Exemplary point about rotaries; build it correctly and it will last. Also understanding why something fails keeps it from happening again. It's interesting how many people in the world of performance that opt to forgo many basic lessons like this.
Thanks for the rundown on Adaptronic! Love it. I design and install building automation systems that use I/O based controllers. Seems very similar and I want to dabble now!
Hell yes! You guys are such an inspiration to me. I'm currently also in the process of building my 13B and updating the wiring harness with helpful sources like HPA. Looking very forward to seeing potentially some rotary tuning content if that is even a possibility!
Glad to see it start. :) Also my experience with tech support at adaptronic has also been very good! Looking forward to your coverage of the ECU and any rotary specific knowledge you add! :)
Just keep chipping away mate Dhaval, no one starts at the top, not even Andre and he's still learning everyday 🤓 Cheers on the Vlogging kudos too, turns out that is actually quite hard to do I've just found out. Andre makes it look so easy 😂 - Taz.
impressed with Rotaries during track days but never seen them last longer than couple 20 mins sessions. Great at shooting flames and oil out the exhaust
Probably just 20 mins before they need some gas 😂 There's an active class or two of them here which is going strong, both in terms of reliability and numbers. Awesome to see them on track - Taz.
It's weird being able to start it and drive it around instead of pushing it all the time 😂 Starts like a charm too at these winter temps, Andres got that well sorted on the Adaptronic - Taz.
FD RX7s are gorgeous cars that just don't show their age. I'd love to get familiar with them and rotory engines...then build a 4 rotor turbo monster like the 787B.
Awesome to see the car running. Question/concern though. Do you plan on keeping the small printed plug bracket, and if so what material is it printed from? Normal PLA will not withstand the heat in a car's cabin after a day of sitting out in the sun, and is definitely not suited for engine bay use. Other options are PETG and ABS. While more slightly annoying to print, they will withstand higher ambient temps much better.
Keeping it indeed, it has been printed using ABS 🤘 Brandon did some research on things once he was up to speed on it all/the test roll that came with the printer was empty haha For printing with ABS he found the temp in the room is a bit more critical. As it's winter here unless we keep a heater on it will curl off the bed due to cooling too fast. Other than that, no issues though - Taz.
Outstanding work again guys! This Saturday I'm starting up my 13b Roadster for the first time, lets see how that will go as I've also put the whole lower VE table to 50 haha. And it's also white. How did you setup the staging for the injectors? At what rpm do they start coming in and over how many rpm do they ramp up to 100%? I know this isn't neccesary to know for first startup but it's one of those things that is hard to find good info on online. Some people blend them in very gradually where others plonk them in hard to get a sort of "kick" or whatever. Thanks!
Secondary injectors factory start coming in around 3400rpm. But if running standalone you can decide. Think on mine they start coming in at 4k slowly stage in progressively to 100%. As they stage start at 25% off top of my head....would all depend on what size primary and secondary injectors you are running also. This is only my reference using a motec M4 (old)!
It actually depends what you want to. achieve. In the case of the Adaptronic it does all the hard work for you. Assuming you want to maximise fuel delivery, the ECU will run the primaries up to a safe maximum duty cycle you can define. Then the ECU will just automatically start bringing in the secondaries as required. It's quite neat and doesn't require and work from the tuner. On the other hand with some N/A engines we may want to stage fully to the secondaries that might be mounted outside the inlet trumpets. This can be accomplished by setting the staging numbers at high rpm/load to 100%. Ultimately if you're running an ECU that requires you to set the staging it's just a matter of watching the primary/secondary duty cycles and choosing staging values to make sure that both stay under control.
@@hpa101 @BoostHit Thanks guys! My engine is N/A, I will look at the primary dutycycle to determine a proper staging point. Since the secondaries are a lot higher up in the intake manifold they should provide a better fuel/air mixture at higher RPM's if I'm correct. The ECU I run is a Megasquirt MS3x with 640cc EV14 injectors primary and secondary.
Just a hop, skip and a short swim over here mate, do it 😉 Actually, depending where you are located it could be a smaller move distance wise than to another part of Australia to be fair! - Taz.
I have the Adaptronic modular ECU and the rywire harness for my FD RX7, but still haven’t got the tachometer to work. Even selected the 2rotor in the function tab - tacho. Any suggestions? I love the courses by the way.
Adaptronic must have really bad quality testing for these modular ECUs because we have had lots of issues with them in the UK turning up broken (including myself). We hardly use them here now, instead we go for link ECUs instead.
Would over fueling cause white smoke? Thought you got black with over fuel. Looked more like it was the vaseline inside the engine used in rotary assembly burning off
It's not a freshly built engine so if someone has been inside it with a jar of vaseline I'd want to know why! It does however run on premix which can result in white and blue smoke when the mixture is overly rich.
Honestly it's a mixed bag. I'm not a believer in knock control on a rotary engine since you need to induce knock in order to validate the system which can in itself cause damage - particularly with stock seals. Generally the aim is to use conservative timing and keep yourself away from knock. Audio knock detection on the other hand is still viable but you may find that if you hear knock it's already too late - Andre
Thanks for the reply Andre, having my FD tuned Sunday as like you my tuner is not a believer either. What about EGTs ? Currently without but thinking at later date to add a sensor in each runner.
We don't build rotary engines, however with the few fresh builds we've broken in on the dyno we've run them pretty much the same as a piston engine. It's always best to consult your engine builder.
I'm uncertain, but unlikely. TunerStudio is the only Mac supported tuning software I personally know of. Doesn't mean it's the only one of course - Taz
That's the great thing about wheels - It's a personal choice and only the person who owns the wheels really needs to like them. We quite like them in this 18" fitment.
@@joelanger92 I'd be interested to hear what control issues you're having? The inability to get someone from Adaptronic on a phone call is a pita however they've been pretty prompt in replying to my emails.
@@hpa101 bit late reply, but I had to tune fd couple days ago with Adaptronic ecu. Middle of tuning session ecu decided to quit wastegate control completely. When checking mechanical things related to wastegate control, we toggled ignition off and on multiple times. While doing this, ecu went and randomly inserted multiple 0 cells in fuel map! Luckily we caught this while accelerating slowly as one of the cells zeroed out was in vacuum area of the map at around 4000rpm.
Are you in contact with Vlad? Some of the team here have been and while I don't have an update from this week in general he's fine and has been working and also travelling for work. Things are far from normal but behind the scenes of what you see in the news there is a level of normality for some and has been for some time - Taz.
@hpa101 I have no idea who vlad is im justba regular internet troll. Good to know he's okay though. Also love the content keep up the good work. Jtspiky
![HPA Workshop Tour | Ep 8 [OFF THE RECORD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Un2NLNQzJF0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Is Dyno Tuning Accurate? | FD RX7 Project Track Testing | Ep 3 [#BUILD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZhka7aPJKU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Our FD RX7 Project | Ep 1 [OFF THE RECORD]](/img/n.gif)
Can't wait to take this for a fang, so close! I will, of course, be wearing my HPA tee when I do, got yours yet? shop.hpacademy.com/ - Taz 👨🏻
Who would ever sell a car that clean!? Couldn't be in better hands, can't wait to see the coming updates! :-).
Just wait till Andre tries to change gears in it 😂 - Taz.
Exemplary point about rotaries; build it correctly and it will last. Also understanding why something fails keeps it from happening again. It's interesting how many people in the world of performance that opt to forgo many basic lessons like this.
I’m not an expert on building wiring harnesses, yet. But one day I’d love to work for a shop like yalls! Keep up the awesome work and videos!
Happy to learn about rotaries with you guys
Just perfect guys, you have a great team yourself Included spot on..👍👍👍👍
Pretty lucky to have the team here we do. Even that Ben guy is alright 😂 - Taz.
Thanks for the rundown on Adaptronic! Love it. I design and install building automation systems that use I/O based controllers. Seems very similar and I want to dabble now!
Hell yes! You guys are such an inspiration to me. I'm currently also in the process of building my 13B and updating the wiring harness with helpful sources like HPA. Looking very forward to seeing potentially some rotary tuning content if that is even a possibility!
The FD is TIMELESSS!!!
Never get sick of looking at them. Certainly surpassed the Porsche they were originally copying with some of the earlier series eh! - Taz.
@@hpa101 I don't even remember which Porsches they were supposedly copying but this silhouette I recognize no matter what
J. M. The FC looked similar to the 944.
Amazing vid
Glad to see it start. :) Also my experience with tech support at adaptronic has also been very good! Looking forward to your coverage of the ECU and any rotary specific knowledge you add! :)
I got a dead on arrival M6000 as well (had an issue where it fired all the injectors at key on.)
Mark sorted it all out no questions asked ;)
Lol... How I wished I was qualified enough for a job at HPA 😂...
Great work on the vlogs! Kudos to Andre's vlogging skills 🥂
Just keep chipping away mate Dhaval, no one starts at the top, not even Andre and he's still learning everyday 🤓
Cheers on the Vlogging kudos too, turns out that is actually quite hard to do I've just found out. Andre makes it look so easy 😂 - Taz.
@@hpa101 good advise right there 💪
You hit the nail on the head re reliability, tuning knowledge and consistent maintenance is key. Do you know any good tuners?? 🤔😉
The adaptronic is a nice ecu.
impressed with Rotaries during track days but never seen them last longer than couple 20 mins sessions. Great at shooting flames and oil out the exhaust
Probably just 20 mins before they need some gas 😂 There's an active class or two of them here which is going strong, both in terms of reliability and numbers. Awesome to see them on track - Taz.
Longer than 20 minutes ? You mean like the Le Mans 24 hour or Bathurst 12 hour .....
Finally the rx7 is braping!!!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
It's weird being able to start it and drive it around instead of pushing it all the time 😂 Starts like a charm too at these winter temps, Andres got that well sorted on the Adaptronic - Taz.
"That came with the building" LOL
FD RX7s are gorgeous cars that just don't show their age. I'd love to get familiar with them and rotory engines...then build a 4 rotor turbo monster like the 787B.
That's Andres dream build. Wants to have it underway within the next 4 years as a long term project - Taz.
@@hpa101 I'll be here to see that!💪
Yes....been that way since the late 70's.
Awesome since ages ago you reckon. Good man 😎 - Taz.
Awesome work boys! Good video aye
I was convinced it had a massive bridge port when I heard it start lol
One day haha - Taz.
BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP
Awesome to see the car running. Question/concern though. Do you plan on keeping the small printed plug bracket, and if so what material is it printed from? Normal PLA will not withstand the heat in a car's cabin after a day of sitting out in the sun, and is definitely not suited for engine bay use. Other options are PETG and ABS. While more slightly annoying to print, they will withstand higher ambient temps much better.
Keeping it indeed, it has been printed using ABS 🤘 Brandon did some research on things once he was up to speed on it all/the test roll that came with the printer was empty haha
For printing with ABS he found the temp in the room is a bit more critical. As it's winter here unless we keep a heater on it will curl off the bed due to cooling too fast.
Other than that, no issues though - Taz.
Outstanding work again guys! This Saturday I'm starting up my 13b Roadster for the first time, lets see how that will go as I've also put the whole lower VE table to 50 haha. And it's also white.
How did you setup the staging for the injectors? At what rpm do they start coming in and over how many rpm do they ramp up to 100%? I know this isn't neccesary to know for first startup but it's one of those things that is hard to find good info on online. Some people blend them in very gradually where others plonk them in hard to get a sort of "kick" or whatever. Thanks!
Secondary injectors factory start coming in around 3400rpm. But if running standalone you can decide. Think on mine they start coming in at 4k slowly stage in progressively to 100%. As they stage start at 25% off top of my head....would all depend on what size primary and secondary injectors you are running also. This is only my reference using a motec M4 (old)!
It actually depends what you want to. achieve. In the case of the Adaptronic it does all the hard work for you. Assuming you want to maximise fuel delivery, the ECU will run the primaries up to a safe maximum duty cycle you can define. Then the ECU will just automatically start bringing in the secondaries as required. It's quite neat and doesn't require and work from the tuner. On the other hand with some N/A engines we may want to stage fully to the secondaries that might be mounted outside the inlet trumpets. This can be accomplished by setting the staging numbers at high rpm/load to 100%.
Ultimately if you're running an ECU that requires you to set the staging it's just a matter of watching the primary/secondary duty cycles and choosing staging values to make sure that both stay under control.
@@hpa101 @BoostHit Thanks guys! My engine is N/A, I will look at the primary dutycycle to determine a proper staging point. Since the secondaries are a lot higher up in the intake manifold they should provide a better fuel/air mixture at higher RPM's if I'm correct. The ECU I run is a Megasquirt MS3x with 640cc EV14 injectors primary and secondary.
Man I wish you guys were based in Aus because I would leap at that opportunity to be your wiring guy!
Just a hop, skip and a short swim over here mate, do it 😉 Actually, depending where you are located it could be a smaller move distance wise than to another part of Australia to be fair! - Taz.
I have the Adaptronic modular ECU and the rywire harness for my FD RX7, but still haven’t got the tachometer to work. Even selected the 2rotor in the function tab - tacho. Any suggestions? I love the courses by the way.
Doritos 4ever!🙌
Specifically turbo rotaries are sensitive to ignition timing, NA rotaries don't really seem to care.
What type of material are you printing with in the engine bay?
Adaptronic must have really bad quality testing for these modular ECUs because we have had lots of issues with them in the UK turning up broken (including myself). We hardly use them here now, instead we go for link ECUs instead.
They apparently undergo a full test prior to shipping and it would seem this has been a post-QC failure. A little disappointing for sure.
Would over fueling cause white smoke? Thought you got black with over fuel. Looked more like it was the vaseline inside the engine used in rotary assembly burning off
It's not a freshly built engine so if someone has been inside it with a jar of vaseline I'd want to know why! It does however run on premix which can result in white and blue smoke when the mixture is overly rich.
Great update but wtf happened to your left eyebrow at 12.36ish
I'm guessing it's just the lighting. i can assure you it's still there and fully functional ;) Andre
It’s Monday-Garfield
Mondays are always tough...
Is there any reason you didn’t build the wiring harness yourself?
Ummm... do you mean any reasons beyond the reasons I explained inside the vlog? 🤔
High Performance Academy I did see that Zack has left but I just thought you had more than one wiring guru. Was just curious
@@winnieHannaway no unfortunately. Zac has pretty big boots to fill!
What are your thoughts regarding using knock sensor when tuning FDRX7?
Honestly it's a mixed bag. I'm not a believer in knock control on a rotary engine since you need to induce knock in order to validate the system which can in itself cause damage - particularly with stock seals. Generally the aim is to use conservative timing and keep yourself away from knock. Audio knock detection on the other hand is still viable but you may find that if you hear knock it's already too late - Andre
Thanks for the reply Andre, having my FD tuned Sunday as like you my tuner is not a believer either. What about EGTs ? Currently without but thinking at later date to add a sensor in each runner.
@@markdavis8056 EGT is definitely nice to have. Not always an essential input but definitely helpful.
what kind of engine break-in do rotaries need? I imagine it's different from piston engines
We don't build rotary engines, however with the few fresh builds we've broken in on the dyno we've run them pretty much the same as a piston engine. It's always best to consult your engine builder.
Is that software running on a Mac???
I'm uncertain, but unlikely. TunerStudio is the only Mac supported tuning software I personally know of. Doesn't mean it's the only one of course - Taz
@@hpa101 thanks for the reply! Yeah I was getting all excited 😂👍🏼
The keys left in chime on the fd3s gives me anxiety
Its days are numbered... - Taz
Honestly those wheels look much better on smaller diameters.
That's the great thing about wheels - It's a personal choice and only the person who owns the wheels really needs to like them. We quite like them in this 18" fitment.
@@hpa101 What are the offsets of the wheels please? Would love a set for my rx! :D
First warning, get rid of the adpatronic, mines a nightmare doesn't control properly at all, full of faults, no support
should add I've had 3 under warranty
@@joelanger92 I'd be interested to hear what control issues you're having? The inability to get someone from Adaptronic on a phone call is a pita however they've been pretty prompt in replying to my emails.
@@hpa101 bit late reply, but I had to tune fd couple days ago with Adaptronic ecu. Middle of tuning session ecu decided to quit wastegate control completely. When checking mechanical things related to wastegate control, we toggled ignition off and on multiple times. While doing this, ecu went and randomly inserted multiple 0 cells in fuel map! Luckily we caught this while accelerating slowly as one of the cells zeroed out was in vacuum area of the map at around 4000rpm.
Vlads currently in a war zone & not available at the moment
Are you in contact with Vlad? Some of the team here have been and while I don't have an update from this week in general he's fine and has been working and also travelling for work.
Things are far from normal but behind the scenes of what you see in the news there is a level of normality for some and has been for some time - Taz.
@hpa101 I have no idea who vlad is im justba regular internet troll. Good to know he's okay though. Also love the content keep up the good work. Jtspiky