Minisforum UM790 Pro: Low Power, High Speed, Tiny PC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2023
- Check it out here: store.minisforum.com/products...
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Intro and Outro Music By: Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
"I could ramble about this all day; that's not what we're here for..." - I mean, have you met your audience? The vast majority of us would happily listen to you ramble on all day about the potential for eighty gigabit PCI tunnelling, PCI-E five signalling, and definitely for the optical interconnects.
Maybe a floatplane cut with 3+ hours of rambling included.
Nah, just get straight to the point.
I love how much compute you can get for your money (and watts) these days.
I really wish one of these companies made an external hard drive enclosure to go with their minipc. Maybe with Oculink or something similar. 4x 2.5" bays for ssd's would be perfect, then maybe make a different enclosure for 4x 3.5" bay for mechanical hd's. There's no tiny storage centric build made and I'm not sure why no one's doing it.
Tiny storage centric build has always been the dream. but I'd argue that 8TB TLC and QLC drives are cheap enough now that you should just do a 6x 2.5" SSD build with a tiny PC like this as the "mainboard"
@@WinterCharmVT evertec-ad650i-mini-itx .... 6x m.2
I love my UM790 Pro . This thing is powerful. No issues. 3 Monitors, multitasking, watching videos and playing games at the same time, no issues .. Never Hotter than 165F. LOVE IT !
Don't mind me. I'm just sitting here waiting for the Thunderbolt networking video.
I love what minisforum is doing lately.
Great machine, I’m glad I ordered one before Wendell put out a video 😅
I'm thinking about a Minisforum for web development. I don't need my main machine pulling 100W for only writing code on a multi-monitor setup. It's also very fast for development work.
Great video, Wendell. Thank you.
9:28 -- "experimenting with 10 Gbit/s USB enclosures"
This is the type of a computer that can handle every basic task, and some workstation workloads. For someone looking for office pc, HTPC or similar small, low power computing with windows/linux there is no need to buy large PC. Performance of those laptop chips is high enough for comfortable everyday use for years to come. I have large and powerful gaming PC and Unraid NAS with Windows VM running as HTPC but I'm still eyeing one of those minis to play with. Maybe to have something kinda portable for when I'm traveling, to plug into hotel tv.
even 2 years later I still love my Minisforum B550 with 5600g for road trips and my portable 15.6" screen all fits in backpack and yes better than a laptop for my use but some day I want to set it up as a Linux server or a plex server
SATA SSDs are not wholly cheaper than NVME ones anyway. Any place SATA perf is acceptable, so is a gen 3 (or slightly "subpar" Gen4) drive for maybe $10 more. You literally can't even use the full Gen4 NVME bandwidth in anything you could/would do with these PCs for it to matter that you didn't get the very best drives on the market.
Super excited for that PCIe tunneling networking stuff 🥳I've been wondering how well that (can) work for a while.
These APU's are getting rather impressive. Surprised to see an SSHD being used. I had a 2.5 inch Firecuda SSHD before SATA SSD's became affordable and it was amazing.
I reckon go for it Wendell, I'm super interested in the HPC potential of a cluster of these. You could even try a GPU enabled linpack benchmark and see how it goes!
I don't know how many of these comments you get but it's crazy to see your health journey over the years. I remember when you were just a pair of eyes on Tek Syndicate, but even then you could tell. I'm glad you've found greener pastures now in what you do. I do miss the dynamic you had with Logan sometimes but oh well, what can you do. Time heals most wounds but maybe not all of them.
👍
ECC, please release that thing with ECC support.
Holy crap man! You are looking really good!
Nice to see a metal case.
Wendell L1T: "IDK why we're getting so many sales of these mini PCs."
Also Wendell L1T yesterday and weekly for the last couple years: "Let's check out this amazing mini PC. I have to rave about this!"
i have 2 of these one has a little bit different case - they are badass
Speaking about "Thunderbolt" GPU connection. You won't get good gaming performance out of it, but data science tasks/mining/hashcat works just fine since it doesn't really require a huge bus width beetween GPU and CPU.
Great on the go travel work PC. I thought the USB-4 in the front was totally terrible, but I know alot of people who use portable monitors for MS Teams and chat windows setup in front of their monitors.
You tried almost all minis forum devices.
Please, suggest me:
EM680 or UM773?
I would like to buy the um790, but I can't in this moment.
I follow you, i really love your video reviews. Very good job!
now the real amazement is when strix point halo hits the ground and goes into mini PCs,
that's where the fun really begins
I think I bought the um560 and woe these are awesome
I use a 690 version at the office. Hang it on the back of the monitor. It is compact and portable for the few times I need to travel. Much cheaper than a laptop and a 27inch monitor.
That 780m can do esports titles just fine it is about on par with a RX 6400 but likely more than the x4 PCIe link which is a bit insane in the footprint of this min PC when you also add in that, as you said, the CPU is stronger than an 11900.
Wow. Token Ring 2.0.
Are you making a joke about linking with us? At least it's not coax! 😅
I logged just to say this. "Ackchyually" there is an undocumented mini SATA port on the board, which is wierd because to some people the unit arrives with a small sata cable, but not to all. But it works! the UM790 Pro has the possibility for SATA!
How is Minisforum's support? I would love one of these mini PCs but not if I can't get support.
Laptop CPU performance has been great for a long time, but laptop GPUs are super quirky and incapable at fairly basic things, like 4k120 VRR outputs, and then there's lack of USB. So much stuff needs a lot of USB nowadays, and splitting it up with a hub causes serious bandwidth and latency issues pretty quickly. Once they fix that stuff, I think most of even the heavy users like me could move to a mini PC / laptop for most things.
What makes me go with this model and not older ones is the dual M2 slot but maybe going M2 and SATA 2'5 maybe is okay... maybe 😁
Thanks, this is great!
I have some screen font artifacts in the 1.05 BIOS. Did you see this?
I can't seem to find a link to BIOS Version 1.03 on their site?
Does anyone have this? Do they not post older BIOS versions in an archive?
Love the review! Does this have HDMI CEC?
No cec afaik
I need this with the 7945hx
I was against the wall on which of these to buy. I went with the GMKTek K6 7840 CPU and it looks like mine gives better benchmark numbers even of Balanced Cmos settings. Good deal.
Hello and greetings from Germany, great video, have now also bought a UM790 and am a little disappointed, unfortunately I cannot set a resolution of 5120x1440, is that with you too?
Damn, I love these Tiny PC's. There is just no usecase atm for me. ;)
except this which older mini pc''s can ouput 4k 120hz? and super snappy and fast?
love u wendell :DDDDDDDDD
How reliable is Minisforum with UEFI updates (especially with AMD AGESA updates)?
Will the BIOS in these things support booting off of a RAID-1 mdadm device?
Is it a good idea to change the VRAM from 2GB to 6GB in the BIOs for AAA games and emulation?
So I decided to install Pop Os Linux on this box. Do I need to install any specific AMD drivers for the GPU to work?
are those two usb 4/thunderbolt ports using seperate cpu lanes? seperate chips? like am i gonna get two independent lanes for maximum power! or it is just a splitter off of 1?
I really like mini pc.... much more than conventional desktop... but I want a direct pcie port!
They announced a new mini-ITX mother board yesterday or the day before with a PCIE slot
Can u give more details on that? Thanks
Very nice, but wish it had dual 2.5g lan ports.
That is very close to sliding into a 3.5 HHD bay. Once we reach that singularity we could all own our own little piece of Skynet, exciting times!
are you able to install Xcp-ng on this? I have Asus pn52 with amd cpu and with Realtek RTK 8125BG Network Interface. Is it the same network controller in Minisforum Um790?
which turned out to be complicated to get drivers to work properly with xcp-ng. can't get 2.5Gb link to work 1Gb link only works halfway.
Does it come with win11 home or pro. Thx and greetings from austria
Do Minisforum benchmark
Would this be okay for video editing? Especially 4k 10bit files?!
All the other reviews of the UM790 Pro state that you have to remove the screws to open the chasis, but Wendells' review states that the system just snaps together. Can someone confirm which is correct?
There are 4 screws. No problem to open it. I bought a barebone so I had to open it up and put in the RAM and SSD.
Does graphics based on rdna3 mean it can do av1 encoding and decoding in hardware?
As far as I know, yes
I saw a review on the Beelink model and the guy tested the hardware encoding performance, it was really good. Will search it in my view story
A clean install of Windows 11 23H2 throws 'this device does not meet the minimum system requirements for Windows 11". I did the reg hack to install in dev mode but people should be aware of this issue.
I tried popping my Win10 (with a Ryzen 9) 980 Pro straight into the box and it ran for up to 20 minutes before locking hard. The thing that concerns me about this devices, and all UEFI motherboards, is 'what can UEFI get away with without me knowing about it?"
Im new to this pc world and paid $813 for the top version of the 790pro, with 1 tb. I feel like I overpaid??
USB4: What is my purpose?
Me: You attach my mouse and Keyboard.
USB4: O.M.G.
I got mine a few weeks ago and its dead already 😢. I ran it on its side and the liquid metal seeped through the foam barrier and dripped down onto the cpu. Totally bricked, and no response from minisforum.
Have you overclocked it? I was thinking of leaving it the way you say but I'm afraid to do it because of what you said
🤦 Why would you run this on it's side? And minisforum is easy to get a hold of. Not only do they accept texts, and have a # to call, but they also have email support. Not sure why people have so many issues with their CS, they are easy to deal with.
It's because of something that the VESA Bracket comes with, right? Or is it just decoration?@@mistwha
It's a nice little system, i wonder how well those would work out as a low power cluster system for processing Academic and Scientific data.
Tell the ngreedia zealots at Ngreedia Unboxed who claim that AMD APUs will never be good for any gaming.
Anyways, thanks for another awesome video Wendell!!
Any wifi connectivity issues??
I'm new to mini PCs, so had some questions:
1. How does the UM790 Pro compare to the GTR7 Pro?
2. With these third-party companies, I've seen a lot of posts about reliability issues and the PCs failing. Are they worth going for over something like a NUC from Intel?
NUCs are being discontinued
official intel NUC's are being discontinued but from what I read there will be other vendor's filling the gap@@snowwsquire
@@nit3h8wk81 If he's worried about reliability then it not being made by intel is a problem
Both are fine options. Get whichever has the better deal. Just add heatsinks to your ram and or nvme ssd.
@@travislowrider6623is there room for hwatsinks? Some are large. Which ones?
YASSSSSSSSS MORE MINIPCS!@!!#
Do these mini pc's allow fast ssd's? Like the sn850x and 990pro's ??
Yes, no problem. I have Solidigm P44 Pro 1TB.
Got my hands on one of these today. Love the CPU portion, it's amazingly efficient. However the memory section is very disappointing and the GPU ends up being such as an extension. Between the 2:1 memory ratio and the FCLK at 1400MHz, the poor thing ends up being very bandwidth limited.
Taking it apart wasn't the most amazing experience in terms of serviceability, but I at least have a second M.2 slot.
For a benchmark, I ran Cyberpunk 2077 at 1080p ultra with RT reflections on and no FSR. It ran at about 18 FPS, which is impressive for a relatively hamstrung iGPU. I wish AMD released a desktop version of it to try and see how far it can go with an overclock.
Great video as always, by the way!
I also have one since mid-July. It is not a stable computer, windows restarts randomly and, also, every time you connect something to it for the first time (mice, keyboards, monitors, flash drive) it also restarts after a couple of minutes. Have you had these kinds of problems?
Does this system have a dedicated gpu? Please explain, I’m learning, thanks.
Yes. It's part of the cpu.
I really wish one of these companies just made a "pi on steriods" for home labs. It needs two SATA, two LAN, serial instead of a graphics card to keep the cost down and similar CPU and RAM to this.
Latte panda or zima board?
@@Level1Techs LattePanda comes pretty close, yes. For my use case I need 2.5g networking and more RAM. It'll happen sooner or later I'm sure...
Why bother with slow Sata when you could have M. 2nvme?
Virtualisation?
I see those M.2 PCIe to SATA adapters everywhere so I wonder if anyone is using them in a mini PC or a laptop as a NAS, if so what could you use to power the HDDs? I don't think using 12v and 5v from the motherboard would be ideal if you're adding 3-4 HDDs cuz they can consume like 30-40W if they all spin up at the same time. Would love to get some ideas if anyone has a similar setup.
In a desktop you could just use the PSU but I'm looking for something more efficient to use with an old skylake laptop motherboard and using a full on ATX power supply for 4 HDDs seems overkill.
Maybe look into desktop hdd bays? Something like ICY BOX IB-RD3620SU3
If you truly want a NAS: network-attached storage and nothing else then you can use an Intel J4125 or N95-based mini PC (should be about $100-150) and something like a Mediasonic Probox ($100) which as more than enough bandwidth for 4 hard drives. You can also buy 8 and 10-bay devices.
I have a Syba SY-ENC50119 8-bay one that just plugs into USB 3.0 It's perfectly suited for this task.
@@tim3172 Yes there are many options If I go for new/used hardware but my goal was really to reuse old equipment that's just collecting dust but it's perfectly capable of running a NAS along with Docker for everything I can imagine using. I'm def going for those engineering sample/laptop CPU boards at some point, saw them on Wolfgang's Channel ~$150-200 for an 11th gen mobile Intel board seems like a great deal and they come with full PCIe slots.
@@Mervinion That or a thunderbolt enclosure would be a good options also but I'd really like to stick to PCIe instead of USB that way I'm not buying hardware I might not be able to use in another use case. I might do that if I can't come up with another solution. I'm comfortable putting together a couple of buck converters that takes 19v from laptop's power adapter and gives you 5V and 12V but I wonder if such a solution already exists with protections built in.
I bought it. Will report back on arrival.
If only these had DisplayPort. I'm no fan of adapter everything. And I definitly don't want to plug my monitor in to the front of a device. Otherwise I had ordered this thing when it got announced.
Only concern I have that wasn't addressed here was memory temps. Had a UM690 that the memory would overheat like crazy on. How were the temps looking?
Buys 3. Masters one, Slaves the other two as asynchronous GPU and AI Compute clusters.
Now- you're gaming on 24 cores (8 Local, 16 Virtual), iGPU V-Compute (2304 total CUs) 768 (Local Compute Units). LAN Clustering ads AI NPC conversations and reactions to surroundings.
I got one and i use it as my travaling firewall, with pfsense(vpn, plus fail over triple usb stic 4g/5g connection) vrtualized on proxmox and some other CT(gitea, traefik, and some custom Containers i Need for work when i travel).
Damn small and light perfect for travel and very small power consumption and i can use it on my Bluetti for a full day.
I suppose is good for light desktop usage, but i cloned the windows install without even launch it.
once. Offcourse is not good for a storage. solution.
Repeating from the GTR7, been waiting for this generation for HTPC replacement. Finally 4k@120.
On RAM, default is probably DDR5-5600 CL48 1.1v. Can probably throw some DDR5-5600 CL40 1.1v in. I'd be skeptical whether it could handle DDR5-6000+ with almost guaranteed necessary increased voltage.
AMD RAIDing the SSDs is kind of suck with the loss of TRIM (afaik still). It is a crime that MS has not moved the ball forward with their Storage Spaces EFI Driver. The Surface Pro boots from a 2-drive Storage Spaces, but it's not otherwise available.
I am looking for ddr5, can you please tell me what kind of ddr5 do i have to buy ?
You can only use 1.1v so dimm 262-pin with this minipc and most ddr5 laptops, so the best memory you can get is "Kingston FURY Impact" 5600mhz cl40. They got 16gb, 32gb and 64gb kits. Their highest profile is Jedec Spec so you don't need to change anything in the bios.
@@robbazarchive i asked minisforum and the support team told me that Fury Kingston aren't compatible and they don't work.
@@TorchCTI perhaps i will buy the same as you
I had mine less than a week ago and sent it back to amazon on the same day it came in the mail. The wifi card was terrible. My acer Nitro 5 can download at over 500Mb/s. The Mini PC barely got 50 Mb/s. I even tried putting a TP Link Archer wireless adapter to boost speed. It conflicted with my wireless mouse no matter what USB port I used. Most likely because it isn't equipped with enough PCIE lanes to handle those 4 USB ports on the back. I even had a 220 dollar coupon and thought it was a ripoff. Over 1000 dollars Canadian is way too much for this. I mean if you're building something that can game you need enough pcie lanes. You need fast wifi to download big games. It's a great start, but these Mini PCs are clearly unfinished. I won't be buying one for quite a while yet.
Anyone knows if getting the 32gb ram version does it come in one ram stick or 2x16gb?
2 x 16GB (I just got it)
@@felipe_rm thanks mate.. How would you rate the cooling system? Is there enough ventilation to cool the ram and memory controllers?
@@cedrust4111 I got it 2 days ago so I really haven’t put stress on it. I’ve basically been configuring Windows, installing software, and surfing the web. Both days I have had it ON for about 5 hours a day, in an ambient temperature of between 28 and 30º Celcius. Never got hot, always stayed cool. But then again, I haven't used it for any heavy work so far
My vote for HX80G over HX99G or UM790 pro.
My reasons are:
- DDR5 still not completely developed for high efficiency versus speed/latency. Right now, ddr4 is enough for 1080p or even 1440p gaming.
- Thunderbolt or USB4 support for external gpu needs better speed and latency in some games like shooters, so best option is an oculink adapter for m.2 slot, you could do this in hx80g too.
- Performance difference between 5800H, 5900HX, 6900HX even 7940HS is very little (10%-15%) compared with price gap between these models.
- Under my assumption. 7940HX for now didn't exist, and 7945HX, based on news and rumors, will be used for new mini pc with desktop gpu support. This is not interesting for me, because i'm interested in mobile gpu efficiency, and low overall consumption, that's not going to be the case.
😍
funny how other reviewers tested this and found it quite capable to more then just e-sport... no talk about stupid streaming games... yes you won't run ultra on the new games... but it can play Cyberpunk 2077
Hi
USB4 has Thunderbolt 4? I think it only has TB3, right?
Shipping it with RAID0 is pretty brave.
Keeping it that way is even more brave.
USB networking FTW. Honestly, I wish we would just skip this whole 2.5Gbps and start making some USB 3.2x2 and 4 switches. Most teck already comes with USB 3 and the speeds are faster.
And with USB 4 V2 you will be able to go up to 120Gbps one way, which would be very useful for rsyncs and ZFS mirroring. The switches would offload much of the bottleneck in the configuration Wendell showed.
And Macs have had ethernet over Thunderbolt since they first came out with it.
USB cables are also much cheaper than optical cables and transceivers, so the cost will continue to go down.
Problem is that there is not much hardware offload in usb4 so all packet processing needs to be done in software. That makes whole process slow even though link is fast, but as Wendell said; software can always be improved.
@@adamlis8112 Or, and this is a long shot, we can offload that processing to the USB switch.
If we connect to the switch with PCIe, it looks just like an ethernet controller, or a DPU or any other device. We simply talk to it, and let it do the processing as a normal network card would.
Bonus, if all this is done at the switch, surely we can optimize it to use less resources?
I am not envisioning something massive, but lets say it is a 4-8 port switch max, with one Ethernet 10G or so out to the actual network.
Communication shouldn't need to be as complicated if you know the massive bandwidth can avoid going out to the internet.
Y'all ever seen those videos about how you can change the letter placement in words, and, as long as the start and finish are correct, people will generally be able to read them?
Every time I scroll past this video I'm wondering what I'm being misinformed about...
WITH RNDA 4 THEN ITLWIN
How dumb, USB4 connector on the front of the machine. To bad.
Waiting for Minisforum to update the HX99G series... maybe with Nvidia onboard gpu instead of AMD
Apparently the next gen of ryzen apus will be comparable to a 4070 🤩
@@hysscovent From what I heard, more like 4060. In any case, the current HX99G and that 'laptop in a case' Intel one, with 3070 mobile, will no longer be worthwhile, as the next APUs will likely be just as powerful.
But those are over a year away, unfortunately.
They won't update the HX99. It's pretty much discontinued out of the box because of the next APUs.
@@mistwha The next gen APUs are still a long way away, and except for the rumored Sarlak 120W monster they still won't come close to the 6600m. With the now released 7900m, a new mini PC with that would be nice.
We got completely different definitions on what low power means, why does it require a 120W brick?
Headroom
If you plug in power demanding peripherals the power has to come from the power brick. Phones can pull up to 30+watts for charging these days.
Pitty they dont ship your paid for products. Waiting for 2 months now, no replies or answers, no status changes, nothing. Money gone im afraid...
Want to see minisforum and beelink to make a cpu+gpu combo mini-pc. Like a 6 core amd cpu (laptop chip) and then throw in a dedicated AMD GPU, laptop or otherwise. would make for an epic gaming machine.
They do i think! Check out minisforum hx99g
Mini already makes one which he talked about in this video....🤦
@@mistwha Take the time of my post into consideration. AT THE TIME they did NOT offer a CPU+GPU combo. They were all straight CPU that has the GPU built in AKA APU. The new 7735+6600 isn't bad per say. HOWEVER, the 7735 is last gen technology. Only the 7840 (aka 7x40) are the new zen4 products that use the newer processor technology. So no, they at the time did not offer it, and while they do not, its not the best they could do.....
Apple is done 😂😂
We ordered two of these on 6 july 2023. they took the payment and not even a tracking number or a shipping notice. WE HAVE EMAILED ASKING WHAT IS HAPPENING ... NOTHING. is ANYONE else having this issue?
Who needs AMD RAID ... you can just use Windows Storage Spaces which comes with Windows 11.
The mini PC loses it's appeal for me when it starts to hit this price range. The appeal is cheap and cheerful.
Ummm
You forgot to mention: no and never bios updates
1000000000000000%, Beelink and Minisforum are abysmal with BIOS/uefi updates.
@@tim3172they have updated the um690 bios 4 times and this one twice....🤔🤦
Bkmrk
These Mini pc's aren't worth their value when they go over $400 - 500. This one here Wendell is reviewing cost of $1,159 Canadian At this price you could get a nice system with RTX 3080. I could even get a nice system with RX 6800 XT. If your buying this to save space you must be living in a 4 by 4 square box. For a nice server or media Center you can get one for $100 to $150 and it would still simulate games just fine.
if you do not need a gpu why build a whole pc? Try making a system with this um790 cpu performance, size, cooling, noise and see the price.
@@panagiotis6019 I'm not sure if your justifying paying the price but most mini pc's are Almost noise free. While the performance might be good it's actually underperforming since the fan rpm have been capped. So you may not be getting full performance for what you paid for. I have 6th gen i5 6500t Hp mini pc $150. I can do anything within reason and it's very snappy.
In any case, Wendell said at the end of the video it's to expensive. It might be good but isn't worth $1,159.
I know it's been 2 mos, but the price is around $630 USD. And trying to build any PC with the same specs, and you're at around $1100 USD. Trust me, it's been tried several times. ATM, power supplies, video cards and Ram are still up in price. Hence why this is way cheaper and will run better than any comparable cost PC.