figures are irrelevent.
@@MoltenMusicTech yes :) but the figures are what guide you to determine what you should buy and what is likely to cause problems
@@ywenp They offer a 24dBu option on the pulse 16 lineup.
Is Ferroish related to RME in any way?
it is
you can fry your interface by using the wrong cable - this should come with a warning - with a mono (TS) cable you are effectively shorting the ring and sleeve on the output with as much as 10V dc
Wouldn't the same thing happen with audio when you plugged a mono cable into a balanced socket? And yet our equipment doesn't generally blow up. I think we're dealing with very small currents here and so frying anything is very unlikely - never heard of that happening.
@@MoltenMusicTech from the horse's (expert sleepers) mouth: A Note On Cables
In general special cables are recommended when using a DC-coupled audio interface as a source of CVs. Most audio interfaces have balanced outputs (on TRS ('stereo') jacks or XLRs), while synth CV inputs are unbalanced (usually on TS ('mono') jacks or minijacks). If you use a regular stereo or mono jack lead, you'll be shorting out one of the balanced output signals (usually the R (ring) to the S (shield)). While this probably wouldn't be a problem for normal audio use, when outputting the sustained voltages that are useful as CVs you risk damaging the interface hardware.
The usual recommendation is to make up special cables with a TRS jack at one end and a TS at the other, connecting T->T (tip to tip) and S->S (shield to shield) while leaving the R (ring) floating i.e. unconnected. Such cables can be purchased direct from Expert Sleepers - see the accessories page.
An alternative is to wire a TRS jack to two TS jacks, connecting one T->T/S->S and the other R->T/S->S. This then gives you two copies of the output CV, one of them inverted, which is particularly useful from LFOs. Note that this cable configuration is identical to that of a regular "Y" audio insert lead.
Oh well, there you go, fair enough - good tip. That's another reason for using floating ring cables although Oz does put it forward as a potential risk rather than a need for a warning sticker of imminent danger. In my experience audio interface manufacturers don't seem to know much about using CV and so the fact that you need special cables at all would be a complete surprize - they are never mentioned and Expert Sleepers are the only ones talking about it and their modules dont even need the cables.
This is now discontinued, no more cv versions
Oh, shame
Screw that and the adapters are not good telling you that since been Mastering for years even a patch bay sucks how to degrade the signal
the expert sleepers provide me 12 in 16 out with my interface for way cheaper stray to the reaper
Yes this seems like a hard way of doing something that’s long been solved by expert sleepers.
Sadly Expert Sleepers interfaces don't provide all the regular things you need on an audio interface like guitar inputs, mic inputs, monitoring software, loopback, variable sample rates, metering. The ES-9 has come a bit closer but generally their interfaces have a single purpose - which is great - but it doesn't fit well into a studio workflow, at least in my view. I wish they'd just do ADAT in/out to 8 channels in/out but to do that i need either 3 modules or the ES-8 which would have to use USB. So, while Expert Sleepers do have some solutions they are expensive and particuilar. As for adapters - this is modular, all the cabling is pretty crappy so i'm not really seeing a mini-jack to jack adapter as a weak link :D
@@MoltenMusicTech the es-8 can be used in 'standalone mode' with just Adat connected to an interface (no usb). 4 DC ins 8 outs (with the ability to expand - though which expander to get is a lot to get your head around)
Apparently boredbrain are coming out with an ADAT module shortly too, which will be interesting to see
@@MoltenMusicTech but that’s why the interface in my setup got the ES8 hook thru light pipe 12ch in and 16 ch out plus the 8ch mic or line inputs and 10 analog outs total of 20 ch in & 26ch outs that’s plenty
Too bad this Pulse16 CV has been discontinuated, it would have been a nice addition to my setup 🥲