He SABOTAGES His OWN Build Order To CONFUSE The Opponent?! | Is It IMBA Or Do I Suck
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, Harstem showcases a unique and unexpected build order in a Starcraft II match. Despite initially appearing to follow a standard strategy, Harstem makes a series of unconventional choices that throw off his opponent and ultimately lead to victory. The video title poses the question of whether these tactics are overpowered or if the opponent simply played poorly, leaving it up to the viewer to decide. Whether you're a Starcraft II player looking for new ideas or just a fan of exciting matches, this video is sure to provide entertainment and maybe even a few tips for your own gameplay.
(written by ChatGPT)
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If you really want to confuse your opponent, just gg and leave the match the moment you're scouted. They may have scouted you, but they'll never see the gg coming.
GGing to GM when ?
This is a pro gamer move, I also didn't see this coming. GG mate
To know yourself is to know the enemy, to confuse yourself is winning the battle before you even knew there was one
- Tsun Who
This comment is some serious shit. Loved it!
The enemy is the part of you which sucks.
- Sun Tzu
ROFL, EZ
- Harstem, playing off race against Sun Tzu, probably
Sun Who? Hu or Hoo? 🤔
@@kw8295 yes
I think you could reasonably replace winning with losing
Do a Beating Grandmasters with stupid stuff where you can only play Mech as a Terran against Protoss to fulfill this mans dream
Harstem would rather drink acid rather than play mech
Yeah back when I played starcraft I also "purposefully" used bad build orders to "cunfuse" my enemy it's not like I just didn't look up build orders, no it was a strategie to confuse my enemy nice to see another mastermind strategist like me beeing featured on this channle.
I’m sure the players in silver are thankful that you arent there anymore confusing them
@@trumpwonBIGLY So glad I'm bronze, I don't want to get confusen
I use bad build orders. Every unit is imba. That checks out. Logic 10/10.
i mean you can laugh but i do this in csgo and solo queued to global elite by just doing whatever i thought my opponents would least expect. pro players in sc2 sometimes just build a roach warren or whatever so that when their opponent scouts they will defend against that and then suddenly 10 mutas kill all the workers in their main base. playing optimal but predictable is not optimal.
Purerly numerical email adresses are actually extremelly common in China (well above half of the emails I'd say)
I'm surprised you've never seen one
Hamster's knowledge is always refreshing and I love reading those tips in the corners, you could put anything there and I'd read the whole thing, anyways the other issue with supply dropping, especially at your ramp is you can lose 16 supply in one pop and if that happens during defense you lose because you can't reinforce.
A Canadian?
@@nekrosis4431 I am why?
@@bencheevers6693 no, not you. Hamster also put a card in the top right saying "A Canadian?" after Harstem said "who would apologize after the waiter spilled something on him".
I found it quite funny
@@nekrosis4431 Oh right, I remember now, also can confirm.
18:30 those liberation zones are too perfectly placed for a human. This absolutely is an ai
Fun fact, about his email, it is possible the guy is Chinese. In China (This one🇨🇳) it is very common for people to have an email that consists of pure numbers.
I’m not sure how it is for the other 🇹🇼, 🇰🇷 or any other Asian country so I only speak for 🇨🇳 when I say it doesn’t mean he’s an AI
Actually, Icelin is a video uploader in china, playing grandmaster terran
9:15 - 9:30 *Artosis has disliked that.*
PepeLaugh
But Artosis dislikes everything that's protoss.
no no no, if you want to purposefully confuse your opponent, you play Bongcloud.
ahhh a fellow person of culture, i see :)
and if you want to confuse everyone, you play double bongcloud
A true man of culture!
I wonder if all this nonsense is some pro doing some challenge. Nowadays you cant take a step in the Ladder without facing Wild Pros killing us just for the likes. I can`t even imagine how the korean uThermal version must be.
A game with mech has never been wonnen... won?.. has never been winnered at hight level (c) Harstem
I am a Terran player, just wanna tell this guy that Ghost will solve all those IMBA units.
"Mech isn't viable"
Counterpoint: big, well, mechs and big tanks are cool and that obviously makes them super powerful /j
Enemy can't fight if he is busy running away scared! Illusion of power!
BGMWSS Idea:
Do what this guy did, don't use a build order, just make some random stuff and hope it confuses the other guy.
Wait, that's basically every other BGMWSS or Cheesiest man alive ever
@@spairus4492 Literally every episode he starts off with "I have a new build order..."
Or he can try to beat a Protoss with mech. That idea might be too stupid even for BGMWSS
@@anderskjaerAnd he then proceeds to say that the build order is not an actual build order, but a general idea about bluffing with some weird building placement and scouting shenanigans
Hamster including the repair cost in the skirmish's costs is hella impressive!
IceLin was actually decent after the first couple minutes. I think some Vikings for the Carriers would probably help. Also Hi-Sec, Neosteel, and a bunch of turrets.
Lol ChatGPT wrote the description too.
In Terran's defense, It's interesting to see how a single Thor can take 1/3 hp of a muta ball with single shot but 10 Thors can't clear those little interceptors for entire fight.
His thors where in single target mode, switch them to AA rockets and all the interceptors will disappear.
It's a micro thing I suppose. As Interceptors fly circles around their targets, they are pretty much magic boxing on their own ^^
He wasn't targeting the intercepters. His Thors were shift clicked on the carriers. (At least in the first fight, maybe he changed tactics after and I didn't notice.)
Slight counterpoint on the mule: Mule does get you 225 minerals faster, but a depot drop is a free 100 minerals, letting you stay in your main bases for minerals slightly longer.
Granted, it's usually better to just get the 225 minerals faster, since that means you can make more stuff faster, and making more stuff faster is almost always better than outlasting the opponent.
not getting mule doesn't actually cost anything, it just slows income, the 225 minerals will still be there, you'll just harvest them later
as you say, depot drop is actually saving you 100 minerals, 100 minerals you don't have to spend at all
depot drop also is instant, it gets you out of a supply block right away, whereas depots have a build time
Supply depots also cost the time of the SCV building them, who isn't mining in that period. Clearly, Mules need a buff.
That's actually interesting.
So.. to put some numbers to it:
- Supply drop directly saves 100 minerals
- And through saved build time also saves 21¹ minerals of build time + ~5 minerals of total travel time)
Giving you a total of ~126 minerals saved
¹Using 1 mineral per second, taken from this chart on liquipedia: liquipedia.net/starcraft2/File:StarCraft_II_Zerg_Harvesting_Chart.jpg
Fwiw you really wouldnt stay in your base long enough to matter in the slightest because 100 minerals would be covered in less than 4s by your 16 workers, so while it is technically true that "you are generating extra minerals not found on map" you arent really delaying anything but your tech/units/buildings your moveout time to new bases wont really change. You'd be literally just putting yourself behind 120/130 minerals in the early game that you were supposed to have within the next 90s of you making the call for no reason which can snowball during early fights when you are missing/have delayed units/tech (at least when you lead with doing it multiple times instead of mules). In this game it basically guaranteed he had to turtle which put him further behind than just that tiny bit of opportunity mining lost
By that logic you should only make 14 workers per base becuase it saves you 100 minerals.
Supply drop were viable when terran turtled on 3 bases with 4 orbitals and they werent able to mine 40% of the map, so they use supply drop when they were about to mine out and when they get cap they use the orbitals for scans/ they try to take a base if their push didnt get the killing blow. But that was an early wol strat.
Love hearing Harstem roast protoss players while roasting mech players XD
10:30, That is a imbalance complain right there, can't play mech against toss
"mech players are basically protoss players in disguise" omg i cant breathe
Hey man leave the poor AIs alone. For sure it was impolite of chatGPT to give you a bad build order but you can't blame all AIs just because one of them was mean to you. This AI just wants to get better at the game, same as the rest of us. Now of course, they still suck (also same as the rest of us) but that's no reason to disparage them for not being born a human. In fact it's quite good for an AI, most never make it to diamond league.
wait really ? most ais never make it to diamond league ?
@@anarchosnowflakist786 Well figured that since even most platinum players can beat the most difficult AI that comes with SC2, it stands to reason that such an AI would never get enough MMR to actually get to diamond. 🤔
@@wanderhillen2435 oh you mean those AIs, I thought you were talking about things like alphastar or the things on the "AI server"
The second symbol on the Imbalance Report Form looks like a happy man with a top hat
In Silver League, I only won TvP with mech (especially when they throw mass stalker against well fortified tanks), but that's good to know, maybe next time I'll try bio, when I get Protos opponent.
But my favourite opponent was someone who having seen my mass Viking army, decided to go for colossi.
if you drop 10 supply depot hats in a game that goes to a split map scenario where every base is mined out and resources lost is dead even, your bank will have 1k minerals more than your opponent. maybe he played for the ultra lategame? 😅
That protoss literally did negative micro for half the fights in the game, that's why IceLin got a 20+ minute game out of this
In all actuality, a subpar build with terrible execution allowed this guy to hold so long against a Korean GM
Its the terran adjutant herself. She's finally assumed direct control.
Wait, didn't you just agree with imbalance if Protoss is essentially a hard counter to mech?
I love that description is written by AI.
Mech seems to be inbalanced if its literally unviable, as harstem states
Its true the bio should be nerfed as its got a extreamly high win rate over protoss and the mech should be buffed a lot to make it viable. SC2 is not a very well balanced game at all.
@@alistairbolden6340 what? No, that's an insanely bad idea. Heavily nerfing bio, the core of every terran army l, with no rhyme or reason would break just about all terran matchups. And any buff to mech to try and make it viable vs protoss would likely make it to vs zerg, where its already super strong.
I mean, that was the goal of the cyclone rework. It failed, mostly BECAUSE making it viable against toss made it broken vs zerg, so it ended up in its mostly useless state. And factory units have plenty of places in terran armies depending on the toss composition. Also like, pure mech sucks as a playstyle let's not encourage it. This was meant as a bit of humör about something being weak being technically imba not actually saying this should be looked at.
PvT is currently sitting at around 49% which is about as balanced as it gets, anyways.
20:23 I scared my wife and cats by laughing so loud)))
That mech player kamikaze criticism as protoss was hilarious 😂
And imagine, that this IIIODIS is just a single step of neural network training :P
Was this after a night out? That shirt is unusually nice for the Cowboy.
Its not even the mech issue. Its diamond, but it definitely takes more to use mech than bio vs toss
2:40 it isn't that uncommon for Asian people to use numbers as their e-mail adress, simply because non English alphabet characters aren't supported for mail addresses.
A machine making more machines
Fun fact - it was the alphastar employees typing gg when it played on the ladder, not the bot itself
You could sell all the diesel fuel out of your military vehicles for vodka money right before invading, and the enemy will be very confused by a 40 mile long stopped convoy, but you also have a 40 mile long stopped convoy. One more "confusion analogy" for you Harstem!
Harstem: Mech never performed at highest level? Gumiho won GSL in 2017 playing Mech, even against Protoss (although they didn't make the finals). Yes I realize the game has changed a lot since then. Yes it is so extremely rare that I don't really have a point and will now shut up.
The judges should have judged the doctor drawing because he could be a quack!
I pretty much just come here to listen to you shit on terran players. Thank you for making my day better.
Handsome Harstem is 25% of the screen. Got to love it.
I'm not sure how you'd calculate this but, if you use supply drop, doesn't that technically help delay base exhaustion, since you use less minerals to build supply depots, and mules don't get 250 minerals out of thin air, but out of the mine-able ore? I know it probably doesn't help in most matchups, but I've seen a few draws / all map mined matches that you casted, and I figure that a few supply drops instead of mules might have helped a bit.
Except the edge you'd gain by 150 minerals many minutes earlier (per drop) should swing the win more than 150 minerals in the end game.
The inefficiency in the early game has to be simply insane for that to not be true.
I forget what the build is, i want to say it was a thor rush, where it is more efficient to supply drop so you don't get supply blocked and get the thor out on time than to drop a mule
@@montypython5521 yes, there are extreme corner cases! Also, in the 1v8 cheater AI games, money later is worth money now.
your first mistake is calling the minerals "ore"...
@@kingpet Your first mistake is not knowing the definition of Ore.
"a naturally occurring solid material from which a metal or valuable >>mineral
American military doctrine: the enemy can't predict us if we don't even know what we're doing. It baffled the nazis in WW2, because we were so chaotic.
If real-world examples are allowed, then I'd suggest the drunken monk fighting style, Darth Jar Jar Binks, and Putin.
- Adûnâi
I need a full length video that is just Harstem's analogies.
"Each unit is imbalanced, just like this game."
...y'know. Y'knooooooow...they are. All of them. Everywhere, every unit, every race, all imbalanced--and somehow that actually leads to balance in its own weird, beautiful way. On top of that, it just makes everything more interesting.
If everyone is super, then nobody is
IceLin(real) is a Chinese grandmaster Terran + streamer. He isn't massively popular, but he does have a really aggressive playstyle.
Hoily shit his mic is finally LOUD!!~ YESSSSS Bless the gods! starcraft 2 patch in 2023 and Kevin fix's his low gain on his mic time to buy lotto tickets
My strategy against Protoss is to hide in a barrel, like the wily fish.
Fighting mass thors at a lower level is actually not so easy.
a canadian lmao, love the mini comments
Doesnt mass Liberator beat mass Carrier because the small AOE destroys all the Interceptors?
Not if the protoss takes proper fights.
No because the AoE doesn't - this is not a team game where you can have most of the supply tied up in Libs.
Confuse yourself, confuse your enemy- Evil Lee
This man was built different.
Fighting up ~700 MMR is insane no matter what honestly.
Also, as a lover of Terran Mech, I agree, mech clearly needs buffs. But that won't stop be from building thors because they're cool mechs
thor has already been pendulum nerfed, used to be much stronger
Look at the tips at the start of the game. Toss was 5.1k, terran 4.8.
@Michael Lochlann You have it completely backwards - Thors used to be useless, as soon as Broods came out it was instant gg. Getting HIP cannons added with a bonus to Massive then +1 range in LotV was huge. DPS was massively buffed across the board as their firing rate was buffed. Its not Skytoss they have a problem with.
Mech has just been buffed with the Cyclone. Not by much, but its the only Mech unit that can be buffed without breaking the game. Maybe Liberator or Viking by a tiny amount.
Nice camera side switch Hamster
I'm 99.99% sure that iceLin is the chinese streamer "Ice爱司令". And he does play both terran and protoss :D
Does interfirence Matrix istantly stops the interceptors if used on a carrier?
They retreat back into the carrier
ICELIN used to play on the CN server. I think that's why his MMR is lower on the KR server.
This was amazing because terran was kind of close to winning this as long as he would have pushed out better. Going Ravens for this word have been amazing to kill off the disruptors or carriers shutting them down..
How is this 4.5k on Korea just fucking turtleing with mech?
Harstem forgot Game of Thrones Season 8. A total surprise, everything unexpected, especially unexpected how bad it is.
Don't forget, he was a mech player. Someone plays mech to turtle in his base.
Mech players are not allowed to move out until they max out and have at least 5 extra planetaries. And then wait another minute.
I'm not sure about, but saying that "mech sucks" and that "no one ever won on higher level with it against Protoss" kinda sounds like Protoss is IMBA ;)
Harstem, he got you. If mech is completely unviable because it's so easily countered by protoss that's a pretty clear indicator that either mech is underpowered or protoss is overpowered. You seem to make the case that with equal skill players, mech should always lose. If that isn't imbalanced nothing is. If Terrans only can play variations of bio because factory and star port units are only viable as support, than that's pretty imbalanced for Terrans having so much of their viability tied to their tier 1 structure. Not saying this video proved your commentary but that your commentary seemed to note an inherent imbalance in the game that is just accepted. Mech not being viable doesn't prove he sucks, it actually proves that the game isn't balanced!
Yeah the concept of army composition matchups is imba agreed
Part of being good at the game is choosing good unit compositions, that would be like a protoss complaining that they can't win with adept+oracle against ghosts. Bio is also not tier 1, ghosts, medivacs and vikings are all essential.
this game is just designed the way it is and changing it drastically would be way too disastrous to solve imo
also:
- hellions are scouting units/hellbats are supports units vs light
- tanks are support units vs mass cluster of any units (hydras, roaches, lurkers, stalkers, zealots, marines, marauders)
- thors are suppprt units vs air units (mutalisks, void rays, liberators)
the same case is with infestors, lurkers, vipers, ravagers, ghosts, disruptors, oracles, phoenixes, ultralisks, and many more - you just can't amass a single unit (or groups of) that's supposed to be a *support* unit and expect to win the game with them, nor losing with these comps mean that these units are bad by default
@@henningbreede6428 Harstem did not just say that Thor Hellbat Liberator was a bad comp, he stated unequivocally that all mech has been tried by all levels of players and it is agreed that it just doesn't work at a high level with equal skill players. Mech is and was viable in SC1, and due to how upgrades work for Terran you generally need to choose either mech or bio. If only one choice 'works' in SC2 that isnt quite balanced and it's not like mech is super viable in other matches either. Army comps for a game shouldn't be, play one comp or lose, maybe that is balanced to you, but the disruptor and carrier nerf recently seems to signal that at least some people agree that protoss is a little OP and note that those were the units most complained about in this match
@@aloe7794 they are only seen as support units because they are not viable. In SC1 mech was the best build vs protoss and its not really even debated. Mech in Sc2 relegated to support is insulting and imba!
Kevin, think about it a bit more.
mule is 225 right?
but, how long does a supply depot take?
how many minerals is that? plus you have -1 scv mining + travel time.
if you get +2 building armor, that's not a bad deal either. You save space, you dont lose scv while upgrading depot.
Much more benefits.
Someone that either plays on low level or doesn't even play the game thinks he figured out the game better than every pro player. It's like 30 minerals in mining time lost, like the fuck is that argument. "Saving space" is also not an actual concern, in fact walling/having depots for vision is a positive.
I might be wrong but as far as I know the way Korean language works is that it sounds utterly confusing if directly translated to English. I think the balance complain form is just a way too literal translation.
Yeah, that is a fair assessment. We would sound equally chaotic if we'd try to translate something like that to Korean ^^
Hey Mr Harstem. If mech is incapable of beating toss army no matter what, does it mean that mech is not balanced properly?
generally Starcraft is isn't balanced so that every unit is viable in every matchup, it is balanced around every strategy having a counter strategy that beats it.
@@sevenpolar3483 well, yeah, that's true. It just wierd that toss can play ground or air, zerg can go muta or roaches but terran alway should go bio
Terran don't have a mechanic like creep or recall or shield batteries that make it easier for them to defend at home, they rely on keeping pressure on opponents, scanning for information and controlling the game. Mech is simply too slow to do that.
Mech units are not bad though, Liberators, Thors and Helbats are all good units with uses, in fact Mech units trade better than bio units in almost every matchup, but without Marines, (Marauders) and Medivacs, you cannot punish an opponent putting their army out of position to attack you.
So mech plays a supporting role, but if they didn't Terran would lose its unique playstyle, because they are suppose to be the Anvil to the bio Hammer.
if you think Marine Medivacs beat 99% of all compositions, you should go on a TH-cam series I know called "is is Imba or do I suck?"
@@sevenpolar3483 but they are. Have you seen any pro terrans play? There are a lot of videos of guys getting gm with marines only.
My analogies got so much better since I started watching Harstem.
When people don't say GG..
When people say GG.. "most of the bots says that..." :D
He moves like the campaign CPU on story difficulty
That’s a sick video description lol
it's so funny that the complainee doesn't even suck that bad and almost made it work XD
Captain that shirt is pimpin. . . I like it :D
But harstem, if he supply drops he can stay on a lower base count for longer because he doesn't mine out his bases as fast. I mean obviously it's still bad lol but that's one reason I thought of for why he might do this especially being a mech player.
A game at high level has never been "winnered"
25:18 actually, he had too few libs
in 4v4s, mass liberators absolutely shreds any other air army because of their splash damage stacking on top of one another
the reason he build ravens was also bc anti armor missiles help libs absolutely shred the enemy air
although the only thing why isn't this comp used in 1v1 at all is because it has the same weaknesses as mass corruptors - the opponent just builds two archons and wins the game
Preffering Mules over supply drop is such a normal thing to do, but you got me thinking - didn't we forget to account for the supply depot you still have to build? (250 mule minerals -125 building depot vs. 125 saved for dropping a depot)
I get there are different advantages for building a new depot, e.g. not loosing 16 supply whn enemy destroys it. But regarding net minerals it should be somewhat equal. No? Where is my mistake? Pls help.
Pros use supply drops themselves. Like maru for example incorporates it into his build order.
Like one benefit you don’t need to wait construction time so if your build order is very tight the instant supply is better
You are double counting the depot. Mules get 225 minerals, and then you spend 100 minerals on a depot, resulting in 125 minerals and a new depot. With supply drop, you do the drop and end up with a new depot-equivalent, but you miss out on the 125 extra minerals.
@@Name-ru1kt Maru will only use it under specific circumstances with a hyper-aggressive build. Supply drop if its not needed is always a terrible idea for anyone below mid GM.
My first thought about his sentences that made no real sense was, that his english isn't that good and he used google for translation.
Are you saying Protoss is imba vs mech?
I didnt knew Harstem does Brood War IodiS
It's not icelin himself,It's a kidding from his fans😂
OK HOW ABOUT THIS BGWSS CHALLANGE! You are ONLY allowed to attack, when all of your supplydepots have a supplydrop on them! Make this happen Mr Harstem!!(:
Nah broken english which is kinda surprising for south korea.
He didn't include negatives well. He meant to say, Protess can't (be) play(ed) (against).
It's actually different then bad AI english. you see it a lot comparing german to english, theres a archaic sentice structure in english that other languages get, but is backwards.
You won all games with ChatGPT strats...
is it imba or does mech sucks?
In korea having only numbers in nicknames or emails is pretty common. And the sentences are weird because his english is probably not too good :)
these both compositions seems unbeatable to zerg
Tbf the Starbucks comparision didn't realy work as i would argue Starbucks doesn't sell coffee to begin with
my wife also has an email that's made up entirely of numbers. Did I accidentally marry an AI?!
You're a content MACHINE!
If only he made vikings instead of liberators
Surely ghosts can snipe the disruptors even in this comp?
But is thor helbat liberator imba???
Only if UThermal plays it from Bronze to GM
Question for all: does the supply count on the info bar display only the units on the field or units out + those in production?
Those in prod too
For terran it only counts the one actually building, not the ones in que same for protoss robo/stargates. Zergs eggs spawning count to supply as well. Otherwise you could go over 200/200 supply with ease.
units in production also counts
@@hooah ty
@Michael Lochlann ty
Actually a number of chinese and korean services that are similar to icloud give you an email address that is just numbers.
2-3 extra libs and IceLin would have crushed the golden armada in the end
Absolutely not, he would have maybe gotten that one clump of carriers, but that's still the vast majority of the opponents army remaining.
I have seen a lot of email adresses from China that are all number. not sure if that is what happening here. I have no idea why they are all number either.