Studiologic Numa X Piano Key Actions - Fatar TP110 vs TP400W
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- My thoughts on the TP110 vs TP400W key actions with the new Studiologic Numa X Pianos.
Get a great price quote on Studiologic Numa X Pianos (all models) at www.PianoManChuck.com
Hi Chuck,
Great video and encouraging to hear you say the key bounce problem is not present with the new TP-110 action. This however is the first time I’ve heard the issue mentioned anywhere!
I would be very interested if you could expand on these comments since it is likely to be a problem with other triple sensor designs where the mechanics have not eliminated this rebound or bounce.
The SL-88 Studio controller keys with the TP-100 key action bounce sufficiently high that under some conditions trigger a premature note off.
I have had success by assigning a note off sample to the event (using SFZ) but almost all other piano sample libraries and players cut the note abruptly making the TP-100 at best difficult to play for anything but synthesiser like samples with long decay times.
I can only assume OEMs who use the TP-100 must have put a lot of effort into integrating their own samples or algorithms.
Hi, isnthis as heavy as the TP100 or you think it's slightly lighter?
Thanks for the review. I'd be curious to hear details about what actually feels different about TP 110 vs TP 400W actions (for those of us who cannot try one in a store), and what is it exactly about the 400W that you like as opposed to the 110? Are they similar in balance and inertia? Do they require similar strength to push, or does one feel "lighter" than the other? Do they have similar amounts of friction on the way down, or does one feel more sluggish? Is the depth of keybed similar? Is the recovery force and speed on the way back up similar? Are they equally tight in lateral movement? Are key lengths the same? Is pivot length the same? Is hardness of keybed landing the same? Is rigidity of the key itself the same, or does the wood make for a stiffer key? (I ask because I've always liked the slightly shock-absorptive feel of Nord Stage 88 keys, which I attribute to a slight suppleness in the key material itself). Does the different key surface texture make much difference? Is there any particular type of playing that is harder on one vs the other (repeated notes, staccatos, runs)? Are they key shapes themselves the same (squared off vs rounded edges)? Is touch sensitivity and range similar, is ease of attaining max and min velocities equally easy to control? These are the kinds of questions I'd be keen to get answers to.
Hi Chuck, is a music rest included with the new Numa X pianos or available as an option?
Also, can you get a decent mellotron flute sound for 'Strawberry Fields Forever'?
No music rest included... they have yet to announce what the future options will be. And yes, they have an excellent sounding Mellotron Flute sound for "Strawberry Fields Forever".
@@PianoManChuck Thanks!
Rewatching the video, I have to agree with Chuck about wood key actions being maybe better for [tricky] solo work [probably using few sounds] while plastic actions are sufficient for gigging in bands. The new trend of portable pianos with wood keys and built-in speakers (but still a limited functionality) vs powerful stage with increasingly lighter carry weights - it's all beginning to make sense to me now. Horses for courses! But that makes the GT model a slight oddity, unless it's used mainly in a studio or the player isn't willing to compromise at all to save carry weight.
thanks, Chuck. I own the Numa 1 Clone Wheel (white one). I think its one of the best organs out there (even better than the Nords). I would like to try one of these... so difficult to find any stores carrying them, so its Nice that you do this.
Thanks Eddie.
does it compete with HX3??
Hey Chuck, can I plug a speaker cable with TRS plug into the audio out jack on the Numa X GT? The specs only say that the audio out jacks are mono; so I'm unsure if TS or TRS should be used. My speaker cables are XLR > TRS.
Maybe pianists adjust to their instruments more than is perceived. I've only got a GH action (P-255) which is light, and arguably has some limitations, but my hands fly around it. And maybe I can even do some things on my DP that I could not do with any other action.
Chuck, I know that you often discuss the advantages of 12 volt output. I believe that the 88 & 73 have 12 volt output, same as on my travel keyboard. Is there a power cable available for connecting directly to a 12 volt source? Where can I order one?
Update: I did find a product ("myVolts Ripcord") which costs just under 20 euros at my supplier. It has a 5v USB plug, and effectively switches the power from 5 volt to 12 volt, which is great if you have USB sockets installed in your car/RV. You can also get leads with plugs designed for cigar lighter sockets (via Amazon) but I hate those sockets, and most have too weak an output anyway.
I didn't buy anything, because the Numa X 73 was not in stock, but I wish I had got a myVolts Ripcord with USB plug anyway, at least for my current travel keyboard. Big power invertors are not cool for powering keyboards when simpler solutions are available.
Future keyboards should all run on 12 or 5 volts DC to make life easier.
73keys with the TP400W action and i would jump at one.
Me too. The really weird thing now is that the old SL73 is the same price as the old SL88, at least at my supplier. Supposedly, few people want the SL88 nowadays. What I really want is the lightest piano or controller that has a strong graded action. Everything else can be sacrificed. I only need 73 keys.
Does a wooden keys version of the SL73 exists? SL73 Grand or something? I would be interested in that for my piano sample library MIDI controller.
Thanks Chuck for this video. Very useful! I'm getting rid of my (beautiful) RD2000 to go with the Numa 88 because of the weight. Your advice drove me to chose Studiologic... and my back will appreciate this choice. ;)
Glad to help!
When making a decision, you should note that there are new sounds for the Numa X that sound very good. Especially the new Yamaha Grand is very assertive. In addition, the Numa X has master keyboard functions and good ipad integration, which the Nord 5 does not have.
Hi Chuck, your videos are very helpful, thank you. Do you still have this keyboard and do you miss not having bought the GT? I am presently going through the same reflections as you did in this video:)
I no longer have either version of this keyboard. I actually did a 180 and got the new "Numa Compact X SE" for my band gigs (review coming in a few days) because of the 15 lb weight (my back thanks me immensely). For studio use I already have the best key actions I could ask for in the Kawai MP11 and the Roland FP-90X. If I didn't have the Roland, I'd definitely go with the "Numa X Piano GT" - it would win (for me) between that and the FP-90X.
@@PianoManChuck Thank you Chuck. Very interesting and I understand you. I look forward to your review of the Numa Compact X SE!
That review is now available at th-cam.com/video/KbTwz22neVA/w-d-xo.html
Go with the GT! You are a great player!
How'bout comparing the TP 400W with its predecessor the TP40W? I had the Dexibell Vivo S9Pro and loved the action. I am now considering buying the SLStudio Grand, that still has the TP 40W. Would I notice a big difference? Thanks for all your useful videos!
Does the lightest press produce a sound? My only experience with StudioLogic is the compact 2x which is a very different price range and on the one I played a very light press wouldn't register anything which felt like a defect to me. I want the lightest press to make the lightest sound. I've been wondering if this is by design or just the limit of that keybed, and if a higher quality keybed like the tp/110 would amend this. Great review btw, very helpful.
Thank you so much for making this review. It’s been a more than a 2 years looking to buy a good stage piano and I don’t want to compromise with the key action I really like the action of Kawai MP11SE & VPC1 but then I am waiting for the upgrade of this two models and now after waiting to long I have loss the hope and this Studio Logic pianos look interesting specially GT version, It’s cost effective and I also like the piano sounds but only worried about the action, Previously I have use fatar key action and I had a very bad experience. I don’t know how the new action will be perform after two or three years of playing. I have a request to you sir see if you can explain about the TP400 action and also make the comparison of Kawai Grand feel that would be a very useful for the me and for others too because there’s no such videos anywhere. Thank you so much again 🙏
How would you compare the GT action to the Roland PHA-50 or Kawai Grand Feel (as found in the MP11)?
Please see the "NOTE:" paragraph at th-cam.com/users/PianoManChuckabout
Thanks for sharing this Chuck. Curious to know if you found the wooden keys on the pre-release version you reviewed quieter than the 88? I don't recall you mentioning it in that video, and I'm wondering if that's a difference between the prototype and production version or the wood versus non-wood keys?
Good question! I reviewed the prototype of the GT version, but I doubt the key action from prototype to release version is any different.
I don't really remember the GT version for noise levels as its been quite a while, but I do believe its quieter than the standard 88 (non-wood) version.
@@PianoManChuck One more question if you don't mind. Which do you think has the better key bed - the Studiologic Numa X GT or the Viscount Legend 70?
@@davidgiuliani1657 Please refer to the NOTE paragraph at th-cam.com/users/PianoManChuckabout
I wound up making the same decision, choosing the GT wood keyboard because of being a solo player.
Great review as always. Just wanted to know one this about the Farar new TP400 hybrid key action. It would be great if you can answer my questions. How is the TP400 compare to Kawai Grand Feel2 and Roland PHA50? My favourite action and digital piano is Kawai MP11se but this look so convincing and I Might go for it. Thank you! 🙏
I'm curious to know if the key action still feels appropriately 'heavy' despite the fact that there's no bounce? ...or does it have more of a semi-weighted action feel? Thanks!
Good question! Despite the 'no bounce' behavior, the action still feels appropriately heavy. The key velocity/action also has a wide range of customization so you can make it as close to they way you like it as possible.
@@PianoManChuck Well... I'm back, and thinking I might go for the Studiologic Numa-X 88... Broke my leg a few months ago, and the weight issue is now a thing. Still... the GT would look nice at the studio desk. :)
@@BradHoytMusic Hi, I hope each new day brings you closer to a full and speedy recovery!
Do you got it? if you..... does it have heavy keybed or not? i am thinking to get Numa-X 88 too but i don't like heavy keybed at all.
Great video, Chuck. I love the over-the-shoulder camera shots. The video quality is much, much better than some of your early stuff. And, of course, you give a lot of great information. Any idea when the NumaX GT will start shipping? Liked and previously subscribed.
Its been shipping for a few months already. However ALL orders are waitlist orders. If you wanted to place your order, you'd pay now, and when your slot on the waitlist comes up it would ship to you at that time. Current waitlist time is 2 (to 3) months no matter which authorized Studiologic dealer you go through since we all get it from the same, single USA distribution warehouse. If you wish to place your order, visit the website at www.PianoManChuck.com and contact me from there... I can quote you a decent price depending on your USA Zipcode.
@@PianoManChuck Thanks. You're on my short list when I'm ready to bite the bullet.
The real question is what's the difference between tp110 vs tp100 and tp40 vs tp400w, also can we expect upgrade to sl studio88/grand88 with newer actions? EDIT I wrote this comment before watching the video ^^ What do you think Chuck, can we expect studiologic sl88 studio with improved tp 110 action?
My hope is that the TP110 has continuous aftertouch, where the TP100 (at least in SL88 studio) has only on/off AT. Which is a real bummer.
I love the action of Casio's keyboard px5-s. Does the fatar tp110 keyboard give the same pleasant sensations? Thank you
this is joke
Is there a "felt piano" sound straight out of the Numa x piano? is there a way to get the sound saved inside?
Can anyone say whether the TP400W is much different to the TP40W, as found on the SL 88 Grand, which is really just a controller? I'm not sure I need the internal voices of the Numa series for my application.
@@alexp2082 Sorry, neither, but the more I hear the Studiologic sounds online, the less convinced I am. I wanted a graded action (maybe a wood action too) but I wanted better sounds. My applications have changed a bit, and portability became an even bigger issue, so I bought a P-121 which is the most portable piano in the world, of those which boast a graded weighted action. Sadly, it is disappearing from catalogues now.
Presumably the TP110 is a graded action (as well as being a weighted hammer action) though I haven't seen the graded aspect mentioned anywhere. Can anybody confirm?
I have a GT on order. The size is the same and that is what really matters to me. The weight…I’ll just look at it as a free workout!
What happened?
I love the GT, but it is too heavy to gig with and too big for my Mini Cooper. The action is just wonderful though. I kept it for playing at home but also got a Numa X Piano 73 for playing out. The 73 is half the weight, and packed in a case, about the same size as an electric guitar in a road case. It fits across the back seat of my Mini. Way better for gigging, but I couldn’t give the GT for practice. The action of the GT is just too good!
@@framelessfilms thanks for sharing!
@@framelessfilms Is the tp110 graded?
I don't think the TP400W actually has wood keys. It just has thin strips of wood on the sides of each key and the rest is plastic (similar to the Casio PX-S7000 for example). That's not necessarily a bad thing, since wood is less precise and can swell and shrink along with the temperature and humidity. A full wooden action is probably best left in one place in a climate-controlled environment.
Plastic on top wood underneath
Easy to use; very intuitive; it weighs less than Nord; it has an audio interface (Nord has not); great keyboard/keys (they make keyboards for other manufactures (OEM) and Nord's isn't the best) AND it COST a lot less ;-) -- if all you are worried about is those warmer sounds, just EQ / prep them with their great app; easy enough and you just saved yourself more than grand ;-) -- factor all that in and you'll see it's a no brainer IMO
Update: I have found out that the TP110 action is not graded. I'm surprised and I think this would irritate me because my hands like to leap around the keyboard, always anticipating more resistance from the bottom end.
Sadly, the only digital pianos with fully weighted actions and 73 keys are the Yamaha P-121 and the Korg SV2-73. (The SV2 also has a variant with built-in speakers.) These two instruments are worlds apart in price and features. I had hoped to find something in the middle, and the Numa X 73 looked so promising.
I'm mildly surprised that Chuck didn't raise this issue of no grading while comparing the X 88 with the GT.
I'm in the sale dilemma. I think that 18 kg of nord and this gt with 22 kg makes difference! I had a Yamaha cp4 with 17 kg...
get the GT simple you will be happy
I’ve played the Numa X 73 keyboard (not the GT) twice now. I also found it noisy, to an unacceptable degree. It wasn’t just a uniform thump-thump that a lot of digital keyboards produce to some degree when any key is struck. That would have been okay. I could also hear a distinct, higher-pitched mechanical clank-clank when striking certain other keys across the board. It’s too bad, because I really like the action and especially the EPs. It could be that the demo model I played in the store was a lemon. But I don’t have easy access to another one. So there it is.
Thanks, your comment made me leaning more to GT since I cannot try them anywhere near my city.