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I am sorry but I am dissatisfied of you analyze the abusive moms. As a daughter of an abusive mother I think we have to rappresent abusive mothers because we need to speak of them to help their victims. Of course usually a abusive mother is general been victim as well but she can't be forgiven or justified as you do in this video. We need to write of them to help the victims to find their emotions in media and create the topic of abusive mother. Every time I tell my story people ask to me to understand my mom because they can believe there are orribile mothers
The same way we are extending out understanding and compassion to dark mother figures, excusing their destructive behaviour, we ought to do so for father figures too. It's not for some tit for tat to raise; rather it is necessary if we truly want to offer compassion to the worst affected in our societies instead of playing in the dirt of identity politics.
I was about to comment "number 1 Shameless US tease" but honestly everytype of sibling relationship is portrayed on this godforsaken show (except for healthy) p.s. this is a joke i am a fan of the show
I made the mistake of going to see that movie when it first premiered. That mom had everyone in the theater crying. She was terrible and I haven’t watched the movie since.
@LRS I’m not saying the movie is bad. I actually quite enjoyed the movie. I thought it was well made, and the actors did a phenomenal job. Especially the woman that played the mom. I just didn’t like the character she was playing.
My mom like precious she’s a sociopath Empathy is a crucial concept in understanding not only child maltreatment, but its intergenerational transmission. One form of maltreatment, often involving both physical and emotional abuse, targets one child in the family, referred to as the “scapegoat.” Historically, the scapegoat has been regarded as the only abuse victim; clinical experience demonstrates otherwise. In many families, siblings identify with the parent, joining in blaming the victim for the caretaker's abuse of that child. They demonstrate empathy deficits, which may protect them from the effects of witnessing the process.
Marion from "Ladybird" was a refreshing example of a parent in a teen movie who isn't perfect, yet struggles to relate to her teenage daughter, who doesn't appreciate the sacrifices that she's made for her, and they come to a compromise towards the end. 💖
i think lady bird is very appreciative. but she still compares her life to those of the rich people she’s surrounded by. also her mom is like basically emotionally abusive???? so idk how fucking nice you want her to be lmao
Cleverly relatable Username this. This is why I have a problem with this video. A lot of the behaviors they highlight as “just quirky fun loving mom” are not only emotionally abusive but can traumatize a child for the rest of their lives and plague them with their own emotional disorders to try and tie it up in a neat little bow and say “mom’s are human too” yeah but they make the choice to bring a child into this world and if they raise a future Suicide victim or serial killer how cute and fun and hilariously carefree are they then? Some of these problematic moms in media tell the truly problematic moms in the real world “hey it’s ok to act like this with your children even if they’re suffering” as they may not have the emotional capacity to recognize if it was done for comedic or storytelling purposes. Also notice how the “bad mom trope” is literally entirely consistent of white women 😒
As someone who was abused by my mother, I can't abide by this endorsement of the bad mum trope. Motherhood and fatherhood are positions of supreme power over a child's life. People in that position should be held to high standards.
I was abused by my parents too, for almost 20 and something years, so I get what you mean. But perfect idealized parents in media did more damage to me than flawed ones, since part of recovery therapy is understanding why your parents are the way they are, why they aren't like the perfect family in the TV. By showing more realistic parents in media, kids can understand their parents better. Though It DO NOT excuse any abuse or damage they did to us, neither are we obligated to put up with their sh*t , but it bring some necessary perspective and can even help with communication between the child and the parent.
Isaac Thiele-Swift exactly! I wanted to say the same thing. This whole video i was waiting for her to say something like “this is terrible ofcourse.” But no theyre so positive!
Held someone in a standard of being the perfect mother(cause most of the time, the weigh of raising a person Is only put on her) Is what causes the trouble in the first place.
I feel you weren't harsh enough with the dark side of motherhood, which is genuine abuse. Are they tragic? Yes. But it doesn't excuse them for damaging their children physically or mentally. My entire family has been messed up by both subtle and extreme forms of this characterization, and that scar lasts generations.
Thats because critiquing motherhood like that is still taboo....people still shame people who have issues with their mother. We always have to "understand them" instead of understanding and then saying still doesnt excuse the behavior....
Totally agreed. They should have split the trope 2 into 2 parts: the toxic mother trying to be good, and the genuinely abusive mother who deserves no redemption arc
@Masticatious well sorry you have a kid the children do come first why because they didnt ask to be here. For too long our society has acted like moms can do no wrong and no one better dare say boo about mommy. When mommy dearest came out people DRAGGED christina like she was just some brat when she suffered abuse. Some of the bull Betty did to Sally was just wrong and I bet had she lived she and Sally would have had to hash it. Again Bettys mom was awful sure but thats a REASON not an excuse. You dont get a pass to abuse because youve been abused. Instead of taking over SALLYS therapy sessions she should have sought out her own. She had more privilege than most women in that era so ad a WOC i find it hard to feel for her at all.
@Masticatious your last sentence is probably why more women are refusing to have kids....our society has to change ...starting by not harassing women who dont want kids to have them anyway. Oh and my grandmother who would have been in Bettys age said married women could obtain abortions so she had that option. Come on anyone who was depraved enough to flirt with a kid(glen) shouldnt have too much of an issue getting an abortion. Betty wasnt exactly innocent...yes I loathed Betty to my core ...
I feel like category 2 should have been split between genuine, unrepentant abusers versus deeply flawed, often toxic and harmful, but ultimately well-meaning. Betty Draper is nowhere near Precious' or the Sopranos' mother, for example. Without being more cautious I'm discussion, I think they unintentionally came off as minimizing abusers as "victims themselves."
Yeah. Livia Soprano was close to evil and I don’t like to use that word but she came very close. She was all toxic. I understand that people are a creation of their childhood but that should not excuse their behavior.
I think it's important to keep in mind that cruel, toxic people are not created in a vacuum. They are often victims of societal oppression, lack or some form of abuse or trauma themselves. Acknowledging that does not negate their terrible actions. In fact, it's important to understand so that hopefully we (as a society) can step in and try to help people who are at risk of going down that path by giving then the support, therapy and whatever else they need to address their trauma and potentially dangerous tendencies, ideally before they become parents. I do think they could have fleshed out that category more though.
Yeah. That part of the video rubbed me the wrong way when it started to sound like they were excusing their abuse as being victims. Especially for the Soprenos' mom. I know that wasn't their intention, but still.
@@KW-vy1rf I do agree but that's why I picked the examples I did. Both Betty and Livia had difficult backgrounds and had deep seated hardships and inner turmoil, but are still miles apart in their quality as both human beings and mothers. I don't disagree that societal, cultural, etc problems should always be taken into account, but simultaneously people are ultimately responsible for their own actions, especially when we discuss childrearing. Hell, many such individuals have access or are offered help, and actively refuse it.
Tbh I feel like all these "outrageous/relatable" bad moms also definitely normalizes abusive behavior and abusive parents. Every abusive parent I've met without fail loved to point at these depictions and tell their kids that it's actually normal to be shitty to their kids. No real world mom that falls into the second category ever sees themselves as the second category - they're always convinced they're the first or third. Also just because a mom is occasionally nice does not make her a good enough mom - that's like , a defining feature of abusers, and "a kid learning to mirror their abusive language" is not the same as it "becoming a love language." Edit: I'm all for showing abusive parents on screen, in both cartoonish and realistic ways, because it is monumental for abused kids to see that behavior be called out. And I'm certainly not opposed to nuanced and realistic depictions of abusers as real, damaged people. I am opposed to the totally un-nuanced conversations so many non-victims have that totally gloss over the power imbalance in these relationships. It's different when you're a parent. It's not like being shitty to your partner or your friends or your coworkers - they can't walk away, and have no ability or right to take space for themselves. Parents who don't learn from or change their behavior and consistently degrade their children's self esteem and emotionally/physically damage them don't get some kind of "overwhelmed" pass. You took on one of the most difficult jobs in the world. You chose this. If you can't handle being a parent without consistently lashing out at or neglecting your kids: change, bitch.
That was the problem I had with this video. Every abusive relationship has a quote-unquote "honeymoon period" where everyone's nice to each other and you forgive the hurt the other person has done... and then the abuse starts right back up. I don't feel compassion for any of these bad mom characters--no matter what troubles you've been through in your life, that's *no excuse* to take it out on innocent children, and we shouldn't be creating excuses for them. And it's not a matter of sexism either--I would feel just as much contempt for a bad father who uses his own personal baggage as a cudgel to beat his kids with, no matter how sympathetically he's portrayed. If it's not okay when men do it, it's not okay when women do it either.
kinda true, but remember, you never know if you're toxic to someone. because it's 100% that you were to anyone at least once. often people abuse others because they were abused and don't know how to act in a different way. sometimes it's even okay in the society to act that way like beating to punish as part of up-bringing, it's horrible, but also hard to reflect it. so it's not always about normalizing this toxic behaviour. it's more complicated and needn't labeling like that.
Cordelia Crescendo i don’t know, the “outrageous mom” trope usually exists within the logic of a universe in which other characters are equally ridiculous, outlandish, and insane. it’s not normalizing abusive behavior, it is making fun of it. nobody watched arrested development and mistook lucille bluthe for a good mother, it’s completely played for laughs. the relatable mom is more what you’re talking about, and even then, they exist less to normalize and more to exemplify.
@@unicornsprinkles3277 An explanation isn't necessarily an excuse. I would like to find out what broke my own father so badly that he felt it was appropriate to beat me as a child, but knowing the reason would not make me forgive him for it.
As a teacher who sees all these mothers regularly, it scares me that this video seems to condone some of these behaviors. Some are more benign, but no PARENT, mother OR father, should watch a movie and feel justified in their poor choices. It still affects kids and even teens pretty strongly. No one is perfect, parenting is hard, but at least TRY instead of accepting how bad you are.
TheRapper10000 :/ men can be victims of the patriarchy. It puts crazy expectations on all of us. Men are more likely to be able to “play into” and benefit from the order of the patriarchy. The Take on TH-cam isn’t hating on you because they’re “men hating feminists”. If it bothers you so much watch another channel. I don’t go on r/incel to go read about what men really think of women. Click off. Ya know?
I winced at how the outrageous mums were bullying their kids. You guys sugarcoated how emotionally abusive some of them are. There's nothing funny about it.
@@mynameisreallycool1 Oh not this again. They're women and they made a video about bad moms and they haven't even done one yet about bad dads. And yet here you and your recommenders are feeling all hurt about the video they _would_ have made if they had done dads. Can you see how absurd you look? Can you say, 'paranoid'? Can you do it while looking in the mirror?
@@JohnMoseley I think you're missing the point. As much as I love this channel, I think sometimes The Take holds a double standard between men and women where the female fictional characters are more sympathized than the male characters. With female characters, it's, "Yes what this woman did was wrong, but can you blame her? She's been through a lot because of (blank)." Then if it's a guy, it's, "He's an arrogant narcissist. He's childish and takes his privilege for granted." It's just a pattern I've noticed. I think you seem to be the one who's more hurt given the way you responded, but whatever you say dude. Lol and somehow I'm the absurd one. Maybe the moms from the third category deserved much sympathy, but certainly not the first two, or at the very least, they shouldn't have made excuses for them. Anyways, it's just my opinion, and if you don't agree, that's fine. Let's have a truce.
I didn't like how the narrator said that often the abusive mom is trapped by society so and so. Because they were portraying them simply as victims of society and not as aggressors who inflict permanent pain in children. Imagine if they said that men who abuse women are wrong, but we should understand the expectations placed on the men. People would be outraged at the video. Edit: I'm a feminist btw
I will patiently wait for the Take video that tries to say abusive fathers are trapped by society and have psychological issues. Yeah, I'm betting that ain't gonna happen.
The reason they said that is because these mothers sometimes have experienced some of the same experiences they inflicted on their children. Abusers were oftentimes abused or neglected also, and that's sometimes all they know. These individuals need therapy and other help because they create harm to others, but also themselves. It's very hard to break a cycle of abuse or just unhealthy habits in general. Not all the types but some of the types they mentioned became mothers either because that's what society expected of women in the past. When in reality they aren't meant to be. It doesn't excuse serious neglect or abuse, but it also properly places blame on society as well. Because on top of that society expects mothers to be "perfect" it puts immense pressure on mothers to live up to unattainable standards. Of course, when I say that I'm not talking about psychopathic abusive mothers, but mothers who are trying their best but don't have the support from friends, family, or their community. Mothers don't have to be perfect mothers just be good mothers.
I always felt bad for Betty, she grew up in an era where being a good wife was praised. As soon as she had her children she resented them, especially her daughter who later as time goes on praises her for actually following her own dreams. Betty didn't have that option, she didn't even know the "Perfect housewife" dream wasn't really hers.
I kind of wish they went with Betty and took it to the not so happy homemaker trope, Were they even discuss Karen Wheeler from stranger things and that somehow she does try to steer her daughter away from the path she had taken but her attempts can be clumsy
@@lilahesse1774 I watched it and I loved i't even though it made me cry but there's been a few times I suggested they do a video on the trope I suggested because it's not just Betty Draper it's also Marge Simpson or Lois Griffin or Karen Wheeler. How it evolved from the stay-at-home moms of yesteryear, the basis in reality, and What real life parents whether they stay home or not can do to hold on to their autonomy their sanity
Betty resented her daughter because she was all that she wasnt bothered her until she started to get her own life in the end up until she died. Her damage to Sally i bet was still there...Betty was quite awful to her....mad because she wasnt her mini me
Let's not forget that Betty's unhappy because she married a man who was emotionally unavailable. Even before she knew Don's secret, she sensed that he was keeping something from her. And then there's the women he was screwing. Not really an excuse for her parenting but it gives some framework.
I'm loving the comment section straight up reminding us to stop romanticizing the abuse of bad moms. Abuse is not an excuse to be an abuser. Lucky I actually got a legit good mom.
@Manophere. com well how good that arrested development is a comedy where everyone is bad. Lucille is a bad mother, George sr is a bad father, Gob, Michael, Linsay and Buster are bad sons/daughter/siblings/parents. Barry is a bad lawyer, Kitty is a bad secretary, Tobias is a bad actor.
Rebeccas mom from crazy ex girlfriend is a good example.She always seemed self centered and distant to Rebecca,but turns out that when her baby is in tough times,she always takes care of her. By the end of the series you start to love her just like a mom,she's annoying,comes of as little critising but you can't help but love her for being there and being that non-perfect mother.
I widh they do one on the ethnic and minority overbearing mom who acts outrageous but doesn't have selfish motivations and trying to operate in a culture she's not familiar with and is even marginalized in.
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 I agree, there's something unique about ethnic mother's boundaries and expectations of their children. Part of it is culture and part of it is learned "tribalism" (for lack of a better word) as an immigrant. Like there are certain expectations from my mother to set up roots close to her while more American friends' parents expect them to move away to college and probably have a family in another state.
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 I am not American so I have seen those moms only on screen but yeah,but those are not bad moms,those are kind of strict moms,who will do anything to protect their children from dangerous new things in new big places. Middle eastern moms even in middle east are usually like this,overprotective and want their kid to succeed in everything and be the best,because they didn't really have a possibility themselves to achieve their goals.
The show is about Rebecca's BPD - which is created by parents who have a Cluster B relationship as well. Using the DSM 5, you can identify traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder throughout the seasons. Her mother needs to be viewed as others as superior and she uses her daughters achievements and life as a way to get attention and admiration. She only takes care of Rebecca in the tough times because it benefits her to get Rebecca healthy. While I do not have a direct article or research paper I can provide as a reference for Rebecca's mom, I can look for one if you would like. However, if you look up NPD Mothers BPD Daughters, you will see that the show actually has a LOT of very accurate fundamentals when it comes to personality disorders. It is a fascinating topic and I highly recommend looking into it if it interests you. I bet you could google Rebecca's mom + NPD and find some good scientific articles! With that being said, ANYONE who suffers from a personality disorder has had trauma in their past. Enough trauma that they have created a disillusion world to protect themselves. What Rebecca's mother does to Rebecca is heartbreaking, but she cannot help her actions. And unfortunately, while BPD can be treated, NPD cannot. Her mother will always use her to get attention and feel better about herself, it's heartbreaking.
For years I second-guessed my instincts as a father because I subscribed to the myth of "maternal instinct." That wasn't fair to my wife - or to myself -or to our kids. Recognizing that moms are human with normal failings would have helped me keep things in perspective and stand up for my kids when they really needed someone on their side. All parents could benefit from some self-care and self-respect - and that is 100% a win for the kids too.
Everyone has the capacity to be an abusive/dark mom but I think it's their responsibility to deal with their traumas, get help and (when appropriate) be open and honest if you are neuroatypical or have some psychological issue that you are dealing with so the next generation is not irrevocably damaged by your issues. Don't shame your kids for being that way either and get educated and willing to help in whatever way your kids need. If you can't do that then I don't think you are fit to be a mom.
Yes, please, sounds like a must! Anna from "Frozen" could also fit this mould, being a deconstruction of Disney's previous wide eyed romantic idealists. 💛
@@maramnaina6493 Of Disney's traditional Princesses, namely Snow White and Cinderella, who fall in love at first sight with their love interests, and believe in happily ever after, and true romance.
People talk about how over the top Mommie Dearest is or how unrealistic Betty Draper is. Yet my mother could swing easily between both personalities. She finally was diagnosed bi-polar with paranoia at age 66. I just grew up thinking that those attitudes were normal.
They categorise Lois as the "Parents are People too" section, which is a realistic look at a mother who loves her children, but is depicted as having her own issues outside of them.
She literally decided to sabotage her most gifted son’s shot at success because she didn’t hold the opinion that he suffered enough to properly represent the working class as president. That broad was an impressively easy to hate fictional monster
@@pr0l0gue she made him realise how real and cruel the world is and made him work harder than anyone else for whats his, she instilled values which will take him so much further
Expecting someone to be nurturing and attentive to their children isn’t just something just thrust upon women, it’s literally a responsibility from a parent of any gender. I can’t really sympathize for “bad moms” or shitty parents in general that can genuinely scar their kids. A mom who is sassy and who gets mad at their kid for doing something wrong isn’t the same as a bad mom.
Shy Girl yeah, this is one of the one times whete society is right to expect moms be good to their children. the 1st and 2nd in this video should not be normalized, and the 3rd is good because they can have a connection with their kids. If you cant be a good parent, dont have kids at all
Exactly. Just because men are held to a lower standard, it doesn’t mean that bad parenting should be celebrated in women. Rather the standard women are held to should be applied to every gender.
But a mom who gets sassy and mad at their kids can be _perceived_ as a bad mom, even if everyone's perception of it is different. Furthermore, even though all parents are expected to be nurturing and attentive, more often women are assumed to be more nurturing than men and assumed to actually WANT children more than men do. Which obviously isn't the case, but still is a societal expectation WORLDWIDE.
precusely! Yes, moms are vulnerable humans too, but if you choose to raise a kid instead of aborting or putting em for adoption, it is your RESPONSIBILITY, MALE OR FEMALE, as a PARENT to do your best at parenting. I had a mother who was abused by her mom and society put some really conservative and ugly ideas in her head, but she loved me despite her bipolar disorder, that being said I am baggaged with years of trauma due to her inability to parent and love like a normal individual. It does not make her a bad person, but she was a bad parent. The takeaway of this video should be to have empathy for bad moms and recognising how to help them be more fulfilled, not reaffirming the idea that being a bad mom is normal or acceptable. A bad dad will never get this kind of slack, will he?
I feel like a lot of the stressed, bad mum is usually cause the dad isn't doing much to help either with the housework or with the kids, at least in older tv shows.
Truth. But a lot of cis men gonna complain about your comment. Lots of women have to raise their children alone when married, but when divorce happens, cis-dad wants to have the childrens back. Obviously it's more easy for men to blame women or the evil, evil feminism.
Sugestions of next videos talking father tropes: *Fathers as morons *Fathers as wise man who knows what is best *Jocky dad/nerdy son (and changing patherns of masculinity) Also, grandparents are also a gold mine for several tropes
I really hate type number 1. They make seems like is not a big of a deal. But it is. Egoistic mothers raise insecure kids. There's nothing to laugh about it.
Also, most of the time they are portrayed with adult children, if the children had been younger nobody would have any doubts that they fall right into second type of bad mothers.
That made me think of Judy Geller from Friends, and how she treated Monica. I always felt bad for Monica, it was because of her mother that she was so insecure and obsessed with getting people to like her, and with perfection. I could relate to that. And the comments her mother makes could be easily overlooked and not thought of as abusive. But if you have a parent who constantly criticises you, and makes you feel not good enough. It causes a lot of insecurity and long term problems.
Good thing they are describing a character trope, not real life mothers. I think that's what many people do not understand about this channel when they disagree with something. A character trope often has nothing to do with reality. This channel simply analyzes how particular characters are depicted in media, there may or may not be an actual resemblance between the fictional characters and reality. Therefore, type number 1 is funny since it is used in comedies without real ill intension. People can laugh because they know the characters are outright outrageous.
This was a very tone deaf video, i usually enjoy your videos as they give interesting insights but this one disgusted me quite a bit. It was very insensitive to victims of abusive mothers and also a weird lack of critical thinking skills coming from a TH-cam channel who's dedicated to just this. Intentional or not, you defended abuse and you seemed. I doubt you had any bad intentions as many of your points contradicted and normalised abusive behaviours. Very disappointing :/
Great content; I'm curious about how class plays into some of these concepts. By and large examples of "the outrageous mom" trope highlight an upper class white woman with influence and privilege. Is it possibly a reflection on how society would prefer to judge mothers? In one thought I wonder if it reflects a social perspective that a woman who can afford to raise maladapted children is less judged by society even if her behaviours are just as damaging as mothers in other realities.
that's probably a big part of it! another is, i'm assuming, being ABLE to be outrageous without actually being dangerous or unstable; an upper-class, rich woman would have a lot more time to decompress and get herself in a better headspace than a woman who actually has to work and worry about food, rent, etc.
Great insight! That was definitely not analysed in this video. Should we look the other way because a mother has put her children through school and they're leading successful lives?
I have mixed feelings. I think you went too easy on abusive mom, starting from the fact that you wouldn't call her that. Picturing mothers as toxic and abusive has been a cultural taboo for a very long time and it's a very good thing that we're finally able to talk about it, so why don't you? Anyway, I think this is one of those videos when you tried to search for a common denominator for a thing a bit too broad to be addressed in one video.
How about a mother who refuses to show sympathy and compassion for her own daughter, but only scorn, dismissal, and berating her daughter when she is highly stressed, emotionally distressed, and in tears? Not allowing her daughter to cry, to scream, or to demonstrate any emotion that she deems "not lady-like." Calling a high-achieving daughter worthless, stupid, and useless. Her logic was because I am your mother, I don't need to respect you, but I expect you to respect me. Downright emotionally abusive.
This dysfunctional dynamics are narcissistic and bullying behaviour patterns. Mom favoured golden boy and destroying scapegoat girl is about millions of girls scapegoated and some little boys like Gabriel Fernandez abused to death by narcissistic mom. Nobody ready yet for this talk about abusing moms. The identified patient - also called the "symptom-bearer" or "presenting problem" - may display unexplainable emotional or physical symptoms, and is often the first person to seek help, perhaps at the request of the family.
That's it exactly. In the bid to reject the nurturing stereotype, sarcastic condescending remarks to the kids, drinking and cursing in front of them mid day, can't /won't cook or clean is all glorifed and proof that they aren't a slave to their husband or kids. Its pathetic and immature.
Differentiating between the dramatic mom, relatable mom and dark side mom gives the impression that only the dark side mom is being truly abusive. That's not correct and though the relatable mom might have good intentions they are still damaging their children with bad parenting. Just felt the need to mention it.
I hate when people expect young women who are getting married to have children. Like it's some kind of duty, and the whole "you'll change your mind-" and don't forget "he'll want kids after you're married" like who gives a crap if he does? If he married a woman who clearly told him no kids it's his problem. Also a lot of women who are struggling with parenthood and end up resenting their kids are single mothers. It's so common for men to just abandon their children and let the mom do all the work depending on friends, family and even strangers for help. Not enough is being done about that and people point to the moms for being bad moms or regretting their children while they are tied down to them.
Yes little Fires everywhere 🔥explains the favoured golden children and family scapegoating dynamics in our culture The identified patient - also called the "symptom-bearer" or "presenting problem" - may display unexplainable emotional or physical symptoms, and is often the first person to seek help, perhaps at the request of the family.
This brings to mind the failures/ weaknesses of the nuclear family. When there's only two people that have the societal pressure to care for their children (as opposed to an all-in community approach) things fall apart over and over again, ESPECIALLY when there are financial constraints or any other negative external force.
It also seems so lonely. I’m lucky to come from a large family. Sometimes parents need a break and that’s when the aunts, uncles and grandparents step in. Everyone helping everyone. Also, I read somewhere that around the 50s and the emergence of the nuclear family it was the first time women were raising children alone, throughout history across all cultures the women in their family and community all raised the children together. So no one was ever overburden. I think that’s why modern mums are soo stressed - their doing the traditional mum job while working without the familial support they had in the past.
@@rightwingleftwingchickenwi358 This is a thing I keep expressing to my husband. He is always comparing me to these women who have large groups of other women they can rely on and asking why I can't do what they do. I have no one.
I really dislike how this channel is promoting being a "bad mom" is somehow to be celebrated and held in high esteem. In reality a narcissistic, abrasive and emotionally unstable mother has terrible lifelong repercussions for her children. No I don't believe any human, mothers included, are "perfect". But it's much better for such selfish and caustic women to not have any children at all.
it’s really interesting how many middle and upper class moms are afforded more empathy when it comes to being bad mothers than the lower class ones. at the end of the day, there’s no excuse for abusing children, but in movies and tv it seems like lower class mothers are seen as worse because of their economic status
As someone whose mum isn't great, I have a weird feeling about this video. These type of characters reinforce that bad behaviour is okay, especially if they never have to confront they're behaviour or are celebrated for it
This is the first video of yours that I strongly disagreed with. Most of these mothers are outright abusers. They are deliberately cruel, manipulative, malicious, deceptive and duplicitous. It's not good enough to say "oh but deep down she loves her child... or "look, here's a (rare) example of her doing or saying something nice about her child, so that makes up for the bad behaviour". NO. It's not ok to treat people like this, much less innocent children. And it's not ok to excuse their behaviour. You should be calling them out for the irreparable damage they have done to their children.
Wish you had touched on the Desperate Housewives, they were all different versions of a "Bad mom" and I loved it. Bree was on the outside what most mothers aspire to be but both her kids were unruly and rebellious because of that, Susan was more of a child than her own daughter, Lynette struggled to be what everyone expected from her but she hated motherhood, Gabrielle didn't even try to be a perfect mom, and Edie gave up to try to be a even a decent mom and gave her ex husband full custody of their son.
Desperate housewives would have been a perfect subject for this video. They really missed out especially on lynettes parenting with four children plus her man-child husband. She was a career woman..
I agree, but I feel like they haven't seen this show because I feel like certain characters would fit in well with prior trope videos but the show has never been featured
@@Ellie-zy1zf They should watch it tho :D All of the characters are so fascinating and would be great character study videos like they did with the Friends and Sex and the City characters
I see what u r trying to do but i really don't feel that "dark side" part, u are being gentle with ur depiction of these monsters (especially the ones from precious).
Spot on about the laugh track! This is like the video on Big bang theory called "Adorkable misogyny", which really highlighted the misogynistic sentiments that "lovable" cast had about women! Same goes for forced kisses, played to the beat of a romantic tune. Smh. Fucking Hollywood.
@@livcaitbff I think they're talking about Gypsy Rose Lee not Dee Dee Blanchard. either way, both are real people but mama Rose was fictionalized in the musical Gypsy so I'm not sure wether or not that'd count as a part of the trope
That turned my stomach and i had to skip that whole section. No, there's not a little of each of these types in every mom. Can't believe they would wrap up the video this way.
i have no patience for bad parents, moms or dads. if you cant be dependable, loving and emotionally healthy, please dont get children. there's too many people on this earth already anyway, people who are broken because of their shitty parents especially.
Yeah I cried so much!! The message she leaves Sally was so heart wrenching. At the end she understood her daughter in a deeper level even if they didn’t always get along 😭
That exchange can apply to everything in life, especially for people who suffer mental illnesses. It's so frustrating to fight with all your power and still accomplish nothing or even barely survive most of the time
Another part of the “dark side of the bad mom” that wasn’t mentioned in the video is moms who perpetrate their own internalized misogyny into their daughters by allowing the brothers or male family members to abuse them physically, emotionally and psychologically, which is also a form of abuse. One more subtle example of this is Marriane’s mother, Denise in Normal People. On one instance Marianne brings up how her older brother spat in her face and the mother dismissed it as disputes between siblings. A more insidious example of this is the caretaker Ruth in the Girl Next Door allows the neighborhood boys to r*pe and torture one of the girls in her care
I think it is important to highlight that the "dark" moms are just downright abusive and damage their children's lives (often beyond repair). There is no excuse for abusing your child. Once you are a mother, it's not about YOU anymore, you have to put your child first. Those abusive mothers have no excuse and should not be seen as victims.
Nothing is wrong not wanting to be a mom but don't let fear stop you from doing what you want to do. Unless you don't really want to be a mom regardless of if you are a bad mom or not.
Thank you for yet another great video! Im a student filmmaker whos planning to be a showrunner and film director and these videos are always so helpful! I watch them all the time and add them to my playlist, they help me find and analyze tropes (that I did know about and ones I didnt) and I can avoid them if need be or find a way to make my characters and stories more compelling and authentic. You all are doing great work!
The 'outragous mom' can be quite entertaining, it's also used as a cover-up for cruelty tho. Parents should be supportive not harmful, wit doesn't justify abuse. Nancy Botwin from Weeds was an interesting take on the 'bad mom' trope imo.
While this was an interesting video I'm not so sure normalizing bad mom's is good. Of course mom's are people too but you choose to have children and their healthy mental development is in your hands (and the dad's). I think what should be more normalized it taking having children more seriously, and if you aren't 100% it's for you then don't have kids! Yes the type 1 mom may be loving underneath the bitterness but that's a pretty straight path to ambivalent/preoccupied attachment which lasts a lifetime. In my generation I'm seeing an increase in people that have this type of attachment; the need to be reassured of love, fear someone doesn't like you, overemotional and emotion dysregulation, and trust issues. It's from when your parents sometime are supportive and soothing but not always so you learn to not be able to fully trust other people to be dependable and there for you and can result in unstable relationships, anxiety disorders, BPD, etc. Yes having children is hard and mom's are human, but considering this is important because being a parent is choosing to bring another life into this world that didn't ask to be here. So EVERYONE should just consider long and hard if they can truly be there for their kids before having them. I know accidents happen but like let's maybe lessen that amount, and even kids that were conceived on purpose have parents like this.
@Kay A I mean you're the only person who bothered to comment on it and 13 people liked it so no one else seems to share this opinion. Also, how would you know I'm not a psychologist? I am not yet but I am counselor that has a degree in psychology, or do you have the PhD? Sorry I'm just a nerd for attachment and felt like talking about it on the off chance someone else is too!
I'm just glad my mom is who she is. Before she divorced my dad she was stressed and sad and couldn't live her life. But now she's much better and so are we.
“They fuck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you.” This be the verse is truly the poem for the dark mom
I get acknowledging it, but can The Take not keep glorifying flawed personalities? It's a problem, it's real, but it's not something anyone should condone as ok. Being a selfish, irresponsible, neglectful parent isn't excused by "being human". This just feels like a lazy, overly-cautious critique in an attempt to be superficially feminist.
I'm actually kind of disappointed in how little this video talks about Peg Bundy from Married With Children. Maybe because apart from her willing to literally fight for her kids, Peggy is objectionably a bad mom. And it's not because she doesn't cook or clean or because of her constantly putting down her husband with snide remarks. It's because she really doesn't seem to care about the day-to-day lives of her kids.
Peggy's a terrible example anyway, because Married With Children pretty much only has shitty adults. That's how that universe is. I think Peggy is an example of a mom that no one would relate to.
I agree. MWC was obviously over-the-top a lot of the time, but there was some pretty dark stuff in the margins and some surprisingly-trenchant allusions to the real effects of negligent parenthood between the lines. You have to look for it, but it's there; the writers were more aware of the subtext than the surface jokes let on.
OK but not always?? I mean maybe in fiction, but definitely not irl. abusive moms would still definitely occur with or without societal pressures or absent men. Women have had to deal with stressful situations like this since forever, and the majority don't take it out on their children. (of course I'm not talking about bad moms who aren't fitting a perfect ideal, I'm talking about the actual abusive ones)
I never felt more adult then when I rewatched Malcom in the Middle and sympathized with Lois and not the kids for the first time. It came out when I was in middle school, I always remembered her as an asshole and felt bad for Malcom. Watching it now I can see her caring and trying her best.
I have an amazing mom. A weird, funny, wonderful blend of that 50's perfect mom and a wickedly smart and cunning "bad mom". I wouldn't change her for anything in the world ♥
I never expected this trope but it shouldve been obvious with the holiday coming up. I really love the more humanizing recent portrayals of moms, but the abusive ones are very scary. I hope I never end up like Betty Draper, resenting my kids. Every portrayal is a little sad though
It's not as if Betty Draper had to do much anyway. She had a home help during the day in the week who cooked the meals, did the cleaning and looked after the children after school and in the school holidays and then in the evenings and at the weekends she went to pieces as the home help wasn't there leaving her with the children to look after and having to feed them. It was in the evenings she was physically abusive towards Sally when neither the home help or Don was there. It's why she often didn't bother to cook on Sundays if she wasn't hungry so Sally from an early age had to learn to cook in order so she and her brothers could eat.
@@lemsip207 Yeah, its terrible the way Sally had to deal with her parent's emotional immaturity, really. I saw another comment on the video about Megan Draper describe both of the Mrs Drapers best; Betty is a child and Megan is a teenager
thebovineavenger they categorized her as a “moms are people too mom” in which they explicitly make they point that you just wrote. Did you even watch the video?
I don't see it fair to call them all "bad mom" at the same way the first mom is a mom that grew up in the immediate post War period, raised inside the stereotype of the "perfect mom" and that probably realized that she could have some kind of power by starting acting like a b*, being some kind of abusive too the second mom is an abusive mom (so, a bad mother for real) or a mom that had to be a mom in a bad environment for a family, so even if she tries she will never be a perfect mom, but this doesn't make her a "bad mother" the third mom is the kind of mother that appeared mostly from the 90s because she is the daughter of the mother from the "perfect mother-housewife" era. She is struggling with real-life more than her mother, but, at the same time, she has been always "forced" the behave like the perfect mother-housewife anyway. For this kind of mother being a "bad mom" is a rebellious act because they don't want to try being perfect mother-housewife anymore, they just want to be "their own kind of mother", and they do it because they love themselves and love their children, trying to treat and raise them in almost the opposite way as their own mothers raised them. Plus: Lady Bird's mother (Sorry, I don't remember her name) is not one of those, she's just a real mom, with pros and cons like a normal human being. She's not a b*, she's not abusive, she lives in a good environment, and she's not trying to rebel against the perfect mother-housewife - she's not perfect but is not a "bad mom" My last 4 cents: imo the real bad mom here is the first kind. Sometimes it is said that they were raised the same way and that we should understand this, but understanding this is not excusing it
I want a video about the "good" parent or the "most loved" one. For example Don in Madmen was the loved parent but not because he was really the best but because he didn't educate his kids at all, give them only the cool about life, lot of toys and fun, and not being restrictive. Kids usually mistake the "passive " parent as the exemplary one when the truth is that those parents are good because they actually are not parenting, they are never around and their being parents is just some moments in life, so because it's so rare they can afford to spoil their kid, let them do whatever they want but when their kids need serious support they usually are stressed out.
Yet as Sally Draper got older, she saw through her dad’s bullshit... Trust me I thought of my dad the same way. Now that I’m an adult with children of my own, I realize my dad didn’t have to deal with the challenges of raising us. He came and went as he pleased.
Loving this content! It definitely makes quarantine easier and life more intellectual and joyful at the same time, being able to get a new video from this channel everyday. ❤️
I really feel like Margaret White from Carrie really shouldn't be pitied. The abuse she inflicted on Carrie was unforgivable, and she was legitimately crazy.
If you grew up with someone like that, you don't find the trope so funny anymore. Our society has expectations for parents for a good reason, and the reason is if you don't fullfil it you'll fuck up an innocent child's life potentially forever. If you're not interested in being a genuinely (!) good mother or father, with intent on learning to understand what your child really needs, just don't be a selfish ass and have children. They aren't trophies to parade around relatives, they are human beings that deserve good care.
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It would be awesome if you guys analyzed Shameless!
Please cover the Fat Girl archetype that's rampant in media! 🙏😻
Bad girl trope
I am sorry but I am dissatisfied of you analyze the abusive moms. As a daughter of an abusive mother I think we have to rappresent abusive mothers because we need to speak of them to help their victims. Of course usually a abusive mother is general been victim as well but she can't be forgiven or justified as you do in this video. We need to write of them to help the victims to find their emotions in media and create the topic of abusive mother. Every time I tell my story people ask to me to understand my mom because they can believe there are orribile mothers
The same way we are extending out understanding and compassion to dark mother figures, excusing their destructive behaviour, we ought to do so for father figures too. It's not for some tit for tat to raise; rather it is necessary if we truly want to offer compassion to the worst affected in our societies instead of playing in the dirt of identity politics.
Can you explore the sister/brother trope:
1. Sisters/brothers that had to be the mom/dad
2. Evil sister/brother
3. Immature/ goofy sister/brother
Also the goody-two-shoes sister/brother
I second this, that would be a great idea!
Agreed👍
Talia Cuff but also the spoiled sibling
I was about to comment "number 1 Shameless US tease" but honestly everytype of sibling relationship is portrayed on this godforsaken show (except for healthy)
p.s. this is a joke i am a fan of the show
The mother from the movie ‘Precious’ made me feel sick to my stomach. She used her pain as an excuse to be cruel to her daughter.
I made the mistake of going to see that movie when it first premiered. That mom had everyone in the theater crying. She was terrible and I haven’t watched the movie since.
@LRS I’m not saying the movie is bad. I actually quite enjoyed the movie. I thought it was well made, and the actors did a phenomenal job. Especially the woman that played the mom. I just didn’t like the character she was playing.
My mom like precious she’s a sociopath
Empathy is a crucial concept in understanding not only child maltreatment, but its intergenerational transmission. One form of maltreatment, often involving both physical and emotional abuse, targets one child in the family, referred to as the “scapegoat.” Historically, the scapegoat has been regarded as the only abuse victim; clinical experience demonstrates otherwise. In many families, siblings identify with the parent, joining in blaming the victim for the caretaker's abuse of that child. They demonstrate empathy deficits, which may protect them from the effects of witnessing the process.
The mom from precious is a character that saturates the black community..an it shows..as u know.
Marion from "Ladybird" was a refreshing example of a parent in a teen movie who isn't perfect, yet struggles to relate to her teenage daughter, who doesn't appreciate the sacrifices that she's made for her, and they come to a compromise towards the end. 💖
Trina Q she actually ruined the movie for me, she’s borderline emotionally abusive.
Trina Q I have a great mom but I still really saw aspects of my mom in Ladybird's mom.
i think lady bird is very appreciative. but she still compares her life to those of the rich people she’s surrounded by. also her mom is like basically emotionally abusive???? so idk how fucking nice you want her to be lmao
Cleverly relatable Username this. This is why I have a problem with this video. A lot of the behaviors they highlight as “just quirky fun loving mom” are not only emotionally abusive but can traumatize a child for the rest of their lives and plague them with their own emotional disorders to try and tie it up in a neat little bow and say “mom’s are human too” yeah but they make the choice to bring a child into this world and if they raise a future Suicide victim or serial killer how cute and fun and hilariously carefree are they then? Some of these problematic moms in media tell the truly problematic moms in the real world “hey it’s ok to act like this with your children even if they’re suffering” as they may not have the emotional capacity to recognize if it was done for comedic or storytelling purposes. Also notice how the “bad mom trope” is literally entirely consistent of white women 😒
That movie was so boring
Wow y’all have really been pumping out content.
Agreed, it's fantastic that they're coming out with wonderful videos after staying quiet for most of last week! ♥️
Pun intended?
Love it.
is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Nia Hill quality content as well
As someone who was abused by my mother, I can't abide by this endorsement of the bad mum trope. Motherhood and fatherhood are positions of supreme power over a child's life. People in that position should be held to high standards.
I agree so much. I'm sorry that your mother abused you too. I wish you a beautiful and safe and healthy life.
I was abused by my parents too, for almost 20 and something years, so I get what you mean. But perfect idealized parents in media did more damage to me than flawed ones, since part of recovery therapy is understanding why your parents are the way they are, why they aren't like the perfect family in the TV. By showing more realistic parents in media, kids can understand their parents better.
Though It DO NOT excuse any abuse or damage they did to us, neither are we obligated to put up with their sh*t , but it bring some necessary perspective and can even help with communication between the child and the parent.
100% in the same situation as you ❤❤
Isaac Thiele-Swift exactly! I wanted to say the same thing. This whole video i was waiting for her to say something like “this is terrible ofcourse.” But no theyre so positive!
Held someone in a standard of being the perfect mother(cause most of the time, the weigh of raising a person Is only put on her) Is what causes the trouble in the first place.
I feel you weren't harsh enough with the dark side of motherhood, which is genuine abuse. Are they tragic? Yes. But it doesn't excuse them for damaging their children physically or mentally. My entire family has been messed up by both subtle and extreme forms of this characterization, and that scar lasts generations.
Thats because critiquing motherhood like that is still taboo....people still shame people who have issues with their mother. We always have to "understand them" instead of understanding and then saying still doesnt excuse the behavior....
Totally agreed. They should have split the trope 2 into 2 parts: the toxic mother trying to be good, and the genuinely abusive mother who deserves no redemption arc
@@FunnyLittleFrog yeah especially with the inclusion of the mom from Precious
@Masticatious well sorry you have a kid the children do come first why because they didnt ask to be here. For too long our society has acted like moms can do no wrong and no one better dare say boo about mommy. When mommy dearest came out people DRAGGED christina like she was just some brat when she suffered abuse. Some of the bull Betty did to Sally was just wrong and I bet had she lived she and Sally would have had to hash it. Again Bettys mom was awful sure but thats a REASON not an excuse. You dont get a pass to abuse because youve been abused. Instead of taking over SALLYS therapy sessions she should have sought out her own. She had more privilege than most women in that era so ad a WOC i find it hard to feel for her at all.
@Masticatious your last sentence is probably why more women are refusing to have kids....our society has to change ...starting by not harassing women who dont want kids to have them anyway. Oh and my grandmother who would have been in Bettys age said married women could obtain abortions so she had that option. Come on anyone who was depraved enough to flirt with a kid(glen) shouldnt have too much of an issue getting an abortion. Betty wasnt exactly innocent...yes I loathed Betty to my core ...
I feel like category 2 should have been split between genuine, unrepentant abusers versus deeply flawed, often toxic and harmful, but ultimately well-meaning. Betty Draper is nowhere near Precious' or the Sopranos' mother, for example. Without being more cautious I'm discussion, I think they unintentionally came off as minimizing abusers as "victims themselves."
Totally agreed! There were certainly some focus issues that this video suffered from. Otherwise usually the Take videos are good
Yeah. Livia Soprano was close to evil and I don’t like to use that word but she came very close. She was all toxic. I understand that people are a creation of their childhood but that should not excuse their behavior.
I think it's important to keep in mind that cruel, toxic people are not created in a vacuum. They are often victims of societal oppression, lack or some form of abuse or trauma themselves. Acknowledging that does not negate their terrible actions. In fact, it's important to understand so that hopefully we (as a society) can step in and try to help people who are at risk of going down that path by giving then the support, therapy and whatever else they need to address their trauma and potentially dangerous tendencies, ideally before they become parents.
I do think they could have fleshed out that category more though.
Yeah. That part of the video rubbed me the wrong way when it started to sound like they were excusing their abuse as being victims. Especially for the Soprenos' mom. I know that wasn't their intention, but still.
@@KW-vy1rf I do agree but that's why I picked the examples I did. Both Betty and Livia had difficult backgrounds and had deep seated hardships and inner turmoil, but are still miles apart in their quality as both human beings and mothers. I don't disagree that societal, cultural, etc problems should always be taken into account, but simultaneously people are ultimately responsible for their own actions, especially when we discuss childrearing. Hell, many such individuals have access or are offered help, and actively refuse it.
Tbh I feel like all these "outrageous/relatable" bad moms also definitely normalizes abusive behavior and abusive parents. Every abusive parent I've met without fail loved to point at these depictions and tell their kids that it's actually normal to be shitty to their kids. No real world mom that falls into the second category ever sees themselves as the second category - they're always convinced they're the first or third. Also just because a mom is occasionally nice does not make her a good enough mom - that's like , a defining feature of abusers, and "a kid learning to mirror their abusive language" is not the same as it "becoming a love language."
Edit:
I'm all for showing abusive parents on screen, in both cartoonish and realistic ways, because it is monumental for abused kids to see that behavior be called out. And I'm certainly not opposed to nuanced and realistic depictions of abusers as real, damaged people. I am opposed to the totally un-nuanced conversations so many non-victims have that totally gloss over the power imbalance in these relationships. It's different when you're a parent. It's not like being shitty to your partner or your friends or your coworkers - they can't walk away, and have no ability or right to take space for themselves. Parents who don't learn from or change their behavior and consistently degrade their children's self esteem and emotionally/physically damage them don't get some kind of "overwhelmed" pass. You took on one of the most difficult jobs in the world. You chose this. If you can't handle being a parent without consistently lashing out at or neglecting your kids: change, bitch.
That was the problem I had with this video. Every abusive relationship has a quote-unquote "honeymoon period" where everyone's nice to each other and you forgive the hurt the other person has done... and then the abuse starts right back up. I don't feel compassion for any of these bad mom characters--no matter what troubles you've been through in your life, that's *no excuse* to take it out on innocent children, and we shouldn't be creating excuses for them. And it's not a matter of sexism either--I would feel just as much contempt for a bad father who uses his own personal baggage as a cudgel to beat his kids with, no matter how sympathetically he's portrayed. If it's not okay when men do it, it's not okay when women do it either.
kinda true, but remember, you never know if you're toxic to someone. because it's 100% that you were to anyone at least once. often people abuse others because they were abused and don't know how to act in a different way. sometimes it's even okay in the society to act that way like beating to punish as part of up-bringing, it's horrible, but also hard to reflect it. so it's not always about normalizing this toxic behaviour. it's more complicated and needn't labeling like that.
Exactly, they are abusive, full stop. No “they’re damaged themselves” no “they really love their kids” no excuses for that type of behaviour
Cordelia Crescendo i don’t know, the “outrageous mom” trope usually exists within the logic of a universe in which other characters are equally ridiculous, outlandish, and insane. it’s not normalizing abusive behavior, it is making fun of it. nobody watched arrested development and mistook lucille bluthe for a good mother, it’s completely played for laughs. the relatable mom is more what you’re talking about, and even then, they exist less to normalize and more to exemplify.
@@unicornsprinkles3277 An explanation isn't necessarily an excuse. I would like to find out what broke my own father so badly that he felt it was appropriate to beat me as a child, but knowing the reason would not make me forgive him for it.
Otherwise known as the “I like traumatizing my children” trope
As a teacher who sees all these mothers regularly, it scares me that this video seems to condone some of these behaviors. Some are more benign, but no PARENT, mother OR father, should watch a movie and feel justified in their poor choices. It still affects kids and even teens pretty strongly. No one is perfect, parenting is hard, but at least TRY instead of accepting how bad you are.
Waiting on the bad father, bad siblings, bad friends/fake friends, bad pets.
Bad pet's. 😂😂
Bad pets lmaoo
Fake friends and bad pets would go OFF
Brandon Ninja George Costanza.
TheRapper10000 :/ men can be victims of the patriarchy. It puts crazy expectations on all of us. Men are more likely to be able to “play into” and benefit from the order of the patriarchy. The Take on TH-cam isn’t hating on you because they’re “men hating feminists”. If it bothers you so much watch another channel. I don’t go on r/incel to go read about what men really think of women. Click off. Ya know?
I winced at how the outrageous mums were bullying their kids. You guys sugarcoated how emotionally abusive some of them are. There's nothing funny about it.
They sugar coated all three categories of moms. Though you know that if the video were about bad dads, the video wouldn't be nearly as sympathetic.
@@mynameisreallycool1 TRUE.
Unfortunately it seems like a** holes are likable as long as they're funny. I can compare Lucille Bluth to Rick Sanchez
@@mynameisreallycool1 Oh not this again. They're women and they made a video about bad moms and they haven't even done one yet about bad dads. And yet here you and your recommenders are feeling all hurt about the video they _would_ have made if they had done dads. Can you see how absurd you look? Can you say, 'paranoid'? Can you do it while looking in the mirror?
@@JohnMoseley I think you're missing the point. As much as I love this channel, I think sometimes The Take holds a double standard between men and women where the female fictional characters are more sympathized than the male characters. With female characters, it's, "Yes what this woman did was wrong, but can you blame her? She's been through a lot because of (blank)." Then if it's a guy, it's, "He's an arrogant narcissist. He's childish and takes his privilege for granted." It's just a pattern I've noticed. I think you seem to be the one who's more hurt given the way you responded, but whatever you say dude. Lol and somehow I'm the absurd one.
Maybe the moms from the third category deserved much sympathy, but certainly not the first two, or at the very least, they shouldn't have made excuses for them. Anyways, it's just my opinion, and if you don't agree, that's fine. Let's have a truce.
I didn't like how the narrator said that often the abusive mom is trapped by society so and so. Because they were portraying them simply as victims of society and not as aggressors who inflict permanent pain in children. Imagine if they said that men who abuse women are wrong, but we should understand the expectations placed on the men. People would be outraged at the video.
Edit: I'm a feminist btw
I just feel like the video had some focus issues. Otherwise I usually like the Take
Funny Little Frog I don’t think that’s what they said.
I will patiently wait for the Take video that tries to say abusive fathers are trapped by society and have psychological issues. Yeah, I'm betting that ain't gonna happen.
That’s because that’s the way these movies portray these mothers.
The reason they said that is because these mothers sometimes have experienced some of the same experiences they inflicted on their children. Abusers were oftentimes abused or neglected also, and that's sometimes all they know. These individuals need therapy and other help because they create harm to others, but also themselves. It's very hard to break a cycle of abuse or just unhealthy habits in general. Not all the types but some of the types they mentioned became mothers either because that's what society expected of women in the past. When in reality they aren't meant to be. It doesn't excuse serious neglect or abuse, but it also properly places blame on society as well. Because on top of that society expects mothers to be "perfect" it puts immense pressure on mothers to live up to unattainable standards. Of course, when I say that I'm not talking about psychopathic abusive mothers, but mothers who are trying their best but don't have the support from friends, family, or their community. Mothers don't have to be perfect mothers just be good mothers.
The emotionally abusive mother
I always felt bad for Betty, she grew up in an era where being a good wife was praised. As soon as she had her children she resented them, especially her daughter who later as time goes on praises her for actually following her own dreams. Betty didn't have that option, she didn't even know the "Perfect housewife" dream wasn't really hers.
I kind of wish they went with Betty and took it to the not so happy homemaker trope, Were they even discuss Karen Wheeler from stranger things and that somehow she does try to steer her daughter away from the path she had taken but her attempts can be clumsy
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 not exactly your idea but they did do a whole video dedicated to Betty, maybe you'll like it!
@@lilahesse1774 I watched it and I loved i't even though it made me cry but there's been a few times I suggested they do a video on the trope I suggested because it's not just Betty Draper it's also Marge Simpson or Lois Griffin or Karen Wheeler. How it evolved from the stay-at-home moms of yesteryear, the basis in reality, and What real life parents whether they stay home or not can do to hold on to their autonomy their sanity
Betty resented her daughter because she was all that she wasnt bothered her until she started to get her own life in the end up until she died. Her damage to Sally i bet was still there...Betty was quite awful to her....mad because she wasnt her mini me
Let's not forget that Betty's unhappy because she married a man who was emotionally unavailable. Even before she knew Don's secret, she sensed that he was keeping something from her. And then there's the women he was screwing. Not really an excuse for her parenting but it gives some framework.
I'm loving the comment section straight up reminding us to stop romanticizing the abuse of bad moms. Abuse is not an excuse to be an abuser. Lucky I actually got a legit good mom.
Agreed. This entire comment section is better and smarter than the video itself.
i know there’s gonna be “i don’t care for gob”. lucille bluth is a legend, period
I love her so much.
Melo Melo Shes my fav character even tho I’d hate her in real life lol
@Manophere. com well how good that arrested development is a comedy where everyone is bad. Lucille is a bad mother, George sr is a bad father, Gob, Michael, Linsay and Buster are bad sons/daughter/siblings/parents. Barry is a bad lawyer, Kitty is a bad secretary, Tobias is a bad actor.
@Manophere. com Obviously. We like her because she is confident, witty, most of all, entertaining. I don't think anyone wants her as a mother
@@fhasgw2398 She's like an elephant at a zoo: We like to see them but we wouldn't bring one home.
Rebeccas mom from crazy ex girlfriend is a good example.She always seemed self centered and distant to Rebecca,but turns out that when her baby is in tough times,she always takes care of her. By the end of the series you start to love her just like a mom,she's annoying,comes of as little critising but you can't help but love her for being there and being that non-perfect mother.
I widh they do one on the ethnic and minority overbearing mom who acts outrageous but doesn't have selfish motivations and trying to operate in a culture she's not familiar with and is even marginalized in.
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 I agree, there's something unique about ethnic mother's boundaries and expectations of their children. Part of it is culture and part of it is learned "tribalism" (for lack of a better word) as an immigrant. Like there are certain expectations from my mother to set up roots close to her while more American friends' parents expect them to move away to college and probably have a family in another state.
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 I am not American so I have seen those moms only on screen but yeah,but those are not bad moms,those are kind of strict moms,who will do anything to protect their children from dangerous new things in new big places. Middle eastern moms even in middle east are usually like this,overprotective and want their kid to succeed in everything and be the best,because they didn't really have a possibility themselves to achieve their goals.
@@MrBug-qp1zz Not saying they are but in contrast to the classic sitcom mom. I hope for a video on them.
The show is about Rebecca's BPD - which is created by parents who have a Cluster B relationship as well. Using the DSM 5, you can identify traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder throughout the seasons. Her mother needs to be viewed as others as superior and she uses her daughters achievements and life as a way to get attention and admiration. She only takes care of Rebecca in the tough times because it benefits her to get Rebecca healthy. While I do not have a direct article or research paper I can provide as a reference for Rebecca's mom, I can look for one if you would like. However, if you look up NPD Mothers BPD Daughters, you will see that the show actually has a LOT of very accurate fundamentals when it comes to personality disorders. It is a fascinating topic and I highly recommend looking into it if it interests you. I bet you could google Rebecca's mom + NPD and find some good scientific articles!
With that being said, ANYONE who suffers from a personality disorder has had trauma in their past. Enough trauma that they have created a disillusion world to protect themselves. What Rebecca's mother does to Rebecca is heartbreaking, but she cannot help her actions. And unfortunately, while BPD can be treated, NPD cannot. Her mother will always use her to get attention and feel better about herself, it's heartbreaking.
Precious’ mom still haunts me today
For years I second-guessed my instincts as a father because I subscribed to the myth of "maternal instinct." That wasn't fair to my wife - or to myself -or to our kids. Recognizing that moms are human with normal failings would have helped me keep things in perspective and stand up for my kids when they really needed someone on their side. All parents could benefit from some self-care and self-respect - and that is 100% a win for the kids too.
Everyone has the capacity to be an abusive/dark mom but I think it's their responsibility to deal with their traumas, get help and (when appropriate) be open and honest if you are neuroatypical or have some psychological issue that you are dealing with so the next generation is not irrevocably damaged by your issues. Don't shame your kids for being that way either and get educated and willing to help in whatever way your kids need. If you can't do that then I don't think you are fit to be a mom.
Can u do the breakdown of the hopeless romantic “lara jean,bridget jones,27 dresses,snow white”
Pls
Yes, please, sounds like a must! Anna from "Frozen" could also fit this mould, being a deconstruction of Disney's previous wide eyed romantic idealists. 💛
YES!!!
@@trinaq Which trope are you referring to?
@@maramnaina6493 Of Disney's traditional Princesses, namely Snow White and Cinderella, who fall in love at first sight with their love interests, and believe in happily ever after, and true romance.
People talk about how over the top Mommie Dearest is or how unrealistic Betty Draper is. Yet my mother could swing easily between both personalities. She finally was diagnosed bi-polar with paranoia at age 66. I just grew up thinking that those attitudes were normal.
Whoa whoa. The Mom on Malcom in the Middle is a great mother.
They categorise Lois as the "Parents are People too" section, which is a realistic look at a mother who loves her children, but is depicted as having her own issues outside of them.
I loved Lois and to be fair her whole family IS composed of assholes 😂
She literally decided to sabotage her most gifted son’s shot at success because she didn’t hold the opinion that he suffered enough to properly represent the working class as president. That broad was an impressively easy to hate fictional monster
@@pr0l0gue she made him realise how real and cruel the world is and made him work harder than anyone else for whats his, she instilled values which will take him so much further
@@pr0l0gue How can you enjoy what comes so easily?
Expecting someone to be nurturing and attentive to their children isn’t just something just thrust upon women, it’s literally a responsibility from a parent of any gender. I can’t really sympathize for “bad moms” or shitty parents in general that can genuinely scar their kids. A mom who is sassy and who gets mad at their kid for doing something wrong isn’t the same as a bad mom.
Shy Girl yeah, this is one of the one times whete society is right to expect moms be good to their children. the 1st and 2nd in this video should not be normalized, and the 3rd is good because they can have a connection with their kids. If you cant be a good parent, dont have kids at all
No one said they were the same.
Exactly. Just because men are held to a lower standard, it doesn’t mean that bad parenting should be celebrated in women. Rather the standard women are held to should be applied to every gender.
But a mom who gets sassy and mad at their kids can be _perceived_ as a bad mom, even if everyone's perception of it is different. Furthermore, even though all parents are expected to be nurturing and attentive, more often women are assumed to be more nurturing than men and assumed to actually WANT children more than men do. Which obviously isn't the case, but still is a societal expectation WORLDWIDE.
precusely! Yes, moms are vulnerable humans too, but if you choose to raise a kid instead of aborting or putting em for adoption, it is your RESPONSIBILITY, MALE OR FEMALE, as a PARENT to do your best at parenting. I had a mother who was abused by her mom and society put some really conservative and ugly ideas in her head, but she loved me despite her bipolar disorder, that being said I am baggaged with years of trauma due to her inability to parent and love like a normal individual. It does not make her a bad person, but she was a bad parent. The takeaway of this video should be to have empathy for bad moms and recognising how to help them be more fulfilled, not reaffirming the idea that being a bad mom is normal or acceptable. A bad dad will never get this kind of slack, will he?
I feel like a lot of the stressed, bad mum is usually cause the dad isn't doing much to help either with the housework or with the kids, at least in older tv shows.
That’s because he was working
@@ReplyGuy22345 Thats a fair point! At least for some of the cases!
@@ReplyGuy22345 Not seven days a week. Also in the newer shows they're both working and she's still not getting help.
@@melodyclark1944 and in some cases, the father is really more like another child than like a parent.
Truth. But a lot of cis men gonna complain about your comment. Lots of women have to raise their children alone when married, but when divorce happens, cis-dad wants to have the childrens back. Obviously it's more easy for men to blame women or the evil, evil feminism.
Sugestions of next videos talking father tropes:
*Fathers as morons
*Fathers as wise man who knows what is best
*Jocky dad/nerdy son (and changing patherns of masculinity)
Also, grandparents are also a gold mine for several tropes
I really hate type number 1. They make seems like is not a big of a deal. But it is. Egoistic mothers raise insecure kids. There's nothing to laugh about it.
Yup exactly! Good way to create children with insecure attachments.
Also, most of the time they are portrayed with adult children, if the children had been younger nobody would have any doubts that they fall right into second type of bad mothers.
That made me think of Judy Geller from Friends, and how she treated Monica. I always felt bad for Monica, it was because of her mother that she was so insecure and obsessed with getting people to like her, and with perfection. I could relate to that. And the comments her mother makes could be easily overlooked and not thought of as abusive. But if you have a parent who constantly criticises you, and makes you feel not good enough. It causes a lot of insecurity and long term problems.
by that logic there's probably nothing to laugh about in sitcoms either
Good thing they are describing a character trope, not real life mothers. I think that's what many people do not understand about this channel when they disagree with something. A character trope often has nothing to do with reality. This channel simply analyzes how particular characters are depicted in media, there may or may not be an actual resemblance between the fictional characters and reality. Therefore, type number 1 is funny since it is used in comedies without real ill intension. People can laugh because they know the characters are outright outrageous.
This was a very tone deaf video, i usually enjoy your videos as they give interesting insights but this one disgusted me quite a bit. It was very insensitive to victims of abusive mothers and also a weird lack of critical thinking skills coming from a TH-cam channel who's dedicated to just this. Intentional or not, you defended abuse and you seemed. I doubt you had any bad intentions as many of your points contradicted and normalised abusive behaviours. Very disappointing :/
Oh yeah. As victim of an abusive mother this video makes me feel alone. Thank you The take.
Great content; I'm curious about how class plays into some of these concepts. By and large examples of "the outrageous mom" trope highlight an upper class white woman with influence and privilege. Is it possibly a reflection on how society would prefer to judge mothers? In one thought I wonder if it reflects a social perspective that a woman who can afford to raise maladapted children is less judged by society even if her behaviours are just as damaging as mothers in other realities.
I noticed that the outrageous moms are mostly women with class privilege who look down on "the little people"
that's probably a big part of it! another is, i'm assuming, being ABLE to be outrageous without actually being dangerous or unstable; an upper-class, rich woman would have a lot more time to decompress and get herself in a better headspace than a woman who actually has to work and worry about food, rent, etc.
Great insight! That was definitely not analysed in this video. Should we look the other way because a mother has put her children through school and they're leading successful lives?
@@Delirium24 I get it, they are like the morally bankrupt male CEO who cheats on their wife, humiliate people under them, and snort coke.
I have mixed feelings. I think you went too easy on abusive mom, starting from the fact that you wouldn't call her that. Picturing mothers as toxic and abusive has been a cultural taboo for a very long time and it's a very good thing that we're finally able to talk about it, so why don't you?
Anyway, I think this is one of those videos when you tried to search for a common denominator for a thing a bit too broad to be addressed in one video.
"So why don't you" indeed. Maybe The Take can do a Take Two after all these comments these past couple of years and rectify their mistakes?
How about a mother who refuses to show sympathy and compassion for her own daughter, but only scorn, dismissal, and berating her daughter when she is highly stressed, emotionally distressed, and in tears? Not allowing her daughter to cry, to scream, or to demonstrate any emotion that she deems "not lady-like." Calling a high-achieving daughter worthless, stupid, and useless. Her logic was because I am your mother, I don't need to respect you, but I expect you to respect me. Downright emotionally abusive.
And babying her son
This dysfunctional dynamics are narcissistic and bullying behaviour patterns. Mom favoured golden boy and destroying scapegoat girl is about millions of girls scapegoated and some little boys like Gabriel Fernandez abused to death by narcissistic mom. Nobody ready yet for this talk about abusing moms.
The identified patient - also called the "symptom-bearer" or "presenting problem" - may display unexplainable emotional or physical symptoms, and is often the first person to seek help, perhaps at the request of the family.
With Carol Brady, you leave out that she had a live in housekeeper. Which actually makes her plausible.
«I’m not like a regular mom. I’m a cool mom.”
That's it exactly. In the bid to reject the nurturing stereotype, sarcastic condescending remarks to the kids, drinking and cursing in front of them mid day, can't /won't cook or clean is all glorifed and proof that they aren't a slave to their husband or kids.
Its pathetic and immature.
Oh God, its evolving?!
It's just a mean girls quote, chill :)
say it with me: women being abusive is not liberating or feminist, its just as trash
I agree, but this video shows how damaging the “perfect mom” can be to parents.
No one said it was. This video is just acknowledging that no one is perfect.
👏🏻
That's not what they said
Did you watch the video? They were very clear in the dangers of abusive mothers.
Differentiating between the dramatic mom, relatable mom and dark side mom gives the impression that only the dark side mom is being truly abusive. That's not correct and though the relatable mom might have good intentions they are still damaging their children with bad parenting. Just felt the need to mention it.
I hate when people expect young women who are getting married to have children. Like it's some kind of duty, and the whole "you'll change your mind-" and don't forget "he'll want kids after you're married" like who gives a crap if he does? If he married a woman who clearly told him no kids it's his problem. Also a lot of women who are struggling with parenthood and end up resenting their kids are single mothers. It's so common for men to just abandon their children and let the mom do all the work depending on friends, family and even strangers for help. Not enough is being done about that and people point to the moms for being bad moms or regretting their children while they are tied down to them.
These trope videos taught me more about the world than school could
that's just sad
Yes little Fires everywhere 🔥explains the favoured golden children and family scapegoating dynamics in our culture
The identified patient - also called the "symptom-bearer" or "presenting problem" - may display unexplainable emotional or physical symptoms, and is often the first person to seek help, perhaps at the request of the family.
This brings to mind the failures/ weaknesses of the nuclear family. When there's only two people that have the societal pressure to care for their children (as opposed to an all-in community approach) things fall apart over and over again, ESPECIALLY when there are financial constraints or any other negative external force.
What are some examples where I can find the more 'it takes a village to raise a child?' I love them.
It also seems so lonely. I’m lucky to come from a large family. Sometimes parents need a break and that’s when the aunts, uncles and grandparents step in. Everyone helping everyone. Also, I read somewhere that around the 50s and the emergence of the nuclear family it was the first time women were raising children alone, throughout history across all cultures the women in their family and community all raised the children together. So no one was ever overburden. I think that’s why modern mums are soo stressed - their doing the traditional mum job while working without the familial support they had in the past.
@@rightwingleftwingchickenwi358 This is a thing I keep expressing to my husband. He is always comparing me to these women who have large groups of other women they can rely on and asking why I can't do what they do. I have no one.
@@rightwingleftwingchickenwi358 but sometimes in these settings there were cases of child sexual abuse too sadly....
And that's not even getting into the sandwich generation (that age where you have to take of your kids and your elderly parents at the same time).
I really dislike how this channel is promoting being a "bad mom" is somehow to be celebrated and held in high esteem. In reality a narcissistic, abrasive and emotionally unstable mother has terrible lifelong repercussions for her children. No I don't believe any human, mothers included, are "perfect". But it's much better for such selfish and caustic women to not have any children at all.
If a mom neglect her child, the child will always run after partners that don't care about him/her in adulthood.
Graziela Almeida Not always, but that’s a result of a lot of councelling.
children of abuse; It's okay not to love your bad mom, it's okay not to sympathize with her and give her forgiveness.
And in light of Johnny Depp's trial, it's also OK to not love your bad partner
it’s really interesting how many middle and upper class moms are afforded more empathy when it comes to being bad mothers than the lower class ones. at the end of the day, there’s no excuse for abusing children, but in movies and tv it seems like lower class mothers are seen as worse because of their economic status
As someone whose mum isn't great, I have a weird feeling about this video. These type of characters reinforce that bad behaviour is okay, especially if they never have to confront they're behaviour or are celebrated for it
This is the first video of yours that I strongly disagreed with. Most of these mothers are outright abusers. They are deliberately cruel, manipulative, malicious, deceptive and duplicitous. It's not good enough to say "oh but deep down she loves her child... or "look, here's a (rare) example of her doing or saying something nice about her child, so that makes up for the bad behaviour". NO. It's not ok to treat people like this, much less innocent children. And it's not ok to excuse their behaviour. You should be calling them out for the irreparable damage they have done to their children.
Say it with me:
Personal trauma doesn't justify abuse
So a justification and a explanation are the same thing
Wish you had touched on the Desperate Housewives, they were all different versions of a "Bad mom" and I loved it. Bree was on the outside what most mothers aspire to be but both her kids were unruly and rebellious because of that, Susan was more of a child than her own daughter, Lynette struggled to be what everyone expected from her but she hated motherhood, Gabrielle didn't even try to be a perfect mom, and Edie gave up to try to be a even a decent mom and gave her ex husband full custody of their son.
Sou true!! I’ve never really thought about it, but it’s interesting
Desperate housewives would have been a perfect subject for this video. They really missed out especially on lynettes parenting with four children plus her man-child husband. She was a career woman..
@@valeriemalone2729 Always felt so bad for Lynette, raising all those kids against her will😭
I agree, but I feel like they haven't seen this show because I feel like certain characters would fit in well with prior trope videos but the show has never been featured
@@Ellie-zy1zf They should watch it tho :D All of the characters are so fascinating and would be great character study videos like they did with the Friends and Sex and the City characters
The reason I never became a mom is due to my real-life bad mom. It's much more fun to watch than to live.
I see what u r trying to do but i really don't feel that "dark side" part, u are being gentle with ur depiction of these monsters (especially the ones from precious).
Imagine having a loving mother 😂 my family could never
A vid about bad moms without mama Rose from Jipsy Rose?
Also, outrageous mom is cruel mom + laugh track.
lmaoooo
nina this video is about tropes, meaning it explains fictional characters. Dee dee was real, so why would they talk about her
Spot on about the laugh track! This is like the video on Big bang theory called "Adorkable misogyny", which really highlighted the misogynistic sentiments that "lovable" cast had about women! Same goes for forced kisses, played to the beat of a romantic tune. Smh. Fucking Hollywood.
@@livcaitbff I think they're talking about Gypsy Rose Lee not Dee Dee Blanchard. either way, both are real people but mama Rose was fictionalized in the musical Gypsy so I'm not sure wether or not that'd count as a part of the trope
thegirlnooneknows5 Joan Crawford was real too. Faye Dunaway played her in Mommie Dearest
Lucille Bluth is an icon. Whatever she says is quotable.
"I don't care for Gob"
"Here's some money, go see a Star War"
"No thanks, I have to get back to rehab."
@@charliehancock4581 It is amazing, because she left rehab for a drinking competition and won, this is what she says as she leaves
Yooooo putting Joan Crawford in here.. ‘bad’ mums and ABUSIVE mums are different things
That turned my stomach and i had to skip that whole section. No, there's not a little of each of these types in every mom. Can't believe they would wrap up the video this way.
Where Is Tonya Harding‘s mother ?
Maybe they didn't include her because she's based on a real life person, and they didn't want to cause any controversy.
Zoya Siddiqui
But they put Joan Crawford, and she was a real person.
@@trinaq They showed Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest, also a real person. They probably just ran out of time. So many bad mothers, so little time.
i have no patience for bad parents, moms or dads. if you cant be dependable, loving and emotionally healthy, please dont get children. there's too many people on this earth already anyway, people who are broken because of their shitty parents especially.
i'll never forgive Matthew Weiner for tearing out my heart (with what happened to Betty) on Mother's Day a few years ago
@Saima Sarwar I think she's talking about the final season and what happens to Betty.
@Saima Sarwar Milk & Honey Route! it's the penultimate episode of the series. you should watch the video they have on her
@Saima Sarwar the second to last episode of the final season
Yeah I cried so much!! The message she leaves Sally was so heart wrenching. At the end she understood her daughter in a deeper level even if they didn’t always get along 😭
"I am doing the best that I can" "yeah, that's what makes it even sadder"
I'm not a mum, but god I relate to that on such a deep level 😥 💔
That exchange can apply to everything in life, especially for people who suffer mental illnesses. It's so frustrating to fight with all your power and still accomplish nothing or even barely survive most of the time
Another part of the “dark side of the bad mom” that wasn’t mentioned in the video is moms who perpetrate their own internalized misogyny into their daughters by allowing the brothers or male family members to abuse them physically, emotionally and psychologically, which is also a form of abuse. One more subtle example of this is Marriane’s mother, Denise in Normal People. On one instance Marianne brings up how her older brother spat in her face and the mother dismissed it as disputes between siblings. A more insidious example of this is the caretaker Ruth in the Girl Next Door allows the neighborhood boys to r*pe and torture one of the girls in her care
I think it is important to highlight that the "dark" moms are just downright abusive and damage their children's lives (often beyond repair). There is no excuse for abusing your child. Once you are a mother, it's not about YOU anymore, you have to put your child first. Those abusive mothers have no excuse and should not be seen as victims.
The Take is really blessing our quarantine huh
I don't wanna be a mom, because I'm scared to be a really bad mom
Same
Nothing is wrong not wanting to be a mom but don't let fear stop you from doing what you want to do. Unless you don't really want to be a mom regardless of if you are a bad mom or not.
@Akshay 786??????... Why are you so rude? Be nice.
Thank you for yet another great video! Im a student filmmaker whos planning to be a showrunner and film director and these videos are always so helpful! I watch them all the time and add them to my playlist, they help me find and analyze tropes (that I did know about and ones I didnt) and I can avoid them if need be or find a way to make my characters and stories more compelling and authentic. You all are doing great work!
The 'outragous mom' can be quite entertaining, it's also used as a cover-up for cruelty tho. Parents should be supportive not harmful, wit doesn't justify abuse.
Nancy Botwin from Weeds was an interesting take on the 'bad mom' trope imo.
PLEASE DO the ENFANT TERRIBLE!!! I would literally kill for that one🙏🙏🙏
While this was an interesting video I'm not so sure normalizing bad mom's is good. Of course mom's are people too but you choose to have children and their healthy mental development is in your hands (and the dad's). I think what should be more normalized it taking having children more seriously, and if you aren't 100% it's for you then don't have kids! Yes the type 1 mom may be loving underneath the bitterness but that's a pretty straight path to ambivalent/preoccupied attachment which lasts a lifetime. In my generation I'm seeing an increase in people that have this type of attachment; the need to be reassured of love, fear someone doesn't like you, overemotional and emotion dysregulation, and trust issues. It's from when your parents sometime are supportive and soothing but not always so you learn to not be able to fully trust other people to be dependable and there for you and can result in unstable relationships, anxiety disorders, BPD, etc. Yes having children is hard and mom's are human, but considering this is important because being a parent is choosing to bring another life into this world that didn't ask to be here. So EVERYONE should just consider long and hard if they can truly be there for their kids before having them. I know accidents happen but like let's maybe lessen that amount, and even kids that were conceived on purpose have parents like this.
@Kay A I mean you're the only person who bothered to comment on it and 13 people liked it so no one else seems to share this opinion. Also, how would you know I'm not a psychologist? I am not yet but I am counselor that has a degree in psychology, or do you have the PhD? Sorry I'm just a nerd for attachment and felt like talking about it on the off chance someone else is too!
I'm just glad my mom is who she is. Before she divorced my dad she was stressed and sad and couldn't live her life. But now she's much better and so are we.
I had an outrageous bi-polar mom , lacks nurture .
This channel needs a subreddit yesterday. Please make one so more discussion can be explored ❤
“They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.”
This be the verse is truly the poem for the dark mom
There are a lot of real bad moms out there in the world rn
PLEASE do a video for Father's Day! It can be Game of Thrones dads or just dads in general.
I get acknowledging it, but can The Take not keep glorifying flawed personalities? It's a problem, it's real, but it's not something anyone should condone as ok. Being a selfish, irresponsible, neglectful parent isn't excused by "being human". This just feels like a lazy, overly-cautious critique in an attempt to be superficially feminist.
Thank you
I'm actually kind of disappointed in how little this video talks about Peg Bundy from Married With Children. Maybe because apart from her willing to literally fight for her kids, Peggy is objectionably a bad mom. And it's not because she doesn't cook or clean or because of her constantly putting down her husband with snide remarks. It's because she really doesn't seem to care about the day-to-day lives of her kids.
Peggy's a terrible example anyway, because Married With Children pretty much only has shitty adults. That's how that universe is. I think Peggy is an example of a mom that no one would relate to.
MWT is basically a vaudeville act or an old-school cartoon done in live-action. Not a bad thing but not really ripe for analysis .
Peggy would have been a great example for this list. I think she would fit "outrageous moms." She was fun to watch.
I agree. MWC was obviously over-the-top a lot of the time, but there was some pretty dark stuff in the margins and some surprisingly-trenchant allusions to the real effects of negligent parenthood between the lines. You have to look for it, but it's there; the writers were more aware of the subtext than the surface jokes let on.
“Oh, poor you!” - Livia Soprano
Bad Mom it just overworked woman suffering from an absent man and the pressure to succeed on her own. Have it all even if it costs yr last nerves
Sometimes ye, but not all the time.
mostly yes, but lucille bluth is just lucille bluth
That movie was extremely cringy to me
No sorry, some of these are out right abusive and horrible and there is no excuse for it
OK but not always?? I mean maybe in fiction, but definitely not irl. abusive moms would still definitely occur with or without societal pressures or absent men. Women have had to deal with stressful situations like this since forever, and the majority don't take it out on their children.
(of course I'm not talking about bad moms who aren't fitting a perfect ideal, I'm talking about the actual abusive ones)
I never felt more adult then when I rewatched Malcom in the Middle and sympathized with Lois and not the kids for the first time.
It came out when I was in middle school, I always remembered her as an asshole and felt bad for Malcom. Watching it now I can see her caring and trying her best.
I have an amazing mom. A weird, funny, wonderful blend of that 50's perfect mom and a wickedly smart and cunning "bad mom". I wouldn't change her for anything in the world ♥
Good for you😉😁😊
@ 16:23 god if I haven't wanted to do this countless times during my teen years
I never expected this trope but it shouldve been obvious with the holiday coming up. I really love the more humanizing recent portrayals of moms, but the abusive ones are very scary. I hope I never end up like Betty Draper, resenting my kids. Every portrayal is a little sad though
It's not as if Betty Draper had to do much anyway. She had a home help during the day in the week who cooked the meals, did the cleaning and looked after the children after school and in the school holidays and then in the evenings and at the weekends she went to pieces as the home help wasn't there leaving her with the children to look after and having to feed them. It was in the evenings she was physically abusive towards Sally when neither the home help or Don was there. It's why she often didn't bother to cook on Sundays if she wasn't hungry so Sally from an early age had to learn to cook in order so she and her brothers could eat.
@@lemsip207 Yeah, its terrible the way Sally had to deal with her parent's emotional immaturity, really. I saw another comment on the video about Megan Draper describe both of the Mrs Drapers best; Betty is a child and Megan is a teenager
MALCOLM'S MOTHER WAS AN AMAZING MOTHER. How dare you call her bad. With 5 boys and Hal. She was just overworked and frayed NOT BAD.
thebovineavenger they categorized her as a “moms are people too mom” in which they explicitly make they point that you just wrote. Did you even watch the video?
They acknowledge that Lois clearly loves her brood of boys, but is depicted realistically, and struggles to deal with all of their demands.
You really need to do a part two on this, yes it's tragic but there's literally no excuse for child abuse
This makes me regard my mum through a different perspective... I'm gonna buy her another "best mum ever" coffee mug
We don't want perfect moms, we want good ones, and that shouldn't be unreasonable. Being flawed is not what makes someone a bad mom.
I don't see it fair to call them all "bad mom" at the same way
the first mom is a mom that grew up in the immediate post War period, raised inside the stereotype of the "perfect mom" and that probably realized that she could have some kind of power by starting acting like a b*, being some kind of abusive too
the second mom is an abusive mom (so, a bad mother for real) or a mom that had to be a mom in a bad environment for a family, so even if she tries she will never be a perfect mom, but this doesn't make her a "bad mother"
the third mom is the kind of mother that appeared mostly from the 90s because she is the daughter of the mother from the "perfect mother-housewife" era. She is struggling with real-life more than her mother, but, at the same time, she has been always "forced" the behave like the perfect mother-housewife anyway. For this kind of mother being a "bad mom" is a rebellious act because they don't want to try being perfect mother-housewife anymore, they just want to be "their own kind of mother", and they do it because they love themselves and love their children, trying to treat and raise them in almost the opposite way as their own mothers raised them.
Plus: Lady Bird's mother (Sorry, I don't remember her name) is not one of those, she's just a real mom, with pros and cons like a normal human being. She's not a b*, she's not abusive, she lives in a good environment, and she's not trying to rebel against the perfect mother-housewife - she's not perfect but is not a "bad mom"
My last 4 cents: imo the real bad mom here is the first kind. Sometimes it is said that they were raised the same way and that we should understand this, but understanding this is not excusing it
Really? On Mother’s Day?! That’s so petty and I’m here for it.
I want a video about the "good" parent or the "most loved" one. For example Don in Madmen was the loved parent but not because he was really the best but because he didn't educate his kids at all, give them only the cool about life, lot of toys and fun, and not being restrictive. Kids usually mistake the "passive " parent as the exemplary one when the truth is that those parents are good because they actually are not parenting, they are never around and their being parents is just some moments in life, so because it's so rare they can afford to spoil their kid, let them do whatever they want but when their kids need serious support they usually are stressed out.
Yet as Sally Draper got older, she saw through her dad’s bullshit... Trust me I thought of my dad the same way. Now that I’m an adult with children of my own, I realize my dad didn’t have to deal with the challenges of raising us. He came and went as he pleased.
SO happy they mentioned The Florida Project mom!
Now you need to do the Cool Mom trope.
I was surprised that Malory Archer didn't make an appearance tho
Youssef HEGAZY 2 she did tho
I think that they may have showed her in passing, but didn't discuss her in detail.
Malory Archer from...?
@@-inactive-7000 from Archer
Malory is hilarious tho and she's a whole mood.
Had to stop watching after some clips about the dark side of the mom.
Where was the overbearing mom? "Marie" from Everybody Loves Raymond
The animal crossing Fandom really loves Raymond-
The overbearing mom could be described as a good mom who didn't know when to stop.
These are getting me through the days! Thank you for continuing to make all this quality content 🤗
Loving this content! It definitely makes quarantine easier and life more intellectual and joyful at the same time, being able to get a new video from this channel everyday. ❤️
I really feel like Margaret White from Carrie really shouldn't be pitied. The abuse she inflicted on Carrie was unforgivable, and she was legitimately crazy.
Very true some of these mothers need condemnation instead of pity.
Exactly. It was weird for the editor to put Margaret White and Precious' abusive mother in the same box as Betty Draper and other less toxic ones
People are allowed to feel pity towards anyone. You don't decide that for them.
@@misssoso5859 Can I feel pity towards serial killers and murderers and rapists too?
@@djervalevy9784 Yes. They're your feelings.
Another video already? I’m here for it.
I would love an analysis video about The Malcolm in the middle family.
The 'moms are people too part' made me think of my own mother.
If you grew up with someone like that, you don't find the trope so funny anymore. Our society has expectations for parents for a good reason, and the reason is if you don't fullfil it you'll fuck up an innocent child's life potentially forever. If you're not interested in being a genuinely (!) good mother or father, with intent on learning to understand what your child really needs, just don't be a selfish ass and have children. They aren't trophies to parade around relatives, they are human beings that deserve good care.
Jessica Walter's characters are like the ultimate bad moms