Regardless of any errors in game timeline or game play, this was D&D done right. Everyone was invested in the game and had a great time. The DM was happy when the good guys won. The players encouraged each other. This is the heart and soul of table top rpgs.
@@concernedcommenter8258 no. DnD is an incredibly rules heavy game, there are multiple hundred page books with lots of rules and that no one can agree on. Especially when compared to rules-lite systems, DnD is complicated as all hell.
@@weepingwalnut @JJ Afton is right. Early editions of D&D, that is, pre AD&D, were simpler and required only a soft-cover book or two. (Generally, what is called BX or the "D&D Basic Set/Moldvay D&D: the Basic edition edited by Tom Moldvay, followed by the Expert set.) Newer versions of this early form (Old School Essentials, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Castles & Crusades) are similar in that way. I agree: D&D 3e and after are complicated as all hell! Even AD&D 1st edition, which is implied as the version played in the scene, was not as complicated as has become.
When Erica rolled the nat 20 and Eddie said "that's why we play." made me so happy. The worst trope is the player vs dm and there not even a hint of it in the scene.
Exactly. And precisely how I run my game. I don't actively try and kill my players -- never understood the appeal of DM's like that. Now if they go and do something incredibly stupid to put themselves in (more of) harms way, well, then... let the dice do as the will. I love it when I present a challenge/situation (thinking I've thought of every conceivable angle of dealing with it) and the PC's come up with something completely out of left field.
@@asraiSOA yes, when you as a DM plan for everything and the group take a left turn you never even considerd just make the game more fun. If you at the end of a session have a excited played group it is just the best DM feeling.
@@asraiSOA You can actively try to kill your players AND be a good DM! You're playing the bad guys! The bad guys WANT to kill the PCs! Don't be afraid to take the kiddie gloves off and let the dice fall where they may!
I’ve a long history with DnD. Harkening back to the OG rules, then onto AD&D and 2e. Life pretty much got in the way of 3-4.5e. We had a friend (we’ll call G) a few years back who wanted to start running a 5e game. WTH, it had been a while, the halflings/kids were vying to try it and my wife never played. First session G invites our entire friend group to play. I sh!t you not, there was her family, mine, and friends… there were like 16 PC’s. I was like, ‘Um, you’re going to run a game with THIS many players?’ Not to have G’s pride be called into question, G proclaimed ‘of course.’ I said ‘It’s just that any number over 5 can get pretty ‘cumbersome.’ G: ‘Oh it’ll be fine.’ Did I mention G is a control freak in general? Anyway, G then decides to task me, my brother-in-law, and G’s other half (all previous OG players) with HELPING all of the other ‘NEWBS’ - because OBVIOUSLY we didn’t have anything else to do… aside from running our own PC’s and getting familiar with the 5e rules and such. Needless-to-say, the number of PC’s diminished rapidly with each successive session as people would sit around for hours just waiting for their turn to do something… and then of course combat was a clusterf*ck with that many players. We ended up finishing the beginning of G’s campaign with 9 of us still ‘playing’ - still a handful of a mess, but we got it done. However, it left me and my family with a pretty bad taste. It was disheartening to watch each of my kids NOT having fun. Flash forward a year of two and having chatted with my family several times about how disappointing it was that their first endeavor into the game was such a let down - they start bugging me to run session or two with them. They finally talked me into it and my wife then asked if I would consider another friend of ours and his son (E and En) joining as well - they wanted a father/son ‘bonding’ event. Sure, why not. I can do a few ‘one-shots’ and that’ll be that. Well, a little over a year being the ‘forever’ DM and linking several random ‘one-shots’ into a now modified Lost Mine of Phandalin campaign… here we are. So, why bore you with this story you didn’t ask for? To the point of your previous posts… When our friend, E, and his son En, first came over for our session zero and several subsequent games, En (15 at the time) was a HUGE DnD ‘nerd’ who knew ALL about the game - but never played - was quiet, reserved, barely spoke to any one else - before, during, or after the game. He would get in the role play a bit though. He slowly started becoming more sociable and began making food, snacks, and treats to bring to the games - and it was damn good eats too, I say! So, a few weeks ago the party end up facing the Green Dragon from LMoP. The PC’s all decided to attempt to ‘negotiate’ with it… all but one. En’s PC in pure RPG fashion, bucks the narrative and starts pleading his case as to why they need to KILL the dragon. Everyone is attempting to reason with him, but he’s not having ANY of it. I sat back and listened to this ‘debate’ that went on for at least 20 min - all the while trying not to LMAO - and watched this ‘kid’ burst out of his shell and hold his own against 2 adult players and 3 young adults… and WIN the debate! He’s not been the same kid since… “That’s why we play!”
In 1983, all the guys in my D&D group were college athletes with girlfriends. I never thought D&D was a game for nerds but that it was a game for anybody who wanted to utilize their imagination.
My experience in jr high around the same time was just like the show, although many people played basketball (including me) it was dominated by a fringe group of people (Skaters and heavy metal pot heads). The “hellfire club” really fit my memory from the 80’s.
I loved the Eddie DM scene. While it didn't truly represent any session that I've been a part of, it did remind me of the best moments over years of playing. I was fortunate to have connected with a really good DM.
I grew up in a little town. The outcasts, metalheads, nerds, etc were the DnD players. My mom made me keep my books in my car because she didn't want "Satan" in her house. We played in garages, basements, and later at others houses.
My favorite was when he said, "VECNA LIVES!!!" It was like an homage to the adventure by the same name ^~^ I think that was dropped as a line on purpose.
To be fair its a 5 mins scene , kinda hard to really show everything aspect of what D&D is about in this short time . personally find this super cool they included AD&D in the show . :)
In all fairness, they only showed the highlight reel of the basketball game too... It may leave people with the impression that all high school basketball players are good and wins always come down to a dramatic last second shot at the buzzer.... They didn't show the players who were benched or the times when the basketball game was at a stalemate :P The huddle was to suggest D&D was just as much a sport to them as the basketball game was to them. It only showed the exciting moments of both to make a visual simile. It's the filmmaker's way of saying the D&D game was just as important as another person's basketball game. It was just how people viewed them differently. Neither one is the end-all-be-all of what matters... They are both the same thing to the respective people involved. That's why the D&D group in the show also had their own jerseys to wear when they played. That was on purpose too. That's the filmmaker being poetic. He rolled a 20 in the basketball game in the same way as his little sister made the final shot at the buzzer in the D&D game. ☺
I don't like this post, I don't know why I just don't like it. I think you missed the point of what this video was about in all fairness. Channel is about D&D man not basketball lol.
@@WillWildsOutdoorAdventures That wasn't my point; I was saying that scene was flipping back and forth between the two events to make a simile of how important D&D was to their group.
I am 58 years old and played D&D since 1977 (I skipped 4e). The reality of growing up in the late 70s-80s and playing D&D was nothing like Stranger Things. Being a nerd or geek was not socially acceptable back then and my group would NEVER go tell anyone outside our group that we played. We were already outside the cool kids club, so we didn’t feel the need to tell anyone for fear of being more of a social outcast. It is great today, that geek culture is populate and acceptable!
The characters of stranger things are social outcasts and actually got followed and nearly killed because some christians believed their D&D club was a satanist cult. So yeah in the context of the show it was a very bad idea to make the club public.
I started playing in 83 and it wasn't considered a cool thing to do. Some kids were bullied for being a gamer and called geeks. I never was never bullied for playing D&D but I also played sport during school.
The Eye and Hand of Vecna were also mentioned in the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide published in 1979. You'll find them on page 157 along with the Sword of Kas on page 161.
The best part of the game is that even if the dm is making it hard to the point the players call it befro the game jokingly sadistic but you see eddy celanrate the the victory we the players he is happy that they overcame the deadly challange he said
Eddie is a clone of myself from that era. Ha. About the huddle. Yes, in the early years of the game, players were seen doing this. The DMs were more in a role of trying to kill your group. They were designing hard dungeons. While happy when you succeeded, they were still designing a series of corridors that were meant for the players to really think about, right down to the marking stones. Today's game is much more story-based than survival. During the time, we had to get through the Satanic Panic to play. I think Stranger Things was pretty accurate on the difficulty of getting players. Some people thought it was for geeks or anti-socials, others believed it was for the demon-worshiping sort. Most people stayed away from it. Many just didn't "get it." No sports player was playing it unless they were really able to hide it. Still, most did not want to. The grownups did look down on it. It was on the news, preached against in community services in a negative light. So coaches would mirror the distaste to their kids, regularly.
I started playing in 1987. I was introduced to it from a fellow Marine, so it was all fellow Marines that made up my first D&D group. I know there was a D&D club in high school, but that was for the "smart" kids. Stranger Things is a great show and I think they did well in portraying D&D. Nice video
When I first started playing it was on an Air Force base, in late '79 or early '80. We had almost all ranks playing in our group and even some civilian contractors. At times we had so many people that we had to start a second dungeon.
I was there in 1986 playing 1e AD&D. Although stylized for media consumption, everything did seem period appropriate. We still had some of the old plastic dice floating around, but there were better dice sets by then. Also, there were great miniatures by that time as well. We never huddled like a sports team, but we did pass notes and go into other rooms away from the DM to discuss plans.
What was said about the dice might be correct for early 80s AD&D, but by the time the 4th season represents there were already vast quality improvements for game dice and figures. The game had its own magazine that sold items.
Im a new d&d player (about a year) and I've been watching a lot of your videos on character sheets to combat systems and overall how to play. It was pretty cool seeing Stranger Things adding this epic scene and it makes me want to play more. I just want to personally thank you for teaching all us newbies how to play❤️👍
Honestly, the first season scene of them playing in the basement seemed more historically accurate to me, but Eddie hovering over the DM wall with the image of the 1e AD&D DM Screen moved the nostalgia needle for me.
From what I understand, the scene where Erica tells Eddie what character she is playing is also very era-appropriate. Checking out Matt Colville's videos, according to him during the times of 1st and 2nd edition it was not uncommon for players to join the tables with already developed characters with items that were given to them by other DM's. It was widely accepted practice that if you got something from your DM and then you got invited with your character to someone elses game, you'd bring everything over no questions asked.
That is correct. Early on in AD&D a person was far less likely to create new characters all the time. They had one core character they made and it was used for any games they happen to join. If the character was too high of a level for a game then it was DM decision to allow the level anyway, handicap the character, or hand over for the new player to use an already made completely new character. Sometimes a person was invited to join because someone else quit and the level of a person's character might determine who was asked. A common question was, "what level are you at," as in the character you were expected to have used in other games.
Holy crap I forgot about this channel for 6 years and I'm so sorry. You were the first resource I ever watched when I was trying to get into DnD and got designated forever DM by getting my friends into it! Your "how to play dnd" videos were my very first resource back during stranger things season 1 and I'm so grateful for your content! Notification bell on from now on!
When my mom saw this season, she told me about how "Eddie plays so well that everyone else needs to fight together to beat his character!" Plus, that back-and-forth about Sinclair's level made it seem like characters' abilities are related to their players' skills (like LoL or CoD).
I played D&D during the 80’s starting in 83.The types of people shown playing g it in Stranger things is correct,they’re not just using stereotypes,back then it wasn’t popular or cool to play ,you definitely wouldn’t have the popular kids and jock types playing in,not here in the U.K. anyway,the scene is as completely different back then to what it’s like now and the change is for the better.Luckily here in the U.K. we didn’t have the satanic panic thing,it just seemed ridiculous from over here.
Regarding the miniatures. I agree they are period-accurate, but most of them are from the late-70s/early 80’s. I agree with you that the Vecna model might look too modern, but it’s not that far off given the improvement of casting technology around 85-87. I remember buying a ton of Ral Partha, Citadel and Grenadier new releases at that time. They were so much better and easier to paint than the older models.
I played in the 80's and well...we were on the geeky side. Myself and a few friends played sports but our group of players included the true "nerds" and we all fell into that grouping if a group had to be forced upon us. We were able to bring a couple friends into a game or two from the outside when they were in the minority and of course wanted to find out about this game. So, yeah, there was a mix and I have my old 1st ed player character record sheets with notes about our gameplay sessions to recall some of the friends who joined us.
You know what, they got the heart of it right and that’s what matters most to me personally. Players supporting each other, taking risks, no DM sulking because the players “beat” him, and everyone had a good time. Eddie said it best, *THAT* is why we play.
I'm a Secondary school teacher and I run a Sci fi/fantasy club for my students ages 13 - 16. The younger end especially have watched Stranger Things and definitely came interested in D&D, but most did not have the patience for the role play or character creation or any of the less presentational aspects of ttrpgs. Many of them expected they could drop in and play like a video game and struggled to sustain interest. The older kids got it and engaged regardless of whether they'd seen the show or not. Not sure that the show considers the maturity of the young people in terms of the confidence or imagination required is not necessarily widespread amongst similar cohorts in RL.
Thanks for the comment. In season 1, I admit being a bit surprised at the age of these kids gathering and playing D&D on their own. I’m sure it happens, but it seems like the exception not the rule. I’m involved with RPG‘s at the high school where I teach and find even some of my highschoolers lack the patience and all that. Hell, even adults! But yes, your point as well taken. In some ways, the show might give some unrealistic expectations, but overall I’m really happy with the treatment it gives the hobby.
You have to remember this is the 80s. TV was a thing, but the amount of distractions and entertainment people had were much more limited. All the kids here are big geeks. They all read LOTR and stuff. They call the forest nearby "Mirkwood" in S1. Kids today have a much lower attention span. I would encourage you to make NPCs downright silly and over the top to catch and maintain interest. Anyways, good on you. Kids need clubs like these to explore their imaginations.
Maybe it is because me and my party haven't been playing as much as other people here (I have been playing 1 year), but I found that that scene was a very accurate battle scene representation, and it is THE boss battle. When me and my party where fighting against Venomfang we stood up shouted, had our eyes glued to every roll anyone made. Maybe it is not perfect in terms of rules and whatnot, but I think it perfectly represents how it FEELS to play D&D with your friends
There was a bit of the player Vs dm energy for just a moment, but it felt more playful I think. Followed by Eddy hinting that they were close to winning by him suggesting that they COULD always run away when the player suggest it. Then the excitement he had when they decided to play. The antagonizing when Dustin misses, then the excitement for the nat20. You’re right when you say this isn’t what dnd is always like, but this IS EVERYTHING you want from your final bbeg fight.
For sure! I think some of the player vs. dm energy is natural and shouldn't be COMPLETELY avoided. But at the end of the day you hope everyone has fun and the overriding tone is more collaborative than competitive.
Episode 1 of season 4 was the greatest depiction of D&D at the table that has been in a show. The excitement, the debates, the victory, and the pleasure of the DM's face when they beat Vecna. That is the essence of D&D.
I started playing D&D in 1980, and played all through the 80's. I still actively play and run games, and have recently broke out the original 1E materials to play with. The people that I played with in the 80's were all not quite mainstream or cool. There was a lot of Eddie Munsen types, but there were a few popular types playing as well. We even had girls in our group, which was apparently very unusual at the time. As far as the occult scares of the time, I heard them, and then played with people from the church I attended at the time. Lol! As far as the show did, I loved it and was very happy how it was shown.
I find it funny whenever my family try to relate to me by making thin references from what they have learned about d&d through Stranger Things. A show I have never watched, but have repeatedly found interesting in hearing their second hand iterations of “what the kids in the show play.”
Oh hey, I didn't notice when I watched it but that Vecna miniature is a Reaper Bones mini, the skeletal necromancer or whatever it is. I know because I have one that I painted. Interesting that they would also make the tip of the staff glow green.
I've been playing D&D since... forever... I started playing in 1980 or 1981. We were all nerds. The guys I played with were also in my high school's Computer Club. The Satanic Panic was a real thing. We watched Mazes and Monsters and decided that we needed to go explore our local sewer drains:)
Our group in 1983 was a bunch of weekend athletes and some extended family and friends, who got together Sunday nights for Pizza, Beer and D&D after a day of softball, football, etc... There was not a lot of role playing yet in those days though. It was a lot of hack and grab with a lot of monster killing! Over the years we did get a bit better at the role playing pieces.
In the 80s the crazy satanic panic was a bit over the top.I had a friend use the trunk of my car to hide his books,so his parents would not throw them out when he was at school.
The Vecna mini is indeed too recent, it's a Reaper Miniatures lich that's missing its left arm for some reason. The paladin mini is definitely period appropriate, it's an old Grenadier paladin from the AD&D "Specialists" boxed set.
The artifact Vecna's Hand is Vecna's severed arm. If you mean the Reaper miniatures lich comes with its left arm, That's easy someone cut off the arm to make it Vecna. Totally something a DM would do.
Started in 1979, played every version but 4. I was an outcast at school. I did not fit in with anyone, but I did play Football. The people I played with, where also the outcasts. I did play with a a guy who was an ordained Baptist minister/Police Reserve, former military. I did have conversations with a few parents during Satanic Panic. One mother even claimed to have seen Satan. Her son ended up being a trouble youth who was arrested (he played a few times) OH, and I was also a metal head and Guitar player. I avoided drugs.
To be fair, the Hopper Soviet Prison-stuff did lead up to a pretty satisfying conclusion with Hopper as a true Slayer of Monsters, and I can't possibly not like that... Personally, I hope there will be a continuation of using D&D villains. And I REALLY hope for a new introduction in next season: Tiamat. Just imagine Will's painting being a foreshadowing of a multi-headed dragon they have to battle...
The first time I ever played was 1991. Is that close enough to the 80's? But I was in the Army, and I just got to Korea. My roommate introduced me to the game my first night. I ended up playing the whole year I was there.
The Satanic Panic kept me away from D&D until the mid 90s. When I finally got to try it, I thought it wasn't great, but that was probably just the group dynamics. It wasn't until close to the release of 3.5 that I finally gave it another try and saw how much fun it could be.
Straight answer, the "Period" minis is relatively accurate, Nate! -- The Paladin Mini with the Sword and Tabard with the cross (like a Templar) was NO SHIT, the 1st miniature my DM gifted me to start my figure collection back in 1989.
: ) 51 yr old here, had been playing since early 82. I thought the show did a pretty good job with it. Sorry to hear you still encountered the 'Satanic' thing in the early 90s. Though I do remember seeing in the news book burnings of "Harry Potter books" in the late 90s so ouch (by then I had moved more into online games like Ultima Online, but it was really cool to see years later / I guess we call them the oughts? the Wizards of the Coast stores - I dd like perusing through the many books but my money had other priorities). It's been really great to see more people being able to enjoy the game through the decades. Back then it was basically that scene in E.T. (a 1982 film about an English as a 2nd language student and the host family ;) ) and the awesome cartoon series/and I guess related toys. (and of course the miniature catalogs if you wanted to buy direct from the manufacturers). Recently I returned to school/university -right before the pandemic and it was awesome seeing D&D still being regularly played - and noticing as I'd walk pass the same faces that they were in a campaign. And actually encountering minor side drama of people (who were very smart / doing active research in labs) wondering how they can be friends with such and such DM, cuz they were DMing a game too. *smirk* It was cute. :D And yes I of course remember the D&D hysteria but oddly enough I never got any direct backlash for it. And during middle school (83-85) in an actual Catholic private middle school in north Seattle they let us run D&D games in the school library during recess. I also noticed the comments of people getting 1e and 2e mixed up so I'm glad that has been pointed out and corrected in regards how 1e handled things via the tables charts. Yeah the dice. heh I remember the crayon days in the early 80s. I would hear through the grapevine of nicer dice being made available but honestly I don't remember what year/and I might have had actually seen them at hobby stores. But I only got dice when I needed them (and my money probably went to purchase those Steve Jackson games that were sold in those small pocket sized ziplock bags vs. getting more dice), and still have dice that I still keep in the tube it came in from the comic book store that I got in 95. Anyway thanks for making the video and have fun adventuring, creating, and exploring everyone. (and of course when you can and esp. if you have the patience - / I've had my share of ouch players but fortunately not that many / try to make it fun & hopefully interesting / organize esp. for those interested in trying it out) : )
At my school, in the 80's, only the band kids were playing D&D, and it was just like 5 of us in a school of 550. Western rural Virginia. I played sports but not the ones valued by high school society back then.
I find season 3 was the most realistic out of all the seasons for d&d so far. One person wants to play but the rest of the party is just too busy doing some other stuff. Also I've seen people who tried to get into d&d after watching stranger things, and they often complain to me about how many rules there are. It's funny to see them struggle with that while I'm just reading faerun lore about its wars and historical events and such.
It's great that since the show started D+D has been part of it. I remember the whole "Satanic Panic" panic thing in the 80"s when Metal music and D+D were blamed for leading people to being murders and/or Satanists. If it didn't do that, then at minimum it would make you crazy! I remember thinking, wow are we back in the 50's or what, it's just a fun game.
Thank you for the videos and insight on all the D&D content you do. Stranger things re-kindled my spark for D&D and it’s so much more fun than I thought it would be. You’re amazing as always and keep up the awesome work 😊
What i really love about this scene is that Eddie is already pictured as a creepy weirdo, agressive and jugmental, not hesitating to pressure Mike ans Dustin, especially unwelcoming of outsiders, overall he doesnt feel like he's a friendly guy to be around. But once he gets behind the dm screen he's dropping the act and is a great dm working alongside his players to create a great story and a great experience for all of them. It's a wonderful thing to show to people who want to start in D&D
That episode of Stranger Things along with the Roller Arena probably my favorite 80s nostalgia since it certainly was the 1980s along with mall scenes. One of my parent's friends son was like an older brother and about the main characters age in Stranger Things back then. I remember one of his friends had miniatures, magic kits, D&D books or just about everything D&D then. One day I went over with him to his friends where they had a D&D session. Me being the little brat (age 4) annoying the older kids eventually had the DM frustratingly tell me, "I'll turn you into a rabbit"! I remember I got so scared I ran out of the house and fell off the front porch almost breaking my arm, lol. That was my first experience with D&D in the early 1980s. I played the D&D themed RPG computer games in the 80s and 90s, but didn't play real D&D until the late 90s. From what I remember, it was mostly the metal heads that played it and yes they looked a lot like Eddie.
I felt it, felt it all!! Our former DM got this hyped up when we played, which definitely pumped the group. I have also been in other groups, from taking the game way too seriously to in-game group fighting going out of game to just boring all around. It's different everywhere.
I played in the early 80s... my dand buddies were all in speech and debate and I was the lone football player, I feel like I was the odd man out... like Lucas... half nerd half sporto. I have some very detailed ral partha minis from back in the day (but yes, many of them were simple) and my dice, that I still have are just like you described - sharp edges and corners. I also remember my mom asking me to put away my dandd books when we were in front of certain family or guests because they would be sensitive or judgmental. I haven't played in years, but watching ST has me thinking about it. Cheers!
It did the scene justice, pretty good D&D scene. However, as you point out - - there are no indications on what the Rogue did during her turn. I will assume it was either some sort of poison dagger action, or shooting an arrow with incredible precision, or a sudden super stealth backstab on Vecna. As for the other characters, none of their actions are described. The part I enjoyed the most is the description of the scene when the cultists are celebrating Vecna's arrival, along with the fallen Necromancer's description.
Well, Stranger Things is a fun show. However, the version they are showing is AD&D 1st Edition, not 5th. So I would suggest introducing players to OSRIC AD&D which is the modernized OGL version of AD&D .WHich you can get as a PDF or in print. And I agree D&D is more than combat but we want to see them portray role-playing.
Yeah D&D started as a nartive co-op wargame were you could roleplay. And the lack of it in the scene could be as simple as it's not their play style like the over animated reactions and DND and long dice throws are not mine.
I was 14 in 1983 (the last year I played before I started again to teach my own kids in the mid 2000s) and our games were a lot like this at times. Candles, minis, acting out actions and attacks and so on. We had a lot of chill table time as well, but I can relate to the game the kids are playing. It was close enough and super fun/entertaining. Great content, easy sub!
Stranger Things and also other popular representations of D&D on Twitch and TH-cam really put a lot of pressure on GMs. I could never run a game like Eddie does, or Matt Mercer, and after every session I feel like my players are disappointed and unsatisfied with my GMing. After a game they will say things like "I had fun" or "this was nice", but they have to, because if I won't run the game, noone will and there won't be a game at all. That is the burden of the Forever-GM.
Remember it is collaborative and they need to bring their own energy into the game. Do you have a character you play with them? If not, I think it will improve things (even if add more work) when you are part of their team and not just a face and voice behind the scene. Make sure to play that character as more a follower.
There is one thing you missed. You said that lore about Vecna was, at the time, limited to only information about the artifacts named after him, The Hand and Eye of Vecna, and yet Mike makes clear reference to Kas, the servant/bodyguard that betrayed Vecna and cut off these parts of him, saying that "(Vecna) was killed by Kas".
Interesting! I actually didn't catch the Kas reference in the show. I hear it now, btu at the time it sounded like "cat" to me. Thanks for pointing this out! This one is a bit iffy, but also not totally out of the realm of possibility. Under the Sword of Kas entry in Eldritch Wizardry (1976): "Another item connected with the legend of the lich Vecna is the Sword of Kas, his onetime bodyguard. . . Its powers are only dimly hinted at by legend, but Kas was said to be the mightiest swordsman of his age." So, in mind it isn't much of a stretch at all to decide that Vecna was betrayed by his bodyguard, Kas, but that could be viewed as a stretch, sure.
I have been a player since 1981 and I played in secret during the “satanic panic” from my parents. We had the fancy colorful plastic see thru dice that we have today.. I am 54 and I think ST’s accurately described the excitement of a typical big battle… however we did argue quite a bit about rules!
This show got me involved in D&D. I started with the Stranger Things D&D set, that I got signed by Noah Schnapp, (Will) at a convention, gathered books, maps, and miniatures, including the same as the ones used in Stranger Things. I have a good idea on how to play. All that I still need are players. Still, I find it cool to have.
I was playing in 83 and I must say our games were a lot closer to the first season portrayal of DnD in stranger things . By high school in the mid 80's the group was pretty diverse in regards to we had the stereotypical geeks & creatives and well laid back sports Jocks like myself the DM. I may have been the captain of the school swim team and rugby team and the highest scorer of the water polo team , but I was down to put on a silly voice and portray the sneaky goblin or the pompous town mayor .
First, I would like to say great video I loved it. I think that the show Stranger Things represented playing D&D well for a TV audience getting the point across. I think if it was a tutorial on how to actually play the game it would be another TH-cam channel. As for the gaming set up, I think a game mat was pretty new for that time. My friends and I had graph paper until I guess 1990 or so, and those metal minis. I love the DM screen; I still have mine in good condition. As for me growing up in the 80's, my friends really two camps the nerds, and the jocks. With that being said I feel like I can relate with the character, Lucas Sinclair to a point. I never left the nerd crowd. And yes, talking about D&D around girls in those days could make you a social pariah. In my opinion we are enjoying the heyday of D&D right now. Not just in the products available, but the acceptance of the game socially, the ability to reach out and meet new players and DM's in order to play a game (In person or online). The future looks bright ahead, so it might get even better.
When I played back as a kid only the so called outcasts (the nerds, the stoners, the freaks, etc) played. While it is well received today to play, during this time it universally wasn't.
Played in the 80s after school care. We mostly had an English teacher who DM and she was great she also taught us a lot about creative writing and brainstorming techniques I still prefer ADnD1e but not many people do. I run a Dark Souls 5e game
Sports movies don't get the real feel either. American football with all its breaks. Normal football with 90 minutes still 0-0. Military movies with the hours of briefings and "downtime". It comes with trying to squeeze in alot of content in a short period. Never mind in a series. Great video! Some food for thought.
Yes I remember back in the 80s dnd was the scapegoat for suicides and other crazy events. But moving forward, when me and my friends played we were the NERDS, DORKS. But that didn't stop us from playing. To this day my mum still has a picture of us playing out on the back porch. The memories is what is left as most of us are long gone....We are now in our fifties. But to do it all over again with those friends I would. Times have changed and so have the rules. It would be neat to see how it would look now as to back in the 80s.
When I started playing in 1976, our group included HS students and (mostly enlisted) soldiers and airmen. (We were playing in a group of military dependents and military personnel in West Germany at the time.) I didn't notice any real difference between the people playing wargames (with or without miniatures) and the people playing RPGs, though of course some people preferred one or the other. The Venn diagrams shared a lot of area.
In Brazil we have "Ordem Paranormal [Paranormal Order(?)], that is a stream made by a youtuber called Cellbit. It's very well produced, with a software to emulate a 3D map, original soundtrack, in a Studio and sometimes the players cosplay. And all i see is kids wanting tô play RPG, but procrastinating, because "it's never gonna be so cool as" Stranger Things or Ordem Paranormal. Once I was in a geek event and some people (dressed with the Hellfire Club shirt), instead of stay and play rpg for the first time with their friends, wanted to come back home to watch the Cellbit's RPG. While I was activelly inviting them to play Ordem Paranormal, Dungeons and Dragons or systems that are easier to learn, like Lasers & Feelings.
The first time I played D&D was the last week of 5th grade (1984). The teacher allowed us to play but with a watchful eye as to make sure there were no demonic worshiping going on. That got me hooked, I was drawn into this new magical world that allowed us to create our own story as opposed to being stuck with a video game narrative or movie or novel plot that just ends. My parents got me the AD&D beginners kit for my 12th birthday that Halloween and I started playing. The only problem was finding kids interested whose parents would allow them to play. Also, I modified the rules as the DM to make it more fun for lesser intelligent kids playing as well as some younger kids who wanted to play. I created a campaign called the Necromancer's plague over the evergreen forest. The evergreen forest was the nickname we called the woods on the edge of our neighborhood where we would explore. The main plot of the campaign was a growing darkness was creeping into the evergreen forest slowly killing it from the west on the shores of the golden lake (Lake Allatoona near our neighborhood). The party was asked by the townsfolk elders on the eastern edge of the forest to investigate, confirm and possibly kill whatever was causing the darkness. They encountered all kinds of creatures I pulled form DnD and Middle Earth. The campaign was more about story telling than getting bogged down with what the rulebook said. I would just create the narrative on the fly if I wasn't sure what the actual D&D rules were. That was the best campaign I ever did; it was my story and my friends in the neighborhood all played along. I'm 51 years old now, my parents still live in the same house, I often think about this campaign as I drive through the streets of my childhood home and see the trails that bleed into the woods on the western edges of the neighborhood. Regarding Stranger Things, Season 4 really hit home with me, specifically Eddie Munson's character. I can't explain why, just who he was, I vividly remember older kids at the time who fit his character on the show. I read the book they wrote for him after season 4, The flight of Icarus which dives more into his story set 2 years prior. It really took me back to my childhood. I loved how ST incorporated DnD in the show, especially in the opening scene of season 1 when the 4 kids are playing downstairs in the Mike's basement.
Started playing AD&D mid 80s... the big bad guy for us was Asmodeus back then. We played with all the classics, the deck of many things, the sword of Kas, the axe of the Dwarfish Lord's... etc... Our campaign took nearly 9 years.... We had to keep track of every xp, I was only 10th level when we stopped...
Hey Nate, yes i played in the eighties, 82-86 {College years) I remember when Mazes & Monsters came out . We thought it was silly. In Australia we never got the hysteria, but we heard about it. My fav part of ST is when Will donates his box set and it goes to Erica. The red box is exactly what we played from. Basic set.
@@WASD20 sure there are towns and shops. But mostly used as a price lists and so on. Most games were revolving about dungeon delving and majority of groups were completely skipping it to just start at the entrance to the dungeon.
@@OtocinclusAffinis That may have been your experience, but you're the only one of 50,000 viewers to point this out. Still, I'm willing to listen to others with the same argument if anyone wants to chime in. :)
I've played D&D a few times, and no one is a professional actor, so while we can get engrossed some of the fun is stuff like "I run away from the flirty barmaid" or "I dunno what to roll"
my mom and i were going through items from her parents home and found her dnd monster manual and dm guide published by TSR Games in 1979. its cool to see the manuals they would’ve been using technically
We played DnD at after school care in the school hall, then the renovation part of the expanded library we had cool desks and chairs, but by today standards it was just meeting rooms standard office furniture. We had teachers who DM we played chess and Traveller and heaps of model making
new players prepare for the moment where everyone whips put their phone while the DM goes over their notes to figure out what they were going to say next
AD&D started "breaking out" in 1983. My friends and I, who had been playing for about 3 years, were approached by all manner of other kids to play. The "cool" kids especially wanted to try it out. This changed, however, when the Satanic Panic caught mainstream success around 1985-1986. It didn't become "uncool" until the Panic took hold. Game playing and imagination appeals to everyone, but only a few people are willing to follow their passions in the face of social stigma.
I disagree. It was never a game "cool" kids wanted to play. They might have wanted to dabble in it to see what the game had to offer, but they dropped it the moment they recognized the majority of players were geeks and nerds. Blaming it on "The Satanic Panic," that was mostly an adult reaction, is one of those correlation doesn't mean causation things.
About the timeline issue of Vecna being a playable antagonist two years after the scene, I think Eddie home brewed it. That’s why the players are so surprised “Vecna is dead! He was killed by Kas!” Which, at that point, was the canon truth.
I was born in the 80's so I have zero reference for the decade outside of Mazes and Monsters. I had a theory that Nate was the kid in real life based on the movie Mazes and Monsters all grown up after he was found, but Nate debunks this theory in the video. My Mom also said "kids commit murder and suicide playing Dungeons and Dragons". So we went on to collect Magic Cards instead and then didn't find DnD until my 30's too !
Which D&D game is more fun to watch? Which is more realistic? A) Stranger Things B) Freaks and Geeks C) The Big Bang Theory D) Community E) Mazes and Monsters F) E. T.
My mom burned my friend's AD&D PHB. She claimed a fiery hand came out of the fire and tried to pull her in. That was problematic. Many harmless cassettes, albums, T-shirts, comic books, fantasy and sci-fi novels (and a few pornos) also saw their end on that pyre of wackadoodle nonsense. I literally had to hide D&D material under the house and put campaigns together at school or at friends' houses. I DM'd like that all through High School. D&D4Life. Still playing 40 years later. Take that, Mom! Still love ya.
I started playing D&D in the eary 80's when I was still a school kid. My first ever game was with one of my best friends from school and 3 Hells Angels who were several years older. My regular group was school friends who would generally be called "nerds" by today's standards however I am not sure that has anything to do with the game, just they were the kids I hung out with. I remember at the time games were very much like glorified board games and it took quite a long time to discover the real role-playing bits of games...
I played in middle school, early 80s. Our DM was the son of a pastor and was an arty, very smart kid. One player was another really smart kid, really into tech (now an automotive engineer). The other player and I were average students who played sports. The D&D scenes in the first season of Stranger Things really nailed it. I felt like I was watching our little group playing. Also remember the satanic panic era. Last week on a visit home, I found out that my mother had talked to one of the respected older people in our church about my D&D playing. Apparently he said no biggie because my mother never said anything about it to me.
Regardless of any errors in game timeline or game play, this was D&D done right. Everyone was invested in the game and had a great time. The DM was happy when the good guys won. The players encouraged each other. This is the heart and soul of table top rpgs.
Well said!
Best moment, is when Eddie bows to the camera and says "and THAT is why we play". Clearly directed at the audience.
This is totally off topic, but nice pfp
Same. I’ve never played dnd but I have played this game called dingo. Wich is dnd but more died down and easier to play.
@@dorkstar1029 I mean D&D is very simple, excluding spells.
@@concernedcommenter8258 no. DnD is an incredibly rules heavy game, there are multiple hundred page books with lots of rules and that no one can agree on. Especially when compared to rules-lite systems, DnD is complicated as all hell.
@@weepingwalnut @JJ Afton is right. Early editions of D&D, that is, pre AD&D, were simpler and required only a soft-cover book or two. (Generally, what is called BX or the "D&D Basic Set/Moldvay D&D: the Basic edition edited by Tom Moldvay, followed by the Expert set.) Newer versions of this early form (Old School Essentials, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Castles & Crusades) are similar in that way.
I agree: D&D 3e and after are complicated as all hell! Even AD&D 1st edition, which is implied as the version played in the scene, was not as complicated as has become.
When Erica rolled the nat 20 and Eddie said "that's why we play." made me so happy. The worst trope is the player vs dm and there not even a hint of it in the scene.
Exactly. And precisely how I run my game. I don't actively try and kill my players -- never understood the appeal of DM's like that. Now if they go and do something incredibly stupid to put themselves in (more of) harms way, well, then... let the dice do as the will. I love it when I present a challenge/situation (thinking I've thought of every conceivable angle of dealing with it) and the PC's come up with something completely out of left field.
@@asraiSOA yes, when you as a DM plan
for everything and the group take a left turn you never even considerd just make the game more fun. If you at the end of a session have a excited played group it is just the best DM feeling.
@@ThomasVanhala Absolutely!
We DM's like having fun too! 🙂
@@asraiSOA You can actively try to kill your players AND be a good DM! You're playing the bad guys! The bad guys WANT to kill the PCs! Don't be afraid to take the kiddie gloves off and let the dice fall where they may!
I’ve a long history with DnD. Harkening back to the OG rules, then onto AD&D and 2e. Life pretty much got in the way of 3-4.5e. We had a friend (we’ll call G) a few years back who wanted to start running a 5e game. WTH, it had been a while, the halflings/kids were vying to try it and my wife never played. First session G invites our entire friend group to play. I sh!t you not, there was her family, mine, and friends… there were like 16 PC’s. I was like, ‘Um, you’re going to run a game with THIS many players?’ Not to have G’s pride be called into question, G proclaimed ‘of course.’ I said ‘It’s just that any number over 5 can get pretty ‘cumbersome.’ G: ‘Oh it’ll be fine.’ Did I mention G is a control freak in general? Anyway, G then decides to task me, my brother-in-law, and G’s other half (all previous OG players) with HELPING all of the other ‘NEWBS’ - because OBVIOUSLY we didn’t have anything else to do… aside from running our own PC’s and getting familiar with the 5e rules and such.
Needless-to-say, the number of PC’s diminished rapidly with each successive session as people would sit around for hours just waiting for their turn to do something… and then of course combat was a clusterf*ck with that many players. We ended up finishing the beginning of G’s campaign with 9 of us still ‘playing’ - still a handful of a mess, but we got it done. However, it left me and my family with a pretty bad taste. It was disheartening to watch each of my kids NOT having fun.
Flash forward a year of two and having chatted with my family several times about how disappointing it was that their first endeavor into the game was such a let down - they start bugging me to run session or two with them. They finally talked me into it and my wife then asked if I would consider another friend of ours and his son (E and En) joining as well - they wanted a father/son ‘bonding’ event. Sure, why not. I can do a few ‘one-shots’ and that’ll be that. Well, a little over a year being the ‘forever’ DM and linking several random ‘one-shots’ into a now modified Lost Mine of Phandalin campaign… here we are.
So, why bore you with this story you didn’t ask for? To the point of your previous posts… When our friend, E, and his son En, first came over for our session zero and several subsequent games, En (15 at the time) was a HUGE DnD ‘nerd’ who knew ALL about the game - but never played - was quiet, reserved, barely spoke to any one else - before, during, or after the game. He would get in the role play a bit though. He slowly started becoming more sociable and began making food, snacks, and treats to bring to the games - and it was damn good eats too, I say! So, a few weeks ago the party end up facing the Green Dragon from LMoP. The PC’s all decided to attempt to ‘negotiate’ with it… all but one. En’s PC in pure RPG fashion, bucks the narrative and starts pleading his case as to why they need to KILL the dragon. Everyone is attempting to reason with him, but he’s not having ANY of it. I sat back and listened to this ‘debate’ that went on for at least 20 min - all the while trying not to LMAO - and watched this ‘kid’ burst out of his shell and hold his own against 2 adult players and 3 young adults… and WIN the debate! He’s not been the same kid since…
“That’s why we play!”
In 1983, all the guys in my D&D group were college athletes with girlfriends. I never thought D&D was a game for nerds but that it was a game for anybody who wanted to utilize their imagination.
Thanks for the comment!
My experience in jr high around the same time was just like the show, although many people played basketball (including me) it was dominated by a fringe group of people (Skaters and heavy metal pot heads). The “hellfire club” really fit my memory from the 80’s.
My dad grew up in the 80’s uk and said it was for nerds and the weird kids so idk maybe it’s a mixed bag depending on the area & school lol
@@bruhdon4748 in the 80s in the UK, it was certainly a nerd pursuit as was being a Thrash fan!
@@leipherd8118 haven’t listened to thrash metal in a long while
I loved the Eddie DM scene. While it didn't truly represent any session that I've been a part of, it did remind me of the best moments over years of playing. I was fortunate to have connected with a really good DM.
Same!!
I grew up in a little town. The outcasts, metalheads, nerds, etc were the DnD players. My mom made me keep my books in my car because she didn't want "Satan" in her house. We played in garages, basements, and later at others houses.
I, too, started in my friend's mom's basement lol. Although it was in the mid 2000s haha.
My favorite was when he said, "VECNA LIVES!!!" It was like an homage to the adventure by the same name ^~^ I think that was dropped as a line on purpose.
To be fair its a 5 mins scene , kinda hard to really show everything aspect of what D&D is about in this short time . personally find this super cool they included AD&D in the show . :)
Absolutely agree
What I love the most about this scene is Eddie's behaviour and reaction to his players. Such a wholesome DM
In all fairness, they only showed the highlight reel of the basketball game too... It may leave people with the impression that all high school basketball players are good and wins always come down to a dramatic last second shot at the buzzer.... They didn't show the players who were benched or the times when the basketball game was at a stalemate :P
The huddle was to suggest D&D was just as much a sport to them as the basketball game was to them. It only showed the exciting moments of both to make a visual simile. It's the filmmaker's way of saying the D&D game was just as important as another person's basketball game. It was just how people viewed them differently. Neither one is the end-all-be-all of what matters... They are both the same thing to the respective people involved. That's why the D&D group in the show also had their own jerseys to wear when they played. That was on purpose too. That's the filmmaker being poetic. He rolled a 20 in the basketball game in the same way as his little sister made the final shot at the buzzer in the D&D game. ☺
I don't like this post, I don't know why I just don't like it. I think you missed the point of what this video was about in all fairness. Channel is about D&D man not basketball lol.
@@WillWildsOutdoorAdventures That wasn't my point; I was saying that scene was flipping back and forth between the two events to make a simile of how important D&D was to their group.
I am 58 years old and played D&D since 1977 (I skipped 4e). The reality of growing up in the late 70s-80s and playing D&D was nothing like Stranger Things. Being a nerd or geek was not socially acceptable back then and my group would NEVER go tell anyone outside our group that we played. We were already outside the cool kids club, so we didn’t feel the need to tell anyone for fear of being more of a social outcast. It is great today, that geek culture is populate and acceptable!
Same, almost 58, & started in 77.
The characters of stranger things are social outcasts and actually got followed and nearly killed because some christians believed their D&D club was a satanist cult. So yeah in the context of the show it was a very bad idea to make the club public.
I grew up in the Bible belt & I remember the big DnD is satanic scare which was still around into the 90's. DnD groups was strictly word of mouth.
I started playing in 83 and it wasn't considered a cool thing to do. Some kids were bullied for being a gamer and called geeks. I never was never bullied for playing D&D but I also played sport during school.
Is that not how the show represents it? It’s still not socially acceptable in the show
Erica: *rolls a nat 20 to hit Vecna*
Eddie: Great! Roll damage
Erica: *rolls eight 1s*
It's important to remember that this was the climax of Eddie's D&D campaign. The grand finale of the fantasy story.
Absolutely
The Eye and Hand of Vecna were also mentioned in the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide published in 1979. You'll find them on page 157 along with the Sword of Kas on page 161.
The best part of the game is that even if the dm is making it hard to the point the players call it befro the game jokingly sadistic but you see eddy celanrate the the victory we the players he is happy that they overcame the deadly challange he said
Absolutely. Just like it should be in my mind.
Eddie is a clone of myself from that era. Ha. About the huddle. Yes, in the early years of the game, players were seen doing this. The DMs were more in a role of trying to kill your group. They were designing hard dungeons. While happy when you succeeded, they were still designing a series of corridors that were meant for the players to really think about, right down to the marking stones. Today's game is much more story-based than survival. During the time, we had to get through the Satanic Panic to play. I think Stranger Things was pretty accurate on the difficulty of getting players. Some people thought it was for geeks or anti-socials, others believed it was for the demon-worshiping sort. Most people stayed away from it. Many just didn't "get it." No sports player was playing it unless they were really able to hide it. Still, most did not want to. The grownups did look down on it. It was on the news, preached against in community services in a negative light. So coaches would mirror the distaste to their kids, regularly.
I started playing in 1987. I was introduced to it from a fellow Marine, so it was all fellow Marines that made up my first D&D group.
I know there was a D&D club in high school, but that was for the "smart" kids.
Stranger Things is a great show and I think they did well in portraying D&D.
Nice video
When I first started playing it was on an Air Force base, in late '79 or early '80. We had almost all ranks playing in our group and even some civilian contractors. At times we had so many people that we had to start a second dungeon.
That’s amazing
I was there in 1986 playing 1e AD&D. Although stylized for media consumption, everything did seem period appropriate. We still had some of the old plastic dice floating around, but there were better dice sets by then. Also, there were great miniatures by that time as well. We never huddled like a sports team, but we did pass notes and go into other rooms away from the DM to discuss plans.
What was said about the dice might be correct for early 80s AD&D, but by the time the 4th season represents there were already vast quality improvements for game dice and figures. The game had its own magazine that sold items.
Im a new d&d player (about a year) and I've been watching a lot of your videos on character sheets to combat systems and overall how to play. It was pretty cool seeing Stranger Things adding this epic scene and it makes me want to play more. I just want to personally thank you for teaching all us newbies how to play❤️👍
My first set of Chessex dice looked just like those black and red ones in the scene. I got them in 1986 and ST season 4 is in 1986
Well then I stand corrected!
Honestly, the first season scene of them playing in the basement seemed more historically accurate to me, but Eddie hovering over the DM wall with the image of the 1e AD&D DM Screen moved the nostalgia needle for me.
From what I understand, the scene where Erica tells Eddie what character she is playing is also very era-appropriate. Checking out Matt Colville's videos, according to him during the times of 1st and 2nd edition it was not uncommon for players to join the tables with already developed characters with items that were given to them by other DM's. It was widely accepted practice that if you got something from your DM and then you got invited with your character to someone elses game, you'd bring everything over no questions asked.
That is correct. Early on in AD&D a person was far less likely to create new characters all the time. They had one core character they made and it was used for any games they happen to join. If the character was too high of a level for a game then it was DM decision to allow the level anyway, handicap the character, or hand over for the new player to use an already made completely new character. Sometimes a person was invited to join because someone else quit and the level of a person's character might determine who was asked. A common question was, "what level are you at," as in the character you were expected to have used in other games.
@@n.d.m.515well, unless they failed their death save... XD
Holy crap I forgot about this channel for 6 years and I'm so sorry. You were the first resource I ever watched when I was trying to get into DnD and got designated forever DM by getting my friends into it! Your "how to play dnd" videos were my very first resource back during stranger things season 1 and I'm so grateful for your content! Notification bell on from now on!
When my mom saw this season, she told me about how "Eddie plays so well that everyone else needs to fight together to beat his character!"
Plus, that back-and-forth about Sinclair's level made it seem like characters' abilities are related to their players' skills (like LoL or CoD).
I played D&D during the 80’s starting in 83.The types of people shown playing g it in Stranger things is correct,they’re not just using stereotypes,back then it wasn’t popular or cool to play ,you definitely wouldn’t have the popular kids and jock types playing in,not here in the U.K. anyway,the scene is as completely different back then to what it’s like now and the change is for the better.Luckily here in the U.K. we didn’t have the satanic panic thing,it just seemed ridiculous from over here.
Regarding the miniatures. I agree they are period-accurate, but most of them are from the late-70s/early 80’s. I agree with you that the Vecna model might look too modern, but it’s not that far off given the improvement of casting technology around 85-87. I remember buying a ton of Ral Partha, Citadel and Grenadier new releases at that time. They were so much better and easier to paint than the older models.
"This is why we play" comment on the players wining the battle against Vecna so encompasses the attraction of D&D.
I played in the 80's and well...we were on the geeky side. Myself and a few friends played sports but our group of players included the true "nerds" and we all fell into that grouping if a group had to be forced upon us. We were able to bring a couple friends into a game or two from the outside when they were in the minority and of course wanted to find out about this game. So, yeah, there was a mix and I have my old 1st ed player character record sheets with notes about our gameplay sessions to recall some of the friends who joined us.
You know what, they got the heart of it right and that’s what matters most to me personally. Players supporting each other, taking risks, no DM sulking because the players “beat” him, and everyone had a good time. Eddie said it best, *THAT* is why we play.
I'm a Secondary school teacher and I run a Sci fi/fantasy club for my students ages 13 - 16. The younger end especially have watched Stranger Things and definitely came interested in D&D, but most did not have the patience for the role play or character creation or any of the less presentational aspects of ttrpgs. Many of them expected they could drop in and play like a video game and struggled to sustain interest. The older kids got it and engaged regardless of whether they'd seen the show or not. Not sure that the show considers the maturity of the young people in terms of the confidence or imagination required is not necessarily widespread amongst similar cohorts in RL.
Thanks for the comment. In season 1, I admit being a bit surprised at the age of these kids gathering and playing D&D on their own. I’m sure it happens, but it seems like the exception not the rule. I’m involved with RPG‘s at the high school where I teach and find even some of my highschoolers lack the patience and all that. Hell, even adults!
But yes, your point as well taken. In some ways, the show might give some unrealistic expectations, but overall I’m really happy with the treatment it gives the hobby.
You have to remember this is the 80s. TV was a thing, but the amount of distractions and entertainment people had were much more limited. All the kids here are big geeks. They all read LOTR and stuff. They call the forest nearby "Mirkwood" in S1. Kids today have a much lower attention span. I would encourage you to make NPCs downright silly and over the top to catch and maintain interest. Anyways, good on you. Kids need clubs like these to explore their imaginations.
Maybe it is because me and my party haven't been playing as much as other people here (I have been playing 1 year), but I found that that scene was a very accurate battle scene representation, and it is THE boss battle. When me and my party where fighting against Venomfang we stood up shouted, had our eyes glued to every roll anyone made. Maybe it is not perfect in terms of rules and whatnot, but I think it perfectly represents how it FEELS to play D&D with your friends
There was a bit of the player Vs dm energy for just a moment, but it felt more playful I think. Followed by Eddy hinting that they were close to winning by him suggesting that they COULD always run away when the player suggest it. Then the excitement he had when they decided to play. The antagonizing when Dustin misses, then the excitement for the nat20.
You’re right when you say this isn’t what dnd is always like, but this IS EVERYTHING you want from your final bbeg fight.
For sure! I think some of the player vs. dm energy is natural and shouldn't be COMPLETELY avoided. But at the end of the day you hope everyone has fun and the overriding tone is more collaborative than competitive.
Episode 1 of season 4 was the greatest depiction of D&D at the table that has been in a show. The excitement, the debates, the victory, and the pleasure of the DM's face when they beat Vecna. That is the essence of D&D.
Agreed!
I started playing D&D in 1980, and played all through the 80's. I still actively play and run games, and have recently broke out the original 1E materials to play with. The people that I played with in the 80's were all not quite mainstream or cool. There was a lot of Eddie Munsen types, but there were a few popular types playing as well. We even had girls in our group, which was apparently very unusual at the time. As far as the occult scares of the time, I heard them, and then played with people from the church I attended at the time. Lol! As far as the show did, I loved it and was very happy how it was shown.
I find it funny whenever my family try to relate to me by making thin references from what they have learned about d&d through Stranger Things. A show I have never watched, but have repeatedly found interesting in hearing their second hand iterations of “what the kids in the show play.”
Oh hey, I didn't notice when I watched it but that Vecna miniature is a Reaper Bones mini, the skeletal necromancer or whatever it is. I know because I have one that I painted. Interesting that they would also make the tip of the staff glow green.
Yep. Slightly modified from the reaper version, but yes.
Started playing in 1981 with friends in the neighborhood. We began with the Basic and Expert sets and "graduated" to AD&D.
I've been playing D&D since... forever... I started playing in 1980 or 1981. We were all nerds. The guys I played with were also in my high school's Computer Club.
The Satanic Panic was a real thing. We watched Mazes and Monsters and decided that we needed to go explore our local sewer drains:)
Our group in 1983 was a bunch of weekend athletes and some extended family and friends, who got together Sunday nights for Pizza, Beer and D&D after a day of softball, football, etc... There was not a lot of role playing yet in those days though. It was a lot of hack and grab with a lot of monster killing! Over the years we did get a bit better at the role playing pieces.
Nice! Sounds fun. Thanks for the comment.
In the 80s the crazy satanic panic was a bit over the top.I had a friend use the trunk of my car to hide his books,so his parents would not throw them out when he was at school.
lol. nice. not surprising.
The Vecna mini is indeed too recent, it's a Reaper Miniatures lich that's missing its left arm for some reason.
The paladin mini is definitely period appropriate, it's an old Grenadier paladin from the AD&D "Specialists" boxed set.
The artifact Vecna's Hand is Vecna's severed arm. If you mean the Reaper miniatures lich comes with its left arm, That's easy someone cut off the arm to make it Vecna. Totally something a DM would do.
@@vederianl9723 It's his severed hand, mate. Not the whole arm.
But at the same time Eddie Munson is crazy cool
Started in 1979, played every version but 4. I was an outcast at school. I did not fit in with anyone, but I did play Football. The people I played with, where also the outcasts. I did play with a a guy who was an ordained Baptist minister/Police Reserve, former military. I did have conversations with a few parents during Satanic Panic. One mother even claimed to have seen Satan. Her son ended up being a trouble youth who was arrested (he played a few times) OH, and I was also a metal head and Guitar player. I avoided drugs.
To be fair, the Hopper Soviet Prison-stuff did lead up to a pretty satisfying conclusion with Hopper as a true Slayer of Monsters, and I can't possibly not like that...
Personally, I hope there will be a continuation of using D&D villains. And I REALLY hope for a new introduction in next season: Tiamat. Just imagine Will's painting being a foreshadowing of a multi-headed dragon they have to battle...
The whole Russia plot wasn’t only a waste of time it also made no sense
The first time I ever played was 1991. Is that close enough to the 80's? But I was in the Army, and I just got to Korea. My roommate introduced me to the game my first night. I ended up playing the whole year I was there.
Eddie also plays Master of Puppets note perfect when it was only released a maximum of 4 days prior.
The Satanic Panic kept me away from D&D until the mid 90s. When I finally got to try it, I thought it wasn't great, but that was probably just the group dynamics. It wasn't until close to the release of 3.5 that I finally gave it another try and saw how much fun it could be.
Straight answer, the "Period" minis is relatively accurate, Nate! -- The Paladin Mini with the Sword and Tabard with the cross (like a Templar) was NO SHIT, the 1st miniature my DM gifted me to start my figure collection back in 1989.
: ) 51 yr old here, had been playing since early 82. I thought the show did a pretty good job with it. Sorry to hear you still encountered the 'Satanic' thing in the early 90s. Though I do remember seeing in the news book burnings of "Harry Potter books" in the late 90s so ouch (by then I had moved more into online games like Ultima Online, but it was really cool to see years later / I guess we call them the oughts? the Wizards of the Coast stores - I dd like perusing through the many books but my money had other priorities). It's been really great to see more people being able to enjoy the game through the decades. Back then it was basically that scene in E.T. (a 1982 film about an English as a 2nd language student and the host family ;) ) and the awesome cartoon series/and I guess related toys. (and of course the miniature catalogs if you wanted to buy direct from the manufacturers).
Recently I returned to school/university -right before the pandemic and it was awesome seeing D&D still being regularly played - and noticing as I'd walk pass the same faces that they were in a campaign. And actually encountering minor side drama of people (who were very smart / doing active research in labs) wondering how they can be friends with such and such DM, cuz they were DMing a game too. *smirk* It was cute. :D
And yes I of course remember the D&D hysteria but oddly enough I never got any direct backlash for it. And during middle school (83-85) in an actual Catholic private middle school in north Seattle they let us run D&D games in the school library during recess. I also noticed the comments of people getting 1e and 2e mixed up so I'm glad that has been pointed out and corrected in regards how 1e handled things via the tables charts. Yeah the dice. heh I remember the crayon days in the early 80s. I would hear through the grapevine of nicer dice being made available but honestly I don't remember what year/and I might have had actually seen them at hobby stores. But I only got dice when I needed them (and my money probably went to purchase those Steve Jackson games that were sold in those small pocket sized ziplock bags vs. getting more dice), and still have dice that I still keep in the tube it came in from the comic book store that I got in 95. Anyway thanks for making the video and have fun adventuring, creating, and exploring everyone. (and of course when you can and esp. if you have the patience - / I've had my share of ouch players but fortunately not that many / try to make it fun & hopefully interesting / organize esp. for those interested in trying it out) : )
At my school, in the 80's, only the band kids were playing D&D, and it was just like 5 of us in a school of 550. Western rural Virginia. I played sports but not the ones valued by high school society back then.
I find season 3 was the most realistic out of all the seasons for d&d so far. One person wants to play but the rest of the party is just too busy doing some other stuff.
Also I've seen people who tried to get into d&d after watching stranger things, and they often complain to me about how many rules there are. It's funny to see them struggle with that while I'm just reading faerun lore about its wars and historical events and such.
It's great that since the show started D+D has been part of it. I remember the whole "Satanic Panic" panic thing in the 80"s when Metal music and D+D were blamed for leading people to being murders and/or Satanists. If it didn't do that, then at minimum it would make you crazy! I remember thinking, wow are we back in the 50's or what, it's just a fun game.
There's only one evil game, and it's Monopoly. Monopoly destroys friendships
Gunna be honest; Erika's "Crit Hit" made me recoil.
I mean, who doesn't say "nat 20"??
Thank you for the videos and insight on all the D&D content you do. Stranger things re-kindled my spark for D&D and it’s so much more fun than I thought it would be. You’re amazing as always and keep up the awesome work 😊
Thanks for the shout out Nate! :)
All I know is I still have a pristine set of those same DM shields!
What i really love about this scene is that Eddie is already pictured as a creepy weirdo, agressive and jugmental, not hesitating to pressure Mike ans Dustin, especially unwelcoming of outsiders, overall he doesnt feel like he's a friendly guy to be around. But once he gets behind the dm screen he's dropping the act and is a great dm working alongside his players to create a great story and a great experience for all of them. It's a wonderful thing to show to people who want to start in D&D
That episode of Stranger Things along with the Roller Arena probably my favorite 80s nostalgia since it certainly was the 1980s along with mall scenes. One of my parent's friends son was like an older brother and about the main characters age in Stranger Things back then. I remember one of his friends had miniatures, magic kits, D&D books or just about everything D&D then. One day I went over with him to his friends where they had a D&D session. Me being the little brat (age 4) annoying the older kids eventually had the DM frustratingly tell me, "I'll turn you into a rabbit"! I remember I got so scared I ran out of the house and fell off the front porch almost breaking my arm, lol. That was my first experience with D&D in the early 1980s. I played the D&D themed RPG computer games in the 80s and 90s, but didn't play real D&D until the late 90s. From what I remember, it was mostly the metal heads that played it and yes they looked a lot like Eddie.
I felt it, felt it all!! Our former DM got this hyped up when we played, which definitely pumped the group.
I have also been in other groups, from taking the game way too seriously to in-game group fighting going out of game to just boring all around. It's different everywhere.
I played in the early 80s... my dand buddies were all in speech and debate and I was the lone football player, I feel like I was the odd man out... like Lucas... half nerd half sporto. I have some very detailed ral partha minis from back in the day (but yes, many of them were simple) and my dice, that I still have are just like you described - sharp edges and corners. I also remember my mom asking me to put away my dandd books when we were in front of certain family or guests because they would be sensitive or judgmental. I haven't played in years, but watching ST has me thinking about it. Cheers!
It did the scene justice, pretty good D&D scene. However, as you point out - - there are no indications on what the Rogue did during her turn. I will assume it was either some sort of poison dagger action, or shooting an arrow with incredible precision, or a sudden super stealth backstab on Vecna. As for the other characters, none of their actions are described.
The part I enjoyed the most is the description of the scene when the cultists are celebrating Vecna's arrival, along with the fallen Necromancer's description.
Well, Stranger Things is a fun show. However, the version they are showing is AD&D 1st Edition, not 5th. So I would suggest introducing players to OSRIC AD&D which is the modernized OGL version of AD&D .WHich you can get as a PDF or in print. And I agree D&D is more than combat but we want to see them portray role-playing.
Yeah D&D started as a nartive co-op wargame were you could roleplay. And the lack of it in the scene could be as simple as it's not their play style like the over animated reactions and DND and long dice throws are not mine.
For those interested in OSRIC, the PDF is completely free to download online. 👍
Same with Basic Fantasy RPG, which is based on Original D&D 😁
I was 14 in 1983 (the last year I played before I started again to teach my own kids in the mid 2000s) and our games were a lot like this at times. Candles, minis, acting out actions and attacks and so on. We had a lot of chill table time as well, but I can relate to the game the kids are playing. It was close enough and super fun/entertaining. Great content, easy sub!
Stranger Things and also other popular representations of D&D on Twitch and TH-cam really put a lot of pressure on GMs. I could never run a game like Eddie does, or Matt Mercer, and after every session I feel like my players are disappointed and unsatisfied with my GMing.
After a game they will say things like "I had fun" or "this was nice", but they have to, because if I won't run the game, noone will and there won't be a game at all. That is the burden of the Forever-GM.
Remember it is collaborative and they need to bring their own energy into the game. Do you have a character you play with them? If not, I think it will improve things (even if add more work) when you are part of their team and not just a face and voice behind the scene. Make sure to play that character as more a follower.
There is one thing you missed. You said that lore about Vecna was, at the time, limited to only information about the artifacts named after him, The Hand and Eye of Vecna, and yet Mike makes clear reference to Kas, the servant/bodyguard that betrayed Vecna and cut off these parts of him, saying that "(Vecna) was killed by Kas".
Interesting! I actually didn't catch the Kas reference in the show. I hear it now, btu at the time it sounded like "cat" to me. Thanks for pointing this out!
This one is a bit iffy, but also not totally out of the realm of possibility. Under the Sword of Kas entry in Eldritch Wizardry (1976):
"Another item connected with the legend of the lich Vecna is the Sword of Kas, his onetime bodyguard. . . Its powers are only dimly hinted at by legend, but Kas was said to be the mightiest swordsman of his age."
So, in mind it isn't much of a stretch at all to decide that Vecna was betrayed by his bodyguard, Kas, but that could be viewed as a stretch, sure.
@@WASD20 The information about Kas and Vecna is in the 1st Ed. DMG under the description of the 'Sword of Kas' artifact.
@@dmadcat73 Ah! Good to know. I do remember hearing that now, but had forgotten that there was any info about them published between 1976 and 1989.
It's worth noting that when Lady Apple Applejack is described, Erica says she uses daggers.
The scene with young James Franco from Freaks & Geeks is one of the best D&D scenes.
I have been a player since 1981 and I played in secret during the “satanic panic” from my parents. We had the fancy colorful plastic see thru dice that we have today.. I am 54 and I think ST’s accurately described the excitement of a typical big battle… however we did argue quite a bit about rules!
80s DnD was different than today's DnD.
This show got me involved in D&D. I started with the Stranger Things D&D set, that I got signed by Noah Schnapp, (Will) at a convention, gathered books, maps, and miniatures, including the same as the ones used in Stranger Things. I have a good idea on how to play. All that I still need are players. Still, I find it cool to have.
when my group and i started playing DND, i was chosen as forever DM, it took 6 full months of weekly games before i was comfortable doing voices.
I was playing in 83 and I must say our games were a lot closer to the first season portrayal of DnD in stranger things . By high school in the mid 80's the group was pretty diverse in regards to we had the stereotypical geeks & creatives and well laid back sports Jocks like myself the DM. I may have been the captain of the school swim team and rugby team and the highest scorer of the water polo team , but I was down to put on a silly voice and portray the sneaky goblin or the pompous town mayor .
First, I would like to say great video I loved it. I think that the show Stranger Things represented playing D&D well for a TV audience getting the point across. I think if it was a tutorial on how to actually play the game it would be another TH-cam channel. As for the gaming set up, I think a game mat was pretty new for that time. My friends and I had graph paper until I guess 1990 or so, and those metal minis. I love the DM screen; I still have mine in good condition.
As for me growing up in the 80's, my friends really two camps the nerds, and the jocks. With that being said I feel like I can relate with the character, Lucas Sinclair to a point. I never left the nerd crowd. And yes, talking about D&D around girls in those days could make you a social pariah.
In my opinion we are enjoying the heyday of D&D right now. Not just in the products available, but the acceptance of the game socially, the ability to reach out and meet new players and DM's in order to play a game (In person or online). The future looks bright ahead, so it might get even better.
When I played back as a kid only the so called outcasts (the nerds, the stoners, the freaks, etc) played. While it is well received today to play, during this time it universally wasn't.
Played in the 80s after school care. We mostly had an English teacher who DM and she was great she also taught us a lot about creative writing and brainstorming techniques I still prefer ADnD1e but not many people do. I run a Dark Souls 5e game
Sports movies don't get the real feel either. American football with all its breaks. Normal football with 90 minutes still 0-0. Military movies with the hours of briefings and "downtime". It comes with trying to squeeze in alot of content in a short period. Never mind in a series. Great video! Some food for thought.
Good point! The audience isn't there to learn about the sport (probably) so much as to enjoy a good story. The same is true here.
Yes I remember back in the 80s dnd was the scapegoat for suicides and other crazy events. But moving forward, when me and my friends played we were the NERDS, DORKS. But that didn't stop us from playing. To this day my mum still has a picture of us playing out on the back porch. The memories is what is left as most of us are long gone....We are now in our fifties. But to do it all over again with those friends I would. Times have changed and so have the rules. It would be neat to see how it would look now as to back in the 80s.
When I started playing in 1976, our group included HS students and (mostly enlisted) soldiers and airmen. (We were playing in a group of military dependents and military personnel in West Germany at the time.)
I didn't notice any real difference between the people playing wargames (with or without miniatures) and the people playing RPGs, though of course some people preferred one or the other. The Venn diagrams shared a lot of area.
In Brazil we have "Ordem Paranormal [Paranormal Order(?)], that is a stream made by a youtuber called Cellbit. It's very well produced, with a software to emulate a 3D map, original soundtrack, in a Studio and sometimes the players cosplay.
And all i see is kids wanting tô play RPG, but procrastinating, because "it's never gonna be so cool as" Stranger Things or Ordem Paranormal.
Once I was in a geek event and some people (dressed with the Hellfire Club shirt), instead of stay and play rpg for the first time with their friends, wanted to come back home to watch the Cellbit's RPG. While I was activelly inviting them to play Ordem Paranormal, Dungeons and Dragons or systems that are easier to learn, like Lasers & Feelings.
The first time I played D&D was the last week of 5th grade (1984). The teacher allowed us to play but with a watchful eye as to make sure there were no demonic worshiping going on. That got me hooked, I was drawn into this new magical world that allowed us to create our own story as opposed to being stuck with a video game narrative or movie or novel plot that just ends. My parents got me the AD&D beginners kit for my 12th birthday that Halloween and I started playing. The only problem was finding kids interested whose parents would allow them to play. Also, I modified the rules as the DM to make it more fun for lesser intelligent kids playing as well as some younger kids who wanted to play. I created a campaign called the Necromancer's plague over the evergreen forest. The evergreen forest was the nickname we called the woods on the edge of our neighborhood where we would explore. The main plot of the campaign was a growing darkness was creeping into the evergreen forest slowly killing it from the west on the shores of the golden lake (Lake Allatoona near our neighborhood). The party was asked by the townsfolk elders on the eastern edge of the forest to investigate, confirm and possibly kill whatever was causing the darkness. They encountered all kinds of creatures I pulled form DnD and Middle Earth. The campaign was more about story telling than getting bogged down with what the rulebook said. I would just create the narrative on the fly if I wasn't sure what the actual D&D rules were. That was the best campaign I ever did; it was my story and my friends in the neighborhood all played along.
I'm 51 years old now, my parents still live in the same house, I often think about this campaign as I drive through the streets of my childhood home and see the trails that bleed into the woods on the western edges of the neighborhood.
Regarding Stranger Things, Season 4 really hit home with me, specifically Eddie Munson's character. I can't explain why, just who he was, I vividly remember older kids at the time who fit his character on the show. I read the book they wrote for him after season 4, The flight of Icarus which dives more into his story set 2 years prior. It really took me back to my childhood. I loved how ST incorporated DnD in the show, especially in the opening scene of season 1 when the 4 kids are playing downstairs in the Mike's basement.
I’m a kid, and I DM with a pretty similar energy level as the dm in the show. Kids have a lot of energy.
Started playing AD&D mid 80s... the big bad guy for us was Asmodeus back then. We played with all the classics, the deck of many things, the sword of Kas, the axe of the Dwarfish Lord's... etc... Our campaign took nearly 9 years.... We had to keep track of every xp, I was only 10th level when we stopped...
Hey Nate, yes i played in the eighties, 82-86 {College years) I remember when Mazes & Monsters came out . We thought it was silly. In Australia we never got the hysteria, but we heard about it. My fav part of ST is when Will donates his box set and it goes to Erica. The red box is exactly what we played from. Basic set.
Better check what kind of game the original dnd was. It was a dungeon crawl, not shopping session.
There were towns and shops! Read some of the earliest published adventures.
@@WASD20 sure there are towns and shops. But mostly used as a price lists and so on. Most games were revolving about dungeon delving and majority of groups were completely skipping it to just start at the entrance to the dungeon.
@@OtocinclusAffinis That may have been your experience, but you're the only one of 50,000 viewers to point this out. Still, I'm willing to listen to others with the same argument if anyone wants to chime in. :)
@@WASD20 amazing, 50 000, just wow. Maybe run an age survey for your viewers.
@@OtocinclusAffinis Yeah, would be interesting. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say 95 percent of my viewers were NOT playing in the 1980s.
I've played D&D a few times, and no one is a professional actor, so while we can get engrossed some of the fun is stuff like "I run away from the flirty barmaid" or "I dunno what to roll"
my mom and i were going through items from her parents home and found her dnd monster manual and dm guide published by TSR Games in 1979. its cool to see the manuals they would’ve been using technically
I once had my players "huddle" in the whispers channel of our discord channel without my presence. I gotta say it felt kind of scary to me XD.
lol. yeah, sounds a bit nerve-wracking.
@@WASD20 they ended up oneshotting a hag with a cantrip
We played DnD at after school care in the school hall, then the renovation part of the expanded library we had cool desks and chairs, but by today standards it was just meeting rooms standard office furniture. We had teachers who DM we played chess and Traveller and heaps of model making
new players prepare for the moment where everyone whips put their phone while the DM goes over their notes to figure out what they were going to say next
I started playing in '89, but I was 8 and how late my brothers would play would eventually put playing D&D on hold for 6 years.
AD&D started "breaking out" in 1983. My friends and I, who had been playing for about 3 years, were approached by all manner of other kids to play. The "cool" kids especially wanted to try it out. This changed, however, when the Satanic Panic caught mainstream success around 1985-1986. It didn't become "uncool" until the Panic took hold. Game playing and imagination appeals to everyone, but only a few people are willing to follow their passions in the face of social stigma.
I disagree. It was never a game "cool" kids wanted to play. They might have wanted to dabble in it to see what the game had to offer, but they dropped it the moment they recognized the majority of players were geeks and nerds. Blaming it on "The Satanic Panic," that was mostly an adult reaction, is one of those correlation doesn't mean causation things.
About the timeline issue of Vecna being a playable antagonist two years after the scene, I think Eddie home brewed it. That’s why the players are so surprised
“Vecna is dead! He was killed by Kas!” Which, at that point, was the canon truth.
I was 21 when I heard of D&D and played the summer of 2002. And wasn't until 40 until I picked it up again.
I was born in the 80's so I have zero reference for the decade outside of Mazes and Monsters. I had a theory that Nate was the kid in real life based on the movie Mazes and Monsters all grown up after he was found, but Nate debunks this theory in the video. My Mom also said "kids commit murder and suicide playing Dungeons and Dragons". So we went on to collect Magic Cards instead and then didn't find DnD until my 30's too !
Which D&D game is more fun to watch? Which is more realistic?
A) Stranger Things
B) Freaks and Geeks
C) The Big Bang Theory
D) Community
E) Mazes and Monsters
F) E. T.
Stranger Things is more fun to watch. E.T. is more realistic (although short).
Also the Dice they roll, were bonkers in some scenes
When Erica rolled her twenty, I told the tv "Now roll for damage"
My mom burned my friend's AD&D PHB. She claimed a fiery hand came out of the fire and tried to pull her in. That was problematic. Many harmless cassettes, albums, T-shirts, comic books, fantasy and sci-fi novels (and a few pornos) also saw their end on that pyre of wackadoodle nonsense. I literally had to hide D&D material under the house and put campaigns together at school or at friends' houses. I DM'd like that all through High School. D&D4Life. Still playing 40 years later. Take that, Mom! Still love ya.
I started playing D&D in the eary 80's when I was still a school kid. My first ever game was with one of my best friends from school and 3 Hells Angels who were several years older. My regular group was school friends who would generally be called "nerds" by today's standards however I am not sure that has anything to do with the game, just they were the kids I hung out with. I remember at the time games were very much like glorified board games and it took quite a long time to discover the real role-playing bits of games...
I played in middle school, early 80s. Our DM was the son of a pastor and was an arty, very smart kid. One player was another really smart kid, really into tech (now an automotive engineer). The other player and I were average students who played sports. The D&D scenes in the first season of Stranger Things really nailed it. I felt like I was watching our little group playing. Also remember the satanic panic era. Last week on a visit home, I found out that my mother had talked to one of the respected older people in our church about my D&D playing. Apparently he said no biggie because my mother never said anything about it to me.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Certainly nice that not all Christians lost their minds.