Is It Worth Selling Your Woodworking Projects At Craft Markets?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ธ.ค. 2022
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We wrapped up the year selling at back-to-back two-day Christmas Markets! Here's a recap of what worked, and what didn't.
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For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
I do costing and pricing of products for a living, and I would say it's impossible to calculate your exact cost (and neither could I). Simple example: Say you buy a C&C, what is the cost of that machine per lantern? Well that depends on how many lanterns can that machine make before it dies, but you can't possibly know that number in advance. So we are all really just guesstimating. My advice to small businesses is to forget about the cost for a minute and never price your products based on guesstimated costs. Just look at other similar businesses and similar products, how much are they selling for? That's your price. And if it feels too low don't even make that product at all. The feel for your cost is something that only you can really have, from your experience running your business. How I would do it is on a monthly basis: Look back in a few typical months and up all your shop bills, all your labour costs (as if you were paying yourself and your wife a salary), your machine purchase costs (divided by a useful life, say 10 years for a table saw), and that is your monthly cost, and from there you can get to a daily operating cost. That way when you spend a day making lanterns you know roughly how much that cost you, plus the materials of course. But, like I said don't let that cost dictate your price. Your price is always what the market pays, the customer does not know or care about your costs. Good luck and happy new year!
Good for You ! Way to go !
@@SP-nx8qxits CNC, it just means computer numerical controlled, saying C&C dosnt make sense
@@LG-ro5le true, thanks!
I don’t really understand 400% markup.
That’s AFTER you pay yourself a wage for making that inventory? And costing out your expenses? And factoring replacement raw materials? That’s a lot of margin there.
I like the openness and honesty of Andy. Most will only show their successes and not talk about numbers.
I have friends who sell a lot at craft fairs.
They ALWAYS have a stock of inexpensive items. One artist, whose originals were 4 and 5-digit pieces, always had posters, T-shirts and small prints as well. He called them "gas money";
Nice information. Thanks for sharing.
I agree with you about the credit cards. We were at a pop-up market near us for the first two Saturdays in December. I not only got the Square reader but I also set up accounts in CashApp, Venmo and Zelle. I then created a frame with the QR codes for those payment systems to make it easier for customer to pay. Just point their phone at the QR code and enter the amount. Bingedy-bong, done. We had zero issues with taking payments of any kind.
Lots of helpful information here. Thanks. If I might make a guess, the reason your beer flight boards didn't sell is because they are meant to be loaded with several different beers for tasting. That works well in a beer bar with lots of taps, but nobody is going to open four (or more) different beers at home. You could probably sell a ton of them to brew pubs especially with custom laser engraving.
Noticed you also didn't factor in the time cost to make each individual item. Would love to see a breakdown of how much time you think you put into creating the products. Very informative video still. Thanks!
Thanks for the great info! A lot of what you touched on my family and I have figured out as well. This year for us we found our higher priced items didn’t do quite as well due to the economy ! So we made sure to scale several price points at our booth. I make charcuterie boards in just wood only and river table versions . Ended up providing different sizes to create a range in price points which helped us a lot. Thanks again for always keeping it real!
Thanks for sharing. Appreciate the honesty about selling your product and what works and doesn’t. Will be retiring to my woodworking and CNC, in a couple of weeks. Hope to make a few dollars a month to save for travel and other retirement stuff!
One of the biggest issues for any small business, especially working from home, is a lack of interaction with others. I used to refer to networking events I attended as sanity events, a chance to mingle and chat with others, all of which have similar successes and failures, goals and obstacles in their businesses no matter how different the actual commercial activity is.
Great insight for this type of sales approach. I couldn't agree more about connecting with your customers and making an authentic connection. When selling personalized items YOU the maker are a huge part of the story for the final recipient. Thanks for sharing Andy!
Always a good day when there's a new Andy Bird video!
Andy, great job. Thanks for the video and happy holidays. Merry Christmas.
Thanks for watching! Merry Christmas!
Thank you for sharing great detail about your events, very informative for sure. I expect the location of each event has a lot to do with what interests people, regional cultures are very interesting and could be investigated a wee bit prior to the event, but that does use up some time. Anyways thank you very much. I plan on selling at a few flea markets here in Ontario Canada next summer, so have been investigating regions for max results. Hope you and your Family have a Merry Christmas, and all the best in the New Year of 2023.
Great video Andy. We also do a lot of those events and I couldn't agree more, the relationships we've built are amazing and have helped in so many ways.
Thanks, Larry. Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you, new subscriber. I have a good job but got into wood working a couple of years ago. I have no plans to supplement my income but I truly enjoyed watching your video. Brutal honesty. That’s so rear now days. I wish you all success. Again, thanks for the video.
Glad to have you! Thanks for watching
Thank you for this honest breakdown. Valuable experience.
🍀
Glad you found it helpful!
lol! I love the word advise you gave, definitely, I think the nerves play a part, but it's so difficult in the moment and whatever comes out is what it is... Good job! it's all a learning experience!
Thanks for sharing! Some very useful information there.
Glad it was helpful!
Just discovered your channel. Thanks for sharing. I have been doing woodworking with hand tools for a while and have started doing some of this. Looking to make things that might be easier on my hands. Do you have specific videos tied to what laser to use, etc,for those wanting to dive deeper into that approach?
I was setup at a show and I had items that complimented nicely with the vendor next to me so I went over and pointed out how together our items might sell quicker if we teamed up and we displayed the two items on each of our tables and sold out of mine and sold out of his and he couldn't believe I came over and suggested it. Good luck out there and be social with each other.
I love this. Great work!
@@AndyBirdBuilds thanks.
Thanks for telling us what did not work! That's so important and helpful!
You're welcome!
Thanks for sharing.
It also does not include depreciation on equipment, opportunity cost of the investment, and cost of electricity and physical plant.
Fantastic Inside information and insights.
Awesome vid, thanks ! Any chance you will end up selling the lantern plans on your shop Andy page ? They are an awesome idea!
I think you are very professional, helpful to me at the least, thanks and keep it coming bro.
Great to hear. Thank you👍
Dude. Your self reflection is amazing. Your angle of content is cool too. Thank you.
I appreciate that. I hope you find it helpful!
Great video, excellent advice, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Andy, saw something you might want to change in the video, Hehe, 6:19 you might get some "hey what's up" from people who bought from you if they see/hear this. Great products you make, working on it with a Pair of Genmitsu one 6060 and a 1010 to make things as good as yours. Only problem I'm having is finding wood that looks the same after the cuts that all the CNC TH-cam videos use or even holds together after the cuts.
I reckon the beer glass caddies would work better if the hole divot was cut all the way through. People are clumsy AF and I reckon they’d be hard to carry so you could cut the holes through so that when you lift the tray, it grabs the glass at the halfway point, making it much more stable to carry. You could also cut a couple of the holes with slots to allow the neck of a wine glass to slot in.
Watching this with my daughter and now she wants me to make a lantern. Those are some great products dude.
That is awesome! Thanks man.
My most favorite thing about the markets I do (I did 8 in the last 3 month) is the relationships I build with the people I meet. I have met some of the most incredible people. I have had such interesting conversations with people from all over the country. It is a priceless and invaluable blessing that accompanies these types of events.
I did several events in different parts of our state and I noticed that some of the things I do, like bottle openers, sold really well in some places, and not at all in others. So don’t give up completely on your pumpkin trays. Maybe set them out at other shows next year and see.
Also, I completely agree that square is the way to go. I started several years ago with the free square reader and just this year, upgraded to the square stand. It is a game changer. It takes electricity but I bought a rechargeable battery pack from Amazon and it works great for it. I’ve used it at 12 hour long shows and it held a charge the entire time.
Great assessment video by the way!!
Wait, but what about the products you made for this that didn’t sell? What was the cost of those products? How much time did you spend on manufacturing?
I think all of that has to be considered when comparing to other selling avenues.
The inventory cost is a real thing for any in person selling opportunity.
You would probably need to times the revenue by .75 prior to taking out expenses other than the taxes unless they were included in the 75% markup as well.
People don't realize how important it is to view your "competition" as a really good ally. All ships rise together.
Great insights! Most don’t give much thought to those intangibles but they are worth solid gold if you build those relationships. We did 3 markets for the first time this year and had a blast. Also didn’t do well with the pumpkins if it makes you feel better. Ours were 1” with Jack o lantern face engraved. Question…75% margin!?! Do you have. A video on your pricing structure? Thanks as always!!!
Thank you for the thoughtful comment! I've been able to find a couppe material gold mines. My material costs are a lot less than most
Just went to some craft fairs this last season in Texas and it was not like I remember growing up. Most stalls had mass produced items very few in the sea of booties had orginal items actually made by the people selling
This is what makes it hard for us "hand crafters" to compete with. Even Andy's items are "mass produced" on his CNC or laser. He didn't make those, per se. He crafted the computer files needed to make those, but the machines did the rest. A hand maker would take weeks to make those trays. Andy probably took a week at the most, for all the ones he made. And while those were being made, he's working on something else. Again, that's hard for the "hand crafters" to compete with. I won't even get into how it affects pricing.
Yes, these aren't craft items; they are industrial mass produced
Your words matter---yes, they do. It's about presenting yourself as a professional AND respecting the customer.
For your calculations
Wouldn’t you have to minus the 25% material cost from revenue before you remove other costs then divide what is remaining in total hrs applied
Im trying to calculate my costing & thats what I normally do
Then i tried it your way & it gives a large variable
Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you
What about factoring in the time to make and finish the products?
I also thought this. Don’t you need to factor in your time preparing for the trade shows. If treating this as a hobby then ok but as a business this should be thought about.
Great video though, thank you for sharing your honest insights once again. Some Great tips for us all.
My profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor
I love your attitude... I subbed...
Welcome!
Great video and I love math, because math does not lie. But I did not see you cost for booth rentals, maybe $1200 ish for all 4 events? Overall decent margins and yes you do make connections and get feed back. I would have thought the pumpkin trays would have done better. They look nice and a bit different. Thanks for the overview.
I did forget to mention this but it is factored in. Total entry for the 4 events $320
The beer flights looked more simplic... like having a contrasting wood strip, or different design might have helped make them more unique and saut after.
The other thing may have been to personalize them. Maybe not a person's name, but maybe a city or state you were in... Or maybe the name of the brewery you were at. Maybe you could have struck a deal and made some for the brewery the event was at?
Just my thoughts and opinion...
This is great information, but the one item I didn't hear you talk about was your time it took to make the items as that is part of your time as well. Really nice products though, hope you have great success in the future.
My profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing. I went through all the comments because of your calculations. In addition I miss there fees for receiving money through credit cards. You mentioned it, but it was not in the calculation. Also, I cannot imagine that a lantern costs 7.50 dollar, including material, your production time, energy, disposables, depreciation of your tools, etc.
Thanks. Lanterns actually are closer to $5
I did not see where you mentioned show fees that can be a really big expense. I did look at transcript of program to make sure I didn't just miss the show fees cost and didn't find it there either.
A brewery would probably buy the beer tray. That's where I've seen them, versus in home use.
I was hoping this would happen. But no luck this time
Or bars that want to do tasting sessions because you've got to have different beers/ales in each glass for it to have any point. An individual would only want something like that if they were hosting some kind of beer tasting event at their homes, and whilst that's not completely unlikely, I do think you're limiting your market. Much better to reach out to a local bar and offer this product to them.
Sell the flight boards to the brewery and you could Lazer etch the logo on the Handel's and glasses
Part of the "is it worth it" is the actual material cost, and the hours of labor involved in making the products, which you only touch on with the "75% margin"... your labor hours should really be added along with that 53 hours of event time to determine the $$/hour metric.
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
Thank you 👍👍
Welcome 👍
Love the make friends with other vendors section. You’re not competing with them you’re competing with yourself! They are likely to point someone your way if they know you have something that they don’t
Could you do back orders if you had one product sell out while having a display product (if there's a word for it I can't think of it right now) ?
Great vlog. I picked up some good tips. Question…Maybe I missed it but wouldn’t the time used to build your product lines need to be included in the hours to get a better picture of the hourly rate?
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
What about labor in building the products? Were there booth costs for the events?
Sry about pumpkin try. Such a Kool it.
Did you pay a fee to the events, to rent the spaces?
Great to hear it was such a success. Sounds like a great starting point for future events and collaborations. Just 1 question though. Does the 53 hours include the labour to make the items?
My profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor
I cant see how you can create 7k worth of items in 53hrs even though most of these products are machine made.
@@davinche2869 I didn't. That's why I didn't divide the 7k by 53 hours. By multiplying my total revenue by .75, I'm accounting for my labor cost in the other 25%
On the pumpkin, put handles on it an maybe carve out for wine glasses and wine bottle in the middle. Two glasses on the small one and four on the big. Anther thing to look at is presentation. Actually put glasses and wine bottle on each size.
Hi. Thanks for the info, now I'm going to try those craft shows next year. Do you recommend Square or not? Or you know another way to charge in credit cards? Or zelle
I like Square
Great information thanks, but, did I miss it?? What was your raw material cost and labor to fabricate the product? Was that in the 53 hrs?
My profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor
Can you please do a video on how you achieve 75% profit, on average, on your products. I’m nowhere close to getting those kinds of margins and would like to better understand how I can capture similar returns.
Always love your content. Curious what do you use for a camera and microphone?
Thanks so much! I use a Sony A6100 with a Rode lav mic.
Are you related to the Bird families originally from Tichborne/Parham area in southeastern Ontario? I ask because there is an Andy Bird in my family who I haven't met.
If you factor in the time you spent making the items how does that impact your earnings ? Does it adjust to around 30-40 an hour or so?
It's factored into my profit margin so its accouted for in my original numbers
If you say it’s $40 today and they question then say it’s going to be $50 tomorrow.
Can that bag caddy be made with a CNC instead of a laser?
All things figure, did I miss figuring the time making the items or was that in the 53 hrs? Also how many people running the booth? If two Id divide the number by 2 for the hourly per person. Just me.
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
Very Impressive... Does the $91. rate include the hours of making all you items?
Yes
I'm not joking here so please don't laugh or be offended but those beer trays that didn't do too well, if you chamfer the edges of the holes and possibly drill them through you could sell them as BDSM spanking paddles. There's a big market for that kind of stuff.
I have done various events for more than 12 years. I have made a very good living doing so. A couple of things I have found: 1. The more "Hand Crafted" and itme appears, the better it sells. High volume machine made items appear to be made in China. 2. "AMERICAN MADE" has to be upfront in your selling. 3. Folks will always buy the practical over the artsy first. 4. Offer a discount for cash. That is a win for everyone. 5. Patron sign up sheet. This allows you to keep in touch with folks for future purchases, mailings, etc. 6. This should be first; "FIT AND FINISH". Your stuff has to be quality. Otherwise just give it away an stay home.
2:38 beer flight boards: so good first step of considering the audience, however really put yourself in the audience shoes. I get 4 glasses, none of which hold a standard can or bottles volume of beer, this product is ideal for 4 taps/kegs, so works well for restaurants and tasting rooms but not so great for beer consumer, who if has a keg/tap setup in their home will likely only have 1 flavor not 4. Instead sizing this up for standard bottle or can can be a difference maker. If you want to stay on the CNC, perhaps a snap kit designed to carry 6 12 oz bottles with handle would sell better at an event like this.
"they are going to be MORE TOMORROW because I will have fewer of them" is the correct answer.
So how many hours were used making the products? Did you have to pay for the spot at the events?
My profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor
Was there a Cost at the event to rent space? Some places charge a lot..
There was. $40 for the first. $75 for the second and $100 for the 3rd and 4th.
Just Registered my new business today. The credit card payment system just got bumped up the top of things to get. After I make stuff to sell.
Was there a fee or cost for booth rental?
Costs for things like business cards for marketing, should still be accounted for and included in the product cost price you come up with. Those shouldn’t be ‘extra’ costs and should be broken down just like the rest of your costs you have. It annoys me to see people not taking these things into account when pricing their products. You don’t leave stuff like that out! Other things you include SHOULD ALSO be things like travel and your meal expenses for things like this that you mentioned as well as a portion of your electric bill to run your equipment. You need to include ALL of these things in your prices even if the total break down is pennies-it all adds up so include it and increase your prices accordingly to accommodate for all of that! There should be no ‘extra’ expenses because you need to include those in your costs. If you can write it off on your taxes because it’s a business expense, it should be included in your product costs! Don’t forget to account for a percentage of mileage, gas and wear and tear on your vehicle as well! Find a way to break it all down. If it costs you more money to get to craft fairs, you should either raise tour prices to account for that or find ways to make it cheaper on you, like bringing your own lunches.
This is why crafters don’t make that much money because their prices as so low and people don’t take them seriously and label this kind of stuff as hobbies because we, ourselves, don’t take it seriously and many times break even. Many people who purchase from us see us as cheap crafts and don’t think our stuff is worth paying more because we don’t charge more. Sure you have to charge what the market will allow, BUT you also can’t give your stuff away for free and if you raise your prices to truly reflect on all of that, the market will also go up around you to do the same landing it to where it should be so it makes it worth all our efforts.
Curious if you are using 25% as material or goods cost shouldn’t it be on the total revenue?
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
Whats your thoughts on the Carbide 3D Shapeoko 5 Pro 4x4 CNC Router w/ Compact Router
It's a great setup. I'd plan on investing in the spindle eventually if it were me. shop.carbide3d.com/andybirdbuilds
I'm.just waiting for it to be in-stock
I'm gonna get the 4x4 pro fully loaded
@@troymartell151 Awesome! Feel free to use my link to let Shapeoko know we talked.
Could you have done all the shows with products made from just the Shapeoko? Or, was the Avid necessary?
Great question. I think this would greatly depend on the products you're making, but I certainly could have done them with the Shapeoko. It would have more time into prep though
Why more prep time with the shapeoko?
Did I miss the part about how many hours you spent making the products? The net profit number should include that time, as well.
My profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor
We're the energy costs and the time spent to produce these products factored in?
What is your hourly rate you are using when you determined a 75% profit margin after all costs including material and labour?
Regards
Around $50. It's the power of having robots. I've factored in machine maintenance, usage, electricity, etc.
The pumpkin and beer trays are nice, but they aren't something that would be used often. I would pass on them for home because they take up too much space at home for limited use. Having them at your booth is a good way to prompt a business that can see you as a source for something custom higher volume. I micro-brewery NEEDS those beer trays and need them customized. Labeling the beer name on the tray adds value for them. A logo engraved on the handle blows the presentation out of the water.
People will propose lots of stupid time waster ideas, but increasing your product line (within reason) is a good thing. I liked the huge flower you took awhile back just as a demonstration of capability and an attention draw.
I did a show last year, similar results - but after you figure in the fact that you each had 53 hours at the shows, now you’re down to $47/hour… which is still fine. I’m not sure if I’ll do another one
No. 53 hours for both of us. Some of the events only one of us went to.
Top three things I’ve learned from craft shows-
1. Ask other vendors what their best show is, and immediately apply for that show
2.) stand the entire time. Engage in conversation immediately when a customer approaches
3.) have a unique product and be able to answer any questions about it.
Thanks for sharing! I've found these to be true as well. Great tips!
your Number$ do not include the time spent producing the items ?
You did not mention the cost of renting your space...???
I did forget to mention this but it is factored in. Total entry for the 4 events $320
I didn't hear how much was factored, in regard to craft show booth fees.
You need to start selling pumpkins believe it or not toward the end of August.
what about the cost of the products that you will throw away like the pumpkin trays
Good question, but I don't throw any finished product away. I have given some away though
I am definitely doing something wrong. I did 2 craft shows this season. The first was 2 days and I only sold 1 item. The second was 4 hours and I only sold 1 item.
Keep working at it and use your brain to come up with something unique hope it gets better for u
Are 53 hrs including the making of the products? If not, this time has to be added...
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
The secret to selling at kiosks is to tell a story. "How much is this item?"
"Well, we have it listed here at $40, but you know things have been a little slow. I really like this one because [feature]. I think it would look really good as a centerpiece for a table. Are you looking to get this as a gift or for yourself?"
You can also list items $5 higher and give a "discount" of $5 if they take it today
Also didn't include the time it took to actually make the products, did it? I didn't hear that in there.
After making the products, my profit margin for these events was 75%. So when I multiply my revenue by .75 labor is part of the 25%.
I didn't hear any thing about the venue costs! Surely these people didn't let you use their facilities for free?
You're right. I did forget to mention these numbers but they were accounted for. The four events cost a total of $310
Congrats, Overall I'd agree those numbers are great however you left one thing out of the $91.56 from your net profit, The Overall time it took on working on all the items you sold.
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
I like this video today
Thanks for watching!
is the 53 hours total man hours for all people involved or combined? if both you and your wife invested 53 hours each, that's a significant difference than if you both invested 53 hours combined.
For these events, my profit margin is 75% after all costs are accounted for, including materials and labor.
where can I get the Nativity Scene file?
It came from Etsy