I dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly forgot the login password. I love any tricks you can offer me.
@Garrett Fernando I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm in the hacking process atm. Takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
So, I dunno if this has been addressed before, or not, but as much fun as DYI may be, wouldn't it be just as cost effective to buy the bigger Elac Debut Reference DBR62? Is there a comparison on the B2 upgrade vs the stock Reference series?
I think this is for people like me who already own this speaker. Why chase the dream buying better and better speakers when you could just upgrade what you have? The reference, while better than these, will still have cheap crossover components, and the urge to upgrade them will still be there for us tinkerers. I'm only willing to pay so much for speakers. I've pretty much hit my limit. Unless you offer me some Forte 4's for 1K, which I would still have to upgrade :)
You can't go on a rant about flat earthers who refuse to look at the "evidence" and then provide NO EVIDENSE WHATSOEVER in any of your videos to prove that premium quality parts make a measurable difference. You put a lot of effort into showing response charts before and after a redesign (different values/config to produce a better response and phase alignment), but I have never seen a distortion chart from you demonstrating that premium parts reduce distortion all other things being equal.
I have two pairs of these. The only complaint I have is the same as the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers, they are a little dull at the top. Look for my order.
Hi Daniel. I just did the upgrade and discovered a lot of interference with the crossover and the plastic air ports on one speaker which caused me to modify the layout for the second crossover assembly. Even with the tweeter coil laying flat on the 2nd speaker, I had to modify the plastic port. My recommendation is to separate the Tweeter and Woofer crossovers and mount them on the inner rear side walls. What say you? My first LP on the new ELAC's was Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It was like sitting in the midst of a live orchestra - - - - - WOW.
It seems like a little cabinet tweaking and targeted XO component upgrading should get the 6.2 close to the reference 6.2. I'd love to order the GR 6.2 kit, but it would cost something like $800 in Canada, which is twice what the speakers cost me new.
Danny I found that by applying rope style window putty to the frames made a huge difference. These are amazing speakers for the price. Those saying different probably don’t want to believe the sound quality can be that good at their price point. I will be in touch about the Cover upgrades. 👍🏻
$1800 Polk audio had one good part: a ring tweeter. ($30). The rest? crap. Andrew Jones could help polk out, but if polk made the Debut speakers, they'd cost 3x as much for the same thing.
Thanks a lot for your video. Can't stop thinking you have to do some upgrade to the DBR62 now, because it will be a best seller and a lot of people will be interested.
Couldn't hear the cable/connector difference when in my 20s, other than connection/oxidation distortions - most likely I won't be convinced now, with way better drivers. But I learned how to do proper crossovers over the years, that don't stress tweeters playing too low.
@@pliedtka A reason why he never does anything but test at 1 watt, never has to worry about his tweeter mods then. He also never shows a phase plot that will look horrible with his added circuits.
We had one in house. It did not have a very linear response and was loaded with the same garbage parts the rest of them were. The problem was there was no room in the box for a three way crossover using quality parts.
Cable naysayers simply ask for recordable evidence. A simple recording and graphing under controlled conditions would suffice. Otherwise, it's just all "trust me, bro" science. If you can hear a difference, then it can be recorded. After all, what is sound but pressure waves? There's nothing you can hear that a mic can't pick up.
Hey Danny! If you could, would you be able to tell me how to take the speakers out of a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 11.2's? I have some issues with them that I would like to try to take a look at and any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. The problem is that there are no exposed screws on the bass or tweeter drivers. Thank you!
I heard these a few times and this high frequency drop was heard as dull , tamed top with no sparkle and airless what tilted the presentation to bass heavy . I thought it maybe have been done on purpose by Andrew Jones for a better match to today's bass heavy , air/ harmonics less highs for today's so called R&B music? For me being 47 i would much rather hear a boost of highest frequency to better match my hearing that drops down at 14K 😉
@Pho Tato oh yeah politics of designing whole line and purposely "staining" performance of bottom models so more expencive models can sound better proportionally to price tag increase. Sad but true. This proceder makes you want to look at Danny's approach at GR where you get honest and not price politicized approach .
I thought the same thing until I boosted 16khz, now I love love love them. Even with eq the highs are not harsh, very easy to listen to, especially guitar strings.
I have this speaker and have been very impressed with the sound. I have no mechanical abilities. Any recommendation as to finding someone in my area who could do this for me?
@@elvirredzepovic6898 znaci ti tvrdis da na tvojim zvucnicima nije moguce cuti razliku u kvalitetu reprodukcije. sasvim je jasno da ce yt kompresija da oduzme deo utiska ali itekako se cuje razlika ukoliko je mikrofon i oprema za snimanje dobra tadodje uredjaji za reprodukciju moraju biti dovoljno kvalitetni..recimo da imas dobar dac i dbnro pojacalo i slusalice ,sasvim ces jasno cuti razliku u karakteru zvuka ,ne mora nesto nuzno da bude bolje ili losije dovoljno je da ima karakter koji ti se svidja.zvuk je dosta subjetivna stvar.
Well, if you're so certain about speakes cables and interconnects making such a difffeence and want to prove the nay-sayers wrong, then why don't you provide some measurements to back up your claims?
Measurements that we are capable of taking don't tell us the whole story and don't really quantify what we hear. For instance one cable provides better image separation than another. How do you measure that?
I have plenty of room, and I have heard amazing difference in the Elac Debut 2.0 Tower speakers just by changing the distance I keep from the back wall. Huge Difference. That, and removing the grill from the tweeter changes the audio experience, significantly.
Also have the f6.2 towers. Pulling the mesh off the tweeters helped the high end a lot. They also sound best a minimum 12" or so from back wall. Also try plugging the bottom port with foam. Really tightened up the lower bass. (I'm using a sub crossed around 85hz)
Switching woofer coil from low R to linear but higher R coil is a bad idea in 2D speaker, you just loose about 1db of bass. I do not mention change of Qes and caused by this required change of box volume...
Oh yes i just come to impedance chart, you really blow up the woofer to box adjusting (see my comment about Qes), see the woofer resonance deep at original and your chart....
I found the center channel for $150, and the 6.2’s for $150 a pair on Amazon a couple years ago! Does this kit come with step by step directions? What to remove and what to solder to what? Is there a kit for the center channel as well? Thank you!
I'm sorry but I don't see the reason or justification in spending 350.00 to "correct" a 200.00 pair of speakers. So you are looking at almost 600.00 for these not including your time/labor. For 600.00 you are in a whole different level of quality options for speakers that these would never get close to. For that I'll buy a better pair of speakers that I don't have to correct and still save money.
Correct. When you're at the $600 price point, check out the Elac Debut Reference model. I like the D6.2 model, but the Debut Reference has a better cabinet structure, slotted front port, better (vinyl) veneer and a more refined sound. I've applied some crossover mods to a previous pair of B6.2 Elacs I had by changing one of the caps and 2 of the resistors. To my ears, the sound was improved a bit and the cost was only about $12.00 for the parts, plus shipping.
Stepping up to the $600 retail price point won't buy you much more in terms of quality parts or performance. You'll see the same budget level parts holding them back, and needing the same upgrades.
Surely starting with a cabinet built from plans or an off the shelf cab with higher quality components would be a better starting place. Its something I'd like to try. Building a speaker, buying nice components and putting the time in rather than trying to polish up a built to price speaker. Does Danny have kits or plans for that sort of thing?
We have kits that we feel offers the best performance and value at each price point up to cost no object speakers. You can view them on our website and see lots of builds in our forum at the Audio Circle.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks i just saw the final klipsch video and the credit to your kit speaker. I'll look over what you offer. I am in the uk so there maybe a few more considerations.
This is how it's always been and it's the same in any other industry. The sum that you pay for is far greater than the cost of the parts themselves. That pair of $250 speakers is worth $50 in parts. That $1000 phone is worth $300-$500 in parts. The same will be true for basically anything else manufactured and sold in this capitalist world.
On Black Friday of 2018, all the retailers were selling the ELAC B6.2 for $75.00 each. I bought 4 but I wish I had bought 8. Audio Advisor was sold out and I had to backorder through Crutchfield. They must have sold thousands.
I'm interested in this upgrade but not really sure if it will help with my main issue with this speaker which is the treble sounds a bit subdued and lacks sparkle, that and how import taxes and postage to the uk adds up.
Hi Danny, What would be the difference in sound quality between these modified Elac debut 2.0 vs Your XL-S Encore kit? Or would it be better to compare the modified Elac 2.0 to the sound quality of the NX-Studio? As of right now I own the JBL Studio 230. I think they are pretty good speakers. I'm just wanting to upgrade to something on another level that won't break the bank to much. My wife and I do 50/50 with listening to music and movies. Our listening room size is 14x12. JBL Studio 230's JBL Studio 235 center 2x Rogers Speedwoofer subwoofers To me the JBL STUDIO 230's are just a little muffled in the mid range. It's probably the cheap materials in the crossovers they used. Maybe a JBL Studio 230 upgrade kit would take them to another level. Still not a bad set of bookies for the price. Thank you...
The X-LS Encore still uses higher quality drivers and even with the same internal parts it is still at a different level. The NX Studio monitors are in a different league. That is a cost no object conversation for a stand mounted speaker.
@@dannyrichie9743 Hi Danny, For someone that listens to music and movies with the same system would the NX Studio work for both? I would imagine so. I doubt you'll make a center channel for the NX Studio line. Maybe the imaging on the NX studios are so good you won't need a center channel. Maybe Paul from the Audio Circle forum will start making a flat pack for the NX Studio boxes.
I'll be ordering this kit. I can't get over how big speakers look on your table vs how small they look on my speaker stands. Edit: I have upgraded the left speaker so far. it sounds so good, the pair sounds bad when played together. The balance has to be moved 3/10 to the right to even hear the speaker with the old crossover. And when I hear it, I want to turn it off, it sounds more tinny and shouty. The new crossover is punchy and clean (maybe as much to do with the No-Rez as the crossover). I'm just glad I have an amp that likes 4 ohm speakers. These Elacs WERE rated at 6 ohm and this kit brings them down to LESS than 4 ohm. The parts themselves were a bit of a challenge to get together in a space small enough to fit in the cabinet while keeping the inductors far enough apart. I managed, but I would like to see other people's solutions to this problem. I also found that both grills resonate at 72 Hz.. maybe not at listening levels, but while testing I was concerned I had done something wrong, until I removed the grills and discovered they were doing the buzzing.
Everything I read out there about this kit (and in the comments here) seems to suggest a price around that of the speakers themselves for this upgrade kit. But when I go to the website, it's listing $579 + around $25 shipping. Am I looking in the correct place? I really wanted to try this out, but if the kit is really approaching 3x the cost of the speakers themselves (picked em up on sale) I'm not sure if perhaps my money is better spent upgrading my amp to an Emotiva or something for half the price? Or maybe picking up an SVS sub to pair with them. I'm not complaining, the price is the price. I just want to verify I'm looking at the same thing this video is talking about and seeing what everyone thinks about where to put my $600 in my audio system. Many of you here that experienced the kit said it was worth it. Still think it would be worth it at today's price? I love Danny and his videos BTW, I've learned so much from him! Would love to get some of his products one day when I can afford it.
Well, Danny, I’m a “flat earther” by your definition. I’m not taking an absolutist policy on this because everyone is different. I’m also not going to be told that I don’t want to hear evidence. You should stop saying things like that. I’m always open to evidence. Where we differ is how much can be measured vs how much can be perceived. If I can’t actually hear a difference then the measurements go for zip. Do I think $259 (about $400 Aussie) is worthwhile? It’s not a massive sum and maybe it’s worth a shot. But I will be convinced by my ears (I notice you don’t do before and after sound test demonstrations) and not by a couple of pieces of paper.
We actually do listen to a lot of speakers in stock form before we upgrade them. We also spend a LOT of time A/B comparing each part used. In this case the upgrade is fairly significant. Hearing is believing.
Hi Marcial. I had sent Danny one of my UB5 speakers in October to do testing on. Unfortunately it was damaged in shipping by UPS and they requested the speaker back to inspect to determine if they would pay the damage claim. So, I'm not sure if Danny had completed all the testing before UPS picked up the damaged speaker. What information he did share with me indicated that they had some issues which would be hard to fix due to space constraints inside the enclosure.
Hey Danny! I bought a pair of the Elac Debut B6 speakers for $200 right before the 2.0 came out. I love the sound and I'm really enjoying running them in. I'm happy with them now but at some point I'll be ready to upgrade. Should I go buy the 2.0 for almost $300 or should I buy your crossover kit for $ 300 plus? I'm leaning toward the latter because I would love the satisfaction of a successful DIY and am impressed with your video[s]. Am I making a false assumption that your 2.0 upgrade would be the same or similar in parts and cost? Would I have to ship my speakers for you to test? I'm not in a hurry because I have many more hours of "burn-in" ahead. Thanks for all the great info!!
I'm not sure how Danny does his measurements. This speaker does not sound natural. It is like the higher mids and treble are lifted ALOT. The sales, piano's and voices all have a "metallic" sound to it. Clearly something is really wrong with them. Becomes very harsh after a while. Danny can measure all the world, but if his ears are not able to pick up these utterly nasty treble symptoms...I dunno. Bought these speakers because of this review, but after a week playing with cables and equipment I returned them.
I've owned the 6.2's for three years and I couldn't disagree more . One of the more balanced and least harsh speakers I've heard in their price range imo - else I would have upgraded from them long ago . GR-Research's upgrades probably do improve the sound to another level - but they were already fine sounding speakers to begin with . ( the Elac's are one of the best sellers in their price category and I guessing that it's probably not because they sound horrible like you guys seem to be putting on about ) . Now someday hopefully I'll own a pair of JBL 100s or one of my other dream speakers but in the meantime these Elacs do a mighty fine job for what I paid for them . I really can't praise them enough .
Great video, as usual, Danny. I was pretty underwhelmed with my Elac Debut 2.0s initially. Love the idea of upgrading them but I think I'll just put that money towards an X-LS Encore kit.
I can't afford 300$ in parts sadly, thanks for doing the work you do though. Quick question, would there be any point of purchasing just the notch filter from you (if even possible) over just using EQ and a top shelve to lower that 1.5db bump at 750khz
Update as of 2020. I bought these and thought they were OK. A little dull sounding. So I bought a new premamp (Emotiva) and use it with and old QSC power amp (class C) Still not good . so I bought a new power amp(Emotiva) Still not good . So I bought a new DAC (Schiit) Still not happy. So I bought a new CD player. Not good enough. Then I did something crazy, I pulled out and old pair of Wharfedale Diamond V from many years ago. I haven't used these speakers in 15 years. To my surprise they sounded much better than the Elacs . I may have to get the upgrade.
audioscience forum is buzzing now... low only difference in speaker sound is Klippel measurements! I give this video a 4.3 rating and the 4.4 speaker sounds better
As a recent subscriber to your channel, I've been checking out many of your videos and like your approach to speaker design and modifications. As a subscriber to Speaker Builder magazine in the 1980s and 1990s, I got enough of the basic theory down to comprehend why your concern with quality parts is not some kind of snake oil. So I'm surprised with your comments on the cube earth. Why aren't you a proponent of the electric universe theory, where, if I understand it correctly, all forces in the universe are electromagnetic? Gravity and the ball earth are old hat . Proponents of string theory suggest that earth may actually be shaped like a spaghetti noodle. Who knows, anything might be better than believing in a model of the that requires an ivory soap percentage of it to be dark matter and dark energy! Or are you really a planetary physicist in disguise?
I don't know about speakers cables, but for signal cables I have today proof in the ears that my own made (best I could) xlr interconnects were inferior to the Benchmark media ones I just got. I am still processing, because it's huge. so Huge I thought I had bumped the setting of the sub, had to double check, and the overall volume went down so I had to check the db meter, and it was the same, in fact what happens is there is less garbage, so even at high volume there is less discomfort on the ears. Every sound is SHORTER in duration, meaning you can hear more of the before and after small sounds that are before and after a hit. When pushing volume the different furniture, plates, glasses, windows vibrations are much shorter lived and more varied. Again I don't understand yet, still processing ... I was not ready for such night and day difference. It's like a knife so sharp I cut myself. The quality of the contacts is also very high on the list of things that mus go well for signal to be good. The problem with this upgrade is if you just do it by ears, then you'll push the volume up to unreasonable spl. (and the speakers look to work way less, while spine and stomach get hit hard but short) All the titles i know and listen often for years now show me new layers, new things, or show the same things more obviously. It's like removing yet another grill. An an astonishing fact is that I don't need to recalibrate room eq, pink noise is even flatter than before. It is even flatter in all seats of the room, not just in my spot. So if signal cable do something, then speaker cables and internal speaker cables and connectors do, it's obvious.
Thanks for the video. I am thinking about doing this upgrade. Your measurements stop at 200 hz. What is the reason for this? How do these Elacs perform in the low end?
It makes more sense just to buy a high dollar speaker and have you fix it. Charge more than the speakers cost just makes more sense to buy better speakers.
Sounds good, but think one should buy them (and hear them) before upgrading, right. I'm not gonna invest in the upgraded before crashing my hears against the real thing. Thx to that guy down there who bought the kit & loved it. Think he had a pair before buying the kit.
cables make a difference , but at the same time some cable companies sell snake oil, often a cable if its the right cable at $40 can be as good as some $150 cables not always does more money mean its better or worth the diff.
Copper is still being copper regardless where it is. Yes, sure there might be some dodgy copper wires from China, but the rest of proper electrical copper cables are the same for the purpose of carrying low freq. signals if the cables have appropriate section of cource. One day we received a lot of backlash from Monster Cable distributor for us bashing their overhyped products by telling the truth about that to many our customers all over the town. Personally I've got nothing against their pricing, but with all the lies and all the other esoteric BS they say about their cables, the companies such as Monster Cables, Van Den Hul etc. they all fall under a definition of charlatans.
@@MSM5500 Build a pair of Canare L-2T2S interconnects and float the shield. Total cost will run about $12, including Nakamichi RCAs. After I had them in my system, I dumped all of my snake-oil crap. All of my interconnect cables are Canare, along with Canare 4S8 speaker cables. High-end audio on a budget, without the BS.
Thank you for amazing review, I have older version elac debut b6 and for me as new in audiophile world they sound amazing with my old marantz 2230 receiver :) Can I apply this upgrades and modification same as here? best regards
Any chance one of you nice folks has either a picture or drawing of how you laid out these upgrade parts? I am having a bit of a struggle keeping the dimensions on a single piece of MDF down to something that will fit in the enclosure. Not sure if I should trim off some of the leads coming off the inductors or what?
I never knew about tube connectors, but one of the upgrades I used to do was just running speaker wire straight into the cabinet through a hole that I drilled and then filling the hole with silicon so that it’s airtight. You end up with a speaker that has a permanent wire, running out of the back, but hey, it works.
So you want me to do all the design work and make the improvements then give it to you for free so that you can buy the parts somewhere else? I pretty much outline the whole thing right here and list a total for all of the parts: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138550.0
@@dannyrichie9743 Is there a chance I could hear somewhere online the difference between stock (I own a pair) Elac 6.2 and modified using your upgrade kit ? It would be encouraging to make a buying decision... :)
@@KonradSkowronski Hear the difference online? Playing back some sound clips from a compressed TH-cam file is not going to allow you to hear how significant the difference is.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh, it doesn't have to be compressed by YT sound file but for example 2 wave files to download from your site. Anyway, properly miked room/speakers can be kind of informative even via YT. If the upgrade is that good it should be audible even through not perfect online comparison IMHO.
Wait it's not a square world ? Lol I know someone who is a great guy no doubt. His favorite saying is..."all i know is""" Well that settles everything.
When upgrading the crossover, the parts are significantly larger. How does this effect the internal volume of the enclosure? Seems the smaller the speaker the more critical volume loss would would be. With the kit, would there be a suggested layout/placement of parts?
I'd mount them in the bottom of the cabinet. They take up very little air space. Adding a little more insulation about the size of your fist will make up for it.
What if the box resonance is intentionally tuned by the designer to aid the speaker's voicing and a DIYer modifies to remove the resonance? Why attack box resonance as an automatic point of modification?
Exactly. When you modify speaker/cabinets/crossovers they cease being what the manufacturer - designer (A.Jones) intended them to sound like. Might as well buy different speakers if you want a different sound.
Box resonances are never part of the design element. That would be like designing an amp to have a little hum, or building a new engine so that it has a little knock. Speakers are designed to accurately reproduce the input signal. Box resonances are never part of the input signal.
@@dannyrichie9743 I was asking based on forum discussions I've seen mentioning Harbeth and "BBC styled thin walled cabinets". This is from one of those discussions, but, I see it does not refute what you are saying. Thanks for responding! "The BBC wasn't trying to add to the speaker's sound. Their position was that a completely rigid cabinet would still reach resonance and ring at some audible level/frequency while a lossy cabinet would push "unwanted resonances downwards in amplitude and frequency so that they are adequately buried below the music and then pushed down in pitch" The quotation is from Alan Shaw of Harbeth. "It seems to me that the BBC / Harbeth objective is the same as the "rigid cabinet" school. They just (seem) to believe that the lossy construction is a better approach to the goal."
@@4991544 If a cabinet wall is flexing then it is adding or taking away from the input signal as it is not part of the input signal. And pushing it down to a lower wavelength involves an increase in the amount of flex and movement. And if you really hit the resonance frequency of the panel then it really comes alive. And is also harder to damp out a lower frequency resonance. If the resonance is higher then the magnitude is less and it is easy to damp out with No Rez. Then you have no coloration at all.
@@dannyrichie9743 I find your logic convincing. I also prefer it, as the idea of working with distortion as if it were one of the 'ingredients' in the recipe, rather than seeking to eliminate it outright, does seem absurd. Thanks for disabusing me of this one!
I'd take a look at Amir's video from Audio Science Review before running out and spending money on "audiophile" cables. He does a great job with objective measurements and clear evaluations.
@@dannyrichie9743 does the kit come with install instructions ? I want to do this upgrade but a bit apprehensive as I have never before performed a DIY cross over. This will be my first.
This was interesting... thanks for the rundown. I might get a pair of the slimmer ELAC debut on-wall speakers (DOW42). I have a 16x16' room and was considering using them combined with a small sub on the side. Do you think I'm better off with the larger Debuts as seen here?
@@dannyrichie9743 While I normally agree with this sentiment, the DOW42's are surprisingly good as surrounds and Atmos (ie. ceiling) - even right against the wall. I'd guess it's likely do to the lower workload and perhaps the down-firing ports. For fronts though? No way.
Danny, thank you for another awesome upgrade. I was into it, and hoping to improve performance of these Elac's I have relegated to garage duty. Then came the $345 cost for upgraded crossover components... these speakers only cost $199/pr. delivered (Amazon). Seems more value might be added with $105 miniDSP 2x4. Could get rid of all the crossovers (component noise, phase issues, delay, etc.), and dedicate an amp channel to each driver (also increasing amp efficiency). Anytime a crossover solution goes over $100 in this modern era of advanced DSP, it no longer makes sense to me from a value perspective. There is just so much more that can be done with DSP, for so much less coin, and provides the opportunity to tweak at will. Think the highs sound too bright or too layed-back - adjust it, think the tweeter can play lower - adjust the crossover point, think it needs a step filter - add one, etc., etc. Try whatever you want with DSP - listen to it live while making the changes. Then when you think you have something special, load it to a config slot, and A-B switch between them to test. Could even create multiple crossover configurations for different music genres and switch between them with a wireless remote control. Nicest part of DSP is when filters are changed, it doesn't mess with phase, timing, impedance, etc., and you can see the resulting freq. response graph before (and even while) changes are being made. The way of the future is all digital to DSP (crossover) inside the speaker enclosure, distributed to drivers that have individual bespoke DAC amps integrated as part of the motor structure designed/optimized specifically for each driver (from the driver manufacture). The only analog cables in the entire system will be the short leads to the driver cone (unless there's an analog TT in the system).
Been there done that and tried the best there is. The MiniDSp is the second worst (behind the behringer). It sucks the life out of the music and is un-listenable. The D/A converter, power supply and analog output stage is on par with a $49 CD player. You'll get better sound from a non-upgraded stock model and a good DAC.
@@dannyrichie9743 So the DSP solution is valid. Seems your saying miniDSP 2x4 has inferior power supply and DAC that are limiting the capabilities of this particular unit (or maybe all miniDSP-made products?). Notice you didn't take issue with DSP as a viable solution, but rather the hindrances of low-performance ancillary bits. Then it stands to reason that improved power supply and DAC would drive-up the cost higher than that of improved passive crossover components. What do you consider a 'good' DAC? Since DACs are more commonly used outside of DSP in the HiFi community (wherever digital sources are used), would it be possible to have a Tech Talk on them?
Good reply. I am not against a DSP solution, but it has to sound good. And often the cost of good sound into multiple channels can really add up. I consider the DEQX model a decent mid-fi level unit. It's okay, but far from the top level DAC's. Rich Hollis of Hollis Audio Labs facebook.com/HollisAudioLabs/ is the only one I have personally spent time with that I could put in the category of a high end piece of gear. As for good DAC's. I am always keeping an eye out for the really good ones that are not expensive. This company makes some good ones. www.denafrips.com/ I was very impressed with the sound of the Aries 2 model. And my digital guru's are singing the praises of the Holo DAC: kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-spring2-dac-kitsune-tuned-edition/ I haven't heard it yet myself, but guys that I really know and trust are really holding it up. Using good quality DAC's like those and good quality passive filters are still at the top of the performance ladder.
Whilst I agree with the general "DSP" reasoning, the technology is in a toddler development stage (to avoid the word phase). Several huge problems need to be solved before you can compete with the best musical high end audio. Electrical engineers really don't understand human hearing and base their work on simple mathematics where only sine waves are considered. Try running a 1,760 Hz blockwave through a component chain and look at the wave shape in your room. Total mess. In a cheap system, there are simple priorities that, IMO, you better address before surrendering to GAS and (expensive) modifications. 1. Phase aligned AC. In countries where AC plugs allow random Live-Neutral plug insertion, make sure all devices are polarity aligned. When they are not, voltage differences between devices cause current to flow over ground connections linked to the signal paths. 2. Clean AC. Each amplification stage tries to bring AC to the next in as short a path as possible. Like in a capital T, amplification is the horizontal straight through and previous stage is the vertical modulating the horizontal. Garbage in = Garbage out (the GIGO principle). Most power supplies are too simple to prevent bad AC from seeping through into the next audio stage. Even in high end. Listen to somewhat complex acoustic music with proper space recording and zero mastering or mixing. Hear the difference between business and household rush hours and after midnight. The latter better? Bad filtering in power supplies. Note that electricity companies around the world increasingly worry about pollution of their grids. 3. Speaker placement in your room. Watch e.g. Wilson Audio's YT clips about the subject. Your turn. 4. (Iterate 3 & 4) room acoustic treatment. Ask an assistant to help. One (M) has a mirror, the other (L) in the listening chair. M slides the mirror over surfaces in L's room, where L watches where a speaker becomes visible in the mirror. Walls, ceilings, objects. Each "hit" labeled with a sticky note. These are points of first reflection. Each of these contribute to mess you hear. Simple acoustic treatment (extinguishing the reflection) improves your listening experience by a lot. YT channel "DIY Perks" shows two DIY approaches - the oldest has the best WAF, based on cheap wood frames filled and covered with towels. 5. Have crossovers with no capacitors in the audio signal path. My Extrema speakers have passive radiator cooling on the main resistor taking most if the heating. Spatial clues are great. 6. Don't talk about phase when you want to take phase change out of a speaker that has its driver's aligned out of phase. [GAS: gear acquisition syndrome. WAF: wife acceptance factor. AC: alternating current] No comment on this channel. It makes sense.
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't like digital crap either, I even don't like CD, after listening to CDs of music unobtainable on vinyl for 2 days, fatigue takes it's toll and back to vinyl
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
I've always wanted to buy a hifi speaker from Jimmy Carter. ;)
I dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know a way to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot the login password. I love any tricks you can offer me.
@Devin Cedric instablaster ;)
@Garrett Fernando I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm in the hacking process atm.
Takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Garrett Fernando It worked and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my account :D
@Devin Cedric No problem :D
13:46 That grill was a flat earther.
RIP
So, I dunno if this has been addressed before, or not, but as much fun as DYI may be, wouldn't it be just as cost effective to buy the bigger Elac Debut Reference DBR62? Is there a comparison on the B2 upgrade vs the stock Reference series?
I think this is for people like me who already own this speaker. Why chase the dream buying better and better speakers when you could just upgrade what you have? The reference, while better than these, will still have cheap crossover components, and the urge to upgrade them will still be there for us tinkerers. I'm only willing to pay so much for speakers. I've pretty much hit my limit. Unless you offer me some Forte 4's for 1K, which I would still have to upgrade :)
i would LOVE to hear your thoughts on the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s. both from a measurement and build construction perspective.
You'll have to do one for the Debut 2 Reference now :)
Do you offer a kit for the 5.2? Your website only lists the 6.2 and the center channel.
You can't go on a rant about flat earthers who refuse to look at the "evidence" and then provide NO EVIDENSE WHATSOEVER in any of your videos to prove that premium quality parts make a measurable difference. You put a lot of effort into showing response charts before and after a redesign (different values/config to produce a better response and phase alignment), but I have never seen a distortion chart from you demonstrating that premium parts reduce distortion all other things being equal.
What evidence do you have that speaker cables do make a difference other than your own ears?
I have two pairs of these. The only complaint I have is the same as the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers, they are a little dull at the top. Look for my order.
Bought the kit - did the upgrade - I already liked these speakers - now I love them. If you are considering this upgrade I highly recommend it.
Can you tell us upgrade parts specification? Parameters? I’m from UK thinking to get German parts.. but with same parameters..
@@johnmcgregor2334 Dude...🙄
@@johnmcgregor2334 REALLY?
@@johnmcgregor2334 that is the kind of thing that chinese do, with chinese parts of course... shame.
Hi Daniel. I just did the upgrade and discovered a lot of interference with the crossover and the plastic air ports on one speaker which caused me to modify the layout for the second crossover assembly. Even with the tweeter coil laying flat on the 2nd speaker, I had to modify the plastic port. My recommendation is to separate the Tweeter and Woofer crossovers and mount them on the inner rear side walls. What say you? My first LP on the new ELAC's was Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It was like sitting in the midst of a live orchestra - - - - - WOW.
I have the elac uni-fi ub5 are they worth doing an upgrade?
It seems like a little cabinet tweaking and targeted XO component upgrading should get the 6.2 close to the reference 6.2. I'd love to order the GR 6.2 kit, but it would cost something like $800 in Canada, which is twice what the speakers cost me new.
Same here, im in CA as well.
Danny I found that by applying rope style window putty to the frames made a huge difference. These are amazing speakers for the price. Those saying different probably don’t want to believe the sound quality can be that good at their price point. I will be in touch about the Cover upgrades. 👍🏻
What to you mean by that?
Great up grade. I own the 5.2 t model towers. Do you have kit for those and is the much soldering or ? Let me know thanks Danny
That is a good improvement even though the fact Andrew Jones went thru a lot of work to design this model speaker at a demand budget price.....
$1800 Polk audio had one good part: a ring tweeter. ($30). The rest? crap. Andrew Jones could help polk out, but if polk made the Debut speakers, they'd cost 3x as much for the same thing.
@@scottlowell493 Nonsense.
I bought the elac debut 2.0 b6.2s and was disgusted. Shitty highs and nonexistent mid range.
I would love to hear a before and after test. just for fun.
Thanks a lot for your video. Can't stop thinking you have to do some upgrade to the DBR62 now, because it will be a best seller and a lot of people will be interested.
can you tell me if these upgrades are still available and will they work with the Debut 5.2?
Some globe-earthers just refuse to look at the facts proving flat earth, but they are still capable of making great sounding speakers. Go figure.
Couldn't hear the cable/connector difference when in my 20s, other than connection/oxidation distortions - most likely I won't be convinced now, with way better drivers. But I learned how to do proper crossovers over the years, that don't stress tweeters playing too low.
@@pliedtka A reason why he never does anything but test at 1 watt, never has to worry about his tweeter mods then.
He also never shows a phase plot that will look horrible with his added circuits.
@@darrylduck6356 1 watt is the standard test level for speakers
Please do an upgrade on KEF LS50 :)
KEF Q300 Please from Brazil!!!!!!!
Send him a speaker and he will do it
Danny... great job!!!! One question... Ron has heard the elacs with the upgrades ???
Wonder what Andrew Jones think.Also keeping cost down 345.00 more Andrew could have done it
Would Andrew Jones approve ?
How much is this upgrade?
Have you done a upgrade review for the Elac UB5 speakers? I'm looking to upgrade if possible
We had one in house. It did not have a very linear response and was loaded with the same garbage parts the rest of them were. The problem was there was no room in the box for a three way crossover using quality parts.
Cable naysayers simply ask for recordable evidence. A simple recording and graphing under controlled conditions would suffice. Otherwise, it's just all "trust me, bro" science. If you can hear a difference, then it can be recorded. After all, what is sound but pressure waves? There's nothing you can hear that a mic can't pick up.
I wonder how a real elac (with jet tweeters) would measure
At average age ,who cares about 16khz ...@55 years old cuts @13.5 khz !
i'm a flat earther and i believe in speaker cable upgrades. i'm mad at danny for having pre-conceived ideas about flat earthers though.
Hey Danny! If you could, would you be able to tell me how to take the speakers out of a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 11.2's? I have some issues with them that I would like to try to take a look at and any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. The problem is that there are no exposed screws on the bass or tweeter drivers. Thank you!
I heard these a few times and this high frequency drop was heard as dull , tamed top with no sparkle and airless what tilted the presentation to bass heavy .
I thought it maybe have been done on purpose by Andrew Jones for a better match to today's bass heavy , air/ harmonics less highs for today's so called R&B music?
For me being 47 i would much rather hear a boost of highest frequency to better match my hearing that drops down at 14K 😉
@Pho Tato oh yeah politics of designing whole line and purposely "staining" performance of bottom models so more expencive models can sound better proportionally to price tag increase. Sad but true.
This proceder makes you want to look at Danny's approach at GR where you get honest and not price politicized approach .
I had those Debut 2.0's and I thought the highs were too dull and boring sounding. And I don't even like bright speakers.
I thought the same thing until I boosted 16khz, now I love love love them. Even with eq the highs are not harsh, very easy to listen to, especially guitar strings.
How difficult is this upgrade for someone who has never soldered anything before?
Much thanks to Peter for proving to the world the actual shape of the Earth, I'll make sure I never leave home without my repelling gear for now on!
Rapalling. You repel mosquitos.
I have this speaker and have been very impressed with the sound. I have no mechanical abilities. Any recommendation as to finding someone in my area who could do this for me?
What about KEF ls 50. could you do an upgrade on them?
Send him a speaker and he will do it
Would be nice to hear a sound demo from before and after the upgrade.
You will never hear the change broadcasting it over yt.
Every time you are listening to somthing on YT you are listening to your own speakers you moron. Was that not fucking obvious?
@@elvirredzepovic6898 znaci ti tvrdis da na tvojim zvucnicima nije moguce cuti razliku u kvalitetu reprodukcije.
sasvim je jasno da ce yt kompresija da oduzme deo utiska ali itekako se cuje razlika ukoliko je mikrofon i oprema za snimanje dobra tadodje uredjaji za reprodukciju moraju biti dovoljno kvalitetni..recimo da imas dobar dac i dbnro pojacalo i slusalice ,sasvim ces jasno cuti razliku u karakteru zvuka ,ne mora nesto nuzno da bude bolje ili losije dovoljno je da ima karakter koji ti se svidja.zvuk je dosta subjetivna stvar.
@@stever128 He claims "a lot more clarity", so it must be possible to hear that on TH-cam.
@@stever128 acoustic meaures would do fine
Well, if you're so certain about speakes cables and interconnects making such a difffeence and want to prove the nay-sayers wrong, then why don't you provide some measurements to back up your claims?
Measurements that we are capable of taking don't tell us the whole story and don't really quantify what we hear. For instance one cable provides better image separation than another. How do you measure that?
Its all about " The Experiments" right? I know.
Elac Debut 2.0 52 or 62? Thanks advance
I have plenty of room, and I have heard amazing difference in the Elac Debut 2.0 Tower speakers just by changing the distance I keep from the back wall. Huge Difference. That, and removing the grill from the tweeter changes the audio experience, significantly.
Also have the f6.2 towers. Pulling the mesh off the tweeters helped the high end a lot. They also sound best a minimum 12" or so from back wall. Also try plugging the bottom port with foam. Really tightened up the lower bass.
(I'm using a sub crossed around 85hz)
Switching woofer coil from low R to linear but higher R coil is a bad idea in 2D speaker, you just loose about 1db of bass. I do not mention change of Qes and caused by this required change of box volume...
Oh yes i just come to impedance chart, you really blow up the woofer to box adjusting (see my comment about Qes), see the woofer resonance deep at original and your chart....
where do all the xo parts mount in that cabinet? lot of parts to get in there!
I found the center channel for $150, and the 6.2’s for $150 a pair on Amazon a couple years ago! Does this kit come with step by step directions? What to remove and what to solder to what? Is there a kit for the center channel as well? Thank you!
I have not worked on their center channel models.
I'm sorry but I don't see the reason or justification in spending 350.00 to "correct" a 200.00 pair of speakers. So you are looking at almost 600.00 for these not including your time/labor. For 600.00 you are in a whole different level of quality options for speakers that these would never get close to. For that I'll buy a better pair of speakers that I don't have to correct and still save money.
Correct. When you're at the $600 price point, check out the Elac Debut Reference model. I like the D6.2 model, but the Debut Reference has a better cabinet structure, slotted front port, better (vinyl) veneer and a more refined sound. I've applied some crossover mods to a previous pair of B6.2 Elacs I had by changing one of the caps and 2 of the resistors. To my ears, the sound was improved a bit and the cost was only about $12.00 for the parts, plus shipping.
Stepping up to the $600 retail price point won't buy you much more in terms of quality parts or performance. You'll see the same budget level parts holding them back, and needing the same upgrades.
Surely starting with a cabinet built from plans or an off the shelf cab with higher quality components would be a better starting place. Its something I'd like to try. Building a speaker, buying nice components and putting the time in rather than trying to polish up a built to price speaker. Does Danny have kits or plans for that sort of thing?
We have kits that we feel offers the best performance and value at each price point up to cost no object speakers. You can view them on our website and see lots of builds in our forum at the Audio Circle.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks i just saw the final klipsch video and the credit to your kit speaker. I'll look over what you offer. I am in the uk so there maybe a few more considerations.
These speakers are £250 this seems like a massive false economy.
This is how it's always been and it's the same in any other industry. The sum that you pay for is far greater than the cost of the parts themselves. That pair of $250 speakers is worth $50 in parts. That $1000 phone is worth $300-$500 in parts. The same will be true for basically anything else manufactured and sold in this capitalist world.
@@infn your margins look a bit thin 😉
@@infn He is correct.
On Black Friday of 2018, all the retailers were selling the ELAC B6.2 for $75.00 each. I bought 4 but I wish I had bought 8. Audio Advisor was sold out and I had to backorder through Crutchfield. They must have sold thousands.
flat earthers, hilarious!!
Hi. Hos are these compared with your XLS Encore’s? Demo?
The X-LS Encore is well above them across the board.
I'm interested in this upgrade but not really sure if it will help with my main issue with this speaker which is the treble sounds a bit subdued and lacks sparkle, that and how import taxes and postage to the uk adds up.
This upgrade solves that issue. And I can send these kits to the UK cheaper than you think.
Are you spending that kind of money to upgrade just might as well buy good speakers. Why go through all the hassle
Most of the so called "good speakers" for even four or five times this price are still loaded with the same budget level parts.
Evidence shows that cables dont make a difference tho?? So whos the real flat earthers
Actually the audible difference is quite well known.
Hi Danny,
What would be the difference in sound quality between these modified Elac debut 2.0 vs Your XL-S Encore kit?
Or would it be better to compare the modified Elac 2.0 to the sound quality of the NX-Studio?
As of right now I own the JBL Studio 230. I think they are pretty good speakers. I'm just wanting to upgrade to something on another level that won't break the bank to much.
My wife and I do 50/50 with listening to music and movies.
Our listening room size is 14x12.
JBL Studio 230's
JBL Studio 235 center
2x Rogers Speedwoofer subwoofers
To me the JBL STUDIO 230's are just a little muffled in the mid range. It's probably the cheap materials in the crossovers they used. Maybe a JBL Studio 230 upgrade kit would take them to another level. Still not a bad set of bookies for the price.
Thank you...
The X-LS Encore still uses higher quality drivers and even with the same internal parts it is still at a different level.
The NX Studio monitors are in a different league. That is a cost no object conversation for a stand mounted speaker.
@@dannyrichie9743 Hi Danny,
For someone that listens to music and movies with the same system would the NX Studio work for both? I would imagine so. I doubt you'll make a center channel for the NX Studio line. Maybe the imaging on the NX studios are so good you won't need a center channel.
Maybe Paul from the Audio Circle forum will start making a flat pack for the NX Studio boxes.
I'll be ordering this kit. I can't get over how big speakers look on your table vs how small they look on my speaker stands.
Edit: I have upgraded the left speaker so far. it sounds so good, the pair sounds bad when played together. The balance has to be moved 3/10 to the right to even hear the speaker with the old crossover. And when I hear it, I want to turn it off, it sounds more tinny and shouty. The new crossover is punchy and clean (maybe as much to do with the No-Rez as the crossover). I'm just glad I have an amp that likes 4 ohm speakers. These Elacs WERE rated at 6 ohm and this kit brings them down to LESS than 4 ohm. The parts themselves were a bit of a challenge to get together in a space small enough to fit in the cabinet while keeping the inductors far enough apart. I managed, but I would like to see other people's solutions to this problem. I also found that both grills resonate at 72 Hz.. maybe not at listening levels, but while testing I was concerned I had done something wrong, until I removed the grills and discovered they were doing the buzzing.
don`t know how the box looks inside.. but typically cheap speakers can be improved with cabinet bracing as well as what you did
LOVE YOU'RE WORK DANNY THANKS FOR ALL THE TECH . UPGRADES ! KEEP KICK'N IT !
Everything I read out there about this kit (and in the comments here) seems to suggest a price around that of the speakers themselves for this upgrade kit. But when I go to the website, it's listing $579 + around $25 shipping. Am I looking in the correct place?
I really wanted to try this out, but if the kit is really approaching 3x the cost of the speakers themselves (picked em up on sale) I'm not sure if perhaps my money is better spent upgrading my amp to an Emotiva or something for half the price? Or maybe picking up an SVS sub to pair with them.
I'm not complaining, the price is the price. I just want to verify I'm looking at the same thing this video is talking about and seeing what everyone thinks about where to put my $600 in my audio system. Many of you here that experienced the kit said it was worth it. Still think it would be worth it at today's price?
I love Danny and his videos BTW, I've learned so much from him! Would love to get some of his products one day when I can afford it.
Well, Danny, I’m a “flat earther” by your definition. I’m not taking an absolutist policy on this because everyone is different. I’m also not going to be told that I don’t want to hear evidence. You should stop saying things like that. I’m always open to evidence. Where we differ is how much can be measured vs how much can be perceived. If I can’t actually hear a difference then the measurements go for zip. Do I think $259 (about $400 Aussie) is worthwhile? It’s not a massive sum and maybe it’s worth a shot. But I will be convinced by my ears (I notice you don’t do before and after sound test demonstrations) and not by a couple of pieces of paper.
We actually do listen to a lot of speakers in stock form before we upgrade them. We also spend a LOT of time A/B comparing each part used. In this case the upgrade is fairly significant. Hearing is believing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Well, if I can hear a benefit, I will agree with you.
Excelent, thanks a lot. Can you do a little upgrade on the unifi ub5 that is the one i have? Greetings from Argentina!!!
Hi Marcial. I had sent Danny one of my UB5 speakers in October to do testing on. Unfortunately it was damaged in shipping by UPS and they requested the speaker back to inspect to determine if they would pay the damage claim. So, I'm not sure if Danny had completed all the testing before UPS picked up the damaged speaker. What information he did share with me indicated that they had some issues which would be hard to fix due to space constraints inside the enclosure.
Hey Danny! I bought a pair of the Elac Debut B6 speakers for $200 right before the 2.0 came out. I love the sound and I'm really enjoying running them in. I'm happy with them now but at some point I'll be ready to upgrade. Should I go buy the 2.0 for almost $300 or should I buy your crossover kit for $ 300 plus? I'm leaning toward the latter because I would love the satisfaction of a successful DIY and am impressed with your video[s]. Am I making a false assumption that your 2.0 upgrade would be the same or similar in parts and cost? Would I have to ship my speakers for you to test? I'm not in a hurry because I have many more hours of "burn-in" ahead. Thanks for all the great info!!
If you are already into DIY then you might want to just by-pass the budget offerings and try one of our kits.
Did you buy the kit? How does it sound now?
I'm not sure how Danny does his measurements. This speaker does not sound natural. It is like the higher mids and treble are lifted ALOT.
The sales, piano's and voices all have a "metallic" sound to it. Clearly something is really wrong with them. Becomes very harsh after a while.
Danny can measure all the world, but if his ears are not able to pick up these utterly nasty treble symptoms...I dunno.
Bought these speakers because of this review, but after a week playing with cables and equipment I returned them.
Without our upgrade I couldn't listen to them at all.
I've owned the 6.2's for three years and I couldn't disagree more . One of the more balanced and least harsh speakers I've heard in their price range imo - else I would have upgraded from them long ago . GR-Research's upgrades probably do improve the sound to another level - but they were already fine sounding speakers to begin with . ( the Elac's are one of the best sellers in their price category and I guessing that it's probably not because they sound horrible like you guys seem to be putting on about ) . Now someday hopefully I'll own a pair of JBL 100s or one of my other dream speakers but in the meantime these Elacs do a mighty fine job for what I paid for them . I really can't praise them enough .
Great video, as usual, Danny. I was pretty underwhelmed with my Elac Debut 2.0s initially. Love the idea of upgrading them but I think I'll just put that money towards an X-LS Encore kit.
I can't afford 300$ in parts sadly, thanks for doing the work you do though. Quick question, would there be any point of purchasing just the notch filter from you (if even possible) over just using EQ and a top shelve to lower that 1.5db bump at 750khz
Update as of 2020. I bought these and thought they were OK. A little dull sounding. So I bought a new premamp (Emotiva) and use it with and old QSC power amp (class C) Still not good . so I bought a new power amp(Emotiva)
Still not good . So I bought a new DAC (Schiit) Still not happy. So I bought a new CD player. Not good enough.
Then I did something crazy, I pulled out and old pair of Wharfedale Diamond V from many years ago. I haven't used these speakers in 15 years. To my surprise they sounded much better than the Elacs . I may have to get the upgrade.
Would be great if you could do the ELAC unifi bookshelves, too. Thanks.
Send one over.
Yea. I'll have those over soon just trying to get the scratch together on them
audioscience forum is buzzing now... low only difference in speaker sound is Klippel measurements! I give this video a 4.3 rating and the 4.4 speaker sounds better
As a recent subscriber to your channel, I've been checking out many of your videos and like your approach to speaker design and modifications. As a subscriber to Speaker Builder magazine in the 1980s and 1990s, I got enough of the basic theory down to comprehend why your concern with quality parts is not some kind of snake oil. So I'm surprised with your comments on the cube earth. Why aren't you a proponent of the electric universe theory, where, if I understand it correctly, all forces in the universe are electromagnetic? Gravity and the ball earth are old hat . Proponents of string theory suggest that earth may actually be shaped like a spaghetti noodle. Who knows, anything might be better than believing in a model of the that requires an ivory soap percentage of it to be dark matter and dark energy! Or are you really a planetary physicist in disguise?
I don't know about speakers cables, but for signal cables I have today proof in the ears that my own made (best I could) xlr interconnects were inferior to the Benchmark media ones I just got. I am still processing, because it's huge. so Huge I thought I had bumped the setting of the sub, had to double check, and the overall volume went down so I had to check the db meter, and it was the same, in fact what happens is there is less garbage, so even at high volume there is less discomfort on the ears. Every sound is SHORTER in duration, meaning you can hear more of the before and after small sounds that are before and after a hit. When pushing volume the different furniture, plates, glasses, windows vibrations are much shorter lived and more varied. Again I don't understand yet, still processing ... I was not ready for such night and day difference. It's like a knife so sharp I cut myself. The quality of the contacts is also very high on the list of things that mus go well for signal to be good. The problem with this upgrade is if you just do it by ears, then you'll push the volume up to unreasonable spl. (and the speakers look to work way less, while spine and stomach get hit hard but short) All the titles i know and listen often for years now show me new layers, new things, or show the same things more obviously. It's like removing yet another grill. An an astonishing fact is that I don't need to recalibrate room eq, pink noise is even flatter than before. It is even flatter in all seats of the room, not just in my spot. So if signal cable do something, then speaker cables and internal speaker cables and connectors do, it's obvious.
Please let me know if mod kit is available for Elac 2.0/B6.2-does i t have to be assembled or is it fully assembled? thx Dr. LR
Not having heard these and just going by your charts it looks like the dip at 1khz is about as significant as the 750hz bump you were focusing on.
I just don’t get it. Shipping is going to kill any discount but I would love build a speaker. Large bookself
No, the slight dip there at 1kHz is nothing. The peak at 750 is a resonance issue.
Thanks for the video. I am thinking about doing this upgrade. Your measurements stop at 200 hz. What is the reason for this? How do these Elacs perform in the low end?
Hi ,Dany. Great work,keep on. want to ask you off you had make some linda of upgrade on a Dali rubicon 2 and its its worthing ? Thanks
Danny, have you looked at the uni-fi 2.0 Ub52 crossover change?
It makes more sense just to buy a high dollar speaker and have you fix it. Charge more than the speakers cost just makes more sense to buy better speakers.
Sounds good, but think one should buy them (and hear them) before upgrading, right.
I'm not gonna invest in the upgraded before crashing my hears against the real thing.
Thx to that guy down there who bought the kit & loved it. Think he had a pair before buying the kit.
cables make a difference , but at the same time some cable companies sell snake oil, often a cable if its the right cable at $40 can be as good as some $150 cables not always does more money mean its better or worth the diff.
Copper is still being copper regardless where it is. Yes, sure there might be some dodgy copper wires from China, but the rest of proper electrical copper cables are the same for the purpose of carrying low freq. signals if the cables have appropriate section of cource. One day we received a lot of backlash from Monster Cable distributor for us bashing their overhyped products by telling the truth about that to many our customers all over the town. Personally I've got nothing against their pricing, but with all the lies and all the other esoteric BS they say about their cables, the companies such as Monster Cables, Van Den Hul etc. they all fall under a definition of charlatans.
@@MSM5500 Build a pair of Canare L-2T2S interconnects and float the shield. Total cost will run about $12, including Nakamichi RCAs. After I had them in my system, I dumped all of my snake-oil crap.
All of my interconnect cables are Canare, along with Canare 4S8 speaker cables. High-end audio on a budget, without the BS.
Hi, any suggestions on upgrading the elac fs249 first gen :-)?
I have two pair of these speakers and two
Center speakers. Have you made up a crossover for the center speaker that’s for these ?
Thank you for amazing review, I have older version elac debut b6 and for me as new in audiophile world they sound amazing with my old marantz 2230 receiver :)
Can I apply this upgrades and modification same as here?
best regards
Is that $345 total cost for both speakers or is that per speaker?
That is for the pair.
Any chance one of you nice folks has either a picture or drawing of how you laid out these upgrade parts? I am having a bit of a struggle keeping the dimensions on a single piece of MDF down to something that will fit in the enclosure. Not sure if I should trim off some of the leads coming off the inductors or what?
Can you fix the throat cancellation by just chamfering the inner edge of the tweeter face plate?
I never knew about tube connectors, but one of the upgrades I used to do was just running speaker wire straight into the cabinet through a hole that I drilled and then filling the hole with silicon so that it’s airtight. You end up with a speaker that has a permanent wire, running out of the back, but hey, it works.
Which one you preffer, this Elac's or the Dali Skeptor 2 ???
Hi Danny
Can you list parts of crossovers that we need to upgrade Elac B6 upgrade Level-1
What resistors do I need? Models and full specifications
So you want me to do all the design work and make the improvements then give it to you for free so that you can buy the parts somewhere else?
I pretty much outline the whole thing right here and list a total for all of the parts: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138550.0
@@dannyrichie9743 Is there a chance I could hear somewhere online the difference between stock (I own a pair) Elac 6.2 and modified using your upgrade kit ? It would be encouraging to make a buying decision... :)
@@KonradSkowronski Hear the difference online? Playing back some sound clips from a compressed TH-cam file is not going to allow you to hear how significant the difference is.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh, it doesn't have to be compressed by YT sound file but for example 2 wave files to download from your site. Anyway, properly miked room/speakers can be kind of informative even via YT. If the upgrade is that good it should be audible even through not perfect online comparison IMHO.
Wait it's not a square world ?
Lol
I know someone who is a great guy no doubt.
His favorite saying is..."all i know is"""
Well that settles everything.
When upgrading the crossover, the parts are significantly larger. How does this effect the internal volume of the enclosure? Seems the smaller the speaker the more critical volume loss would would be. With the kit, would there be a suggested layout/placement of parts?
I'd mount them in the bottom of the cabinet. They take up very little air space. Adding a little more insulation about the size of your fist will make up for it.
Affect*
The flat earth guys sure have more money from me to tell non truths, cables make huge difference, clear electricity is a must,
What if the box resonance is intentionally tuned by the designer to aid the speaker's voicing and a DIYer modifies to remove the resonance? Why attack box resonance as an automatic point of modification?
Exactly. When you modify speaker/cabinets/crossovers they cease being what the manufacturer - designer (A.Jones) intended them to sound like. Might as well buy different speakers if you want a different sound.
Box resonances are never part of the design element. That would be like designing an amp to have a little hum, or building a new engine so that it has a little knock.
Speakers are designed to accurately reproduce the input signal. Box resonances are never part of the input signal.
@@dannyrichie9743 I was asking based on forum discussions I've seen mentioning Harbeth and "BBC styled thin walled cabinets". This is from one of those discussions, but, I see it does not refute what you are saying. Thanks for responding!
"The BBC wasn't trying to add to the speaker's sound. Their position was that a completely rigid cabinet would still reach resonance and ring at some audible level/frequency while a lossy cabinet would push "unwanted resonances downwards in amplitude and frequency so that they are adequately buried below the music and then pushed down in pitch"
The quotation is from Alan Shaw of Harbeth.
"It seems to me that the BBC / Harbeth objective is the same as the "rigid cabinet" school. They just (seem) to believe that the lossy construction is a better approach to the goal."
@@4991544 If a cabinet wall is flexing then it is adding or taking away from the input signal as it is not part of the input signal. And pushing it down to a lower wavelength involves an increase in the amount of flex and movement. And if you really hit the resonance frequency of the panel then it really comes alive. And is also harder to damp out a lower frequency resonance. If the resonance is higher then the magnitude is less and it is easy to damp out with No Rez. Then you have no coloration at all.
@@dannyrichie9743 I find your logic convincing. I also prefer it, as the idea of working with distortion as if it were one of the 'ingredients' in the recipe, rather than seeking to eliminate it outright, does seem absurd. Thanks for disabusing me of this one!
I'd take a look at Amir's video from Audio Science Review before running out and spending money on "audiophile" cables. He does a great job with objective measurements and clear evaluations.
I agree, but he won't listen. prob becaue he has invested interests in speakers cables.
I wouldn't trust much of what he has to say. He has only a little knowledge and then he theorizes a misleading conclusion.
Excellent work!
Does holding to the belief that cables don't matter = not wanting to spend the extra money for better quality gear?
does this upgrade work for the 6.2 or the 6.2 need a new set of caps/ X over job ?
Any plans for Uni-fi review/kit upgrade?
The speaker and the upgrades are awesome....and...the earth is flat!
$345 for each speaker or for a pair?
That is everything you need for the pair.
@@dannyrichie9743 does the kit come with install instructions ? I want to do this upgrade but a bit apprehensive as I have never before performed a DIY cross over. This will be my first.
@@michaelross8036 It is not as hard as it looks and you'll have a lot of support.
Thanks! Would you do this for the original uni fi 5.1
I believe you, just can't hear it.
But I still believe the world is round.
Hi there, Danny ! Nice vids you make.👍 Just wondering if you could make a vid about Monitor Audio Bronze 5 (5G) ?
Only if someone sends one in.
This was interesting... thanks for the rundown. I might get a pair of the slimmer ELAC debut on-wall speakers (DOW42). I have a 16x16' room and was considering using them combined with a small sub on the side. Do you think I'm better off with the larger Debuts as seen here?
Performance wise you are always better getting the speakers away from and off of the walls.
@@dannyrichie9743 While I normally agree with this sentiment, the DOW42's are surprisingly good as surrounds and Atmos (ie. ceiling) - even right against the wall. I'd guess it's likely do to the lower workload and perhaps the down-firing ports. For fronts though? No way.
Danny, thank you for another awesome upgrade. I was into it, and hoping to improve performance of these Elac's I have relegated to garage duty. Then came the $345 cost for upgraded crossover components... these speakers only cost $199/pr. delivered (Amazon). Seems more value might be added with $105 miniDSP 2x4. Could get rid of all the crossovers (component noise, phase issues, delay, etc.), and dedicate an amp channel to each driver (also increasing amp efficiency). Anytime a crossover solution goes over $100 in this modern era of advanced DSP, it no longer makes sense to me from a value perspective. There is just so much more that can be done with DSP, for so much less coin, and provides the opportunity to tweak at will. Think the highs sound too bright or too layed-back - adjust it, think the tweeter can play lower - adjust the crossover point, think it needs a step filter - add one, etc., etc. Try whatever you want with DSP - listen to it live while making the changes. Then when you think you have something special, load it to a config slot, and A-B switch between them to test. Could even create multiple crossover configurations for different music genres and switch between them with a wireless remote control. Nicest part of DSP is when filters are changed, it doesn't mess with phase, timing, impedance, etc., and you can see the resulting freq. response graph before (and even while) changes are being made. The way of the future is all digital to DSP (crossover) inside the speaker enclosure, distributed to drivers that have individual bespoke DAC amps integrated as part of the motor structure designed/optimized specifically for each driver (from the driver manufacture). The only analog cables in the entire system will be the short leads to the driver cone (unless there's an analog TT in the system).
Been there done that and tried the best there is. The MiniDSp is the second worst (behind the behringer). It sucks the life out of the music and is un-listenable. The D/A converter, power supply and analog output stage is on par with a $49 CD player. You'll get better sound from a non-upgraded stock model and a good DAC.
@@dannyrichie9743 So the DSP solution is valid. Seems your saying miniDSP 2x4 has inferior power supply and DAC that are limiting the capabilities of this particular unit (or maybe all miniDSP-made products?). Notice you didn't take issue with DSP as a viable solution, but rather the hindrances of low-performance ancillary bits. Then it stands to reason that improved power supply and DAC would drive-up the cost higher than that of improved passive crossover components. What do you consider a 'good' DAC? Since DACs are more commonly used outside of DSP in the HiFi community (wherever digital sources are used), would it be possible to have a Tech Talk on them?
Good reply.
I am not against a DSP solution, but it has to sound good. And often the cost of good sound into multiple channels can really add up.
I consider the DEQX model a decent mid-fi level unit. It's okay, but far from the top level DAC's.
Rich Hollis of Hollis Audio Labs facebook.com/HollisAudioLabs/ is the only one I have personally spent time with that I could put in the category of a high end piece of gear.
As for good DAC's. I am always keeping an eye out for the really good ones that are not expensive.
This company makes some good ones. www.denafrips.com/ I was very impressed with the sound of the Aries 2 model.
And my digital guru's are singing the praises of the Holo DAC: kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-spring2-dac-kitsune-tuned-edition/
I haven't heard it yet myself, but guys that I really know and trust are really holding it up.
Using good quality DAC's like those and good quality passive filters are still at the top of the performance ladder.
Whilst I agree with the general "DSP" reasoning, the technology is in a toddler development stage (to avoid the word phase). Several huge problems need to be solved before you can compete with the best musical high end audio. Electrical engineers really don't understand human hearing and base their work on simple mathematics where only sine waves are considered. Try running a 1,760 Hz blockwave through a component chain and look at the wave shape in your room. Total mess.
In a cheap system, there are simple priorities that, IMO, you better address before surrendering to GAS and (expensive) modifications.
1. Phase aligned AC. In countries where AC plugs allow random Live-Neutral plug insertion, make sure all devices are polarity aligned. When they are not, voltage differences between devices cause current to flow over ground connections linked to the signal paths. 2. Clean AC. Each amplification stage tries to bring AC to the next in as short a path as possible. Like in a capital T, amplification is the horizontal straight through and previous stage is the vertical modulating the horizontal. Garbage in = Garbage out (the GIGO principle). Most power supplies are too simple to prevent bad AC from seeping through into the next audio stage. Even in high end. Listen to somewhat complex acoustic music with proper space recording and zero mastering or mixing. Hear the difference between business and household rush hours and after midnight. The latter better? Bad filtering in power supplies. Note that electricity companies around the world increasingly worry about pollution of their grids. 3. Speaker placement in your room. Watch e.g. Wilson Audio's YT clips about the subject. Your turn. 4. (Iterate 3 & 4) room acoustic treatment. Ask an assistant to help. One (M) has a mirror, the other (L) in the listening chair. M slides the mirror over surfaces in L's room, where L watches where a speaker becomes visible in the mirror. Walls, ceilings, objects. Each "hit" labeled with a sticky note. These are points of first reflection. Each of these contribute to mess you hear. Simple acoustic treatment (extinguishing the reflection) improves your listening experience by a lot. YT channel "DIY Perks" shows two DIY approaches - the oldest has the best WAF, based on cheap wood frames filled and covered with towels. 5. Have crossovers with no capacitors in the audio signal path. My Extrema speakers have passive radiator cooling on the main resistor taking most if the heating. Spatial clues are great. 6. Don't talk about phase when you want to take phase change out of a speaker that has its driver's aligned out of phase.
[GAS: gear acquisition syndrome. WAF: wife acceptance factor. AC: alternating current]
No comment on this channel. It makes sense.
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't like digital crap either, I even don't like CD, after listening to CDs of music unobtainable on vinyl for 2 days, fatigue takes it's toll and back to vinyl
Mmmmm interesting how much is this kit posted to the east mids in england uk?