Breville / Sage Bambino Plus Review Part 6. Testing Dual Wall Baskets Vs Standard Baskets.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- In my original Sage/Breville Bambino Plus review video, • SageBambino Plus Revie... - I wasn't impressed with the dual wall baskets.
In this video, I'm giving a better explanation of dual walled vs standard baskets (as requested in the comments) and I'm doing a better test of dual walled baskets vs. standard baskets, using the exact same coffee.
By the way, if you're in the UK or Europe (including Ireland, Germany, France and most other countries in mainland Europe) see: coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-applian...
For the blog post review of the Sage Bambino Plus: coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-bambino...
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Ta
Kev
How about a video/test that actually tests these baskets in their intended environments? Single Wall baskets are supposed to be for Freshly Roasted Coffees is it not? So comparing double wall to single wall, while also using Freshly Roasted Coffees isn't comparing them as intended. How about comparing Single Wall vs Dual Wall on Coffee that you have ground yourself that is NOT Freshly Roasted? Let's say Roasted 6 months ago. How does the Single Wall perform then? Or In that case is the Dual Wall simply better?
@@TheRC2022Good idea 👍😀. Dual walled, pressurised baskets were actually designed to create a good looking shot of espresso with pre-ground, and with grinders not capable of grinding for espresso. They were first named 'perfect crema' baskets by Gaggia for that reason. So really, all taste comparisons of standard Vs pressurised are flawed when you look at it like that, as the original intention of dual walled baskets is concerned with the way the shot looks (crema) not the way it tastes. I think the test you've suggested is a good one, but really the only parameter that would be testing them as intended would be how the shot looks. I'd imagine 6 month old beans, for example, are going to taste similarly dull regardless of the baskets used, but via pressurised baskets the shot is likely to look better. Thanks for the idea, I'll add this to the schedule 🙂
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks, the new Bambino Plus I just bought has a book inside that literally says use single wall for 30 days or fresher roasts, and double wall for pre-ground and for older than 30 day roasted coffee (irrespective of who/when it was ground), so if shelling out quadruple or quintuple the price of freshly roasted coffee beans every 30 days isn't an option for some, and some have to rely on store bought from the grocer (which do not have a roasted date, but more so a best by date), it would appear that our only option at that point is Dual Wall basket (according to the official Breville/Sage guide included) - is this a Myth? I am still slowly working on dialing in my grinder (Smart Grinder Pro), and so far my espressos have been pretty disgusting, so wondering if changing to a single shot basket will help the taste (even though its not intended to be used with "older" beans) -- perhaps a video comparing the two in that scenario and any "Myth Busting" would be good? Thanks again for your insights!!
This is incredibly helpful for someone such as myself, I've only started getting into coffee brewing a few months back and I keep learning and hearing about new things now that I've decided to save up for a Bambino plus. It's awesome that you are able to show us a comparison! This is very understandable, even for someone as new to all this as me. Thank you!
The explanation of the baskets was very helpful, as today was my first try with the Bambino Plus. Turns out I used the dual wall basket with my freshly ground coffee -- and it was "ok". I also didn't realize the ability to manually brew by holding the button. Super cool guide and new sub!
I purchased the Bambino Plus and Smart Pro grinder, a couple of weeks ago, and I love them. The latte’ is delicious. Love these videos.
omg Kev thanks so much, I brought a SBE and have been using the dual walled 2 shot basket, with very poor results. Now I will experiment with the single wall and see how it goes, I ,do have the smart grinder pro and by the way, LOVE your videos, your an inspiration. Keep up the great work Kev :)
Thanks Delberth :-) let me know how you get on with the single walled baskets. Cheers.
I bought this little weapon last week as my own little office set up!! It's next to good company and paired with a Eureka atom grinder which is obviously a few price brackets above the Bambino but I was fortunate enough to have it as a spare home grinder so I thought why not. I've found that pared with good quality grinder, the pressurised baskets are actually pulling way better shots than I expected. Big Crema bombs are dropping out of this little gem!! I just wish it was spouted so you can sit two cups next to each other and split the shot. Steam pressure is good for a little micro machine (wet steam but that's expected at this price point). Pared with something like a baratza sette and you can't go wrong with the Bambino
love your work mate
Thanks :-)
I really appreciate you not slurping! Thank you
Thanks for video. Do you have a recommendation for the length of pre infusion when setting manually? Ie how long to hold button down for? Or does it depend on the coffee you're using.
Very nice mate appreciate the test as I have a bambino plus and I am using pre ground with a dual wall and the taste jjst isn’t right and I was thinking if I need a grinder and I have my answer :)
Hi there,great videos thanks. My question is would it help to grind the pre ground finer and dial in on the single wall basket if the pre ground is under extracting? Thx
G’day- Love this video series. Hoping you could help me solve an issue I’m having- and other viewers may also have. I’ve got the Bambino Plus with The pressurised baskets only. I’ve been gifted a huge bag of ground expensive quality coffee but it’s MUCH finer than I usually use. My normal recipe if 15g with a heavy tamp just chokes up the porterfilter. I don’t really want to waste the whole bag in experimentation, what do you suggest? My normal recipe was 15g grounds and 32g of finished volume in the cup. Let me know if you have any ideas? Lighter tamp? Less grounds? More water? Cheers
Hi, if using preground coffee ordered online as not using a grinder would you suggest using a standard or pressurised basket?
Help please. As I can get coffee ground at purchase, could you advise on grind size (how to specify?) to suit (a) single wall, and (b) dual wall? (I am getting a used bambino plus, which may not have both baskets). Thanks.
Great videos and channel. Subbed! 👌
Cheers :-)
Thanks for this video, I subscribed and appreciate what you do. As for my question, I am curious if you would still find a better taste with the single wall basket if you used the same manual grind size and everything else with both baskets, so that you'd really only compare one variable. Because if they did then taste exactly the same, that would only make the single wall more versatile.
If I use my Wilfa Svart aroma grinder (not quite fine enough for a single walled basket) and increased pre-infusion time before pulling a shot manually, would this achieve a better fuller flavour?
I just bought a new Bambino plus, and it came with only dual wall basket in Canada. I hope they start including standard baskets in here too.
Hi Kev thanks for the great videos, much appreciated! I actually found your channel after buying the sage barista express. A problem Im having is that if I use the single wall bucket the espresso starts pouring out almost immediately even before it ramps up to full pressure. Dialing in, amount or tamping don't seem to help. By using the dual wall this problem is avoided but I feel like I'm cheating a bit that way. I've seenother people complaining about this but without really finding a solution. Is it something with the machine or am I doing something wrong? What do you think? Thanks!
Hi Stijn, sorry for the delayed reply. Hmm - what grinder are you using? Cheers, Kev.
This video was incredibly helpful! I recently came home with some ground coffee that I picked up from a nearby coffee shop. It seems that I ended up with a grind that is too fine as I've got exactly what happens at 8:40 when the machine is choking. Would you have any solution to this? Could I try not tamping down so hard or mixing it with some coarser grinds?
Hi Joe. You using standard basket or dual walled? If it's choking the machine, you'll need a coarser grind, reducing the tamping pressure isn't going to make a massive difference. Also are you using the razor tool to ensure the correct dose? I find you need to get the dose bang on in the sage machines, and the razor tool is the best way to do that. Cheers.
What setting number are you using on your grinder??
I have the same grinder and trying to dial in. Thanks
Hi Kev! :) I recently bought the Bambino along with the Sage pro grind off ebay, for my first attempt at making my own espresso but have been really struggling to dial in decent espresso and am going through beans at a rate of knots which is expensive!
Up until now, I've been using the dual-wall pressurised double shot basket with fresh grinds, but am going to change to the single wall double basket on your recommendation.
Just wondered what settings (grind size / grind time / length of extraction time) you would recommend using for both these two machines in tandem to pull a good double shot, using a light/medium roast?
(I also notice the previous user has altered the burr grinder to 10, on its internal setting - guessing i should put this back to the middle at 5 or 6?)
Hi Graham :-), yeah dialling in is a bit of a learning curve. I'd recommend James Hoffmans series: th-cam.com/video/lFwJF-_SUr0/w-d-xo.html&vl=en-GB
Do you know how long the previous user had used it for before adjusting? This is meant to be used over time as the burrs wear, so if they've changed it straight off the bat and haven't ground much in it, then yeah you may want to change it back. I've been using mine for 4 years, it's ground a serious amount of coffee, and I've had no reason yet to adjust it.
I usually start out at about grind size 14 and go from there, but that'll be different for you if the burrs have been adjusted of course.
I favour a 1:2 ratio, in 28-32 seconds, so from 19g - 38g in 30 seconds ish.
Just remember that you need to purge when dialling in, I think this is something many miss.
So, when you're grinding for the first time each morning, you need to waste a few g of beans before you start, and the same each time you change the grind size when dialing in. This is due to exchanged retention, meaning that a small amount of coffee from the last time you ground will end up in your basket the next time you grind - which is fine if it's fresh and the same grind size, but if you've adjusted the grind or if the last time you ground was several hours ago, you need to purge some beans through the grinder to get rid of the retained grinds.
Cheers
Excellent video
Hi Kev, thanks for all the videos on the Bambino Plus. I got mine from AO this week and sadly it only has the dual-wall baskets with it, so I'm really disappointed.
Not getting a response from Sage on how to get hold of the single wall baskets so I'm tempted to return it.
Do you by any chance have a contact at Sage that you could find out when they may be available?
I spoke to Sage yesterday and they said they're not expecting any single wall baskets in stock until August at the earliest. The rep said even he can't believe it's going to take so long and he doesn't know why.
Sorry I missed your comment. Did you manage to get hold of standard baskets in the end? cheers.
@@Coffee_Kev I'm in the same boat, and had same bad experience with SAGE communication. Also same as Tim Durden have dual-wall basket only - it would be nice to get standard one. Any idea if SAGE will be able to provide them (is stock going to be refilled), would like to get original part. Thanks
@@andrym2004 I spoke to Sage, they do get them in apparently but they sell out fast, so if you tick the box to be notified when back in stock, Sage say you'll get an automated reply when they have them in stock again. Cheers.
@@andrym2004 I gave up and got one from Germany, overpriced but had no option. Just search the model number SP0001520 in ebay.
I contacted Breville re my Bambino Plus recent purchase, which only came with dual walled baskets - and while I was initially happy to see an Aussie company doing good things, their response was woeful. Impossible to obtain one, don't sell one, can't order from the UK store - nothing can be done for me to get a single walled basket for the Bambino Plus. What a shame!
have found your demos really useful
I can't seem to understand or rectify that the steam buttons flash after I've steamed milk .
plus the milk isn't now as frothy as it was
any ideas ?
Hi Elizabeth. Thanks :-). Are you steaming manually, or auto? Are you not pushing the steam wand back into position? The lights will flash at you to prompt you to push the steam wand back, and at that point it will auto purge the wand.
If you're steaming on auto and milk isn't as doing the same as it used to on the same setting, a few tips:
1: Ensure the temp sensor and the base of the jug are both dry before you steam.
2: Ensure you're using the same amount of milk each time.
3: Ensure the jug is properly touching the temp sensor.
4: If all the above are OK and you're still not happy with the results, take off the tip, ensure holes are unblocked, and give it a soak. th-cam.com/video/WMnYMjJWKRU/w-d-xo.html
Cheers :-)
Massive fan of the Bambino Videos Ukcoffeeblog. I’ve got a quick question, so I recently purchased the bambino (awaiting arrival) and it comes with both basket types. I currently have a subscription to a coffee company bringing ‘Fine’ preground coffee suitable for espresso machines. I am maxed out on cash to buy a grinder at the moment (will in future) but was wondering this: You obviously thought non pressurised baskets where the ticket with the grinder but would a fine preground consistency with the non pressurised baskets maybe give a better result then the dual wall? I suppose your answer would be trial and error but would have loved to see you use your grind and the preground on the same basket and taste test the difference or flow rate regarding this blue box grind! Thank you! Health to drink!
Hi Dean. Cheers 👍😃. Well, I found the taste was better with same coffee freshly ground, but it was still drinkable pre-ground via dual wall, not awful, I just preferred it freshly ground. Keep in mind that to achieve that better tasting cup you not only need to invest in a grinder, but you also need to invest (time and money) in wasting coffee to dial in - and some people may choose to take the not quite as perfect cup. It also depends on palate, my palate has become more sensitive over past few years. I'm not sure I'd have been able to notice the difference as much when I got started.
It's quite possible that there are some firms grinding pre ground finer, if you give me the details of the subscription I'll get hold of some and let you know what I think.
Cheers
ukcoffeeblog amazing, yeah very interested on seeing a fine preground and wholebean bought and used on a non pressurised basket, to see the drip difference and how you find the taste. The company is called Pact which do multiple grinds suited for all brewing types, check it out and would love to hear back
Sorry, I might be getting this wrong but are you using the same coffee but you used pre-ground for the double wall and you grinded fresh beans for the single? Is that really a fair comparison though?
Double wall is for pre ground coffee, which is relatively coarse. When you grind your own beans you get the grind perfect for single wall, which is way superior. It also makes real crema, whereas double wall is very different.
Hi there, I just got this machine a few weeks ago and like you say...with pre ground theres just something off. Do you recommend where to buy a standard basket that fits this portafilter? Im struggling to find one. Cheers!
Hi Jonny, thanks for the message. Usually you can get them directly from Sage/Breville, but it looks like they're out of stock at the moment. May be worth emailing them to ask them to let you know when they're back in stock.
I was told not before the start of June, for the 2 Cup basket when I spoke to them last week.... Hoping that its very early June!
Ok thanks guys!!
Hi which single wall basket did you use? I tried looking for ims or vst baskets but I don't think they make 54mm baskets.
Cremacoffeepro sells a 54mm.
However I'm in the U.S. so if you're somewhere else the shipping may be expensive.
Hey Kev, thanks for the reviews. Do you think the quality of the espresso if dialled in correctly is as good as your old faithful Gaggia classic?
Yeah, they're chalk and cheese in terms of the type of machine, but both capable of great espresso. I will do a vs video as soon as I've managed to get my hands on a 2019 classic, but the main pros for the Bambino are the clever features such as fast ready time, almost instant steam, very simple pre infusion, also great temp stability due to PID. The main pros for the Gaggia Classic for me are reliability & longevity, these are machines with standard parts that are simple to maintain and can be used for several years or even decades with good maintenance. My classic is 2003 and it's still going strong.
@@Coffee_Kev the main attraction for me to the Sage over the Gaggia is a simplification of the process. I can imagine that the Sage bambino together with a Niche pro grinder (and a coffee distributor tool) would allow a simple workflow that gives consistent results while being compact and less messy than some other solutions. If I'd lived alone I would probably get the Classic Pro but to share it with my missus I am looking for the simplest solution to replace the bean-to-cup machine (De'longhi Magnifica Esam 4200) that we had for a year on your recommendation (great advice. Cheers for that!! We never regretted it). After we had this intro to good coffee and a subscription to one of the UK coffee roaster (we both really enjoy it) I'd like to upgrade to the next level while keeping the workflow relatively simple.
@@thomasb4717 I think that makes sense. As an upgrade to the bean to cup machine, while still being a simple enough process for someone else in the household to use who's not necessarily on the same home barista journey, I think the Bambino is a good choice.
One thing I'd recommend is upgrading the portafilter to the one from the Barista Pro, or this bottomless portafilter www.cremacoffeepro.com/products/54mm-bottomless-portafilter. I'm not a huge fan of the portafilter that comes with the Bambino.
You'll have a very future proof grinder there too with the Niche Zero, if you do upgrade in the future to a heat exchanger machine or dual boiler, you won't have to upgrade the grinder.
Cheers :-)
Kev
ukcoffeeblog thanks for the great advice Kev! Keep up the good work. 👍👍
@@thomasb4717 Cheers :-)
Great videos on this machine. Not sure if you've had any experience using the Delonghi Dedica but just wondered if you think the Bambino is worth parting with the extra cash ?
The Bambino Plus would definitely be a way better choice than the Dedica. For more see: coffeeblog.co.uk/best-home-espresso-machines.
If you don't have the cash, another option would be a used Gaggia Classic, there are a few on eBay at the moment: coffeeblog.co.uk/ugc just make sure it's not the 2015 model, and if you can find one pre 2009, even better.
Gaggia Classic and Sage Bambino Plus are chalk and cheese, but if you're looking for a home barista machine on a budget, a used GC would be my first thought - as it's what I started out with, along with a smart grinder pro. For grinders see coffeeblog.co.uk/grinders
@@Coffee_Kev nice one, thanks for the detailed reply.
How to know gaggia classic model ?
@@mmortada1978 it should have a sticker on with a date, you should be able to tell which model it is from the date it was made. It may have a model number on the sticker too if it's a newer model.
@@Coffee_Kev you forgeting the standard Bambino. Still better than the dedica
I bought the Bambino Plus, then a bottomless portafilter with a modified unpressurised IMS basket. Game changer, even with shoddy tamping I can get decent results.
Cheers for that. Is this the bottomless pf you got? www.cremacoffeepro.com/products/54mm-bottomless-portafilter - the IMS basket, did you get the one for the la Spaziale & modify the lip? Easy to do? Cheers
@@Coffee_Kev it's similar to the one in the link but I think it's actually a mod, it looks like a Dual Temp Pro portafilter that has been drilled through using a hole saw to make it bottomless, the guy I bought it from said he got it done in a metal shop in London. Same as the basket, it's lip has been filed down a little. It works great though if you can find a metal work shop to do that bit for you. Paired with a Lido ET grinder it's very forgiving, no channelling. I know theres a metal works in Wembley that do the mods for £20, I can get the name of them from a forum I read it on if needed.
Hii.Can I got a link for bottomless portafilter and baskets single one double for it
Hi. Just got a bambino plus. I’m not sure it’s working correctly. A double shot is about 20ml max through any of the baskets with or without any coffee. And lots of water sits in the basket. Is this normal please?
Hi Mark, have you tried resetting the shot buttons? Just press and hold both the shot buttons together until they flash, then press the button you're wanting to re-set, press it again when you've got the required amount, it'll re-set. Ta, Kev
I just purchased the Bambino. I have a non pressurized standard basket coming as well. Do I need a different portafilter though? The original portafilter is made for pressurized baskets. I’m trying to find a portafilter with double spouts like the ones that come with the more expensive breville/sage machines. I can’t find them anywhere but I found a lot of bottomless portafilters. I know there’s a debate between bottomless and spouted but what if I can’t find the double spouted anywhere. Should I just get the bottomless so I can use the standard baskets?
If using a non pressurized basket. Does it make a difference when using the stock portafilter compared to an upgraded on like this? www.breville.com/us/en/parts-accessories/parts/sp0027237.html
Hi
Just ordered the Bambino Plus and it's my first espressomachine that isn't fully automatic. Just wondering, what do I need to use non pressurized filter? Is it enough to order a single wall filter?
Hi Christian,
Non pressurised = Single wall and pressurised =Dual wall.
Cheers
Kev
what about grinding your own and using the pressurized basket? What setting would you use and what's the result?
see th-cam.com/video/xJBft9azgSg/w-d-xo.html. The setting will depend on your grinder, will need to experiment a bit, if you choke the machine (only dripping) go more coarse.
Re the result, the grind itself doesn't make a difference really, with pressurized baskets. The main difference is freshly ground beans vs pre-ground beans, and the difference there will depend on how freshly roasted they are.
If you were to take two bags of beans, grind one, leave the other wholebean, bag them up and open them both at the same time further down the line, I'd expect the freshly ground beans to taste fresher (at least up to a point) than the pre-ground beans, as so much more surface area of the bean is exposed to the coffee as soon as the beans are ground. Cheers, Kev.
Is the 'razor' tool worthwhile? Benefit to the brew / machine? to fill to 'the right' level?
Yeah definitely Dave, helps dosing the right amount into the basket and also helps to ensure level surface. I've tried it without the razor on the Bambino and Barista Express and the razor tool definitely helps.
Can we change the brew temp, I saw you mentioned a PID so I’m confused :)
Hi 😃. The pre-set brew temp is controlled with a pid for temperature stability, but the brew temp isn't adjustable on the Bambino plus. Cheers
Hi there, please please can you help? When aiming for 38g in 28-32 seconds, do we count down from the moment we click the button, or from the moment the machine starts rumbling? Thanks so much!
Hi Tom,
I say to count a second after the button is pressed,
Cheers
Kev
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks so much! My sage bambino takes around 7 seconds to start rumbling (the button just flashes for around 7 secs when I click it). So you think begin counting 1 second after my click?
Hey Kev, just checking my comment above is ok? Really appreciate it!
Thank you for the review and the test
But to compare the different between the two baskets you should use freshly ground coffee for both and the pre-ground coffee for both and then taste them
And the result should answers these question
Is the taste differ if you use the same amount of freshly ground coffee and same water volume and tempreture in pressureized and non pressuresized baskets?
Which one have more creama?
Which one better for freshly ground coffee beans?
Is the taste differ if you use the same amount of pre-ground coffee and same water volume and tempreture in pressureized and non pressuresized basket?
Which one have more creama?
Which one better for pre-ground coffee beans?
Regards,
Hadi
Hi Hadi. See th-cam.com/video/xJBft9azgSg/w-d-xo.html I first of all tried the same coffee (same everything) freshly ground via both baskets, and then exactly same coffee pre ground via both baskets.
Freshly ground: crema about the same on both, but tasted slightly better via standard single walled, standard basket.
Pre ground: crema way better via dual walled, pressurised basket, and taste marginally better via dual walled.
So I concluded that pressured baskets make a lot more difference visually, I.e in making the espresso look the part with thick crema. But as this crema isn't the usual accompaniment of high quality freshly roasted coffee beans being perfectly extracted - instead its created synthetically, by forcing the coffee through a tiny hole - pressured baskets make pre ground coffee perform only slightly better than they would in a standard basket when it comes to taste, but make a big difference visually.
I actually have more respect for pressured baskets after this test. I wouldnt try to use pre ground coffee for espresso, I think if you want home espresso you need a grinder. But with a grinder, if you're in a rush, and you dont have time to dial in, or if you're drinking flat whites or cappuccinos etc and decide that it's not worth the investment in time and wasted beans to dial in each time for a marginally better taste once diluted with milk, then I do think for this purpose the dual walled baskets are a valid option. I never use them, I enjoy getting dialed in, I always use standard baskets, but many people just want a quick result and aren't fussed about perfection, and for these people I'd say as long as you grind your own, the dual walled baskets are fine.
Cheers
@@Coffee_Kev I just saw the video . Thank you for your review and tests they are great 👍
I don't seem to get any crema using the single wall basket?
Just ordered the bambino, 'upgrading' from a duo temp pro. Cheers
👍👍What did you think of the duo temp pro?
@@Coffee_Kev It's great, it's been 3 years. Other than swapping a pump and gasket, it is very easy to maintenance. But lately it has stopped giving enough steaming power so I decided to get the bambino. Hopefully the thermojet on bambino is better.
@@SteveLi123 You'll certainly find the steam is ready quicker, and it's quicker to go from steam to espresso and vice versa. It'll be interesting to hear whether you find the steam power is better on the Bambino than the DTP. I'm really impressed with the steaming on the Bambino, especially steaming milk manually.
Can't you adjust the tamp on the pre ground to reduced the under extraction, seeing that's the only alternative available... ?
Hi Pip,
With pressurized baskets and pre-ground, there's really nothing you can do to prevent the under extraction. The basket is in control .
Ta
Kev
@@Coffee_Kev What about adjusting the dose ?
I found I could make decent espresso with the dual wall with about 15-20 sec extractions. With single wall it's considerably better when dialed in but more finicky about grind. I rarely made undrinkable with dual wall but frequently did while dialing in the single wall.
100% agreed.. with fresh beans and grinding before brew I found the dual wall baskets to be more consistent and no major changes required if measured by volume. I normally drink lattes and with milk I know I can make a better drink with the standard basket if dialed in properly but with the change in ambient temperature and beans during the day is just tedious
Yeah, dialing in with standard baskets is definitely more of a challenge. This video is a comparison of using pre-ground with dual walled vs using freshly ground vs the standard baskets, basically I wanted to see if dual walled baskets really make it possible to get good results with pre-ground. As I said in the video, the espresso via pre-ground and dual walled baskets wasn't awful, but the dialled in espresso via the standard baskets was definitely better.
I'll do another video comparing dialling in with the standard baskets vs dual walled baskets.
Cheers
@@alarcilam You make a good point. When making milkies, is the investment in beans required to dial in properly vs using freshly ground via the dual walled baskets, worth it in terms of the resulting latte/flat white etc., I'll do another video attempting to answer this question. Cheers
@@Coffee_Kev legend...
Hi Craig, I assume that you mentioned about the 15-20 seconds which refers to the actual brewing time (excluding the pre-infusion time) with your pressurized basket, correct?
Although some experts said pressurized basket has least significant impact on grind size and tamping pressure, but I am still way far from the standard brew ratio of 1:2 over 25-30 seconds brew time. That is why I have to invest on a better grinder (my current one is Cuisinart DBM-8) and a non-pressurized basket and a bottomless portafilter in order to achieve a longer shots. I am expecting my new grinder will be here sometime this week.
Thanks for this helpful video! I guess this was more of a comparison of pre-ground vs grind yourself for dual walled baskets, is that right? It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on pre-ground dual-wall vs pre-ground single wall. I only have the dual wall at the moment and am suffering with underextraction no matter what I do!
Thanks!
Hi Peter, yeah I was testing to see whether freshly ground coffee via standard baskets was noticeably better tasting than pre-ground via dual walled, exact same coffee. Yeah I'll do another video on pre-ground via both types of basket. Cheers
ukcoffeeblog your thoughts on preground and single wall would be great. Your a top chap.
Hey Kev.. I have had multiple espresso machines.. Delonghi dedica (always bitter and super hot) breville duo temp pro (always sour and cold) high end VBM domobar (awesome if you know how to temp surf) but for any reason I find this bambino very temperature stable (always right on 93c no sour no bitter when dialed in). Is it my impression or breville really nailed it with the new thermojet+PID
Sorry for the delayed reply, for some reason a load of comments were hidden to me that have just popped up, weird. Really interesting that, cheers.
That's cool, I didn't know the new stock come with the standard baskets. That's excellent.
Indeed, I'm waiting them to come into stock @ sage as I got an old stock unit in late Feb... Struggling with my grinder and pressurised baskets...
@@simonmckenna3075 I'm just on the edge of ordering everything. With a scale and grinder all together, I'm looking at about €700. Justifying it at the moment 😊
@@johnjames01 what scales & grinder you going for?
@@Coffee_Kev I looked at the dose control pro but I prefer the Smart Grinder Pro I think. In terms of scales then, I want the Brewista Smart Scale II. Surprised it's that expensive for the scales but I guess you do get what you pay for 😊
@@johnjames01 Yeah SGP is good, you seen my review? www.coffeeblog.co.uk/sgp The Brewista is actually one of the lowest cost decent scales for espresso, Acaia Pearl for instance is about £150, and the Lunar about £200. There are cheaper scales, but the main issue I've found with them is slow response time, AKA lag, the response time is way better on the Brewista than on the cheaper scales I've tried using previously. Accuracy is better on the Brewista too vs the cheaper ones I've tried. From what I can tell, the Acaia scales and other similarly pricey scales are better for both response time and accuracy, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to spend £150-£300 on scales! ;-).
Did you take out the plastic insert when using the un-pressurized basket? Or does that not matter?
I didn't take that out. Many people do and most report that it makes no difference to the shot. Cheers.
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks for the answer. I've got this machine well over 2 weeks ago and are very happy about it. Thing is I want to use the non-pressurized, but even though I hit an extraction at around 30 sec for 60 ml, I still get a very sour shot. I can't seem to figure out why.
Took mine out and then put it back. The portafilter wanted to drain oddly without it. Not a functional issue - just aesthetic to me.
@@craigtheheathen Cheers Craig.
You mean you're getting a sour shot via standard basket or dual walled? Are you warming up the portafilter first by running a shot or two of water through it before pulling your first shot? Are you tamping and then using the razor tool? Cheers
How to program a pre-infusion? In my Bambino I does not work.
You can't program the auto pre-infusion that you get with the volumetric buttons, it's set to 7 or 8 seconds. You can do it manually by pressing and holding the shot button, pre-infusion will stop when you take your finger off the button, and you then stop the shot by pressing the button again. The max pre-infusion manually is about 10 seconds. Cheers
@@Coffee_Kev thx
@@makgajwerek No worries :-)
You should test pre-ground and self ground coffee out of the standard basket, that would be a better test.
th-cam.com/video/xJBft9azgSg/w-d-xo.html
Where can I buy standard 54mm basket for Bambino Plus?
Hi Tetiana, if they're in stock (they keep selling out) you can get them from the Sage Appliances, or Breville website, depending on where you're based. Cheers.
@@Coffee_Kev thanks a lot for the reply! I live in Poland, and sadly www.sageappliances.com doesn't deliver to Poland. I really like this espresso machine, but it seems that outside the UK it only comes with dual wall baskets, and I can't find where to buy regular baskets...
@@tetianakhotiaintseva562 email me - I'll get you one & post it to you. kev@coffeeblog.co.uk Cheers.
I use Taylors dark roast whole bean. My sage grind is set to 9.4 -13 flow is variable.e between slow to OK but never good. This morning settings for grind have been set to 9.4- 14 flow is better however 1st try taste not so good. Next try I will up grind time to 9.6. -14. Hey ho etc. I use standard basket.
Hi David, I'd also try using freshly roasted beans, try an espresso roast from a small batch roaster with a roast date within the last few weeks, and see what you think. Cheers :-), Kev.
Hi there. Great video, but I'm a bit confused. Is this a comparison of single vs. dual walled baskets or of pre-ground versus freshly ground beans? If you've put one grind style of coffee (say pre-ground) into one type of basket, and another type of coffee (freshly ground) into a different type of basket, then the taste test comparison would be confounded. Sorry if I'm missing something! All best.
Hi Aaron. It's meant as a comparison of standard baskets with freshly ground beans vs dual walled baskets with pre-ground beans. The question I'm wanting to answer, is do dual walled baskets make it possible to get good results without a grinder?
I'm using the exact same coffee beans, from the same roaster, one bag pre-ground and one bag wholebean, to see if I can get close to the same results with pre-ground via the dual walled baskets with the exact same coffee, as I can get via grinding the same beans myself.
In the original review video I said I didn't feel that the dual walled baskets enabled me to get anywhere near similar results vs using freshly ground beans and standard baskets. This is meant as a more fair test, by using the exact same coffee beans both whole bean and pre-ground, and using a darker roast bean that should work better pre-ground.
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks so much for taking the time to reply! I appreciate that and your videos. I understand what you're saying, so hope you want mind the "critique" (it's all out of interest and curiosity). The comparison is an interesting one, but given that freshly ground coffee and single walled baskets are each expected to produce a better result, that sets a pretty high bar against which to compare to a dual walled basket and pre-ground beans, both of which are thought to be inferior. In other words, in finding out that the pre-ground in the dual walled basket doesn't taste as good, it's not clear if that's because it was pre-ground coffee or because of the dual walled basket. But I do see that you did that video before, just with a different roast and all freshly ground. Thanks again for the reply! Keep making great videos!
Aaron Norton but really preground (or less finely ground) coffee is the only reason to have/use double wall. My double wall hasn’t been used since I got a better grinder.
@@aaronnorton7131 Cheers Aaron. Don't mind the critique at all :-). Yup, the result isn't a huge surprise, but I just wanted to do a more fair test than I did in the first video. As I said in the video, it's not awful, it's drinkable, but the same coffee freshly ground via standard baskets definitely better, no real surprise.
I will do another video testing freshly ground coffee with both dual wall and single wall baskets to see if the investment in wasted coffee (the coffee that's wasted when dialing in) via standard baskets is worth it vs not needing to dial in to the same degree with dual wall baskets.
Cheers
@@Coffee_Kev You're awesome. Keep on keepin' on and thanks again for the reply:)
dual wall works well with decaffeinated beans which seem to be a darker roast.
And set the breville smart pro at 20. With the same blend for the single wall start at 7 for a dark roast.
There seems to be a lot of unqualified statements in this review and comments. The single wall is more difficult to get any crema if it's an old roast. Sorry Kevin this is a really unfair comparison . I've been using both baskets with a variety of coffees mainly roasted within the month and ground just prior to use and if you get the grind right you get good coffees. If anything the dual walls produce more crema if that's what one likes.
Maybe you can rename your video to "sage/breville" to reach more audience
Thanks, done :-) I usually do that but missed it on this vid, thanks :-)
How to order different baskets and bottomless portafilter
Suggest searching for aftermarket portafilters that are made for the Breville 54mm. 'Crema' makes one that's open bottom.
@@j.s.3414
Yeah thanks already purchased one from crema
Sage definitely hasn't updated their stock...just bought a new Bambino Plus that only came with dual wall basket.
Same here.
Have you tried using dual walled with the coffee you grinded?
I would interested in that too... It would be a better and fair comparison with standard basket
Yeah, in this video, first I try using coffee I've ground - with both baskets - and then I use pre-ground, in both baskets: th-cam.com/video/ipv_0xLofyY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/ipv_0xLofyY/w-d-xo.html
You kept mentioning the razor tool but did not show how to use it 🤔
Thanks, you're right - I think I have done in other videos, but now I come to think of it I can't remember ;-). I'll do this, cheers.
Can I suggest you grind your own coffee and use pressurised baskets, you will find there are very little difference if any at all.
Hi Yang. Yes I've tried that, and it depends what you mean. If you grind coffee fresh, using a grinder which isn't great, which isn't really capable of grinding fine enough, then you're unlikely to notice much difference in pressurised vs non pressurised. In fact this coffee may even taste better via pressured baskets than via standard baskets. If on the other hand you have a capable espresso grinder, and you invest the time (and coffee) to dial in, to get the grind size perfect, and if you've invested the time to develop some home barista skills, then in this case its likely, in my humble opinion, that you'll have the potential to produce a noticeably better quality shot than with the pressured baskets. Cheers, Kev.
@@Coffee_Kevis your Sage grinder considered capable? I use the same setup, but I tend to use a much more forgiving bean from a local roster in Melbourne, maybe that's the difference?
@@Yyxqq123 Yes the smart grinder pro is capable for espresso, and in my opinion is a good pairing for the Bambino.
I get a better crema than that in pressurized
Excellent video
Thanks Jeff,
Really appreciate your feedback.
Cheers
Kev